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Revision as of 22:00, 12 March 2007 editTonyTheTiger (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, File movers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers400,572 edits →Summary: expand summary← Previous edit Revision as of 22:04, 12 March 2007 edit undoTonyTheTiger (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, File movers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers400,572 edits →Proposed format: sample voting editNext edit →
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| ] was the last major battle in the ] between the military forces of France and the Vietnamese revolutionary forces called, ]. The battle culminated in a massive French defeat that effectively ended the war. | ] was the last major battle in the ] between the military forces of France and the Vietnamese revolutionary forces called, ]. The battle culminated in a massive French defeat that effectively ended the war.
It is an amazing part of Military History. (]) It is an amazing part of Military History. (])
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|Date tagged <nowiki>{{FAN}}</nowiki> |Date tagged <nowiki>{{FAN}}</nowiki>
| A "]" is a person whose parent(s) served full-time in the ] during the person's childhood. Conventionally, the word "]" is ]; in a military context, however, it is neither a subjective nor a judgmental term. It is a term in which the military community takes pride. (]) | A "]" is a person whose parent(s) served full-time in the ] during the person's childhood. Conventionally, the word "]" is ]; in a military context, however, it is neither a subjective nor a judgmental term. It is a term in which the military community takes pride. (])
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|Date tagged <nowiki>{{FAN}}</nowiki> |Date tagged <nowiki>{{FAN}}</nowiki>
| ] is a retired American professional basketball player who played center for the ]. A five-time ]ee and a twelve-time ], Russell was the centerpiece of the Celtics dynasty that won eleven league championships during Russell's thirteen-year career. (]) | ] is a retired American professional basketball player who played center for the ]. A five-time ]ee and a twelve-time ], Russell was the centerpiece of the Celtics dynasty that won eleven league championships during Russell's thirteen-year career. (])
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:Battle of Dien Bien Phu, Calvin Coolidge, Arctic Tern ] 09:55, 10 March 2007 (UTC) :Battle of Dien Bien Phu, Calvin Coolidge, Arctic Tern ] 09:55, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
:Bill Russell, Charles Darwin, The Simpsons ] <small>(]/]/])</small> 16:26, 11 March 2007 (UTC) :Bill Russell, Charles Darwin, The Simpsons ] <small>(]/]/])</small> 16:26, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
:Battle of Dien Bien Phu, Bill Russell, Military brat (U.S. subculture) ] 22:55, 12 March 2007 (UTC)


==Survey== ==Survey==

Revision as of 22:04, 12 March 2007

It has been proposed below that featured article procedures be amended.
Discussion to support or oppose the amendment should be on the proposal page, under the heading "Survey". If, after a few days, a clear consensus for the amendment is reached, please notify the administrators noticeboard for further assistance.


Month End Promoted FAs awaiting FA dates
28-Feb-07 101
31-Jan-07 97
31-Dec-06 101
30-Nov-06 103
31-Oct-06 85
30-Sep-06 81
31-Aug-06 78
31-Jul-06 67
30-Jun-06 51
31-May-06 38

Source Misplaced Pages:Today's_featured_article/requests

Given the problem with the growing backlog, the main page FA process needs to be changed to

  1. fairly accommodate an FA production rate of more than 30/month;
  2. fairly accommodate a large backlog of promoted FAs;
  3. fairly accommodate a continually increasing FA production rate;
  4. fairly include a desirable pool of selectors for main page FAs;
  5. be a positive experience for as many participants as possible (by introducing them to other articles, introducing them to new techniques such as wikitables, etc.);
  6. appease those whose hard work in the FA promotion process does not result in a main page FA.
  7. retain the integrity of WP:FA, WP:FAC, and WP:FAR.
  8. uphold the collaborative values of wikipedia (especially pursuit of betterment of the encyclopedia).
  9. ratain the support of the majority of those involved in the process and not just a select few trying to WP:OWN the process.

Summary

The chart above using data from Misplaced Pages:Today's_featured_article/requests documents a problem that is resulting from extremely successful WP:FA production. Statistics at Misplaced Pages:Featured article statistics are deceptive because ΔFA = new FA promotions - FAR demotions. Thus FA promotion growth which is causing the backlog is not shown. Obviously as the number of FAs grows the number of articles eligible for WP:FAR grows. Similarly, as wikipedia grows FA production grows. However, the difference may seem constant. The backlog growth over the last 9 months points to this fact.

Furthermore, currently, more distributed and democratic processes seem to dominate wikipedia through vote, comment, and administrative duty at WP:ITN, WP:DYK, WP:SA, WP:FLC, WP:FPC, etc. WP:FAC and WP:TFA are clearly unusual in having a "tsar". In fact, both have the same one. This is not a quorum on his productivity or success as manager of two time consuming processes. This is an attempt to reevaluate one of these important processes and bring it up to date.

Below is my proposal to refine the main page FA selection procedure to account for the huge backlog of FA class articles at Misplaced Pages:Today's_featured_article/requests and for the continuing growth of Misplaced Pages which is likely to lead to a regular pattern of more articles being promoted to FA class status than there are days in the month. I propose that as soon as April 1st this policy be instituted. In short, the procedure would be to have 4 FA statuses (WP:FAC, FAN, FFAN or FA) in addition to FFAC. The two new statuses, FAN and FFAN, are specifically for featured article class articles that have not become main page FAs. This class will eventually be a large proportion of successful FAs as wikipedia grows. These statuses do not affect statuses associated with WP:FAR. The current FAC status would be a status where articles are evaluated based on general policy guidelines for worthiness just as it is now. From there candidates either become FFACs or FANs. FANs could then attempt to become FAs or become FFANs.

Proposed format

Procedure

Any eligible FAN may be nominated below to become main page FAs. Add the proper information following the format below. FANs should be listed in reverse seniority order with the most recently promoted articles listed first. With rare exceptions, images are limited to 100px. Depending on the number of calendar days in the following month between 28 and 31 top vote getters will advance to main page FA status. The next 30 top vote getters (and all those tied for 30th runner up) will retain FAN status and again be eligible next month. All articles promoted during the current month will retain FAN status and again be eligible next month. All other articles will become FFANs and will not be eligible for renomination for another year. An article must receive at least one vote from someone other than its nominator to retain its FAN status in any full month of eligibility.

All nominating users must vote for three articles (likely their own nominee and two other articles). Any other registered user may also cast three votes. Voting runs from the beginning of the month through the twentieth day of the month. Simply type your nominee votes in the Votes section below. Then increase the vote count for each of the articles in the nominees section that you have voted for by 1. Reciprocal voting (where 2 parties mutually agree to vote for each other’s nominees without considering the merits of other articles) is discouraged. Any indication of reciprocal voting (as determined by an administrator) especially from user talk pages will cancel both votes. However, coincidental identical votes naturally occur (especially from members of the same WikiProjects). Also, canvassing will make a FAN ineligible for promotion and cause its candidacy to be delayed by one month. Friendly notices beyond those to WikiProjects on an articles talk page prior to promotion to FAN status would generally be considered canvassing.

The successful FANs will select their own main page dates in the following month’s queue based on their finish in the voting. The top 6 places choose their dates during the first 2 days after voting ends. The next 6 the following 2 days and so on until the end of the month.

FFANs are must wait to regain FAN status. They must wait one year from the close of voting. They must have retained FA class status. They must confirm support from the majority of those who supported their original FAN status. All FANs would be subject to FAR procedures.

Nominees (sample layout)

Image Featured Article Nominee Nominating User Date of FAC closure Nomination (50 words or less) Vote Count
File:Dien Bien Phu.jpg Battle of Dien Bien Phu FooYu Date tagged {{FAN}} Battle of Dien Bien Phu was the last major battle in the First Indochina War between the military forces of France and the Vietnamese revolutionary forces called, Viet Minh. The battle culminated in a massive French defeat that effectively ended the war.

It is an amazing part of Military History. (more...)

7
Military brat (U.S. subculture) Balloonman Date tagged {{FAN}} A "military brat" is a person whose parent(s) served full-time in the armed forces during the person's childhood. Conventionally, the word "brat" is derogatory; in a military context, however, it is neither a subjective nor a judgmental term. It is a term in which the military community takes pride. (more...) 8
File:Bill russell 275.jpg Bill Russell FooFoo Date tagged {{FAN}} William Felton "Bill" Russell is a retired American professional basketball player who played center for the Boston Celtics. A five-time NBA Most Valuable Player Awardee and a twelve-time All-Star, Russell was the centerpiece of the Celtics dynasty that won eleven league championships during Russell's thirteen-year career. (more...) 9

Votes (sample layout)

Battle of Dien Bien Phu, Calvin Coolidge, Arctic Tern User:Foo 09:55, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
Bill Russell, Charles Darwin, The Simpsons TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio) 16:26, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Battle of Dien Bien Phu, Bill Russell, Military brat (U.S. subculture) User:FooBoo 22:55, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Survey

Add  # '''Support'''  or  # '''Oppose'''  on a new line in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~. Please remember that this survey is not a vote, and please provide an explanation for your recommendation.

Survey - in support of the move

  1. Support I believe that the current backlog of FA class articles vying for FA is getting unwieldy. Furthermore, as Misplaced Pages grows the number of days in a month or year does not. A procedure needs to be instituted to enable the FA promotion process to accommodate the growth in Misplaced Pages. TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio) 16:26, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Survey - in opposition to the move

Discussion

Add any additional comments:
  • Question for Tony. Can you please look at the change in FAs per month here (over the last six months, averaging 29 per month increase in FA count), and explain where this phenomenal growth and backlog you are concerned about is demonstrated? We need to have a large pool of FAs to choose from, to achieve variety on the main page. Again, it seems that several of us are struggling to see where the problem lies. Further, a significant number of FA authors have no interest whatsoever in having their articles be subject to mainpage vandalization, and never request a mainpage date, so the total number promoted doesn't reflect any "backlog" on main page requests. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:29, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
    • There seems to be a disconnect on my part on the growing numbers at Misplaced Pages:Today's featured article/requests and the ΔFAs statistics here. Someone more involved in the process might better be able to explain the difference to me. It may have something to do with WP:FAR, but I am not sure. TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio) 17:59, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
      • Your statistics seem to say that for last 4 months, the TFA/R page has remained fairly steady at about 100 articles. That seems remarkably consistent with the other information that approximately 1 new FA has been promoted per day, and approximately 1 FA has been displayed per day, if you consider that most FA authors are interested in seeing their article displayed. --AnonEMouse 18:23, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
        • Currently there are 112 items in the TFA/R queue. Yesterday there were 114. This does not mean that the TFA/R queue is shrinking. The longer trend is more important because for short periods the changes will be meaningless. TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio) 18:29, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
        • It is likely that ΔFA = new FA promotions - FAR demotions. The problem is that the majority of FA promotions will seek main page FA status. If we get to a point where there are 100 new FA promotions and 70 FAR demotions then although there would only be a ΔFA of 30, the main page backlog would increase significantly. TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio) 18:29, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Back to the "hard to understand" part, I guess. How will your plan reduce the backlog of articles waiting to be displayed on the main page? --AnonEMouse 18:40, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
    • Each month the process will select 30 new mainpage FAs and reduce the backlog to 30 holdovers plus all midmonth promotions. All other articles would be ineligible for mainpage FA status for a year. For example, if the process were enacted today with the 112 candidates vying for the mainpage, 30 would be chosen, 30 would be held over for reconsideration for next month and the remaining 52 would be deemed not of sufficient interest to those concerned about main page content. TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio) 19:34, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
      • Wow. No offense, but that's a really bad idea. A lot of effort with the end result that 50 perfectly fine articles are banned from even asking to appear on the main page merely because they were in line at a time when the line was long? --AnonEMouse 20:02, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
        • Perfectly fine is one term that could be used, but FAs that are below average in interest to those concerned with main page content would be another. I don't have the stats, but the FA production is only going to grow. It will probably not be long before 100 new FAs a month are promoted. There will continue to only be 30 days in a month. My proposal does not ban FAs forever. Unsuccessful FANs are given a fair judgement that given the current backlog, the constant production of new FAs and distribution of interests of those concerned with main page content, their articles are not likely to reach the main page for some time. As a result they should not trouble themselves with attempting to get on the main page for a year. This will lessen the hassle that Raul has to deal with of choosing FAs. It also distributes the responsibility more in keeping with wikipedia philosophy. TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio) 20:59, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
          • The stats were given above, and I think you even claimed to have looked at them: Misplaced Pages:Featured_article_statistics. They say there have been consistently between 15 and 45 new FAs per month for the last 3 years. Most ever was in 2004. No sign of exponential growth yet, unfortunate as that may seem. If you have a way to improve that, we're all listening. As for Raul being overworked, you specifically asked him as much on his talk page, User_talk:Raul654#General_FA_procedure and he was not in agreement. I'm not going to drop my mop on this proposal after just one day, but I clearly see where Sandy is coming from in wanting this to be marked a failed proposal. --AnonEMouse 21:12, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
            • Did you understand this equation: ΔFA = new FA promotions - FAR demotions? You are calling ΔFA "new FAs" for some reason. Is the equation confusing to you? TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio) 21:22, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
            • P.S. It would be easy to co-manage the FAC and FAR processes so that ΔFA appears constant.
            • P.S.S. I don't recall asking Raul about being overworked. Please point me to the edit. TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio) 21:44, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
              • It would be easy to co-manage the FAC and FAR processes so that ΔFA appears constant. What does that mean? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:37, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
                • It means that articles are removed at a pace to counter growth in FA production so as to make ΔFA appear constant.
                  • I see. In other words, there's a conspiracy to keep ΔFA constant. Well, since I'm somewhat active at both places, I'm hoping you can fill me in on who's running this "co-managing" thingie that's going on between the two rooms; I'd like to know who I'm working for, and what the goal is. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:51, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
          • This will lessen the hassle that Raul has to deal with of choosing FAs. Is Raul hassled ? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:37, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
      • Yikes, that's also worse than I thought. How do we speedy end this thing? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:06, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
        • Also, the current FAC column is misleading. If at the end of the month there are 50 FACs, there may have been 200 over the course of the month. (I think my Masters in Statistics is kicking in here). TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio) 18:36, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I am struggling to work out what problem this proposal is seeking to address, let alone how it would solve it.

PROBLEM We are producing new FAs faster than we can put them on the main page and the rate of new FA production is growing (do not be fooled by the net ΔFA) The problem is the gross new production of FAs before netting out FARs. Thus, there is a long and growing backlog of articles. TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio) 21:20, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
  • There are lots of featured articles, and the number increases month by month. This is a good thing, not a problem.
  • There are lots of featured articles that have not appeared on the Main Page. Since all Main Page featured articles have to come from the stock of featured articles that have not been on the Main Page, a sizeable stock is required to ensure variety on the Main Page. This is a good thing, not a problem.
  • There is a backlong of requests at TFA. Is this a problem? Perhaps they will one day appear on the Main Page; perhaps they won't. To be honest, I suspect this page is more a way of allowing the authors of a new featured article some sort of outlet, and preventing them from hassling Raul654, than a mechanism for choosing the Main Page featured article.
  • Raul654 decides which FACs to promote, and which featured articles will appear on the Main Page. Clearly it makes sense for someone to make those decisions, but it need not necessarily be the same person for both tasks, nor need it necessarily be just one person for either of them. More distributed and democratic processes seem to dominate at ITN, DYK, SA, FLC, FPC, etc., and FAC and TFA are clearly unusual in having a "tsar". But is it a problem? -- ALoan (Talk) 20:17, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
    • My proposal does not affect the FAC promotion process, which probably should be more decentralized as well, but I won't approach that. I am not saying the procedure is not operating pretty well. I am saying that in time there will be growing frustration with the current process. I am proposing an institutional change which will give nominators feedback on the general desirability to a wide electorate of wikipedians of their articles for prompt main page inclusion. It will also take much of the mystery out of the selection process. TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio) 21:20, 12 March 2007 (UTC)