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Rob Roy McGregor (admiral)

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Rob Roy McGregor (admiral) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:BASIC. Awards do not meet #1 of WP:ANYBIO, source analysis follows:

Source assessment table

Source	Independent?	Reliable?	Significant coverage?	Count source toward GNG?
https://archive.org/details/luckybag1929unse	U.S. Naval Academy yearbook, with profiles of students		alumni profile written in tongue in cheek style	✘ No
https://www.newspapers.com/image/52687379/			Wedding announcement with 2 sentences about him	✘ No
http://www.fleetorganization.com/subcommandersclassyear2.html		Page is a glorified blog	Page merely lists commanders and their commands	✘ No
https://www.newspapers.com/image/391116990/			Newspaper story only viewable through subscription	? Unknown
https://www.newspapers.com/image/268592229/			Newspaper story only viewable through subscription	? Unknown
https://newspaperarchive.com/coronado-eagle-and-journal-aug-11-1955-p-3/			Newspaper story only viewable through subscription	? Unknown
https://newspaperarchive.com/newport-mercury-and-weekly-news-jun-26-1953-p-3/			Newspaper story only viewable through subscription	? Unknown
https://valor.militarytimes.com/hero/55088		Debatable if Miltary Times is RS	Page simply contains his 3 Silver Star citations	✘ No
https://www.newspapers.com/image/456344461/			Newspaper story only viewable through subscription	? Unknown
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0570016/		IMDB is not considered RS	Mere listing for his role as a technical consultant	✘ No
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.

Mztourist (talk) 11:59, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. Mztourist (talk) 12:10, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
• Delete Doesn't in my view meet standards as noted by nom. Intothatdarkness 17:07, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

Comment as the page had been ref-bombed by its creator, I have updated the source table above and continue it below from ref 11. As can be seen this is a collection of snippets with nothing significant and in-depth about him:

Source assessment table

Source	Independent?	Reliable?	Significant coverage?	Count source toward GNG?
Register of Commissioned and Warrant Officers of the United States Navy and Marine Corps	U.S. Navy publication		mere listing of promotions and commands, this applies to 6 refs in total	✘ No
https://www.newspapers.com/image/635175589/			Newspaper story only viewable through subscription	? Unknown
United States Submarine Operations in World War II			Unable to access and assess	? Unknown
http://www.lisbonmaru.com/	Page is to support sale of a book	Page is a blog	Can't see him mentioned anywhere	✘ No
Results of U.S. Submarine War Patrols	U.S. Navy publication		Unable to access and assess, presumably just a listing	✘ No
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.

I will never understand, if I write down information that isn't cited you would complain. So I cite the information I am adding and now I am being accused of "ref-bombing." I am only adding sources that support the material in the article. True not all of them lend to his notability, but they do lend to facts in the article. You only seem to be satisfied if the article is on the path to deletion, and don't really care about creating an encyclopaedia. McGregor in just about every book I have about the submarines in the Pacific Theatre, he is notable if you recognise it or not. Jamesallain85 (talk) 19:03, 5 December 2021 (UTC)

• Keep I can understand why this article was listed for discussion in the first place, but I am taking the time to develop the article. Still being the target of Mztourist, I am not surprised he is trying to discredit every source regardless if it is from online or from my personal library, but I would also like to remind everyone that a physical source or source requiring a subscription should not be discredited just because Mztourist cannot evaluate it. I will take time to develope the article further, I have a lot more information still to add. Jamesallain85 (talk) 14:05, 5 December 2021 (UTC)

Perhaps if you bothered creating detailed pages with reliable sources from the outset rather than a lot of minimally-referenced stubs as you have done they wouldn't be put up for deletion. All you have done with your massive refbombing is add a lot of snippets and side detail about submarines patrols rather than offer any indepth coverage about him. If he was actually notable there should be indepth coverage of him, but there clearly isn't. Mztourist (talk) 03:04, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

If you wish I can start AFDing your minimally referenced stubs, there are plenty of them. You should take the time to fix your own articles before pointing your finger at someone else. It's funny, every time I AFD one of your articles you sit around and scream foul while AFDing everything else under the sun. I literally AFDed an article you wrote without a single source, remember? You just sat around screaming it was out of revenge, yet here we are again. You might want to read over WP:MILMOS#FLAGS before you reference it, and if you so strongly believe they shouldn't be in the info box, why are they in just about every biographical article you have written? WP:MILMOS#FLAGS states, "When dealing with biographical infobox templates, the most common practice is to use flag icons to indicate allegiance or branch of service, but not place of birth or death. " Jamesallain85 (talk) 00:37, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

No I haven't created "plenty" of minimally referenced stubs. I don't create a page unless it contains useful and properly referenced information. But if you wish to try WP:REVENGE AFDing my pages again knock yourself out and see what happens. I really don't understand your approach to page creation, you created a whole lot of stub bio pages in December 2019 and January 2020. If you thought these people were notable and worthy of record why didn't you actually provide some detail about them to share with the world? Instead you gave minimally referenced 1-2 sentence thumbnails which tell us next to nothing. Now I would understand it if you were going to come back and expand them later, but after 2 years you still haven't done so and you only seem to make any effort to expand them when they're AFDed. It seems you were just keen to create a big list of all the pages you created to show on your User page rather than provide encyclopedic information. Mztourist (talk) 03:09, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

I have better things to do they play your petty games, keep AFDing my articles and making yourself look like an ass. Just like when you deleted my references and then AFDed the last article, Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Stanley C. Norton, you are just going to fail again. You have some kind of an issue that goes beyond anything I can help you with, if it makes you feel almighty and powerful just keep trying I guess, I don't know what else to say. Jamesallain85 (talk) 09:41, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

If only one of those "better things to do" was actually writing detailed properly referenced pages... Mztourist (talk) 13:35, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

Are you autistic? Because every time I attempt to discuss something with you, you hang on one little issue and fail to grasp the larger picture of what is going on, and just ignore everything out of your little window. You are living in your own little world. Jamesallain85 (talk) 18:25, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

• Keep. Clearly enough material to meet WP:GNG and I think three Silver Stars also meet WP:ANYBIO #1. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:31, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the Article Rescue Squadron's list of content for rescue consideration. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 13:59, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

• Move to the draft space Man was a flag officer, a hard rank to reach, and has awards to justify his claim, but hte article is a work in progress and needs help. I think it may be that its simply out in the mainspace too soon for its own good, and would recommend moving to the draft space for completion and fitting out before launching. TomStar81 (Talk) 14:23, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
• Delete He is rear admiral but the references don't support an article at this time. It would be natural to send it to draft for a while but currently the article has present for more than 2 years, if there was sufficient coverage on the man, it would already present in the article. The current references are there are made up of, passing mentions, entries in list, blogs, military blogs, ship registers and profiles for the medals. I really don't think he was interesting. Changing to strong delete. scope_creep 14:38, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

Have you actually read any of the supporting book references? If not, how would you know if they support an article or not? Jamesallain85 (talk) 14:52, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

• Keep For whatever reason, some of you didn't sign up yet to Misplaced Pages Library so you could read news articles at Newspaper.com, and thus can't see the significant coverage this person has received. Globe-Gazette (Mason City, Iowa) 08 Feb 1947, Sat Page 10 Submarine Skipper Coming With Caravan to Mason City They refer to him as "famed submarine skipper" and write: The "subs" under Capt. McGregor's command sank thousands of tons of Jap shipping during the late war. For these deeds he wears 3 silver medals, the successful sub-marine combat patrol emblem and the gold dolphins of the submarine service of the U. S. navy. He is one of the youngest officers in the navy to hold the rank of captain. The article goes on about him in detail. Dismissing the coverage found because "Newspaper story only viewable through subscription", is ridiculous. You can freely sign up for Misplaced Pages Library at https://wikipedialibrary.wmflabs.org/ Dream Focus 14:54, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United States-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp (talk) 15:07, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp (talk) 15:07, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

• Keep Flag officer who is clearly notabe. Exceeds WP:Soldier. Notable per WP:GNG. As noted above, there are myriad sources that establish his notability. Notability depends on existence of sources, not what is cited in the article or available on line. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 15:28, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

WP:SOLDIER is deprecated and "its use in deletion discussions is actively discouraged". -Ljleppan (talk) 16:27, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

Duly noted. Does not change the outcome. It is cumulative in any event, since there are lots of sources. See WP:Before, which makes article improvement a preference to deletion. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 16:31, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

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