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Revision as of 04:55, 11 March 2007 editNoroton (talk | contribs)37,252 edits →Trainweb.org: rrrrrgggggghhhhhh← Previous edit Revision as of 10:46, 11 March 2007 edit undoBeetstra (talk | contribs)Edit filter managers, Administrators172,031 edits →Trainweb.org: AnswerNext edit →
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:::Why haven't you shown in your message any interest or concern with how readers actually use our articles? There is no other justifiable purpose in editing Misplaced Pages than that. None. It needs to be your first priority. Whatever rules you use need to be consistent with that first priority. Or those rules need to be junked or ignored as per ]. ] 04:55, 11 March 2007 (UTC) :::Why haven't you shown in your message any interest or concern with how readers actually use our articles? There is no other justifiable purpose in editing Misplaced Pages than that. None. It needs to be your first priority. Whatever rules you use need to be consistent with that first priority. Or those rules need to be junked or ignored as per ]. ] 04:55, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

:I can see you are angry, I will answer, but may sound cynical or retorical every now and then, my apologies for that. Please understand that the links were now removed under the guideline ] - "... wide-scale external link spamming, ... ", and later in the same guideline "Adding external links to an article or user page for the purpose of promoting a website or a product is not allowed, and is considered to be spam. Although the specific links may be allowed under some circumstances, repeatedly adding links will in most cases result in all of them being removed.". Also, the way you were adding makes could make me think that you are involved in the Council, which would be a ], but since I do not have proof either way, I can only think that.

:Just inbetween, your link addition was already contested, it might have been better to discuss the individual additions on either a wikiproject page, on ], or on the individual pages (taking into account you can always ask for an RfC), or considering other alternatives.

:Now considering the specific link. You are linking to . Nowhere on the external page that you linked on does it show the word "Danbury", hence, the link is not symmetrical (the link is not on-topic), because the page does not tell about this specific wikipedia page. There may be a deeper page under that homepage that tells about the Danbury station (how it was build, when it was build, how one can access it, if it has a toilet, if it has disabled access, whatever), but that is not the page you linked. And even then, the specific page should not tell about all the stations, but about only this one (still the symmetry rule), and as an external link it would still not be appropriate, because the information can be incorporated into the wikipedia (see the intro of ]). Or you could add content to the page which you retrieve from that page and use that specific sub-page as a ]. Just as a warning, please note that ] may define mass-addition of non-specific sentences like <nowiki>"This station is represented by the Connecticut Rail Commuter Council<ref>http://www.trainweb.org/ct/ Connecticut Rail Commuter Council website</ref>"</nowiki> as spam/canvassing as well; the does not see where in the document a link is added; we only see if a link is added quite often, or that one user is adding a link quite often.

:Considering ], that does apply to me as well; I do believe that the page gets better when this link is not there as the link (to this specific page on the site) does not tell anything about the stations (and the wikipedia page would comply better with the policies). The page would become better when adding content, and adding links that tunnel people away from the wikipedia does, IMHO, not make the encyclopedia better.
:I know policies are not set in stone, but that does not mean that we should ignore them at all, and I am sorry, but in adding this link I believe you ignored three policies and guidelines, which is more than 'an occasional exception'.

:Let me try and provide a solution (though I have not reviewed if it is really possible). I would suggest to write an article about the ] (here is the caveat; I hope the page would pass wikipedias ]). The external link would be directly and symmetrically linked to that page, and you would only add it once. The addition of a sentence linking to the Council-page might be considered canvassing when performed on a set of articles, but you could do that in a consideration of really adding more content to the article. Hope this helps. --] <sup>] ]</sup> 10:46, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Revision as of 10:46, 11 March 2007

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2005 Gerald Stern
2004 Mark Strand
2003 Richard Wilbur

See also

User:Noroton/List of notable bow-tie wearers

User:Noroton/American Academy of Arts and Letters Gold Medals

User:Noroton/poetry award listings

User:Noroton/Iraq consensus notes

User:Noroton/Scandal article thoughts

Useful pages

Welcome

Hello Noroton and welcome to Misplaced Pages! I'm glad you've chosen to join us. This is a great project with lots of dedicated people, which might seem intimidating at times, but don't let anything discourage you. Be bold!, explore, and contribute. Try to be civil by following simple guidelines and signing your talk comments with ~~~~ but never forget that one of our central tenets is to ignore all rules.

If you want to learn more, Misplaced Pages:Tutorial is the place to go, but eventually the following links might also come in handy:
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Float around until you find something that tickles your fancy. One easy way to do this is to hit the random page button in the navigation bar to the left. Additionally, the Community Portal offers a more structured way to become acquainted with the many great committees and groups that focus on specific tasks. My personal favorite stomping grounds are Misplaced Pages:Translation into English as well as the cleanup, welcoming, and counter-vandalism committees. Finally, the Wikimedia Foundation has several other wiki projects that you might enjoy. If you have any more questions, always feel free to ask me anything on my talk page. Again, welcome! -- Draeco 05:12, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Norwalk, CT

Hi, and thanks for your contributions to the Norwalk, Connecticut article. My only worry is that with all the external links, and not even explanations outside of the titles, the article is becoming a bit too much like a web directory. Could you possibly flesh out your recent additions, and remove the redunant links (e.g., lockwood mansion...). Thanks! TJ0513 02:08, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Demographics

Thanks for adding so much information about Connecticut. I did, however, have one concern. You keep moving town demographics to the bottom of the page. This is in direct conflict with wiki style. In an article about a town or city, demographics should be prominently placed near the top of the page. I just wanted to bring this to your attention, and your other edits are fine. Jagvar 19:31, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Notes

From bots page

Provides a good template of pre-formatted data for contributors (see how the Newton, Massachusetts entry has been expanded; the Periodic table was used to start the 100+ articles for the elements)

Format change on botted pages

First off, thanks for the question, but let me preface my comments by saying I'm on vacation in Thailand away from my comfort zone and don't really have time to give you a thorough answer. When I return home on the 15th, I'll try to do your question justice. First off, I would remind you to be bold, because the best way to solve problems can be to make waves and cause a discussion. I see no problem with adding a section of interesting facts to the article. Actually moving the Demographics section could be a little more problematic, since one of the nice things about bots is the uniform style they create. There's something to be said for that, and WP:BOTS does the saying. On the other hand, by adding your more personalized info, you're overcoming one of the bot shortcomings -- that botted pages are soulless and may never see a human edit. I added a few trifling facts to the arctile on my hometown of Burkesville, Kentucky, but as you'll see they were just plugged into the Geography section where they were appropriate. WP:MOS is the clearinghouse for style guidelines, but I don't have time to pore over that tome right now. Keep up the good fight and I'll talk to you about the 15th. - Draeco 11:24, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Henri Rousseau

Nice work. Check out footnote coding. Tyrenius 05:45, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

There's a lot to learn! This explains it Misplaced Pages:Footnotes. Some pages I've found helpful are here. Let me know if you need any assistance. Tyrenius 20:27, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Famous people in Wilton

Got your message: I actually don't doubt any of the names on that list, in the sense that I think that it's not true. The general Misplaced Pages policy, however, is all about Verifiability -- and putting up warning messages when we're not 100% sure that a book, newspaper, or other credible source hasn't already said what we're saying. Your suggestion, "to keep an eye out for references in the press or other evidence," is exactly the right thing to do. If you have a web URL, just surround it in marks and plop it right next to the statement. If you want to learn the fancier ways to do it, check out Misplaced Pages:Citing sources. Thanks for asking, and thanks for helping build up the Connecticut articles. --M@rēino 03:10, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Sorry about the edit

I could of sworn it was called the Stamford Advocate, until I checked their website. I corrected the article soon after changing it. I'll remember to check the facts before editing first. Again I am sorry for any problem I might have caused. --thinkpad 19:19, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Declaration of Independence

Hi Norton. I think your addition of these pictures is great, and the link to the website that identifies the people is interesting as well. However, you can't really recognize many personal features no matter how big this image is, and besides for cosmetic reasons, the image needs to match the scale of the other images. The caption should also be concise and to the point. The article is about the person, not the painting, the painter or even the Declaration of Independence. Also, regarding the Delaware folks, Rodney was not even there, Dickinson was strongly against it and says he was hiding in the back somewhere, and Read did not vote for it either, although he eventually signed. So I would really ask that the display be at 300px and the caption limited to a line or two at the most. Perhaps you could do an article on the painting itself, with an enlarged version and the label could provide a link to that article for all the detailed information. Please give it some thought. stilltim 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Blueberry

Nice additions; couple of requests - could you convert the new refs you've added to the same style as the existing ones (Harvard style) so the refs list is consistent (I don't have a post-doc degree in computing so don't know how to work those < ref > tags), and please avoid adding too many headers for the length of the page! I'm also a little dubious about having all those commercial ext links to grower associations, they're a bit close to spamlinks - thanks, MPF 09:08, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi Noroton - thanks for the details; I'll go through (probably tomorrow) and see what I can work out on which refs belong where (some of them are mine, but not all). I know the numbered refs look nice on the page, but I'm a firm believer in wiki editing access to everyone - and if I've been here for over 2½ years and still can't fathom out how to work them, I hate to think how daunting they must be for new editors without a lot of computing experience. Paragraph length I guess is a matter of individual preference, my own personal feeling is that roundabout 20 lines per header looks best, otherwise, the TOC gets to be too big. For ext links, there's a general feeling that they only go in if providing reference for something in the article, rather than a general link farm; there's some fairly extensive guidelines at WP:EL and WP:NOT, have a look through there and see what you think (after reading through them I usually end up deleting, rather than keeping, ext links!). Thanks again! - MPF 21:46, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Guicciardini

Your contribs are interesting: Connecticut, Connecticut, Connecticut, Connecticut, Connecticut, Guicciardini, Connecticut, Connecticut... whoops, how did that get in there?! No seriously -- nice article :) I'm reading his Storia d'Italia for a seminar, nice to get a little background on the guy. --Bookgrrl 17:33, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Many thanks

Hello, Noroton.

While editing pages is so easy on Misplaced Pages, I still have not figured out how to simply "respond" to a "message." So I will post this note on your page. Perhaps this is the proper way.

I have long suspected that the Robert Fitzgerald-Flannery O'Connor connection to Ridgefield was postal only. Several people have asked me about this over the years. Finally, when I saw what was online here, I went to the town clerk's office, and confirmed that Robert S. Fitzgerald never owned property here (a Robert H. Fitzgerald had land a short distance from Redding in 1948). Then I checked out own newspaper files (I have been editor of the Ridgefield newspaper for more than 35 years), and found a brief, old reference to Robert Fitzgerald, saying he lived in Redding. Our staff at our Redding newspaper checked their files and found that, indeed, he had lived there. They had stories about him from the 50s and 60s and from 2000. His home was not far from the Ridgefield town line and besides getting his mail from the Ridgefield post office, he probably also did much of his shopping in Ridgefield. However, he paid his taxes in Redding, and voted there.

Thank you for your kind words. I am in the throes of trying to update Ridgefield Names, which has grown into a 200,000 word monstrosity. But I enjoy it nonetheless.

I see that you are involved in providing information on many area communities. You are doing a wonderful service.

I have expanded on the Keeler Tavern, Aldrich Museum, and added the Ridgefield Playhouse to the Attractions, Landmarks, and Institutions. I also plan to add a section on Geology -- which is pretty interesting here.

I am wondering about your source for "Of the families to settle in Ridgefield, the Rockwells and Lounsburys owned approximately one third of the land in Ridgefield by 1900." I have never heard this, and have much trouble believing it. That would mean they owned more than 11 square miles -- over 7,000 acres. That's nearly the size of the whole town of Darien. Jack Sanders 23:35, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Ridgefield and Redding

Greetings again. You might be interested to know that I knew Betty Boyd for many years. In fact, she was my boss. Betty Boyd -- or as we knew her -- Betty Grace Boyd Nash -- married Karl S. Nash, publisher of The Ridgefield Press (and eventually, The Redding Pilot). She was the longtime managing editor of those and other papers (that today include the Darien Times). Betty Grace was the daughter of Thomas Boyd, whose World War I novel, Through the Wheat, has been called one of the best portraits of war ever written. She died several years ago. I am not sure she ever knew about the O'Connor reference. For many, many years, she used the "personals" section of the classified ads in her own papers the way we use e-mail today. She would send messages to all sorts of family and friends who she knew read the paper. In 1949, she may have been courting Karl Nash -- or vice versa -- and the ad writer may well have been Karl. A few days ago, I did put a footnote on the Fitzgerald page and changed O'Connor. Guess I better put a footnote on O'Connor, too, as you suggest. I better get rid of that Rockwell/Lounsbury reference. It's just not possible. (In doing Ridgefield Names, I read every single deed filed in the town clerk's office from 1708 to 1900, and recall no sense of vast Lounsbury/Rockwell land ownership. And there is nothing in the local histories that would indicate such.) Thanks and best wishes. Jack Sanders 14:38, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Still much to learn...

Hi I am having a bit of a problem creating a new page on Branchville, and then linking it. I created the page, but probably did it incorrectly. The address is http://en.wikipedia.org/Branchville%2C_Connecticut, but I think it should have the Connecticut in parentheses. Did not know how to do that -- unless it's simply to put the name in parentheses in the title! Will fiddle with it a tad. Many thanks for your observations and help!Jack Sanders 16:32, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Onward and upward

Figured out Branchville finally, and all seems well. I believe you are responsible for Georgetown, so you might enjoy the map I upoaded (my first experiment in dealing with images -- basically, I copied the coding you had done on the Ridgefield page). I also made a couple of modifications with respect to Ridgefield's relation to Georgetown, and footnoted the information.—Jack Sanders 18:33, 10 September 2006 (UTC)


On the subject

You took out a Trump picture from People of Greenwich, Connecticut, saying it wasn't on topic. You can't get more on topic than that. I'm restoring it. And that wasn't "commentary" in the caption, either.Noroton 16:44, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Commentary is anything that can be considered NPOV. What if I thought he was having a particularly good hair day? I would have a difference in opinion with something you are presenting as "fact". Fair use images should not be used in articles not about the creator of the fair use image (Trump Productions LLC/Mark Burnett Productions/NBC/Universal Music & Video Distribution), or an article dealing in depth with the subject of the image. Lists don't deal in depth. Saavy? -- Zanimum 17:03, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, I've just been reading up on the Fair Use page. The people article is not in depth, so you're right, it isn't fair use. I'll be removing some other pics there too. As for "bad hair day" that's fact, not opinion. You shouldn't try to be so literal on the policy.Noroton 17:11, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for taking the images off. No, trust me, I'm not being too literal of the NPOV policy, although I do appreciate humor. Ask on the Misplaced Pages:Help desk for a second opinion, if you wish. -- Zanimum 17:22, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
Sorry, I'm a little upset. I'm killing off my babies on each of the "People in" pages I've created. It's a slaughterhouse.Noroton 17:25, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
It's okay, I'm sure I'd be too. However, there are some other people you could add into the article. The articles on Clyde Fitch, Roger Glover and Regis Philbin include free images you could use, plus there's a free image of Mel Gibson, if you don't mind embaressing Greenwich with the pic. -- Zanimum 17:51, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Georgetown post office

Greetings again! Georgetown post office no longer actually delivers mail. P.O. boxes and window service only. And back in the 1950s, when Georgetown did deliver, Ridgefield residents in the Branchville section voted not to get their mail from Georgetown, but from Ridgefield. Old Connecticut loyalties, I guess. The odd thing is, the town of Redding has FOUR post offices for about 9,000 people: Redding, West Redding, Redding Ridge, and Georgetown. Ridgefield, population 23,000, has one post office, and it's the world's worst.


Derogatory Article.

The article you made concerning Norwalk's education system is very derogatory and makes me feel very unfortunate indeed. What is your aim? Gentlyfloatingabout 19:28, 21 September 2006 (UTC)


Nothing will suddenly be done if someone, possibly an important official, sees that article. Norwalk just doesn't have the funding from the taxes it receives. It is not as rich as the surrounding towns. And it is very sad, especially since that there is nothing that may be done. Gentlyfloatingabout 01:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm being REALISTIC when I say that Norwalk does not have the funding! Gentlyfloatingabout 21:17, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

pre-Iraq War comments

I voted for Rename and Cleanup for yout pre-Iraq War opinions on Saddam Hussein. I think that the article should definitely exist whether or not this carnation of it is deleted, but I think you need to go back and thoroughly get all major opinions on the matter. This is a topic fraught with controversy, so you need to be prepared to be completely neutral not only in writing style, but in content. Anyway, Good Luck with it! Joshdboz 11:24, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Agree with Joshdboz's comments. This is a very hot political topic, so you have to be super-scrupulous about NPOV. Whether a separate article is needed is also questionable, in my view. The material is interesting and valuable, but might be better used in already existing articles about the leadup to the Iraq war. Also, I'm glad your category on conservatives was retained. I never did understand the delete position on that category. Casey Abell 13:39, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Pre-Iraq War -- changing to Neutral

I think that your latest efforts at improving the article present a good-faith effort at removing POV issues. There is a lot that still needs to be done, however, in terms of its structure. I will see if I can work on it a little more over the next few days. In the meantime, I am changing my vote on the article to Neutral and will see if we can reach a common ground. Andrew Levine 18:15, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Pre Iraq war

Im very busy with other articles ive been working on. But my opinion is that this should be put under the Saddam Husseinarticle. But if not then it defitnley needs to be renamed. How about Opinions on Iraq War or go to the Iraq Warpage. CMB. --Zonerocks 15:35, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Help

You could help me if you want with other articles. I am currently working on the Reconstruction and The Changing SouthIf you could make internal links with the words in the article, I would really appriciate it. This is a really good article which could become an featured article someday. --Zonerocks 15:35, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

thanks, appriciate it. Saved me alot of time. Better get back to fixing this article. --Zonerocks 20:57, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Great Captain Island/Light?

I like it! The second picture was too big so I made it a little smaller. I dont think that 2 pictures make it crowded, if we get more pictures, we can just make a gallery. Thanks for expanding the history. --Digon3 14:51, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Talk: Bow ties

I can't believe I just waded into that discussion. Thanks for bringing it to my attention, though. Johndodd 01:27, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Ditto for me, but thanks for the head's up. It was possibly the most well-discussed merger of trival stuff ever, but I was glad to be part of it. Cornell Rockey
I think that if all names are on the list, with a summary on the article page, with all the photos in the gallery remaining on the article page, that will work. As I have said before, I particularly like the photo gallery of bow tie wearers. Doc ♬ talk 02:58, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

History of Norwalk, Connecticut

Hi; I've endorsed this revision of this page. Note that I don't have a particularly strong feeling one way or another; I simply made a call and there it is. I don't assert any particular authority to freeze the page at any moment. Indeed, I'm sure this article can be further improved. I just have to question whether you two can do so, right at the moment. Please lend me your ears for a bit while I comment.

Noroton (talk · contribs) and TJ0513 (talk · contribs), you seem to be in the middle of an edit war. Page history does not indicate any blatant 3RR violation and, if you think you're not edit warring, this is probably why. Let me just suggest that edit wars come in all shapes and sizes; 3RR only forbids one particular kind. Other edit wars are also frowned upon and occasionally grounds for sanctions. The general principle is discuss, don't revert. This theme runs through many of our policies.

My suggestion is that you both take a break from this particular page. I don't particularly care if my edit stands or if the very next editor who comes along reverts it -- just so long as it's not one of you guys. Let a few other guys get in their licks; see which way the wind blows. You may be surprised at what the rest of the community has to say. Give it a month. Remember, all versions are safely stored in page history; there is no emergency, nothing will be lost. You've both commented on talk extensively so other editors will be aware of the controversy. No problem!

There are many outstanding tasks around here; no shortage of work to be done. Build up some good karma and I'm wiling to bet that in a month from now, you'll both find your concerns fully addressed. If there's any way I can possibly help, just ask.

I'd like to repeat that I'm totally uninvolved in this issue; I've never even been to Connecticut, despite having lived many years in the Rust Belt. I don't even particularly worry that the project will fall down if you fight over this article. But I hope I'm able to help preserve two valuable contributors to the project; this I care about a great deal. Thank you. John Reid 08:12, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Name-holders

Name-holders are people who hold a name. If you clicked on the primary link in the Alexander (disambiguation) page which was mentioned in the name-holders sentence, the context might have been clearer. Please stop cluttering the disambiguation page with stuff that is available in the base name article. -- JHunterJ 21:10, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

You have me confused?

Um, while you are welcome for the note, I do not remember ever having come in contact with you :). I did, however, check through my contributions (Yay for "last 5000 contributions" button) and I can find no mention of your name. Where exactly is this note? GofG || Contribs 02:07, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

wrong William Charles

Hi! Thanks for your note at Misplaced Pages:Canadian wikipedians' notice board/Dictionary of Canadian Biography/C re: William Charles. I have disambiguated to William Charles (fur trader) and added a proper link there. Thanks again. --Stormbay 03:25, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

links to 'years in' (prizes)

might be easier just to put one link to years in poetry/lit in the see also, and maybe mention it at top? i had assumed those links were to the general year things. these also might usefull to viewers to get idea of the hist. context. both of course shld have links to each other, i guess what is 1st linked from the dates on the prizes shld be the 'most likely to be wanted'. which wld this be? → bsnowball 14:44, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
sorry, though i had replied earlier. i hadn't thought that thru enough. as yet no usefull thoughts except, tenuously, this looks like a lot of reduplication, might there short cuts like w/ transclusion? random idea, i'll have to think about it. otherwise suspect the 'years in' pages only need the really big prizes, & why can't the poetry go in the years in lit? if that doesn't get to big i assume that wld be better all round. → bsnowball 17:53, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
guess it's been almost a week & it doesn't look like there's any concerted opposition :) do you also agree it wld be the List of poetry awards? can do that this evening. (next few hrs) no more thoughts on the years, although i do lean towards having them both under lit. maybe input from the Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Literaturewld be useful. ps the list of mothers & fathers is great, tempted to add mary & god or god & god just to see how long it takes... → bsnowball 08:15, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

the merge is done, fairly sure i got it all. for now i moved the non-english with it, can decide on that now i suppose (there's acctually very little of them). yes, i'm aust. agree about that (don't need sep. oz prizes, & yes, small enough to go on 'year in lit pages', one day i'll get around to a real oz po page...) otherwise i guess yr judgement is better on the years in as yr the one doing all the work.  ⇒ bsnowball  11:34, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Bullets

What's with removing the bullets? They are pretty much the predominant style in Misplaced Pages, and much easier to maintain than having to be careful to have a <br /> at the end of every line. - Jmabel | Talk 05:53, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm still thinking this through. I've been doing a lot of work recently with poetry awards lists and year-in-poetry pages, so I've been looking at various styles and trying to figure out what the best ones would be. When I first came across the "/br" I had the same reaction as you, and you make the best case there is for keeping them (ease of updating and near uniformity). And the Poet Laureate page you link to may actually work better with bullets throughout (I was a little uneasy after changing that one). Here's my thinking: (1) The "br/" stuff at the end of each line is really a minor difficulty that anyone can figure out the first time and sail through all the other times. (2) Making things uniform is a worthy goal, but -- I think --making the page more inviting for the reader is usually more important. Sometimes those two things go together, sometimes not and sometimes maybe we should change uniforms. (3) The reader knows what to expect when he sees the bullets, but in cases where the reader will instantly understand what's being presented, the bullets are unnecessary. The page then looks much better without an unnecessary element. For instance, where a whole page or a section is clearly labeled a list, or if it's obvious that the reader is looking at a list, the bullets are just clutter. (4) If individual lines on the list are long (especially if items take up more than one line), then bullets help and should be retained. (5) In weighing whether to make things easier on the readers or on the editors, the readers' interests should trump the editors' unless something is very difficult for the editors. I don't think that's the case here.
Anyway, that's what I'm thinking so far. I decided when I made the change on that page that if anyone strongly objected I wouldn't oppose changing it back. On that page there are lists in somewhat different forms (and there's one spot where I didn't think I could remove bullets without confusing readers), so for uniformity's sake within the page, it might be better to bullet everything. Please think about it further, I'd be interested in what you think. Some pages have tables with a lot of lines in them (and some people have told me they hate all those lines for the way they look). Other pages have much more elegant tables without lines that are easy to read, others have lists with bullets and still others lists without bullets. There's a wide variety right now on the literary awards pages, and I'm trying to find the best examples and make those formats more common. Regards, Noroton 18:03, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
I don't have any really strong feelings about this, just a prediliction for keeping things relatively uniform. If I wanted something without bullets, I would use an appropriately formatted table (done with wikitable syntax).
By the way, another sometimes useful possibility if a list is very long is to make it multi-column: <div class="references-small" style="-moz-column-count:2; column-count:2;"> </div>. I'm sure you could do something similar with the <div> element or CSS to suppress the visibility of bullets in a list (much less error-prone because the style issue is dealt with in one place, at the top of the list), but offhand I don't know what it is; it would involove re-styling the <li> element. - Jmabel | Talk 18:39, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

List of people in Greenwich, CT?

I came across this page via Google, and I had a couple questions:

1) What is the standard for inclusion on this page? 2) On a more personal note, why exactly did you choose to include Bruce Zirinsky (my father), and what is your relation to him (if any)?Jzirinsky 22:33, 20 November 2006 (UTC) Jzirinsky

Response, in reverse order, and probably longer than what you were looking for: (2) I really can't remember if I included him or if someone else did. For instance, a number of people add names to the Greenwich page and I often move those names to the "People in Greenwich, Connecticut" page; I recently changed the name of that page to "People from Greenwich, Connecticut" and for any of those reasons you might have picked up my name even if I didn't originally add him; but it's also possible that I saw his name in the New York Times and decided to include him -- I have some vague recollection about that, but I'm not sure. Since I tend to "patrol" that page, I may have seen someone put up the name, then did a Google search to see if I should take it down and then seen the Times article, I just don't know. If I was the one who included his name, then my only relation to him was reading his name in that article.
(1) I've thought about this a lot: The standard should be that someone is nationally known for some prominent endeavor. Not fame, but "notability." If I recall correctly, he was the lead lawyer in some mergers or acquisitions of some very major companies. To me, that seems notable enough, although it's a gray area. My thinking is that someone who is the CEO of a major company or of a company that is known nationwide should be on these lists (I put the CEO of Morton's Steakhouses on the New Canaan page, for example) or someone who is centrally involved in some nationally known thing should be on one of these local lists. The architect or builder of the George Washington Bridge, the inventor of the Hoola Hoop, an actor involved in a few movies in more than a tiny role would also be people I'd put on these lists.
In most cases, by the way, I simply clicked on the "What links here" item in the "toolbox" at the left of the page for the "Greenwich, Connecticut" article and when I looked down the list and found prominent people, I added them to the "People from Greenwich" list.
If you feel uncomfortable with his inclusion or think it may be a violation of his privacy, please feel free to take his name off -- or if you'd rather I did, I can do it, and I can see that it isn't put back up. Noroton 22:59, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Year in Poetry

At Poetry of the United States, you added a bunch of "year in poetry" links. So, I said to myself, OK, wonder what there is of interest there. And I clicked on the year of H.D.'s birth, only to see that her birth isn't even itself on the page (which would be OK if, say, it focused on what was published that year, which it doesn't), which only contained something like four items in all. So... are these "Year in Poetry" pages substantive enough to be worth linking to? - Jmabel | Talk 01:19, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

That makes sense; the question then becomes, though (and I promise this is not hostile) is it useful to link from birth dates? I can definitely see linking publication years this way, and building up a good list of what was published; but, sure, have at it, I was mostly wondering if this was something you were building or if you were linking into a half-abandoned scheme that someone else had built. - Jmabel | Talk 01:33, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
Yes, the "year in poetry" and "year in literature" pages should certainly interlink; I suggest, though, that you link from "year in literature" pages to "year in poetry" pages only for examples of the latter that have some substance and are worth a click; as there are more of these, add more links.

Victorino Matus

The only source in the article does not qualify as a reliable source, because it is a link to the subject's employer's website. User:Zoe|(talk) 01:48, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Did you read WP:RS#Using_online_and_self-published_sources? When a well-known, professional researcher writing within their field of expertise, or a well-known professional journalist, has produced self-published material, these may be acceptable as sources, so long as their work has been previously published by credible, third-party publications. Has this material been previously published by a credible, third-party publication? User:Zoe|(talk) 17:16, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I've posted to WP:AN trying to get further input on this. If they agree with you, then I won't bother you any more. User:Zoe|(talk) 18:21, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

List of years in poetry

You've been doing great work on the years in poetry pages! If you've got any ideas or come across thoughts for the Poetry Portal, it could really use some other perspectives for good articles, poems to list, etc. Best, Sam 23:06, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

The easiest way to add things to the portal is to go to the "archive" page (it is generally linked to at the bottom of each box), choose a week or month coming up, and click on the link for that week - then you can add in the poetry, quote or article. Once you do it two or three times, it becomes second nature. I'm not very active on Wiki at the moment, and more just trying to maintain some of the things I've contributed to in the past, like the Poetry Portal and the article on Poetry, but there are only about three or four people contributing to the Poetry Portal, and after a bit it is pretty easy to see who has contributed what. After the years in poetry project gets a bit farther along, I think it would make sense to propose it as a Featured List. I'd also like to use it as a basis for really fleshing out the History of poetry page, which is in desparate need of help. Sam 00:30, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

1913 in poetry

Hi ... I'll echo the above comments to say what excellent work you've been doing on the years in poetry. I never dreamt that they would get this far so fast!

I see you moved Bridges' laureateship to the 'Awards' section in 1913 in poetry. To me this doesn't feel quyite right. The U.K. laureateship is only given when the old laureate dies, so it is not a regular thing like most awards. To me it seems more of a 'title' than an 'award' or a 'prize'. Because it only happens a few times a century it seems me to better categorized as an 'Event'. The other laureateships are all categorized as events. I guess we should agree on this, and then make all the years consistent. Cheers. Stumps 07:07, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

I noted that some of these categories are labeled "Awards", some "Awards and Honors", and made this one the latter just so it would fit if we leave it there. I am neutral as to whether it goes under Awards and Honors or events, but do see the virtue in consistency. (I do think we should specify that this is British or English Poet Laureate, however, and not just indicate "Poet Laureate", as I note is sometimes done). Best, Sam 14:55, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Kensett Image

I noticed that you added an image of a Kensett painting to the article on him. Your subject is Darien Shore. In my opinion, this is a minor example of his work and does not enhance the article. The one image before you added yours is one of his masterpieces. I would respectfully suggest that the image of Darien Shore (and the other one since added) be removed. I welcome your comments. JJ 13:34, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

I still feel the Darien painting should go. The image is too small, the frame detracts (although I could "remove" it), and, in my opinion, the quality of the painting is weak. I agree that The Old Pine is a good painting. JJ 20:37, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
OK. I'll eliminate the image and change the title (a bit) on the other. I am not opposed to a gallery, and I'll get back to your with some suggestions. Mount Washington from the Valley of Conway should stay where it is in the article. It's one of his very best works. JJ 20:54, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
Here's one from my site which you're free to use: http://whitemountainart.com/OnePageImages/chocorua_jfk_101.htm. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by JohnJHenderson (talk • contribs) 21:51, 8 December 2006 (UTC).
Here's another fine example: http://www.artchive.com/artchive/k/kensett/kensett_beacon_rock.jpg. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by JohnJHenderson (talk • contribs) 21:58, 8 December 2006 (UTC).
We'd need a larger image of Bash Bish: http://www.nationalacademy.org/perm/images/kensett.jpg. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by JohnJHenderson (talk • contribs) 22:02, 8 December 2006 (UTC).
This images is not true to its true colors: http://www.metmuseum.org/Works_of_Art/viewOnezoom.asp?dep=2&zoomFlag=0&viewmode=0&item=15%2E30%2E61. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by JohnJHenderson (talk • contribs) 22:07, 8 December 2006 (UTC).
A great painting: http://www.metmuseum.org/Works_of_Art/viewOnezoom.asp?dep=2&zoomFlag=0&viewmode=1&item=25%2E110%2E5. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by JohnJHenderson (talk • contribs) 22:10, 8 December 2006 (UTC).
We'd need a larger image of: http://www.montclairartmuseum.org/SearchCollections_details.cfm?id=98 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by JohnJHenderson (talk • contribs) 22:12, 8 December 2006 (UTC).
Another fine painting, and from Darien: http://www.metmuseum.org/Works_of_Art/viewOnezoom.asp?dep=2&zoomFlag=0&viewmode=0&item=74%2E24 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by JohnJHenderson (talk • contribs) 22:16, 8 December 2006 (UTC).

Gallery of Images

If you wish to see an exmaple of how I used a gallery, please see the article on White Mountain art.

Kensett was a great artist, and there are dozens of fine examples of his works. I'm still considering your comments. 76.179.170.248 20:20, 8 December 2006 (UTC) This message was from JJ 21:43, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Painting Descriptions

On another topic, the title of paintings should be consistent. I use the following as my guidline. <artist name (birth-death); painting title; current owner. For example,

John Frederick Kensett (1816-1872); Mount Washington from the Valley of Conway; Collection of Wellesley College, Wellesley, Massachusetts.

Your title, especially of the Darien painting, it too long. And, the auction price of this painting seems unnecessary, especially as part of a title. Auction prices are, really, a whole separate topic. If the user wants more information about the painting, he can click on it. Please tell me if you feel I'm wrong. JJ 20:29, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

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Against the Day

Hi,

I have yet to finish reading AtD (it's my Christmas treat) but I can assure you that as soon as I have done so I will aprticpate in the improvement of the Misplaced Pages entry, which, at a glance (don't want to spoil the surprise!), is looking fantastic already.

Thanks

Martin Hinks 18:07, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Academy Award

Thanks for making such a good contribution to the Academy Award article, to be honest I simply did not want to find all those references and I'm glad you took the initiative. Also to be honest, that was the first time I had ever been accused of vandalism and sockpuppetry because of one edit, so I may have been overhasty dragging it to the RfC board, but look what a positive outcome it had!--Dmz5 07:30, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

License tagging for Image:FredChappellPoet.jpg

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1860's articles

Hi there, I deleted some sections of it because having empty sections there was a litle bit of a waste of space and will take up unnecessary room on the servers, but if you are going to add information to them eventually then I'll leave them, and I can fully respect that, anyway great contributions! Have a great New Years Eve!

Respectfully... Tellyaddict 18:35, 31 December 2006 (UTC)


19th century

Nice going on getting the years set up for the whole 19th century; it will now be much easier to add information from some of the lists of poets that focus on poets of the last couple centuries. Sam 22:15, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Tackling the 18th century

It's been a long time since I've read much Byron; I'm planning on pausing a bit on creating the basic years (maybe a week or two) and spending some time adding to the pages we've created. With two centuries of basic pages, we can cover a lot of the national poetry lists (I just did the Modern Greek one, for example); once we get the 18th century in, it's possible to add all of the Russian poets and their works. But doing this is a good way of remembering all that is out there. Sam

Notability of events in poetry

Hi, I've left a comment on the relevant talk page. And BTW yes I did start the years in poetry pages, but had no idea that they would grow so rapidly. I'm amazed at how much effort you have put in on them!! Stumps 02:27, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

List of bow ties

I looked at your changes and changed my vote. What you added is interesting (take care to avoid WP:OR, though) and I think it could merit an article (or be merged into Bow tie). I still think that the list itself is fairly pointless. ::mikmt 02:23, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Just a note to tell you that I agree. Your new content is good, and merging it into Bow tie (which is rather short) sounds like a good idea, but I still think that the main list itself is pretty useless. I've also changed my vote. Hut 8.5 18:42, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Bowtie list page

Hi i get the message you left me on my discussion page and i had just given my vote to keep. Its a pitty some people really want to shred other people's work citing things just as unencyclopedic, well anyways i find the list on that page interesting and it shouldn't be deleted. Wish you good luck, cheers, --HappyApple 03:23, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the message

Noroton: thanks. Could you in future please leave messages on my talk page?--Poetlister 22:44, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

on "famous"

Thanks for your reply. I wish I had come into that debate sooner; I really wanted to sink that damn list! =P I'd actually expect that a list of bow-tie wearers has a more coherent criterion than a list of tall people. I would warn you though; adding "famous" to any title is inevitably going to be reverted out of the title later, possibly quite quickly. Per WP:PEACOCK, "famous" is really not a word that belongs, in many editors' opinions. The thing is that we don't have any objective criteria for evaluating "fame". The only thing we have is WP:BIO for notability, and if someone passes BIO then it's hard to argue that they don't belong anywhere else that they might reasonably be placed. The tall men list actually used to be "list of famous tall men" but that got taken out and I don't expect that it will ever be put back. — coelacan talk — 22:15, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Catullus

I have read over the new article, and I must say it has changed signficantly. I don't know exactly what you've added, but the notes on scholarly debates, suggested translation and symbolism all seem to be up-to-scratch. They also cohere greatly with what I studied myself. The references at the bottom of the page are great for supporting evidence. I'm happy to see, that my own original notes have been kept, and that people have just expanded on them. Thematic unity and disunity is something that scholars have argued over for centuries - and will continue to do so unless we find more Catullus hidden somewhere. All-in-all I think you've done a great job and if you'd like to help me out with any other sourcing, or debates that you find, feel free to edit the Wiki Books project. I look forward to working with you in the future. Alakazam138 11:09, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

My pleasure. I only have limited access to academic libraries too at the moment but I do have Quinn, who can be used to reference many things in the article. Quinn briefly mentions the poem as being inspired by a couple of Hellenistic epigrams by Meleager of Gadara (not one of Misplaced Pages's fuller articles that, by the way). I suspect Anyte might be relevant too. The trouble is, unless you have a reliable source saying so, this constitutes original research. There is a poem by George Gascoigne ("Of all the birds that I do know/Philip the Sparrow hath no peer") which is almost certainly influenced by Catullus 2 but I can't find a critic saying so. You might find a translation by a notable English poet though. I think Richard Lovelace translated quite a few poems by Catullus. Cheers. --Folantin 14:13, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I use Daniel Garrison and some online sites for my references. If you'd like to type up the Quinn's viewpoint then, that will lead to some neutrality and potential discussions about scholarly debates. if you are interested in working on the WikiBooks project of Catullus, then let me know and we could sort soemthing out - perhaps a division of the work load and some standard templates. Let me know what you think. Email me if you like? Alakazam138 14:51, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/List of palindromic phrases in English

Your comments in the AfD were added before two related articles were added to it as a group nomination. Please clarify whether your vote applies to all 3 or not. Thanks, Jerry lavoie 02:07, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Catullus Textbook

Thanks for relaying that message back. My late reply is due to the fact that I was on holiday in Berlin. Back now in England. :D I think Folantin would be a great help to the Textbook because of his knowledge of Catullus' influence after death. Thanks for that scribe's message too, that could open up a large section on scholarly debates about the Catullus we have - and whether its accurate or not. If you'd like to help, then let me know. Also what ae your main specialties or interests with Catullus? If you just like it, and haven't studied it as such, then I'm still happy for you potentially work on the subject. It would be a learning curve perhaps. :D Alakazam138 14:55, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Death lists

Hello. Per your vote at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/List of Deaths in Scream, could I please draw your attention to this multiple AFD. Cheers. The JPS 15:53, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for you comments. Am I alone in thinking that those death sections in articles are hideous? They are also redundant with the plot section (which discusses them in context), and looks completely childish. The JPS 19:27, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

RE:Winfield High School (West Virginia)

Thanks for commenting on my talk page. As for the article, I've changed my vote to Keep, per the changes. Talk to you later. Alex43223 23:44, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi, Noroton. You've made a good example of enormously improving an article in such a short time. Good job! Regards. PeaceNT 03:10, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

PeaceNT has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling to someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy editing!
Smile at others by adding {{subst:User:Cowman109/Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

→ You're welcome PeaceNT 03:18, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Re: Thanks

Oh, thank you as well; you've improved the Lone Horn/One Horn (good one on the redirect) article with adding the info/photograph to it. oncamera 23:48, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Just a word of advice. If you are just setting up the pages and returning later to fill them please state this in the edit summary when you start the article. Otherwise empty new pages are likely to be considered for deletion by new page patrollers. Cheers Ernst Stavro Blofeld 15:36, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Regarding subjects being of interest the future.

As a guideline, notability is generally permanent. The requirement is for multiple independent reliable sources, and once those exist, they generally exist forever. (Although if the sources do disappear completely, then we have no way of verifying, so we could not include it). (:—siroχo 20:41, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Article for Deletion comment

Thanks for your note on my talkpage about changing your view on AfD. its good to know people read them! I was strating to think they werent! --PrincessBrat 20:04, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Schools, Afd

Hi, Ive just seen your comments on the afd for Colby High School and had a read of your schools essay and I agree with you 100%! Im trying to keep the City of Portsmouth Boys' School article from being deleted. The article is much more referenced than the Colby article. Please do drop by the AfD and discuss your thoughts. CPBS. LordHarris 04:14, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Sorry meant to reply ages ago. Thanks for your support on the CPBS article - it was definately one of the larger debates about a school wikipedia has had for a while. Ill keep paying attention to the schools for deletion page as its on my watch list, but I have missed a few. If you occasionaly see a few that really need keeping then please let me and ill drop by the review process. Anyway thanks again!.LordHarris 00:29, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Thank you very much for your work on listing the school deletions. It's a topic that I'm interested in, and I'm glad that someone's keeping up with centralizing the discussions. :) --Elonka 20:58, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Cape Coral High School

You're most welcome. The compliment was well deserved.

Didn't know that about WP:SCHOOLS. That's one of those policies that will be debated for quite some time. I'm personally of the opinion that pretty much all schools, particularly high schools and up, deserve an article because they are often a major focus of their respective communities. The only problem is that they so often attract high levels of vandalism — I'm constantly having to deal with vandals for nearby Hoover High School (Alabama), not only because it has a healthy share of rivals and detractors, but also because of its visibility on the MTV show Two-A-Days. I used to deal with a lot of these people when I was the managing editor of the Hoover Gazette, and I still see it now working for The Birmingham News. (I just filed a story minutes ago for a county baseball championship game they won.) School articles can be "high maintenance," to put it mildly, but so can articles for many other notable subjects. It just goes with being Misplaced Pages.

Anyway, thanks for greatly improving the Cape Coral article. I'll dig a barnstar out of petty cash when I get past my deadline tonight. :-) Realkyhick 02:25, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Deadline has passed, the Sunday Metro Edition is put to bed, so now...
The Editor's Barnstar
For excellence in turning an article about a school, which was proposed for deletion, into a truly useful article, I hereby award The Editor's Barnstar. Realkyhick 06:28, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Copyright Question

Hi, I posted my opinion on the copyright issue at the AfD page, but my understanding is that if a list involves creative thought or arrangement (as opposed to a mechanical process lacking creativity), it is protected by copyright. This one's entirely creative and subjective, so it is an original work of authorship and protected. That's my understanding anyway. Interesting issue, thanks for sending it my way. --Butseriouslyfolks 01:38, 5 March 2007 (UTC)


Plymouth-Canton Marching Band

Hey, thanks so much for your support as well as communicating with me. I'm a fairly new comer, so edits are a little more difficult! :-D

Yes, I do need some help. I have news paper articles dating back to 1999 as well as a House resolution passed about the band, (if that helps). If you could give me some tips or templates to help me out, I would REALLY appreciate it. Thanks!Refusetobesilenced 22:07, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

I appreciate your comments! You were really helpful and am thankful that there are people out here who don't just wanna chew you out for being and idiot, but will actually help you learn the ropes! Thanks again! Refusetobesilenced 03:12, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Torrington, CT

I see you added some census numbers to the Torrington article. I appreciate it, but something looks "off" about it, the placement of it looks weird. I left it alone, but could you see if you can do anything about it? Thanks. Wikidan829 03:36, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Rubbing against the edit links, I think the problem is. I'm not very good at formatting this stuff yet, I've only made minor changes like fix grammatical errors, otherwise I would try to adjust it myself. Wikidan829 03:36, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah you're probably right. I'll see if we can get some help on that. Thanks. Wikidan829 03:48, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

I moved the table to after the first paragraph to get it "around" the town box at the top. Still bumps the edits but it's not in the middle of the screen. Wikidan829 03:55, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Re: School deletion discussion list

Thanks for your message, I overlooked that instruction. I'll be sure to add them to the top if I come across any school-related AfDs in the future. Cheers! --Nick—/Contribs 05:18, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

"Connecticut Metro-North Rail Commuter Council"

Please stop adding this link to station articles. It may be a valid link on the Metro-North Railroad article, but station articles should only have links related directly to the station. Thank you. --NE2 13:32, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

That's a reason to add it to the main Metro-North article. But if we add "whatever would be obviously useful to readers interested in the topic", the station articles will be full of links to Metro-North-related sites, town-related sites, sites about railroad stations, etc. --NE2 13:41, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
It's not "overwhelmingly obvious" to me that the link is useful. If I want links specifically about the station, I'll go to the article about the station. But if I want links related to the system as a whole, I'll go to Metro-North Railroad and look. If I want links about the neighborhood or town around the station, I'll go to the article about that. --NE2 13:58, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
It seems like would be a reasonable link for Noroton Heights (Metro-North station). That URL has not changed since June 2004: --NE2 14:15, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
I just used the search at the bottom of their main page. --NE2 14:23, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
Well, if there aren't any useful pages like that, for example with Greenwich, then we shouldn't have a link. If there is something specific in there that you think should be in the article, add it and cite the page as a reference, like this:
According to Jim Cameron, chairman of the Connecticut Rail Commuter Council, the four stations in Greenwich are among the worst on the New Haven Line.
--NE2 14:33, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

  1. Connecticut Rail Commuter Council, Minutes of August 23, 2006 Meeting

It's better to give the information directly than to link to a site that might have more information. Again, this would be like putting a link to the main Metro-North site on all of these station articles, because there might be information there that's not on the station page. --NE2 14:47, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

The external links are not part of the article; they are additional resources that should be included only under certain criteria. Please read Misplaced Pages:External links. --NE2 14:57, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

"Topix"

You should alse read Misplaced Pages:External links in relation to this; the site seems to be a mix between a blog and a search engine results page. --NE2 15:03, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

I see that a number of other pages have similar links: I still don't think it's a good link, but I won't revert you on that. --NE2 15:23, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Trainweb.org

Welcome to Misplaced Pages. We invite everyone to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia. However, the external links you added to the page Danbury (Metro-North station) do not comply with our guidelines for external links. Misplaced Pages is not a mere directory of links; nor should it be used for advertising or promotion. Since Misplaced Pages uses nofollow tags, external links do not alter search engine rankings. If you feel the link should be added to the article, then please discuss it on the article's talk page before reinserting it. Please take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you. A link to the edit I have reverted can be found here: link. If you believe this edit should not have been reverted, please contact me. Dirk Beetstra 20:49, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

I want to explain this a bit further, since you were already adding these links earlier as well and I see there is a discussion on this subject above. These links are not symmetrically and directly linked to the subject, there is only a direct link, no symmetry. As an example, a link on a page about a specific type of car should lead to a link on the manufacturers page about that specific type of car; a link to the manufacturers homepage is not symmetrically linked to the car, only directly. Also, the initial part of WP:EL states, that only information that cannot be incorporated into the wikipedia should be linked, and the page you linked to does not contain information that can not be included (actually, it does only provide some information about the council).
Moreover, the way you were adding these links is, under the wikipedia definition, spamming. It then does not matter whether or not the links are appropriate. Hope this explains. --Dirk Beetstra 21:11, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
Please tell exactly what in WP:SPAM applies to the links I added. When you write "It then does not matter whether or not the links are appropriate" really tells me most of I need to know about your point of view. If you have any interest at all in our actual readers, how can you write that? Commuters are concerned about their individual stations and are likely to go to the Misplaced Pages articles about those individual stations. If they have an interest in their stations, they're quite likely to be interested in the Connecticut Commuter Council, and very likely for the SAME REASONS that they're interested in their stations: because the commuter council addresses concerns over stations as well as other aspects of service. In the REAL WORLD which doesn't quite match in this case a particular BUREAUCRATIC RULE constructed by WIKIPEDIA BUREAUCRATS overly concerned with rules, the links have a quality that the "External links" rulebook doesn't actually address: THEY ARE O-B-V-I-O-U-S-L-Y USEFUL TO ACTUAL HUMAN BEINGS WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE WRITING FOR. The individual station pages are not very large and it is hard to imagine that they ever will be. The individual station articles do not now have more than a few links and it is extremely difficult to believe that they ever will. Over-attentiveness to ridiculous rules on your part is hurting actual readers. Have you actually thought about that? Shouldn't that be your FIRST thought? "Misplaced Pages is not a mere directory of links" -- two or three external links on a page do not actually make a directory. Misplaced Pages "should not be used for advertising or promotion" -- what are you talking about? The Commuter Council was created by the same state Department of Transportation that has authority over the stations. The Commuter Council is meant to be of assistance to the commuters who use those very stations. Think about that. Those commuters should NOT have to hunt down the Metro-North Misplaced Pages page then look at its external links section, a much larger page with many more links than the individual stations. And where exactly would this "symmetrical" article be where the Connecticut Commuter Council would fit in perfectly? The Metro-North article or something else? Please review WP:IAR, an official Misplaced Pages policy that you have very directly violated. It happens to trump a mere guideline. The operating word there is "improve". If I seem angry that's because I'm very angry with you and the other editor: You have acted and explained yourself without any regard to how these articles have been "improved" for the real readers who they are meant to serve. Please explain yourself. Noroton 04:35, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
P.S. You should also consider this, from WP:POL: "Guidelines are not set in stone and should be treated with common sense and the occasional exception". Noroton 04:45, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Further, the Connecticut Commuter Council addresses concerns at individual stations in its meetings, as noted in the minutes of those meetings posted on the web site I linked to. At various times, unpredictably, the minutes of the meetings will address concerns at individual stations. Therefore the links are extremely useful to readers of individual station articles who, every now and then, will want to see whether the commuter council's meetings addressed something of interest to that particular station.
Why haven't you shown in your message any interest or concern with how readers actually use our articles? There is no other justifiable purpose in editing Misplaced Pages than that. None. It needs to be your first priority. Whatever rules you use need to be consistent with that first priority. Or those rules need to be junked or ignored as per WP:IAR. Noroton 04:55, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
I can see you are angry, I will answer, but may sound cynical or retorical every now and then, my apologies for that. Please understand that the links were now removed under the guideline WP:SPAM - "... wide-scale external link spamming, ... ", and later in the same guideline "Adding external links to an article or user page for the purpose of promoting a website or a product is not allowed, and is considered to be spam. Although the specific links may be allowed under some circumstances, repeatedly adding links will in most cases result in all of them being removed.". Also, the way you were adding makes could make me think that you are involved in the Council, which would be a conflict of interest, but since I do not have proof either way, I can only think that.
Just inbetween, your link addition was already contested, it might have been better to discuss the individual additions on either a wikiproject page, on WT:EL, or on the individual pages (taking into account you can always ask for an RfC), or considering other alternatives.
Now considering the specific link. You are linking to the homepage of the Connecticut Rail Commuter Council. Nowhere on the external page that you linked on Danbury Metro North station does it show the word "Danbury", hence, the link is not symmetrical (the link is not on-topic), because the page does not tell about this specific wikipedia page. There may be a deeper page under that homepage that tells about the Danbury station (how it was build, when it was build, how one can access it, if it has a toilet, if it has disabled access, whatever), but that is not the page you linked. And even then, the specific page should not tell about all the stations, but about only this one (still the symmetry rule), and as an external link it would still not be appropriate, because the information can be incorporated into the wikipedia (see the intro of WP:EL). Or you could add content to the page which you retrieve from that page and use that specific sub-page as a reference. Just as a warning, please note that we may define mass-addition of non-specific sentences like "This station is represented by the Connecticut Rail Commuter Council<ref>http://www.trainweb.org/ct/ Connecticut Rail Commuter Council website</ref>" as spam/canvassing as well; the linkfeed does not see where in the document a link is added; we only see if a link is added quite often, or that one user is adding a link quite often.
Considering WP:IAR, that does apply to me as well; I do believe that the page gets better when this link is not there as the link (to this specific page on the site) does not tell anything about the stations (and the wikipedia page would comply better with the policies). The page would become better when adding content, and adding links that tunnel people away from the wikipedia does, IMHO, not make the encyclopedia better.
I know policies are not set in stone, but that does not mean that we should ignore them at all, and I am sorry, but in adding this link I believe you ignored three policies and guidelines, which is more than 'an occasional exception'.
Let me try and provide a solution (though I have not reviewed if it is really possible). I would suggest to write an article about the Connecticut Railway Commuter Council (here is the caveat; I hope the page would pass wikipedias notability rules). The external link would be directly and symmetrically linked to that page, and you would only add it once. The addition of a sentence linking to the Council-page might be considered canvassing when performed on a set of articles, but you could do that in a consideration of really adding more content to the article. Hope this helps. --Dirk Beetstra 10:46, 11 March 2007 (UTC)