User talk:Ched/Archive 20: Difference between revisions

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			; All history of my talk page from 2008 through 2011 are located on this page. This IS an archive though, so please direct any CURRENT thoughts to my CURRENT TALK PAGE ]. Thank you.

			;: Talk archives from July 2011 through January 5, 2012
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	; ALL discussions can be found in the archives. If you wish to continue a previous conversation, please start a new section, and let me know which conversation it is. Thank you.

	== Award ==		== Award ==
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	* WOW .. holy bazoinkers Batman. I don't know if I have ''EVER'' seen you give such a thing Bugs. Thank you ... I am totally at a loss for words here. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 12:12, 5 July 2011 (UTC)		* WOW .. holy bazoinkers Batman. I don't know if I have ''EVER'' seen you give such a thing Bugs. Thank you ... I am totally at a loss for words here. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 12:12, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

	== Bad words ==

	Hey Ched, hope you are doing well. I noticed your comments on the Lewinsky word AfD--where I am not commenting, just because--and felt like responding for some reason.

	I definitely see your point, and think that it's quite valid to see it as odd or just plain wrong for someone to want to delete the Lewinsky article and keep the Santorum one. But I don't think that position, or its inverse, are inherently inconsistent or hypocritical. One could argue that only the Lewinsky article should be kept, because it seems to be the case that this word has actually entered the general parlance to some degree (or at least had at one time) whereas this is not really the case with the term Santorum--i.e. one is a linguistically notable neologism and one is not. On the other hand, one could argue that the Lewinsky word has had no meaningful impact on politics or culture, where as the thing with Santorum has had a direct impact on a presidential campaign--this is undeniably true--and been a prime example of the "Google Bomb" phenomenon ''and'' a minor touchstone in the debate over gay rights (which I also think is true).

	Of course, one can also say that both of these are absolute crap and should be nuked, or even that both should be kept. People have gotten very heated about these two articles for understandable reasons, but I think the issues are a bit more grey and open to debate than some are suggesting. Personally I haven't read through all of the arguments and am not entirely sure where I stand on either of them (not that anyone cares).

	Like I said I just felt like saying this, I guess because you've always seemed like a very reasonable sort of fellow and probably wouldn't mind if someone popped in to say "hey Ched, I think you are kinda wrong about that!" for no particular reason. Also it's probably a good idea to stagger awards and dissenters from your viewpoints throughout your talk page, so I'm totally helping in that regard. Anyhow, no big deal, happy editing and all that. --] <small>\| ] \| ]</small> 22:38, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

	:WOW, I am truly flattered Bigtimepeace. I've been an admirer of yours for quite some time, and look forward to replying to this. Unfortunately at this immediate moment, I must run out the door, so this is simply a placeholder. Be back soon. Cheers. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 23:37, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

	: Last thought/post for tonight. Again, I am truly honored to be approached by such an established Wikipedian. To be honest, my early time here was spent trying to just fly under the radar. Edit articles, try to not be obnoxious, and avoid any controversy whatsoever. When I grew disgruntled, I took a break rather than speak my mind. I watched for a year, read the posts, and never spoke my mind. I decided that I needed to voice my thoughts here. I had avoided ''ANY'' political discussions in the past. The "santorum" issue caught my attention because I live in PA., and am familiar with the man and his views. (not that I share them). I had/have been concerned about our BLP policies. I view the entire ball of wax as a fork from what we are attempting to do here. I realize and understand that there are often some very subconscious thoughts that move people to voice the views they do. (myself included). I do my very best to disassociate myself from my personal feelings, and be objective. To be honest, I'd rather see a "Lewinsky" article, than a "santorum" one. But I know that it's an inconsistent view.

	: Yes, I agree and I believe you are 100% correct that cases can be made on both sides of the "santorum vs. lewinsky" debate. Rather than make a case for one or the other, I'd offer that neither one are really the type of things that an "encyclopedic" venture should be putting forth. Yes, there are strong feelings and emotions on all sides here; but I say leave that to the blogs and opinion pieces. I don't condem those who feel strongly one way or the other. I don't ever mean to patronize or deride those who don't share my views. I admire the entire "consensus" concept that we have in place.

	:Views: ... In the circle of people that I am in contact with, I will say this. It is often viewed that Misplaced Pages is considered a "liberal" slant to political articles. My thoughts are that perhaps the bulk of the editors here are mid-20's, fresh out of school, and have been exposed to an environment that encourages a liberal mindset. Not a bad thing. The dynamics of it all is in a constant state of flux. Sometimes it's a 60/40 thing, and sometimes it's a 50/50 thing. Where I live there is an old saying: "If you're not a liberal when you're young - you have no heart. ..., If you're not a conservative when you're old - you have no brain" I can't say that I subscribe to that in it's entirety, but I also see some insight to it.

	: I realize that I have rambled on and on here, and I apologize for that. You offered me the chance to discuss these issues, and perhaps I took advantage of that. Regardless, I do so appreciate you offering me the opportunity to voice my thoughts. Cheers and best my friend. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 04:32, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
	::Thanks for responding and thanks for the kind words--you flatter me sir! I basically agree with everything you say so we're not really differing on this.

	::I've often thought it would be interesting to do a study--and maybe someone has--about political bias in Misplaced Pages articles and among contributors. Having worked in a number of political areas of the project, my guess would be that there is a strong liberal bias when it comes to "cultural" type issues in particular. That is, someone like Santorum will not go over well among most contributors here due to his social conservatism. Misplaced Pages is pretty queer friendly--which is quite admirable, I wish we were more female friendly--and I think in general the kind of people who contribute here are less likely to take a strong stance on issues of personal behavior from a moral or religious perspective than the population at large. So that would be a sort of "liberal" bias.

	::I would also assume that more contributors than not are strong civil libertarians, which has come to be seen as a liberal or left-wing position (though it really need not be). So on issues relating to state secrets, individual liberties, perhaps even war and peace, Misplaced Pages might well have what could be considered a left-wing bias (though circa 1940 these sort of views were not inconsistent with a aspects of conservatism).

	::Perhaps overall en.wikipedia is as much libertarian as anything, which is consistent with both of the above points. That's not just because of our somewhat Randian founder, but also because I think these "free culture" type projects attract a lot of libertarian types. Because of this, Misplaced Pages is arguably more conservative in the economic realm. For example, I doubt there is a particularly strong pro-union sentiment among editors here, indeed likely the opposite (for a long time now I've had in my sandbox a partially completed article--which I will finish one day!--about one of the most important strikes in the U.S. in many years, the ] strike of late 2008. It was an enormous news story at the time and an important labor action, yet no one bothered to create an article about it so far as I know.) So on matters economic I think more editors here are likely to be partial to "]" style economists, rather than Karl Marx or even Paul Krugman. I could be wrong about that.

	::Overall I'd say your 60-40 suggested breakdown (liberal vs. conservative) is maybe about right for the project. If so that would actually be better than it is in academia, which for a number of reasons really is more left-oriented in its thinking (conservatives who complain about that are right, though it's partially because a lot of smart conservatives choose not to enter academe).

	::Finally I'm glad you mentioned that saying from your parts. I've always heard that attributed to Churchill--substituting socialist for liberal and referencing ones 20s and ones 50s--but it never sounded like something Churchill would have said. I hunted around and found blog post which suggested that the original quote came from ] and then was popularized by Clemenceau, though interestingly even earlier John Adams said something similar (albeit more elitist--he was not much of a fan of the common fellow, or lady!). It's definitely been through a number of iterations and entered the realm of folk wisdom at this point.

	::Anyhow, thanks again for your reply, have a good one! --] <small>\| ] \| ]</small> 18:52, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

	::: OHHH .. don't go away .. I am fascinated by this conversation. Unfortunately I'm under a huge time crunch at the moment. (damn real life keeps getting in the way of my Misplaced Pages time .. lol). I have to admit, that I'll need to research a few of your references, as they actually went over my head. But I'll catch up ... lol. ttys. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 21:07, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
	::::No rush at all on a reply Ched, just drop me a note pointing me back here if you are so inclined. :-) --] <small>\| ] \| ]</small> 02:41, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

	== First they came... ==

	There's been some recent discussion to the effect that citing '']'' in any way which could refer to the actions of editors may be regarded as comparing them to Nazis, and hence a personal attack. I'm not sure that I entirely endorse that view myself, but I noticed that you've used it a few times and so you might want to be aware of how it's perceived by others.   <b>]  ]  </b> 23:03, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
	* Indeed. Amazing thought experiment, isn't it? But thank you for your note, it is actually appreciated Will. Cheers and best. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 23:35, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
	:* BTW, if this in regards the shameful BarkingMoon incident, then I am most certainly willing to discuss it further. The entire episode has left a very foul taste in my mouth, and I'm not ashamed to state my views on it. Cheers again. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 23:40, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
	:::*I posted ], related, --] (]) 15:34, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
	::*No, it's unrelated. I was searching for use of the term and your name kept popping up. If you'd like to discuss BarkingMoon I'd rather do it off-line.   <b>]  ]  </b> 03:54, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

	:::* done .. email sent to you. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 04:46, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

	:Absolutely-unfucking-believable! ] ] 23:47, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
	:: glad I'm not the only one that thought that. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 04:36, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

	==Impersonator alert!==
	*Hi Ched, I wish to make complain about a newly registered user {{User\|Dave1184}}, who is currently going around to impersonate as me vandalising/irritating others and/or reverting some of my edits. Can you help? --<small>] <sup><span style="font-family:Italic;color:black">]</span></sup></small> 07:18, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
	:*Please disregard that last message, Gogo Dodo just blocked him. --<small>] <sup><span style="font-family:Italic;color:black">]</span></sup></small> 07:47, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

	:I have asked for the associated IP {{userlinks\|203.223.238.224}} to be blocked also. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 09:36, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

	* Hey Dave. Well, if you have someone going to the trouble to impersonate you, then you must be doing something right. :). Glad it's been taken care of. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 10:51, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

	:*Well, that's not the first time that me or Bugs had been impersonated and it most certainly won't be the last. Archbishop ] once said: "if you carry out a policy or scheme that dehumanises others, in that process you become dehumanised as well." So true. So... knowing that these impersonator thinks that they got a kick out of it but no... they've actually lost it without them knowing of it. Peace, out. --<small>] <sup><span style="font-family:Italic;color:black">]</span></sup></small> 11:21, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

	::*I defer to the Philosophy of Yogi: "If you can't imitate him, don't copy him." ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 12:22, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
	:::: And he was smarter than your average bear. :) — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 21:10, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

	== bits4crats ==

	Hey Ched,
	I just noticed your bits4crats subpage, and I have to say I agree with a lot of what you're saying there. I also just wanted to point out RFC in response to your point about inactive 'crat accounts. I'm sure you saw already, but just in case you hadn't :) Regards, <font color="green">]</font><sup><font color="red">]</font></sup><sub><font color="black">]</font></sub> 22:58, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
	: Do you know Pedro too then? .. or just from my contribs? ... Anyway, thank you for the link. It seems the discussion is in several different places. I've commented in some, but I can easily imagine that I'm missing a few too though. Early results seem to be favoring them gaining that ability. I hope it just turns out to be a technical thing, but I sure can see the potential there for some real problems if it would get used wrong. Anyway, thanks for hooking me up there MacMed. Cheers and best. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 00:37, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

	==Notable topic?==

	*Hi Ched, could I ask you to take a look at ]? The creator ({{User\|Sumaiya snigdha}}) of this article kept removing the maintenance template despite my warnings to her/him, without her/him first addressing the notability of the article, as even the Bangladeshi language version has the same "notability?", "verifiability?" tag added to it. Would a short block be appropriate here for her/him? Thoughts? --<small>] <sup><span style="font-family:Italic;color:black">]</span></sup></small> 00:35, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

	::I'll take a look shortly Dave. <s>Why are there so many RevDel items in the article history? Did something get out of hand?</s> Anywho .. brb. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 00:43, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

	:::* ''<small>(struck ... saw they were copy-vio issues)</small>''

	:: OK, I did look, and I left a note on their talk page. Since they haven't edited in several days, and they are a ''very'' new editor, I'm not going to block at this time. That would simply be punitive, and I don't see a need right now since they aren't currently editing. Looking at the article .. I'd say 1) There really only needs to be one expansion tag for the article, not one in every section. 2) actually? .. Ya might want to put the whole thing up for AfD (or PROD it). I'm not really seeing anything there that's establishing any WP:N. Just IMHO. Cheers Dave. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 01:40, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

	:::*Damn, look at my clumsy attempt to prod it. Help? --<small>] <sup><span style="font-family:Italic;color:black">]</span></sup></small> 02:17, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

	::::* Meh ... looks ok to me. Ping me next Sunday and I'll delete. You got the notability part mentioned, I'd say that should suffice. If I was more knowledgeable on the individual ] I might even have <s>put a CSD on it</s>, but this at least gives it a chance. If they remove the PROD, we'll try AfD. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 02:34, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
	::::::<small> ''never mind ... schools are exempt from A7'' </small> — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 02:41, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

	{{od}}
	*On another note, can you grant me autoreviewer rights? I'm in the middle of something and I need it to assist me, disregard if you can't, thanks in advance. {{=)\|grin}} --<small>] <sup><span style="font-family:Italic;color:black">]</span></sup></small> 02:46, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

	:Do you mean "autopatrolled"? Looks like you already have the reviewer right. If so, then sure ... np. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 02:51, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
	:{{done}} for the autopatrolled. Seems some wording's been changed over that PC/FR/Recent Changes trial. Hadn't read through all that for a while. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 02:57, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

	::*Yup, that got me mightily confused for a split second there as well. Oh well... thanks! --<small>] <sup><span style="font-family:Italic;color:black">]</span></sup></small> 03:27, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

	{{od}}
	*Ched, Seeing that she continues to ignore our invitations to discuss this despite our many attempts, wouldn't you agree that a BLOCK is needed right now to carry our message across? Anyway, I was told that ] are rarely capable of any constructive engagement, so true. --<small>] <sup><span style="font-family:Italic;color:black">]</span></sup></small> 15:21, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

	:* Sorry Dave, I'm too tired to look at this objectively ... I'll check it out in the morning.

	::*Ched, we really need your help to stop the POV-pushers on ] and on ]. Could you please either block them or protect the respective article pages until more concrete solutions can be undertaken to resolve the issues. Sorry to trouble you again, best. --<small>] <sup><span style="font-family:Italic;color:black">]</span></sup></small> 12:06, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

	::::I took a look, and it looks like Ged UK is on top of the Singapore article, and TerriersFan has dealt with the other one. Let me know if there's any more I can help with though. Sorry I wasn't on enough to take care of it for you. Cheers. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 23:44, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

	== Comment you made ==

	In , you said "WMF has even posted their desire to move away from the fair use stuff". I took a look around foundation-l and couldn't find anything regarding this. Where did you see this posted? --] (]) 15:42, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

	:I'll dig out the difs tomorrow. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 03:03, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

	== Question ==

	Any idea what's up with the user OrangeMarlin? Any news? ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 03:34, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

	: I haven't heard anything. I might go ask Mastcell later today, he seems to be pretty close to the guy. I'll let you know as soon as I hear anything Bugs. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 11:34, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

	::I've posed the question to him. I wouldn't be surprised if OrangeMarlin is undergoing a recuperative process, and that wikipedia is way down his list of priorities. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 01:29, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

	:::Yes .. that's the same impression I got. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 05:24, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

	::::He said he's heard nothing so far. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 05:39, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

	::::: Yea, and likely be at least a week before he gets home if things go well. (which I pray they do). — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 12:53, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

	== Family ==

	You know, passed away almost 9 years ago, but I guess its still a touchy subject. I for one will never again. Peace. ] (]) 02:55, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

	:Ummm ... ok. I a little lost here. There's obviously something here that I'm not aware of. I'm not sure what to say or do here. Can you clarify (here or email), and let me know what to say or do? — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 05:23, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

	{{userlinks\|12.191.118.28}}

	::This is probably a sock (or pretending to be) of the guy who made some comment to Off2riorob about "kissing" his mother, or some such, several days ago. Rob took great offense to that. I would have also. The pic of Lawanda Page is probably just further taunting. Note that the guy is pretending to be a sock of some other user also. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 14:05, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
	:::Now Bugs, this has nothing to do with socks or taunting. Lawanda Page was a terrific actress and a perfect , I have no idea why ] gets all riled up when she is mentioned. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 21:58, 13 July 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
	::::Keep in mind that the only reason you and your socks aren't already blocked is that Ched is a patient sort. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 22:08, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

	== BarkingMoon ==

	], --] (]) 12:25, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
	:Found ] who says makes me sick, --] (]) 18:58, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
	::Thanks for clear words in a clean thread, that is a bit better than the mess we had so far. Back to content, as said before, smile, --] (]) 20:23, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

	== Re: Hey you ==

	Hey life is great and I took a break a while back but now I'm back to do some work. How are you doing. ] <sup>]</sup> 00:33, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

	:Always good to get a break to recharge those batteries. I had a rather long one myself. Life is fantastic here, although a bit hectic at times. Hope after my daughter's wedding next weekend I can get a bit more of my WP time back. Got a few articles in mind that really need attention ... lol. Always good to see buddy. All my best. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 13:23, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
	==GLAM-Wiki Baltimore meetup==
	<div style="border-style:solid; border-color:#8BAFD7; background-color:AliceBlue; border-width:1px; text-align:left; padding:8px;" class="plainlinks">]
	You are invited to the first Misplaced Pages ''']''' on Saturday, July 23, 10:00am-12:30pm at the ]. Come meet Wikimedians, learn about GLAM-Wiki partnerships, get involved, and discuss future wiki outreach and activities in the Baltimore area!

	There also is a Misplaced Pages & Cultural Heritage at the Young Preservationist ''']''' on Friday, July 22, 6:30pm at the Midtown Yacht Club, an unpretentious neighborhood pub.

	----
	<small>Note: <small>You can remove your name from the Baltimore meetup invite list ]. -- Message delivered by ], on behalf of ]</small></small>
	</div>

	== Just a comment ==

	When you changed the usergroups for {{user\|PumpkinSky}}, you added a couple that he really doesn't need: <code>'autopatrolled'</code> should be removed, as he has not created enough articles to demonstrate that he doesn't need anybody patrolling his articles; and <code>'filemover'</code> is usually reserved for users who are knowledgeable about ] and the various file policies. I hope you don't think I'm badgering either you or PumpkinSky, and I fully understand that these user privileges are no big deal. However, he has only been here a week or two, so his use/knowledge of these tools may not be particularly great yet. Cheers! ] (]) 01:52, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

	:Good morning there RE. Never a problem (badger) to ask about my edits and actions, I encourage that from all editors. Ummm .. yea, they are fairly new, but "meh" .. I'm a pretty ] for things here. I did exchange and email or two with him/her, and did look over ], and was actually quite impressed with their ability to take advice, and how quickly they are learning. (already doing references, which often takes a while for some users). I will certainly keep an eye on their work (more for the "rollback" than the NPP stuff). He/she also seems to be doing the prerequisite reading on policy and guideline stuff. The autopatrolled seemed appropriate if they want to do NPP, as it seems rather redundant to patrol a patroller. :). Please feel free to drop a note if you spot anything out of line. The NFCC is a good point, and I'll drop that link to them. Also, if there's any of these tools you feel could help you out, let me know and I'll gladly hook you up too. Cheers and best. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 14:55, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

	::I met the user on ] where s/he raised a good question, observed well and probably understood my answer better than a long-time user. (I have no time to deal with it right now.) --] (]) 15:32, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

	== The ] Newsletter ==

	The first ever ''']''' has been published. Please read on to find out what we're up to and how to help out! There are many opportunities for getting more involved. ]·] 21:18, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

	:: Hey Dominic, I'll take a look early next week. My daughter's wedding is Sat. .. and just don't have the time through this coming weekend. Cheers. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 22:00, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

	{{Misplaced Pages:GLAM/NARA/Newsletter/July/1}}

	:: Hey Dominic, I'll take a look early next week. My daughter's wedding is Sat. .. and just don't have the time through this coming weekend. Cheers. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 21:58, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

	==DC Meetup, July 29==

	{\|style="{{divstylesiaaa}}{{border-radius\|8px}}"
	\|-
	!colspan=2 style="font-size:150%;"\|] - Who should come? ''You should.'' Really.
	\|-
	\|]
	\|'''DC MEETUP 21''' is July 29! This meet up will involve Wikipedians from the area as well as Wiki-loving ] professionals. See you Friday! ] (]) 16:32, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
	\|}

	== Wrong person? ==

	Hi Ched, I saw ] and thought you might like to know that you appear to have confused him with someone else. Cheers, ] (]) 19:40, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
	: Hey there Jenks ... yea ... I think I must of hit the enter key on the wrong "Jimbo" on that. I thought I remembered that Jimbo lived somewhere near Atlanta at one point, and wondered if he (Jimbo Wales), saw or heard about that 19 inning game and controversial call at the end. Guess I was in too much of a hurry to notice ''which'' Jimbo page I was on .. lol. Oh well, kinda stale by now, so I guess there's not much to do at this point. Guess I'll stop by and apologize to "Jimbo online". Thanks for the note. Cheers and Best Jenks. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 19:53, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
	::No worries :) Yeah, those bloody search boxes can change on you just as you click. Best to you too, ] (]) 19:56, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

	== DC-area Meetup, Saturday, August 6 ==
	{\|style="{{divstylesiaaa}}{{border-radius\|8px}}"
	\|-
	!colspan=2 style="font-size:150%;"\|] - Who should come? ''You should.'' Really.
	\|-
	\|]
	\|On Saturday, August 6, the '''National Archives''' is hosting a ] in College Park, Maryland. Meet staff and fellow Wikipedians, go behind the scenes at the National Archives, help digitize documents, and edit together! ]·] 21:19, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
	\|}

	== Crat bar ==		== Crat bar ==
Line 242:		Line 21:
	I thought I'd ask if you would like to comment on ] about the crat threshold as you seemed interested in the related dicussions a short while ago. Best regards. - ''''']''''' (]•]•<span class="plainlinks"></span>) 20:38, 6 August 2011 (UTC)		I thought I'd ask if you would like to comment on ] about the crat threshold as you seemed interested in the related dicussions a short while ago. Best regards. - ''''']''''' (]•]•<span class="plainlinks"></span>) 20:38, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

	:commented there. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 21:03, 6 August 2011 (UTC)		:commented there. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 21:03, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
	::Hi Ched. We've moved our discussion regarding the bureaucrat threshold to ] and I thought you might like to comment on it. Thanks. - ''''']''''' (]•]•<span class="plainlinks"></span>) 07:27, 11 August 2011 (UTC)		::Hi Ched. We've moved our discussion regarding the bureaucrat threshold to ] and I thought you might like to comment on it. Thanks. - ''''']''''' (]•]•<span class="plainlinks"></span>) 07:27, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

	::: Hi Hydro, Looks good at first glance. I'll check it out in more detail this evening. Cheers. Ched (east coast USA) — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 15:00, 11 August 2011 (UTC)		::: Hi Hydro, Looks good at first glance. I'll check it out in more detail this evening. Cheers. Ched (east coast USA) — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 15:00, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
	The RfC has gone live ]. - ''''']''''' (]•]•<span class="plainlinks"></span>) 02:20, 22 August 2011 (UTC)		The RfC has gone live ]. - ''''']''''' (]•]•<span class="plainlinks"></span>) 02:20, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Line 252:		Line 31:
	Hi. I didn't perceive any digs directed towards me. That said, the way you phrased your comment implied that bureaucrats would misuse the -sysop bit as a quasi-political tool. As that doesn't advance discussion of why or how emergency desysops should take place, I felt obliged to call you out on that. ]<sup>(] - ])</sup> 07:01, 8 August 2011 (UTC)		Hi. I didn't perceive any digs directed towards me. That said, the way you phrased your comment implied that bureaucrats would misuse the -sysop bit as a quasi-political tool. As that doesn't advance discussion of why or how emergency desysops should take place, I felt obliged to call you out on that. ]<sup>(] - ])</sup> 07:01, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

	: AHHH .. OK. And I didn't mean a dig at the 'crats' either. My thinking is this. The crats are "local", and edit or are active here on EN, so they are going to be familiar with many of the Admins. I think that familiarity leads people (even if unconsciously) to develop either a like or dislike (or perhaps mistrust is a better word) of some admins. I think that subconscious "knowing" of an admin. could all to easily play a role in the decision making process of whether or not an admin's actions were causing an "emergency". I just haven't ''seen'' many (perhaps one very questionable situation a few months back which arbcom handled involving some questionable mental stability issues) "emergencies" here on WP. I'll try to explain there as well. Thanks for letting me know that what I posted could be taken that way. It's late here, and perhaps I'm not expressing myself well at the moment due to fatigue. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 07:13, 8 August 2011 (UTC)		: AHHH .. OK. And I didn't mean a dig at the 'crats' either. My thinking is this. The crats are "local", and edit or are active here on EN, so they are going to be familiar with many of the Admins. I think that familiarity leads people (even if unconsciously) to develop either a like or dislike (or perhaps mistrust is a better word) of some admins. I think that subconscious "knowing" of an admin. could all to easily play a role in the decision making process of whether or not an admin's actions were causing an "emergency". I just haven't ''seen'' many (perhaps one very questionable situation a few months back which arbcom handled involving some questionable mental stability issues) "emergencies" here on WP. I'll try to explain there as well. Thanks for letting me know that what I posted could be taken that way. It's late here, and perhaps I'm not expressing myself well at the moment due to fatigue. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 07:13, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

	== Closing ==		== Closing ==

	Re: . Thank you. ] <span style="font-weight:bold;">·</span> (]) 08:57, 8 August 2011 (UTC)		Re: . Thank you. ] <span style="font-weight:bold;">·</span> (]) 08:57, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

	:No problem. Seemed to be stuck in one of those dreaded programming loops. :) — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 09:05, 8 August 2011 (UTC)		:No problem. Seemed to be stuck in one of those dreaded programming loops. :) — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 09:05, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
	::To say the least. Just a pity it wasn't closed sooner, tis one of the reasons I avoid ANI, it's easily one of the most toxic areas of the encyclopedia, everything seems worse there and if blocks aren't handed out within the first hour or so, threads almost always degenerate. I'm glad someone stepped up and shut it down :) ] <span style="font-weight:bold;">·</span> (]) 09:28, 8 August 2011 (UTC)		::To say the least. Just a pity it wasn't closed sooner, tis one of the reasons I avoid ANI, it's easily one of the most toxic areas of the encyclopedia, everything seems worse there and if blocks aren't handed out within the first hour or so, threads almost always degenerate. I'm glad someone stepped up and shut it down :) ] <span style="font-weight:bold;">·</span> (]) 09:28, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

	== ANI closure ==		== ANI closure ==
Line 269:		Line 48:
	You may wish to include some of the tail subtopics in your closed record.		You may wish to include some of the tail subtopics in your closed record.

	Sincerely, <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">].]</span></small> 08:59, 8 August 2011 (UTC)		Sincerely, <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">].]</span></small> 08:59, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

	:Hi HW, it seemed that userbox and ''its'' braces were messing with my placement of "discussion close" ending. Best of luck in other venues with this, but perhaps it would be easier and best for all involved to just ]. Not saying you have to, just a suggestion is all. Cheers. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 09:08, 8 August 2011 (UTC)		:Hi HW, it seemed that userbox and ''its'' braces were messing with my placement of "discussion close" ending. Best of luck in other venues with this, but perhaps it would be easier and best for all involved to just ]. Not saying you have to, just a suggestion is all. Cheers. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 09:08, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

	::I have no plans to continue such exchanges, but as you wrote while you closed, Worm plans to write an RfC. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">].]</span></small> 09:16, 8 August 2011 (UTC)		::I have no plans to continue such exchanges, but as you wrote while you closed, Worm plans to write an RfC. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">].]</span></small> 09:16, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

	==DYK for Nels Running==		==DYK for Nels Running==
Line 301:		Line 80:
	Hey Ched--did you email me a URL? I want to make sure it's actually from you before I click on it. Thanks, ] (]) 14:04, 9 September 2011 (UTC)		Hey Ched--did you email me a URL? I want to make sure it's actually from you before I click on it. Thanks, ] (]) 14:04, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

	:NO ... DO NOT CLICK THAT LINK. I got several emails this morning from folks and made the mistake of clicking on one of the links .. must have spammed my contact list. Very sorry folks ... running scans now. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 14:12, 9 September 2011 (UTC)		:NO ... DO NOT CLICK THAT LINK. I got several emails this morning from folks and made the mistake of clicking on one of the links .. must have spammed my contact list. Very sorry folks ... running scans now. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 14:12, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
	::Thanks. Good luck cleaning up that mess...and BTW, that was a marvelous collection of goat porn! ] (]) 14:53, 9 September 2011 (UTC)		::Thanks. Good luck cleaning up that mess...and BTW, that was a marvelous collection of goat porn! ] (]) 14:53, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

	:::Can't say I know much about the goats, ... but I think I figured out where it started. Was a Facebook friend rather than a WP one .. sigh .. oh well. Thanks for the info. Cheers. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 15:10, 9 September 2011 (UTC)		:::Can't say I know much about the goats, ... but I think I figured out where it started. Was a Facebook friend rather than a WP one .. sigh .. oh well. Thanks for the info. Cheers. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 15:10, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

	::::Did someone say goat porn? By chance, I've just started an article on that subject and could use some references. Please forward to my P.O. Box, ASAP. ]<small>]</small> 15:17, 9 September 2011 (UTC)		::::Did someone say goat porn? By chance, I've just started an article on that subject and could use some references. Please forward to my P.O. Box, ASAP. ]<small>]</small> 15:17, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
	:Ched, get active on wiki again like before. We need more than goat porn.] ] 20:50, 9 September 2011 (UTC)		:Ched, get active on wiki again like before. We need more than goat porn.] ] 20:50, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

	::Should be back on a more regular basis the middle of next week. Wanna get some work into Noel's article. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 21:12, 9 September 2011 (UTC)		::Should be back on a more regular basis the middle of next week. Wanna get some work into Noel's article. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 21:12, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
	:::Glad to hear you're just on a break/busy. I almost forgot about Noel, but I'll do what I can to help. ] ] 21:23, 9 September 2011 (UTC)		:::Glad to hear you're just on a break/busy. I almost forgot about Noel, but I'll do what I can to help. ] ] 21:23, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
	==You're invited! Wikimedia DC Annual Membership Meeting==		==You're invited! Wikimedia DC Annual Membership Meeting==
	{\|style="~~{{divstylesiaaa}}{{~~border-radius\|8px}}"		{\|style="background:#d5dceb; border:1px solid #6881b9; margin:0.5em; padding:0.5em;border-radius: 8px;"
	\|-		\|-
	!colspan=2 style="font-size:150%;"\|]		!colspan=2 style="font-size:150%;"\|]
Line 364:		Line 143:

	== DC-area Meetup, Saturday, October 8 ==		== DC-area Meetup, Saturday, October 8 ==
	{\|style="~~{{divstylesiaaa}}{{~~border-radius\|8px}}"		{\|style="background:#d5dceb; border:1px solid #6881b9; margin:0.5em; padding:0.5em;border-radius: 8px;"
	\|-		\|-
	!colspan=2 style="font-size:150%;"\|] - Who should come? ''You should.'' Really.		!colspan=2 style="font-size:150%;"\|] - Who should come? ''You should.'' Really.
Line 374:		Line 153:
	==Tfd: Facepalm==		==Tfd: Facepalm==
	*See ]		*See ]
	*{{Facepalm}}... Goodness, gracious, great balls of fire~! --<small>] <sup><span style="font-family:Italic;color:black">]</span></sup></small> 17:36, 3 October 2011 (UTC)		*{{Facepalm}}... Goodness, gracious, great balls of fire~! --<small>] <sup><span style="font-family:Italic;color:black">]</span></sup></small> 17:36, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
	==You're invited! Misplaced Pages Loves Libraries DC==		==You're invited! Misplaced Pages Loves Libraries DC==
	{\|style="~~{{divstylesiaaa}}{{~~border-radius\|8px}}"		{\|style="background:#d5dceb; border:1px solid #6881b9; margin:0.5em; padding:0.5em;border-radius: 8px;"
	\|-		\|-
	!colspan=2 style="font-size:150%;"\|]		!colspan=2 style="font-size:150%;"\|]
Line 393:		Line 172:
	----		----
	<small>Note: <small>You can remove your name from the DC meetup invite list ]. -- Message delivered by ] (]) 18:38, 31 October 2011 (UTC), on behalf of ]</small></small>		<small>Note: <small>You can remove your name from the DC meetup invite list ]. -- Message delivered by ] (]) 18:38, 31 October 2011 (UTC), on behalf of ]</small></small>
			: Obviously I'm not gonna make any of this stuff this time around ..sorry, ... but hope you folks had a great time. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 22:14, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

			==]==

			You may be interested in this. ] (]) 11:06, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

			==Fine Art Edit-a-Thon & DC Meetup 26!==

			{\|style="background:#d5dceb; border:1px solid #6881b9; margin:0.5em; padding:0.5em;border-radius: 8px;"
			\|-
			!colspan=2 style="font-size:150%;"\|] - Who should come? ''You should.'' Really.
			\|-
			\|]
			\|'''FINE ART EDIT-A-THON & DC MEETUP 26''' is December 17! The Edit-a-Thon will cover fine art subjects from the ] and the meet up will involve Wikipedians from the area as well as Wiki-loving ] professionals. You don't have to attend both to attend one (but we hope you do!) Click the link above and sign up & spread the word! See you there! ] (]) 17:15, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
			\|}

			== RFA thankspam ==

			Thank you for your support at my recent successful RFA. Being now the new fellow in the fraternity of administrators, I will do my best to live up to the confidence shown in me by others, will move slowly and carefully when using the mop, will seek input from others before any action of which I might be unsure, and will try not to break anything beyond repair. Best, ''']''' '']'' 21:59, 4 December 2011 (UTC)


			==re: ]==
			Chad

			Your email to me is correct as the biography of Kimo Williamswas a cut and paste from my web site. However, I also wrote the biography. Should I cut and paste from my original word document?

			Kimo Williams <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 15:59, 14 December 2011 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

			:Good day to you sir. First, let me say it's an honor to meet you. I did receive your email, and I will follow up on this. I want to do a bit of research before I can say for sure how we should move forward here. As you may have noted, your edits were reverted on the article .. basically because it was a cut and paste from your website. Especially since that site stated the "all rights reserved" we can't just do a copy and paste since it would violate our ] policies. I want to check in with a few folks who are better versed in the area on how to proceed, but I will get back to you in the next couple days. If you happen to have any links to ''other'' websites .. such as perhaps any interviews you've done, or news reports that document any information it would be very helpful as well. I look forward to working and helping with this. Cheers and best. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 16:09, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
			==Occupy Marines==
			Hey Ched, thanks for the note. Yes the discussion is getting rather long on the AfD - have to feel for the poor closing admin... Youre writing skills look fine from where Im sitting. I agree the article isnt ideal in its current form. Maybe there's two solutions. If others agree, ] or similar could be created. An issue with this is that although its more notable, it is in a sense a less concrete topic than our current one. Maybe the best solution is to wait for a few weeks and then try to improve the existing article? I havent done so myself yet for similar reasons to your good self - there seems to be a lot of passion and energy from both sides right now, but it will almost certainly dissipate if we wait a while.

			Sorry to oppose what may seem like a workable compromise. Ive been a fairly substantial contributor to our main Occupy Movement article, and there is so much interesting stuff folk want to add that much of it is having to be rejected. Discussions are currently under way to split out sections into dedicated articles. OWS seems similarly cramped. So Im hoping no one will try to force a merge. As the excellent editor DreamFocus always says, a forced merge is often an excuse for deletionists to destroy what they dont like when they cant get a delete decision. ] (]) 17:14, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

			:sounds like a plan. I'll put on my watchlist, and if push comes to shove I'll restore and move to user space somewhere (in order to keep history). — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 19:33, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

			== BN ==

			Pfft; fun; that's how wars start eh? hee hee :-)

			'nings <small><span style="border:1px solid;background:#00008B">]]</span></small> 20:40, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
			:I feel like such an idiot .. lol. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 20:45, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

			== Well done ==

			{\| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
			\|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" \| ]
			\|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" \| '''The Random Diplomat Award'''
			\|-
			\|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" \| I hereby bestow upon you this Random Diplomat Award. ] was chosen to represent this high office by virtue of the facts that (a) her image is public domain, (b) she doesn't look mean, (c) she's facing right, and (d) she reproduces well in miniature.

			You, by contrast, were chosen with great precision to receive the reward, in honor of your diplomacy and friendliness in dealing with ]. I think it's important to put a good face on Misplaced Pages for everyone, and I admire the way you approached it. ] <sup>]</sup> 12:35, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
			\|}
			:I'm watching his page in case he decides to verify license, but I have to admit there's a chance I'll overlook it. I'm not on as often as I'd like to be in this account. :) If you happen to see him leaving notes or questions that I can help with, please let me know. --] <sup>]</sup> 12:36, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

			::awwww .. thank you so much MRG ... you are so da-gone sweet. :-) — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 18:46, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

			:::{{small\|The next line is, "...got that sand all over your feet..." ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 21:28, 15 December 2011 (UTC)}}

			Thanks, all for your help with ]. Much appreciated. Wasn't sure what the best course of action was. ] 02:26, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

			== ANI comment (Review of block reviews) ==

			I was actually responding (and posing the question) to Nobody Ent. I'm sorry if the indention was not clear that I was making the reply to the OP and not you. ] (]) 20:06, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
			:ahhh .. ok .. no problem. I know I don't always do real well at explaining what I'm thinking. Have a good one — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 20:08, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
			m²==Brains work Better==
			{\| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
			\|rowspan="2" valign="middle" \| ]
			\|rowspan="2" \|
			\|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" \| '''The 'Brains Work Better in A Community' Award'''
			\|-
			\|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" \| Thank you for all your efforts to befriend your fellow Wikipedian Editors. Sometimes we need a reminder that we are all human afterall. This barnstar is awarded to Editor Ched Davis for having the intelligence to work in ] with situations and other editors. ]<small>]</small> 23:49, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
			\|}
			<noinclude>


			:Buster .. you are such a kind and decent man. there is no way I deserve such a thing .. but I do thank you. I have some real life things to take care of here for the next day or 3 with my grandkids .. but I do promise to get back to you very soon. All my very best my friend - have a safe and happy holiday. :) ... — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 16:03, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
			::I have 13...or is it 14. Best to you and yours.]<small>]</small> 22:30, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

			== baiting for wp:civil ban ==

			hi!

			You wrote: "I've seen experienced editors (including some admins) use sugar-coated condescending and baiting text to draw an (dare I say?) opponent into a "blunt" retort: and then lower that "civility" hammer."

			I didn't think there was much point trying to explain this but as you so specifically described the tactic, I was just looking at this:

			* This indefinite ban:
			* Which was based on this wp:civil report:
			* Which talked about this discussion:.
			* Where Anna was answering the question raised in this edit:
			*The response was: "And what has your crackpot conspiracy theory got to do with the article? We don't give a rat's arse what you think 'may' be happening. Please don't spam this page with delusional junk."

			This baited Anna into writing the first bad comment she ever wrote for which she was indefinitely banned.<small>The article talks about a company that was note worthy 17 years ago. It is perfectly valid to use the talk page to figure out when ''Clean Energy Technology Inc'' closed shop or if it was merged etc.</small>

			Examples of AndyTheGrump's trying to bait me:

			* "What fucking part of 'not WP:RS don't you halfwits understand?)"
			* "fuck off, scumbag"
			* "moron"
			* "go fuck yourself"

			How he talks about me:

			* "Please don't post ridiculous notices about 'consensus'. The fuckwits edit-warring over this article don't give a damn about such concepts - and frankly, if Misplaced Pages is going to tolerate such morionic POV-pushing turds, it can manage without me..."

			I just ignore him but it is obvious enough this user should not be filling wp:civil reports about anyone. The mechanics seem to work exactly the way you described. ] (]) 13:41, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

			I just found this Arbitration Case. It provides this example. ] (]) 14:14, 24 December 2011 (UTC)


			:*first let me say that I am truly sorry that anyone has treated you so poorly here. And I do promise to look into this and try to find a way to a better understanding
			:*second .. and I am sorry that I'm not on this asap .. but it is a major holiday in my part of the world ... my grandkids have to come first for the next day or two — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 15:56, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
			::*And a merry christmas to you too~! --<small>] <sup><span style="font-family:Italic;color:black">]</span></sup></small> 16:51, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

			:::Merry Christmas :)

			:::I'm not bothered by the treatment, it just doesn't seem appropriate to ban anyone for being rude to him.

			:::It's a classic case of "Charlie bit my finger".

			:::] (]) 05:37, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

			::::I had never seen or heard of that "Charlie bit my finger" vid before. It did make me laugh ... I'm sure I'll use in the future. Yes, I agree - there are some folks that go back again to the lion's cage in an attempt to poke the ones that give exactly the reaction they expect - and then complain about that very reaction. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 12:05, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

			==Attack page?==
			*Ched, can be construed as an attack page? IMO, calling someone a prostitute is downright nasty and uncalled for on Christmas day or just about any other day. --<small>] <sup><span style="font-family:Italic;color:black">]</span></sup></small> 16:51, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

			== GAN ] ==

			Hi,

			I have reviewed your nomination as ] and put it on hold for seven days so you can respond to the problems I've noted.

			Please feel free to contact me with questions or comments.

			Best wishes, ] (]) 20:08, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

			== Have a great Christmas ==

			{\| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
			\|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" \| ]
			\|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" \| '''Christmas pudding is hot stuff!'''
			\|-
			\|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" \| Have a wonderful Christmas. As ] says: "I wish you a hopeful Christmas, I wish you a brave new year; All anguish, pain, and sadness Leave your heart and let your road be clear." ] (] …]) 23:49, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
			\|}


			:awwwww .. thank you so much Pesky - very much appreciated, and I wish you a most wonderful day and season as well. :) — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 12:33, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

			==Merry X'mas~!==
			<div style="{{Round corners}}; float: left; margin-top: 3px; background-color: #FC9; border: 1px solid #8888aa; padding: 10px; width: 425px; clear: both;">
			<div style="{{Round corners}}; border-style:solid; border-color:#4682B4; background-color:#900020; border-width:5px; text-align:left; padding:18px;" class="plainlinks" valign="top" width: 300px;> ]<div class="center"><p><span style="color:white">"And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold,</span></p><p> I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.</p><p><span style="color:white"> For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord."</span></p><p><i><small>Luke 2:10-11 (King James Version)</small></i></p><p>
			<span style="color:white"> <small>] <sup><span style="font-family:Italic;color:black">]</span></sup></small>is wishing you a ].</span></p><p><span style="color:white">This greeting (and season) promotes ] </span></p></div> <br />
			<span style="color:white">Spread the cheer by adding <nowiki>{{Subst:Xmas4}}</nowiki> to their talk page with a friendly message.</span>
			</div></div>
			{{clear}}

			:Thank you so much Dave ... I hope you have a wonderful holiday as well. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 12:34, 25 December 2011 (UTC)


			==Merry Christmas==
			I would like to wish all my fellow editors a very Merry Christmas; and a most wonderful holiday season. Cheers. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 12:37, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

			==Frohliche Weinachten und Gluckliches neues Jahr==
			] Photo from Baden_Wurttemberg, Germany.] ] 12:37, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
			::Is it a white Christmas in your area? Not here, just a heavy frost. ] ] 12:51, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
			:::Yea, same here. Pittsburgh and Oakdale are a bit chilly .. but not white. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 13:11, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

			==Parrish award==
			See has some but not all recipients. Making more edits too. ] ] 15:28, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
			:Not sure what to do with these: *
			* ] ] 15:36, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

			::very cool .. thanks for the links! ... hope to get back to it tonight. :) ... and thank you again for all your help PS — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 18:27, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
			:::I'm now not so sure these add much, should we just put them in ext links?] ] 23:05, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

			:::: My guess would be that the N. Pilot one would be a good external at the Tuskegee article. The letter to Weckhorst I'd definitely keep - maybe as an external now, .. and if we continue to expand it has some good quotes and insight to how Parrish thought and acted. That first one may actually be in the refs now .. not sure. We did a bit more work on the article today - see what you think. What else do we need to do? — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 23:15, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

			:Yea, the first is a ref from a few days ago. Added the other two to ext links, one each article. Unless you can think of something else, you should ask for a wrap up review now. ] ] 23:27, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
			::GA CONGRATS!] ] 23:59, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
			:::Yes, congrats! This is an article that many wouldn't have bothered with but definitely deserves to get attention. Hope you will continue improving it. Best wishes, ] (]) 00:04, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
			::::A nice post-Christmas gift, you did it! GA added GA you know where, --] (]) 12:43, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

			*'''Thank you all'''. It's a real pleasure and a privilege to work with you folks. I am so glad you let me be a part of it. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 14:27, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

			== C/2011 W3 (Lovejoy) ==

			Hey Ched, I was wondering if you'd mind examining ] for me. I just rewrote and expanded the thing, and while I'm rather proud of the result, I feel I need a friend to tell me everything I did wrong so my soul isn't crushed. :D <small>(And a belated Merry Christmas and early Happy New Year to ya!)</small><span style="white-space:nowrap; text-shadow:gray 5px 3px 1px;">— ] <small>(] ] ])</small></span> 11:41, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

			:VERY cool. I've put it on my watchlist, and I'll try to do something productive on it in the next couple days. It's a topic I'll enjoy, and I always do enjoy working with you. ... beside, maybe it will get me away from some of the AC drama. :) — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 11:00, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

			::To take you further away I suggest some ] related to a comet, pictured, --] (]) 11:37, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

			:::Thank you Gerda - I did a search and listened for quite a bit to various selections in that genre. Very relaxing indeed. I always did enjoy Celtic music.
			:::@Huntster .. that is a VERY well written article. Did it go to DYK or anything? I changed a thing or two .. got some clarification on the talk page - I'll see if I can find a reference for the response I got on talk as well - perhaps add that somewhere? — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 22:17, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

			== ''']''' ==
			{\|style="border: 3px solid #6881b9; margin: 0.5em; padding: 0.5em; border-radius: 8px;" cellpadding="5"
			\|-
			\|You are invited to the ''']''', taking place every day next week from January 4–7, Wednesday to Saturday, in College Park, Maryland (Washington, DC metro area). Come help me cap off my ] at the National Archives with one last success!

			This will be a casual working event in which Wikipedians are getting together to scan interesting documents at the National Archives related to a different theme each day—''currently: spaceflight, women's suffrage, Chile, and battleships''—for use on Misplaced Pages/Wikimedia Commons. The event is being held on multiple days, and in the evenings and weekend, so that as many locals and out-of-towners from nearby regions<sup>1</sup> as possible can come. ]! ]·] 01:04, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

			<small><sup>1</sup> Wikipedians from DC, Baltimore, Philadelphia, Newark, New York City, and Pittsburgh have been invited.</small>
			\|]
			\|}

			== Congratulations on reaching ] status on ] ==
			{\| style="border: 1px solid {{{border\|gray}}}; background-color: {{{color\|#fdffe7}}};"
			\|rowspan="2" valign="middle" \| ]
			\|rowspan="2" \|
			\|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" \| '''Congratulations on your GA Article'''
			\|-
			\|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" \| The article ] that you -researched, developed, and substantially contributed to has reached the ] status. Thank you for your work here. ] would like to award you the GA Editing Barnstar.
			\|}
			::THANK '''YOU'''! ] ] 18:28, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

			== By the by ==

			Thanks for commenting on my evidence/analysis. On a related issue, your contribution to this affair surely deserves commendation, particularly in the way you promptly drew attention to the potential furore, and have acted consistently as a critical friend to MF. To me, that's a model for how we should all interact with other editors. '']'' 02:03, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

			:wow .. to be honest, I don't know what to say. That you would take notice of my meager efforts here leaves me feeling wordless. I know that you are one of the "big guns" here, and I am truly flattered. Thank you so much for your kind words GG. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 02:51, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
			::I just came here to say exactly the same thing, which I did with a twee bit of wikilove below. It's very hard to wade through a sewer and not come out smelling of crap, but you've managed. ] <span style="font-weight:bold;">·</span> (]) 11:43, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

			The qualities of an editor are defined by the quality of their edits: you've made some very good edits here, and I am pleased to see that I am far from being the only editor who has noticed. '']'' 23:26, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

			:thank you GG. I figure I still have tons to learn, and a long way to go - but I'll keep plugging away at it. :) — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 23:35, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

			== A barnstar for you! ==

			{\| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
			\|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" \| ]
			\|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" \| '''The Civility Barnstar'''
			\|-
			\|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" \| I've been reading through the whole Christmas fun on civility (since I've been away for a bit). From what I've seen, almost everyone has acted in a way I'm not impressed with, but the way you handled the comment which sparked all of this off was a diamond in the rough. Kudos Ched, I'm glad there are people like you on WP. ] <span style="font-weight:bold;">·</span> (]) 11:41, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
			\|}
			:'''Strong support''', --] (]) 12:45, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
			:'''Support''', -]<small>]</small> 15:46, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

			::thank you so much folks .. I honestly don't know what to say. There are just so many great folks here ... I feel honored just to be a part of such a great group of folks. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 20:08, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

			:'''Support''' even though I don't know what's going on. I do know that you are a civil person :) <span style="white-space:nowrap; text-shadow:gray 5px 3px 1px;">— ] <small>(] ] ])</small></span> 22:14, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

			::lol .. thanks Huntster. Not really sure how I got into that huge ] myself. I really need to be hanging out with you at articles more I think. :) — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 23:16, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
			:'''Strong support and OOH RAH''', Yea team! VERY well deserved! ] ] 23:19, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
			::lol .. thanks PS. :) — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 23:24, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

			==PA==

			(As in "NPA".) Isn't a bit of an overreaction? First, you refer to ], but that's mostly about attacking one's addressee. Secondly, the writer doesn't refer to the politician as an asshole, a wife-beater, a cheat, a scumbag, a crook, a phoney, or a moron; or in the pay of Israel, "Islamofascists", or the tobacco business; or a puppet controlled by Bilderberg, the "Illuminati", Cheney, extraterrestrial reptiles, etc -- he merely calls him "abhorrent". True, this hardly indicates the dispassionate stance needed for encyclopedic writing, but it also hardly strikes me as a personal attack. (It also may be ''useful'' as an indicator that this editor isn't or can't be dispassionate.) -- ] (]) 12:55, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

			:I realize that the subject matter is quite polarizing, and that many folks have strong views on Santorum; but that does not give us leave to refer to others as "abhorrent". I could have and should have also linked to ] as well, and if you will note: I did not go and chastise the editor. I simply removed the offending remark. If you feel it is acceptable to refer to others as "abhorrent", then I'm not really sure what more I can say here. If you wish to revert me and restore the original ''"abhorrent Mr Santorum"'' than I will certainly not try to remove the comment again. I saw what I thought was an offensive personal attack on another living person, so I removed it. I don't have any desire to fight, edit-war, or create any major drama about it though. Feel free to revert at will - and thank you for notifying me of your objection to my actions. cheers and best, — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 13:13, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

			::Oh, the number of people who abhor Santorum should be beside the point; people should have no more or less right to call him abhorrent than to call Romney or Obama abhorrent. (My guess, though, is it that ''isn't'' beside the point: consider how little worry there seems to be about what's on, say, ].) What does it mean to say that somebody is abhorrent? Something like "I abhor him and a lot of other people do too". If that's on the right track (and it's only my first approximation), then it doesn't seem an attack to me; rather, it's a statement of and about strong dislike. -- ] (]) 13:57, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

			:::I think for me the distinction lies in the specific way the word is used. If one says "Mr. Santorum's politics, (or statement) is abhorrent" then the adjective clarifies an intangible (his politics or his statement) If one says that they "abhor ", then they state their own personal (and subjective) feelings toward a subject. But ''when'' a person uses the sentence structure: ''BLP doesn't cover this, since there is no false information about the abhorrent Mr Santorum.'' - then clearly (in my mind) the word "abhorrent" becomes a direct and deliberate attempt using the adjective to suggest that the '''person''' is ''inherently'' "abhorrent" ie: ''loathsome - odious - detestable - abominable - loathful''. If that is not a personal attack on someone - then I'm sorry, I don't know what is. '''Regardless of any political inclinations here''', can you honestly draw no distinction between these things? I may abhor Obama's political agenda. I may abhor the impact he's had on the US. But I can NOT say he '''is''' an abhorrent person on Misplaced Pages. BLP, NPA, and CIV simply forbid that kind of thing.

			:::Ya know - there's a case going on now up at arbcom regarding language and civility. And for the most part we frown on people who ''do'' call others (to use some of your own words) "asshole, a wife-beater, a cheat, a scumbag, a crook, a phoney, or a moron..." (toss in a few of the more base and crass ones there and we could really have a blast here). But if it's going to come down to a ruling at Arbcom that we can '''not''' call people things like "cnt, ass, ccks*cker, etc.", but that it '''is''' perfectly fine to degrade and insult others so long as we use nice pretty words like "abhorrent, loathsome, odious, or detestable" then you set the entire site up for a class-warfare schism that many will not want any part of. (myself included).

			:::I will be glad to take a look at the Mugabe stuff tonight. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 14:31, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

			::::Yes, we do indeed frown on people who call others assholes, wife-beaters, etc -- and rightly so (with the minor exception, I suppose, of those people who have been convicted of beating their wives or who have confessed to having beaten them, etc etc). To say that somebody is "abhorrent" is, I'd say, very different -- and as a description of undesirability it's tolerable (though not to be encouraged) when that person not only is a public figure but is also openly participating in what is very much a popularity contest. If somebody were to refer to ''you'' as "abhorrent" on a talk page, I'd probably leave it but have word with him either there or on his talk page. If on the other hand he referred to you as an "asshole", I'd "redact" it and give him an earful; a repeat would earn him a block. ¶ Well, perhaps you and I disagree on what is and isn't degrading. -- ] (]) 02:52, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
			::::::Isn't that what civility blocks are all about? BLocking someone because there's disagreement about what is what?] ] 02:55, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
			:::::::No it isn't what they are all about. -- ] (]) 03:11, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
			::::::::Sure it is. Go look at the Malleus arbcase. ] ] 03:15, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
			:::::::::]? Yes, I looked at it. I released my cursor here and there within it, and read the surroundings. They looked interesting and intelligent, not least among them the comments by our genial host Ched. I also very much like the idea of "Malleus incivility birthday bingo"; time willing, I'll try it out. But read all of that stuff? Sorry, no. "This user is not an arb and does not wish to be one." I'll wait to read the results. Unless perhaps I'm <s>canvassed</s> asked to read some particular part within it. -- ] (]) 09:26, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

			* I will be away tomorrow ... but I will reply when I get back. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 05:36, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
			:*Only if you're in the mood to do so. No offense taken -- and certainly no gloating ("Wee-hee, I got the last word!") -- if you don't. There's so much else to be done. In the meantime, let me (again) reassure you that I do not intend to encourage the use of "abhorrent" or similar. -- ] (]) 09:26, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

			== Learning ==

			You mentioned "learning" in the edit summary for the above. I would like to expand my vocabulary and asked for a few words in their ], --] (]) 13:34, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
			:Thank you!--] (]) 14:47, 5 January 2012 (UTC)


			== Malleus Incivility Birthday Bingo: (May 9) ==
			* I Win!!! RfC on PBS ... naaa .. that won't work - there were more supports for Malleus than any other section.
			* .. naaa .. he was talking about himself.
			*] ... naaa .. that was getting an article up to GA status.
			*] ... nope again - another "improve the article to GA" thing.
			*] ... drat .. another GA
			*] awww come on now - how many Ga articles can one person do in one day?
			* .. oh wait .. it's a compliment.
			* .. well considering he was one of 63 opposes - might have to call this a wash.
			*'''I Win''' . hmmmm .. wait a second - let me think about this one a bit..... (meh - he disagreed with ''ME''<sup></sup> - so I win!)

			So - on this day in history, Malleus voiced the most supported view at a RfC, complimented one admin., opposed an RfA, pointed out an inconsistency at ], and took '''4''' articles to GA. Quite some days work I'd say. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 17:18, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

			*<sup></sup> <small>I supported the SoV RfA.</small>

			== For the record ==

			] is an internationally syndicated columnist whose work has appeared in dozens of markets for over twenty years. He has had five books published by major publishers; one of those books served as the basis for an award-winning musical. He launched the ], which drew the personal participation of the President of the United States (among many, many others). He may not be 'Walter Cronkite, Edward R. Murrow, or Rupert Murdoch', but he's never claimed to be (and really, categorizing Murdoch with Murrow and Cronkite? Murdoch is not a journalist. Murdoch ''employs'' journalists). That doesn't make him less of a significant or influential figure; he's well past '15 minutes'.

			I would also point out that Mr Savage's distasteful neologism says nothing whatsoever about homosexuality. ] (]) 20:21, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

			:You are absolutely correct, and I apologize. I have re factored my statement. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 23:04, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 10:53, 8 March 2023

This is an archive of past discussions with User:Ched. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

←

→

All history of my talk page from 2008 through 2011 are located on this page. This IS an archive though, so please direct any CURRENT thoughts to my CURRENT TALK PAGE HERE. Thank you.

Talk archives from July 2011 through January 5, 2012

Award

	The Order of The King
	I hereby award you this award, for your consistently taking The High Road. :) ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 08:44, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

WOW .. holy bazoinkers Batman. I don't know if I have EVER seen you give such a thing Bugs. Thank you ... I am totally at a loss for words here. — Ched : ? 12:12, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Crat bar

I thought I'd ask if you would like to comment on this discussion about the crat threshold as you seemed interested in the related dicussions a short while ago. Best regards. - Hydroxonium (T•C•V) 20:38, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

commented there. — Ched : ? 21:03, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Hi Ched. We've moved our discussion regarding the bureaucrat threshold to User talk:Hydroxonium/Requests for bureaucratship threshold and I thought you might like to comment on it. Thanks. - Hydroxonium (T•C•V) 07:27, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Hi Hydro, Looks good at first glance. I'll check it out in more detail this evening. Cheers. Ched (east coast USA) — Ched : ? 15:00, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

The RfC has gone live here. - Hydroxonium (T•C•V) 02:20, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Digs

Hi. I didn't perceive any digs directed towards me. That said, the way you phrased your comment implied that bureaucrats would misuse the -sysop bit as a quasi-political tool. As that doesn't advance discussion of why or how emergency desysops should take place, I felt obliged to call you out on that. Titoxd 07:01, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

AHHH .. OK. And I didn't mean a dig at the 'crats' either. My thinking is this. The crats are "local", and edit or are active here on EN, so they are going to be familiar with many of the Admins. I think that familiarity leads people (even if unconsciously) to develop either a like or dislike (or perhaps mistrust is a better word) of some admins. I think that subconscious "knowing" of an admin. could all to easily play a role in the decision making process of whether or not an admin's actions were causing an "emergency". I just haven't seen many (perhaps one very questionable situation a few months back which arbcom handled involving some questionable mental stability issues) "emergencies" here on WP. I'll try to explain there as well. Thanks for letting me know that what I posted could be taken that way. It's late here, and perhaps I'm not expressing myself well at the moment due to fatigue. — Ched : ? 07:13, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Closing

Re: . Thank you. Worm · (talk) 08:57, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

No problem. Seemed to be stuck in one of those dreaded programming loops. :) — Ched : ? 09:05, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

To say the least. Just a pity it wasn't closed sooner, tis one of the reasons I avoid ANI, it's easily one of the most toxic areas of the encyclopedia, everything seems worse there and if blocks aren't handed out within the first hour or so, threads almost always degenerate. I'm glad someone stepped up and shut it down :) Worm · (talk) 09:28, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

ANI closure

Hi Ched!

While I registered some disagreement at the ANI, I permit myself here to thank you very sincerely for closing it.

You may wish to include some of the tail subtopics in your closed record.

Sincerely, Kiefer.Wolfowitz 08:59, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Hi HW, it seemed that userbox and its braces were messing with my placement of "discussion close" ending. Best of luck in other venues with this, but perhaps it would be easier and best for all involved to just drop the stick. Not saying you have to, just a suggestion is all. Cheers. — Ched : ? 09:08, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

I have no plans to continue such exchanges, but as you wrote while you closed, Worm plans to write an RfC. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 09:16, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Nels Running

On 9 August 2011, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Nels Running, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that US Air Force Major General Nels Running, a recipient of seven Distinguished Flying Crosses, had never boarded an airplane until he left his home town to attend the Air Force Academy? You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:06, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

RfA Reform update

Hi. It's been a little while since the last message on RfA reform, and there's been a fair amount of slow but steady progress. However, there is currently a flurry of activity due to some conversations on Jimbo's talk page.

I think we're very close to putting an idea or two forward before the community and there are at least two newer ones in the pipeline. So if you have a moment:

Have a look at the min requirement proposal and familiarise yourself with the statistics, I'd appreciate comment on where we should put the bar.
Any final comments would be appreciated on the clerks proposal.
Feedback on the two newer proposals - Pre-RfA & Misplaced Pages:RfA reform 2011/Sysop on request. Both are more radical reforms of RfA and might run along side the current system.

Thanks for reading and for any comments that you've now made.

Delivered by MessageDeliveryBot on behalf of RfA reform 2011 at 21:38, 6 September 2011 (UTC).

I've got mail

Hey Ched--did you email me a URL? I want to make sure it's actually from you before I click on it. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 14:04, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

NO ... DO NOT CLICK THAT LINK. I got several emails this morning from folks and made the mistake of clicking on one of the links .. must have spammed my contact list. Very sorry folks ... running scans now. — Ched : ? 14:12, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. Good luck cleaning up that mess...and BTW, that was a marvelous collection of goat porn! Drmies (talk) 14:53, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Can't say I know much about the goats, ... but I think I figured out where it started. Was a Facebook friend rather than a WP one .. sigh .. oh well. Thanks for the info. Cheers. — Ched : ? 15:10, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Did someone say goat porn? By chance, I've just started an article on that subject and could use some references. Please forward to my P.O. Box, ASAP. Buster Seven Talk 15:17, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Ched, get active on wiki again like before. We need more than goat porn.PumpkinSky talk 20:50, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Should be back on a more regular basis the middle of next week. Wanna get some work into Noel's article. — Ched : ? 21:12, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Glad to hear you're just on a break/busy. I almost forgot about Noel, but I'll do what I can to help. PumpkinSky talk 21:23, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

You're invited! Wikimedia DC Annual Membership Meeting

DC Meetup 23 & Annual Membership Meeting
Wikimedia District of Columbia, the newest officially recognized chapter, is holding its Annual Membership Meeting at 1pm on Saturday, October 1, 2011 at the Tenley-Friendship Neighborhood Library. Agenda items include: election of the Board of Directors for the next two years approval of a budget for the 2011-2012 fiscal year report on the activities and accomplishments of the past year social gathering afterwards at a nearby restaurant Candidate nominations are open until 11:59pm EDT on Saturday, September 24. We encourage you to consider being a candidate. (see see candidate instructions) The meeting is open to both the general public and members from within the DC-MD-VA-WV-DE region and beyond. We encourage everyone to attend! You may join the chapter at the meeting or online.

DC Meetup 23 & Annual Membership Meeting

Wikimedia District of Columbia, the newest officially recognized chapter, is holding its Annual Membership Meeting at 1pm on Saturday, October 1, 2011 at the Tenley-Friendship Neighborhood Library.

Agenda items include:

election of the Board of Directors for the next two years
approval of a budget for the 2011-2012 fiscal year
report on the activities and accomplishments of the past year
social gathering afterwards at a nearby restaurant

Candidate nominations are open until 11:59pm EDT on Saturday, September 24. We encourage you to consider being a candidate. (see see candidate instructions)

The meeting is open to both the general public and members from within the DC-MD-VA-WV-DE region and beyond. We encourage everyone to attend!

You may join the chapter at the meeting or online.

Note: You can remove your name from the DC meetup invite list here. -- Message delivered by AudeBot, on behalf of User:Aude

News and progress from RfA reform 2011

RfA reform: ...and what you can do now.
(You are receiving this message because you are either a task force member, or you have contributed to recent discussions on any of these pages.) The number of nominations continues to nosedive seriously, according to these monthly figures. We know why this is, and if the trend continues our reserve of active admins will soon be underwater. Misplaced Pages now needs suitable editors to come forward. This can only be achieved either through changes to the current system, a radical alternative, or by fiat from elsewhere. A lot of work is constantly being done behind the scenes by the coordinators and task force members, such as monitoring the talk pages, discussing new ideas, organising the project pages, researching statistics and keeping them up to date. You'll also see for example that we have recently made tables to compare how other Wikipedias choose their sysops, and some tools have been developed to more closely examine !voters' habits. The purpose of WP:RFA2011 is to focus attention on specific issues of our admin selection process and to develop RfC proposals for solutions to improve them. For this, we have organised the project into dedicated sections each with their own discussion pages. It is important to understand that all Misplaced Pages policy changes take a long time to implement whether or not the discussions appear to be active - getting the proposals right before offering them for discussion by the broader community is crucial to the success of any RfC. Consider keeping the pages and their talk pages on your watchlist; do check out older threads before starting a new one on topics that have been discussed already, and if you start a new thread, please revisit it regularly to follow up on new comments. The object of WP:RFA2011 is not to make it either easier or harder to become an admin - those criteria are set by those who !vote at each RfA. By providing a unique venue for developing ideas for change independent of the general discussion at WT:RFA, the project has two clearly defined goals: Improving the environment that surrounds RfA in order to encourage mature, experienced editors of the right calibre to come forward, pass the interview, and dedicate some of their time to admin tasks. Discouraging, in the nicest way possible of course, those whose RfA will be obvious NOTNOW or SNOW, and to guide them towards the advice pages. The fastest way is through improvement to the current system. Workspace is however also available within the project pages to suggest and discuss ideas that are not strictly within the remit of this project. Users are invited to make use of these pages where they will offer maximum exposure to the broader community, rather than individual projects in user space. We already know what's wrong with RfA - let's not clutter the project with perennial chat. RFA2011 is now ready to propose some of the elements of reform, and all the task force needs to do now is to pre-draft those proposals in the project's workspace, agree on the wording, and then offer them for central discussion where the entire Misplaced Pages community will be more than welcome to express their opinions in order to build consensus. New tool Check your RfA !voting history! Since the editors' RfA !vote counter at X!-Tools has been down for a long while, we now have a new RfA Vote Counter to replace it. A significant improvement on the former tool, it provides a a complete breakdown of an editor's RfA votes, together with an analysis of the participant's voting pattern. Are you ready to help? Although the main engine of RFA2011 is its task force, constructive comments from any editors are always welcome on the project's various talk pages. The main reasons why WT:RfA was never successful in getting anything done are that threads on different aspects of RfA are all mixed together, and are then archived where nobody remembers them and where they are hard to find - the same is true of ad hoc threads on the founder's talk page.

RfA reform: ...and what you can do now.

(You are receiving this message because you are either a task force member, or you have contributed to recent discussions on any of these pages.)

The number of nominations continues to nosedive seriously, according to these monthly figures. We know why this is, and if the trend continues our reserve of active admins will soon be underwater. Misplaced Pages now needs suitable editors to come forward. This can only be achieved either through changes to the current system, a radical alternative, or by fiat from elsewhere.

A lot of work is constantly being done behind the scenes by the coordinators and task force members, such as monitoring the talk pages, discussing new ideas, organising the project pages, researching statistics and keeping them up to date. You'll also see for example that we have recently made tables to compare how other Wikipedias choose their sysops, and some tools have been developed to more closely examine !voters' habits.

The purpose of WP:RFA2011 is to focus attention on specific issues of our admin selection process and to develop RfC proposals for solutions to improve them. For this, we have organised the project into dedicated sections each with their own discussion pages. It is important to understand that all Misplaced Pages policy changes take a long time to implement whether or not the discussions appear to be active - getting the proposals right before offering them for discussion by the broader community is crucial to the success of any RfC. Consider keeping the pages and their talk pages on your watchlist; do check out older threads before starting a new one on topics that have been discussed already, and if you start a new thread, please revisit it regularly to follow up on new comments.

The object of WP:RFA2011 is not to make it either easier or harder to become an admin - those criteria are set by those who !vote at each RfA. By providing a unique venue for developing ideas for change independent of the general discussion at WT:RFA, the project has two clearly defined goals:

Improving the environment that surrounds RfA in order to encourage mature, experienced editors of the right calibre to come forward, pass the interview, and dedicate some of their time to admin tasks.
Discouraging, in the nicest way possible of course, those whose RfA will be obvious NOTNOW or SNOW, and to guide them towards the advice pages.

The fastest way is through improvement to the current system. Workspace is however also available within the project pages to suggest and discuss ideas that are not strictly within the remit of this project. Users are invited to make use of these pages where they will offer maximum exposure to the broader community, rather than individual projects in user space.

We already know what's wrong with RfA - let's not clutter the project with perennial chat. RFA2011 is now ready to propose some of the elements of reform, and all the task force needs to do now is to pre-draft those proposals in the project's workspace, agree on the wording, and then offer them for central discussion where the entire Misplaced Pages community will be more than welcome to express their opinions in order to build consensus.

New tool Check your RfA !voting history! Since the editors' RfA !vote counter at X!-Tools has been down for a long while, we now have a new RfA Vote Counter to replace it. A significant improvement on the former tool, it provides a a complete breakdown of an editor's RfA votes, together with an analysis of the participant's voting pattern.

Are you ready to help? Although the main engine of RFA2011 is its task force, constructive comments from any editors are always welcome on the project's various talk pages. The main reasons why WT:RfA was never successful in getting anything done are that threads on different aspects of RfA are all mixed together, and are then archived where nobody remembers them and where they are hard to find - the same is true of ad hoc threads on the founder's talk page.

Delivered by MessageDeliveryBot on behalf of RfA reform 2011 at 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC).

DC-area Meetup, Saturday, October 8

National Archives Backstage Pass - Who should come? You should. Really.
	You are invited to the National Archives in College Park for a special backstage pass and scanathon meetup with Archivist of the United States David Ferriero, on Saturday, October 8. Go behind the scenes and into the stacks at the National Archives, help digitize documents, and edit together! Free catered lunch provided! Dominic·t 16:02, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Tfd: Facepalm

See WP:Templates for discussion/Log/2011 October 3#Template:Facepalm
Facepalm ... Goodness, gracious, great balls of fire~! --Dave 17:36, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

You're invited! Misplaced Pages Loves Libraries DC

Misplaced Pages Loves Libraries DC & edit-a-thon
Misplaced Pages Loves Libraries comes to DC on Saturday, November 5th, from 1-5pm, at the Martin Luther King Jr Memorial Library. We will be holding an edit-a-thon, working together to improve Misplaced Pages content related to DC history, arts, civil rights, or whatever suits your interests. There may also be opportunities to help with scanning historic photos plus some swag! You're invited and we hope to see you there!
RSVP + more details!

Misplaced Pages Loves Libraries DC & edit-a-thon

Misplaced Pages Loves Libraries comes to DC on Saturday, November 5th, from 1-5pm, at the Martin Luther King Jr Memorial Library.

We will be holding an edit-a-thon, working together to improve Misplaced Pages content related to DC history, arts, civil rights, or whatever suits your interests. There may also be opportunities to help with scanning historic photos plus some swag!

You're invited and we hope to see you there!

RSVP + more details!

Note: You can remove your name from the DC meetup invite list here. -- Message delivered by AudeBot (talk) 18:38, 31 October 2011 (UTC), on behalf of User:Aude

Obviously I'm not gonna make any of this stuff this time around ..sorry, ... but hope you folks had a great time. — Ched : ? 22:14, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Dispute Resolution

You may be interested in this. Peter jackson (talk) 11:06, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Fine Art Edit-a-Thon & DC Meetup 26!

Fine Art Edit-a-Thon & Meetup - Who should come? You should. Really.
	FINE ART EDIT-A-THON & DC MEETUP 26 is December 17! The Edit-a-Thon will cover fine art subjects from the Federal Art Project and the meet up will involve Wikipedians from the area as well as Wiki-loving GLAM professionals. You don't have to attend both to attend one (but we hope you do!) Click the link above and sign up & spread the word! See you there! SarahStierch (talk) 17:15, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Fine Art Edit-a-Thon & Meetup - Who should come? You should. Really.

FINE ART EDIT-A-THON & DC MEETUP 26 is December 17! The Edit-a-Thon will cover fine art subjects from the Federal Art Project and the meet up will involve Wikipedians from the area as well as Wiki-loving GLAM professionals. You don't have to attend both to attend one (but we hope you do!) Click the link above and sign up & spread the word! See you there! SarahStierch (talk) 17:15, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

RFA thankspam

Thank you for your support at my recent successful RFA. Being now the new fellow in the fraternity of administrators, I will do my best to live up to the confidence shown in me by others, will move slowly and carefully when using the mop, will seek input from others before any action of which I might be unsure, and will try not to break anything beyond repair. Best, Schmidt, 21:59, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

re: Kimo Williams

Chad

Your email to me is correct as the biography of Kimo Williamswas a cut and paste from my web site. However, I also wrote the biography. Should I cut and paste from my original word document?

Kimo Williams — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kimowilliams (talk • contribs) 15:59, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Good day to you sir. First, let me say it's an honor to meet you. I did receive your email, and I will follow up on this. I want to do a bit of research before I can say for sure how we should move forward here. As you may have noted, your edits were reverted on the article .. basically because it was a cut and paste from your website. Especially since that site stated the "all rights reserved" we can't just do a copy and paste since it would violate our copyright policies. I want to check in with a few folks who are better versed in the area on how to proceed, but I will get back to you in the next couple days. If you happen to have any links to other websites .. such as perhaps any interviews you've done, or news reports that document any information it would be very helpful as well. I look forward to working and helping with this. Cheers and best. — Ched : ? 16:09, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Occupy Marines

Hey Ched, thanks for the note. Yes the discussion is getting rather long on the AfD - have to feel for the poor closing admin... Youre writing skills look fine from where Im sitting. I agree the article isnt ideal in its current form. Maybe there's two solutions. If others agree, Veteran involvement with Occupy or similar could be created. An issue with this is that although its more notable, it is in a sense a less concrete topic than our current one. Maybe the best solution is to wait for a few weeks and then try to improve the existing article? I havent done so myself yet for similar reasons to your good self - there seems to be a lot of passion and energy from both sides right now, but it will almost certainly dissipate if we wait a while.

Sorry to oppose what may seem like a workable compromise. Ive been a fairly substantial contributor to our main Occupy Movement article, and there is so much interesting stuff folk want to add that much of it is having to be rejected. Discussions are currently under way to split out sections into dedicated articles. OWS seems similarly cramped. So Im hoping no one will try to force a merge. As the excellent editor DreamFocus always says, a forced merge is often an excuse for deletionists to destroy what they dont like when they cant get a delete decision. FeydHuxtable (talk) 17:14, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

sounds like a plan. I'll put on my watchlist, and if push comes to shove I'll restore and move to user space somewhere (in order to keep history). — Ched : ? 19:33, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

BN

Pfft; fun; that's how wars start eh? hee hee :-)

'nings Chzz ► 20:40, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

I feel like such an idiot .. lol. — Ched : ? 20:45, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Well done

The Random Diplomat Award

I hereby bestow upon you this Random Diplomat Award. Marie Depage was chosen to represent this high office by virtue of the facts that (a) her image is public domain, (b) she doesn't look mean, (c) she's facing right, and (d) she reproduces well in miniature.

You, by contrast, were chosen with great precision to receive the reward, in honor of your diplomacy and friendliness in dealing with Kimo Williams. I think it's important to put a good face on Misplaced Pages for everyone, and I admire the way you approached it. Moonriddengirl 12:35, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm watching his page in case he decides to verify license, but I have to admit there's a chance I'll overlook it. I'm not on as often as I'd like to be in this account. :) If you happen to see him leaving notes or questions that I can help with, please let me know. --Moonriddengirl 12:36, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

awwww .. thank you so much MRG ... you are so da-gone sweet. :-) — Ched : ? 18:46, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

The next line is, "...got that sand all over your feet..." ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 21:28, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, all for your help with Kimo Williams. Much appreciated. Wasn't sure what the best course of action was. StarM 02:26, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

ANI comment (Review of block reviews)

I was actually responding (and posing the question) to Nobody Ent. I'm sorry if the indention was not clear that I was making the reply to the OP and not you. Hasteur (talk) 20:06, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

ahhh .. ok .. no problem. I know I don't always do real well at explaining what I'm thinking. Have a good one — Ched : ? 20:08, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

m²==Brains work Better==

		The 'Brains Work Better in A Community' Award
		Thank you for all your efforts to befriend your fellow Wikipedian Editors. Sometimes we need a reminder that we are all human afterall. This barnstar is awarded to Editor Ched Davis for having the intelligence to work in harmony with situations and other editors. *Buster Seven* *Talk* 23:49, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Buster .. you are such a kind and decent man. there is no way I deserve such a thing .. but I do thank you. I have some real life things to take care of here for the next day or 3 with my grandkids .. but I do promise to get back to you very soon. All my very best my friend - have a safe and happy holiday. :) ... — Ched : ? 16:03, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

I have 13...or is it 14. Best to you and yours.Buster Seven Talk 22:30, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

baiting for wp:civil ban

hi!

You wrote: "I've seen experienced editors (including some admins) use sugar-coated condescending and baiting text to draw an (dare I say?) opponent into a "blunt" retort: and then lower that "civility" hammer."

I didn't think there was much point trying to explain this but as you so specifically described the tactic, I was just looking at this:

This indefinite ban:
Which was based on this wp:civil report:
Which talked about this discussion:.
Where Anna was answering the question raised in this edit:
The response was: "And what has your crackpot conspiracy theory got to do with the article? We don't give a rat's arse what you think 'may' be happening. Please don't spam this page with delusional junk."

This baited Anna into writing the first bad comment she ever wrote for which she was indefinitely banned.The article talks about a company that was note worthy 17 years ago. It is perfectly valid to use the talk page to figure out when Clean Energy Technology Inc closed shop or if it was merged etc.

Examples of AndyTheGrump's trying to bait me:

"What fucking part of 'not WP:RS don't you halfwits understand?)"
"fuck off, scumbag"
"moron"
"go fuck yourself"

How he talks about me:

"Please don't post ridiculous notices about 'consensus'. The fuckwits edit-warring over this article don't give a damn about such concepts - and frankly, if Misplaced Pages is going to tolerate such morionic POV-pushing turds, it can manage without me..."

I just ignore him but it is obvious enough this user should not be filling wp:civil reports about anyone. The mechanics seem to work exactly the way you described. 84.106.26.81 (talk) 13:41, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

I just found this Arbitration Case. It provides this example. 84.106.26.81 (talk) 14:14, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

first let me say that I am truly sorry that anyone has treated you so poorly here. And I do promise to look into this and try to find a way to a better understanding
second .. and I am sorry that I'm not on this asap .. but it is a major holiday in my part of the world ... my grandkids have to come first for the next day or two — Ched : ? 15:56, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

And a merry christmas to you too~! --Dave 16:51, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Merry Christmas :)

I'm not bothered by the treatment, it just doesn't seem appropriate to ban anyone for being rude to him.

It's a classic case of "Charlie bit my finger".

84.106.26.81 (talk) 05:37, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

I had never seen or heard of that "Charlie bit my finger" vid before. It did make me laugh ... I'm sure I'll use this link in the future. Yes, I agree - there are some folks that go back again to the lion's cage in an attempt to poke the ones that give exactly the reaction they expect - and then complain about that very reaction. — Ched : ? 12:05, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Attack page?

Ched, can this be construed as an attack page? IMO, calling someone a prostitute is downright nasty and uncalled for on Christmas day or just about any other day. --Dave 16:51, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

GAN Noel F. Parrish

Hi,

I have reviewed your nomination as Talk:Noel F. Parrish/GA1 and put it on hold for seven days so you can respond to the problems I've noted.

Please feel free to contact me with questions or comments.

Best wishes, MathewTownsend (talk) 20:08, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Have a great Christmas

	Christmas pudding is hot stuff!
	Have a wonderful Christmas. As the song says: "I wish you a hopeful Christmas, I wish you a brave new year; All anguish, pain, and sadness Leave your heart and let your road be clear." Pesky (talk …stalk!) 23:49, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

awwwww .. thank you so much Pesky - very much appreciated, and I wish you a most wonderful day and season as well. :) — Ched : ? 12:33, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Merry X'mas~!

"And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold,

I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.

For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord."

Luke 2:10-11 (King James Version)

Dave is wishing you a Merry Christmas.

This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove.

Spread the cheer by adding {{Subst:Xmas4}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Thank you so much Dave ... I hope you have a wonderful holiday as well. — Ched : ? 12:34, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Merry Christmas

I would like to wish all my fellow editors a very Merry Christmas; and a most wonderful holiday season. Cheers. — Ched : ? 12:37, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Frohliche Weinachten und Gluckliches neues Jahr

Photo from Baden_Wurttemberg, Germany.PumpkinSky talk 12:37, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Is it a white Christmas in your area? Not here, just a heavy frost. PumpkinSky talk 12:51, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Yea, same here. Pittsburgh and Oakdale are a bit chilly .. but not white. — Ched : ? 13:11, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Parrish award

See has some but not all recipients. Making more edits too. PumpkinSky talk 15:28, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Not sure what to do with these: *Letter to Donald Weckhorst, dated 11 April 1984

THE N. PILOT TRAINING PROGRAM PumpkinSky talk 15:36, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

very cool .. thanks for the links! ... hope to get back to it tonight. :) ... and thank you again for all your help PS — Ched : ? 18:27, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm now not so sure these add much, should we just put them in ext links?PumpkinSky talk 23:05, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

My guess would be that the N. Pilot one would be a good external at the Tuskegee article. The letter to Weckhorst I'd definitely keep - maybe as an external now, .. and if we continue to expand it has some good quotes and insight to how Parrish thought and acted. That first one may actually be in the refs now .. not sure. We did a bit more work on the article today - see what you think. What else do we need to do? — Ched : ? 23:15, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Yea, the first is a ref from a few days ago. Added the other two to ext links, one each article. Unless you can think of something else, you should ask for a wrap up review now. PumpkinSky talk 23:27, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

GA CONGRATS!PumpkinSky talk 23:59, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Yes, congrats! This is an article that many wouldn't have bothered with but definitely deserves to get attention. Hope you will continue improving it. Best wishes, MathewTownsend (talk) 00:04, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

A nice post-Christmas gift, you did it! GA added GA you know where, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:43, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Thank you all. It's a real pleasure and a privilege to work with you folks. I am so glad you let me be a part of it. — Ched : ? 14:27, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

C/2011 W3 (Lovejoy)

Hey Ched, I was wondering if you'd mind examining C/2011 W3 (Lovejoy) for me. I just rewrote and expanded the thing, and while I'm rather proud of the result, I feel I need a friend to tell me everything I did wrong so my soul isn't crushed. :D (And a belated Merry Christmas and early Happy New Year to ya!)— Huntster (t @ c) 11:41, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

VERY cool. I've put it on my watchlist, and I'll try to do something productive on it in the next couple days. It's a topic I'll enjoy, and I always do enjoy working with you. ... beside, maybe it will get me away from some of the AC drama. :) — Ched : ? 11:00, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

To take you further away I suggest some music related to a comet, pictured, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:37, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Thank you Gerda - I did a search and listened for quite a bit to various selections in that genre. Very relaxing indeed. I always did enjoy Celtic music.

@Huntster .. that is a VERY well written article. Did it go to DYK or anything? I changed a thing or two .. got some clarification on the talk page - I'll see if I can find a reference for the response I got on talk as well - perhaps add that somewhere? — Ched : ? 22:17, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

National Archives ExtravaSCANza

You are invited to the National Archives ExtravaSCANza, taking place every day next week from January 4–7, Wednesday to Saturday, in College Park, Maryland (Washington, DC metro area). Come help me cap off my stint as Wikipedian in Residence at the National Archives with one last success!

This will be a casual working event in which Wikipedians are getting together to scan interesting documents at the National Archives related to a different theme each day—currently: spaceflight, women's suffrage, Chile, and battleships—for use on Misplaced Pages/Wikimedia Commons. The event is being held on multiple days, and in the evenings and weekend, so that as many locals and out-of-towners from nearby regions as possible can come. Please join us! Dominic·t 01:04, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedians from DC, Baltimore, Philadelphia, Newark, New York City, and Pittsburgh have been invited.

Congratulations on reaching WP:GA status on Noel F. Parrish

		Congratulations on your GA Article
		The article Noel F. Parrish that you -researched, developed, and substantially contributed to has reached the Good Article status. Thank you for your work here. PumpkinSky would like to award you the GA Editing Barnstar.

THANK YOU! PumpkinSky talk 18:28, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

By the by

Thanks for commenting on my evidence/analysis. On a related issue, your contribution to this affair surely deserves commendation, particularly in the way you promptly drew attention to the potential furore, and have acted consistently as a critical friend to MF. To me, that's a model for how we should all interact with other editors. Geometry guy 02:03, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

wow .. to be honest, I don't know what to say. That you would take notice of my meager efforts here leaves me feeling wordless. I know that you are one of the "big guns" here, and I am truly flattered. Thank you so much for your kind words GG. — Ched : ? 02:51, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

I just came here to say exactly the same thing, which I did with a twee bit of wikilove below. It's very hard to wade through a sewer and not come out smelling of crap, but you've managed. Worm · (talk) 11:43, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

The qualities of an editor are defined by the quality of their edits: you've made some very good edits here, and I am pleased to see that I am far from being the only editor who has noticed. Geometry guy 23:26, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

thank you GG. I figure I still have tons to learn, and a long way to go - but I'll keep plugging away at it. :) — Ched : ? 23:35, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Civility Barnstar
	I've been reading through the whole Christmas fun on civility (since I've been away for a bit). From what I've seen, almost everyone has acted in a way I'm not impressed with, but the way you handled the comment which sparked all of this off was a diamond in the rough. Kudos Ched, I'm glad there are people like you on WP. Worm · (talk) 11:41, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Strong support, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:45, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Support, -Buster Seven Talk 15:46, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

thank you so much folks .. I honestly don't know what to say. There are just so many great folks here ... I feel honored just to be a part of such a great group of folks. — Ched : ? 20:08, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Support even though I don't know what's going on. I do know that you are a civil person :) — Huntster (t @ c) 22:14, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

lol .. thanks Huntster. Not really sure how I got into that huge discussion myself. I really need to be hanging out with you at articles more I think. :) — Ched : ? 23:16, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Strong support and OOH RAH, Yea team! VERY well deserved! PumpkinSky talk 23:19, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

lol .. thanks PS. :) — Ched : ? 23:24, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

PA

(As in "NPA".) Isn't this a bit of an overreaction? First, you refer to WP:NPA, but that's mostly about attacking one's addressee. Secondly, the writer doesn't refer to the politician as an asshole, a wife-beater, a cheat, a scumbag, a crook, a phoney, or a moron; or in the pay of Israel, "Islamofascists", or the tobacco business; or a puppet controlled by Bilderberg, the "Illuminati", Cheney, extraterrestrial reptiles, etc -- he merely calls him "abhorrent". True, this hardly indicates the dispassionate stance needed for encyclopedic writing, but it also hardly strikes me as a personal attack. (It also may be useful as an indicator that this editor isn't or can't be dispassionate.) -- Hoary (talk) 12:55, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

I realize that the subject matter is quite polarizing, and that many folks have strong views on Santorum; but that does not give us leave to refer to others as "abhorrent". I could have and should have also linked to WP:BLP as well, and if you will note: I did not go and chastise the editor. I simply removed the offending remark. If you feel it is acceptable to refer to others as "abhorrent", then I'm not really sure what more I can say here. If you wish to revert me and restore the original "abhorrent Mr Santorum" than I will certainly not try to remove the comment again. I saw what I thought was an offensive personal attack on another living person, so I removed it. I don't have any desire to fight, edit-war, or create any major drama about it though. Feel free to revert at will - and thank you for notifying me of your objection to my actions. cheers and best, — Ched : ? 13:13, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Oh, the number of people who abhor Santorum should be beside the point; people should have no more or less right to call him abhorrent than to call Romney or Obama abhorrent. (My guess, though, is it that isn't beside the point: consider how little worry there seems to be about what's on, say, Talk:Robert Mugabe.) What does it mean to say that somebody is abhorrent? Something like "I abhor him and a lot of other people do too". If that's on the right track (and it's only my first approximation), then it doesn't seem an attack to me; rather, it's a statement of and about strong dislike. -- Hoary (talk) 13:57, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

I think for me the distinction lies in the specific way the word is used. If one says "Mr. Santorum's politics, (or statement) is abhorrent" then the adjective clarifies an intangible (his politics or his statement) If one says that they "abhor ", then they state their own personal (and subjective) feelings toward a subject. But when a person uses the sentence structure: BLP doesn't cover this, since there is no false information about the abhorrent Mr Santorum. - then clearly (in my mind) the word "abhorrent" becomes a direct and deliberate attempt using the adjective to suggest that the person is inherently "abhorrent" ie: loathsome - odious - detestable - abominable - loathful. If that is not a personal attack on someone - then I'm sorry, I don't know what is. Regardless of any political inclinations here, can you honestly draw no distinction between these things? I may abhor Obama's political agenda. I may abhor the impact he's had on the US. But I can NOT say he is an abhorrent person on Misplaced Pages. BLP, NPA, and CIV simply forbid that kind of thing.

Ya know - there's a case going on now up at arbcom regarding language and civility. And for the most part we frown on people who do call others (to use some of your own words) "asshole, a wife-beater, a cheat, a scumbag, a crook, a phoney, or a moron..." (toss in a few of the more base and crass ones there and we could really have a blast here). But if it's going to come down to a ruling at Arbcom that we can not call people things like "c*nt, ass, c*cks*cker, etc.", but that it is perfectly fine to degrade and insult others so long as we use nice pretty words like "abhorrent, loathsome, odious, or detestable" then you set the entire site up for a class-warfare schism that many will not want any part of. (myself included).

I will be glad to take a look at the Mugabe stuff tonight. — Ched : ? 14:31, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, we do indeed frown on people who call others assholes, wife-beaters, etc -- and rightly so (with the minor exception, I suppose, of those people who have been convicted of beating their wives or who have confessed to having beaten them, etc etc). To say that somebody is "abhorrent" is, I'd say, very different -- and as a description of undesirability it's tolerable (though not to be encouraged) when that person not only is a public figure but is also openly participating in what is very much a popularity contest. If somebody were to refer to you as "abhorrent" on a talk page, I'd probably leave it but have word with him either there or on his talk page. If on the other hand he referred to you as an "asshole", I'd "redact" it and give him an earful; a repeat would earn him a block. ¶ Well, perhaps you and I disagree on what is and isn't degrading. -- Hoary (talk) 02:52, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Isn't that what civility blocks are all about? BLocking someone because there's disagreement about what is what?PumpkinSky talk 02:55, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

No it isn't what they are all about. -- Hoary (talk) 03:11, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Sure it is. Go look at the Malleus arbcase. PumpkinSky talk 03:15, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

This? Yes, I looked at it. I released my cursor here and there within it, and read the surroundings. They looked interesting and intelligent, not least among them the comments by our genial host Ched. I also very much like the idea of "Malleus incivility birthday bingo"; time willing, I'll try it out. But read all of that stuff? Sorry, no. "This user is not an arb and does not wish to be one." I'll wait to read the results. Unless perhaps I'm ~~canvassed~~ asked to read some particular part within it. -- Hoary (talk) 09:26, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

I will be away tomorrow ... but I will reply when I get back. — Ched : ? 05:36, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Only if you're in the mood to do so. No offense taken -- and certainly no gloating ("Wee-hee, I got the last word!") -- if you don't. There's so much else to be done. In the meantime, let me (again) reassure you that I do not intend to encourage the use of "abhorrent" or similar. -- Hoary (talk) 09:26, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Learning

You mentioned "learning" in the edit summary for the above. I would like to expand my vocabulary and asked for a few words in their context, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:34, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Thank you!--Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:47, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Malleus Incivility Birthday Bingo: (May 9)

I Win!!! RfC on PBS link ... naaa .. that won't work - there were more supports for Malleus than any other section.
A Chinese whore from Mars .. naaa .. he was talking about himself.
River Don Navigation ... naaa .. that was getting an article up to GA status.
Richard Basset (royal justice) ... nope again - another "improve the article to GA" thing.
Phoronid ... drat .. another GA
Golondrina point awww come on now - how many Ga articles can one person do in one day?
talking to an admin about his RfA .. oh wait .. it's a compliment.
hmmmm .. well considering he was one of 63 opposes - might have to call this a wash.
I Win a BN discussion. hmmmm .. wait a second - let me think about this one a bit..... (meh - he disagreed with ME - so I win!)

So - on this day in history, Malleus voiced the most supported view at a RfC, complimented one admin., opposed an RfA, pointed out an inconsistency at WP:BN, and took 4 articles to GA. Quite some days work I'd say. — Ched : ? 17:18, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

I supported the SoV RfA.

For the record

Dan Savage is an internationally syndicated columnist whose work has appeared in dozens of markets for over twenty years. He has had five books published by major publishers; one of those books served as the basis for an award-winning musical. He launched the It Gets Better Project, which drew the personal participation of the President of the United States (among many, many others). He may not be 'Walter Cronkite, Edward R. Murrow, or Rupert Murdoch', but he's never claimed to be (and really, categorizing Murdoch with Murrow and Cronkite? Murdoch is not a journalist. Murdoch employs journalists). That doesn't make him less of a significant or influential figure; he's well past '15 minutes'.

I would also point out that Mr Savage's distasteful neologism says nothing whatsoever about homosexuality. DS (talk) 20:21, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

You are absolutely correct, and I apologize. I have re factored my statement. — Ched : ? 23:04, 5 January 2012 (UTC)