Revision as of 01:18, 28 December 2021 editBorsoka (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users44,580 edits →Surviving Roman institutions: clarification← Previous edit | Revision as of 01:23, 28 December 2021 edit undoEaldgyth (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Administrators152,813 edits →Unwatching...: new sectionNext edit → | ||
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The lead states that "Monasteries were founded as campaigns to Christianise pagan Europe continued." In fact, most monasteries were established after the Christianization of Europe. For instance, during the period of the Christianization of Hungary (c. 970 - c. 1095) less than 20 monasteries were founded - in comparison, during the following centuries hundreds of abbeys, convents, etc. were established. ] (]) 00:53, 28 December 2021 (UTC) | The lead states that "Monasteries were founded as campaigns to Christianise pagan Europe continued." In fact, most monasteries were established after the Christianization of Europe. For instance, during the period of the Christianization of Hungary (c. 970 - c. 1095) less than 20 monasteries were founded - in comparison, during the following centuries hundreds of abbeys, convents, etc. were established. ] (]) 00:53, 28 December 2021 (UTC) | ||
== Unwatching... == | |||
Im not available to deal with this tagging campaign and having watched a similar attack at ], I’m not going to hang around to watch someone tear the article apart while never providing any sources for the assertions being made. Not worth the aggravation...] (]) 01:23, 28 December 2021 (UTC) |
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Christian unity
The article's lead wrongly states that "This period also saw the collapse of the unified Christian church, with the East-West Schism of 1054." @Nikkimaria:, are you sure that the emergence of the distinct Nestorian Church and Monophysite/Miaphysite churches after Ephesus and Chalcedon do not contradict the statement? Borsoka (talk) 14:44, 27 December 2021 (UTC)
- The article begins "In the history of Europe ...", and in that context the statement is fine. Please stop littering the article with statements of opinion in tags. Johnbod (talk) 14:47, 27 December 2021 (UTC)
- Have you ever heard of Arianism, Bogumilism? Borsoka (talk) 14:50, 27 December 2021 (UTC)
- It may be more accurate to say that it saw the formal division of Christian unity with the East–West Schism with what we now know as the denominations of Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church. Elias (talk) 22:00, 27 December 2021 (UTC)
- Arianism, Bogomilism, Catharism, Waldensianism, etc. were considered heresies by the Catholic Church of the time, not schisms, and none of them directly caused "the collapse of the unified Christian church" - Epinoia (talk) 23:15, 27 December 2021 (UTC)
- Eliasbizannes yes, I think this is the best approach (although Christian unity has never existed). Epinoia yes, but we are not here to present a Catholic PoV as a fact. Borsoka (talk) 23:36, 27 December 2021 (UTC)
- Arianism, Bogomilism, Catharism, Waldensianism, etc. were considered heresies by the Catholic Church of the time, not schisms, and none of them directly caused "the collapse of the unified Christian church" - Epinoia (talk) 23:15, 27 December 2021 (UTC)
- I concur with Johnbod; the tagging campaign is not helpful, especially in the absence of sourcing for proposed changes. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:59, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
- Tagging is the best approach when a problem is detected. The lead of the article is problematic: most of the statements that I tagged are not verified in the main text. Borsoka (talk) 01:10, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
Crusades
According to the article's lead: "The Crusades, first preached in 1095, were military attempts by Western European Christians to regain control of the Holy Land from Muslims." It is a correct statement, but @Nikkimaria: are you sure that these military actions are more important than the crusades against the Moors, the Baltic and Finno-Ugric tribes? The latter contributed to the development of at least 7 EU member states and directly effected the history of further European nations. Borsoka (talk) 14:48, 27 December 2021 (UTC)
Italy and the Ottonian Empire
According to the article: "By the late 10th century Italy had been drawn into the Ottonian sphere after a period of instability; Otto III (r. 996–1002) spent much of his later reign in the kingdom." 1. Otto I was crowned by the Iron Crown of Lombardy in 951. 2. His coronation was preceeded and followed by a period of instability. Likewise, the reigns of his son, Otto II, and his grandson Otto III were preceeded and followed by periods of instability. Otto III spent less than 4 years in Italy. Why is this information is so important in the article's context? (In comparison, Henry IV spent more than 10 years in Italy.)Borsoka (talk) 14:59, 27 December 2021 (UTC)
File:Europe in 900 AD.png
The map presents "Ahtum lordship" along the northwestern frontiers of Bulgaria although Ahtum - if ever existed - lived in the early 11th century. Norman Davies's map, the alleged source of this map, does not present this lordship. Neither are the two Burgundian kingdoms and Lotharingia presented in the alleged source of this map. Borsoka (talk) 00:37, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
The Code of Justinian
@Borsoka You point out as needing clarification the following "The empire's law code, the Corpus Juris Civilis or "Code of Justinian", was rediscovered in Northern Italy in the 11th century."
I agree, the Corpus Juris Civilis needs to stand in its out right as the achievement. The subsequent 11th century rediscovery by Western Europe (and related, the translations into Greek with the Basilika) are not the achievement in themselves other than helping transmit the knowledge into the more modern day. Elias (talk) 00:38, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
- Yes, and the Corpus Juris Civilis could hardly be described as the empire's law code. It is a compilation of imperial decrees - as it is mentioned in the main text. Borsoka (talk) 00:40, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
Surviving Roman institutions
The lead states that "In the West, most kingdoms incorporated the few extant Roman institutions." I assume the author refers to the survival of the ecclesiastic structure (because there is no mention of other surviving Roman institutions in the article), but the statement suggests more. What were the other Roman institutions incorporated by the "barbarian" kingdoms? Perhaps legal tradition? Borsoka (talk) 00:48, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
Monasteries and Christianization
The lead states that "Monasteries were founded as campaigns to Christianise pagan Europe continued." In fact, most monasteries were established after the Christianization of Europe. For instance, during the period of the Christianization of Hungary (c. 970 - c. 1095) less than 20 monasteries were founded - in comparison, during the following centuries hundreds of abbeys, convents, etc. were established. Borsoka (talk) 00:53, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
Unwatching...
Im not available to deal with this tagging campaign and having watched a similar attack at crusades, I’m not going to hang around to watch someone tear the article apart while never providing any sources for the assertions being made. Not worth the aggravation...Ealdgyth (talk) 01:23, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
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