Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 22:27, 9 February 2007

Thank you

I want to thanks for all your support. I know you have been very hurt by the disgusting treatment you have received in this horrible debacle. As you, together with Geogre, are amongst the encyclopedia's finest and most valuable editors you deserved better. However, I'm planning to say little more on the subject unless I'm attacked again. I have proved my point about the IRC admin channel, and many people (whose opinion matters to me) now seem to believe all I have ben saying was true. The channel is now thoroughly discredited and will never be a source of power again, and used by anyone of Wikipedian value - it is now basically finished - no one will ever believe a word that emanates from it again, no doubt a few little firecrackers will continue to pop on admins notice boards and such places but I think people can now evaluate such comments for themselves and see them for what they are dying embers of a former power base. Once again thanks for your support in this. I have appreciated it. Giano 10:46, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

De nada, Giacomo. I wish the Wikimedia foundation would remove the official-sounding name from #wikipedia-en-admins, that's all. It's all wrong that that poison pit should have "Misplaced Pages" in its name. And who's going to remove this claim in WP:IRC: "The Misplaced Pages channels on freenode are the official place to chat about Misplaced Pages on IRC." The arbcom have shown that statement to be false--nothing official about it, no Wikimedia control of it. Bishonen | talk 13:03, 17 January 2007 (UTC).

I've made the change. I mentioned it on the talk page to the IRC page. We'll see what happens next. Geogre 13:28, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

I went one step further . Cheers. Ben Aveling 11:42, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately within minutes of me announcing I was stepping back Tony and the IRC gang immediately began to blacken my name again on IRC I never believed the new "policemen" would bother to do anything about it, but I did expect at least a pretence! Giano 13:32, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Restoration literature question

Congratulations on the front page article - seems it's been listed for ages though. It's really nice to see an overview article of such quality there. It seems sometimes, that only the more marginal, niche articles can jump the hurdles, whilst the invaluable overviews get bogged down in disputes and difficulties - getting a single editorial 'voice' for these articles is a real achievement. --Mcginnly | Natter 00:47, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Ah, that's on today? Cool. Geogre wrote it, you know, I just contributed a section. He's the one with the soaring eagle eye! Bishonen | talk 01:25, 18 January 2007 (UTC).

Yes, it is, and it's wonderful too; I've set it aside to look forward to reading in detail in the morning. Newyorkbrad 01:26, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

I will be reading it this morning as well as I don't think I've read it completely through. It will also give context to The Man of Mode, next on my reading list after finishing Tis Pity She's a Whore. *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 14:28, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

You haven't read The Man of Mode, Gan? I think you'll really like it. I feel it's like the perfect play for you. It's as funny as all getout. Bishonen | talk 20:14, 18 January 2007 (UTC).

I'm quite excited about it. After Tis Pity, I need something a bit lighter. *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 20:33, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

I second that. Man of Mode is fantastic, and so is Love for Love. Really fun parts for an actor and great jokes. (I'm only at the computer for a few minutes, but the shocked FAR fanatics on the talk page and the griping piping voices deserved a swatting.) Geogre 21:21, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Alkalada

Alkalada is begging me to be unblocked and promising good behavior. I'd like to give him a chance. Any objections? Fred Bauder 17:41, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Who...? Oh, I see. He's a very young editor but with a pretty bad record of POV-pushing and puppeteering and intransigence. This time he has apparently done exactly what I asked , that's great. I hope he's turning over a new leaf. Feel free to unblock. I also suggest the harmless indulgence of asking him which identity he likes best, unblock that one, and exhort him to stick to it. Tell him I'll know if he creates any more socks. (I will, as his style is unmistakable.) Bishonen | talk 20:11, 18 January 2007 (UTC).

Thank you, unblocking Alkalada (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). Fred Bauder 00:54, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I'd just like to point out that Hahahihihoho, using the account Alkalada, is back to his old ways and hasn't changed his ways at all, so I've requested that Alkalada be blocked at Misplaced Pages:Suspected sock puppets —KingIvan 08:15, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Now, I have put sources on most of the things I have changed like the demographics of Bosnia and like the names of cities in Northern Bosnia. And if somebody is BORN IN BOSNIA, THEN HE IS AUTOMATICALLY A BOSNIAN, it doesnt matter wheather he is a croat, serb or bosniaks.

How can somebody bor in Bosnia be Croatian? Alkalada 11:31, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

And if you continue like this then I will report you for vandalism. Alkalada 11:32, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Okey, this is enough.

Bishonen, and all other moderators, I am hearby reporting user Ivan Kricancic for repeted vandalism. This user has not put a single source on his edits and continued his vandalims without any reference to source. He is just taking away articles where he wants and when he wants.

Because of that, I report him now for constantly vandalism. Alkalada 11:40, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

The only one vandalizing and violating Misplaced Pages policies is YOU, User:Hahahihihoho. Please refrain from violating Wikiepdia policies.—KingIvan 11:44, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Ehum... you are violating wikipedia policies when you TAKE AWAY SOURCED ARTICLES. Alkalada 14:39, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

No personal attacks

With regard to reminding user's of policies like WP:CIVIL, WP:AGF and WP:NPA, there is never any harm in repeating them. The use of templates for all users, established or not, is not prohibited. I prefer them because it is my epxerience that in many situations they are preferable to users actually speaking their mind (like your comment about users leaving).

If you believe that the personal attack referenced is harmless then you will not mind me making the same comment with regard to your so-called advice: why are you so interested in me? Per WP:NPA you should comment on contributions and not contributors.

Posting a comment like "Yes, I do see that you announce your imminent departure, but that doesn't malke me think this advice redundant. Most people who make such announcements, in my experience, tend to retract them pretty soon." (diff) does not sound productive to me. It sounds like a challenge, which can deter users from returning. If that is your intent I find it utterly disgusting. I would advise you to please consider phrasing yourself differently in the future, or if that is not possible to refrain from commenting at all. Such comments are not helpful.

--Oden 22:20, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Ah, there speaks the wikilawyer! It's not prohibited. I explain to you what bad ideas it is to point to the three Troll Favorite Policies, and to use templates against established users; I enlighten you as to the massive consensus against such behaviour; and that's all you've got? (Well, except that you prefer templates because they're preferable, but that doesn't do a lot for the advancement of human knowledge, either.) It's "not prohibited" so I'm going to do it? Don't worry, I'm not going to waste any more of my time explaining stuff to you. Bishonen | talk 22:45, 18 January 2007 (UTC).

Unbelievable: Templates are for use with null accounts and incommunicative users. Experienced administrators use them for IP accounts and nonce accounts, where there is every reason to believe that there is "no one" there or that the person there is absolutely committed to trolling. They are never appropriate for established users, ever. They are incommunicative, carry with them no explanation, and have no justification offered within them. They're billboards, not communication. It is disruptive and inappropriate to try to drive users away, even bad ones, as bad turns to good, but gone never turns that way. To say that there is a consensus against this use, Bishonen, is litotes. There is virtual unanimity about it. Geogre 02:32, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

WP:Troll Favorite Policies should be an essay. One puppy's opinion. KillerChihuahua 02:38, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

some updates

I'm not sure if you are following the discussion at User talk:ApocalypticDestroyer's. I don't know what Ben is trying to do with that. So anyway just keeping you up-to-date. Btw thanks for the e-mail (I'm almost a week late) and good to see that you removed the leaving announcement from your page. Hope you stick around.--Certified.Gangsta 23:23, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Umm..and also an IP edited Isberg's userpage, ]?? Is that you or can it be Guardian Tiger?--Certified.Gangsta 00:46, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm not following that discussion, Boney. I disengage, I go Zen, I take stuff off my watchlist. I advise you to do the same. The IP isn't me, I've no idea who it is. Bishonen | talk 01:20, 19 January 2007 (UTC).

Sure, thanks for the advise. The pages have been removed from my watchlist.--Certified.Gangsta 07:33, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi Bish, sorry to be a pain, but I'm going to ask you to have a look at User_talk:ApocalypticDestroyer's#User:Guardian_Tiger_Timeline. It's an annotated copy of a timeline Gangsta put together. Tiger and I have been discussing it and we don't believe that it demonstrates that Tiger has been abusive. (A sock, yes, but you and I could both be hung for that.) I'd like your feedback. I want to take this back to ANI and I'd very much like to have your support when I do. Regards, Ben Aveling 11:13, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

I blocked someone today and noticed that the edit summary for one of its edit read Jesus is coming, look busy! Look busy, I like that! El_C 13:06, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

I've been curious to see how this has been turning out and I think you may find User_talk:BenAveling/RevolverOcelotX_allegations interesting. I couldn't quite understand why the editor was so emphatic in the blocked user's innocence. The page in summation attributes all the problems the blocked user has had to differences with only me and Certified Gangsta. I think someone's altruistic tendancies might be creating a cognitive bias that is starting to skew the obvious facts in reality here. The blocked editor has had problems with many other editors on Misplaced Pages, me and CG are the only ones (and you) who tried to do anything about it. Enjoy your day. ShuckyDucky 19:26, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Open up

I'm with the Dawg! El_C 01:53, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

I never understand a word you say, honey! Bishonen | talk 17:55, 19 January 2007 (UTC).

I saw the logs

I now understand why you are angry. --Kim Bruning 04:47, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Marilyn Majeski and the Grove Street Playhouse

Yeah, trivial, but it's the principle of the thing.

Reader's Digest version: last year, someone created an article about a minor playhouse in NYC called the Grove Street Playhouse. That someone -- MissMajesty (talk · contribs) -- seemed to be Marilyn Majeski, its owner, since the article seemd solely done to promote the importance of Majeski -- especially after the playhouse and the bio both went up for AFD. Angry messages, talk page spamming, an ongoing fight with User:NYTheaterHistorian (whom she apparently knows IRL), massive sockpuppetry, etc. Eventually, the drama ends, and MM goes away.

A few months ago, I noticed that a brand-new user had edited one of my Talk Page archives (it being on my watchlist), removing the reference to "Grove Street Playhouse" from a message. So I followed backwards from there, and discovered that for the last several months before, a series of one-off accounts had been expunging the record from various pages about what had happened. Nothing as crude as blanking entire pages, but still. The one-offs and older sockpuppets include:

• Gary1952 (talk · contribs)
• 69.143.167.9 (talk · contribs)
• Casual Observer (talk · contribs)
• Misha3 (talk · contribs)
• Princess Grace (talk · contribs)
• RickJo (talk · contribs)
• Theatrelog (talk · contribs)
• Mambo5 (talk · contribs)
• CyberAngel (talk · contribs)
• CyberAngels (talk · contribs)
• Julie123 (talk · contribs)
• Quatro4 (talk · contribs)
• Chico99 (talk · contribs)
• Krane7 (talk · contribs)
• Krane77 (talk · contribs)
• VictorBumbalo (talk · contribs)
• NYTheatreHistorian (talk · contribs) (NOT the same as above)

I reversed the whitewashing. The puppeteer has become angry. That's it in a nutshell. --Calton | Talk 01:05, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Trust me, I left off a lot of details: the ongoing fight with User:NYTheaterHistorian (whom she apparently knows IRL) covers a multitude of sins and would be worth a few hundred more words, if I could actually sort out what it was about, which I do not want to. Oy. --Calton | Talk 01:37, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I have responded to your note on my talk page. Julie123 18:34, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Picture of the day

Hi Bishonen; I was actually working on this, but hadn't learned anything useful. I got the pic to display by copy-and-pasting the body of the template, {{POTD/{{{date|{{#time:Y-m-d}}}}}|condensed}}, but I don't really know what I'm doing. Anyway, it it a cool picture. Tom Harrison 14:49, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

A vs An

Do we refer to a hypothesis or an hypothesis - I think it might be an. We usually put an an in front of words beginning with vowels eg. an irritation but I've got it in my head that h sometimes has a peculiar status eg. an honourable peace. Is this just 1. a product of my confusion or 2. archaic usage or 3. quite correct?......--Mcginnly | Natter 16:51, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

You didn't think of asking me? I'm tempted not to answer, but the pedantic urge is too strong. /H/ is not a consonant. It is an aspirant. (I.e. it is a breath mark. It tells us to blow out with a hhhhhhhhhh.) Therefore, traditionally, we treat words beginning with /h/ as beginning with whatever letter comes next, which is usually a vowel. However, many people now think it sounds weird and therefore will use "a." Basically, I say "an hypothesis" and "an history," but some people will think these are wrong. It's considered a little fussy to use the 'an', but it's still correct. (Sorry, Bish, but I had to.) Geogre 16:57, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Geogre, I did think of asking you, but as my first point of call for dumb questions I thought I'd spread the burden out a bit.....Thanks very much for the confirmation. --Mcginnly | Natter 17:12, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I disagree in part, though: At least in the Eastern U.S., any word beginning with a sounded "h" takes "a". Newyorkbrad 17:14, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I say and write a hypothesis and a history, but an hour and an heir. See also A, an#Discrimination between a and an. —Mets501 (talk) 17:36, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, we're right back in the old descriptive vs. proscriptive argument. The rule is that /h/ is not a consonant. The practice and therefore growing usage is to treat it as "not a vowel and therefore as a consonant." Ultimately, the reason the rule came into force in the first place as a disambiguation, as it were. English doesn't like blending vowels between words, and so we use the nasal to provide a stop. Thus, we had "thy glory" vs. "thine arm," as well as "my bird" vs. "mine emu." The rule is exactly the same, and you're still actually correct to put the /n/, but the language is losing those rules (by analogy to the loss of nasal pronouns? as part of the same shift?), so it's debatable whether "a history" is wrong or not. Geogre 19:54, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

"proscriptive" (thou shalt not) or "prescriptive" (thou shalt)? Per Fowler, on split infinitives, there are those who neither know nor care; those who do not know but care very much; those who know and condemn; those who know and approve; and those who know and distinguish. Let us all hope for the sensibility to fall into the last camp. -- ALoan (Talk) 11:38, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Ask and ye shall receive. Both are acceptable. Raul654 19:58, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

• If we wanted to be linguists, we'd figger out what it is about some vowel lengths that, when aspirated, need no stops. I.e. "hy" is longer and heavier than "how" or "hoi," and therefore "hypothesis" and "hyperbole" and "hyperborean" all feel like they need no nasal stop before them, where as "howl" feels like it does. If the u is really yu ("hubris"), we feel like it's heavy, too. However, I traded in my linguist badge for a crossing guard sash years ago, so I'm not qualified by temperament or training. Geogre 20:35, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

'ard 'earted 'ercules 'it his 'orse over its 'ed with an 'ammer cause it to give an 'orrible 'owl. So for a cockney everyfink beginnin wiv H 'as an an. ie. maybe your suggestion re. vowel lengths is only going to work with received pronunciation --Mcginnly | Natter 22:17, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Not that I'm at all qualified to judge this, but the obvious rule seems to be that "a" goes with "h" that is pronounced ("hhhh"), and "an" goes with "h" that is silent. An honour, an hour, a hotel, a horror. Counterexamples, please? Kosebamse 08:25, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

• To tell the truth, each of those. The thing is that we're at the point of discarding an ancient rule in English. Some people, like me, preserve it in written English (but not in spoken English) because I regard it as best to be conservative in writing. (In other words, some hypercorrectives will be offended if "an" isn't used, so I avoid being "wrong" to them. Additionally, I cannot be sure how the reader is going to pronounce the /h/. As Mcginnly's cockneys demonstrate, English speakers around the world treat the aspiration differently, so some will have more or less of a vocal initial sound, so "an" does them some service, while it just looks fussbudget to the people who aspirate heavily.) Since we've lost our /n/ speedbump between our pronouns, keeping it with /h/ may be gone already. Note that a good many people in speech will say "a" and anything following. The nasal is getting lost altogether. In 50-100 years, it seems like there will be no "an" at all. So, does one make a stand and fight for the /n/, or does one not? I do, but humbly. Geogre 13:25, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

• There is a strong distinction between British usage and North American usage (I have no idea about Commonwealth usage apart from Canada). In North America it is extremely rare to see "an" before a voiced "h". This has been the case for many years: I remember the issue coming up on an episode of M*A*S*H when upper class Bostonian, Charles Winchester, was revealed as an absurdly pretentious oaf for saying "an harmonica"...; that was in the mid-1970s. A further wrinkle is that of words like "homage" that may be pronounced with either a voiced or an unvoiced "h"; I've seen examples in Canadian and US texts of both "an homage" (which I would srite and say) and "a homage". Pinkville 14:05, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

With nothing better to do, I was mulling this over at the weekend and found another irregularity:- I would refer to a Royal air force engineer, but an R.A.F. engineer. - using the letter R, requiring the almost vowel-like aaar' sound, also seems to require an an. It also works for the sounded letters F (eff) L (el) M, N, S, X. --Mcginnly | Natter 12:53, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Never use "a historical" (sounds like "ahistorical"); always use A History of. El_C 10:00, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

No, it doesn't, it sounds like "a hysterical". Always use "A hysteria of", as in "The Oxford Hysteria of English Poetry." Bishonen | talk 10:21, 23 January 2007 (UTC).

"Next came Pope and Dryden/ So I went underground./ Don't mess with the Mafia." Geogre 11:37, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Alkalada

You may be interested in the discussion about Alkalada on at User talk:Fred Bauder.--Isotope23 15:50, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

My email

Please note I have yet another new email address, the old one crashed along with the computer, so I've bought a new computer, it has a shiny curved screen to help my eyes and a key board shaped like a desert island, with keys that do amazing things - I do wish you coulds see it, I feel like I'm running a country sitting at it - I think I'll buy a new chair now to complete the image, one of those that massage while one types. I wish I had a big office with a huge window and balcony that looked out over Sydney Harbour (I bet Tony1 has one of those)or a penthouse looking over Central Park (like BoG) perhaps it would be cheaper just to have a new screen saver. I'll just have to look out of my very small window and wave at ALoan over the street; anyhow my point is if you ever need to contact me, you can through wiki-email. Love Giano 09:43, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

/me waves back. -- ALoan (Talk) 10:34, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Not sure what you mean

But I'd be more than happy to discuss it on your or my talk page. - Taxman 20:04, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Ouch, I'm already responding to mackensen... maybe some other time. Check your e-mail, please. That may make the difference between the center and the margin more clear. Bishonen | talk 20:14, 23 January 2007 (UTC).

Reading some further of your posts... I'm not just disappointed, I'm amazed that you keep it up about Giano "engaging in behavior as bad or worse than those you are pointing the finger at", while at the same time acknowledging that you don't know what the behavior of "those" was--and at the same time dismissing any need for my attempt to give you a sense of it. None of it of interest, then? Not my suggestion that people who actually consult the records come away muttering "I had no idea"? No concern with Kim Bruning's post above? Just Giano's "incivil" (pah!), so it's six of one and half a dozen of the other? Well, I'm past pretending to be sorry to have wasted your time; I don't think I took up a lot of it; I'm sorry to have wasted my own. I regret having expected to be read with interest. Forget it. I'm a slow writer, and I don't have any more time to spend in your "I know what they did/I don't know what they did" hamster wheel. Feel free to ignore my e-mail too. Bishonen | talk 23:08, 23 January 2007 (UTC).

And accountable behavior in a transparent medium on Misplaced Pages (where it can be quoted ad nauseum) vs. unaccountable behavior in a "you post it and I'll ban you" medium like IRC cannot be "equivalent" from the start. And three vs. one and one vs. three isn't equivalent, either. And editor vs. admins and admins vs. editor isn't equivalent. And "tell us to stop on this IRC channel you are supposed to be entitled to, and we'll threaten you" isn't the same as "Oh, go away from my talk page, you pissant," either. No, I don't think any disinterested and rational person could see them as equivalent. Geogre 11:27, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

LOL

Nice one. Me harassing him. Hilarious. --KonstableSock 04:32, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Your question

Further to your question yesterday, if you look at my exiting new page and follow the external link the lady you thougt was Mrs G, is in fact the Queen of Italy, an easy mistake! Giano 09:53, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Wow. Sorry about the "Mrs", you know what an ignoramus I am in these matters! Bishonen | talk 12:29, 24 January 2007 (UTC).

I'm sure "we" shall find it within "ourselves" to forgive you faux pas! Giano 12:34, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks very much for helping a fused and befuddled brain the other day (on Oriel College), I wish I had been in a brighter mood after my twelve hours ordeal work, but I was too keen on getting it done. Thanks.--Alf 11:40, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

No, no, thank YOU for insightful !vote here! Bishzilla | grrrr! 19:09, 24 January 2007 (UTC).

If you're inclined, I'm declined

I unblocked user:Mcginnly after David Gerrard blocked him. My reasoning for such is on WP:AN/I#Sockpuppet block of Mcginnly. I have to be away, now. If you're not interested, it's fine. The user set up the sock to pursue an RFC on how much minority point of view would be necessary in the Taj Mahal article, which is going to get worked up for serious review. Given that there are some minority points of view who feel that their nationalities and religious identities are invested in denying that the Taj was created for anything other than Hindu purposes, the matter is hot. I am surprised that David Gerrard, who is no stranger to hot topics, didn't investigate. Geogre 12:31, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh you are never around when you are wanted! Can someone (ALoan) spring the unfortunate McGinnly from prison as he is stll blocked inspite of being unblocked by Geogre ages ago Giano 13:40, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

It's resolved - many thanks. --Mcginnly | Natter 13:46, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

That's a relief, although I still don't know how to unblock properly, it seems. I'm such a n00b at the blocking stuff, and, really, why else would anyone be an administrator, as one person asked. Geogre 19:28, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

You did it properly, Geogre, but the redoubtable Autoblocker bit Mcginnly. To undo any autoblocks along with your standard unblocking, go here—very useful URL to keep handy somewhere—and fill in the data you have. One or two facts are enough, for instance the name of the blocker and the original blockee. Click on Submit query, and see a list. The original block should be on it. Click on that block's "Autoblock ID" link, and a self-explanatory page for unblocking will appear.

Mynde you, even if you do all that from the start, the Autoblocker may bite again later—not going into the "why", which is fuzzy to me anyway—and need to be released again. And guess what, every technical problem is ten times worse if you use AOL. Bishonen | talk 20:23, 25 January 2007 (UTC).

My only regret is that I was unable to vote in the Bishzilla RFA last night. It cheered me immensely to see such a laudible candidate proferred to the community's consideration. Such a shame it crashed and burned.rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRRRRRRRRRRAAAAGH! rage on zilla--Mcginnly | Natter 00:59, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Notwithstanding the closure, per WP:IAR, informal !votes are still being cheerfully accepted in this instance. :) Newyorkbrad 01:01, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

LOL! That is a classic RfA - "Oops. Zilla learning to hug little users more gently" - quick! someone add it to WP:BJAODN. Carcharoth 01:43, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

See User talk:Bishzilla for live coverage of these incidents as they happened. Newyorkbrad 01:44, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I see that this is already on BJAODN: here. Carcharoth 01:47, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Vanity? Border-line case?

I've had my eyes on something for a while, that I don't know really what to do with. It was a very obvious case of vanity writing. Two articles got deleted. Now one of the articles is recreated, and it looks much better. Whether or not the subject is notable enough for an article, I really can't say.

On svwiki, I would take it to SFFR (AfD). However, the AfD's that got the two articles in question deleted had like four people saying anything on the subject; I have difficulties in believing this is a good way of dealing with it. I am not sure if one should take actions to get the stuff deleted or not. In a way, there are things more important to take care of. OTOH, my knee jerk reaction from the clear vanity start is to remove the group of articles ASAP. I wrote some kind of recollection of it all on User:Habj/green burial stuff; you can take a look if you like (but I don't expect you to). // habj 12:56, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Resident deletionist? Take a look, please? Bishzilla | grrrr! 17:02, 27 January 2007 (UTC).

I weighed in, there. Basically, my view is that we treat individual company presidents if they make a splash as individuals. We treat individual practitioners of an industry when they are far ahead, first, or biggest. Otherwise, we cover the industry, not some dude at some company doing it. Well written or poorly written articles are irrelevant, if the subject is inappropriate, because Misplaced Pages articles are page rank boosts, and therefore articles are money. Geogre 17:40, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Two notes

Hi Bishonen. First of all, I'd like to offer my sympathies that Bishzilla didn't pass rfa; she would've gotten my support. Second, in response to your comment on requests for arbitration, I think it was The Land who unblocked Giano. Cheers, Picaroon 03:20, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh, right! I still think there were more admins there, though, jockeying with The Land for first place. And El C (one of Carnildo's original three blockees) later did of those clever one-second "that block reason wasn't true" blocks of Giano. As for the uppity young monster, I think we all had a very narrow escape there. Bishonen | talk 09:47, 29 January 2007 (UTC).

What you say! Bishzilla | grrrr! 09:48, 29 January 2007 (UTC).

My recollection is that there were three admins who undid the block within minutes — The Land, Geni, and Worldtraveller. I can't recall the order, though. You can see by checking the two other block logs, which have not been erased, and I'm pretty sure that I noticed before that it was the same three admins who unblocked all three blockees. Musical Linguist 14:43, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

It's sad but I can't remeber for sure who got their first either, I know I was very grateful to all three - god what a wiki-life changing moment that was! Giano 14:50, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

See here for the names of the unblockers. I believe The Land was first. Newyorkbrad 15:35, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Well if I had had half a brain I would have turned and walked away from this site there and then. Giano 15:37, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Nah. That whole dispute, while ridiculous, is far removed from what we are accomplishing here. Newyorkbrad 15:38, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

what makes you so sure? Giano 15:39, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

What exactly are "we accomplishing here" Giano 15:40, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, each of us must look within him or herself to answer that question. From my vantage point, the answer is supposed to be "writing an encyclopedia, educating others and ourselves, and, at the same time, having some fun and interacting with some interesting people." At the moment I can still say that that's my answer. But I can understand if it is no longer yours. Newyorkbrad 15:44, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Newyorkbrad about this. I discuss how I did this on my blog (an admittedly embarassing plug), and as a result my Wikistress was much reduced. Now if I could only deal with the other stress in my life . . . -- llywrch 21:07, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Dead right it is not my conviction, but now having seen what goes on at the higher level of the administration I cannot turn my back on it, rather like a civil rights lawyer returning to fight minor tax avoidance or royalties in the pop music industry Giano 15:47, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the support

here... much appreciated. ++Lar: t/c 03:47, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Recourse in the face of multiple serial bad edits?

Hi Bishonen,

A few days you visited Transcendental Meditation to disabuse me of the notion that 3RR did not apply to multiple serial bad edits that could not be considered to be "vandalism."

A new editor, BabyDweezil, has shown up recently on the "cult" pages and has been making multiple serial edits in violation of guidelines on four or five articles. Here is a recent example. He is starting to do this faster then we can revert it without 3RR'ing.

What recourse do we have? DR seems to be too slow, the articles could be in tatters by then. Thanks. Tanaats 02:11, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

I've left a note for the user to stop making far-reaching changes against consensus, and will keep an eye on what happens. It's really late at night where I am, so I haven't done much research yet. Please don't keep reverting, especially not to the point where you bump up against the 3RR. I don't think there's any real hurry—I know one feels that articles are being destroyed when something like this happens, but it's all still there in the history. The main thing is to make the user aware of policy in the matter of consensus, talkpage discussions, and unilateral changes, and persuade them to abide by it. I can see that the other editors have been arguing with BabyDweezil on Talk, which is exactly the right thing to do. The next step is also exactly what you did: contact an admin. We'll have to see if further steps turn out to be needed; I hope not. Bishonen | talk 02:59, 1 February 2007 (UTC).

A distorted account by Tanaats--that was the only large deletion i made, (not "a recent example"), i've explained all my edits, and have been thanked more than once for removing some flagrant un-Wiki material inserted over time by the very POV pushing bloc of editors who are now complaining. The claim that Ive made "multiple serial edits in violation of guidelines on four or five articles" is Tanaats opinion at best and an exaggerated fabrication at worst (and its such displays of drama substituting for simple facts which i have had to deal with of late in editing these articles). Please feel free to review my edits and the discussions. BabyDweezil 03:47, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Bishonen, yes the most recent example was the most egregious. Things are escalating. Previously I was dealing with multiple one-liners or one-paragraphers a day.

Thanks for the advice. I've taken my finger off of the revert button.

Thank you for taking an interest in this. Tanaats 04:26, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Help?

Can you try and sort this out Image:DSCN0455.JPG, I must have forgotten to name it properly - it looks like someone has uploaded a peice of furniture over the top of one of my buildings. Consequently Leighton Buzzard is now adorned with a cupboard instead of a bank, which is not advantagous to the page! Thanks Giano 11:18, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Are you sure it's not one of Philip Johnson's? --Mcginnly | Natter 11:51, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

I reloaded the image as Image:LBhighSt.jpg, in the hopes that a more specific filename will prevent this from happeneng again. KillerChihuahua 12:00, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Killerbaby - No to you too McGinnly it is definitly a rather nasty looking 1950s style chest of drawers. Giano 12:24, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

You stay out of Philip Johnson's drawers! Geogre 02:42, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Question on Cibber

I asked a question on Colley's talk page a while back. Just curious if you might know anything. Cheers, dear! *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 21:37, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Sorry miss it. Bishonen now posted ignorant reply. Bishzilla | grrrr! 22:50, 1 February 2007 (UTC).

Watch it, monster, or you'll be even sorrier. Bishonen | talk 22:51, 1 February 2007 (UTC).

Thank you

Thank you for the beautiful water fall, Spumoni has always wanted to be a wading bird. I seem to have misplaced Cecilia though, I think she took herself off shopping to Milano when all the troubles broke out. Giano 08:56, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

ApocalypticDestroyer's's appeal

Hi, Just letting you know that I have lodged an appeal at ANI on ApocalypticDestroyer's's behalf. Regards, Ben Aveling 08:49, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

What happens?

You get switched off, and probably held in contempt of court. Let me know when you want to impersonate a canary! Giano 21:18, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Switched off yourself! Bishonen | talk 21:22, 4 February 2007 (UTC).

On your own head be it! Giano 21:28, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Got an ethnic haircut in mind? Bishonen | talk 21:30, 4 February 2007 (UTC).

Tch...tch...tch......Giano 21:38, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

• This is a Sicilian who just got a haircut.
• This, on the other hand, is the sort of haircut I generally associate with the user in question, but it's a Brooklyn haircut. This, on the other hand, is the sort of haircut I generally associate with the user in question, but it's a Brooklyn haircut.
• First Sicilian to land on the moon

Article in need of cleanup - please assist if you can

The article Albion and Albanius, to which you have helped contribute, has been flagged as requiring cleanup. If possible, we would appreciate your assistance in cleaning up this article to bring it up to Misplaced Pages's quality standards. If you are unsure what the nature of the problem is, please discuss this on the article's talk page. If you do not want to receive bot-generated messages on your talk page, please consider using the nobots template on your user talk page

Restoration literature

Restoration literature has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here.

-- mattb @ 2007-02-06T06:11Z

Oh dear, Oh dear, Oh dear, I just popped over to see if you knew about poor Albion above (I seem to remember writing it for you one wet afternoon to fill in some red links on one of your pages) it now appears that even with Wetman's valued help we cannot write a proper page between us, and now poor old "Rest Lit". I'm trying my hardest to be good, kind and nice at the moment so I don't want to be the first to comment, perhaps if nodody comments it will all go away - I'm not very good with the ostrich technique either though - and all this smiling like jaws is starting to hurt my facial muscles. All very problematic, isn't it? Giano 08:48, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

PS: What I don't understand is surely it would be quicker to just clean a page up, than keep plastering these templates everywhere Giano 08:50, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, you need to wear a crocodile suit to clean up Albion, since you very kindly wrote it for Restoration spectacular, if you recollect. That may be the problem. I suppose I'll go see if the Copyedit Lite is warranted a little later. Inline cites for Restoration literature is a harder proposition, because Geogre don't want them, and decorating my drama section alone wouldn't be much use. I think I'll just wait for Geogrezilla to rear up out of the waves, I suggest you do the same. Mmmm, breakfast time. Bishzilla | grrrr! 09:29, 6 February 2007 (UTC).

I think the nomination is in bad faith. If we look, we will see the same fun faces making the same fun comments as ever. Explaining to such persons again why, again, their requirements are not the FA requirements is virtually useless, and the wider audience seems to have been driven away. What's worse is that there are "inline citations" in the article, but they're parenthetical reference, and I explained on the talk page to the article why there aren't more of them. To cite every citation that is internal to one of the blue linked articles would make for 100kb of references. Geogre 11:26, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Bad faith? Hardly; I haven't been involved in any of your previous discussions on this topic. It's just that FA standards as they are currently interpreted require a good amount of inline citations, which this article doesn't yet have. I think the article is fantastic, I'm just pointing out that it needs the citations to retain its FA badge. -- mattb @ 2007-02-06T16:31Z

Perhaps you'd like to point out the part of the policy that says this? Have you read the discussion on the talk page? --Mcginnly | Natter 16:42, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

I have to admit, I have only just read the recent traffic on Misplaced Pages talk:Featured article review, and I am beginning the see the WP:POINT. -- ALoan (Talk) 17:39, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

My particular favourite was It's a fine article, though, and surely shouldn't be knocked for having its shirt buttons foppishly undone. Quite clearly, the buttons are all there. qp10qp 12:10, 18 January 2007 (UTC) --Mcginnly | Natter 17:54, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Cross purposes, I think - that was on Talk:Restoration literature. -- ALoan (Talk) 18:22, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

I have composed a poem that I think hits the right note on this one:

So much depends
upon

an adverbial
phrase,

marred by flame
wars:

citations, "where
appropriate"

I haven't yet decided on a dedicatee, but am leaning toward George.

Regarding whether the nomination was good faith, Matt has said it was, so let's assume it was. Marskell 19:07, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Good faith or not, and I know nothing about English lit - I liked Enid Blyton as a child - and read Lady Chat as a spotty youth (vastly over-rated I never did find the very rudest bits) but, and I don't mean to be rude, but aren't poems supposed to rhyme? Giano 19:14, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Ha! Of course they are. But then they started teaching all this modernist rubbish. Marskell 19:20, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

For further information on modernist rubbish and the like, you may want to check out another un-footnoted FA, The Cantos and Objectivist poets. :-) *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 19:26, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh damn--no inline cites on The Cantos. Perhaps best not to mention it or people will get ideas.

To be serious about one thing: footnotes are a form of inline citation, not synonymous with inline citation. No one on FAR says "insufficient footnotes". All systems tend toward a norm, of course, and the little numbers are it with Wiki. But the Harvard style is arguably better with some of the Lit pieces that rely only on paper sources and is still perfectly acceptable. Marskell 19:50, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

If anyone even thinks about nominating The Cantos (ever) then Misplaced Pages deserves to die slowly and horribly, most horribly - consumed by its own ignorance! Giano 19:53, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

• Ok, perhaps it's a good faith nomination. Still, it seems like I, at least, am being called upon to deal death and destruction upon those I have already been on record as opposing. Basically, that article used its internal links for the most part. Let's put it this way (long version, be warned), I set out to write The Dunciad. I figured that I wanted an article on every one of the dunces. I used the DNB for the biographies. The DNB used the same sources that I've used in the past. Then there were all the works of literature, which I just read. So, then we get some really out of the way stuff, like Gondibert, which fairly no one in their right mind reads. I read about .25 of it, but the very beginning is a "preface" by Hobbes talking about how much he admires it. I was at one time reading up everything I could by D'Avenant, and one of his scrofulous sons. (I was doing that because I was researching Ombre, which I was doing for Rape of the Lock, and Charles Cotton wrote The Compleat Gamester, which I read and tried to decipher.) Anyway, so there is all of that. So, the article itself says, "D'Avenant tried the epic with Gondibert, which Hobbes praised." To what would I footnote? I already have a link to D'Avenant. I had woven in...somewhere... the "prefaces" and the debate over form. I think it was in Restoration poetry. At this date, I have to try to puzzle out and manufacture notes that would be both false and useless to satisfy people who admit that they don't know the subject? I suppose anyone could see why I'm not very eager. Geogre 01:57, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Oh, and here's a first, or at least a first in a while: I gave a civility warning to LuciferMorgan for the rather unpleasantly personal comments at FAR. It was one of those fragmentation grenade comments, and those can wake even me from my lethargy. Geogre 09:41, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
    • I did one myself, requesting either diffs or withdrawal of the lies. Yours was fine, Geogre, but in general I'm pissed off with the vague gesturing at "let's just get along", "let's all not say unkind things". I went specific. Bishonen | talk 21:46, 7 February 2007 (UTC).

• Mine was made before he made new ones. He should be blocked, since he went on after a warning to two attacks. One was aimed at you -- suggesting that you're Giano's puppet/and/or a bad administrator. Had I been able to sign in today, I'd have blocked him for that one. I was specific in referring to a specific edit of his, but it's clear that he's popping his cork entirely. My problem is, as you know, that I don't believe in blocking anyone for "personal attacks," but, given the way that the FAR is sidetracked, if not derailed into "What's bugging him," that's pretty disruptive. Everyone else has tried to address other matters, but he's going out of his way to disrupt the function of the page, so that's where I will block someone, only slowly. Geogre 02:30, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

• • Paul corrected me. In fact, his last nasty was before my warning, so at least I won't have to start blocking established people. Geogre 11:30, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the revert

here: could you email me what it said? I don't speak Danish (or Swedish, sources weren't cleare on which it was or exactly what it said... something about my mother maybe?)... I may well leave it there, if it's not totally outrageous, because I almost never revert things off my pages. But I really do appreciate it, even if I revert back. All the best. ++Lar: t/c 18:46, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Ha, Bishzilla wins, she's had a pool going on how long it would be before you asked...! That's Danish, I believe, or just possibly Norwegian. E-mail sent. Bishonen | talk 22:14, 6 February 2007 (UTC).

User:BabyDweezil has begun violating your Ban...

• Just a friendly heads up, it appears that User:BabyDweezil has begun to violate your ban on multiple pages, and continue to remove content from article mainpages, without achieving consensus on talkpages, whilst still giving highly inappropriate remarks in edit summaries... Might want to check it out. Yours, Smee 19:45, 6 February 2007 (UTC).

I would appreciate a review of my edits and a discussion which ones were inappropriate etc. In the meantime, Smee's incessant hounding of me and increasingly hostile behavior rather than discuss any of the changes I have made or respond to my reasoning is beginning to get annoying. BabyDweezil 21:03, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

• Here's a recent deletion. Tilman is only trying to restore material that BabyDweezil had deleted earlier without discussion. Tanaats 15:55, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I have discussed the edit at length. The editors who keep restoring it have offered no evidence in favor of keeping this fringe, ad hominen attack on a scholar in a "criticism" section. I would appreciate if editors spent less time posting notices that I have been "banned" all over talk pages (for just one example, ) and focused on making improvements to the article, as I have. Thank you. BabyDweezil 16:43, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

The Russian Orthodox Church is not "fringe", nor is Prof. Alexander Dvorkin, PhD. --Tilman 23:09, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

BabyDweezil, you are continuing with your practice of deleting well-sourced material without consensus. Tanaats 23:25, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

• Another. Tanaats 19:09, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
• Another. Tanaats 20:39, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
• A very serious threat to slash the Mind control article. Tanaats 21:12, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
• Threat to perform a unilateral deletion on Cult. Tanaats 21:18, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
• Bishonen, please protect Mind control. Tanaats 21:23, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
• Again.

I've no intention of protecting yet another page for the sake of one combative editor; on the contrary, I'm unprotecting Cult apologist now. Please see . Bishonen | talk 23:51, 7 February 2007 (UTC).

Bishonen, my log shows 15 edits that were made by BabyDweezil on Cult apologist without consensus. Do I have to worry about 3RR if I start putting the material back in? Tanaats 02:01, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes, you do. BD was editing unconstructively, but that still wasn't vandalism, what he was doing. Please assume good faith and try to make plans for compromise when he returns. I still hope there'll be room for it. Bishonen | talk 09:16, 8 February 2007 (UTC).

My block

A look at the discussions show the other editors are obstinately refusing to discuss the edits, stonewalling, responding to requests for comments with abuse, and are being serially uncivil. You, Bishonen, are being entirely biased and supporting the most blatant form of simple-minded POV pushing on Misplaced Pages by a handful of biased editors who resort to acting like crybabies and tattletales and offering exaggerated complaints, fabrications and outright lies rather than respond to requests to civilly and intelligently discuss articles. c'est la vie, see ya in a day or so. BabyDweezil 23:50, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

We will start afresh when he returns today. Thanks. Tanaats 18:20, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

TEH ZILLAS ARE BREEDING

I've moved the Bishzilla "RFA" here: User:Bishonen/Bishzilla RFA. For some reason it ended up listed on the main RFA page, probably because it shared the naming format of a legitimate RFA. Regardless, it was causing confusion, so it's best to be clear that it's a joke and name the page accordingly. --Cyde Weys 13:53, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Bishzilla is supposed to cause confusion. And panic. And massive destruction. --Ideogram 22:32, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Considering that the page was created by Bunchofgrapes, why wouldn't you move it to User:Bunchofgrapes/Bishzilla RFA or User:Bishzilla/Bishzilla RFA instead? Or perhaps its original title User:Bishzilla/Nomination. NoSeptember 13:58, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

I didn't know, nor particularly care, who originally started it, as my only goal was to prevent the confusion that having it listed under RFA space was causing. If you have a better idea for a location you are more than welcome to move it as you see fit, just so long as it doesn't go back under Misplaced Pages: space again. --Cyde Weys 17:07, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

So, you didn't know who made it, didn't investigate it, didn't know where it should go, but went ahead anyway? And you're sounding resentful of someone asking you to investigate before you act? Well, "why else would someone want to be an admin?" Geogre 21:24, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't get it. Someone who's username is obviously a pun, who so dislikes humour? Ben Aveling 21:42, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

• Oh hell, Christ! I had never realised it was a pun, why have I not seen that before....I have just seen it Cyde Weys - "Side Ways"...that's really very good..but why "side ways" Cyde? Giano 22:47, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

• Oh! - jump back in shock - Cyde! - double hop! I just came over here to see if anything intersting was happening - fancy seeing you here - have you joined - you'll have people talking about us - we can't go on meeting like this Cyde - but I do like a man with a pink signature ;-) Giano 21:43, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

A man said of someone, they "are not known for any extraordinary ebullitions of wit or mirth, and it is not prudent to try it upon them." Geogre 21:49, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

If only you had said before. -- ALoan (Talk) 21:54, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Wow, this conversation has been so consciousness-raising. --Cyde Weys 21:49, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

I quite like the Germans actually, I met one sitting next to me on a plane once - this is completely true - I promise - we were on our way to Geneva, and (as one does) he asked if I was on business, and I said - yes, and then being a well brought up person, I said "and yourself?" and he said he was going to see a specialist in Switzerland because he suffered from premature ejaculation - I opened my book and read it with fervour without looking up for three hours, but to this day I wonder was he joking? Opinions invited. Giano 22:01, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

If it's a valuable reference point, Omid Djalili the Persian comedian has said, "I'm the only Iranian comedian... Don't laugh! That's three more than Germany!" Pinkville 22:38, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps he found you distracting? ;) The Rambling Man 22:39, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Obviously, he, too, was thinking of blocking, although of extraordinary ebullitions or mirth. The real question, however, is what the Expert in Geneva was like, and whether or not he's the Ceiling Cat vandal. Geogre 11:34, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't think anything could possibly be more obnoxious than this section.

Except maybe stomping on Tokyo. --Ideogram 18:24, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

OMG. Run away!! Run away!!! -- ALoan (Talk) 18:52, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Help--an editor (Smee) is rampaging!! Eeek!

Kindly review the most recent edits by Smee, who is on a rather hostile rampage, blindly reverting edits by disfferent editors without explanations and with false claims of "vandalism. I tend not to want to "tattle" on editors, but this is ridiculous. BabyDweezil 04:22, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

And please review the recent spate of edits by said complainant above, who is going around spreading vandalism, removing text as well as sourced citations from articles, without consensus or discussion of any kind on talk pages. Seems to be a pattern... Smee 04:23, 9 February 2007 (UTC).

Hi Bishonen, here are some new edits by BD...

• Deleted the same ELs that he had deleted previously .
• His comment in response to my protest .
• Deleted the statement "This was in contradiction with police reports that had discovered at Aum's main compound in March, of a sophisticated chemical weapons laboratory that was capable of producing thousands of kilograms a year of the poison.".
• Another deletion .

* Deletion of an EL . Oops, that was only a move. Tanaats 05:20, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

About Keith Henson (I'll get to the rest later): BabyDweezil, I hope you've noticed that I'm in no hurry to label editing "vandalism" as long as it can possibly be construed as good faith. But carpet-bombing the article with {{fact}} tags as in this edit, including (for god's sake) the basic summary in the introduction, is IMO nothing less than vandalism. Please tell me what exactly in the intro you consider unreferenced, for instance. You're disrupting Keith Henson and heading for another block. As for Smeelgova, I would still advise him aginst using the word "vandalism" in edit summaries. It's a good principle. Bishonen | talk 05:18, 9 February 2007 (UTC).

Bishonen, have you read Keith Henson? Can yuo honestly tell me that that isn't perhaps the most extreme form of POV pushing, original research unsourced, overblown relative to importance personal essays masquerading as a biography on Misplaced Pages. It's so bad it's laughable, and some I'm vandalizing it by adding fact tags and removing pointless references that have nothing to do with, and source no claims in the article? BabyDweezil 08:22, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

• Duly noted, thank you I will take your advice under consideration. Here is some more evidence for you : DIFF Yours, Smee 06:05, 9 February 2007 (UTC).

• Re-deletion of "This was in contradiction with police reports that had discovered at Aum's main compound in March, of a sophisticated chemical weapons laboratory that was capable of producing thousands of kilograms a year of the poison.". Tanaats 06:14, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

• Lengthy PA. Tanaats 19:55, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

• Defense of his prior deletion of "This was in contradiction with..." (see above).. He is correct that the first few words were OR'ish, but he should have edited it rather than delete it. His consistent argument for many of his deletions is that it is not his job to fix things. Tanaats 20:54, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry

I'm sorry for what I said, and got the wrong end of the stick. I still don't see why you keep sticking up for Giano, as I've found him to be incredibly obnoxious to be honest, although I jumped the gun before he got the first punch in. This stems from the Palladian FAR, which I still don't feel should've been closed (but that's another story).

Anyway, as concerns your conduct as an admin which I got the wrong stick about... after the Palladian FAR, a few Wikipedians I don't speak to emailed me and said I'm best off steering clear of Giano and friends of his, and yourself was named. I'm not going to say what people emailed me, as they aired their views privately and I don't wish to lay the blame elsewhere as concerns what I said. Anyway, I browsed Giano's edit history, and there was some spat with a user called David something (Gerard possibly?) and another incident with Ideogram where you reported Ideogram's before - and well, thought, it must be correct then. And when I saw somewhere you'd unblocked Giano, I thought it must be true. I also figured that should someone annoy Giano, you'd get involved, and then they'd end up getting blocked. To be honest, I know admins can block people, but not much else. People are talking about IRC (Marskell tried explaining what it is a little, but I still haven't a clue what it is), de-sysopping (I don't know what this is, but I'm assuming it's where one would be stripped of their powers), RFA (??) and other things - I'm just a person who edits the odd article and hangs around at FAR, so I don't understand this language much. At the time, when I said what I said what I did I felt it to be true in my heart - I'd never knowingly say something false about a person, as I'm not that kind of person. I've since had time to consider what I said, and make more thorough inquiries into what I said. I feel really bad about the whole mess, and am extremely sorry for any offense or upset I may have caused you. If anyone questions your admin integrity in future based on this incident, I encourage you to email me and I'll back you up.

I'm extremely sorry the offer to accept an apology has expired, but I found the deluge of messages from various people (excluding yourself) on my page rather disturbing and frankly a little upsetting to be honest. It hurt, so my defense mechanism kicked in, and I'm sorry about that. I feel this is an issue between myself and you, and not all the other people who've left numerous messages on my page. While the situation is grave and rather serious, I don't feel they're helping the situation either. I'll admit that I'll never win a popularity contest on Misplaced Pages, but I thought other Wikipedians thought I was at least ok. It seems I'm not much liked though apparently, which I'm to mostly blame for really.

This isn't an attempt to lay the blame anywhere else, as I found your reply rather gracious under the circumstances. It took me by surprise really, as I'd found the incident a volatile situation from other quarters. It was commendable of you to keep level headed, and made me think twice of my previous judgment.

I wish for my apology to be seen as a sincere one, and not something that has been pressured out of me by the community. I'm not an insincere person believe it or not, and never have been. I don't wish to start now, but this apology is genuine. It comes from the bottom of my heart, and I hope you can accept it in that way. Anyway, I hope you take care, and really hope that you'll eventually find me to be a nice enough person, and not the one you may find me to be at present. Goodbye. LuciferMorgan 22:27, 9 February 2007 (UTC)