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Revision as of 21:05, 27 January 2022

If you are here to discuss something about an article's content then please, to promote centralized discussion and maximize consensus, comment on that article's Talk page and not here.

New new Happy new new

I just love a virgin talk page four years in a row.

My best to you. Roxy the dog. wooF 03:19, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

I think we can call it a tradition. Happy New Year to you too, and to all my lovely Talk Page watchers. Let's hope 2022 turns out better than 2021! Alexbrn (talk) 04:43, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

Nirmatrelvir

Hello Alexbrn, could you please advise me If the changes citing peer-reviewed scientific journals can be kept? Thank you for your help. https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Nirmatrelvir&type=revision&diff=1063501789&oldid=1063500319 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Exaltedyeti (talk • contribs) 12:14, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

Hi there! Please see the welcome message on your page and WP:MEDRS (or WP:MEDFAQ for a quick start). In general, the English Misplaced Pages requires much more than just that a paper is peer-reviewed for it to be considered suitable as a source for biomedical content. Alexbrn (talk) 12:17, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

Hello, thank you for linking this resource. With this in mind, I will attempt another, smaller edit of the page, using review article content only!Exaltedyeti (talk) 12:28, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

Psilocybin Microdosing (Safety)

Hello Alexbrn,

(1) Thank you for letting me know about the 'Sea of Blue' issue. I will make sure I correct the links.

(2) Could you please point to the unreliable sources that are making you redirect the page? I would like to fix the errors and provide proper sources for the article.

Thanks! R-Cal-L (talk) 06:20, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

Hi there! Just picking one at random, PMID:30829033 is primary research on rats. In general, primary research is not suitable for use on Misplaced Pages for biomedical content — see the links I have posted on your talk page for guidance.

If you can find better sources (e.g. review articles, textbooks and statements from major medical bodies) then material on the the very niche topic you are writing about ("Psilocybin Microdosing Safety‎") should be added to the Psychedelic microdosing article and, if that gets too big, split out eventually. Because of WP:NOPAGE it is not a good idea to fragment a topic into many tiny fragment articles (which this would be, given the likely tiny amount of viable sourcing). Alexbrn (talk) 06:35, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for your suggestions.

@WP:MEDRS: I have to say that initially I was surprised to find that Misplaced Pages doesn’t support providing primary sources but the more I read on https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Identifying_reliable_sources_(medicine), the more it makes sense. I will work on getting secondary sources for the data. However, since the page doesn’t exist because of the redirect, how can I make changes to improve it? Should I start another draft from one of the older versions from the history of it?

@WP:NOPAGE, I understand what you are saying. I have reviewed the redirect page. I could create a psilocybin microdosing safety subsection on it. The page I am trying to create is much more detailed. My goal is to provide a more specific safety-related page to the psychedelics community especially because of the anticipated review of psilocybin microdosing safety information by various legislative bodies across the world in the coming year. I imagine I could add this information to the psychedelics safety subsection but I feel that it would take away from the general psychedelics-based focus of that page. Please advise. Thank you and Happy New Year! R-Cal-L (talk) 08:38, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

It would be better to expand the article as is, and if it gets to big then a WP:SPLIT might be warranted. In general articles tend to cover all aspects of a drug in one place, even for major ones like, say, Clozapine.

I see you have created/edited Psilocybin Microdosing and Psilocybin Microdosing Safety — I don't think having these as standalone articles is a good idea. Any sources for biomedical assertions in these articles which were not WP:MEDRS would almost certainly be considered unreliable. Alexbrn (talk) 08:51, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

Sounds good. I will add the psilocybin microdosing safety content as subsections to https://en.wikipedia.org/Psychedelic_microdosing after I take care of the WP:MEDRS issues with it. Quick question: I had two tables in the content. One with serotonin receptors binding affinity values and the second with dosage information of some compounds. I had cited the non-review papers for those experimentally determined values. Is it ok to do that? If not, what other way can experimental data be presented? My goal is to provide some experimental proof to the readers since lately it has been more difficult to convince readers about scientific facts. Thank you for all your help with this. Best, R-Cal-L (talk) 05:50, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

If you can find MEDRS sources, your plan sounds good. I'd say the tbular detail detail you propose is not appropriate: Misplaced Pages is meant to be a summary for general readers, and in any case we are in no position to judge whether content in primary sources is correct (the kind of "accepted knowledge" Misplaced Pages is meant to be summarizing). P.S. in Talk page interactions, please use the conventions of WP:INDENT to keep conversations threaded. Alexbrn (talk) 06:10, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

January 2022

Hello, I'm Levivich. I noticed that you made a comment on the page WP:COIN that didn't seem very civil, so it may have been removed. Misplaced Pages is built on collaboration, so it's one of our core principles to interact with one another in a polite and respectful manner. If you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. When I correctly identify and report a COI, and you repeatedly call what I'm doing a "witch hunt", you are personally attacking me, and attempting through bullying tactics to get me to stop reporting COI editing. This is unacceptable; please stop defending COI via these intimidation tactics. Levivich 14:17, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

Don't be silly, it's not you personally that's the problem and I've been quite clear about seems questionable behaviour. COI-tainted editing is bad, but misguided zeal is as much a problem as we have seen in the past. Alexbrn (talk) 14:22, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

It doesn't matter who it's directed at, you shouldn't be saying it about anyone. I'm the one who started the COIN, I'm the one who is pursuing this. What I'm doing is not a witch hunt, so stop calling it that. You are trying to create a chilling effect -- to discourage people from pursuing this -- and that's not ok. You, personally, need to get on the right side of this issue or you're going to be a party to the inevitable arbcom case that's coming. They do in fact have a COI and they did in fact lie about it in the COIN thread ("I have never edited about myself" = flat lie, quickly disproven with diffs). This won't go away, and later, everyone's conduct will be examined. When the question is asked, "why couldn't the community handle this?," I will answer, "because Alex kept making personal attacks against whomever raised the issue." So stop creating the diffs that support that answer; stop accusing people who are concerned about an actual COI of being on a witch hunt. Levivich 14:46, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

I don't agree it's a personal attack and if I see witch-hunting behaviour I will call it out. Alexbrn (talk) 14:49, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

You'd better double check the definition of "witch hunt". I don't think that phrase means what you think it means. "Witch hunt" doesn't mean "ganging up on someone" or "false accusation". A "witch hunt" is the pursuit of people for holding unorthodox or unpopular views. Enforcing our COI policies isn't even analogous to pursuing people for their views. Nobody is even talking about these editors' views. By accusing the COIN I started of being a witch hunt, you're saying I filed it because I want to silence their views, meaning I am anti-skeptic or pro-woo. That's why it's a personal attack. Levivich 14:58, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

Witch hunting is exactly hitting the nail on the head. It does mean false accusation. Good grief. -Roxy the dog. wooF 15:01, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

"By accusing the COIN I started" ← what does that even mean? The thread at COIN has diffused beyond your input and my concern is specifically behaviour which (yes) does accord exactly with the behaviour of a witch hunt: identifying and rounding up people for blame. In case you weren't aware there have also been mass deletions of articles attempted and nearly-block-worthy personal questions made by some of the posse ... all in an area where for some kinds of editing it is not even agreed by the community a COI is problematic (i.e. citing a publication with which one is associated, or encouraging people to cite one's RS works). I have no tolerance for problematic COI-tainted editing and a record to show that; equally I have seen misdirected zeal having bad consequences (and have been on the receiving end of dodgy COI accusations myself). You seem to be saying that everything that happens in a thread in which you posted first has to be by definition okay, which is absurd. Alexbrn (talk) 15:16, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

Slight edit to your comment

Some people get testy about minor formatting edits to their comments, so I just wanted to let you know I closed up your underline tag. There was a missed / in the closing tag. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:02, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

D'oh - silly me. Thanks! Alexbrn (talk) 16:03, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

No worries. Just didn't want to step on toes. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:05, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

Whitewashing Paul Thacker's page

Your "good faith" edits removing the extremely well-documented facts that Paul Thacker is a dishonest, anti-GMO, anti-vaccine activist haven't gone unnoticed. 73.254.14.29 (talk) 06:50, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

Does that mean I get a WP:Barnstar? Alexbrn (talk) 06:52, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

Sure. You and the other good faith editors at Misplaced Pages should be proud that you're helping promote a guy who is keeping the COVID pandemic going by spreading lies about vaccines. 73.254.14.29 (talk) 06:56, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

BLPN notification

There is a discussion occurring at Misplaced Pages:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard that you may be involved with. ––FormalDude talk 09:24, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

Thanks. Do you ever get the feeling we're unpaid workers cleaning up somebody else's mess? Alexbrn (talk) 09:28, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

Meh. It's the cost of an open encyclopedia. I like being a volunteer. ––FormalDude talk 09:37, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

You're invited! January 29: COVID-19 Pandemic in the United States Edit-a-thon / Translate-a-thon - Online via Zoom

COVID-19 Pandemic in the United States Edit-a-thon / Translate-a-thon (January 29, 2022)

Hello Alexbrn! I'd like to invite you to a Covid-19 focused Edit-a-thon / Translate-a-thon, open to the public, via Zoom on Saturday - January 29th, 2022, 1pm-3pm E.S.T. We will be focusing our edits on the ongoing Coronavirus pandemic. Click the event page to read more. This event is hosted by Sure We Can, a recycling and community center in Brooklyn. This is the 4th Covid-focused Edit-a-thon that Sure We Can has hosted. Click here to see the last three COVID-19 focused edit-a-thons: Sept 6th, 2020 & Nov 21, 2020 & Feb 6th, 2021. In past events, we translated the COVID-19 pandemic in New York City article into Spanish, Yoruba, Malagasy, Hebrew, Swahili, Tagalog, Korean, Russian, Japanese, Portuguese, Polish, Greek, Haitian Creole, and wrote the COVID-19 vaccine hesitancy in the United States article. We would love for you to join us. All experience levels welcome. COVID-19 Pandemic in the United States Edit-a-thon / Translate-a-thon Saturday January 29, 1PM - 3PM E.S.T (18:00 - 20:00 UTC)

--Wil540 art (talk) 17:15, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

Letting you know

Your name has come up in Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Guerilla Skepticism on Misplaced Pages, where I've mentioned in my statement that you should be notified. You are not a named party or anything like that, but I felt that someone should let you know. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:30, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Thanks. So, it looks like there's going to be a case. Probably just as well, though it appears some people have unrealistic expectations about what Arbcom can/will do. Alexbrn (talk) 18:41, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Circumcision article

Hey, Alexbrn! I just wanted to give you a notice — so it's not misinterpreted as a form of edit warring — that I temporarily reverted the article back to the original version — until there's a consensus on what to do about it. I wrote about why I thought that the suggested changes made by Stix1776 were heavily problematic and a downgrade from the existing version here.

As for the Cleveland Clinic, Mayo Clinic, and Council on Foreign Relations citations, I agree with you that they're pretty excessive, and not at all crucial to the article, and I can see why they might raise problems related to WP:MEDRS, so free to delete them. I don't have an objection there. Best regards, KlayCax (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 18:41, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

No problem, I haven't been paying much attention to the article (which, to be honest, is a bit of a chore because of the controversy). From a quick look now it seems a lot of the sources are getting a bit old. Alexbrn (talk) 18:43, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Misconfigured cluebot?

Hi, on the talk page for John Campbell, the cluebot you added is configured with an 'age' parameter of '14'. Did you intend that? It means threads are archived if they receive no further edits within 14 hours. That seems rather extreme. Typically it's set to something far more conservative like 720 for thirty days, or a slightly less conservative 360, for two weeks. cheers. Anastrophe (talk) 20:11, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

D'oh! Mixed up my days/hours and bot behaviour! It should be - yes - 720 or something. Alexbrn (talk) 20:22, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Easy mistake to make, certainly. Shall I correct, or you? And should the aggressively archived stuff be restored, or just let sleeping dogs lie? I'm inclined neither way really. I'm tired of writing about it. :) Anastrophe (talk) 20:32, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Feel free to interact

Hi! I asked you to stop editing my talk page some months ago. See thread. I think enough time has passed since then, so feel free to interact in my talk page if you wish. I thought it was unnecessary to clarify it then as it would probably just increase the animosity, but I used the word "stalk" because you had used the {{stalker}} template IIRC, it wasn't an accusation or anything. A. C. Santacruz ⁂ Please ping me! 14:46, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

I don't believe I have ever used the {{stalker}} template, but I'm happy to move on. Alexbrn (talk) 15:01, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

Courtesy link: it was the {{Buttinsky}} template linking to a page by that name. A. C. Santacruz ⁂ Please ping me! 15:07, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

Ah yes, I do use that: that one's much more fun. Alexbrn (talk) 15:12, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

I do like the template myself as well ^u^ A. C. Santacruz ⁂ Please ping me! 15:21, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

Non-neutrality in the Vision Therapy article is a known problem

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

You keep undoing my edits. Gatekeeping is easy for you. But the article isn't up to snuff, and if you want to appoint yourself its' guardian, it needs to actually comply with the rules. --Horatio Von Becker

Agreed. Please make your case on Talk. And maybe learn about the correct use of the apostrophe. Alexbrn (talk) 20:37, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

At least two people have already made the case for it! Also the possessive apostrophe is entirely valid. -Horatio Von Becker 180.148.123.68 (talk) 20:42, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

Wrong. Alexbrn (talk) 20:44, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

Explain. -Horatio Von Becker 180.148.123.68 (talk) 20:47, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

Horatio Von Becker sounds like the name of someone who offers you a million dollars to spend the night in his haunted mansion. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 20:51, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

Notice

This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.

You have shown interest in Complementary and Alternative Medicine. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect. Any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Misplaced Pages's policies, or the page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.

For additional information, please see the guidance on discretionary sanctions and the Arbitration Committee's decision here. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor.

— Epastore (talk) 21:40, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

Verifiability/falsifiability of real existence

Since Tryptofish asked us to take our discussion elsewhere, I'm coming to your talk page with it. I hope you don't mind. I'll also ping PaleoNeonate since they started the discussion, and I suspect they might be interested.

I'm happy that we moved from calling me pro-fringe to eccentric. I have spent a lot of time studying ancient and medieval philosophy, and I cannot deny that this has had some influence on my personal views, to the point of me becoming perhaps somewhat eccentric in my approach. I will note though that I'm not a proponent of the idea that we can't know anything. Like most modern philosophers, I regard the question of what we can and cannot know as depending on epistemological premises about which very legitimate discussion can be had. But, again like most contemporary philosophers, I do believe it justified to lay out such premises, and to call the propositions which result from them knowledge. For example, I believe the epistemological foundations of science to be sound, and I regard scientific inquiry as productive of knowledge.

I'm also just parroting mainstream philosophy of science when I say that inquiring into the real existence of something falls outside of the epistemological scope of science. To make claims about the real existence of things we need further epistemological premises, such as for example the premise that things for which there is no scientific evidence simply do not exist. As I've tried to explain in the other thread, this premise is not one that is near-universally held to be sound, like the epistemological foundations of science are. It's a specifically positivist view, which was never universally held, and which has in fact been largely abandoned by a large majority of philosophers since the 1970s. You just can't invoke this premise as something only eccentrics would disagree with. It's also not in any way a premise that non-philosophical reliable sources just take for granted, like they take the soundness of science for granted. It's really important to differentiate between these two things.

Finally, you wrote: If you think (in anything other than a school debate) that the non-falsifiability of something means it might be real, then good luck to you. Well yes, if something's existence cannot be falsified, that means that it is possible that it exists. This is just basic modal logic. It does not mean that it is necessary that it exists, nor even that it is likely that it exists. But it does mean that it is possible, by definition: that which cannot be shown to be false is not necessarily false, and that which is not necessarily false is possibly true.

So yes, if the existence of qi cannot be disproven, that means that it is possible it exists. But note that with the positivist premise outlined above, it does become possible to prove that qi does not exist. If there is not scientific evidence for the existence qi, and if things for which there is no scientific evidence do not exist, qi does not exist. This is as much as to state that Ernst, who says that the existence of qi cannot be disproven, does not share the positivist premise. He also affirms the possibility of qi's existence: even though we can't observe it directly in any way, it may still be there, in the same way that God may be there.

It really seems to me that you just have a hard time understanding these subtle philosophical points, which sound to you like the bogus reasoning of fringe-pushers, while they're actually entirely accurate and mainstream. I also think that if only you would trust a little more that I'm really not here to push or justify fringe in any way, you might more easily see that what I say is accurate and mainstream. I'm in fact entirely with you on most points, and IRL I'm actually regarded by my acquaintances as a skeptic and a defender of science. ☿ Apaugasma (talk ☉) 20:18, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

I didn't call you PROFRINGE, though your arguments seem to align with those that are. I think your arguments are insane. Please don't post here any more about them. Alexbrn (talk) 21:04, 27 January 2022 (UTC)