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Revision as of 01:52, 4 November 2006 editTankred (talk | contribs)7,836 edits →Adoption: I would like to ask you to remove a personal attack against me and other two users from your userpage.← Previous edit Latest revision as of 15:21, 1 February 2007 edit undoWerdnabot (talk | contribs)60,702 editsm Automated archival of 24 sections to User:VinceB/Blabla 
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==Welcome!==

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==Juro==
As a clerk to the Arbitration Committee I've removed your application for arbitration on the subject of ]. Please check that you have followed all reasonable steps of ] and that you follow the instructions on ] in creating an application. --] 02:57, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

: I've now created the arbitration case and informed ]. --] 16:21, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

== Magyar őshaza ==

Szia Vince. I noticed that you moved ] to ]. I don't think that was the best thing to do, because one should remember that this is ], and the average English speaker isn't going to understand Hungarian. Would you mind if I move the page back? Thanks. &mdash;<span style="font-family:Palatino Linotype">]</span> 18:44, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

:No, "]" is an English word that comes from German, and it describes a ''sepcific'' type of homeland, a ] one. The title "" would be too vague and receives a low amount of Google hits. Next time you want to rename a page, please go to ]. Thanks.

:BTW, I'm not so sure if ] (#1 on ]) and ] (#2 on ]) are the same thing.... &mdash;<span style="font-family:Palatino Linotype">]</span> 20:11, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

==Possible vandalism and personal attack==
I would like to kindly ask you to refrain from blanking whole paragraphs, erasing the statistical data you do not like, and changing numbers, as you did . Please, use the talk page before you make such a substantive change. Other people may consider your behavior vandalism.

Although this is an unrelated issue, I must say that I am quite surprised by your . First, I cannot be a Slovak nationalist because I am of mixed origin. Second, I am usually trying to reach consensus or at least compromise in sensitive issues. Btw, guess who added sections about ethnic minorities and multi-ethnic character to the articles about Slovakia, such as ] and ]. Yes, it was me, a "Slovak nationalist". Third, most of the articles I have edited are completely unrelated to Hungary and Hungarians. I am creating and expanding articles about towns, castles, and mountains in Slovakia, cleaning up categories in international relations, reverting vandalism in hundreds of articles. Just check my . I am aware that your personal attack appeared after I disagreed with your Request of Arbitration against Juro (which was by the clerk anyway), but I really did not expect such a move from your part. I do not remember any personal dispute with you and I do not desire to initiate any. I have no interest in your petty conflicts with other Wikipedians. Have a good day. ] 16:35, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

==???==
What you want to tell me? That "your" encyclopaedia humana should be only source that we should use and that no other source should be used at all, right? ] ] 21:03, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

:What my statements you refering to? And one more thing: please do not change my maps. If you think that any of my maps is wrong, just tell me that, and I will correct it, ok? ] ] 21:32, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::And did you saw this map: http://en.wikipedia.org/Image:Hungarian_migration03.gif Compare the two, and you will see that even your "holy bible" (encyclopaedia humana) map have a arrow pointing that Hungarians moved to Bashkiria from the east side of Urals. What is problem then? Yugra is name used for that territory in medieval Russian chronicles and is used today too and refering to land of Ugric peoples. ] ] 21:40, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

:::I will correct "Slovakia1850 02.png" map, be patient a little, and as I said, I will correct the maps, you just tell me if something is wrong on them, ok? ] ] 21:43, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Well, check this map again: http://en.wikipedia.org/Image:Hungarian_migration03.gif Name for the land east of Ural mountain on that map is "Magyar Oshaza", which do not mean Ugric homeland, but Hungarian homeland. However, I changed the map about Hungarian migration, and it now say: "Yugra (Ugric homeland)" Also, name Bashkiria is an anachronism in the time when we speak about Magna Hungaria (Bashkiria did not existed back then), so this name should not be used on map. And regarding maps, I really do not like when somebody else change them, so I believe it is a matter of your own decency to discuss changes on maps with me first, because I will revert any change on these maps which I consider wrong. In fact, if you want to contribute here with maps, rather draw your own instead to destroy work of others. ] ] 21:56, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I deleted "your" map. You changed few letters on map, and you claim that it is "your"? Try to draw entire map (to draw borders, to paint it, to draw arrows, etc), and then claim that it is your. Because of the people like you, I will consider to change copyright tags on my maps in the future from "public domain" to someting else that is not free for changing. ] ] 22:15, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::::::And by the way, I changed the map in the way you wanted, so what is problem really? ] ] 22:16, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

==Another personal attack==
Please see Misplaced Pages's ] policy. Comment on ''content'', not on the contributor; personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that continued personal attacks may lead to ] for disruption. Please ] and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you. <!-- Template:No personal attacks (npa2) -->
I used this official template because my last reminder did not work. You attacked me in your edit summary: "response because cronologically happened after it ! They were bantered up by the the hungarian beatings in Slovakia. And the flag-burning, and other staff ''yours'' did (emphasis added)." I have never been involved in any act of flag-burning and I have never supported such activities. Please, refrain from making personal accusatory comments. ] 23:20, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

==Your personal attacks from September 12==
Please do not make personal attacks on other people. Misplaced Pages has a policy against ]. In some cases, users who engage in personal attacks may be ] from editing by administrators or ] by the ]. Comment on content, not on other contributors or people. Please ] appropriately. Thank you. <!-- Template:Npa3 -->

This is your last warning before I ask administrators for help. You accused me of POV pushing that did not occur perhaps in order to undermine my credibility. But all edits are archived, VinceB. Here are my only edits of the concerned section: , , . I did not delete anything. I moved the whole section to a new paragraph and I added information about the official police investigation that ''you'' immediately erased. I even encouraged Zello to add information about the girl's version (which contradicts the official version that I added).

You also accused me of calling you 'a sockpuppet, a vandal, a nationalist, whatever and blured with those, who scandaled "death to the slovakians"'. I have never called you sockpuppet. I only said that there is some evidence indicating that ] might have used sockpuppets. Assuming that you are not User:Árpád, I do not understand your accusation. I warned you that your behavior (you initially blanked whole paragraphs without suggesting such a significant change on a talk page) may be considered vandalism by other users. I do not remember any occasion when I called you a nationalist. And I have never implied that you belong to the group, which yelled "Death to Slovaks" in a Hungarian soccer stadium. If you have any evidence of my alleged personal attacks against you, please provide it. Otherwise, your accusation is a personal insult. ] 16:38, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

== My RfA ==

{| style="border:1px solid black; background:#FFFFCC; padding:3px;" align=center
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| Thank you for participating in my ], which passed with a tally of '''91/1/4'''. I can't express how much it means to me to become an administrator. I'll work even more and harder to become useful for the community. If you need a helping hand, don't hesitate to contact me. ] <sub> ]</sub> 15:28, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
|}
== From Misplaced Pages:Personal attack intervention noticeboard ==

This situation is more complex than that which can be dealt with within the auspice of that notice board. Dispute resolution is strongly recommended. - ]<span class="plainlinks"> </span> 11:54, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

== Moved from user page to talk ==

;] case
{| align="left"
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You have been accused of ]. Please refer to ] for evidence. Please make sure you make yourself familiar with ] before editing the evidence page. ] 01:42, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

:::Hello VinceB. I've briefly discussed this with Tankred, and encourage you to take this not as a personal attack, but as a genuine concern expressed by an editor who has the best interest of Misplaced Pages in mind. The best way to handle issues of suspected multiple accounts is via a ]. Then any suspicions will (probably) be laid to est and everyone can get back to writing articles. - ]<span class="plainlinks"> </span> 23:01, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

== Blocked ==

] '''Blocked:''' You have been blocked for 24 hours for using sockpuppets to edit war and violate the ], as determined by checkuser at ]. Edit warring is not an approved method of editing, and neither is logging out to avoid being caught. If you have concerns about article content you should follow the steps of the ] process such as third opinion, request for comment, or mediation. ] 15:28, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
== User:Slovan ==

You just blocked my roommate for indef. <small>Yes, I live in a college</small> --] 01:30, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

And as far as I know, logging in is not a must. I wrote the sign on my userpage that "''I nearly always do anonim edits instead of using this account''" so accusing me of sockpuppetry or such assumpion that I wanted to avoid the 3RR is false. A: I'm not the only one making contribs from Hungary B: I always stopped at the limit. <small>Check it leisurely.</small> But yes, that's true that I'm quite short tempered. I learned the lession abt this. All what is proven is that I wrote a true sentence on my userpage. And I got a block for it. pff...--] 01:36, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

:Well, your roommate can post to his own talk page even while blocked. He can post {{tl|unblock}} and give a reason. The roommate excuse is frequently given, sometimes it is true and sometimes not. I would like the case to reviewed by someone else. Of course, your roommate's account was recognized by users familiar with your editing habits; if he had different interests, no one would have had the idea to check. As far as editing while logged out is concerned, it's not really sockpuppet behavior, but if it is done to avoid accountability for 3RR or other problems then it's wrong no matter what it is called. I will keep an eye on your talk pages to see what other editors think. ] 02:09, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

::As to the Slovan account, let us compare Slovan's edit with the previous edit by VinceB's puppet 195.56.224.133 . They are the same. Both Slovan and the puppet appeared to support VinceB's particular point of view against PANONIAN. As for the allegedly legitimate anonymous edits, VinceB refused my suspicion that he/she had ever used the 195.56... IPs and he/she even called my initiation of the formal CheckUser procedure a "personal attack" . For being one of two editors who exposed the connection between VinceB, Slovan, and the IPs, I have been harassed at Misplaced Pages:Personal attack intervention noticeboard and Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents. The "personal attack warning" templates have been placed by VinceB on my talk page. I will quote VinceB's reason: "''I know that I didn't used sockpuppets, beause I has a username here.''" Please compare it with the present version "''I nearly always do anonim edits instead of using this account''". In other words, after the CheckUser confirmed his/her sockpuppetry, VinceB's version of the events was changed from not knowing the 195.56...s into using them in a benign way. I am sorry, but I do not buy it. The use of sockpuppets to vandalize articles and to create impression that a controversial edit is supported by more than one editor is not legitimate at all in my opinion. Therefore, I must oppose any relaxation of the measures (unblocking Slovan). On the other hand, I would like to believe that VinceB has learnt his/her lesson and his/her future edits will be more constructive. ] 21:51, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

We live in the same flat. I spoke about you and your behaviour. Of course we share opinions in some ways. Tankred, you are simply ] now. --] 12:09, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

] is your or PANONIAN's sock/meatpuppet? --] 17:44, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

:I have never used any sockpuppets, but feel free to initiate the CheckUser procedure to prove it. After I reviewed Otu2's edits, I am pretty sure that even the country of our IPs will be different. I would like also to recommend you not to delete relevant information, such as a note explaining why the number of Hungarians living in a city increased from 8% to 40% in 30 years , a well-sourced description of a political party as nationalist by leading political science journals (e.g. Party Politics) and mainstream media (e.g. BBC), or the historical context of the current events. If you keep going in this way, I will have to ask a third party to review your disruptive edits. Please, do not forget, that you have already been blocked for sockpuppetry and you have a long record of vandalism and personal attacks (up to Npa3). Please, learn a lesson from your last block and try to be more constructive. ] 19:54, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

] This is your '''last warning'''. <br>The next time you ] a page, you ''will'' be ] from editing Misplaced Pages. <!-- Template:Test4 (Fourth level warning) -->
*You have received many warnings in the past. You cannot just blank whole paragraphs, including numerical data, because of your political views. And why are you constantly erasing geographic names? This is an English Misplaced Pages and you should use English geographic names, not the Hungarian ones. This is really your last warning before I ask administrators for help. You are wasting time of other editors which could be spent on writing articles. ] 20:09, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
== Blocked 48 hours ==

<div style="clear: both"></div>{{{1|] }}}'''You have been temporarily ] from editing for vandalism of Misplaced Pages.''' Please note that page blanking, addition of random text or spam, deliberate misinformation, privacy violations, and other deliberate attempts to disrupt Misplaced Pages are considered ]. If you wish to make useful contributions, you may come back after the block expires. <!-- Template:Test5 -->

This block is primarily for edit warring after a previous block and repeated warnings. There is an open debate about blanking such notices from one's user talk page, so I do not name these blankings as a reason for blocking. However, in more general terms, that sort of blanking doesn't really gain you anything - I still read the posts through the page history and it didn't look good when I searched for mitigating factors that might shorten or negate the block.

I hope in the future you'll use your knowledge of Hungarian history to improve pages - the English language edition of Misplaced Pages could certainly use such help. Unfortunately it doesn't aid the project or English-only readers to change names into versions that rarely get used in this language. Respectfully, ''']''' 21:52, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

I used talk pages wich were '''ignored''' by ]. He deliberately uses very emotional words and phrases wich (in enwiki) istantly creates a negative image about me, without knowing the ongoing situation between us. And makes a false image about me and abt the backround of my contribs (for ex: ''well known vandal''). I already sent him warning templates to stop calling me a vandal. I'm not able to discuss with him, because he's not talking with me, I always tried to find a solution. Check anywhere. He clearly stated hatred against me several times, and he wants to kick me out of english wikipedia to defend his fakes and lies. (I proved that they are fakes and lies.) (He also faked a source) Not negotiating, not talking just attacking. His first edit on my discussion page was similar. My contribs are all were sourced, I wrote it on his discussion page also, and in the articles (as refs). Deleting them is vandalism. Check.

B: I wrote on my userpage on ''sept 5''. that I do mainly anonim edits. Then he accused me of sockpuppetry on'' oct. 10'' for using IPs. pfff I was clearly stated it on my talkpage. My roomate was blocked indef. Thanks to ''Tankred'' he does not want to participate in this wikipedia anymore. --] 14:14, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Since I believe that VinceB's arguments are a bit misleading and his accusations against me unsubstantiated, I must briefly comment on them. As for his sockpuppetry confirmed by ChceckUser, a biref overview of the case can be found . As for the previous vandalism, all VinceB's edits and the warning templates that he removed from his talk page can be traced back. Just to give you a handful of examples, he has blanked whole paragraphs, changed geographic names into their Hungarian version (hiding all the official non-Hungarian names), and made subtle nasty changes of numerical data. After he was warned, he just pasted the same warning templates to the talk pages of ] and me. He has also made failed attempts to use the formal procedures against at least three different users who disagreed with his disruptive edits (reporting false incidents, vandalism, personal attacks, and initiating investigation or arbitration). All those attempts failed and VinceB has been blocked by two previously uninvolved admins for sockpuppetry and edit warring. As for the alleged "fake source", this accusation by VinceB's sockpuppet (and now repeated by the puppetmaster himself) is non sense and I do not understand what he means by it. He does not like the descripion of ] as a nationalist party, but this description is now supported by four references to the leading academic journals and BBC. Neither of them is "fake" and this fact can be easily proven. Please, do not unblock VinceB. Normal editors of the articles about Central Europe need some rest. ] 18:54, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

I gave sources (-s!) for all of these. You? Not. For Didesz, yes but you mislead that (or with a stronger word: faking that). That's the point. Normal editors of the articles about Central Europe need some rest, so you should calm down and stop this disguisting broadside against me. --] 04:46, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

== Segitség ==

Juro megint akaratoskodik. Letörölte az írásomat a ]-ról, és mindezt magarázat nélkül (jellemzö rá). Kérlek segíts! ] 19:07, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

{{unblock reviewed|Hey, stop this, please, and please take the time to understand the ongoing situation. I've already asked for a third opinion, but it was deleted. How to dissolve this, if all of my tryings on talk pages are ingnored/deleted, and I got blocked? Yo do not even wait for my replies. What a malicious method! On the other hand, those two are why not blocked for edit waring? Thus not me was the one, who started. See dates. I several times proved, the slides abt me before, but you still believe those, instead of the facts How many more times should I prove them to believe me (the facts) ???|decline=Block shortened on appeal by ]&nbsp;(]{{·}}&nbsp;]) below. -- <small><span style="border: 1px solid">]]</span></small> 14:39, 25 October 2006 (UTC)}}

On the other hand, you may edit the page also. It's not mine. But note, the far right is very very divided, and often hates each other. (for ex: ] & ]) An MIÉP and Jobbik and other ("real") nationalist parties describe fidesz as leftist and more often treasonous party (no need to go further , for ex) On the third hand, I am concerned, that you and (Tankred also) are mixing ] with ], since the first one is not an established concept in Central Europe, and frequently mixed with nationalism. --] 17:12, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

== Blocked for 1 week ==

Since the last block expired you've done very little other than blank my previous block notice, resume edit warring, and lodge block a request at ] against other editors. If other editors do behave improperly then you're welcome to post a request in the usual places such as ] and ]. However, your actions have the appearance of a retaliatory attempt at petitioning unfamiliar administrators to block particular editors and of attempting to disguise your own history of warnings and blocks.

Blocks tend to get longer and more frequent when objectionable behavior continues with no sign of improvement. Per ], you could be subject to a topic ban or site ban if this goes on. I recommend you seek a mentor from ]. The topics where you edit seem to be important to you and I'd rather see you develop into a productive editor. Respectfully, ''']''' 17:25, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
:The deletion of your request at ] was done by an uninvolved editor in good standing, who explained the decision in the edit note ''removed trolling.'' I reviewed that user's last 500 edits and saw nothing about Hungarian nationalism, but did see numerous housekeeping edits to various pages. ''']''' 17:35, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Then how to dissolve this problem if I can't write it there? Where to ask for? Note, that I am able to play out the block(s), but I never did it. I always made '''referenced edits''', I ''showed my references'' to those two also, see their discussion pages. I several times clearly proved how misleading their interpretations of this situation, and the describing of me, and my behaviour. Thus, I'm the one, who's edit waring and adding nonsense (sic!)... those two not even warned. Or at least asked for a source to verify their statements... --] 17:39, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
:I'd be willing to shorten your block to 48 hours if you agree to the following:
:*Enter Misplaced Pages's mentorship program.
:*File a formal mediation request for your dispute.
:*Leave messages, warnings, and block notices on your talk page (with reasonable exceptions - if someone uses obscenity then of course it's fine to refactor or delete).
:If that sounds fair to you, please respond. ''']''' 17:42, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
::BTW your edits weren't always referenced, and in one instance I noticed since your last block you removed a citation request template without supplying a citation. ''']''' 17:44, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

1: never heard abt metorship before, but sure, ok
2: Sure, I've tried the third view yesterday, but was deleted calling it "trolling". (why?) What's the assurance, that it wont be deleted for the same reason from other places?
3: I've seen that many user talkpages are rubber friendly, there's even a template for those, but I was unable to find it so I simply stated it here. I didn't knew that it is instead illegal.

OK, I revert template and warning parts on my talkpage. Note, I replied on all of them, giving disproofs for most of them. (but those were ignored, and I didn't knew that time, where to report - still not really, as can be seen on ].) I several times lost in wikipedia administration, so I would be happy, if you help me getting to the right pages, places and methods. Thus, I see this one sided. We three are all dirty in the equal size. I'm not the only "bad guy" in this case. I can not understand, why all my actions were ignored peviously.

In one phrase: absolutely OK, but I need assistance. Thanks. --] 17:57, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

=== Block shortened to 48 hours ===

Okay, I've shortened your block. You can request mediation here: ]. Your mentor should be able to answer most of your questions about navigation and site policies. Note that you have to request the mentor. I already posted the link above. You might also like to read the essay ], which I created after a long conflict at my first article.

A good number of editors have some trouble when they first join Misplaced Pages. I hope you'll give this your best effort and act on advice and guidance from experienced editors. Check back with me in a month at my user page. I'll review your activity and if it looks like you've turned things around I'll post a follow-up note of support here at your talk page. Best wishes, ''']''' 18:44, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
:About the ] request, it probably got a bad response because it looked like an aggressive petition for administrative action rather than a request for impartial feedback. You'll get better results with mediation if you read the archives and imitate successful examples. Also, a note offering the olive branch to the other editors in this dispute would be a good move. ''']''' 19:37, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

== Hi Vince ==

I've received some serious allegations at my user talk page. What do you have to say about them? ''']''' 17:03, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

== Adoption ==

Hello, {{BASEPAGENAME}}! I see that you have expressed an interest in being ] by an experienced editor. I accept your request, being an experienced editor myself. Whether you want to learn about wiki markup, find something to do, or just talk to somebody, I'm the one you can talk to - just leave a message on my ]. Good luck with Misplaced Pages! ] 03:59, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
:Of course I'll still adopt you. Working with non-controversial editors is nice, but I'd be hapy to help you too. It seems there's been a good amount of POV pushing between you and other users. My advice is to steer clear of the users you've been having problems with, and remember that they are not ], they are just trying to do what's best for wikipedia. I advise that you read ] for tips in how to make sure POV conflicts don't pop up. I'm not taking sides in this dispute, but I'll help mediate it if necessary. --] 02:07, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Jó ez az adopció? ] 14:36, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

==Your userpage==
VinceB, may I ask you to remove the personal attack "''Some agressive guys, who simply lost their mind in these cases, and misleads everybody, shouting vandal at anybody, who do not share their (false) ideology : User:Tankred, User:PANONIAN, User:Juro''" from your userpage, please? Thank you in advance. ] 01:52, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 15:21, 1 February 2007

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