| Revision as of 15:09, 14 March 2021 editShahramrashidi (talk | contribs)229 editsm →Places in Iran: VisualTag: 2017 wikitext editor← Previous edit | Revision as of 22:27, 15 March 2021 edit undoCarlossuarez46 (talk | contribs)501,458 edits →Places in Iran: respNext edit → | ||
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| :::::::::Also please take a note, the source of most of these articles is the census, and unfortunately it has not been carefully noted that in the census, the goal is more about the number of people than the locations. The census also collects other information such as internet availability, literacy rate, etc. But if a person was on a farm or on agricultural land or a well, census officials also went there and conducted a census. But because there is no specific place or village, the name of the census place is written as farm, pump, well, behind the cement factory, etc. | :::::::::Also please take a note, the source of most of these articles is the census, and unfortunately it has not been carefully noted that in the census, the goal is more about the number of people than the locations. The census also collects other information such as internet availability, literacy rate, etc. But if a person was on a farm or on agricultural land or a well, census officials also went there and conducted a census. But because there is no specific place or village, the name of the census place is written as farm, pump, well, behind the cement factory, etc. | ||
| :::::::::For Information, in Iran, in the past, when they wanted to issue a birth certificate for the first time, most of the surnames were issued according to the job of the people or a specific feature or place, and so on. So it is better to note that the census was based on people, not exactly the place, and even if someone was in the forest or in the middle of a lake or in the middle of the desert, then it does not mean that it must have been the village.] 15:07, 14 March 2021 (UTC) | :::::::::For Information, in Iran, in the past, when they wanted to issue a birth certificate for the first time, most of the surnames were issued according to the job of the people or a specific feature or place, and so on. So it is better to note that the census was based on people, not exactly the place, and even if someone was in the forest or in the middle of a lake or in the middle of the desert, then it does not mean that it must have been the village.] 15:07, 14 March 2021 (UTC) | ||
| ::::::::::So you say. What you say is interesting, but do you have a source for any of that? That would be unique in most countries as the census tends to count people where they are living not where they happen to be when the census taker shows up. I fill out a census for my home, not the grocery store, farm, cement factory I may be located at at some magical time. If it is as you say, surely there will be reliable sources, and some explanation that while you are being counted at a cement factory you won't also be counted at home. ] (]) 22:27, 15 March 2021 (UTC) | |||
Revision as of 22:27, 15 March 2021
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Greetings and an help for Draft:Oliva (river)
Good morning from Calabria, I am writing to greet you and to know how you are. I am quite well for now, torn between a thousand things in this pandemic period that I hope will soon end. Anyway, I am writing to ask you if you can help me improve this article, just and no more than 10 minutes of your precious time, of course if I can do something for you please ask. a greeting and see you soon.--Luigi Salvatore Vadacchino (talk) 02:34, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
- I added some more. Check the draft now. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 23:04, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
- Buongiorno! I am writing to thank you for your timely intervention. Can I afford to ask you for another small, nay, simple favor? Just and no more than 10 minutes of your precious time, this is Coreca, the town where I operate on a tourist level. I ask you the courtesy of dedicating some of your time to repairing and improving the translation, especially on a historical level, and a few scattered details. Of course if I can do something for you you know where to find me, waiting to hear from you, thank you very much. Very courteous and valuable intervention from you. see you soon and thanks again.--Luigi Salvatore Vadacchino (talk) 09:46, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
Administrators' newsletter – March 2021
News and updates for administrators from the past month (February 2021).
Administrator changes
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- A request for comment is open that proposes a process for the community to revoke administrative permissions. This follows a 2019 RfC in favor of creating one such a policy.
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? - There is a discussion in progress concerning automatic protection of each day's featured article with Pending Changes protection.
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- There have been a number of reported issues with Pending Changes. Most problems setting protection appear to have been resolved (phab:T273317) but other issues with autoaccepting edits persist (phab:T275322).
Arbitration
- By motion, the discretionary sanctions originally authorized under the GamerGate case are now authorized under a new Gender and sexuality case, with sanctions
authorized for all edits about, and all pages related to, any gender-related dispute or controversy and associated people.
Sanctions issued under GamerGate are now considered Gender and sexuality sanctions. - The Kurds and Kurdistan case was closed, authorizing standard discretionary sanctions for
the topics of Kurds and Kurdistan, broadly construed
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- By motion, the discretionary sanctions originally authorized under the GamerGate case are now authorized under a new Gender and sexuality case, with sanctions
Miscellaneous
- Following the 2021 Steward Elections, the following editors have been appointed as stewards: AmandaNP, Operator873, Stanglavine, Teles, and Wiki13.
Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 19:13, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
Speedy deletion nomination of Marston, California
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Hello, and welcome to Misplaced Pages. This is a notice to inform you that a tag has been placed on Marston, California requesting that it be speedily deleted from Misplaced Pages. This has been done under section A3 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is an article with no content whatsoever, or whose contents consist only of external links, a "See also" section, book references, category tags, template tags, interwiki links, images, a rephrasing of the title, a question that should have been asked at the help or reference desks, or an attempt to contact the subject of the article. Please see Misplaced Pages:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.
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Greetings and an help for Coreca
Good morning from Calabria, I am writing to greet you and thank you for the small but essential intervention you made on the Coreca page, I ask you the kindness to expand and improve the story and a little more. My English is very poor, I mean the written one, and I make many mistakes in translation and understanding of the text. Of course, take the time it takes to do an excellent job, as I have seen from your geography. Of course if I can do something for you, just ask, I will help you with all my heart. Sure to hear from you, thank you in advance. see you soon and thanks again.--Luigi Salvatore Vadacchino (talk) 14:38, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
P.s. possibly take a cue from the Spanish, Italian or French editions, which are well edited. thanks again, cordially. --Luigi Salvatore Vadacchino (talk) 14:38, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
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Speedy deletion nomination of Sawmill Flat
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Places in Iran
Hi Carlos. About the concerns raised by Shahramrashidi at User talk:Anthony Appleyard#No reference articles in WP and Misplaced Pages talk:Articles for deletion#No/dead references articles in EN. WP about Iran villages: I think they are right that many the census entries are not actually villages. 3 kids in a trenchcoat put it well in Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Bagh-e Hajji Abdol: given that there are other "villages" listed in the same county with names translating to "gas station", "cement factory", and "peasant chicken slaughterhouse", it seems that the census takers were taking note of pretty much any building they came across
. In the census spreadsheet, many such entries are marked with an asterisk, denoting a place with "less than 3 families". It seems clear that these not legally-recognised villages or even "settlements" in the ordinary sense, just isolated households. The two articles Shahram brought up, Chah-e Shomareh Yek Amalzadeh and Tolombeh-ye Sarhang Bahrmand, translate to "Amalzadeh's Well No. 1" and "Colonel Behrmand's pump", so there is the additional problem that many of these articles could essentially giving the address of a named living person.
I think we will need to clean these up somehow, but given the volume, it would be much easier if you are willing to help? – Joe (talk) 11:14, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
- @Joe Roe: you are right completely and If you to transle all of them even their name is not village name. Also i can help in cleaning of them in order to credit of WP.Shahram 12:36, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
- I think Carlossuarez46 made a big mistake creating these articles. Carlossuarez46 most probably cannot understand Persian, otherwise he wouldn't create these articles. I know that some Iranian users encouraged him, probably out of nationalistic sentiments. Unlike what User:3 kids in a trenchcoat told at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Bagh-e Hajji Abdol, the Iranain census does not designate such places as village (Template:Lang-fa), but uses the generic term آبادی (ābādi, "developed"). The Persian term ābādi includes three items: 1) village; 2) farm; 3) place (such as gas stations, dairy farms, etc). According to an RFC at fawiki, only villages are notable, regardless of their population. BUT there is a big problem. There is no fast-and-hard rule to determine which ābādi is a village and which one is not. One cannot rely on census documents, as the work of the Iranian statistical center is based on ābādis, not villages. There are only 46,000 villages in Iran, compared to 98,000 ābādis. 4nn1l2 (talk) 21:49, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
- Notability in FAWIKI is one thing, here it's different. WP:GEOLAND shows legally recognized populated places are generally notable. There is no indication that anything is a "census tract" which is a small portion of a larger settlement. While, generally speaking, one may view publications from certain governmental units as not reliable; there is every indication that the Iranian census is of the reliable sort that we rely upon regularly at WP - they are better equipped to tell us how many people live in each of their places than anyone else. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 22:19, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
- Of course, the English Misplaced Pages can go its own way. But let me state some statistics for you, Carlossuarez46, and then you folks can make an informed decision. That's all I want, an informed decision.
- According to , there were 73,057 census tracts in the United States. The English Misplaced Pages correctly does not count census tracts notable. The US is at least 4 times more populous and 6 times vaster than Iran. But the number of ābādis in Iran are even greater than that of the United States (98,100>73,057) for a smaller, less populated, and less developed country. Is this logical? I would say, no. If US census tracts are not notable, a fortiori, Iranian ābādis are not notable. 4nn1l2 (talk) 23:10, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
- @4nn1l2: First, I do have facility in reading Persian; thanks for asking - no one should expect anyone's username to mean language ability or not. You make an argument that the number of notable populous places is somehow proportionate to either land area or population. Do you have any reliable sources for that notion? I would suspect that countries in different places were settled differently at different times. The Old World tends to be settled more in little villages from its agrarian heritage, and horse-limited transport in antiquity; the concept of village is virtually unknown in the New World. Our settlements sprouted along rivers and railroads and were accordingly spaced out and concentrated. Take India for an example: the number of villages is somewhere north of 600,000 (); other estimates go up to a million. India's area is about 1/3 of the US's. India's population is 1.366 billion or 4 times the US. But when India had only about the US population today, in the 1951 Census of India, the government recorded 558,089 villages. See page 41 of The India Census of 1951. That's 7.5X greater for a smaller, equally populated, and less developed country. That's villages. And, smaller still, there are hamlets which are also subjects of articles in all geographies; but suffice to say your argument is debunked. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 01:29, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks for the useful context 4nn1l2. Google Translate (I know, I know – but I'm not as linguistically gifted as Carlos) gives the "verified translation" of ābādi as "village", which I assumed is what led English-speaking editors to misunderstand the census data. However, if I understand correctly @Carlossuarez46:, you are saying that you do consider places like Colonel Behrmand's pump to be notable? I have trouble squaring that with existing policy, which only presumes that
populated, legally recognized places
are notable, and thatbuildings, including private residences
must show significant coverage. To clarify, are you opposing deletion of these articles? If so, where do we go from here? Maybe we need a discussion to establish which categories of ābādi can be considered notable on enwiki, as recently happened on fawiki? – Joe (talk) 08:10, 12 March 2021 (UTC)- Colonel Behrmand's pump is on a par with every other place reported in the source. That a few people live in something that sounds unlike a habitable place (which may be original research). We have plenty all over the place Harpers Ferry sounds like a boat, Cox's Bazaar sounds like a market, Charlotte Court House, Virginia sounds like a place where people sue each other, so we follow the sources. Under WP:GEOLAND, "Populated, legally recognized places are typically presumed to be notable, even if their population is very low." If the government of Iran recognizes this place, do you have a contrary source that they don't? Carlossuarez46 (talk) 19:53, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
- Joe, please read for a scholarly definition of ābādi. The point is ābādi is a very generic term, associated with "water" and "prosperity", ranging from a small farm to a metropolis. Wherever water is available in arid Iran and is not completely ruined and abandoned can be called an ābādi. The Iranian Statistical Center uses the term in a specific meaning:
However, during the second general census of 1966, ābādī acquired an official usage with reference to rural districts only, and five types of ābādī were defined. These were more closely described in the 1976 census: The census guide stated that “ābādī is applied to one or several habitations or cultivated fields located in a country district and possessing official (or possibly unofficial) boundaries”. The term was made to refer to teahouses, mines, railroad stations, and other clearly demarcated installations, as well as to villages and fields. The five type of ābādī comprised (1) the village, i.e., a complex of habitations and fields with an official head, (2-3) non-village agricultural areas (mazraʿa), administratively either separate or part of a village, (4-5) non-agricultural sites (makān), likewise in two administrative categories.
- Carlossuarez46, Mazraeh-ye Dariush Baharvand Ahmadi (Farm of Mr. Dariush Baharvand Ahmadi) is NOT on par with Harpers Ferry! The latter has 42KB of content, the former cannot be expanded at all. You made an original research calling this ābādi a village. How did you come to that conclusion? This is clearly a farm . The population of this farm was not reported in the 2006 census. It does not even exist in the 2011 census. The 2016 census says it is completely unpopulated (0 people). 4nn1l2 (talk) 09:09, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
- I agree that the original research is in taking a single line from a census spreadsheet, with no information other than a name and the ambiguous description ābādi, and deciding this is a settlement that meets WP:GEOLAND. The burden is on you the creator to show that these are, as described, "villages", not on us to disprove it. As 4nn1l2 says, we don't know that anyone lives there. From the same source:
About 23 percent of the ābādīs were non-residential
. - And I have to say, this is hardly the first time this issue has come up with your creations Carlos. I appreciate your work on these and understand that mistakes happen, but it's disappointing that you are not willing to acknowledge them and help clean them up. Are other editors once again going to have to spend their time checking thousands of your articles and sending those that can't be verified to AfD? – Joe (talk) 10:11, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
- Also please take a note, the source of most of these articles is the census, and unfortunately it has not been carefully noted that in the census, the goal is more about the number of people than the locations. The census also collects other information such as internet availability, literacy rate, etc. But if a person was on a farm or on agricultural land or a well, census officials also went there and conducted a census. But because there is no specific place or village, the name of the census place is written as farm, pump, well, behind the cement factory, etc.
- For Information, in Iran, in the past, when they wanted to issue a birth certificate for the first time, most of the surnames were issued according to the job of the people or a specific feature or place, and so on. So it is better to note that the census was based on people, not exactly the place, and even if someone was in the forest or in the middle of a lake or in the middle of the desert, then it does not mean that it must have been the village.Shahram 15:07, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
- So you say. What you say is interesting, but do you have a source for any of that? That would be unique in most countries as the census tends to count people where they are living not where they happen to be when the census taker shows up. I fill out a census for my home, not the grocery store, farm, cement factory I may be located at at some magical time. If it is as you say, surely there will be reliable sources, and some explanation that while you are being counted at a cement factory you won't also be counted at home. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 22:27, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
- I agree that the original research is in taking a single line from a census spreadsheet, with no information other than a name and the ambiguous description ābādi, and deciding this is a settlement that meets WP:GEOLAND. The burden is on you the creator to show that these are, as described, "villages", not on us to disprove it. As 4nn1l2 says, we don't know that anyone lives there. From the same source:
- Joe, please read for a scholarly definition of ābādi. The point is ābādi is a very generic term, associated with "water" and "prosperity", ranging from a small farm to a metropolis. Wherever water is available in arid Iran and is not completely ruined and abandoned can be called an ābādi. The Iranian Statistical Center uses the term in a specific meaning:
- Colonel Behrmand's pump is on a par with every other place reported in the source. That a few people live in something that sounds unlike a habitable place (which may be original research). We have plenty all over the place Harpers Ferry sounds like a boat, Cox's Bazaar sounds like a market, Charlotte Court House, Virginia sounds like a place where people sue each other, so we follow the sources. Under WP:GEOLAND, "Populated, legally recognized places are typically presumed to be notable, even if their population is very low." If the government of Iran recognizes this place, do you have a contrary source that they don't? Carlossuarez46 (talk) 19:53, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks for the useful context 4nn1l2. Google Translate (I know, I know – but I'm not as linguistically gifted as Carlos) gives the "verified translation" of ābādi as "village", which I assumed is what led English-speaking editors to misunderstand the census data. However, if I understand correctly @Carlossuarez46:, you are saying that you do consider places like Colonel Behrmand's pump to be notable? I have trouble squaring that with existing policy, which only presumes that