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On 19 September 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to Death of Hardeep Singh Nijjar. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

Requested move 19 September 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. Leaning not moved. Noting that this should've been speedy not moved per WP:SK#6. No prejudice against a split discussion, but keep SK6 in mind. (closed by non-admin page mover) CLYDE /_{STUFF DONE} 15:59, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

Hardeep Singh Nijjar → Death of Hardeep Singh Nijjar – This recently deceased person appears to notable for his death and the aftermath and is therefore a WP:BLP1E. The article being created posthumously I believe is evidence of this. The scope of the article should therefore be on the death and aftermath, not of the person, which is liable (and has already been) WP:ATTACKed by POV-pushers. Move to "Death/Killing/Murder/Assassination of ..." (not fussed over the wording). ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)  17:55, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

@GhostOfDanGurney Support - per nom. MaplesyrupSushi (talk) 18:26, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

Oppose There seems to have been a reasonable amount of coverage of Nijjar before his murder going back to 2016 so I’m not sure if BLP1E applies. Here are some examples: There is also a larger amount of coverage in Indian sources which, to me, often don’t seen reliable but demonstrate wider notability before his murder. Vladimir.copic (talk) 18:29, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

I'm not sure if many Indian sources on this subject could be reliable given the sensitivity of the issue. Regardless, people are primarily searching for his name on the internet because of the diplomatic row his death has caused. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)  18:46, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

Yes, of course people are Googling this more now because of the murder. My point is that Nijjar, and to a certain extent the diplomatic row around him, was notable before the murder and therefore isn’t BLP1E which is the argument for moving the article. I’ve provided four non-Indian sources demonstrating this from a very quick Google. Vladimir.copic (talk) 18:56, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

Oppose, large number of sources covering Nijjar before his death, and per CapnJackSp. 🔥Jalapeño🔥 06:28, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

Oppose Too soon to create a separate article. Also I am not convinced with the POV-pushing examples given by the nominator.

Can you give us examples of attacks by POV-pushers? Wrythemann (talk) 18:52, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)  19:00, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

How is that POV pushing? CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 21:44, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

Yeah - we now have the New York Times stating the same. Not POV. Wrythemann (talk) 23:13, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)  19:00, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

This seems borderline. If you read the source provided it does allude to this. Wrythemann (talk) 23:14, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

Oppose - He isnt just notable for the death, he has featured in quite a few wanted lists earlier also and was a known separatist leader. Coverage of this exists, and so BLP 1E isnt valid in this case. Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 19:03, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

Oppose If anything would made, the thing should have been made would be separate pages as Hardeep Singh Nijjar by himself with his past life has enough encyclopedic information to make an entire page while his assassination, death and investigation of this crime scene is an entire different set of information. Cactus Ronin (talk) 19:07, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

• Speedy close as moot; I have created Death of Hardeep Singh Nijjar. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)  19:08, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

Oppose - He seems to be a notable figure in the Khalistan movement prior to his death. Ironically, that seems to be what made him a target for assassination. Riposte97 (talk) 23:26, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

I have my doubts that it's even possible to expand the biography aspects of this article beyond a stub, if this article is not renamed and content is instead split into Death of Hardeep Singh Nijjar. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)  02:21, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

In any case, it may be prudent to wait a while, as I expect a great deal will be written about him in WP:RS in the days to come. Riposte97 (talk) 05:55, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

Support per nom and to cleanly separate notability problems. The notability of Nijjar apart from his death does not yet have a clear consensus (and is being debated in this very RfM), but there is clear consensus that Nijjar's death is notable. Let this article be about the consensus notable subject that prompted it to be created. If that makes room for an article on Nijjar himself then that’s good: let a consensus on the notability of Nijjar himself be determine by editors of an article about him. Moving this article will vastly simplify the difficulties of editors determining how to apply BLP appropriately. Since this article falls also under contentious topic sanctions, more clarity on how to apply policies will support the two goals of avoiding disruption to Misplaced Pages and off producing a quality article. — Saxifrage ✎ 16:33, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

@GhostOfDanGurney Come on, I mean Death of Hardeep Singh Nijjar is just a classic WP:CONTENTFORK… It gives no real additional information and isn’t needed at this stage. Maybe this needs a stand alone in the future but right now - no way. Vladimir.copic (talk) 19:39, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

I believe there is information than can be moved from this article to the other. Or you can otherwise expend it. I'm late for work now, though. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)  19:42, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

Soft Support - He seems best known for his death and murder, and the resulting international relations crisis. I note that the article was created two days after his death, not while he was living. That said, I could be convinced that he was notable prior to his death if shown significant coverage in WP:RS pre-dating his death on June 18, 2023.--Darryl Kerrigan (talk) 20:58, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

Oppose seems to me that WP:BLP1E doesn't apply here. I suspect there's already plenty of source material for an article about him. See eg Alexander Litvinenko who was low profile before his poisoning/death. We also have an article Poisoning of Alexander Litvinenko. Whether the current murder will become such a massive story is difficult to tell. Nigej (talk) 07:15, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose. Misplaced Pages is a work in progress; lots of articles on notable subjects have not been created yet. There are plenty of RS available covering the subject independent of his death. VQuakr (talk) 18:45, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

  There are four sources above as noted by Vladimir.copic. I am not sure those alone amount to WP:SIGCOV. Are there other RS you think we should be considering to demonstrate notability as distinct from his death? Darryl Kerrigan (talk) 20:17, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

• Support as per nomination Worldiswide (talk) 02:52, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose Hardeep Singh Nijjar had reasonable coverage before his murder going back to 2016 in both Indian and international news, as he was involved in many controversial activities before his death, including links to violent activities in India; and his public anti-India speeches in Canada. It seems to be a RACIST argument that WHITE Western Newspapers are Reliable and BROWN INDIAN Newspapers are Not Reliable. Anyone following Indian news knows that India has a respected Press and News media, which regularly criticizes the Ruling party on many issues. IT IS SAD that such an argument is even being put on Misplaced Pages. Disagree with GhostOfDanGurney on changing the title. Agree with Vladimir.copic that there was coverage even in Western media, which along with Indian media satisfies NOTABILITY and WIDE COVERAGE factors to keep the Current title.RogerYg (talk) 06:59, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

  I agree that the title should not be changed, but let's assume good faith. An anonymous username, not my real name 11:06, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

  What are you talking about? The four sources mentioned above which predate his death are Canadian or American. I asked above if there are other sources which demonstrate his notability before his death. If there are others you think we should consider, provide them. Of course we will consider them regardless of whether they are Canadian, American, Indian or British, etc...-- Darryl Kerrigan (talk) 12:53, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose Hardeep Singh Nijjar was notable during his lifetime, and the absence of a Misplaced Pages article until his death does not diminish his notability. He received coverage in reliable news sources, particularly from India, regarding his activities. While he may not have been notable to Western media and its audience until his death, he was certainly notable for Indian media and people. It would be a worthy attempt to create article about his death as events unfold and more sources provide coverage. But, his biographical article should be kept in my opinion. --Pavan santhosh.s (talk) 12:01, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose @GhostOfDanGurney, Changing the title is not recommended in this case. It is evident that WP:BLP1E does not apply to Hardeep Singh Nijjar. A significant number of reliable sources had covered Nijjar before his demise, and the absence of a Misplaced Pages article until his passing does not diminish his notability. Furthermore, Separate creation of Death of Hardeep Singh Nijjar is just a classic case of WP:CONTENTFORK and WP:TOOSOON. It provides no real additional information and isn't needed at this stage. Perhaps it may warrant a standalone article in the future, but not at the present moment. 150.129.164.197 (talk) — 150.129.164.197 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
• Mildly Oppose - While Misplaced Pages only paid attention to this person after his murder (too busy covering Taylor Swift and Star Trek?), it does appear that he was of some note beforehand for his separatist, etc., activities. If the "Death of" article has nothing new and different, perhaps that one should be axed for now. Piledhigheranddeeper (talk) 16:00, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

Serious review requested

Whole article has just become homepage for info surrounding his death and allegations by Canadian authorities. The article needs to be sanitized and only person-specific encyclopedic content should remain on this page. Also @GhostOfDanGurney has already created separate page for his death and allegations. Ankraj giri (talk) 20:01, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

This is exactly why I tried to change the scope of the article before creating the Death of... article, but was reverted. Fully agree that the BLP issues (re ent deaths still count under BLP policy) and POV issues need addressed asap. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)  20:06, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages allows Notable Neutral information with Reliable Sources, and there are sufficient Notable & Widely reported information that goes beyond the scope of the death. Anyway that will be decided above in the Request for move section, so no point discussing it again here. RogerYg (talk) 07:07, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

Request for Inclusion of Bipartisan Sources

I noticed that the article heavily relies on Canadian sources. While Canadian media outlets are undoubtedly credible, I believe that it is essential to maintain a balanced perspective by including sources that are neutral and bipartisan. 103.82.125.16 (talk) 20:25, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

The article currently includes sourcing from American, British, Canadian and Indian based news agencies. If there are other WP:RS covering this topic that you believe should be referenced or included, I encourage you to add them.--Darryl Kerrigan (talk) 20:47, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

Because the page is under semi-protection, if you have changes/sources you would like added, please make an edit request. Misplaced Pages:Edit Request Wizard/Protected can help you make the request, if needed. Thanks! ARandomName123 (talk) 20:54, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected Edit Request

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

• What I think should be changed (format using {{textdiff}}):

• Why it should be changed:

is the citation from CNN whose title highlights expulsion of Canadian diplomat by India. Although the preceding text talks about Canadian expulsion of Indian diplomat,it doesn't talk about Indian expulsion of Canadian diplomat. I believe both are very important events to add at the same place. Either both expulsions be added or none of them. Both carry equal weightage.

• References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button):

Vajrasuchika (talk) 01:41, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

References

1. https://edition.cnn.com/2023/09/18/americas/canada-hardeep-singh-nijjar-india-intl/index.html
2. https://twitter.com/MEAIndia/status/1704000754783265107

 Not done: According to the page's protection level you should be able to edit the page yourself. If you seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. ARandomName123 (talk) 01:53, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

I got it Thankyou! I'm not a frequent editor and didn't know that I could edit the page. Thanks for acting on the edit request. I'll remove the next edit request too. Vajrasuchika (talk) 04:01, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

It needs a new section for "The Killing of Hardeep Singh Nijjar"

. JohnnyPedro1998 (talk) 11:04, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

The section already exists. 🔥Jalapeño🔥 12:12, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

See the move discussion above.--Darryl Kerrigan (talk) 12:44, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

Add new "reaction" section

Add reaction like

Canada

• Liberal goverment politicians statement
• Opposition (Conservative) politicians statement

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/poilievre-trudeau-hardeep-singh-nijjar https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/conservatives-india-nijjar-politics-1.6973050 https://www.bcunitedcaucus.ca/2023/09/statement-from-kevin-falcon-on-the-assassination-of-hardeep-singh-nijjar/

India

• politicians statement

International

• USA
• Uk, Australia, China etc

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/9/21/why-canada-lacks-allies-support-on-claim-india-killed-hardeep-singh-nijjar 150.129.164.197 (talk) 16:08, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

Split content to Death of Hardeep Singh Nijjar

I am seeking consensus to split content related to the killing of the article's subject and aftermath including diplomatic incident to a separate article titled Death of Hardeep Singh Nijjar. His death has become a notable occurance due to the "unprecedented diplomatic row" (CNN) between Canada and India and splitting would foster further expansion of this content. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)  16:13, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

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