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Phil Ochs

Howdy Tvoz,

So far am pleased with the edits on the Phil Ochs Wiki entry. I'll be sure to stay tuned and see how it evolves over time.

Peace,

Geneisner 06:26, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks - I think it's shaping up now too, and things are in better proportion. (The prominence of hat AFTRA note was bothering me!) Tvoz 06:36, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for contributing to Misplaced Pages! You recently added an external link to a fansite in an article. It has been removed because the link pointed to a non-encyclopedic source. Please refer to Misplaced Pages's policy on external links for more information. '--Veinor (ヴエノル) 04:33, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

my response: Whoa, wait a second - I didn't add that item, I reverted an arbitrary edit made by an anonymous editor, who then went in and posted an inane reason for deleting it. Why are you coming in 2 seconds after I reinstated it with this? Did you even look at that source? Also, how about discussion on the talk page before coming in with a hammer? I'm reinstating it. Tvoz 04:47, 16 November 2006 (UTC

It's a myspace fansite, two things that WP:EL forbids. Veinor (ヴエノル) 04:54, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

I removed a level 3 warning template here per ]'s suggestions on my talkpage that I had previously inserted. Veinor (ヴエノル) 06:20, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Hey, cool it - I'd like an admin to come in here please - I'm asking for this to be discussed, and this editor is just ripping off an item (not a very important one, by the way) that has been standing on the page for a while. Tvoz 05:04, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

If you want an admin opinion, you should probably post at the Aministrator's noticeboard. {{helpme}} doesn't bring in an admin. Other options you could explore are filing an WP:RFC and further steps in Dispute resolution. Honestly however that external link does not belong, and I don't think any admin or RFC will give you a more favorable opinion. --Birgitte§β ʈ Talk 05:17, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

You are welcome. Feel free to ask me if you need any other dorections around here. It can be very confusing about where is the right place for answers. Alot of the people doing cleanup work, like removing improper links, work off long lists and tend to get impersonal as they continully leave the same messages again and again. It is really hard to stay fresh and not get short with people when continually getting negative reactions for doing unexciting but very necessary grunt work. I am sorry that you had a bad experience today. I've personally been on both ends of these things in my time here so I am a little more philosophical about it now. It is generally best to assume the cleanup person knows something you don't and ask about the policy backing up what they did, which in this case is WP:EL. I understand that the warning about blocking you while answering your question doesn't really help things, but I always try cut people doing that kind of work extra slack. --Birgitte§β ʈ Talk 05:59, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

OK, let me see how clearly I can explain this. At Misplaced Pages, fansites and links to Myspace sites are generally not allowed. There are exceptions to the fansite rule that this could possibly fall under, given its popularity, but the MySpace rule still covers it. It states that links to social networking sites (which MySpace is) are not allowed unless "mandated by the article itself." Basically, they're only allowed if they need to be mentioned specifically (e.g., for criticism). Therefore, the link was viewed as inappropriate. I apologize if i came off as impersonal; after a while, you just start to run on autopilot when you're cleaning up articles. Veinor (ヴエノル) 06:20, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

You're welcome!

Sometimes I think there's too many help pages to be helpful. There's just so much to learn here!

Where do you live that you don't observe DST? I live in Indiana, and we just switched over this year. I hate it. -- Merope 02:28, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Murray the K

Great job on the Murray the K article! I didn't know his son but we went to the same high school, McBurney School, and I did get to meet Murry the K once when he visited the lunchroom. That would have been pre-Beatles, say 1962, but he was already a big name in New York, and I especially remember the collecctions of oldies - meaning 1950's hits - he had on LP records - great at dances. Revmoran 19:07, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

• I believe his name was Neil Kaufman - he was several years younger and I only really knew he was a student because of the time his father came to school - which was quite an event. Revmoran 17:18, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Cat Stevens

Good work : ) Mrtea (talk) 03:38, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Bronx Zoo

Hello Tvoz,

Regarding Bronx Zoo and the Yankees; For non-Yankee fans/anybody whose unfamiliar with NY Yankees, "for the book about the Yankees, see Sparky Lyle", it's seems not in a right place/unclear, since Bronx Zoo and Yankees has no relation beside both in Bronx, New York. You cleared the problem, by adding the book's name in last edit. I thought it was a joke, my apology.--Stavenn 11:46, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

re:Email

From what I can remember you had put {{subst:promophoto}} instead of {{promophoto}} which had the effect of copying the entire template including the bits that should be included (wrapped in <noinclude> </noinclude>) in the image page. The upshot of all this was that the images were included in a number of categories that they don't belong in i.e. "Unfree image templates". If you have a question about a specific image, please drop a note at my User talk page. Megapixie 11:54, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

No problem - I've been here over a year and I still come across things that are confusing... Megapixie 22:27, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

License tagging for Image:Clockers book.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Clockers book.jpg. Misplaced Pages gets thousands of images uploaded every day, and in order to verify that the images can be legally used on Misplaced Pages, the source and copyright status must be indicated. Images need to have an image tag applied to the image description page indicating the copyright status of the image. This uniform and easy-to-understand method of indicating the license status allows potential re-users of the images to know what they are allowed to do with the images.

For more information on using images, see the following pages:

• Misplaced Pages:Image use policy
• Misplaced Pages:Image copyright tags

This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. If you need help on selecting a tag to use, or in adding the tag to the image description, feel free to post a message at Misplaced Pages:Media copyright questions. 05:04, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Science Nobel Ranking

Tvoz,

I figured that I'd respond to your question on the Bx Sci talk page so any of the curious could see the answer, but here's what I posted there:

According to the table on the Nobel Laureates by country page, 7 laureates is the number shared by India and Spain, which are tied for 21st. I'm assuming that 10th was inaccurate in 2003, but I don't know what source. I figured that there would be at least some curiosity about this, which is why I included the reference when I made the change.

Feel free to drop a line if there's any questions, or just post them there, I'll keep watching.

--Prainog 02:04, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Unspecified source for images

archived: Image:Reggiejackson.jpg, Image:Lou Gehrig.jpg, Image:Yogi larsen.jpg, Image:Mickeymantle.jpg, Image:Rogermaris.jpg, Image:Thurman Munson.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:MurrayWINS.jpg. I notice the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you have not created this file yourself, then there needs to be a justification explaining why we have the right to use it on Misplaced Pages (see copyright tagging below). If you did not create the file yourself, then you need to specify where it was found, i.e., in most cases link to the website where it was taken from, and the terms of use for content from that page.

If the file also doesn't have a copyright tag, then one should be added. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then the {{GFDL-self}} tag can be used to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media meets the criteria at Misplaced Pages:Fair use, use a tag such as {{fairusein|article name}} or one of the other tags listed at Misplaced Pages:Image copyright tags#Fair_use. See Misplaced Pages:Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. cholmes75 14:42, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Edit

Hi TVOZ, I edited your comment header (In BX Science). I know that's not the nicest thing, but something seemed very uncool/unfair about you using the name of a discussee in a heading. I don't want an edit war, but you are coming across as the self-ordained "keeper of". I realize you are just trying to maintain order - I've done it myself - but I also want to mention how it looks from my side. 65.57.106.28 02:41, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I responded to this on User talk:65.57.106.28. It's not "not the nicest thing" - editing someone else's comment on a Talk page is out of line. Tvoz 06:40, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Nomination for candidacy

Hi Tvoz,

The Science article is probably not ready, not yet developed to the level, to be nominated for featured article candidate. See Bronx Sience discussion.Bxsstudent 19:11, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

yes, I agree totally - I was not the one who nominated it, and I don't think it's ready to be a featured article either. Tvoz 19:18, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Cat name piping

_ _ Two errors! In two months? You're going exhaust your quota in, um, ... uh, .... How many years does 10,000 months make?
_ _ The Cat pipes are a bit obscure, as wiki markup goes, and bios are where it most often pinches. If you run out of interesting places to screw things up , you might consider patrolling Col... names and/or Joy... ones for uninverted or unpiped names ... now that you're one of the initiates! But on the other hand, don't let suggestions like mine interfere with the instructions of your assignment editor. Keep up the good work!
--Jerzy•t 03:27, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
That technique (or, in tricky cases that someone else has already dealt with thoroly, checking the hdgs on the bio's talk page) is sometimes necessary, tho common sense is often sufficient, and in fact see Talk:Hu Ge for a pathological case! However, IMO the single most important factor (should have mentioned earlier; i think you're the first to whom i've offered the thot that has led us to this discussion) is described in something i wrote; finding it yourself may amuse and edify you, but feel free to say "cut the bullshit", and i will take a very short break to provide you the lk (which i should save somewhere anyway, for use until i can rewrite the contrib as part of the non-talk pg i was commenting about).

1. Click to my user page (but open a new window, so you have the rest of the directions in front of you.
2. Click on "User contributions" from the built-in "toolbox" on that page.

   (If you're using the WP Pop-up Tools, as i eventually realized i should, you know how to achieve the effect of those two steps without displaying my user page.)

3. In the "Namespace:" selector, choose "Misplaced Pages talk", and click "Go".
4. Use your browser's Find function to locate my last (i'm almost certain) contribution to any page in that namespace that has "Categ" in its title.
5. Altho that now removed contrib also exists in an Archive of that page (where it is addressable by section via wiki-lk that i'll place here if you ask), at the moment the quickest way to find it is to
   1. note the date of my contrib,
   2. click on "history" for the page i edited,
   3. find the entry for my edit by time-stamp sequence, and
   4. click on that time-stamp to see the page exactly as i left it.
6. Click on the first entry of the ToC on that old version (to get just past the end of the probably long ToC).
7. Scroll up slightly to see the end of the ToC.
8. Click on the last entry, which should be the hdg of my contrib.
9. Sit in Full Lotus position for five minutes to achieve a state of alert calm.
10. Dig into some experimental observations i recorded, which will save you some confusion re various editors' treatments and mistreatments of CJK names, and maybe be more specifically helpful.

As i say, don't hesitate to ask for the shortcut (which, on reflection, probably would have been quicker to find and pass you than to write these instructions ).
--Jerzy•t 17:51, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
OK, here: Misplaced Pages talk:Categorization#Alphabetization of articles within a Category. (Actually, i wasted time trying to find the Archive page in question; maybe i was thinking of something else, or maybe it got removed from the Archive in order to revive it on the talk page: it got a comment i had not seen, which also means it's probably premature (rather than overdue) for going onto Misplaced Pages:Categorization.) I'm going to comment further in that section (probably irrelevantly to the purposes i raised it with you for), but (hopefully) i'll restrain myself for the next 36 hours.
--Jerzy•t 18:24, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Responses to two of yours:

1. Yeah, i was wrong about "my last contrib".
2. Be scared. Be very scared.

--Jerzy•t 18:38, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Answer to your question.

Not easily. You can request a checkuser, but you have to have a pretty good justification for doing so. Sorry I'm not more helpful! -- Merope 20:02, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Support for Bronx Science GA collaboration

The Bronx Science article had been nominated for Good Article Collaboration of the Week by another editor. This should a significant step toward its collaborative development as asserted by Ross. Please add your suppport at http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Good_Article_Collaboration_of_the_week.Bxsstudent 00:12, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Bronx Science

Hi, thank you for notifying me. The article was delisted from WP:GA page. However, what is strange for me is User:Qazws11 nominated the article for the collaboration of the week after (s)he passed the article for GA. The GA COTW is used to drive an article to get a GA status. So it's useless if an article is nominated for GA COTW after it gets GA status. Furthermore, since I re-listed the article at WP:GAC, I raised question at WP:GACo#Bronx_High_School_of_Science. Do you want to nominate at WP:GAC or as GA COTW? Cheers. — Indon (reply) — 09:49, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, you are right, I was wrong. Another GA reviewer has explained in the GA COTW page. Let's see if the article passes GA, then the nomination can continue. Sorry. — Indon (reply) — 18:16, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Ah, ok - the reason I raised it is I saw no point in pursuing GACo of the week if it was going to be shot down because the GA status was removed. So I think where we stand now is that the article is nominated for Good Article status, awaiting reviews, and we'll take it from there. ThanksTvoz 18:21, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

ISBN formats

I'm not sure about this - I've seen them on Misplaced Pages with and without the hyphens. John Lennon is the one you changed tonight. Tvoz 05:06, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Don't worry, this is the ISBN standard way of displaying them. Rich Farmbrough 07:22 23 November 2006 (UTC).

Ochs again

Answered at Talk:Phil Ochs. - Jmabel | Talk 00:18, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

"…grew up on the same music you did…": I grew up on such a variety of music! My father was the one into folk—I'm a second-generation red diaper baby, he had the Almanac Singers & Paul Robeson 78s from his teen years, for example, which I heard as a child—but he was also into outside jazz (one of the few people of Coltrane's own generation who thought Trane got better and better as he got more avant garde) and was one of the older Beatles' fans (he traveled a lot, and brought Beatles & Stones records back from the UK when they were still a bit of a novelty). He and my mom both liked Broadway show tunes, and she liked mainstream jazz-influenced pop (Sinatra, Andrews Sisters) but also listened to WBAI and might have been one of the few people who thought early synthesizer music ("of the computers, by the computers, and for the computers") was listenable. And starting in about 1964 I discovered WMCA, which was mostly Top 40 at the time, but also went way deeper into garage rock than most stations of the time: when Lenny Kaye brought out Nuggets, I already knew half of what was on it. And then I went to college and wanted to work at the radio station, and the only opening was the classical show. - Jmabel | Talk 00:46, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

"…So come all you good travelers / And fellow travelers, too…"

So, I take that we are not only the same age and similar backgrounds but also grew up near one another & listened to the same radio stations? I don't remember B. Mitchell Reed (before my time?), but I was certainly listening to WMCA before Alex Bennett got there (and well into his tenure, and even when they first went talk radio). Actually, I probably remember their one talk show from the mid-60s—Barry Gray—better than any of the DJs. Gray had an amazing selection of guests, everyone from the editors of Screw to Herman Badillo. Bennett was certainly the best WMCA DJ I remember but I'm thinking before his time, "Home of the Good Guys", playing the Count Five next to Staff Sgt. Barry Sadler and Johnny Cash next to the Stones, where a "Golden Oldie" often meant six months ago. Top 25 radio—not even Top 40. Other DJs I remember were Harry Harrison and Gary Stevens. Does that date it pretty precisely? - Jmabel | Talk 07:54, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Alex Bennett: Anyone who played Terry Riley's "Rainbow in Curved Air" on a rock station is alright by me, poser politics notwithstanding. - Jmabel | Talk 20:10, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Century: Several have the year only in the title. Two leap to mind: the Bee Gees "New York Mining Disaster, 1941" and "Aladdin Sane (1913-1938-197?)", which I used for 1938. And there are some instrumentals. - Jmabel | Talk 20:13, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Cat Stephens

The Cat Stephens quote consists of him just talking while he's thinking about what to say, annd he finally finds it and says it: Christians have all this stuff in their religious books too. By including the whole quote, it make it less likely that people actually read what he finally got around to saying. I think the rest of the section makes it clear that his opinion is mixed and flexible (yes to killing Rushdie, no to vigilantism, maybe to non-leathal vigilantism, etc). This quote clearly does not contain a retraction, but it does ask christians to think about his position in their own terms. So that what I thought was the important part. I'm not sure why I even left those first two sentences there the first time. JeffBurdges 04:11, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I'll just be happy with the fact that the sentence I are about is the last line in the quote. JeffBurdges 04:55, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Gibb brothers

Thank you - the "he was 53 years old" had to go, and I feel honoured. Of all the edits I've seen recently, it is one of my favourites. On the bright side it didn't say "unfortunately he was only 53 years old". I've never seen the "unfortunately" and the "only" used in one sentence and my head will surely explode if ever I do. I thought I'd take a peek at the Andy Gibb article, and sure enough, my worst fears were confirmed, so I decided to match your edit with this one. Very satisfying! :-) Rossrs 07:29, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Blame me, that's fine. I've been told by a few editors that we should remember not everyone is good at math, to which I asked, "does that mean we should be intentionally aiming Misplaced Pages at people who are not good at math?", and the answer I got was "yes, we should." I was a little surprised. Then I said "a lot of people can't read but we keep writing articles", and nobody replied to that one. I suspect that by then only the people who can't read were still hanging around, probably hoping that I would upload a picture, and the people who aren't good at math had gone, which was unlucky because apparently they can read, and they could have commented. It would have been nice. I get the impression that you can read, plus you're good at math. That's an unusual combination. Let's see how quickly you get reverted. I commend your fortitude, even if you are planning on offering me up to the angry mob! Cheers! Rossrs 11:23, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, however a day is made is not important. I'm pleased you like it.  :-) Cheers Rossrs 07:10, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Re: Amish vandal

I decided not to block that IP. This is a difficult case, but I decided it was pointless to block an IP several hours after it last vandalizes. I am sure that it will be blocked for an even longer period if it vandalizes again. Academic Challenger 04:25, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Barnstar

Images

Hi Tvoz, well I don't agree entirely with all of Misplaced Pages's uberrestrictive policies either, despite my recent spats with some other editors, but I think that the way to change a policy is to discuss it, not simply disregard it - I understand our policy errs on the side of caution rather than applying fair use doctrine to the letter. Anyhow I think the big question with promo photos is this - can the image be replaced with a free alternative that would provide the same information? Often the answer is yes, especially with a living celebrity because it is theoretically possible to get a free image (not necessarily easy, but possible). The difference with a dead celebrity is that the number of photos in existence is finite and if a free image doesn't exist already it's too late to create it. Lately a school of thought has emerged here that contends images of dead celebrities are more allowable and less likely to be challenged than images of living celebrities. I think the image you've found is therefore as acceptable as many other images that are regarded as acceptable. I would upload it, ensure you link to source, but most importantly provide a fair use rationale. Then .... double check that a "replaceable tag" has not automatically been applied to the image. Something has been changed recently in the upload process that automatically adds the tag, but I don't know under what circumstances it's added. I think if you choose a licence it doesn't like, it automatically tags it. If the tag is added, you should remove it because it wouldn't apply. I've been adding generic fair use rationales to previously existing images of dead celebrities. A couple of examples are Image:Fredginger.jpg (Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers - I got a bit specific with this image because I wanted it to cover use in both articles), and Image:Gloria3.jpg (Gloria Swanson - this is more generic and I've applied this to numerous similar images of various people.) Let me know if there's anything you need a hand with. As for Commons - I've uploaded some screenshots from public domain films on there. I haven't spent much time there and I'm not as familiar with how it all works - I find it a little scary to tell the truth! Happy uploading. You could really be mischievous and choose the Witch Hazell image instead. It's very .... ummmm.... nice? No? Cheers Rossrs 05:17, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

PS. I've also seen some discussions that suggest we should extend this idea to include living celebrities if we're looking for an image that represents a person at their period of fame. The example given was Bettie Page an 80+ year old woman who was a popular pinup 50 years ago. The question there is - do we want a picture of 80+ year Bettie (preferably with her clothes on) to show what she looks like, or do we want 25 year old Bettie in a bikini to show what she looked like when she was famous? No decision on that one, but it's interesting isn't it? Rossrs 05:23, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

ryan d.---senior at Bronx Science

I added some clarification in the 'collaborations section' like you asked. Thanks for the words of advice! I'm waiting for the Early Decision word back from a 'large name' school. I am nervous and excited, and most of the stress comes from not knowing where I will be going for the next four years of my life. I rest in the fact that I'm going somewhere, and I will make the best of wherever I am. I will certainly miss Science, though. I've been involved in so many amazing things, and have met so many amazing people------for me, I will never forget the opportunity that Bronx Science gave me. I'm sure you feel the same.

--ryan

PS. i'm still crossing my fingers that the edleville murders "surface". ha!

User:WeinsteinWarWolf

Regarding your request at Misplaced Pages:Administrator intervention against vandalism User:WeinsteinWarWolf was blocked (see: ). However blocked users can continue to edit their talkpage, which is what he or she has been doing since. Rockpocket 09:04, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

You're welcome. He or she has been blocked indefinitely, but will probably return under another account. They usually do. Rockpocket 09:09, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Warning template - specification

Glad to help - put the usual {{subst:test4}} for example, but after the test4 put a vertical line - | - and the page name without a Wiki link (it does that itself). Giving you, {{subst:test4|John Lennon}} which will include in the warning, ...as you did to John Lennon.... or similar. Kev Liverpool Scouse 15:09, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

• Yes I saw the suggestion on Talk:John Lennon, and see that it's been given protection, which is welcome news - God knows how much reverting would be getting done otherwise! Liverpool Scouse 20:57, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Yep, I did have a check earlier today and expected to see loads of reverts on the history so I was pleasantly suprised! I think it hasn't really attracted as much media attention this year as last year, with it being the 25th anniversary last year and all. But indeed - a toast John, 26 years on and still as influential as ever. Liverpool Scouse 20:08, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
    • It's sad that he got killed over there when he loved it so much due to the freedom he had to wander the streets without being harrassed by fans too much. Having said that, Chapman was so obsessed he more than likely would have travelled to any other city had Lennon chosen to live there. New York has done him proud though - The Strawberry Fields park and Imagine memorial are perfect ways to remember him. Liverpool Scouse 20:40, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Re: WP:AIV

On closer review, I've decided to block the IP. Thanks for your time. :) Luna Santin 20:27, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

TNG

Thanks. Shooting self not needed. All stuff added to that article was from the Companion and the Gene Roddenberry authorised biography, which I cited. Plan to add an awful lot more stuff in future : the problem is where to start! Morwen - Talk 21:25, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

warning: Systematic repeated violation of Wiki rules WP: Living

One more violation of Wiki rules and you will be reported as a repeat violator. 23:38, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

The user who added the above threat, User:Rjensen, has been blocked by User:Khoikhoi for 31 hours for WP:3RR. ProhibitOnions 10:53, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm attempting mediation -- Talk:Nelson Rockefeller -- Merope 15:08, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

This threat is unfounded. Tvoz 19:01, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Megan Marshak

Hey, Tvoz, you might also be interested to learn that Rjensen has censored the Megan Marshak article as well. Granted, the revious text needed a lot of work, but we've got 31 hours... Regards, ProhibitOnions 11:32, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

• Be that as it may, the model here is bold, revert, discuss. Take it to Talk, please, and achieve consensus. Your wording, if nothing else, needs work. Guy (Help!) 18:40, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
• Since you seem unclear, Nelson Rockefeller. Guy (Help!) 19:25, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Barack Obama

I don't get it either to be honest with you, alot of things about how Wiki is run makes no sense to me, but i'll just leave it be. I don't want to argue with anybody on here, i'd prefer to be constructive. Just H 15:53, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Lennon

Absolutley NO problem about edit wars with me :) A lot of us have been working on the McCartney page, and over the last few weeks we have been trimming things on it (have a look and see what you think...) It's scary how finite a page has to be to get an FA. After the McCartney page gets an FA (which a few of us think it will) there have been suggestions that Lennon may be the next. This does not mean that hordes of us will descend on Lennon, but only a group of Beatles fans that can improve it - with the aim of getting an FA. We all get along really well, and we have had a good time working on 'Macca' together. You should join us (BTW, I'm not a scout leader, lol). --andreasegde 21:23, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

References? Uhh... we've got lots (and lots) of them on 'Macca' - even the "hard-edged", and "baby-faced" ones. Copy the book page references over, but don't forget to copy the book 'References' as well, or it won't make sense. Good work on protecting the Lennon page, BTW... --andreasegde 21:39, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Freddie

I didn't write that bit, but it is true. I only put the first paragraph in, as I didn't have time to do more. Re: The links - Spitz is a respected author, and there is also a web link there to the 'Liverpool Lennons'. Other sources are also available on the Web. Wait until the bit where Freddie takes John to Blackpool, because he wanted to emigrate (with John) to New Zealand, and John had to choose between Freddie and Julia... heavy stuff for a young child. --andreasegde 12:14, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, the story about Julia and Freddie (who was always known as Alf by the family BTW) being musical is true. Julia played Banjo, and Freddie did some other musical stuff. I was too lazy to go back and read through the pages, but I will... --andreasegde 16:34, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Nice to hear from you

I've commented on the Bee Gees page. I strongly feel that the song was never released as a single, and in terms of their careers it's a bit "so what?" But it could be someone's favourite song.... I sense that you are weary of some of the attitudes here, and I know how you feel. I've been struck with a barrage of criticism and rudeness here recently that I find difficult to comprehend because it seems to have come from out of the blue, and from people I never expected it from. Actually, I shouldn't find it too difficult - I deal with "the public" on a daily basis.  :-) With the leadup to Christmas I've been finding that I've had less time available to spend here. I think I may sign off for now, get myself a nice Thai takeaway and watch a movie or two. Thank you for the very nice acknowledgement on your user page. I was incredibly pleased; it made my day! Cheers. Rossrs 07:30, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

your words

thanks, Tvoz. Your words mean a lot to me. Unfortunately, I was deferred from Princeton. It was early decision, and I cannot fully describe my emotions. I would have liked the process to be over today, but, unfortunately, it will not be. I am putting the finishing touches on my other applications, and will have them out by the end of the week. I wasnt flat out rejected, so I feel a little bit better that I will be considered in the regular application pool. Overall, I hope you are right----that it doesnt matter where I go. Whats important is what i Do wherever I am. (At least thats what I tell myself). Now, the waiting game until March.--Rocketrye12 04:26, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

McCartney

Good comment about the Linda section (what a difference a fresh pair of eyes can make). I rearranged the sentence and it makes sense now. --andreasegde 14:51, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Well spotted! I have moved it under the 'Family life' header, which seems to make more sense (as that section is an overview). It's great to have you on board with us. --andreasegde 18:34, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

I have just read your comments on the Lennon talk page, and I instantly felt like giving you a Barnstar. (I think I will, at some point... :) You are a 'breath of fresh air', and I am really looking forward to us all working together. --andreasegde 21:38, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

This is funny, but true: If you win something (and you are English) you are 'English'. If you are Scottish, Welsh, or Northern Irish, you are 'British'. It's a bugger, but such is the mentality of the Brits/English (of which I am one, BTW) although I disagree with the idea, having a tiny little bit of Scottish ancestry myself... --andreasegde 01:04, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Check out Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject The Beatles. --andreasegde 01:11, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Painful

I truly, and deeply, apologise. I am absolutely not sexist, but one encounters so many on these pages. I normally write she/he when talking about editors. I will now take the hair shirt out of the closet and wear it for 24 hours. Do I feel like a moron? Doh! --andreasegde 01:26, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

No, I'm not that sensitive (scratch, scratch) and it's good to have you working with us (scratch, scratch... :) What makes me laugh is that I should have known you were not a bloke, because you were too intelligent and reasonable on the Lennon pages (I'm not joking about this) and then you spotted stuff that none of us have ever noticed on Macca's. (Whack - ouch!... :) --andreasegde 12:16, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Botbrains

No problem. Rich Farmbrough, 09:51 18 December 2006 (GMT).

Spooky!

Whoooo! Your'e not gonna believe this, but I've just been looking at all of Phil's stuff on You Tube! I log in an the message bar goes up, an I think It's Sir Sean on the wind up from Spain, but no a Phil Ochs fan!! I suppose you spotted my edit to "Talking Birmingham Jam", an thought, "how did a limey know that one?" Yeah, I Love Phil Ochs - Genius! I once met an English singer songwriter in a club who was a good friend of his, and he wrote a wonderful song about him, but I can't remember his name if my life depended on it.

Well, I never did, it really is very nice to meet you! Very best wishes, Vera, Chuck & Dave 20:54, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

You can go on for as long as you like Queen! Wow, you used to go to his concerts? Oh WOW! No it wasn't Bragg, he had a really great voice Like Phil's I'll get it one of these days! I'm so pleased that your children know him, there really is hope for this world after all! Sorry this has taken so long, but I'm recovering from an accident an can't type very fast at the moment, but it's getting better! Yes, we do need him now - Tony Blair, find yourself an another country to be part of! Best wishes, Vera, Chuck & Dave 21:37, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

He would have made mincemeat (hamburger) out of the pair of em! I was just eating dinner and our "prince" was just on the news, and is bangin on about IRAN now!!!!. Yes I'd love the link, can't seem to find it. Take care, Vera, Chuck & Dave 22:51, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Got Him! Harvey Andrews. Vera, Chuck & Dave 01:04, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi Tvoz, thanks very much for tying, no wonder I had no luck, lets hope that your husband will be able to talk him round, I'd love to see that, I've never heard him interviewed. I'm not sure, but I don't think he ever played over here, perhaps you may know? I looked for "Hey Sandy" on youtube, but the only Andrew's song they have is "Soldier", which for some strange reason will not link, it also seems to be running to fast, making his voice sound higher and by the comments left, seems sadly to have been hijacked (or misunderstood) by the Right-they never "get" irony, do they? You went to Kent State? I am not worthy!! Take care, Vera, Chuck & Dave 13:52, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Please see this

Here ] Simbirskin 09:33, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Reverting text on other people's talk pages

The account that goes by the name of "Sir Nicholas de Mimsy Porpington" came onto my user talk page and removed this message ("Please see this: Here ] User:Simbirskin|Simbirskin 09:33, 22 December 2006 (UTC)") that was meant for me. He did this without even bothering to explain himself or send me an email, as if I just wouldn't notice it. This is unacceptable behavior and I am reporting him. I do not care who the sender of the above note is - it is up to me whether I read it or take it seriously or act on it, not someone else. Stay away from my talk page. Tvoz 19:56, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

And apparently he also reverted the text that this was pointing to, on yet another person's talk page, but it is retrievable. I'm not commenting right now on the content of the material - I am strenuously objecting to his coming onto my talk page and removing text without even attempting to contact me. Tvoz 19:57, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

LOL!

No, just: "Stupid Scouse Get, GM"! He's correct a GM is conferred, but an MBE is an award you can't appoint an appointment. "MBE award" gets one million, one hundred & ten thousand Google hits! Cheers, Vera, Chuck & Dave 23:29, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

I like your edit, I've just asked B Z Bod to have a look at it! The problem is, that an MBE is Awarded but by the token it is an appointment. Him 12? I doubt it, me 10 year old baby girls are more grown up than him! One of em was putting in page numbers for Sir Sean when me shoulder was really hurting and I could hardly move. Cheers! Vera, Chuck & Dave 01:02, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

I also like the edit. Mind you, if this article is going to go for FA then it will need to be resolved - enjoy Christmas, have a break, and then hunt the blessed thing down and get a definitive answer - or it will be failed.LessHeard vanU 01:08, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Re; Vera, Chuck & Dave GM

If you want to know why he got a GM I suggest you look at item 6 on his talk page...B Z Body

OH NO!

Stop it! You've started me off again, me shoulder's killin me! What a Country eh? Nowhere like it in the world - I loved it when Joe ( Crestville) came in- 3,"Disagreeing with a Fireman" and P.S. "Some Yanks are cool"! I think he was refering to you, you are dead cool, and very funny! I wish you and all your Family a very Merry Christmas and a Happy and Peaceful New Year. Very best wishes, Vera, Chuck & Dave 11:40, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Pint

I tried it before, they always spill in transit. And me a barman, eh? Merry Chrizzmuzz.--Crestville 12:36, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, didn't realise you was a girl. Too easy to assume everyone on wikipedia is a lad. Is that your minority status then?--Crestville 12:45, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Season's Greetings

Thank you for your message, and a very Merry Christmas and happy holidays to you too. I've had one "White Christmas" in my life and the rest I've spent in sunny, tropical Brisbane. To me, a "White Christmas" seems kind of odd, but luckily I've grown up on an unhealthy diet of American TV and cinema, so I can buy into the whole Bing Crosby thing without stretching my imagination too far. As a matter of fact, I have my airconditioner turned to "Arctic blizzard" right now, so it's kind of chilly. I have to ask - where are you? Wherever it is, I hope it's fun and you have a fine time. Best wishes. Rossrs 13:51, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

New York! I would never have guessed! I must admit I was surprised to see Col Joye mentioned on your user page. An Australian icon (more or less) but I wonder how many people in New York have heard of him! I dare say a lot of people in Brisbane have never heard of him either ;-) Rossrs 13:57, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

And you started his page too, I notice, and that's great. Rossrs 14:02, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

The Col Joye article looks fine to me. It is a bit sketchy, but it's more than a stub. It looks accurate to me, but I'm no expert. The only major event I know of that could be added, concerns an accident he had a few years ago when he fell off his roof and landed on his head. Fortunately he didn't live in a 10th floor apartment ;-) The media in Australia started writing what can only be described as obituaries, but he failed to oblige. He's fully recovered and he acted as both the headline act and MC for a major rock tour a couple of years ago. (That's an interesting article in itself and one I'll definitely do) I've seen his performance on DVD and it was very good, I must say, though I'm not a "fan". I'll see what I can find and maybe add to the article. Rossrs 12:05, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

After a bit of research - he fell, not off his roof, but out of a tree and it wasn't "a few years ago", it was 1990. I think the only bit I got right was the "I'm no expert" part. Rossrs 13:18, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Kidnapped

I agree with you 100%. Kidnapped was a great show and it is a shame it didn't last long enough on NBC. I hope it gets picked up by another station as well. Happy Holidays Sox23 02:45, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

mello yello, socialities, etc

Some anonymous IP had deleted that entry, and I was not sure if it belonged there. Is it a joke? Anyway, I figured that, without justification, something should not be deleted by anonymous'es. i didn't look deeply into the history, nor did I investigate the situation further. is the joke on me? Is it vandalism? If it is, I put it Back in by accident! oops!--Rocketrye12 14:50, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Happy Gregorian New Year to you, too!

Thanks for the note! As for blocking policy, it is true that a user can edit his or her own userpage and talk page during the block. The reason for this is to allow the user to request that another admin review the block by placing a {{unblock}} template on the talk page. The language on the blocked page (which you can read here) says only that "abuse of this template" can result in the page being protected. However, users who use their talk/user pages for disruption while blocked (personal attacks, nonsense edits along the lines of "You can't stop me!", etc.) will end up with protected pages and possibly a longer block. Basic policies about blocking can be found at WP:BLOCK. If you've noticed a user under a block who is using his or her talk page in a disruptive manner, you can report it at WP:AIV and an admin will evaluate the situation. It's one of the areas of WP policy that's kinda vague and falls under the "I know it when I see it" category. (Unless I'm mistaken, and there's a page all about this that I have yet to discover.) I hope that helps; let me know if you want more information or links. Cheers. -- Merope 02:51, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi!

Please check your mail. – SAJordan _contribs 22:03, 29 Dec 2006 (UTC).

Obama

You're welcome to try listing at WP:RFP if you like. Frankly, I'm not sure if there's been enough recent activity (even with today's vandalism) for an admin assessing it to semi-protect. Maybe I'm wrong. A longer semi-protect would be my first choice, obviously. For that to happen, the article should probably remain unprotected until after Obama announces for '08 one way or another (January, hopefully) while the vandalism edits pile up. But a short term request for now might not be a bad idea. · j e r s y k o talk · 05:11, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Tvoz, I expect we are both looking for the same thing, perhaps we just have (only slightly) different philosophies about how to get there. I believe semi-protection status weakens the article's credibility and undermines Misplaced Pages's unique voice as the "💕 that anyone can edit". It's the main reason I consciously choose to make my contributions here, and not elsewhere. And when Misplaced Pages becomes a burden, I take a break from editing and trust others to do what's needed. Even with the increased activity, the Barack Obama article has been a supportive community, with plenty of good people who also value being given a chance to help out.

But let's not divert our energies in debating this. Let's just consider Robdurbar's suggestions and let things cool for now, OK? I can promise you that User:HailFire is one and my name is one, and I have never made an intentional IP edit. Perhaps I have done it once or twice, by mistake when not logged in, but never that I can recall to the Obama article. I hope this explains enough about me to reassure you that my motives are in good faith. Peace? --HailFire 19:28, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Your remark, questioned

You say that there are more of you with me than against me. And maybe you are right. But a third person just dropped by my user talk page to bitch me out, and it was Cberlet, with whom I have worked extensively, and always cooperatively, and have supported in several disputes, etc., and apparently he assumes that something I did in an effort to clean up before I cut back was a "horrifying" attack on him. Go figure. Sorry, but it's just gotten ugly here lately. There are a lot of good people, but even some of the good people seem to have lost the ability to assume that the other good people are acting in good faith. It's sad. I'm sad. And I'm still hoping I can stick around as a casual contributor. But if it turns out to mean being repeatedly kicked in the teeth, why would I want to do that? - Jmabel | Talk 05:46, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Macca

Hi, Tvoz. What's all this about the MBE? Bugger it, and fiddely-sticks... Great to see you're active on the pages BTW. Your humour, logic, and intelligence are very much appreciated. We have a great saying in northern England: "Don't let the bastards grind you down..." Have a really happy New Year's Eve. andreasegde 15:08, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

mystery user 208.120.27.201

i am reverting most of his changes. --Rocketrye12 18:44, 31 December 2006 (UTC) there was some misc. information that I think doesn't belong, but whatever. Josepher's changes are all good (I actually have gym with him, i just realized).

Okay, great, the BOE needs to be changed BACK to Dept. of Ed. This irritated me because when I first got to this page, I had changed it FROM BOE to Dept. of ED because i knew BOE was wrong. this 208. person changed it to BOE (check the logs). I'm not grumpy, I swear.--Rocketrye12 21:20, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

EDIT: we have a vandal, 70.23.151.198 . Are these incidente related? the antivandalbot was able to stop some of it, but I had to put the entier dress code section back. the fu***r deleted it!--Rocketrye12 21:25, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Kent State

Hey boss...I'm gonna call it a night (morning). Good debating you and I'm glad is hasn't gotten out of hand. Equinox137 10:59, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

I've made some more edits to KS after removing the NPOV tag. They're pretty minor to me, but please check them over and let me know if you disagree with any of them. Equinox137 09:34, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism on User:Specter01010

Hey Tvoz, thanks for reverting the vandalism on my page. Appreciate the help. --Specter01010 00:11, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I did WHOIS on 81.233.34.245, and by default, the varying IPs all came from Stockholm, Sweden. In this case, if 81.233.34.245 was blocked, users whom have/will use the IP address won't be able to contribute to Misplaced Pages. If the user does continue to vandalize, would it constitute a "softblock?" --Specter01010 01:28, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

a NON-WIKI question about 60s NYC radio

Promise - this has nothing whatsoever to do with anything on Misplaced Pages - just something I can't remember and thought an old Alex Bennett fan might recall .... do you remember which NYC radio dj/talk show guy used to say "Namaste" at the end of his show? This is driving me nuts - was it Leon Lewis? Thanks, if you recall. Best wishes Tvoz | talk 01:14, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

It was definitely a WMCA jock, and it was late 1960s, but I'd hesitate to say which. I thought Leon Lewis was the one who finished his show with a longish rap the tail end of which was "…and you don't eat chicken on Sundays." - Jmabel | Talk 04:53, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Obama

Sure, sounds good. Thanks, Khoikhoi 05:09, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

See my message on the RfC

|See Kundan After Sundown 05:50, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Response

Absolutely...I'm not pretending I tilt otherwise. With that tilt, I probably would never be a college student protesting any war (in fact, I've already have fought one and my youngers sister did a tour in Fallujah). Given that, along with my current occupation, the sentiment "that could have been me" comes almost daily.

I fully understand that some of the wounded and killed had notthing to do with the protests. It's also undisputed that the Ohio National Guard was extremely poorly trained to respond to such an incident. However, you pointed to the feelings that permeated the student movement of the 60s/70s such as "that could have been me" or "they're tyring to kill us/they can't kill all of us" - I look at it from their perspective being from that world (military and LE) and knowing first hand what feelings/mentality permeated among the troops and cops. They were reports of snipers. Although the were later apparently false, the responders on the ground didn't know that at that time. In any situation such as what happened there, there is no way of knowing if someone or people have weapons in that crowd, regardless of what the political flavor of the day is, whether it's flower children singing "Give Peace a Chance" or a Ku Klux Klan rally. There will always be people, regardless of what political flavor, willing to be violent to force what they want.

Anyway, If I'm in that situation and I even think I see a weapon pointed at me or my fellow officer/soldier - that subject's going down. All other questions can be asked later. It's better to be tried by 6 than carried by 12, when it boils down to it. In other words, I'm going home alive - and I'm sure those guardsmen had the same mentality.

As far as evidence being supressed - absolutely I think it's possible. However, I'm looking at it from the perspective of the officer/soldier on the ground at the time. Equinox137 06:41, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

By the way, I've always wanted to ask a Vietnam War-era protestor... What was unconstitutional, illegal, or immoral about the Vietnam War? Not to argue...I just want to understand. Equinox137 06:44, 4 January 2007 (UTC) PS... This is on the bottom of the page. HAHAHA! (KS isn't organized either way, but no biggie)

The Constitution quite clearly, and with great wisdom, states that 'Congress shall have the power to declare war'. War should not be entered into through a back door, or an executive order, or resolution - if we are going to put our soldiers in harm's way, and if we are going to invade, attack, or otherwise engage in war against another nation, the Constitution requires that a declaration of war come first. Why is this important? Because of checks and balances, because it is the most serious thing we can do as a nation. The current president often remarks that sending soldiers to war is the most awesome (in its negative sense) thing that a president does - and I don't think any of them do it lightly - but the bar is far too low and was in Vietnam. Congress never declared war then (and has not now). These are unconstitutional wars, and therefore also illegal. If they feel so strongly that a war is needed - and soldiers are likely to be sent to their deaths - then they owe it to us all to go through the process of real Congressional approval. There should be an overwhelming consensus that war is the only choice - I don't recall now (it's 3AM!) if the Constitution requires 2/3 or simple majority, but war is too serious a step to take without having Congress solidly behind it. As for immoral - there are so many reasons it was immmoral. We had not been attacked; it was essentially another country's civil war that we were intruding into, on the side of a propped-up government; the use of napalm; that we were not fighting against an army (not our fault, of course) so were indiscriminately killing civilians and destroying entire villages and the countryside in our desperate and impossible hope of defeating a guerilla enemy; our soldiers were largely drafted (which ties into why a declaration of war was so necessary) - they did not choose to fight in a cause they believed in, they were forced to by a government who allowed over 57,000 of them to be killed in, again, an illegal war that a large majority of Americans opposed; and the immorality of the draft was the way in which it targeted the poor and minorities who didn't have the knowledge or wherewithal to use the loopholes that existed and allowed some to get out of being drafted; the atrocities that occurred, My Lai being only one; and finally - although there are more reasons - it was immoral because it was unwinnable, and that was painfully apparent for many years, yet we continued on, killing more and more American soldiers - that is immoral. I'm afraid there are many parallels to today. but I am tired - it's late - and I also don't want to argue about this at all. Good "talking" with you. Tvoz | talk 08:34, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

You were tired, and you wrote that? Wonderful stuff. I doff my cap to you. andreasegde 19:25, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

POV Obama

Hey - I noticed that you'd reverted my additions to the Obama article referring to his supposed decision to run for president for the reason that they could be construed as POV. In reading the article, I was initially hesitant to post it on Misplaced Pages because of the nature of the topic and the fact that no major news networks had picked up the story nearly twenty-four hours after its release. Nevertheless, I think that the Sun Times is a fairly reputable source and was wondering what about the article was POV - besides of course, the columnists opinions. I think the wording I quoted in the article was particularly "fact-laden". However, I'm still open to hearing your reasoning and I'll leave the article as it is for now. Thanks :), Mrmaroon25 22:12, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, as you said, the link does not work, which I assure you was not the case when I posted the reference. So anyway, even if the article was NPOV, it doesn't matter anymore because it's not there. Thanks for the clarification! Mrmaroon25 22:30, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Just found this - would it qualify? Obama looks ready to run Mrmaroon25 07:02, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Absolutely. Mrmaroon25 07:30, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Lennon

I know you would like the 'mourned' phrase in, but it would need a strong citation to support it. Not everybody is a Lennon fan, and the top brass upstairs frown upon it.

I will tell you a true story though... Lennon was murdered on my birthday (Dec 8 1980) and I had a small party at my house. I went to bed about midnight, and heard about his death from the alarm clock/radio in the morning. I got up, went downstairs and looked at the record player. (Goose-bumps now...) Last record still on the turntable? The 'Imagine' album.. andreasegde 11:53, 5 January 2007 (UTC).

Good points, and spot on. I'm trying to make it look like the Macca page, but I'm having trouble. Kingboyk (admin) likes to have a paragraph as a short lead/overview to an article like 'Family life', and I have to agree.

I'll get out Cynthia's/Spitz's book tonight and start to add stuff about their (fairly miserable at times) marriage. andreasegde 17:26, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Look at the Macca history talk pages, and you will see that me and my pal Vera, Chuck and Dave seriously fell out with Kingboyk about how the Macca page is now, with us both wanting it to be chronological. We finally came around to realise that subjects are dealt with in sections (Kingboyk is an admin, after all, and has worked on a lot of FA articles). Anyway, we got up, dusted ourselves off and shook hands like the gentlemen we are. I now doff my cap to the bosses upstairs, and work on the articles as requested, which shows my working class roots, and my previous job as a percussionist... :) andreasegde 20:34, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I've got it! Slip it in the 'Memorials and tributes' section (said the bishop to the actress :). It deserves to be in there, at least. andreasegde 21:15, 5 January 2007 (UTC) I did it... andreasegde 21:22, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

The Beatles and forking articles

I have a problem that I would like to impart to all you good 'Beatles project' editors, and it is this:

• Should anything directly Beatles-related be in the main Beatles' article, and only 'personal' stuff put into the Lennon, McCartney, Harrison, and Starr articles? I have the disturbing feeling that I'm repeating stuff in both Lennon and McCartney articles that should only be in the main article.
• But... if only personal stuff is included in the individual Beatles' articles, would it make them too confusing/random, to read?

Please answer (on a stamped and self-addressed postcard please) on our talk page. (This might be more interesting than talking about MBEs... :) andreasegde, Mr Hornby, and Sir Sean de Garde 15:21, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes I was confused, but never mind. :) (BTW, don't answer this on my page, because I'm waiting for the gals and guys to answer, if they can get out of bed :)).

Q - Should I descend on The Beatles' page and add everything Beatle-ish with citations, and then only put really good, personal stuff in Lennon's, etc.? For example: Mimi threw a chicken and a hand-mirror at John because he bought a leather coat for Cynthia". "McCartney saw Lennon as the Emperor of his house whilst they were both on LSD." This is stuff that could never go on The Beatles page. Time to get the hair shirt out again... (Ouch...) andreasegde 22:14, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

well, yeah there's no point in having everything duplicated, for sure, and there;s no point in bogging down the Beatles article with little details about personal stuff, or bogging down the Lennon article with an exegesis (my $2 word of the day) on how high they all were when they met the Queen, but you can't have an article about Lennon without a decent section on the Beatles that is like a summary of the longer page, and you can't have a Beatles page without talking about Lennon when he was a Beatle. I think that the problem is that of course there's great overlap and forked off articles about a lot of Beatles stuff because there's a lot of ground to cover. But you still want someone to go to The Beatles and get more than a collection of "See main article" links to other pages. Tvoz | talk 22:38, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

It's about how much is duplicated that's 'niggling' me. There's a lot of really funny, and very interesting personal stuff about Lennon, but one feels that one has to (oh, very British) put the usual "went to Hamburg - Epstein worked at NEMS - Decca turned them down," etc. in the articles, which takes up valuable space (and starts to get a bit boring/irritating after the third read).

I suppose I'm toying with the idea that we should do all the factual stuff concerning all four of the Fabs on the main page, and then dig deeper on their 'personal' pages. I spotted some urban legends on the Aunt Mimi page, BTW. Shortly before she died she confessed that she, "had led a wicked life", and had been "a very cruel woman", which is fascinating stuff. (Do you know she rented out one room in her house to John and Cynthia?) If this all sounds like the ravings of a lunatic, please contact your local fish and chip shop and complain... andreasegde 05:59, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, personally I like that idea, and I totally agree with you that by the third time, even 2nd time, of reading the same thing you want to take a nap. And I agree that you don't need to go into the Epstein-Decca level details on the individual pages. I don;t know, maybe just referring people to the main Beatles article would work - it just seems a little odd to me to have a page about Lennon or Macca and just a little about the Beatles. Problem, to me, are the GA/FA expectations - if you want to know what I really think, I don't give a rat's ass about GA and FA, insofar as the length requirements restrict the quality of articles. I mean it's cool to get GA and FA, and it would be very cool (except for the vandals) to see these articles on the main page, but I think sometimes there's too much emphasis on trying to meet that goal and forcing cuts to some arbitrary length and a toning down of the kinds of things you might like to add, and maybe too much "sameness" between the articles in the interests of uniformity. But I'm willing to work on them with the GA/FA goal if that's what the group wants, so this is just what I really think. I haven't really looked at the recent stuff you've done - I will now - I've been busy arguing on the Cat Stevens page with a rather unpleasant guy who's accusing me of all sorts of untrue nonsense and is actually the one who is totally ignoring a hidden-text note asking editors to discuss before changing how the name should be rendered - classic POV pushing, and nasty too. So I welcome the opportunity to return to the beatles pages with sane people who don't view it as their mission in life to rid wikipedia of anything out of the ordinary and slime people on the way there.Tvoz | talk 06:31, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Good points, as always. Mr Fish-and-chip shop man 13:54, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Cat Stevens

Sorry you had to go through all that incivility. I've been completely disconnected from Misplaced Pages recently and I was overwhelmed when I got to the Cat Stevens talk page. Looks like things have settled down by the time I got here though. I mentioned that I support the current wording, looks like that's all the help that I can really offer right now. I didn't read through everything but it looks like I got the gist of it.

The actual article looks great though! I'm upset I can't be more apart of it as I used to be.

Keep up the good work, Tvoz,

Mrtea (talk) 16:10, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Survey concerning Cat Stevens/Yusuf Islam lead sentence.

Talk:Cat_Stevens#Survey: Ordering_of_names_within_lead_sentence

As an active editor at Cat Stevens, your input is requested for the purpose of establishing consensus. Italiavivi 00:44, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

RE:Obama

Ah yes, thanks for pitching in! Sorry for forgetting to notify you. Anyway, I don't agree with the "pitiful" assessment, but it could definitely be improved. What do you think of the new lead? Gzkn 03:42, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Huh...the signature thing is rather interesting, but I don't think it adds any real value to the article. Maybe someone is just going through and adding it to all the politician articles? I, too, feel that some of the information on his sponsored legislation and the like can be condensed, and some of the less important stuff eliminated. Otherwise, this is going to be one long article two or three years from now! Some of the long quotations could probably be trimmed as well. Gzkn 05:38, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, that was a rather amusing. Especially the long rant on the talk page. :) Gzkn 05:54, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

I think we may need to let that one cool for a while. I added a source that I thought covered the factual part of it without much bias (or at least that's how it read to me, I could be wrong about this). I'll try to do more to address imbalance concerns, I have some ideas. Keep up the great work. --HailFire 13:38, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

3 pence

"I inhaled", "Muslim school", and Iran sources now appear in article Notes with text intros. It's all in there, without punishing the article. You holding up OK with the big crowd? Hope so. --HailFire 01:18, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

14:11, 23 January 2007 Italiavivi (Talk | contribs) (Section is not restricted to what was in one book. Quote is notable, taped, and sourced; cease your edit-warring and take it to Talk, HailFire.) {sigh}... I thought I had taken it to Talk. Won't revert it myself as I don't want to risk feeding him. --HailFire 15:30, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

no-more-songs

would I know you from no-more-songs? Tvoz | talk 00:53, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Almost certainly. I'm a member of n-m-s. Malik Shabazz 01:33, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Lennon

Thanks (as always) for your comments, dearest Tvoz. I started work on it, and threw a load of stuff in, but I didn't really go through everything. I had an overload of pages (I was working on The Beatles, Macca and Lennon at the same time) and my brain crashed, so I went to the stubs to rebuild my original enthusiasm. (I'm really enjoying it, BTW.) Anyway, if there's anything you want to change, then you are the person to do it. Go for it... andreasegde 20:04, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

P.S. "Aunt Mater" is confusing, because 'Mater' means mother. She was Lennon's Aunt Elizabeth, but (like Mimi and Julia) she was known by another name - from Elizabeth to Betty, and then to Mater. Funnily enough, this never occured to me before, but your eagle-eyes spotted it (again) :) andreasegde 20:09, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Archive

I really hope that you are not angry, but I created some Archive pages for you. I didn't know how to do it a few months ago, so Crestville (Beatles member) did it for me. I am only passing on the same gift to you. Hope you don't mind. (Ouch!) Mr Fish-and-Chip shop man 22:26, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

No, absolutely I'm not angry - that's way cool! I never would have figured out how to do it. And, it'll be my birthday in 9 minutes, so I will accept it as my birthday present! NOw to find a few minutes to decie how much to archinve... Thanks! Tvoz | talk 04:54, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I 'borrowed' your "sense of humour" logo... andreasegde 22:18, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

I liked your original one a lot, but I thought that I should say something else, so as to make it different. Can I say something? (yes I will, anyway...) Please don't put yourself down (nicer person than I am) for example. I don't agree with that sort of thing - even though I am English. You're "right-on" Tvoz... :)

P.S. Have a look at Mimi Smith, and cast your eagle-eyes over it. Mr Humour-Humor-Hummer-Homer-Homer Simpson 00:29, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for the user talk cleanup. I don't like being harassed on my user talk page about something completely unrelated to Misplaced Pages, so it was nice to see you had re-deleted the text from that unregistered user. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 19:56, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Mimi Smith

I reviewed it as a B article, then I thought I'd 'jump in the deep end'. (I have nominated it for GA). To Hell with the doubters - let rip, unfurl the pennants, and 'strike while the iron's hot', as the boys and girls from the 'East Leeds Labour Club Pensioners International Line-dancing Formation Team' say (when they put their dentures in). Sir Sean de Garde and the other mob 02:01, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks Tvoz! Better late than never ;) · j e r s y k o talk · 14:11, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I know . . . I admit, though, that things feel a little different for me now that I have the tools. Before, there wasn't an admin watching the Obama page as far as I knew, so we had to beg for protection. Now, all I'll have to do is click the little protect tab. Anyway, we're still in agreement, I think, on the prospects of increasing vandalism on the page. But HailFire et al have a point. Cheers. · j e r s y k o talk · 22:50, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Troz

Pinky what exactly is Troz? H2P 23:57, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Ha, nevermind, I read your name wrong. It's a quote from a TV show. Just ignore this, delete it if you want. I'm in a very boring class now and took the first distraction I could see. H2P 00:07, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

May Pang

Have a look at my talk page, because some vandal has added comments to yours that make you look bad. (Ba*ta*d!) I will delete them soon (you can delete them yourself if you want) but I will also post a note on the May Pang page, which is also being attacked. (Thanks for the work on Mimi, BTW.) andreasegde 19:51, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

I have tried to protect May Pang, but it doesn't seem to work. Can you help? andreasegde 20:04, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Warning users

Please do not apply {{blatantvandal}} tags to users which just made typos. That completely defeats the purpose of the tag. It inflames (or in the best case scenario, inflames them) unnecessarily, and scares off good users. Even if the purpose of that edit had been to test editing privileges, it does not warrant a {{bv}} by any means. Titoxd 06:43, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Barack Obama FAR

FYI. --HailFire 18:47, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Re: going crazy

If you edit two political articles, that's one more than I can bear! But music article editing drove me into an attempt at retiring from Misplaced Pages, one that I currently seem to be failing at ... Wasted Time R 04:49, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

I have no problem with using HRC's interpretation of VRWC. I wasn't aware that Cat Stevens had edit battles ... I did substantial work on Father and Son (song) and The First Cut is the Deepest, those were fun articles, especially finding the P.P. Arnold original of the latter, which I'd never heard before. Song and tour articles often avoid the stresses of the higher-profile album and main articles. Use to work on the solo Beatles articles but back then the churn and vandalism was too much. Would like to do something on the Beatles tour articles, it's a neglected area. Wasted Time R 05:16, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Bill Clinton protection

Okay, semi-protected. I don't know why VoA declined at the time, but it currently looks like it needs to protection. Nishkid64 22:55, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Since I'm not particularly sure how long we'll need this, I did not specify an expiry date for the protection. Nishkid64 19:59, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Dealing with unsigned messages

There's a useful template for these: Template:unsigned. Just add {{unsigned|USERNAME}}. :) Gzkn 05:03, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Andy Kaufman Edit

I was asking for a cite that Kaufman didn't self-identify as a comedian. From what I understood, that wasn't particularly true. While some called him a performance artist, he certainly didn't take that title, and I would be surprised if he didn't prefer comedian.WoodenTaco 16:02, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Regarding Warnings on the IP vandalizer of Bill Clinton's page

Hi there Tvoz, I actually did not use a template, but a script from: http://en.wikipedia.org/User:Voice_of_All/UsefulJS#Non-admin_RC_Patrol_JS_.28Stand-alone.29 .

Glad to be of any help. Sir Vicious 21:31, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Paul McCartney

I have nominated it for FA. andreasegde 22:09, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

I think that is called "bad form" by one seriously English editor, but I have never seen a rule about it. I believe the 'unwritten rule' is to stop overly-interested editors from "stuffing ballot boxes" by making comments like, "I think it's Fab, 'cos my dad said so." The editor/editors of an article are asked to leave their own opinions on the FA Nom pages, BTW.

As we are all reasonably adult (apart from the insane humour, of which I approve) I see no reason why we can not be level-headed decent human beings, and allowed to leave our well-considered comments on the FA page. andreasegde 08:30, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

re Misplaced Pages:Smokers

I came across this page and felt inclined to comment on the talkpage. I then read back and noticed your comments. Are you still unhappy about this page? If you are then I will unwatch it (it isn't as if I am looking for more exchanges of opinion). LessHeard vanU 20:20, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Cool. I was entering into the debate, citing Harrison as someone whose smoking habit directly effected his health/demise and which is included in his article, as an exception to the 'no comment' suggestion. I can't think of a way to divert that into an attack on the pages (quasi)originator...

...for the moment. LessHeard vanU 20:48, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Songs

You're going to kick yourself for this, but look at Northern Songs... andreasegde 22:44, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Ah-hah! Now I see what you're getting at. Well-spotted, Oh venerable eagle-eyed one. Give me 10 minutes or so, and I will check it out. andreasegde, your on-line citation inspector. (That sounds like 'sanitation' inspector :) Give me a tick, as they say... (sound of pages rustling.) andreasegde 23:24, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Get ready...

James suggested a long-term contract to Epstein for Len and Mac, instead of the usual song-by-song contract. Spitz 365. (The usual song-by-song contract gave James 100% of publishing and 50% of royalties, but only for one song at a time.)

James suggested 50% for him for publishing and 50% for royalties, meaning 25% each for Len and Mac for publishing, and 25% each for royalties. Epstein’s 25% would come off both Len and Mac’s income. Spitz 365.

The deal meant that James had to buy out ‘Lenmac’ which was a holding company formed by Epstein that held 59 Fabs songs. Spitz 365

Len and Mac were obliged to write only 6 songs a year for the next four years. They did more, of course. Spitz 365 (Epstein nearly "jumped in James' arms" because he thought it was a great deal.)

George Martin said that anybody who signed a contract like that today would be “an idiot”. (He forgot the shit deal when he signed them to Parlophone/EMI, didn’t he?) Spitz 365

It later went on the stock market and Goerge and Ringo were given some small percentage, but I haven’t got to that bit yet. Martin was also offered a share when it went public, but turned it down, as it conflicted with his EMI interests. What a dope, or a gentleman…

andreasegde 23:50, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, he could have been a gazillionaire too. (But he probably is, isnt he?) I don't think we need to go into too much detail, at least not on Beatles or McCartney pages, just have the right names attached. Northern, I guess, could have some detail. Tvoz | talk

If the deal was with L&M why did Harrison publish with them? Was there a separate deal? The main article mentions that Harrison and Starr created their own publishing companies when the Northern Songs contract expired... In any event, please remember that the Beatles had 3.1/2 songwriters within the group. LessHeard vanU 00:04, 28 January 2007 (UTC) (I am repeating bits of what I have written at Aunty Drears page; except the Ringo slander.)

Aunty Drears? You cheeky monkey....

Anyway: The contract was only for 4 years, after which Starr and Harrison set up their own companies. They didn't write much before then so it was good for them. Len and Mac went for the whole hook, line and sinker routine, and signed for more years. So:

For every 100 Dollars income (for publishing income or royalties income:

James got 50 Dollars

Lennon got 18.75 Dollars

McCartney got 18.75 Dollars

Epstein got 12.50 Dollars (Which was his management percentage from any income the Fabs earned.)

Result? 100 Dollars.

andreasegde gets fu#k all 00:10, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

I forgot: Group decisions were the norm, but not when it came to BIG money... Not a pot to p#ss in 00:10, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

I need to have dinner - my brain isn't working. Didn't you mean 50% to James for publishing, 50% to lenmac, then the Lenmac further divided btwn Epstein Lennon and Mac? Dinner. definitely. Tvoz | talk 00:19, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Publishing contracts:

A normal contract is 60-40, 70-30, or 80-20 (depending on the level of exertion a publisher is committed to, like getting out of bed in the morning.) Royalties are the big thing (radio plays) because publishing is just music books/sheets, which nobody wants anymore. (Me again).

Timothy Hutton

Hi Tvoz, nice to hear from you. Your addition to Timothy Hutton looks spot-on to me. Hope you're doing well. Cheers Rossrs 08:28, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

sorry, tvoz

where should i fit in that gangs article? i'm collaborating with Bellagio. feel free to join in. --rocketrye12 05:25, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Done

I redirected Sr.'s article to Jr's. I don't know much about Sr.'s work as an economist, though, and if that work is encyclopedic, of course an article could be written. But the article wasn't worth keeping as it was. · j e r s y k o talk · 00:25, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Obama semi-protection

I would love to reach a consensus with you about this. During the recently concluded FAR, I felt it was helpful to "close the room" for some time so we could collectively get safely past that editorial challenge. This, and my respect for your view, was the reason I stayed silent about lifting sprot through the first weeks of January. Now with the closure of the FAR and a lapse of over one week since the last sprot was applied, I just wanted to make my preferences known to Jersyko. Of course, it is an Admin decision to lift the sprot, I was just letting him know I favored the idea.

Regarding February, I didn't intend to be secretive about my motivations. As you suggested, we can expect more visitors to the Obama page if/once the candidacy is formalized, with the likelihood that some of these people will be newcomers to Misplaced Pages. I'd prefer that the Obama article has a low incidence of vandalism then, as first impressions can count for a lot, and promoting Misplaced Pages is something I care about. I can appreciate the view that we may need sprot from time to time to discourage vandalism (though I am not convinced that applying sprot actually works over the longer term, as those intent on making trouble will always come up with new ideas). But I also consider it likely (for reasons of prevailing Misplaced Pages policy against applying sustained and preemptive protection) that sprot will never be permanently applied to the Obama article. I also remain hopeful that maximum openness might inspire maximum good faith among all editors.

I think you know it is unusual for me to continue at length about my views in any talk page posting (I don't aim to frustrate anyone, it is just my introverted nature to be that way). I am making an exception here because of the respect I have for your commitment, contributions, and continuing collaboration. Can we find middle ground? --HailFire 12:31, 1 February 2007 (UTC)