| Revision as of 23:47, 9 February 2007 editPaul August (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Administrators205,016 edits →A request: reply to Marskell← Previous edit | Revision as of 00:49, 10 February 2007 edit undoSandyGeorgia (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Page movers, File movers, Mass message senders, New page reviewers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers, Template editors278,950 edits →Thanks: my 2 centsNext edit → | ||
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| :I just want to echo the sentiments expressed above, and I sincerely hope that you may reconsider your decision to leave. Very best wishes,] ] 23:19, 9 February 2007 (UTC) | :I just want to echo the sentiments expressed above, and I sincerely hope that you may reconsider your decision to leave. Very best wishes,] ] 23:19, 9 February 2007 (UTC) | ||
| ::What's amazing about this whole affair is that the very people who should have learned something about poking and poking back and poking again don't appear to have learned anything about where that path leads. What is accomplished by having five, six (I've lost count) admins poke at Lucifer? Wasn't anything learned from the entire Giano affair? I understand Marskell and Yomangani commenting to Lucifer, because they have been involved with him at FAR. I understand Kirill commenting on the FAR, because he was the first admin to comment. After that, everything else amounts to the same kind of poking that hasn't worked well in the past. Sad state of affairs, this. Do people not have the ability to move along and get back to work/fun/play whatever they call this? Be well, Lucifer. And if you do come back, may I give you some advice? I will:-) You're going to get premature greys if you let one article or one editor or one FAR bug you so much. It's just an article; is the outcome really important enough to get upset over? And ... when people are kind, or displaying emotions of the kind I can relate to and understand, I try to remember the very real human beings behind the written word on the screen. When people are cruel or uncaring or arrogant or belittling or demeaning, I remind myself their words are nothing more than a collection of ASCII characters—I pass 'em right on by, and don't let them into my real life. Don't take the ASCII characters so seriously. I don't condone the tone you took on the FAR, Lucifer, but I think I understand the emotions you may have been feeling. As you can see from your talk page, it's not worth getting yourself tangled up in this sort of mess—comment on the work, not the people, if you decide to return. And avoid complicated people—on the internet, and in real life; they're not good for your health and longevity :-) Best, ] (]) 00:49, 10 February 2007 (UTC) | |||
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Slayer, In FlamesBecause later Slayer albums do not sound at all like thrash metal. And accordingly to In Flames, I have a point. There is no difference in calling them "melodic death" or "gothenburg", so, to avoid confusion, I switched it to Melodic Death. Still there is a debate about the genre because some people don't like "melodic death" appearing there. So this is not being disruptive, I am just trying to improve WP's articles. --Dexter prog 17:55, 3 February 2007 (UTC) AdviceHey Lucifer, i would like your opinion on Jeff Hanneman if you think its ready for GA. I also expanded Still Reigning from one paragraph and i think it's also ready, and could evnetually brought up to FA. So whenever you get the time, thanks M3tal H3ad 10:47, 5 February 2007 (UTC) FAREveryone's aware - messages on MilHist talk already. Let's stay out of it and let them settle it; also wait for Marskell or Joelr31 to surface and see what they want to do. We have to be careful about setting precedents. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:49, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
{{fact}} on Infinite monkey theoremRe this edit in which you undid my revert of your earlier edit: I concede that there is a quote which I hadn't seen because it follows the tag, and I apologize for that. Nevertheless, Template:Fact says that it is to be used for "to label a quotation which lacks a citation". However, this quote does have a citation: the text says it is by Cicero and which book it is in. So, what is it that you want? -- Jitse Niesen (talk) 23:50, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
Don't worry about that; lucifer is an old word for matches and everybody knows that they can get hotheaded ;) And it was really stupid of me not to see that a quote followed. The book is from the era of manuscripts. It does not have an ISBN nor page numbers (apparently, it is known when it's written, 45 BC if I remember correctly). That's why I thought that in this case, a standard citation would be silly. However, I now realize that it's not a quote from Cicero (who wrote in Latin), but a translation of a fragment from Cicero's book in English. So I guess we should mention whose translation it is. Hence I now agree that the citation is incomplete. -- Jitse Niesen (talk) 01:55, 6 February 2007 (UTC) Civility/disruption warningGiven your edit here, please be aware of the WP:NPA policy. When profanity and bitterness laced comments demonstrate an inability to participate objectively in an area of Misplaced Pages, it's best to not participate at all. When they show that grudges are in place, they render moot all other comments. In short, they ruin your credibility and can rise to the level of a block. Take a step back, please, and think twice. Geogre 09:38, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
ArguingLucifer, that you believe my reasoning was "rubbish" on Palladian architecture has been made abundantly clear. Your repeatedly mentioning it comes close to a personal attack—you're basically saying "you're lying", and I'm getting tired of it. On the literature review, nothing is going to happen in terms of article improvement if you must give a tat for every tit from Giano and others. I would consider just not looking at the comments for a couple of days. Marskell 09:42, 7 February 2007 (UTC) LiesHi, Lucifer. Those are some unreliable "sources" you throw about on FAR. "Silly me" is pretty much the only true part of this post, because it is pretty silly to rely on rumor and gossip. Please substantiate or withdraw your accusations that Giano is in the habit of calling for blocks, or that I've ever blocked anybody at Giano's request or suggestion. (Hint: those are lies. Giano doesn't believe in blocking for personal attacks, and I don't either.) Here's the log of blocks I've done. It contains the usual anonymous vandals, abuse-only accounts, abusive sock-puppets, and a few 3RRs—the kinds of blocks all halfway active admins perform. I haven't blocked any established users, or ever blocked anybody who was in conflict with Giano. You do realize these are serious accusations, I suppose? That they attack my admin integrity? Or don't you? This hypothesis of yours, sneeringly addressed to Giano, is even worse: "And if you felt sufficient cause for my blocking, you'd only inform your friend Bishonen to block me, who happens to also unblock you whenever another admin blocks you." I have in fact unblocked Giano once, when he was (amazingly) blocked for something he said in his evidence in an RFAR case. I'm not sorrry, as I'd do that for anybody. Here's the relevant log entry, which in your imagination becomes "Bishonen happens to also unblock you whenever another admin blocks you." I'm willing to assume that in writing these things you may have been misled by "friends" of your own. Or that you were in an, uh, less than responsible state of mind. Or that you simply, in your eagerness to attack people you saw yourself as being in conflict with, failed to notice yourself making these unprovoked insults against a stranger. I'm willing to take an apology. A good one. Bishonen | talk 18:44, 7 February 2007 (UTC).
ALoanWell, I am sorry you feel that way - there is a legitimate disagreement about the level of citation required for featured articles which has blown hot and cold over the last 2 years. I understand and respect your point of view, even though I disagree with it; I hope you would be able to do the same for people who hold a different opinion to you. On participation, I may not participate in every FAR, but I have been involved in FAR, FARC and FAC on a pretty regular basis since mid-2004. Yes, FAR (and FAC, and the rest of the Misplaced Pages namespace) are in the "basement" - they contain the behind-the-scenes editor-facing plumbing that underpins the reader-facing part (the main namespace). I think you ought to apologise to Bishonen for saying "you'd only inform your friend Bishonen to block me, who happens to also unblock you whenever another admin blocks you" as it is blatantly untrue - Bishonen does not block people when Giano requests (indeed, Giano does not ask Bishonen to block people); and (save for the one occasion mentioned above, which was unimpeachable) she has not unblocked Giano either. I can't make you apologise if you don't want to, but I hope you feel sufficient embarassed at making such wild and inaccurate accusations. -- ALoan (Talk) 15:34, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
MarskellLucifer, I accept your apology to me, but I'll tell you what: I think you do owe Bishonen an apology as well. IRC is the Misplaced Pages "Internet Relay Chat(s)"; see WP:IRC. Given that you're "clueless of" its nature, does it make sense to repeat innuendo and gossip surrounding it? You're admitting that you don't understand it at all, which proves that you were throwing uninformed accusations at Bishonen... Perhaps true, perhaps not—you don't know. And I'd suggest you not try to find out. Leave it be. It has nothing to do with FAR or any of the articles on it. Which leads to point two: each review, each talk page discussion, each new item anywhere on Wiki, must be treated as a tabula rasa. It's the hardest part of AGF, because personalities bring grudges and affection with them, but it's absolutely essential. The only thing relevant in deciding how to respond Bishonen (or me, or Giano, or whoever) is what has actually been said regarding the subject at hand on the specific page. Unless you're dealing with a vandal, there is never cause to refer to unrelated pages and discussions. Bishonen arrived on the review and was civil; be civil in return. Period. Marskell 20:17, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
YomanganiI feel like I'm labouring a point, but it is unacceptable to add lies and innuendo about anybody to any page regardless of what provocation you feel you were or are under. Bishonen had every right to demand an apology, and in the circumstances her message to you seems remarkably restrained. Take a few minutes to check the information that Bishonen provided you (or dig deeper if your prefer) and then look at your comments about her on the FAR. If you see anything to substantiate your claims then by all means don't apologize. I hope I'm uninvolved enough that you don't regard me as part of the team: I had nothing to do with the Palladian architecture FAR, and as far as I recall my only interaction with Bishonen is reading her S. A. Andrée's Arctic balloon expedition of 1897 article (which I recommend if you have a few minutes to spare). Yomangani 09:33, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
BishonenFor goodness' sake, are you guys still requesting an apology for me from LM? I appreciate the good intentions there, believe me — it's great to feel a little community support — but please do stop, I don't actually want it any more than he does. I said I'd take an apology — a good one — "good", surprisingly, means a prompt and gracious apology— I didn't say I wanted one — and I certainly don't want an apology poutingly and grudgingly extracted like a bad tooth. To "take" it was an offer on my part, not a request. Or a demand, or (for god's sake) a threat. The offer has expired. All I wanted for my own part was a retraction, by no means an apology. I wanted for LM to click on the links I provided, to spend 30 seconds reading the block log, and to retract the allegations. Instead he has chosen to fully "stand by them," with no explanation of why they're still supposed to be good, no comment on the trashing of my admin record, no indication that he's looked at the links illustrating that record. See, that's outrageous, IMO. LM, never mind about apologizing, you're quite right it wouId be difficult to take as sincere. As for the rest of your commentary on this page, you feel you would have returned "her" bucket and spade by now if everybody wasn't being mean to you, do you? And you feel as if you're entitled to them because she'd probably only bonk you on the head with them anyway? You know what? Keep 'em. Please. Bishonen | talk 18:12, 9 February 2007 (UTC) A serious chargeThe charge you make against Bishonen here, is a serious one. Serious enough that, if true, it might be cause for de-sysopping. If you no longer believe that statement is accurate, then It would be a good idea for you to correct it. Paul August ☎ 18:46, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Keep: Not this argument again? First, repeating your view won't help, LM. Second, the interpretive elements here are very, very, very much not things requiring footnotes. If I cite that a bridge went up in 1740, then that it had traffic of 30,000 drays a day by 1750, and then I say, with no citation, that the bridge was vital for the city's growth, it's just a syllogism. There is no citation needed for the third statement. It can be disagreed with but it cannot be called unfounded. It has the limitation of conclusions from presented data, but not of being "some dude's opinion." This is the distinction between encyclopedia writing where a thesis is coherently and cogently argued and a nervous drudge's regurgitation of the library stacks.
A requestSince given this edit, you seem to no longer believe that what you wrote here is accurate, I think that it would be helpful if you would amend what you wrote. We all make mistakes, and it is good when we discover them that we do what we can to fix them. Paul August ☎ 23:02, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
ThanksJust seen the note on your main user page. I just wanted to say thanks for all your recent help with my articles, and I hope maybe you come back to Misplaced Pages. Angmering 22:28, 9 February 2007 (UTC) Add mine for the help you have given to us at The Beatles WikiProject. LessHeard vanU 22:43, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
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