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Revision as of 06:52, 11 February 2007

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This page is for urgent incidents or chronic, intractable behavioral problems.

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• Should comments made using LLMs or chatbots be discounted or even removed?

Killed in action

John Wallace Rich (talk · contribs) is disrupting the page Killed in action as evident by the history, who seems to think he owns the article and is reverting all attempts by other editors to improve it by making it in line with the WP:MOS. So far he has used two meatpuppets/sockpuppets (one was admitted on the talk page, I believe, where he said he would ask a friend to help him out), KSCHO (talk · contribs) and Andrewrhchen (talk · contribs). I don't feel the user should be blocked indefinitely or anything like that as he seems to be acting in good faith, but he doesn't seem to be listening to reason. I'm therefore bringing this issue here. Cowman109 22:49, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

And it appears he has just broken WP:3rr by reverting multiple users once more. Could someone please look into this situation? Thanks. Cowman109 03:13, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

At this point I really don't think he's operating for the good of Misplaced Pages. He has his preferred version and he's going to do everything he can to keep reverting to it. --Cyde Weys 03:14, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I still think he's acting in good faith, but it's just that it's a disruptive good faith that he does not understand. I believe the user also has a conflict of interest as he mentioned somewhere that he is either a member or a founder of one of the foundations for the relatives for those killed in action, so this is a sensitive issue. Cowman109 03:18, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I've done what I can. He's past the 3rr and will not respond to the talk page. Material he keeps adding is irrelevent to the topic of the page. Mystar 04:19, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

This guy is taking up a huge amount of attention and resources. I do believe he is acting in good faith, but I believe he has personal issues and at some point we have to cut our losses. --Ideogram 05:20, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Can someone please look into this? The user has taken to editing with an IP now and calls other edits vandalism that reverts his (and has called another sysop a 'vandal' in the past to put things into perspective). He is unwilling to listen to reason and believes that he owns the article. Thanks. Cowman109 21:58, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

It appears this user has already been blocked for 24 hours, and then extended to 1 week for evading that block. HighInBC 22:04, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

A meatpuppet of John's, KSCHO (talk · contribs) had taken to reverting the article for him. The user is a friend or colleague of John's, I believe it was confirmed, and as is clear by his contributions, his only edits are to that article as a single purpose account. Cowman109 04:01, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Blocked. Confirmed meatpuppet with admitted intent to carry on edit war. pschemp | talk 05:37, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

User making personal attacks on his talk page. Block extended. pschemp | talk 14:29, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Just a note, this user is now name dropping Brad's name apparently in an attempt to get unblocked or make a veiled threat and talking vaguely about "we" (his foundation?) and how wikipedia is responsible for libel. none of this bodes well for his editing future. pschemp | talk 21:38, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

He just doesn't get it. He and Misplaced Pages will part ways, it's only a matter of time. --Ideogram 21:40, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Could someone point me to the diffs showing uncivil activity after his one week block? He's contacted me by E-mail, asking for help in getting unblocked. (As I don't think I've interacted with him before, he may have contacted a number of other Admins.) I see a probable violation of WP:LEGAL, (as noted by pschemp above), but nothing I can be sure of as being uncivil. — Arthur Rubin | (talk) 19:18, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

He said he didn't contact any other administrators at this time, but that he also sent a fax to the Foundation. — Arthur Rubin | (talk) 17:08, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Never mind. I read the history, and I see the violations on his talk page. If his E-mail is to be considered an unblock request, I'd deny it. His best bet is to cool off for the block time, not incite friends to edit on his behalf, and remember to speak civilly, especially to those he considers "the enemy". — Arthur Rubin | (talk) 18:06, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

User:Paulley

After an article about a UK wrestling promotion was involved in was deleted yesterday, he's now gone on a mass prodding spree of other wrestling promotions. There seems to be no reasoning behind his choices, some have been recently prodded (and one that just survived Afd and is referenced) so he's not checking page histories. It seems to be disrupting Misplaced Pages to make a point to me. One Night In Hackney 14:18, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Well to my defence i am infact following a suggestion made by One Night In Hackney on the said afd. I admit i did prod one article i shouldnt have, and after checking history of some of the articles i realised there where previous attempts.. but they are only prods and if they were saved before they will be saved again. No harm, no foul -- Paulley

In my defence I'd have hoped you'd have given each article a thorough inspection before decided to prod, but 33 articles prodded in 10 minutes tends to suggest otherwise. One Night In Hackney 14:35, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

32 in 13 minutes to be exac (PCW Uncut Championship was a category change not a prod)... and even you must admit so far you have found only around two which you believe should be contested meaning 30 of those prods you agree with ... Its not a point it's a nasty job someone has to be cold hearted enough to do -- Paulley

I agree that it was a mass prodding spree and questionable. While he tagged it instead of prodding, United Wrestling Association had survived AFD in Nov and has been reworked and improved. This is all dubious considering it looks retaliatory considering Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/Varsity_Pro_Wrestling. STFmaryville 12:55, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes i saw that it had survived its afd (with a no consensus) and that's is why i didnt prod it. In my oppinion the article, though reworked, is still a large amount of listcruft. Independent promotions should not list rosters as they are independent workers and not strictly signed to that promotion. --- Paulley 13:08, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Then why aren't you deleting the listcruf instead of deleting the articles? TheNewMinistry 17:52, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

If only the companies with wrestlers signed exclusively are allowed roster lists, one company in the U.S. will be allowed a roster list. Regardless of that, and changing the subject back to you, the accusation that you went prodding & tagging wrestling articles with little or no consideration to make a point seems plausible. STFmaryville 06:17, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

NLP (Neurolinguistic Programming) update. Incivility and continued suppression of information

Hello all. The recent ANI notices seem to be helping to maintain the basic science facts in the Neurolinguistic programming article. There still seems to be a strong and coordinated resistance to collaboration or presenting the main criticisms in a summarized form “in a balanced manner and that each is summarized as if by its proponents to their best ability.”.

Similar to IP user 58’s edits, Comaze (who seems to have a clear and definite COI) is continuing removing the main criticisms from the lead section .

They are still removing reliable published peer review sourced edits by persistently and often uncivilly calling me a sockpuppet and a troll. I've complied with the Misplaced Pages policy on sockpuppeting and not taken this personally. I also believe my edit record is sound and speaks for itself and shows that I am editing constructively long term on my own whilst appealing for civility and collaboration. This has already been discussed here with Guy giving his view and then Woohookitty (who has long experience of mentoring the article) giving encouragement to continue summarizing according to NPOV on my talkpage .

Meatpuppetry looks more probable within the pro NLP group. There are single or virtually single use accounts eg using similar arguments and language. They are definitely ignoring my voice and some have stated they deliberately intend to. I am also complying with the relevant sockpuppetry guidelines in this regard .

Regarding the constant allegations of sockpuppetry. I understand that neutral administrators can block sockpuppets at their own discretion . If any neutral administrator considers me to be contravening sockpuppetry regulations then feel free to block me. Similarly if any neutral administrator considers me to be trolling please take the appropriate action or notify me here or on my talkpage. Also if any neutral editor feels that I am dong anything that is not constructive – again feel free to post here or on my talkpage.

Pro NLP editors seem to include views – yet present them in a selective and often non-sequitur order in order to negate criticism . Thus they tend to edit defensively as has been identified in the Cleanuptaskforce assessment. The pro NLP arguments have been presented using OR and are certainly unencyclopedic. Critical views are being suppressed from the lead and the main body of the article. I have had a look at the other subsidiary NLP articles and they follow the same pattern. They also tend to spread critical comments around which makes the article look even more like an argument or debate and less encyclopedic. There seems to me to be a strong reluctance to make straight reports of NLP. They are still reluctant to remove debate or argumentative edits from the article . As shown above they are also persistent in suppressing the critical science point of view . There is a strong tendency for pro NLP editors to present research speculation as conclusion (selective editing) .

Despite the currently dismissive and uncivil actions of the pro NLP group – I would not ban or block them or apply page protection. I would give them another opportunity to make some effort to get along without intervention from outside. I believe that its more constructive (actually necessary) to continue to apply scrutiny and to encourage editors to get along and edit in a more collaborative fashion long term. AlanBarnet 03:13, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

• AlanBarnet is viewed by six independent regular editors as a bannable sockpuppet of long-term abuser HeadleyDown. This is AlanBarnet's 7th effort gaming WP:AN/I . No-one has corroborated any of his highly creative stories -- ever. The current success of the NLP article is due exclusively to other editors indepedently conceding that the only way to deal with AlanBarnet is to ignore. AlanBarnet's talk page shows him exhausting all user patience one-by-one over the course of two months. It seems to be a game to AlanBarnet/HeadleyDown to play with people's sincerities. 203.212.143.167 08:29, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Hello user 203.212.143.167. I'm glad you replied. I believe you havn't quite grasped the reality of the situation. Of the six editors you present above, one is just a single use IP user (74.38.250.5) as is yourself (I'm assuming your present IP is also 58.179.191.108). JBhood is not a regular editor at all and could well be a meatpuppet also. Fainites is a single use account and seems to me to be strongly averse to admin suggestions. Comaze and Doc pato seem to have obvious conflicts of interests. Your edits seem to be the most argumentative and OR in order to suppress criticism. Your edits seem to show that you are calling me a sockpuppet and a troll in order that the article is prevented from being presented "in a balanced manner and that each is summarized as if by its proponents to their best ability.”.

Even though you seem to be persistently and quite incivilly suppressing information in order to promote NLP, I am doing my best to collaborate both here and on the NLP talkpage in the spirit of Misplaced Pages in order to get on with editors of various worldviews. I see no problem at all with pro NLP argument as long as it is sourced and "summarized as if by its proponents to their best ability" as per NPOV policies. You and other editors on the NLP article really do seem to have a problem with summarizing the critical science views towards NLP though. I encourage you to collaborate with myself and any other constructive editor in presenting the article according to NPOV policies. AlanBarnet 09:17, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

No, I am not a meatpuppet. I came across the HeadleyDown issue through random surfing, and have followed the whole dismal saga on and off since then. AlanBarnet is HeadleyDown. That in itself would merit a block, although on the other hand the other editors' current "ignore and revert" approach might produce more desirable results in the long run. Not really for me to say, since I am not interested in editing the NLP article, but it would make sense to either block AlanBarnet or to ignore him on this noticeboard just as on the other pages. Jbhood 10:33, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Jbhood. Ignoring AlanBarnet/HeadleyDown on the NLP page is working quite well. Fainites 15:56, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Could either of you sum this up in a sentence as to why this all any of this requires administrative attention? I have seen this, but I had no idea what was going on until "NLP" was written out in full.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 09:28, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes Ryulong. Thanks for the reply. The pro NLP group seem to be persistently suppressing critical science views on NLP, being uncivil, refusing mediation or arbitration, and displaying meatpuppetting/COI characteristics - and though presenting diffs here is preventing total OR - there still seems to be a pressing need for the pro NLP group to be somehow encouraged into civil acceptance of editors such as myself in order that the critical science views be presented properly without domination， WP:OWN，　or suppression. AlanBarnet 10:08, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Ryulong, none of this requires administrative attention (save for a sockblock on AlanBarnet/ HeadleyDown), nor does it get any. See Fainites 16:06, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Blocked.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 07:10, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Ryulong. He'll be back though.Fainites 13:39, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Yep. I do want to apologize if it seems like I "dropped the ball". Some of the NLP had brought this to my attention awhile back but I had SUCH a bad experience as a mentor that I just didn't want to get involved. And I know that the NLP editors understand that as they haven't really been a bother at all. But still. I should've let another admin know sooner. So. I apologize if this lasted longer than it should have. And yes. He'll be back. --Woohookitty 18:37, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Ok Woohoo. Actually the ignore and revert policy worked quite well but it was pretty tedious and distracting. Thanks for your help. Fainites 21:29, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

You really need to learn about RBI—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 06:20, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Hello all. Actually I never left (Misplaced Pages) and probably never will. As you can see from my contributions my role (habit) is basically to cleanup/correct argumentative or unencyclopedic writing and help admin and other editors to notice and change information suppression on a wide variety of articles.

Its quite a relief you got round to blocking me from the NLP article. I thought you were slipping after I made myself so obvious both here and on the article. Rules are to be followed after all. Well, I understand the reluctance of some admin to block me was due to the hope for someone to civilly put long term COI information suppressors in their place. Not an easy task though. A single editor such as myself doesn't stand a chance against such a group. But long term notifications can be helpful . . I may post on the ANI again in future. If I appear on the NLP articles again I'll make myself just as obvious in discussion style and IP range. Right now it looks like far too much work for any NPOV oriented editor to manage though (my hat goes off to anyone who tries).

I may also appeal against my block but only if it helps make other admin usefully aware of the long term problem of critical information suppressors such as FT2 on Zoophilia and NLP (COI issues), Comaze (.com) and co on NLP related articles and so on. That was a pretty snappy cover-up, FT2.

I've enjoyed applying NPOV guidelines (in various incarnations) on the huge and fascinating diversity of subjects that Misplaced Pages has to offer and I'll continue to help you out in that way wherever I can. Regards Headley (Weiqing) 144.214.237.196 06:52, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Motion to ban User:Sarvabhaum

I think the time is up to ban Sarvabhaum (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). He has persistently edit-warred on Kannada-Marathi pages such as Belgaum, Seuna, Rashtrakuta, Chalukya, and has been blocked for 3RR many times. However, he has continually created sockpuppets whilst under block - Misplaced Pages:Requests for checkuser/Case/Sarvabhaum - persistently, and continually uses his IP range 59.95.... to revert the same articles over and over again. His block has been renewed and lengthen many times, but it is simply obvious that he will keep on coming back. see Sarvabhaum back (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) and Vishu123 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) and Itihaas (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). Blnguyen (bananabucket) 08:07, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Sarvabhaum000000 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). Blnguyen (bananabucket) 08:11, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

According to me, banning the user is not going to achieve anything. He is shameless enough to run the gauntlet and edit anonymously, create sock/meatpuppets and other ways of bypassing bans. He appears to be playing to a gallery, though I am not sure which one, since many Marathi people have rejected his/their fanaticism as well.

The Belgaum article (his/their favourite hunting grounds) is in a pretty stable/credible state right now (apart from our friend's edits), so I think just locking down the article for a few months would solve the problem much more effectively. This guy appears to be a college student, and in a few months is going to be facing exams and will have other things on his mind.

Some info: 59.95.x.x is the ADSL pool of BSNL, India's largest (and Government owned) ISP. Unless the ADSL modem is rebooted for some reason, the address tends to remain the same over long periods of time - but is still a dynamic one.

Achitnis 09:29, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

His edit-warring was not limited to just Belgaum article. It included Chalukya dynasty (an FA), Vijayanagara Empire (another FA), Rashtrakuta, Origin of Rashtrakutas, Seuna Yadavas of Devagiri, Belgaum border dispute, Kannada language, Marathi language, and probably many more. Locking down articles because of a single editor, defeats the fundamental purpose of WP, ie, any article can be edited by anyone, anytime. - KNM 13:41, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh, I didn't mean my comments to be a vote, which is why I didn't tag them as such. This was meant to merely be additional information related to the case. I am merely pointing out that given my experience with said individual, banning him (which I support, and will say so below) will achieve nothing. I am aware of the fundamental principles of WP, and am not saying that the article(s) shouldn't be updated, but isn't that what we have semi-protection for? Works fine in just about every case that it has been applied. Achitnis 11:47, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

• Strong Support for Permanent Ban. The user has been advised not to create more sockpuppets to evade his block, but he is just ignoring that caution carelessly and creating a heap of sockpuppets. The category Category:Wikipedia_sockpuppets_of_Sarvabhaum is growing almost everyday, without adding any value to the purpose of Misplaced Pages project.

When his block was extended for 6 months, he was even given warning that he would be blocked permanently if he creates more socks, but still he has continued evading his block by creating more socks. Also, if we see the edit history of that user, it is very clear that, right from the beginning all his edits were involving controversies or just plain reverts (was blocked for WP:3RR several times), and we hardly see any useful contributions. Considering these points, I don't see any valid reasons why he should not be banned. - KNM 13:30, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

• Support - This user has been disrupting these articles for quite some time now. It is time the community bans him from wikipedia. - Aksi_great (talk) 13:45, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

• Support - This user had been reverting articles according to his whims and fancies. Support permaban. Gnanapiti 15:35, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

• Support - Enough said. Sarvagnya 16:21, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

• Support - The sole purpose of this account seems to be to indulge in disputes. He has been voilated 3RR multiple times, and created a whole bunch of socks to evade blocks. -- Naveen 16:38, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

• Strong Support to ban Sarvabhaum. People who dont respect the wiki system have no place on wikipedia. This should send a strong message to future vandals as well. I request wikipedia authorities to contact BSNL and see if his internet access can be banned in any way. He is still warring.Dineshkannambadi 16:46, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

• Support, and in addition recommend semi-protection of targeted articles for a while. Achitnis 11:50, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

• Support - I used to be sympathetic to the Marathi users, but Dinesh's FA's have proven that his argument is well sourced and probably true while sarvabhaum is acting like BhaiSaab (talk · contribs).Bakaman 23:40, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Electronic voice phenomenon

An editor is repeatedly removing POV and disputed tags during a dispute, instead of following dispute resolution and discussion. Also, he is insulting me when he removes the tags.-MsHyde 09:05, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Note that this user has been warned several times about the misuse of such tags (see User talk:MsHyde), and has tried to use at least four different versions on this one article after encountering resistance. I have removed the tags because they have no need to be there. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 09:12, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

No, I have never placed a POV tag or a disputed tag before. Or a content policy dispute tag. Someguy keeps removing tags rather than discussing, also calling me names when he does it. This article is very unstable according to a previous editor, and there has been a persistent POV problem, with one side feeling bullied out: http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Physics#Electronic_Voice_Phenomenon -MsHyde 09:17, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Just because you have yet to misuse these specific tags does not mean you haven't misused others. Likewise, you add the tags without noting the problem. You just think its there and expect others to get what it is. As for the other thing, I have commented on your behavior, this is true, because you refuse to stop. You merely pick a new tag and go with it when you're denied on another. I have explained to you why you're misusing the tags, yet you do not stop. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 09:20, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I have appropriately used the unreferenced tag many times. The disputed tags are not being misused at EVP--there is a dispute. You should not be removing the tags during the dispute, or insulting me. My concerns are clearly stated on the talkpage, and in the discussions at the science help desk, the physics project, and OR--all places you have followed me to argue, rather than let anyone give an outside opinion. You are well aware that there is a dispute, and why. Removing the dispute tags and insulting me will not resolve the dispute. The tags should remain so that others are alerted and can comment.-MsHyde 09:26, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

There is no dispute about the page, there is a dispute about the tags. You have not listed what parts are POV and you have only listed one inaccurate sentence, which is anything but. You need to explain why the tags are necessary before they are used, and I have refuted your current arguments for your previous tagging. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Someguy0830 (talk • contribs) 09:30, 9 February 2007 (UTC).

There is a dispute on multiple grounds, which you are well aware of. Removing the tags will not resolve the dispute. Others should be alerted so they can participate.-MsHyde 09:34, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

• Note: now he has violated the 3 revert rule, to remove the disputed tags.-MsHyde 09:38, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

As have you. Don't play wikilawyer unless you're in the clear. We really shouldn't be arguing here. Adding the tags does not create the dispute, either. Let me get to the point. Tell me what is wrong with the article. Specifically. Go to the talk page, outline your problems, cite sentences, note errors, the whole shebang. Just knock it off with the tag pestering. Do me and anyone else who might be paying attention a favor and tell us why you're so damn eager to add these tags instead of spending two minutes to actually fix something. Your behavior is incredibly frustrating, because the few times you actually do this you don't even listen to the people telling you why you're misguided on the particular issue. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 09:41, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

No, I have not violated 3RR, only you have. And you have insulted me. And you have followed me around, arguing, and then claimed you were unaware there was a dispute. If you are not blocked by someone here for 3RR, I will make a 3RR report.-MsHyde 09:45, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

• Original version
• Revert 1
• Revert 2
• Original version
• Revert 3
• Revert 4
• Revert 5

WP:3RR: "An editor does not have to perform the same revert on a page more than three times to breach this rule; all reverts made by an editor on a particular page within a 24 hour period are counted."

Do not lie. I am no better, but I do not hide this fact. Please, just explain what's wrong with the page. That's all I ask. For the sake of both our sanity, please do this. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 09:53, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Only you have breached 3RR. I placed the noncompliant tag, you reverted, I requested outside comments and then placed POV and disputed tags, you reverted 4 times:

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Electronic_voice_phenomenon&diff=106796623

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Electronic_voice_phenomenon&diff=106797430

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Electronic_voice_phenomenon&diff=106798182

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Electronic_voice_phenomenon&diff=106801076 -MsHyde 09:58, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

WP:3RR: "An editor does not have to perform the same revert on a page more than three times to breach this rule; all reverts made by an editor on a particular page within a 24 hour period are counted." Can't you read?

I'm getting nowhere. I give up. If you're not willing to discuss things rationally, fine. An admin can settle this. I'll only ask you one more time. Please go to the talk page and outline your problems. Do this and I will not fight you on this issue. Please, just do this. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 10:02, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

As I have repeatedly pointed out, I have clearly outlined my concerns to you on the talkpage, and at OR, at the science help desk, where you followed me. You have continually removed the dispute tags rather than dicuss, and you have repeatedly insulted me--in your edit summary, and even here "can't you read" etc. I have reported you to 3RR.-MsHyde 10:08, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

The pair of you: please make your way to Misplaced Pages:Resolving disputes rather than throwing mud at each other here. You're both cruising for trouble at the moment and it would be best if you resolved your issues instead. 〈REDVEЯS〉 10:10, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Honestly, my patience has just run thin and I apologize. I just want some reasoning. All I want to know is what's POV and what's inaccurate, which I feel hasn't been adequately done. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 10:20, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Someguy0830 isn't the only person that's had his toes stepped on, intentionally or not. MsHyde has come into disputes with a number of editors. She's posted many a time to various help and policy pages; see her contrib list. She's also become a lightning rod on her talk page. I'm not saying all this as an attack though I can certainly understand if it's perceived as such. I just wish MsHyde would ease a little more gently into Misplaced Pages; I don't think I'm alone in that sentiment. Read the comments others have left for her and judge for yourself. Thanks, Lunch 21:23, 9 February 2007 (UTC) (A bot wiped out my comment. Weird ... no edit conflict notice.)

Lunch is bizarrely unable to give up a grudge he developed after I placed a reference request tag at Nixie Tube--he repeatedly reverted the tag, and did not stop until someone else reverted him and told him the tag was both appropriate and a good idea: http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Nixie_tube#references_tag He appears to have taken the tag placement personally, although it was the result of random button editing, and has harassed me ever since. Completely inexplicable.

Regarding Someguy, I have learned that the problems at Electronic voice phenomenon are so entrenched and longstanding that other editors believe the POV issues should go to Arbcom, and someone else has added additonal reverts Someguy made today to the 3RR report, which has still not been reviewed by an administrator. I want to be optimistic, but frankly this place seems completely insane, so far. :-)-MsHyde 04:23, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Your comment makes it difficult to help you. I'm digging through the diffs on the page, from the first example listed above as 'original version'.I have seen NUMEROUS tags applied by Ms. Hyde. Although some, like the tagging of the audio file, seem to have produced consensus results, others seem only to be about antagonizing others. I note that SomeGuy repeatedly asked you to explain yourself, to which your reply was at least once 'there is a dispute'. That's not helpful to anyone in making clear your objections. I noted that SomeGuy, by working back and forth across edits with OTHER editors, found what I see as an excellent, NPOV means of distinguishing between mainstream scientific experiments and those conducted by 'paranormalists'. I think he chose "Scientific experiments did not find any anomalies that fulfill the characteristics of EVP. Informal experiments, on the other hand, recorded anomalies which, upon analysis and listening tests, seemed to the experimenter to". This seemed excellent to me, and then we get into the issue of the WP:COI, which is separate and distinct, and easily dealt with. Such COI on a problematic page should result in that editor (Tom Butler) being asked to stay away from COI pages, and then if needed, enforced by a brief block for the editor to engage in policy studies. It is regretable that later, someone esle insisted on a change in the wording, and then SomeGuy removed a big section, resulting in a LESS clear version.

I do note that in diffs such as this:, MS.Hyde's claims of NPOV seem to be LESS NPOV. 'An Audio Sample' is far more clinical than 'sounds', FOR THIS TOPIC. Because EVP is ABOUT the understanding, veracity, and nature of a certain set of audio phenomena, Editors should work carefully with descriptions of sound. Were things in this article regularly referred to as 'the voices', many editors would justifiably argue.

In summary, there is some definite conflict here. Neither side is innocent, but I do see more community relations and team and consensus building from Someguy. Ms. Hyde, meanwhile, seems fairly intent on seeing her viewpoint pushed. Both need to work on their patience, but Ms. Hyde would do well to get her incivility under wraps. ThuranX 04:54, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

I am new to this article, and according to a longstanding contributor:

"Edit/revert wars have proven inadequate for bringing this article to compliance. Given the history of this article and the current choreographed effort of POV pushing by EVP proponents, the best course of action may be arbitration. --- LuckyLouie 20:49, 9 February 2007 (UTC)"

It is not simply my perception that there is a POV pushing problem at this article from EVP proponents, it is the perception of a longstanding editor. It also appears that another longstanding editor who has tried to counter EVP POV, ScienceApologist, is on break, which probably created a sort of vacuum. Someguy has continued to revert two editors--me and Milo H. Minderbinder--today. The issue of COI is not separate and distinct, as Someguy emails with Butler, and appears to agree with Butler that stating the scientific point of view is "disparaging" to EVP proponents. Removing POV tags on the grounds that the dispute wasn't stated is patently ridiculous, as Someguy followed me to OR and the science desk and was well aware of the terms of the dispute. And no, "informal experiments" is not NPOV, and it is a violation of WP:FRINGE, as I have stated on the talkpage. If you look through the history of the artcile, something I have now done, the same POV issues about the same wording have come up before. Violating 3RR to remove dispute tags about issues which have already been contested seems like bad faith. (ScienceApologist went on break, the article slunk into a POV version, I happened by and raised objections which had already been raised. Someguy fought to keep the objections from being raised and attacked me on personal grounds "you are being childish" "you tag too much" when he was well aware that that there had already been objections to precisely what I objected to.) There is a longstanding POV problem at this article, and it should probably go to Arbcom if LuckyLouie thinks so. In the meantime, attacking me personally or violating 3RR to remove dispute tags will not mask the longstanding POV problems, and is not helpful. In addition, since Someguy continues to "own" the article, and reverts any edits made by me or Milo H. Minderbinder, I find it particularly unhelpful that no one has addressed the 3RR complaint.-MsHyde 05:34, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

First, you are woefully mistaken. I may have reverted Milo once, and unintentionally at that. I've only reverted you intentionally. As Thuran points out, I've been trying to get it fixed. You have not. Second, I'm not putting up with this e-mail nonsense. E-mails with Butler? Who are you to say I've been e-mailing anyone? Do you have proof, or are you throwing accusations about randomly? I won't stand for that. Unless you have proof, do not assume I e-mail anyone. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 05:51, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it is Martinphi who says on the talkpage he has emailed Butler, not you. (But note your defensiveness, and the extremely hostile attitiude, overreaction, etc, which I have found to be typical of you). You do appear to second Butler's POV, and you have not objected to his editing, in spite of his COI, or the threat he made to Misplaced Pages. You have reverted Milo, and he added your reverts to the 3RR report I made, and wants to take the case to Arbcom. He advised me to seek more help on several policy boards. Both Milo and I gave up aditing the article today after you reverted our edits. Driving away anyone who disagrees with you and then making minor concessions after they say they are going to Arbcom does not resolve the problem, especially considering the great lengths anyone had to go to to get you to even acknowledge there was a dispute (a dispute you were already aware existed). Your reverting and owning of the article is a big problem, in my view. And since there is such an ongoing problem with EVP POV pushing at this article, according to longterm editors, it should probably go to Arbcom.-MsHyde 06:08, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

If I said you were hired by scientists to discredit Misplaced Pages articles, wouldn't you be annoyed? Don't be surprised when I take offense to your statements. I have tried to be helpful about this thing. I've tried to incorporate the suggestions of those on the talk page to appease POV concerns. None of this seems to come to your attention. I no longer care what you think of my motivations, nor do I plan on discussing yours any further. Reign in your accusations and do something productive. If you think that's arbcom, then quit threatening it and do it. I'm out of patience in this regard. Continually I have asked for your participation in discussion, for compromise and working together to settle concerns. It's gotten me nowhere. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 06:17, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

No, I would say that what you did was try to bully and personally attack me to keep me from rasing objections that had already been raised, while ScienceApologist was gone and the article had descended into a very POV state. You have been extremely hostile to me, in my view, and I think purposely so. I think you thought by being very aggressive, I would stop objecting and the article could stay POV. I am waiting for the longterm editors to get notice about Arbcom and file, also more help. From what I can see in the talk archives and the page history, this is a longterm problem. There's a huge recurring POV imbalance, aggressive EVP POV pushing, and Butler not only comes back again and again, but he says things like "I am not going to go away" and makes threats.-MsHyde 06:41, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Denial of actions is NOT an admission of guilt, Ms. Hyde. You are trying, above, to imply that because someguy took umbrage with your unfounded, and incorrect, allegations of emailing Butler, then he probably SI guilty. That sort of BS'ing doesn't work on most of the editors and admins that regularly review AN/I, and it's distinctly uncivil of you. As for Arbcom, let it go there. I'm more displeased with your hostilities than I am with any POV that SomeGuy may be pushing, because 3RR aside, he seems at least more communicative than you do about things. Doesn't make him 'right' about the topic, does make him more sympathetic regarding the reported incidents. ThuranX 06:44, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

(undent) Here is the related COI section regarding User:Tom Butler, who has been blocked for 24 hours for COI and editing violations on the EVP page, including removing all mention of his association, so that he can then edit the page. The POV level for almost all editors on this page is at a critical level. ThuranX 06:48, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Indef-block of Rumpelstiltskin223 (talk · contribs)

I had posted on ANI earlier about User:Rumpelstiltskin223 being none other than the banned User:Hkelkar. Since then Rumpel has been blocked 2 more times. Once for violation of 3RR on 2 pages, and the second time for evading the block. It was shown by checkuser that Rumpel had been using an open proxy. Also see Special:Contributions/128.83.131.122, an IP from the university from which Hkelkar has been known to edit. The edits are also to the articles frequented by him. This shows that Hkelkar has not left wikipedia and is still evading his ban. Thus, I am sure of my conclusion that Rumpel is actually Hkelkar, evading his ban using open proxies and possibly different ISPs. Their edits are too similar, and Rumpel's block-count is building up. Hence I have indefinitely blocked Rumpelstiltskin enforcing this ruling made by ArbCom regarding Hkelkar. I am also resetting the ban on Hkelkar. In all Hkelkar and his socks Subhash bose and Rumpel have been blocked close to 25 times. Hence I propose a community ban on Hkelkar and his socks. - Aksi_great (talk) 14:28, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

It might be a bit early for an indef community ban of Hkelkar, since TerryJ-Ho and BhaiSaab were also both caught sockpuppeting this week. (More precisely, it may be too early to single out Hkelkar for an indef ban.) Certainly the sock should be indef banned and all three one-year blocks should be reset. But yes, things are certainly heading in that direction for all of them. Thatcher131 15:05, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I get your point, but would like to point out that the other two were not blocked 25+ times in all which was my reason for "singling out" Hkelkar. :) - Aksi_great (talk) 15:19, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Just raising the issue. I see your point. Thatcher131 16:46, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I endorse this block. Despite some positive contributions, this user has overall become a disruptive influence on a wide array of article. If not outright sockpuppetry by Hkelkar, it is likely that Rumpel is a meatpuppet. The margin of error in the IP analysis does not worry me, as ultimately Rumpel's behavior was disruptive. Rama's arrow 15:23, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Endorse, I've suspected it was Hkelkar all along, just didn't have enough to act. Daniel.Bryant 20:43, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I too endorse, I'me at least as responsible as Daniel, cause I too was pretty sure he was Hkelkar, but was too lazy to take action.--Aldux 00:18, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Like others have said, I noticed this awhile ago as well, but it had (at that point) recently received an unlikely result in a checkuser request. Not sure how that happened... -- tariqabjotu 00:50, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Oppose - It obviously happened because they're two different people.Bakaman 04:16, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

When it comes to detecting Hkelkar's sockpuppets Bakaman's skills are always dead-on wrong, as he has been before. If he says someone isn't Hkelkar's sockpuppet, you might as well ban that person for being a sockpuppet of Hkelkar without even looking at their contribs. 72.88.157.34 04:29, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Oppose - Rumpel is an excellent user. He has made postive contributions to the project and has access to a wide library of reference material straight from the source.--D-Boy 09:51, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

• Another sock of Hkelkar, India Rising (talk · contribs), has been discovered and blocked today. This reinforces my call for banning Hkelkar indefinitely. - Aksi_great (talk) 10:09, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Proposed community ban

Per Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Reporting incident of Wikistalking above, I move a community ban on BenBurch, FAAFA, DeanHinnen or any account credibly identified as a puppet of any of them by any independent editor or admin, from creating any process intended to harrass any of the other parties, reporting supposed "violations" under the WP:KETTLE clause, creating sockpuppet investigation or checkuser requests or any other form of vexatious process with the sole exception of credible and good faith participation in dispute resolution. I further move that this be escalated to ArbCom without delay if any of the parties engages in argufying. Because, in the end, I think we have all had enough of the various parties bringing their off-Misplaced Pages fight here and trying to recruit allies to their cause. Guy (Help!) 14:59, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I'll do all of the above voluntarily. --BenBurch 17:55, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

- 201.17.115.78

I have removed the comment above left by 201.17.115.78. --Onorem 20:12, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Support however, if any of them pledge 1rr, I retract my support. Hipocrite - «Talk» 15:00, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I do so pledge --BenBurch 16:53, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

from creating any process intended to harrass any of the other parties

How do you plan to divine "intent"? Dino 15:13, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Liberally. To be safe... don't talk to 'em at all. Failing that, try being nice and working collaboratively... but in no case accuse them of doing anything improper, unkind, or with less than your total support. --CBD 15:34, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Note also per JzG above that lawyer-like arguing is not going to help you here, Dino, so it's best to not try opening that door. --Calton | Talk 15:38, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I wasn't. I asked a simple and very reasonable question which CBD has been kind enough to answer, if he may speak for JzG. And if I may be allowed to respond, these two have already been instructed by this very same administrator to leave me alone for two weeks. That was February 3. This is February 9. See how well it will work? Dino 15:55, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Uh huh. Right. --Calton | Talk 18:03, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

God yes. Tom Harrison 15:18, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Support - Enough is more than enough already. --CBD 15:34, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Support. Ral315 (talk) 15:41, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Support - I think we've all had enough. This persistent warring is wasting a lot of time and space. Moreschi

Support - though the statement currently reads as "ban them from carrying out any harrassment except dispute resolution", which made me giggle, but I know what Guy meant. Proto::► 15:44, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

As an alternate proposal, since the various editors involved aren't completely worthless, perhaps a community ban from the article in question may be a better alternative before just banishing them altogether? FAAFA approached me to help out with things, and I wisely didn't get in the middle of it, but it wasn't due to not trying. I dunno, I don't know if we necessarily lose anything with this proposal, but we stand to gain more by allowing them to be productive in other areas. --badlydrawnjeff talk 15:47, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I think you have misread the proposal. From what I can understand, the proposal isn't to banish them, but to ban them from "creating any process...faith participation in dispute resolution" - Aksi_great (talk) 15:51, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I see. I got hung up on community ban. You can just ignore me now... --badlydrawnjeff talk 16:05, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Lol, Jeff, thanks for the laugh. Actually, some of us might support a fully-fledged community ban...but that isn't what we're talking about. Cheers, Moreschi 16:12, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Yes, it seems to be more along the lines of an intervention, rather than any actual sanction, to let the parties know the community thinks they are being disruptive and acting like dicks. Thus, I fully support this "ban." JChap2007 16:09, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Support, I'm very tired of the endless back-and-forth bickering here between those users. Fram 16:01, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Support saying we wont tolerate any more end runs around dispute resolution. There is more than one article involved. I suspect this mess is headed ArbComms way, and other involved editors should probably think about facilitating progress through the dispute resolution process. My goodness, why don't we have a user conduct RFC yet? After trying an intermediate step or two, a pointer here may be a piece of evidence that other methods have failed. GRBerry 16:18, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Support current wording. The project must move forward. Directing to Dispute resolution. Navou / _{review me} 16:20, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Non-admin Support to save all the poor electrons being flung into the ether from this endless squabbling. This is basically a longer version of the simple and effective rule of "leave each other alone, for pity's sake!" (Chances of it working? Who knows. If it doesn't, the ArbCom case is going to be a three-ring circus...) Tony Fox (arf!) 16:55, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Support KillerChihuahua 17:15, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Based on the many, many previous incidents that resulted in singularly useless warnings and 24-hour blocks that were waited out, I am concerned that any action of the nature contemplated will only be ignored once again. I will be engaged in a perfectly civil discussion with some other editor, such as Calton on the Peter Roskam Talk page. BB and/or FAAFA will intervene, challenge every keystroke I make, and claim that it's all for the good of Misplaced Pages and that I'm being naughty, as is occurring right now. I will complain here and all three of us will be banned, even though I have done absolutely nothing wrong. What assurance do I have that this will not happen? Dino 16:12, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi Dino, could you advise how you think this could be resolved? If blocks and warnings don't get anywhere, and you doubt this proposal is going to solve the problem, should the next stage be ArbCom? For what's it worth, my own view is this is possibly worth a try, however I suspect the case will go to ArbCom eventually. Addhoc 16:20, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

ArbCom has crystal clear precedents on WP:STALK. I do not believe I should be forced to convince ArbCom to enforce ArbCom's precedents on WP:STALK. Arguing over content with moments of incivility is one thing and it merits warnings and 24-hour blocks. But stalking is a completely different thing and ArbCom has ruled that it merits one-year blocks and permanent bans. It is like the difference between a traffic ticket and a felony. You are not taking the difference seriously. Dino 16:49, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Ahem: Dino, you need to read the above. This comment is precisely the kind of thing we do not want and are not prepared to put up with any more. The problem is bilateral. Wikilawyering and a tone of fake reasonableness do not conceal the fact that you have brought your battle to Misplaced Pages. I am just about prepared to believe that you and Bryan are separate, but your agenda is identical and your tendency to portray your own bias as neutrality is unquestionably shared with Bryan. Start proper attempts at reaching an accommodation or leave. Guy (Help!) 16:33, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh god. I don't think this proposal is going to work. --Ideogram 16:53, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

*That is totally false - Sorry to be uncivil and all but you just accused me of a felony. Produce the police reports or retract. NONE of what you assert happened. --BenBurch 17:08, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

• Guys, what part of shut up and leave each other alone are you having trouble understanding? Guy (Help!) 17:16, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

• Sorry. I meant to until he posted that. I'll strike it out. --BenBurch 17:28, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I remember my first hour here. It was an interesting experience. The moment one administrator got the (later proven false) idea in his head that I was a sockpuppet, I was permanently blocked. The moment the same administrator got the (later proven false) idea in his head that Carolyn Doran, the Chief Operating Officer of the Wikimedia Foundation, was impersonating a WMF employee she was permanently blocked.

Period.

No discussion. No questions asked. Absolutely zero hesitation. It was as though the two of us had decided to take a little stroll on the beach in Normandy on June 6, 1944.

Here I have posted bulletproof evidence of WP:STALK after tall stacks of warnings were ignored and 24-hour blocks were waited out.

And you do nothing but claim that "the problem is bilateral." Dino 17:46, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

File:Beating 2Da 2Ddead 2Dhorse.gif

You were blocked because your editing pattern matched that of a disruptive banned user who has used many sockpuppets. CheckUser showed the same address. Not in any way controversial. You say you are Bryan's brother, well, maybe, but all you have done - and I mean all - is to pursue Bryan's grudges and sow yet more dissent. I think the community has, thus far, shown heroic patience with you. I don't see that lasting much longer. Guy (Help!) 18:00, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

"Note also per JzG above that lawyer-like arguing is not going to help you here, Dino, so it's best to not try opening that door." Like I said. --Calton | Talk 18:03, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

• I support ~ Arjun 17:53, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

• I won't vote as I am just a kibbitzer here. But it looks to this observer like Dino is 80% of the problem, and the other two just lack the self-control to avoid responding to his provocations. I think Dino should be smacked hard, and the other two hit with a rolled up newspaper until they get some sense. --66.161.232.11 18:10, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

• No. Dino just hasn't disengaged or backed down yet like the 100 or so editors before him. These is deja vu all over again. Dino is just the latest. --Tbeatty 22:14, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

• Or been banned. Maybe most members of the Free Republic site are inherently unable to edit within Misplaced Pages policy; it would not be a big surprise given its basis. Guy (Help!) 23:44, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

• I have no data on Free Republic members and WP. I do know that it appears these 3 editors are unable to edit within Misplaced Pages policy. Without commenting on their contributions, two other editors immediately come to mind though as disengaging - User:jinxmchue and User:Crockspot. They have mostly disengaged from articles frequented by these editors as have I and some other editors. There are also editors User:lawyer2b that have disengaged as well. It's tiring. --Tbeatty 00:10, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

• I'll support that - and furthermore - I support a 14, 21, or 30 day ban on all 3 of us from editing ANY political or religious article - encompassing ANY contentious article. Let's see if we're of value to the community outside of our own self-evident goals of trying to remove conservative or liberal bias and POV. (I'm hesitant to even refer to Mr. Hinnen, but must) Lets see if this concern concern is removed as an issue for Mr. Hinnen, how he, and all 3 of us react. - FAAFA 22:08, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

• Support (From Non-Admin), also, *Object to the cruelty to animals above, instead SUPPORT beating all three with the dead horse. No amount of intervention by admins, or by non-admins like myself, can do anything. I'm totally frustrated with this particular situation. Only a community ban against all three, totally prohibiting ANY political articles AT ALL, including historical topics as far back as HAMMURABI and as far forward as Asimov's Foundation and Empire series should be covered by the ban. They can edit the sciences, the arts, and popular culture. They may NOT touch the social sciences. ZERO. ThuranX 22:23, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

• I'm not an admin, but support. I also think this might benefit from arbitration, it seems to have gone too far for RfC.--Grand Slam 7 | Talk 00:29, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

• Comment Seems to me there's a related issue the committee should address about the appropriate scope of WMF employee action. I've left a statement at RFAR endorsing the proposal there. Durova 04:01, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

• Support (non-admin) Enough is enough. Kick it to ARBCOM and be done with it. - Crockspot 00:29, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Admin leaving Misplaced Pages

Is it a practice to de-sysop admin that state intentions to no longer take part in the project? User:Alkivar, after being asked about his reasons for blocking me (, and ), listed himself in Misplaced Pages:Missing Wikipedians and left a goodbye message on his talk page explaining his frustrations with the project and his intentions to leave. He also thanked those who helped him and asked all the others to f*ck themselves (this is not the first time Alkivar used this expression to address fellow wikipedians ).

Also, some days ago, when Jimbo Wales joined other editors in criticizing Alkivar for a "very bad block", he removed this (and many other) critics from his talk page calling them " worthless crap".

Is there a process for admin-status evaluation (or something like that)? Or is it just better just to wait for Alkivar to calm down (and hope the account's admins powers won't be misused in the future)?

Best regards, --Abu badali 18:10, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Wait and see. Maybe after a break he'll be fine. Maybe he'll stay away. Maybe he'll resign the sysop bit. Right now there is no problem to solve, though, that I can see. Guy (Help!) 18:12, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Special:Contributions/Zamaq is very interesting. Daniel.Bryant 20:36, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Why do I get the feeling that is an alternate account of someone more established...--Isotope23 20:39, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Well its certainly not me.  ALKIVAR™ ☢ 20:45, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I wasn't implying it was anyone in particular... and particularly I wasn't implying that it was you. I don't really know you, but you don't strike me as the sort who would sockpuppet to call himself a dick.--Isotope23 20:54, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Abu badali, your desire to protect the Wiki is admirable. I'm certain you would have done the same for any admin, even those held your favor, and that the fact you happen to have announced the wikibreak of an admin who sanctioned you is a complete coincidence. I look forward to seeing your continued contributions on the project, and again, thank you for the heads up. - CHAIRBOY (☎) 21:05, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

There's no coincidence, actually. It's no secret that I don't feel comfortable at all with users with Alkivar's temper are in the wild with Admin powers. --Abu badali 14:09, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

User:BMT Giving unwarranted vandalism notices for me trying to maintain NPOV

If there any administrators reading this, can you please do something about user BMT. I have not been vandalising the Ben Thompson page. I added a section called Legend and it is cited from reliable sources and it is relevant. But for some peculiar reason he not only removes it but gives me vandalism warnings. I am only trying to maintain a NPOV.

Well, BMT told you on that article's talk page that he couldn't find your source, and you told him to look at Lexis-Nexis. I have access to L-N through my university, so if you give me a moment I'll see if I can't find an article to verify your claim. If I can find a citation, expect your edit to be changed; it's not very encyclopedic in tone. A Train 16:35, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Not sure why this is at the top instead of bottom of the page, but anyway ... I just received a talk message asking me to help out on this because I had "been editing the article". I've never edited the article; I added the fac tag to the talk page per the WP:FAC nomination. I don't know how to help here, but it looks like both parties are deleting things from each other's talk pages, so it's hard to follow. Can someone help? Editor20 says BMT's real name is Ben Thompson, FWIW. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:39, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Moved entry to bottom of page. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:04, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

The Santa Fe New Mexican, the newspaper cited in User:TheEditor20's source, is not one of the newspapers indexed by Lexis-Nexis. A Train 16:39, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

It is! I am using the executive version. When I get home tonight I will even provide a screenshot. also, i have uploaded the article and provided a link to it on the talk page. What can I do to prove this?! I have added a screenshot (look on the talk page of the Ben Thompson article. My source is accurate, and I think anyone who fails to believe it now is deliberately trying to cause trouble. If anyone who has access to LexisNexis Executive searches for "ben thompson" and "1884" for in major stories then they will find the article. LexisNexis professional may not bring up the result. I have even provided a link to an RTF file with the information. Because you require access to look at LexisNexis material, it is not possible for me to provide for you a direct HTTP link to the source. --TheEditor20 19:07, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

If you look through MrEditor20's history he is a prolific vandal see Talk:Bethany School and perhaps talk to Raker or Chris Lester. Not to mention the attacks carried out as User:Edgovan20. yes my name is Ben Thompson, different one, of course. --BMT 16:44, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Can someone please use Lexis Nexix Executive and verfify the article I have provided from the Santa Fe New Mexican. Either than or someone find the edition of the new mexican. How can someone say my source is incorrect without even getting a copy of the Santa Fe New Mexixan July 04 1997 and finding out? This is upsurd, we are supposed to be writing an encyclopedia and yet you cant even confirm a simple source --TheEditor20 08:43, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Community noticeboard

This thing got started really quickly so I'll post here for the record: there's a new noticeboard for decisions that welcome the entire community's input, such as community bans. Nonsysops often avoid this board and WP:AN because of the boards' titles. So if an action is a community discussion, rather than mop-specific, let's relieve the load over here by posting it there. Durova 00:34, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

I can see giving it a go for awhile but it seems redundant to this page. Nice idea but I'm not sure it'll be used. --Woohookitty 09:30, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

I think it is a great idea to get those 6 page community ban discussion off this page, and into the public arena. This page is always too long, and discussions that are not just admin issues are the main reason. HighInBC 15:38, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Capella University Vandalism

The Capella University article has been the subject of ongoing vandalism by anonymous users (Capella University employees) in the past with these users resorting to name-calling and other tactics. As a result, the Capella University article had been locked. No sooner had it been unlocked, when the vandalism began again - this time by another new anonymous user (the IP traces back to Minnesota, home of Capella University). It might be best to ask for either administrative support from Misplaced Pages, or arbitration in order to prevent another heated revert war. Shac1 02:18, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

It has been reprotected by User:Arjun01. I only had a quick look, but this looks like a content dispute rather than vandalism. You say the IP is spamming/vandalising while the IP says that you are only citing negative material from an article which includes positive material and that they are trying to even up the negative/positive quotes. The IP and you, User:Shac1, need to take this to the talk page, or, as you've already been advised, try an RFC. Sarah 05:31, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your post; however, if you take a look at the edit history that I've just posted on the talk page, you'll see that the individual posting from also appears to be 68.117.38.94 (who was recently blocked from Misplaced Pages), and Pizzaman6233 (who has also received many warnings). You will also note that the charge that only I am the one reversing the vandalism is completed unfounded (again, I've cited seven others (there may be more) who have also reversed the vandalism on the talk page, ). Of course, these matters don't include the unfounded and ongoing personal attacks being made against me - some of which were recently deleted by Misplaced Pages administrators. The charges that I'm removing positive posts/edits is also not true. For example, the anonymous posted listed a series of scholarships provided by Capella University. I've also noted the phenomenal growth of the school. Finally, in regard to spamming, the anonymous user has previously posted a long list of twelve different "articles." As is noted on the talk page (under the RfC I've created), all twelve of these so-called "articles" are literally press releases by Capella University. This fact is easily verified by examining them. As the anonymous user (User:68.117.38.94, User:75.134.132.66, and User:Pizzaman6233 consistently demands it's either his way or no way, I believe it would be best for the article to remain locked. Shac1 03:11, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Personal attacks

I would like to report some personal attakcs which have been taking place on the British National Party talk page introduction section. Claims such as these i view as personal attacks by One Night In Hackney

• "the vast amount of 100% false comments you have posted"
• "to further your agenda"
• "Do you actually know what stubborn means?"
• "lies lies and propaganda"

Could someone please do something about these attacks. There are more but these are the most recent.--Lucy-marie 02:23, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

These claims come from a tendentious editor was has made a string of false statements on that talk page in bad faith, and has also had two recent warnings for personal attacks directed at me. One Night In Hackney 02:27, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

And this justifies reciprocal negative behaviour on your part, how? - WeniWidiWiki 02:54, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

It would be beneficial if you looked at the context in which those comments were made, rather than the biased presenting of them. One Night In Hackney 02:58, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

No, I'm afraid that's not the case. Politeness is expected even with those users who you think are being impolite to you. Misplaced Pages behavioral policy does not authorize you to treat another person rudely in whatever context.

Now if you think the other person has been rude to you, you must report the incident on this page, that's what you're expected to do. --Abenyosef 17:08, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Could you please provide evidence for your claims of bad faith edits and personal attacks.--Lucy-marie 13:54, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Canvassing?

Astrotrain has resumed canvassing other editors to try to stack AfD votes on articles related to the IRA. Is there an appropriate action in this case - WP:CANVAS wasn't much help. My instinct is that he should probably be strongly warned not to do it, as he and several friends are attempting to use AfD to push a particular POV (but he's the only one canvassing). Is this a warn-able or blockable offense? Looking for input. Thanks. | Mr. Darcy talk 02:56, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, WP:CANVAS classifies it as "disruptive", which would fall under the blocking policy and/or WP:DE. This issue has come up with this particular user before, has it not? —bbatsell ¿? ✍ 03:30, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

It has, but there's no solid warning on his talk page, which I think should be issued before a block. I just wanted to solicit a second opinion before doing anything, since the canvassing guideline is so weakly worded. | Mr. Darcy talk 04:17, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh yeah, definitely deserves a warning. —bbatsell ¿? ✍ 04:52, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Astrotrain is disputing the warning, and also nominated a clearly valid article (Óglaigh na hÉireann (CIRA splinter group)) related to the IRA for deletion, which I closed as a speedy keep under that guideline's second criterion for disruptive nominations. I've also issued a final warning that he needs to stop trying to use the AfD process to push his anti-IRA POV, and should be working on these articles if he feels that they are not neutral. If he abuses the process again, I'll block. I'm posting this here just for review and/or feedback if any other admins would like to have a look. Thanks. | Mr. Darcy talk 17:14, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

I have been keeping half an eye on this, and your actions seem correct. HighInBC 17:16, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

That is unacceptable and a complete abuse of admin powers- I contatced various people about several AFDs (none of which I had started) to increase the level of debate. I also contatced the main contributors to the debates from both sides. This is allowed per the guidlines on WP:CANVAS.

As for the article, Óglaigh na hÉireann (CIRA splinter group), this is clearly non notable (only claim to fame is an unsourced post office hold up). Your decision to speedy keep is again against the guidlines, and your claim that I am being disruptive is uncalled for. I am sure many other people would agree to delete this article, but now we will never know unless someone else calls for it to be deleted. Astrotrain 17:28, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Per WP:CANVAS, ‘If what is happening is getting everyone upset then it is a problem.’ You have a history of disputed activity under the guideline; would you consider foregoing unnecessary AFD notifications for a while, just to avoid this? After all, anybody editing or watching the article will surely notice the AFD tag. —xyzzy_n 17:40, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

I didn't make the AFD nomination- Darcy should stop making silly threats here- if people want to keep an article they will vote as such. We don't need heavy handed tactics or bullying. Astrotrain 17:50, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes, you most definitely did make the AfD nomination: history of the nomination shows you as the first editor. | Mr. Darcy talk 06:11, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Did you read the references on that article? The post office robbery is sourced. HighInBC 17:44, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

This has happened for far too long now. WP:CANVAS has to be enforced and user's can not be allowed to get away with wikilawyering or claims of being "harassed" by administrators to justify breaking policy. The next time I see this done I will block the user myself, you have already been adequately warned.--Jersey Devil 17:52, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

You obviously have not even looked to see what I posted and to whom- all postings met the guidlines in WP:CANVAS (limited, neutral and bipartisan). The only warning given was by a user who wished to vote keep on these articles- so hardly acting in a neutral manner. Astrotrain 18:00, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

This, of course, is a flat-out untruth. In this edit, you wrote: another non notable IRA member up for deletion - hardly "neutral" - but only did so on pages of users with whom you've been block-voting for the last two weeks. That's pretty clear evidence that you were canvassing. And it's time for you to stop - preferably of your own volition. | Mr. Darcy talk 06:11, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

CANVAS? Shouldn't it be CANVASS? Corvus cornix 03:50, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

WP:CANVASS also redirects to Misplaced Pages:Canvassing. | Mr. Darcy talk 06:11, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Possible vandalism, need assistance or block

71.202.167.86 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) has been making subtle changes to the population count in various city pages. See the edit history. Edits are unsourced or in some cases contradict existing citations. Other edits are even messing up existing reference names thinking the name of the reference is a date. I have left two warnings on the IPs talk page. I'm not sure how to proceed. --Mperry 06:37, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

There's templates for that: {{uw-unsourced1}}, {{uw-unsourced2}}, {{uw-unsourced3}}, and {{uw-vandalism4}}. After the fourth, a simple vandal report is in order. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 06:43, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

E. Brown and fair use images on user page

E. Brown (talk · contribs) seems to be having problems with Misplaced Pages not being a soapbox in terms of fair use images. He has several self-created userboxes (these userboxes are not templates or transcluded on user pages) that contain fair use images. Chacor removed them as a violation of WP:FUC #9 and left a warning, and E. Brown promptly reverted them. This happened once more, with Chacor and I leaving warnings. He responded with a short tirade on Chacor's user talk page, asserting that he "isn't breaking the law" and stating that he can't stand fair use (which is what a short blurb at the bottom of his column of userboxes states). I responded by protecting the user's user page for one week. Is there anything else that should be done for now? --Coredesat 06:57, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Just went off on my user page. --Coredesat 07:30, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Just a note, his userpage is protected, so I cant remove it, but the one tree hill userbox has a fairuse pic in it as well. -M 09:13, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Must've missed that one when taking them out. Can an admin please do so? Side note, Guy has told E. Brown flatly why he's violating FU, so let's hope it works. – Chacor 09:37, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Removed. Daniel.Bryant 09:52, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

GrahameKing, again (previous incidents attended by Proto)

FIRST:

GrahameKing deleted blocks of text from the talk page .

The larger block of text was reintroduced by Proto after an older previous mass-deletion by GrahameKing .

GrahameKing suggested to leave the deleted paragraphs out of the talk page during the RfC about this issue, due to his concern about such "defamatoy" (his opinion, not mine) stuff listed at Google.

• I am wondering if that´s (GrahameKing´s "truce") the correct thing to do (if no Wikipolicies barring this option), just to avoid a nasty escalation of deletions and reversals. If my source is pronounced as valid, the paragraph then will be in the main article. If it is not, the text will be deleted and that´s it. I have no hurry.

• I think that GrahameKing is a good user, but, -just my opinion- maybe a bit too emotional and too devoted to PrimalTherapy. Not offence intended.

SECOND:

OTOH, GrahameKing presented no alegations for the RfC, and I asked him thrice to do so . I am wondering if I am in front of a stonewaller. I must confess that my reserves of good faith about this issue are running low.

THIRD:

GrahameKing also deleted another section of sourced content (introduced by me in...October ) from the article , never touched before by GrahameKing´s multiple deletions. This time I reverted the deletion , because the deleted stuff is totally noncontroversial.

I think that this deletion of a section after four months it´s just a diversionary tactic. As I said, my good faith about this issue is running low.

FOURTH

Incorrect tagging at my User:Page

This is a complex issue. Proto attended the issue previously, but any input is welcome Randroide 09:15, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

User:Booze broads and bullets persistent copyright offender

I would just like to bring to attnetion User:Booze broads and bullets. The user has been uploading copyrighted images (and in some cases, text) since July 2006, has been repeatedly warned on his talk page User_talk:Booze_broads_and_bullets but has been unresponsive. Just recently again (February 10), he has uploaded a new slew of copyrighted images, using the magazine cover fair use tag which does not apply to the images as they are web sourced from the parent website. He has been warned before and seems unresponsive and doesn't seem like he's changing his ways anytime soon. I'll just leave the resolution to you guys. Thanks. Shrumster 11:53, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

I have indefinitely blocked this user and left a message here saying that they can be unblocked after their discussion about the image uploading problem. This is not supposed to be a permenant block but an attention getter. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 13:58, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

As it is not just text (and not simply naive, as he has been told to stop), I think we have an instance of an increasingly common problem: Copyright-infringing users who create numerous articles. We cannot verify all of them as copyright infringements, and it is a tremendous waste of time for someone to go through verifying them anyway, yet most of them are and if any copyright holder were to find one of the copied articles it would be an odd and unaccepted response that we knew about the user's copyright infringement but did not remove his additions to Misplaced Pages. —Centrx→talk • 15:31, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Sigh. He just blanked his talk page. I fear he'll come back with a different user name and just proceed with what he used to do. I'll stay vigilant on this. Shrumster 17:12, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

This user will not be hard to recognize if he/she comes back with a new name. HighInBC 17:14, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

User:GopherQ

I don't know what to make of the contributions of GopherQ (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log). In some edits this user comes across as well meaning, in others as a confused newbie, and in some edits as someone with a strange sense of humour bored senseless. A few examples:

• Adding a link to Aviation accidents and incidents to the See also section of Islam
• Adding Category:Aviation accidents and incidents to Islam
• Replacing Uzbekistan with "BOOBIES BOOBIES BOOBIES BOBBIES!"
• Adding a sentence about Lisa Nowak to Anna Nicole Smith: "NASA is said to be reviewing its employee screening process after the incident."

This might make the user's edits seem as trolling or minor vandalism. But the user has also reverted pov edits and vandalism. The user talk page suggests some editing issues, in particular the {{blatantvandal}} warning left by User:Ohnoitsjamie on September 23. Aecis 12:39, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

• • I've checked every edit by this user. Yes, a couple of helpful ones, but also one piece of egregious vandalism and a lot of mildly humorous trollery. We really need to be tougher on this one - the talk page shows us still handling him with kid gloves. Metamagician3000 12:51, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Dannielynn Hope Marshall Stern

I've just protected Dannielynn Hope Marshall Stern as a redirect to her parent Anna Nicole Smith since if all that's noteworthy about her is that her dad's identity is in some sort of dispute then there's really not much to write about her specifically, and nothing that couldn't be mentioned in her mum's article.

However, I reverted the page to a redirect twice and so I might not be a neutral party to have protected the redirect. Anyone else is free to unprotect if they feel this is unjustified. Kimchi.sg 14:59, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

For those who don't want to get stuck inside the secure.wikipeda the links are here and here. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 15:12, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Persianate society

Could other admins advise me? I've been doing some tidying at Persianate society, including copy-editing, wikifying, bringing it into line withj the MoS, etc. the whole article is in pretty bad shape. One editor – Surena (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – persisted in reverting my edits wholesale. He or she has stopped, but suddenly people hitherto uninvolved have popped up to do the same (see this diff for the latest). I've tried explaining at the articles's Talk page what the issues are (they have nothing to do with citations, except for one which, when followed up, proved to support nothing in the article, so I removed it), but these people are clearly reverting without looking, as they've been asked to by a friend.

My question is this: these reverts seem to me to be disruptive at best (they're clearly organised by Surena by e-mail), but are they sufficiently vandalistic to mean that reverting them is 3RR-protected? If it isn't, and I have to leave it, I'm inclined to let the thing go altogether and let it stay in the hopeless mess that it is now. The only admin intervention was from (totally disinterested, of course, and unaffected by previous disagreements with me) User:Sir Nicholas de Mimsy-Porpington, who wagged his finger at me for using rollback on one of these (at least near-) vandals. Something more constructive would be appreciated. --Mel Etitis (Talk) 15:25, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

OK, perhaps I was wrong in part; the latest editor to revert me has now, after my explanation to him, reverted his revert. I'd still like comments on the principle, though. --Mel Etitis (Talk) 15:27, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

No, it's now even worse. --Mel Etitis (Talk) 16:27, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Questionable Behavior/Edit Issue

An Administrator needs to look into this, please. Recently, I started fixing up the article Royal Descent. However, over the last few days, another editor User:Michaelsanders has taken it upon themselves to take over the article. Everytime something new is added the editor deletes it. I have tried to discuss the issue on the talk page with them, but they delete my edits, revert to theirs and then argue about it to the point it just had gotten silly. This user has already been blocked twice for breaking the 3RR rule and has been in trouble for their behavior in the past. I am not sure if this user has broken the 3RR rule again by re-editing the article several times already or if they violated any other policies on this site. But given their behavior the last few days there is definitly an issue that needs attention as no one may be able to edit the article. RosePlantagenet 17:07, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

It should also be noted they have done this at the Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows article as well. RosePlantagenet 19:32, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

The editor making the complaint persists in her own opinion, and continually reverts (possibly breaking 3RR rules). I have tried to discuss the issue with her; she simply talks down to me because I am 'a young editor', and considerably worsened the issue by taking a condescending attitude, before eventually saying she was no longer going to discuss because of my age. She appears to regard the article as her own (having taken particular offence today when I stripped the article of OR etc, and reverting). And finally, as a coup de grace, she did not even bother to inform me of this complaint. Michaelsanders 19:49, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Looking at a simple comparison of the two editors' versions, two things are quickly obvious. One, RosePlantagenet has engaged in a ridiculous quantity of OR (Although it's reasoned out fairly well, it cannot be a part of Misplaced Pages).However, Other sections of Rose's edits are sourced, and MichaelSanders removes them as rapidly as he removes the OR. Neither editor is working for the betterment of the project at this point, instead each is now defending their own page.

As for MichaelSanders efforts on Harry Potter, his edits are fully sourced, relevant, and generally add to the topic and content, and should be restored.ThuranX 20:06, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Michaelsanders's recent edits on Harry Potter are totally unsubstanciated and irrelevant: they are basically original research about a word that the author herself has refused to explain. What Michaelsanders proposed in the article was no less than a full interpretation on the meaning that the word will have in the next HP book, and his sources are no less than fansites. Also, he doesn't seem to be disturbed by the use of Synthesis of published material serving to advance a position.

While, to be honest, he didn't technically write these edits, he has vehemently tried to prevent anyone from removing all this OR, facing the risk of wiolating the 3RR rule without caring much about it. Of course, he has never been able to justify his reverts in the talk page, not once. Folken de Fanel 22:46, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

I would answer this, but it's inappropriate for this page (Folkendefanel seems to have no objections to violating 3RR and provoking long arguments, but I feel such is not suitable here). Anyone who wants to find out about this issue can see the relevant discussion page. Michaelsanders 23:46, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

You have started an edit war, you do not seem to have any objections to revert without debating it first, and you are ready to break the 3RR rule.

Arguments are the base of Misplaced Pages. I know you want to impose your opinions and your edits without further discussion, bu as long as Misplaced Pages remains as it is, you won't be able do do just everything you want. You'face opposition from other editors, even if you don't like it.Folken de Fanel 00:06, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Actually, MichaelSanders' edits seem thoroughly substantiated by the links, and present the nature of the word Hallows. he cites OTHERS who construct the Arthurian parallels, Cites the Arthurian hallows, and so on. Perhaps the only place where he flirts with OR is in the parallels of House Symbols and which element each represents. However, The vast majority is well cited, and germane to the topics. I support it's inclusion. Finally, Consensus and Citation are the bases of Misplaced Pages, NOT argument and conflict You're becoming combative, FdF. Wait or more comment from outside editors and admins.ThuranX 00:28, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

According to wikipedian rules, self-published theories and personal websites are not to be taken as reliable sources, so his edits are not well cited. That other fans write theories on the web doesn't make them reliable.

I'm not becoming combative. Folken de Fanel 00:34, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Yeah,. you are. Youe' trying wikilawyering, a tactic many here find distasteful.

Is this an open invitation to violate WP rules, ThuranX ?

You do not need to make false accusations of wikilawyering. If you're sure you're right and I'm wrong, then it'll be easy to prove, instead of resorting to mere negative accusations.

Wikilawyering is too-easy an excuse. Any one can accuse any administrator, or any editor removing vandalism/OR of wikilawyering, in that case. With that, I can publish any theory I want, nobody would be able to contradict me...Folken de Fanel 01:41, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

You and MichaelSanders are both showsing a total inability to be civil in any form, to anyone. I'm done trying to assist. I suggest you both go elsewhere for the night. Cool Off. Stop poking the Fate Bear. ThuranX 01:48, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

To quote the admin below - "please avoid directly engaging the other editor in combative fashion here on an AN/I about your conflicts with her. That looks bad to anyone seeking to help resolve the situation." Also, please refrain from frankly bizarre claims that I "want to impose opinions and edits without further discussion." And please, please, Stop lying. You began the edit war, you broke the 3RR rule. Now stop writing here, discuss the issue on my talk page, or on the article page. Michaelsanders 00:22, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

See below. (edit conflict while you wrote this, i'm not covering it twice.)ThuranX 00:28, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Michaelsanders, stop making accusations about me and stop giving order to me. I'm not "lying", you began the edit war, you broke the OR rule. Folken de Fanel 00:34, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Do you need a separate engraved invitation? ok: Folken de Fanel, please avoid directly engaging the other editor in combative fashion here on an AN/I about your conflicts with him. That looks bad to anyone seeking to help resolve the situation.ThuranX 01:09, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

As regards the information removal, I removed the cited information principally because, with the OR etc removal, the cited information became irrelevant (e.g. "Since, illegitimate children could not marry into other royal families because being bastards left them undesirable matches, these children had to marry upper class or middle class families from their own country." - becomes pointless, since it was referencing an uncited claim that some Europeans are descended from royalty. Michaelsanders 20:14, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

No, you simply need to find a NEW source for that fact, which, if true, should be easily done. ThuranX 20:36, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

I simply want this editor to leave me alone and perhaps discuss the edits before deleting them. However, if we are both wrong then I will not edit the article further and let someone better take over. RosePlantagenet 20:10, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

As regards her persecution complex, you may see her talk page - where I asked her not to restore unsourced information to the article, and where I told her not to remove the comment. Michaelsanders 20:14, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

From what I can see, you both are engaging in a significant amount of interpretation and incivility. You both seem to know a lot about the subject, and I would think working together on it would be far better then competing for one particular viewpoint or the other. Seraphimblade 20:34, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

MichaelSanders, please avoid directly engaging the other editor in combative fashion here on an AN/I about your conflicts with her. That looks bad to anyone seeking to help resolve the situation. ThuranX20:36, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I was simply referring to her desire that I 'leave her alone' - if followed, I don't see how either the OR issue or the (now defunct) inbreeding issue can be addressed. Also, could you please explain "No, you simply need to find a NEW source for that fact, which, if true, should be easily done." ? Michaelsanders 21:03, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Let me rephrase what you just said. Sorry, I was just poking her one more time to see if I could get away with it, and by the way, here's me pointing her bad thing she did out once more. It's childish to the Nth degree. Finally, I meant exactly what I said. If illegitimate children of royalty couldn't engage in inter-monarchial married, and had to settle for marrying upper-class fellow nationals, that should be easily sourced, so source it. The inclusion of the fact does explain why some 'commoners' had royal ancestors. From there, you've got a sourced basis to establish spread of royal lineage through generations, if you can source it. But that is exactly the statement explaining the 'seeding' of the commoners, pardon the pun. ThuranX 00:28, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

ADMIN - Please note: After being told to cool off here repeatedly, the editors have taken it to each other's talk pages: for example. Probably time for Admin interventions? ThuranX 06:51, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Questionable behavior by an admin

An admin has made the following personal attack on me at the Talk:Anti-Zionism page:

Actually, WP:NOR applies quite explicitly to the way sources are chosen and used. It baffles me that you would imagine you understand Misplaced Pages's content policies better than I do. You've been editing Misplaced Pages for 2 weeks, almost all of it to this article and Talk: page; the hubris in imagining you have the content policies down pat is astonishing. (...) Jayjg 22:14, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Not only is this impolite, it's also worrying since an admin is claiming that WP:NOR applies to the way sources are chosen, which is not true. This was done in the context of a discussion about source reliability after I presented evidence in favor of one source.

Along the same line, the same admin had previously claimed: "Please stop filling the page with repetitive and irrelevant original research, let's stick to policy," suggesting, again incorrectly, that policy forbids original research from the Talk pages.

My complaint is, then, that:

a) An admin has behaved improperly, making rude comments on another user. b) An admin appears not to understand the WP:NOR policy. --Abenyosef 17:38, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Actually WP:NOR echoes WP:RS very clearly in requiring reliable, verifiable sources, which absolutely does speak to the way sources are chosen and used. I don't really see any problem with his comments, either, but I tend to have a thicker skin for that than others, so some might disagree. —bbatsell ¿? ✍ 17:42, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Regardless of the validity of the point about WP:OR, "It baffles me that you would imagine you understand Misplaced Pages's content policies better than I do" does sound rather condescending, even if true. HighInBC 17:47, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

If I had seen just that comment out of context, I would agree, but looking over the talk page shows the reasons for such wording. I personally wouldn't have said it (at least I hope I wouldn't have), but I think, in context, it's mild incivility at best. —bbatsell ¿? ✍ 17:54, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh yes, amongst mildest incivility I have been able to detect. HighInBC 18:18, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

It appears that Abenyosef has been engaging in original research on the Anti-Zionism talk page to try and dismiss the claims from reliable sources, which WP:V prohibits ("verifiability, not truth"). Several editors have tried to point this out to him with little effect, and taking into account the length of the discussion and the fact that Abenyosef still doesn't get it, Jayjg was entirely justified in making the comments he did. -- Steel 18:00, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Abenyosef was trying to go against consensus to push an unreliable sourced statement in the article. I can understand how it is frustrating to have to deal with this kind of stuff, when people refuse to accept consensus but Jayjg should have been more careful in his wording. Either way, I don't think one mildly uncivil statement made out of frustration should qualify as a true violation of WP:NPA.--Jersey Devil 18:06, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

This is probably a slight violation of WP:BITE, but looks like an act of frustration more than anything else. Nothing to be concerned about. Definitely not a violation of WP:NPA. --Tango 18:08, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

No incivility, no personal attack, not even WP:BITE; just being firm and straightforward toward someone who has refused to take a hint. Raymond Arritt 18:16, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Thank you all for your advice. However, I still don't get it straight why O.R. is forbidden when arguing for or against the reliability of a source. Where's this written? --Abenyosef 18:42, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

A better way to establish the reliability of a source is to open a request for comment. And by the way, I agree with Raymond Arritt about the original quote at this thread. Durova 19:44, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Thank you, again, Arritt, Durova, et al -- but here's Misplaced Pages behavior policy in a nutshell: even idiots deserve politeness. Misplaced Pages policy does not allow you not to be nice with a guy just because he's a jerk. Making use of such policy, I'll be nice enough to tell you that you're fundamentally wrong with regard to NOR. It does not apply to the way sources are chosen, and no one in a talk page can stop an editor from arguing for (or against) a source on the grounds that he's using OR to check that source. The only place where OR is forbidden is in the Misplaced Pages articles -- period. You can't write your own research into the article: that's the one and only limitation. Outside of the words written into the article, you're allowed to use OR for whatever purpose, including source choice.

Your failure to understand that elementary issue shows that the Misplaced Pages Policy pages are a large amount of beautiful words that are not actually grasped by the users, who wield NOR as a kill-it-all weapon they take pleasure in using against others, trigger-happy fashion, instead of using it with judgment. But then, if admins do not understand the rules, what can one expect from rank-and-file users.

One final word for Bbatsell. Your claim that "If I had seen just that comment out of context, I would agree, but looking over the talk page shows the reasons for such wording" is most telling. All my comments in that page are well-reasoned and polite. What you don't like is what you think are my ideas. The various ad-hominems I've gotten in this page also go in the same direction.

Misplaced Pages is young. Hopefully, in the future a way will be found to deal with these distortions. --Abenyosef 20:42, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages's editors including Jay have shown you a high degree of tolerance, in the face of you insisting stridently on some stuff which is against WP policy. You have no reason to expect for everyone to remain polite to you indefinitely with you provoking them. The responses have been very mild. Please stop the provocations. Georgewilliamherbert 22:51, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

What can I do about continuous soapboxing?

Is there anything that either I or an admin can do about continuous soapboxing? I and another editor have repetitively pointed out that WP is not a soapbox in this one particular Talk page, but it continues. The latest rant appears to be some lengthy diatribe about Jewish people. How can we get these soapboxers to stop? Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 18:48, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Also, it should be noted that one of the soapboxers, User:Mr Phil, has recently been warned by an admin about making personal attacks. His account on German Misplaced Pages was banned because of his behaviour. And he has indicated on his Talk page that he will only edit in English Misplaced Pages because of this:

• Ich werde mich von jetzt an nur noch in der englischen Misplaced Pages äußern, die deutsche Misplaced Pages ist nur für Zensur gut.
• Translation by Dictionary.com Translator: I will express myself from now to only in the English Misplaced Pages, the German Misplaced Pages am good only for censorship.

Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 19:23, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Second request for intervention regarding Tom Butler

This report was made above, but nothing was done: Butler has just made four edits to the article.-MsHyde 19:34, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

And he is actively continuing to disrupt past those 4 edits. He has been repeatedly warned: MsHyde 20:35, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

His only edits to Misplaced Pages are to this article: MsHyde 20:40, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

And there is a complaint at Conflicts of Interest noticeboard:-MsHyde 20:43, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

(NOt an Admin) Left him a note about it, doubt it'll help, but since I'm not involved in EVP, maybe it will. ThuranX 20:57, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

He's already had dozens of warnings, and has been doing this for months.-MsHyde 21:00, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

batik page

The page explaining batik fabric colorization has text innappropriate to the page under the second paragraph and in the "See Also" at the bottom. I tried to edit it, but the text doesn't show up there. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cynjaden (talk * contribs) 19:53, 10 February 2007 (UTC).

The text has gone now. Someone has reverted the vandalism. Please feel free to do the same! Cheers! Yuser31415 (Editor review two!) 20:46, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

SI IEC Edit War

Is using WP:AES to aide in a prolific edit war over megabyte prefixes--162.84.217.206 22:06, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

User has single handedly decided to change every single instance of MB and KB to MiB and KiB--162.84.217.206 22:19, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

This is probably a bad faith report by someone who has likely been involved in a recent string of anonymous IP reversions of articles to non-IEC binary prefixes (usage of the IEC binary prefixes is currently blessed by a policy that has withstood many debates and challenges). The anonymous user is obviously aware of Misplaced Pages policies, has been informed of the current standing of WP:MOSNUM on this issue, and probably is already aware of the recent controversy over this. Sarenne has already been the subject of some near harassment at the hands of a few editors on a mission who labeled a content dispute as vandalism and warned him/her thusly. From the three discussions I linked, you can clearly see that it is the decision of a strong consensus to use IEC binary prefixes on Misplaced Pages, not the rogue actions of Sarenne. Please ignore this report. -- mattb @ 2007-02-10T22:21Z

My mistake, I must have missread the section that says "Do not change all SI prefixes to IEC prefixes in computing contexts, only those that are actually being used in a binary sense"--162.84.217.206 22:30, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

My mistake as well. I confused you somewhat with another anonymous user, 63.215.27.53 (talk · contribs), who is currently aggressively reverting several articles. -- mattb @ 2007-02-10T22:36Z

My only concern was that there were two parties aggressively edit warring, both with the help of WP:AES, which made it impossible to tell what was actually going on without quite a bit of research on my part since no one was using edit summaries--162.84.217.206 22:41, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

It was not aggressive :) I used edit summaries when I made the first change so it is easy to see what is going on by looking at the history Sarenne 23:08, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Copyvio that's not a copyvio?

Hi - I originally tagged http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Thomas_P._Meek&oldid=107175770 as it's a straight lift from the reference, however reading the disclaimer at the bottom, US Govt text is in the public domain? Does that mean that a straight lift is ok? The same editor has created multiple articles on that basis so I thought I should check. --Fredrick day 22:40, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Material created by an employee of the US government, including the US armed forces, in the course of his or her duties in the context of that employment, is in the public domain. Since the text is from the US Navy’s website and no notice of authorship is present that would suggest otherwise, we should assume it is not a copyright infringement. However, be sure to check for NPOV and verifiability, which may be not satisfied in a direct copy. See WP:MCQ for future questions about copyright. —xyzzy_n 23:50, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

User:Samuel Erau

I'd like people to take a look at User talk:Samuel Erau, please. This user called me "trailer trash" and somehow insists it's not a personal attack. Frankly I was tempted to just block him but I didn't want to do that. What is everyone else's opinion? --Deskana (request backup) 22:42, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

I have blocked for a short period and left a note on their page. Thanks/wangi 22:51, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

AfD sockpuppetry

CheckUser confirms that Ccfr88 (talk · contribs), Wizardbrad (talk · contribs), CSMASTER84 (talk · contribs), FGreen1989 (talk · contribs), and BlackMateria (talk · contribs) are all the same person. I've blocked the IP, but could an administrator take a look at the situation, and especially Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/The noob (Second nomination)? Thanks. Dmcdevit·t 23:37, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

*shakes head in disgust*. Good luck with the SPAs ;). Yuser31415 (Editor review two!) 23:41, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

See Misplaced Pages:Suspected sock puppets/Wizardbrad for what I've done. If someone wants to go through and label the AfD !votes with a message pointing to that, feel free. Daniel.Bryant 23:54, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Folken de Fanel

This user initiated an edit war on Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, broke the 3RR rule, and has made personal insults towards other editors on the article discussion page. What is worse, he accuses others around him of breaking WP:RS, WP:OR, and WP:3RR, and of making personal attacks - the first two are open to his question, but largely a matter of opinion, the final is definitively not true - and refuses to acknowledge his own clear violation of 3RR and Personal Attacks - consider . I would like an admin to warn him. Michaelsanders 00:36, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

I have not started an edit war on Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, Michaelsanders has started it by blindly reverting edits without justification, to the risk of committing a 3RR violation.

I have never made any personal insults towards other editors, Michaelsanders is actually making false claims and spreading lies about me. However, I was the one personally insulted by Michaelsanders.

That Michaelsanders has broken WP:RS and WP:OR is not a question of opinion, it has been thoroughly established and undisputably proven using quotes from the official rules of Misplaced Pages.

That Michaelsanders intended to break WP:3RR is obvious, as he was already reverting without any justification.

I have absolutely never attacked anyone personally, and I have no intention to acknowledge this just because Michaelsanders forces me to say so. I was the only one who was attacked personally, and Michaelsanders conviniently "forgets" to mention it.

Michaelsanders is actually harassing me, pursuing me and spreading lies about me in every page on which he has the occasion to do so.

This user has something personal against me, however he refuses to settle it through private channels and is beginning to harass me all over Misplaced Pages.

As I don't really care about him, as I'm not as vindictive as he is, I don't ask him to be warned, I only ask him to stop harassing me, and stop talking to me (since he's not able to talk to me without accusing me of being pure evil).

Michaelsanders has already been accused of harassment on another user, User:RosePlantagenet, and has already been warned "not to directly engage the other editor in combative fashion". Folken de Fanel 01:30, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

• ADMINS: Please see here for the other half of this AN/I. MichaelSanders has been warned by myself and others before about combativeness on AN/I, and probably has met the requirements for a bad faith/incivility block. The other editors aren't saints.ThuranX 01:36, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Problems with user Sarvagnya

Hi, I am here to report Sarvagnya's numerous deletions of items on the Dravidian topics template here. I was fortunate enough to have an administor put a temporary block on there for 5 days here and to resolve the issue with this user, which I have attempted. I have been asked by Sarvagnya to show reference sources to back my claims, and I have here, here, here, and here, and here. So far, Sarvagnya has not shown a single referenced source to back his claims. He even refuses to do so and continues to ask me to show more referenced sources. Furthermore, he tells me to show him referenced sources and if I do not, he will continue to remove items from the Dravidian topics template here I have shown him books along with the page numbers where I found the info to back my claims, and he is still hell bent on removing items from the template. This user also shows a great intollerance of other people's ethnicities and nationalities, also generalizing certain ethnic groups here, here, andhere.

After the five days were up and nothing resolved, an administrator put a disabled tag on the page to protect it from further deletions here I have reported this user before and when Sarvagnya found out that I reported him, he sent me a threatening message on my talk page here to get me blocked. Lastly, Sarvagnya has managed to find a way around the protection plate and has has began removing items off the template again here, here, and here. Just now, he has just posted a demeaning message on my talk page here. I am beginning to get the impression that this user is messing with me and is trying his level best to get his POV across using wikipedia as some sort of a propganda machine. It would be most appreciated if someone could help with this situation here. Regards. Wiki Raja 00:47, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Sneaky vandalism, request for removal of tags

The editors of the main Interlingua have had to contend with sneaky vandalism for a very long time. Most often, this takes the form of plausible misinformation or deletions, but there is a lot of variation. One vandal even replaced an external link with one that read "demon" and apparently contained a virus. I had to replace my hard drive after I clicked on the link.

The last bout of sneaky vandalism has culminated in a spate of tags and signs left by someone who was frustrated that his misinformation had been reverted. Could I get someone to remove the tags and signs? I'm afraid that, if I do it, the result will be an edit war or retaliation. Since he's an administrator, I could also be blocked.

This person, User:Dissident, describes himself as a bureaucrat on the Interlingua Misplaced Pages. This claim has turned out to be true; there is evidence that he uses the status as a cover. Another person left a sign on top of the article to amplify the ones that were already there. He professes an interest in Interlingua, again, probably as a cover since his behavior suggests opposition.

At this point, most of the constructive editors have given up and stopped contributing. Only the vandals are left, and they are continuing to vandalize the article. I am very open to suggestions on how to respond to this sneaky vandalism, or help with reverting it when it occurs.

Thanks very much for your help! Cal 01:51, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Looking at Talk:Interlingua#Rant_about_POV, it doesn't look like anyone is disagreeing. In fact, there's some agreement. Have you tried discussing this, or otherwise following WP:DR? And, you had to... replace... your hard drive? -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 01:56, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm also not sure that it's appropriate for you to be throwing accusations of vandalism around like this (WP:AGF). Dissident's edits don't appear to be vandalism. Calling this a vandalism revert probably isn't right either; it looks like the edit may have just been a good-faith WP:NPOV edit. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 02:01, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

My sense that it is sneaky vandalism is based on this page, which includes plausible misinformation as an example of this type of vandalism. Please note that I'm not insulting the person but calling the behavior sneaky vandalism. If I've misunderstood this term, please feel free to correct me, but it seems fairly straightforward. If you would like me to explain why the information is incorrect, I would be glad to do that. I wouldn't even have mentioned the person, but I felt some discussion of his status could be relevant.

Please consider that this is a complex situation in which it has been difficult to edit the article for a long time. There is a lot of interference and there was recently a concealed deletion of a link within the article. These also seem to be examples of sneaky vandalism according to the same page. I'm sorry if I used the wrong language, but I'm describing or trying to describe a real, long-term problem and genuinely seeking solutions.

The person who agrees supports a different auxiliary language, Ido, and authored the article on it, so it's understandable that he agrees. Unfortunately, there tends to be competition among the three most successful auxiliary languages, although this seems contrary to the goals of those languages. It is true that the third person, who agrees in part, is not associated with another language, but notice that he begins by agreeing and then refocuses the discussion on the criticisms section of the article.

On discussing the matter, it takes a special skill to reach agreement across auxiliary languages, and I'm not all that good at it. The talk page has been sort of off-limits except to supporters of other languages. Interlingua supporters have been commenting mostly in the edit summaries, if they haven't stopped editing entirely. I feel like stopping too, but if the article is left alone, it can degenerate pretty quickly.

I'm sorry if I've described the problem insensitively, but I'm very frustrated and at a loss for what to do. Cal 03:41, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Sneaky vandalism is tough, especially on a specialized topic. The challenge is to document it and cite it and explain it for the rest of us. See my investigation at User:Durova/Complex vandalism at Joan of Arc. Maybe that will set you on a path where you can spell this out for nonspecialists. The burden's on you to substantiate the accusation. Durova 04:19, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm glad to hear from someone who has experience with this issue. Sneaky vandalism is especially difficult for Interlingua because its underlying theory and development procedures are complex. I'll read and digest your investigation before going farther. Thanks very much! Cal 04:56, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

The infobox...disrupter

Not sure if this has been posted before, but there is a persistant editor who has been making questionable edits to infoboxes under various IP addresses:

• 74.12.155.186 (talk · contribs)
• 70.53.94.247 (talk · contribs)
• 70.53.94.131 (talk · contribs)
• 70.53.95.145 (talk · contribs)

There might be more out there, but these are the one's I have encountered through Peter Jennings. It's definitely disruptive (although there are good contributions here and there), and the editor has certainly been warned before on his older IP addresses, but has shown no sign of heeding the advice of others. Is there anything that can be done about this? Gzkn 02:32, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Was I right in making this edit?

I think I was right to remove what appears to be trolling, but I decided I should ask here since it may explode into a larger conflagration: --NE2 03:25, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes, because WP:AFD discussions are not to be edited after they are closed. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 03:27, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

I moved it to the talk page to avoid problems. (But in reality, that talk page will fade into oblivion.) --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 03:35, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Your edit summary leaves something to be desired. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 04:02, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

You did the right thing. Try to avoid such edit summaries, though. Calling someone's comment "useless" can often inflammate a situation. Just a friendly pointer, Yuser31415 04:28, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

User:Donteatyellowsnow

Donteatyellowsnow (talk · contribs) has been trolling various articles about film, especially film in Canada topics, and adding false facts and changing the articles POV greatly. Notably seen in the articles Hollywood North and Runaway production. He has been banned for WP:3RR on Feb 7 Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/3RR. On Feb 9 he vandalised my user page, and was reverted by User:HighInBC. Donteatyellowsnow continously clears his User talk:Donteatyellowsnow and a full archive of all warnings he has been given has been recorded. On it he has received warnings for vandalism, WP:3RR, removing templates from articles, POV issues, and WP:CIVIL warnings. He continously disagrees with the working consensus of the other editors as seen on Talk:Hollywood North and Talk:Hollywood_North/Archive_2. Others on the AfD board described his nomination as 'bad faith'. See Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/Hollywood_North.

Ther are many other times where he has been uncivil to other edits. A recent quote:

• "It's too funny. If you don't like U.S. entertainment, then create your own! Don't call it "Hollywood North" unless you are willing to debate the theft. It's not America's fault that Canadians (and the whole world) loves our entertainment or that you guys are incapable of making your own without a heavily subsidized industry! - Donteatyellowsnow"
• "You guys aren't Hollywood! No matter how much you try to convince yourselves of it. And yes, I would know because unlike you guys I actually do know something about the subject. So yes I do have a specialty, unlike many of you "dabblers" or Canadian nationalists who have to have their government provide welfare to support their workers because the films wouldn't come there without it. Why don't you guys just create your own independent Canadian films and hire your own workers? Why do you feel you have to steal Hollywood's industry away and then steal even the name of the U.S. film industry too. I mean, come on! Should we start referring to Eureka, California as "Vancouver South"?! Should we start calling Montreal "New York North"? Do you see how ridiculous it is.Donteatyellowsnow 04:21, 25 January 2007 (UTC"

(Found on Talk:Hollywood_North#Peer_Review_and_Archive)

• "Yes, what you are doing IS vandalism. Because you guys have some weird Canadian agenda... you and your buddies who are conspiring to undo every edit I make to a page that I CREATED. You have posted this and other pages on Canadian portals to try to do your dirty business for you (including the vote for Hollywood North). That page should have been deleted or renamed -- but instead it became a popularity vote. What you are doing to this article is NOT making it Wiki "model"-like. What you are doing is the very same thing that GEORGE W. BUSH does to our American EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) reports. He removes anything that he disagrees with or which doesn't promote his skewed vision of the world."
• "This isn't about the "weather" in Canada. It's so sad that you are so blindly in love with "the Great White North" that you can't see straight. No one asked you to be involved in this page. Examine your bias and check it at the door! (Or please just go make more arguments about whether Pluto is a planet or a star and leave the rest of us alone). And that goes for the rest of you Canadian parasites. Donteatyellowsnow"

(Found on Talk:Runaway_production#Donteatyellowsnow.27s_POV_edits) Similar messages can be found on a wide variety of user pages and edit summaries.

This user is also now starting to go around Misplaced Pages spreading lies about various editors.

• "Hi. There is a user who posted on here Skookum1 who is part of a contingency of Canadians who are doing personal attacks, deleting my edits, and generally making a hard time for any perspective on any pages that there is Canadian/American content on (I was actually surprised to see his name here as I came here on my own by your links to the California portal). But it makes sense that he is having spats with others on other pages because that is what he did with me -- making personal comments about me and such. If you are around and reading this (I know you said you are taking a break)... I would appreciate some help or advice in thwarting these people from their constant harassment of me, their constant reversions of my edits and their never ending and totally unfounded "warnings" they they post to my user talk page (including the fact that they are enlisting Canadian wiki "big guns" to try to threaten me or to try to get me blocked). Thanks. (A fellow American who is fed up). - Donteatyellowsnow"

(Found on User_talk:NorCalHistory#Nationalistic_Canadians)

Other various incidents and warnings can be seen at viewed here. He openly accused people of working for companies who are attempting to promote Canada as a film location: here and often attacks Canadians as reflected in his edits. Personal attack statements to other users and in articles are among some of his contributions: "Much debate has been sparked on when such references cease to be tributes and become plagiarism or just lack of originality."

He has been noted for vandalising and wipe articles. Some few examples: , , , , , the list goes on.

It could go on and on. This user fails to respond to warnings as he has been warned daily over a period of two months on Misplaced Pages. While not all his contributions are vandalism, they all consistently change the POV of the articles to which much clean up is needed (Misplaced Pages:Trolling). I feel this users contributions greatly take away from Misplaced Pages. Langara College 03:28, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

(edit conflict)I had a brief encounter with this user. I tried to talk to him about what is and what is not vandalism, and he seemed to think I was part of a group of partisan Canadians. His removal of content from his talk page makes it a bit tricky to look through, however I have made a tool that can retroactively create archives: User_talk:HighInBC/Temporary_page_indexes/Donteatyellowsnow. I don't really have any advice in this case. HighInBC 03:37, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

I've left a message on the user's talk page. Maybe this editor will appreciate hearing from a fellow Californian. Recommended WP:ADOPT and some practice editing other topics. From a browse of the edit history I'd refrain from the t-word in this instance. Based on a lengthy and cited addition to the bio of Los Angeles mayor Antonio Villaraigosa I consider it likely that this is an entertainment industry professional who's concerned about outsourcing of jobs to Canada (a genuine issue in that field) and may have a COI on the matter. Maybe this is someone who can adjust to site standards. Get in touch with me if problems continue. Maybe my SoCal location scores a point or two here. Durova 04:13, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

While he may be concerned with a genuine issue that may be a COI, I still feel that it does not excuse his vandalism to userpages, continuously removing maintenance templates, his exceptionally rude comments, randomly messaging other users with personal attacks about editors, accusing people of working for some sort of Canadian conspiracy, very anti-Canadian changes to articles, and disinterest in adhearing to concensus and other editors who have tried to give him friendly advice. This response just seems too light for someone who has already been blocked once and been informed about Misplaced Pages policy continuously and then deliberately ignores them. Langara College 05:48, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Starting with a friendly but cautionary note from a SoCal Admin is appropriate IMO. The goal is always to salvage potentially good (faith) editors while improving or at least protecting the encyclopedia. It's not wiki policy to punish editors for prior offences, and now that Durova's involved the editor's inappropriate actions will either be curtailed voluntarily or involuntarily. That's the Wiki Way. Shout out from a fellow Vancouverite, BTW. ;-) Anchoress 06:14, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Able Archer 83

This page is currently under attack by a user operating from a large number of IPs. He/she is replacing the page with a "9/11 Conspiracy" message. Kesac 04:26, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

User now attacking BitTorrent Kesac 04:40, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Listed the IPs on Misplaced Pages:WikiProject_on_open_proxies#Suspected_open_proxies_to_be_checked. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 04:51, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Sprotected able archer for one hour. Viridae 04:52, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

There were several other attacks. I've checked them with Special:Linksearch on www.mybittorrent.com/dl/565033/ —Ryūlóng (竜龍) 04:59, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Jacob Peters again

68.126.252.131 (talk · contribs) removed sourced material on Communist leaders while dismissing it as biased and dismissed western sources as blatantly biased . He generally shows support for a pro-communist POV while dismissing other views , . IP appears to be similar to ones already blocked as JP socks (see those at Misplaced Pages:Requests for checkuser/Case/Jacob Peters). Heimstern Läufer 04:49, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

• Blocked by User:Jpgordon. All is well. Heimstern Läufer 05:13, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

User:24.63.32.105

Could someone take a look at User:24.63.32.105? He's doing quite a number on the Nashua, New Hampshire page. He's been reverted several times in some basic blatant vandalism. Philippe Beaudette 05:23, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Nevermind, Nlu got him. :-) Philippe Beaudette 05:28, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Try WP:AIV next time. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 05:34, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I will. Philippe Beaudette 05:37, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

GunZ the Duel, persistent IP vandal(s).

After this comment from 201.34.85.59 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log), there have been many edits to the page, along the same lines, although it's not the same IP, so I don't think I can nominate them for AIV, even though they're most likely socks.

• 1 from 201.34.91.18 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log),
• 2 from 200.96.100.237 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log),
• 3 from 200.203.67.210 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log),
• 4 from 201.34.85.85 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log),

and as you can see in their contribs, more than one from most of them. I don't think this is suitable for AIV, 3RR, or requests for prot, really need assistance here, it's getting stupid -- feb 07:29, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Taking out of archive, this needs some form of attention.

• New: 5 from 200.203.110.129 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) -- feb 06:16, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

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