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Revision as of 20:06, 11 February 2021

Wright Flyer image

The colorized Wright Flyer image is really nice, thanks for sharing an interesting work of art. It makes the scene real and communicates well to the viewer. It should stay on both articles, but not as lead image (that's stretching the concept of using colorizations a bit too much). Good work! Randy Kryn (talk) 12:22, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

First Flight, In Color! barnstar

	Best Historical Photo Colorized Image
	Your expertise in providing new images from old benefits the encyclopedia, and this one is really nice. Thank you. Randy Kryn (talk) 22:58, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

THANKS Randy. This is the greatest award I have received in my entire life.
If I were to win the lottery, on my death bed I will think of this. Not a care at all about material things which have slipped through my fingers. --Wright Stuf (talk) 01:04, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

Well deserved and accurate. Can't think of any other black and white photo which, if finely colored, would give such an interesting and "you are there" presentation of a major historical event. Randy Kryn (talk) 01:35, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

I have something to give to you, Randy. Knowing the historical significance of this photo, I wanted to document how the restoration was accomplished. The fun way to do that was to turn it into a music video. I didn't want to clutter the visuals, so text narration is packaged in the subtitles .srt file:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1JrqyBwuMeTyN4DeMcK-n0_fcL9QvEA_i?usp=sharing

If you like it and want to keep it accessible, please save as a dnld. This link will only be temporarily accessible.

Only the b&w steps are shown. I don't show any of the colorization steps. That part was straightforward and did not do anything irreversible, unlike the b&w part. --Wright Stuf (talk) 02:32, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

Thanks. Watched, and enjoyed the close ups and the filmed portions. Were those two dark rocks near the bottom that were edited out or anomalies in the photo? A couple of years ago I saw many of the Wright Brothers sites in Dayton, Ohio, and liked how they or someone cut up the Wright Flyer's fabric to serve as museum pieces and mementos (one piece went to the Moon with Neil Armstrong). Randy Kryn (talk) 16:04, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

Yikes. If those were rocks down there, then I totally botched the restoration. And that was the main purpose of the video, to make sure I didn't do anything improper, according to the standards of professional archivists. I am certain that those black spots are irretrievable damage done to the original image. I don't see any reason why anyone would purposely edit those out, but yes, a possibility.

I brought my own family to tour the Dayton sites, try our hand at flying their Wright Flyer simulator, peruse the Air Force Museum and such. Two other vacations complete the Wright Brothers experience: Kitty Hawk, of course. And Dearborn, Michigan of all places. Nothing like being there in person. To do that color restoration, I've touched the sand myself and returned with loads of color photos. It takes more than a century for the color of sand to noticeably change. While at the original bicycle shop outside Detroit, the man working there had been there many years. I doubt he gets asked this often, but I thought it would make for good conversation to ask if he'd seen any ghosts. He said yes. He then went into stories of sounds he would hear when he was there working alone. Wow.

There are other curiosities about the event which surround the First Flight. Like how their first attempt happened on the 121st anniversary of the Montgolfier Brothers' first balloon test flight. And how the guy who clicked the shutter of this iconic photo, John Daniels, died the day after Orville died. Orv & Will aren't even the only famous 'Wright Brothers' from Ohio. But no one thinks of these other two when you say Wright Brothers. These two sets of brothers were even contemporaries, with decades of their lives overlapping, doing their famous things just 50 miles apart from each other. Curious.

In my own conversations with Neil Armstrong, I never talked to him about the Wright Brothers. But I did check to see whether he was open to recognizing deeper meaning behind curious coincidences. He gave the response you would expect from any good scientist. Nothing more than random chance. --Wright Stuf (talk) 17:09, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

Randy, in case you prefer a more vintage look, I added the border back onto the colorized image:

File:Wright_First_Flight_1903Dec17_(restore_115,_colorized).jpg

This has several detail refinements which I also updated in the borderless version. Ok, I probably should sit on my hands now, before I go too far like a middle aged model addicted to plastic surgery procedures. --Wright Stuf (talk) 01:24, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

Good travel and interview stories above. Didn't know about the 121st anniversary connection, a nice coincidence. Glad you got to talk to Armstrong, a great way to square the circle of the Wrights. I spoke with him once for just seconds, but did make that contact (Aldrin a bit more, and attended one of his book-signing talks). Nice work on the border-image. Noticed in the page history that you haven't edited the template {{Wright aircraft}}, so please take a look at it to see if you can spot any improvements or missing pieces. I've had some pretty good edit runs on that one (template construction one of my "things" on Misplaced Pages). Curious, who are the two other Ohio Wright brothers, they don't show up at the disamb. page. Thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:03, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

For the {{Wright aircraft}} template, my only recommendation at the moment would be a separate listing for Greenfield Village (Wright house & Cycle Company building).

I'm not sure how much interest you'll have in the rest I have to offer. Short answer: Harry & George. Now I'll recommend you buckle up if you want my long answer...

The Cincinnati Reds, Boston Red Sox and Atlanta Braves have a unique claim. All three clubs can trace roots which go back to the very first professional baseball team, the Cincinnati Red Stockings. The founder of this team was Harry Wright, and also starred his younger brother George. A strong argument can be made that the Baseball Hall of Fame needs to be uprooted from Cooperstown and moved to Cincinnati as its rightful home. Cooperstown was based on A LIE.

So Orv & Wil were the second set of Ohio Wright Brothers, doing their thing 50 miles north of the first set of Ohio Wright Brothers, Harry & George. Totally eclipsed to the point where no one today remembers them. This is not where the curious coincidences end. Younger brother George had a lifespan 30 years longer than Harry. Younger brother Orv, 31 years longer than Wil. Comparing dates of birth & death of both younger brothers, George's are offset from Orville's by a pair of days, Jan 28/30 & Aug 21/19. The first World Series was held a pair of months offset from the First Flight, Oct/Dec 1903. The Red Stockings had left Cincinnati in 1870 with Harry re-establishing the team in Boston, and bringing George with him to form the Boston Red Stockings. Who played in this 1st WS 33 years later? Boston vs Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh is where Gustave Whitehead made what has been claimed to be the first piloted powered flight in 1899, using steam. Three years earlier, in 1896, he started a series of glider flights, similar to the 3-year offset of Orv&Wil between gliding & powered. Where did Gustave_do his gliding tests? In Boston. In 2013, the State of Connecticut formally recognized Whitehead as the first person to achieve powered flight, in 1901, a pair of years offset from Orv&Wil's 1903.

So Doubleday your pleasure with these odd sets of Doublemint Gum aviation & baseball facts related to these pairs of brothers & pairs of cities, Dayton/Cincinnati & Pittsburgh/Boston, etc. If someone wanted to go further down this rabbit hole, they'd note how both Buzz Aldrin and Abner Doubleday are West Point graduates, a school located double the distance from Cooperstown as Dayton is from Cincinnati, 100 vs 50 miles. And all this only scratches the surface. It says nothing of the coincidences I bounced off of Neil Armstrong. Those go MUCH DEEPER.

You mention Squaring the Circle. And you may be familiar with an entirely different set of astounding facts related to Earth-Moon-Sun / Great Pyramid geometry. Actually, both sets of facts are intimately connected. Apollo astronauts, baseball, aviation PIoneers, E-M-S geometry... and the ratio Pi. The captions in my Learn To Fly video highlights the milestones which happened 21/44/66 years after Kitty Hawk, being the first round-the-world flight, Yeager busting Mach 1, and Neil & Buzz's 1st landing. We could have picked Goddard's 1st liquid-fueled rocket launch on Mar 16, 1926, which would make for milestones at 22/44/66 years. So 3 intervals across 1 timespan between 4 milestones. Pi is approximated as 3.14. In Apollo, the commanders of the first mission to Circle the Moon and the last, Frank Borman & Gene Cernan were both born on March 14th, 3/14, Pi Day. A twist on the old jingle "Baseball, NASA, apple Pi & Chevrolet." Full on Da Vinci Code with squaring the circle. Vitruvian men flying to the Moon.

Goddard's milestone happened a pair of days apart from Pi Day, 40 miles east of the Basketball Hall of Fame. Basketball's relation to Apollo and Earth-Moon-Sun geometry is another slew of correlations. Scale the Earth down to the size of a basketball, and the Moon scales to a tennis ball. Put this basketball-Earth directly under the hoop, and the orbit of the tennis ball-Moon is found at the 3-point line. Exactly.

Well, I've probably gone way beyond the interest level of most reasonable people on this. But I did see that you had built templates for Richard Bach, Ram Dass, People who have traveled to the Moon, Honor Rolls of Baseball, etc. Also US Founding Fathers. Like how John Adams and Thomas Jefferson died on the same day within hours of each other. Not just any day, but the 50th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence. So these things I've been hammering here are like a bad Richard Alpert / Bach LSD trip. Perfectly in line with the theme of Illusions. As I indicated earlier, these synchronicities aren't even the deep ones I laid on Neil A. Armstrong, curiously given the name 'Alien' spelled backwards, with his father being a Freemason, along with his Eagle copilot and 2 other moonwalkers. I got to attend Buzz's Lodge in Clear Lake. And one of my conversations with him was about what the Freemasons asked him to do. He refused to do it. And he refused to so much as tell me what they requested. But I think I know. I think they wanted him to proclaim Tranquility Base as a Masonic Lodge, complete with a masonic flag. My best guess.

Ok, I've probably gone WAY TOO FAR. So I'll end here. --Wright Stuf (talk) 20:16, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

Will get back to read this, not now, but I know it'll be interesting and look forward to it. Randy Kryn (talk) 23:34, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

No follow up necessary. I mainly put that out there as things that make you go hmm. Me, at least. But if you do, I'll be very interested to hear your thoughts. Btw, my question to Neil was about SL9. --Wright Stuf (talk) 23:43, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

Interesting factoids and structural comparisons. The basketball/tennisball/three-point-line is quite the coincidence, and the Neil A. (never noticed or heard about that). Nice you had such good talks with Aldrin and Armstrong. Knew about the Wright's, (Harry and George), didn't connect them with Ohio. Thanks for a good read. Randy Kryn (talk) 18:21, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

11 February 2021

If you believe that the other participants at Talk:Wright Flyer#Colorized photo have behaved improperly, please take your complaint to the administrators noticeboard. Your further attempts to prolong the debate are in grave danger of becoming disruptive. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 12:56, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

Steelpillow, I see no reason why Collapsing is seen to be necessary or helpful. But if it is, then I collapsed in a way that is not a cover up. It retains the presentation of the most essential points.

You cite WP:DIS. Hello? That is a policy on Article Space, not Talk Space. --Wright Stuf (talk) 15:15, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

WARNING: You have now breached the edit-warring three-revert rule in reverting this edit by another editor. Any administrator would be well within their rights to block your account right now. May I most strongly recommend that you immediately end your disruptive behaviour before someone takes you to WP:ANI or WP:AN/EW. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 17:12, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

Steelpillow, here is yet another example of you misunderstanding and misapplying WIKIPEDIA POLICY. Either that, or you don't know how to count to FOUR.

No editor there has done more than three reverts.

And while we are talking WPolicy...

It has LONG been pointed out that all of you are refusing to conform to long standing WP:Consensus.

Most recently, it has been pointed out that the manner in which Collapsing has been applied constitutes Misplaced Pages:Vandalism.

I specifically stated:

"If anyone has a problem with the way I've collapsed the section, please explain why collapsing the entire discussion is the better approach. And does not constitute a cover up."

Your last action there, in reverting my ANTI-VANDALISM effort, addressed my severe concerns with this edit summary:

"continued deadhorse disruption"

You have therefore confirmed for me that the three of you have opted to engage in vandalism. To this moment, none of you have supported total collapse as a legitimate change.

Now let's revisit WP:3RR... Quote:

"Exemptions

4. Reverting obvious vandalism—edits ... such as page blanking ..."

So even if I had done more than 3 reverts, my actions there are fully supported by Clear Misplaced Pages Policy. Total Collapsing is not far from Page Blanking. And again, no one has presented justification for doing so as a legitimate action.

I recommend you cease your baseless misguided threats against me, STOP vandalizing that page, and conform to other WP you all have long been wantonly ignoring over there. --Wright Stuf (talk) 20:06, 11 February 2021 (UTC)