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:::There is no such determination in the link just a conjecture (and that conjecture is one of mixed reliability, the final comment is a listing of errors which was never rebutted so if you want to say that there was a consensus it was not towards reliability...) and that is a self published book so demonstrated neither that one of the authors is highly respected or a subject matter expert for wikipedia's purposes. ] (]) 20:40, 28 December 2023 (UTC) :::There is no such determination in the link just a conjecture (and that conjecture is one of mixed reliability, the final comment is a listing of errors which was never rebutted so if you want to say that there was a consensus it was not towards reliability...) and that is a self published book so demonstrated neither that one of the authors is highly respected or a subject matter expert for wikipedia's purposes. ] (]) 20:40, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
:::: If being considered reliable by numerous high-quality publications and being given numerous honors for being one of the top football historians - including the highest lifetime achievement award for football research by the ] (the top organization for football history) - does not make one reliable, then I don't know what the heck does. ] (]) 20:45, 28 December 2023 (UTC) :::: If being considered reliable by numerous high-quality publications and being given numerous honors for being one of the top football historians - including the highest lifetime achievement award for football research by the ] (the top organization for football history) - does not make one reliable, then I don't know what the heck does. ] (]) 20:45, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
:::::We require independent publication in reliable sources. You could win a Nobel and it wouldn't matter on wiki unless you've been independently published. I appreciate how proudly ignorant you are of that though. ] (]) 20:52, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
:::: And that last comment about the "errors" also lists the same "errors" in other reliable sources (PFR), so it's not like it's an error solely by PFA, but rather poor record keeping at the time by all sources. ] (]) 20:47, 28 December 2023 (UTC) :::: And that last comment about the "errors" also lists the same "errors" in other reliable sources (PFR), so it's not like it's an error solely by PFA, but rather poor record keeping at the time by all sources. ] (]) 20:47, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
:::::That couldn't possibly indicate that PRA was reliable, it could only indicate that PFR was not reliable. ] (]) 20:52, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

Revision as of 20:52, 28 December 2023

This is the talk page for discussing WikiProject National Football League and anything related to its purposes and tasks.
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To-do list for Misplaced Pages:WikiProject National Football League: edit · history · watch · refresh · Updated 2024-05-22

WikiProject National Football League was featured in a WikiProject Report in the Signpost on 20 November 2013.

More than a few missing NFL articles

This was archived, but I'm bringing it back for now
Since Hey man im josh asked to see a list of NFL players needing articles by games played, I'll be going through and listing here each NFL player with more than 10 games without an article (italics=20+;bold=30+;bold-italics=40+) - Through "Gus Fetz":

BeanieFan11 (talk) 00:02, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

I know, but Josh requested a list for ones with the most games – the "Articles to create" list includes people with low numbers of games – it also misses some players with large amounts of games. BeanieFan11 (talk) 00:55, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
Makes sense. I missed your comment above.-- Yankees10 00:58, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
Thank you for this @BeanieFan11! Misplaced Pages:WikiProject National Football League/Articles to create is very useful, but it doesn't tell us a lot beyond that a player's article is needed (unless you go the associated PFR links). I wanted to help out creating some articles but I also wanted to focus on ones that were most likely to survive if sent to AfD. While participation is not an indicator of notability it can be a useful place to start when trying to pick articles to create. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:20, 27 February 2023 (UTC)
Roger Anderson is interesting to me, as he transitioned from being a tackle in his rookie year to being a defensive tackle for his final 3 years. I'm going to work on his article. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:31, 27 February 2023 (UTC)
@Hey man im josh: I could find a few sources for you if you'd like (through Newspapers.com, or do you have that already?). Thanks for being willing to help! BeanieFan11 (talk) 14:59, 27 February 2023 (UTC)
Thank you for the offer @BeanieFan11, but I think I'll have enough in this case. Anderson is very easily notable given what I'm finding, including his participating in the CFL, induction into his college's HoF, and All-American status. I just need to put the work in =) Hey man im josh (talk) 15:13, 27 February 2023 (UTC)
Would it make sense to reformat the players section of Misplaced Pages:WikiProject National Football League/Articles to create to include this info? We could do columns with game played, PFR link, notes for claims to notability, etc. Hey man im josh (talk) 23:20, 27 February 2023 (UTC)
We could, but I feel that would just take way too much work. BeanieFan11 (talk) 23:23, 27 February 2023 (UTC)
Quinton Ballard next. BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:20, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
I'd like to suggest adding Bob Davis (American football, born 1914). They played in 49 games between 1938 and 1946 as a two-way player. They also led the league in punt return yards in 1944. PFR link here. Hey man im josh (talk) 17:34, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
Wow, I'm... really surprised that a player with such accomplishments as Davis is missing an article. If no one else will, I'll try taking on his biography later this month or maybe next month. BeanieFan11 (talk) 17:47, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
Commenting before this gets archived. BeanieFan11 (talk) 01:43, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
Found one with 67 games that appears article-less: Guy Roberts. BeanieFan11 (talk) 02:17, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
Another comment to avoid archive. BeanieFan11 (talk) 20:40, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
One more - I still intend on finishing this list at some point... BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:50, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Some NFL featured lists progress

For those who don't know, I've been working on making some of the annual stat lists into featured lists and I've recently ventured into working on team specific lists (specifically my Lions). I thought it would be interesting to share where we're at in terms of overall progress on a few sets of featured lists.

Team's lists are complete Team's lists are all (at least) prepped or nominated Article is prepped for nomination Work in progress
NFL featured list status by team
Team First-round
picks		 Head
coaches		 Seasons
Overall FL summary 21/33 22/33 14/33
National Football League
Arizona Cardinals
Atlanta Falcons
Baltimore Ravens
Buffalo Bills
Carolina Panthers
Chicago Bears
Cincinnati Bengals
Cleveland Browns
Dallas Cowboys
Denver Broncos
Detroit Lions
Green Bay Packers
Houston Texans
Indianapolis Colts
Jacksonville Jaguars
Kansas City Chiefs
Las Vegas Raiders
Los Angeles Chargers
Los Angeles Rams
Miami Dolphins
Minnesota Vikings
New England Patriots
New Orleans Saints
New York Giants
New York Jets
Philadelphia Eagles
Pittsburgh Steelers
San Francisco 49ers
Seattle Seahawks
Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Tennessee Titans
Washington Commanders

I currently have List of Detroit Lions first-round draft picks at WP:FLC, with List of Detroit Lions seasons prepped and ready for nomination once of my current nominations are processed (List of National Football League annual interceptions leaders is the other nom I have). Additionally, List of Seattle Seahawks seasons is currently nominated at FLC by @SounderBruce while @ULPS has gotten List of Baltimore Ravens seasons and List of Houston Texans seasons promoted recently.

I think it would be really cool if we could get a full set of these to featured status, though I realize it's unlikely and that I can't do it by myself. If anybody else wants to work on any of these I'd be happy to help out and give advice. Even if you just want to promote a list for your favourite team, that's fine too, I would just love to see progress made on more NFL lists. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:33, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

Not sure if I'll pick up the Seahawks coach list, but the seasons list FLC has stalled due to a lack of reviews. If anyone can drop a few comments, it'd be much appreciated. SounderBruce 20:09, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
Looks like the Chargers are covered already (I can take some credit for the 1st-round picks list). Harper J. Cole (talk) 00:04, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
Nice. I'm the one who made the Chargers list. I didn't realize you took it to FL! ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 00:36, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
Nice job people! Some of these are proving easier than I initially expected. I've got the Lions first picks one at FLC and the Lions season one ready, but I've also got the Jaguars first picks, Jaguars seasons, and Saints seasons mostly prepped with a bit of work left. I'm going to polish those 3 off though so they're fully ready to be nommed before moving on to another one. Then they'll just sit in my "to be nommed" queue for a bit til their time comes. Hey man im josh (talk) 00:44, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
Honestly, I think the Vikings one has been ready for years, but because of some daft rule that list articles for lists with fewer than 10 entries shouldn't be spun off from a main article, it was denied when I first nominated it. I reckon it would be an immediate promotion with a bit of tweaking now. – PeeJay 16:46, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
PeeJay, thankfully that is no longer a problem anymore. Put it up! List of Green Bay Packers retired numbers only has six items. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 17:04, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
@PeeJay: In the last FLC nomination, which you started, they mentioned generally wanting at least 10 items on lists, which this now has vs the 7 it had in 2009 when it was nominated. The Chiefs had 10 when it was promoted in 2008. Additionally, the table itself has been pretty beefed up and the article is over 10,000 bytes larger now. Between that and the Packers' retired numbers list, I think you should be fine. I say do some cleanup on the list and give it another shot. Hey man im josh (talk) 17:13, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Update

A few notes... Since I shared this table, I've nominated List of Detroit Lions seasons at WP:FLC. I've also prepped an additional 6 lists that I believe are ready for FLC nomination:

These lists cannot be nominated until my active FLCs are reviewed, but I wanted to get as many ready as I could in the mean time. I've had one person take me up on the offer to work on these lists, and we're working on List of Chicago Bears first-round draft picks. Additionally, I've highlighted the ones I prepped in the table and noted which teams are entirely completed. I'm still more than happy to work with anybody interested in taking on a list and helping promoting to featured status. I'm willing to work on-wiki with others, but I'd ideally prefer to go back and forth over Discord if that's an option.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Hey man im josh (talk • contribs) 16:54, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Hey man im josh, great work! One thing that should be considered as part of this is going through some of the older WP:FLs you have identified and making sure they are up to current standards. I have been slowly doing this for WP:PACKERS lists, and some of these that were passed as early as 2008 aren't in great condition (need inline cites, need accessibility in the tables, need expansion, need better Legends, etc). Just a note, but great work on the existing lists you have prepped! « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 17:06, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
Thank you @Gonzo fan2007! I've felt in a bit of a pickle regarding the state of some of these previously promoted lists, and I did notice and appreciate what you've been doing. I'll address them if they become nominated for featured list removal, but for the time being, I'm focused on upgrading lists that have don't have the FL classification yet. I thought about a featured topic, but I don't think there's one that can be made for NFL lists unfortunately. Hey man im josh (talk) 17:10, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Discussion at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject College football § Frank Howard: Is there more than one in AmF?

 You are invited to join the discussion at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject College football § Frank Howard: Is there more than one in AmF?. —Bagumba (talk) 06:32, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for NFL playoffs

NFL playoffs has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 19:27, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Super Bowl XLI

Super Bowl XLI has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 22:44, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Template:Did you know nominations/Buccaneers–Packers rivalry

If anyone is willing to do a quick review at DYK, the above titled article would be a great main page addition next weekend when the Bucs and Pack play each other! It would be appreciated :) « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 15:35, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Finally did it...

...one of my works is Today's Featured Article! BeanieFan11 (talk) 00:23, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Congratulations! Harper J. Cole (talk) 00:29, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
Well deserved recognition. I was so pleasantly surprised to see it just now :) Keep it up! « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 01:14, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
Great when Beanie!!! Looking forward to this being the first not the last knowing you ;) Hey man im josh (talk) 01:37, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
You did a very solid job on that article! Congratulations are certainly in order, if there was a Gatorade shower barnstar I would give you it. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 16:27, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Norm Glockson

You may be interested in the deletion discussion on Norm Glockson, a 1910s/1920s NFL and MLB player. BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:41, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Football America needs sources

Hello WikiProject NFL. The article Football America is listed under your WikiProject and is also one of the oldest unreferenced articles on the site. If anyone would be willing to take a look and add sources to the article it would be much appreciated. Tooncool64 (talk) 22:27, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

Ed Budde: Request

I would appreciate if someone would be willing to expand Ed Budde a bit in time to post his article at ITN; see discussion about him at Misplaced Pages:In_the_news/Candidates#RD:_Ed_Budde. Thanks. BeanieFan11 (talk) 00:16, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

Local stations for nationally streamed games

Over the last couple of weeks I've seen local stations being added to the game boxes and schedule tables for games that are streamed on Peacock or Prime Video. Previously we've only listed local stations for preseason games that don't have national coverage, and I've seen these changes reverted and have reverted some myself, but they keep getting re-added.

Since this is a relatively new thing I wanted someone else's opinions on this before removing local stations again. I think it's unnecessary clutter, even if all stations are removed after the season is over. KristofferAG (talk) 16:17, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

Somewhat related to this, I have done quite a bit of work in historical articles and some editors (or IPs) are adding networks to these tables. I agree that it is uneccesary clutter.-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 21:56, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
I'll add that I'm aware of WP:NOTTVGUIDE, which I think is another reason why we shouldn't be listing local stations at all. KristofferAG (talk) 15:59, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
Frankly, even listing the national network is TVGUIDE-ish. I'd remove them for all but broadcast-specific pages (e.g. List of Los Angeles Rams broadcasters) or special dedicated game pages like a Super Bowl, where the broadcast is significantly related. It's trivial info to place in a season schedule table or game summary. But at a minimum, we certainly don't need local channels in most tables. —Bagumba (talk) 17:01, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
I think it's worth removing network info from schedule tables per WP:NOTTVGUIDE, as you mentioned. If the info is sourced, I don't see a problem with adding it to game summary templates (i.e. {{Americanfootballbox}}), but not the schedule summary tables. – PeeJay 17:32, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
I don't personally think they're worth having in the game boxes either, but at least it's less distracting there than in the tables. KristofferAG (talk) 14:17, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
Is there a way to template the header of the schedule tables to discourage the creation of such information in tables? I don't necessarily mean go full template like college football for the whole table just something that could have team/team color for the season, Week, Date, Opponent, Result, Venue, (attendance is in many historical articles) in the header to standardize the tables both currently and historically? I would argue that putting the color of the weeks as the jersey combo can even violate WP:COLOR. I have been working on and off trying to standardize/modernize the formatting of historical season articles schedule tables, that is why I am asking these questions.-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 19:36, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

Oh no...

ProFootballArchives.com was shut down. That was probably my favorite football research tool. I used it for almost EVERYTHING relating to historical football. Now we've got 4,000 deadlinks to somehow fix and an enormous amount of lost info that exists nowhere else... ugh! BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:42, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

What the heck, they had tons of stuff no one else had. Hopefully, a lot of it is archived. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 17:29, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
That shouldn't be an issue for us, nothing which can only be sourced to them should be on wiki in the first place. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 20:31, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
Also this: "Thanks for the all kinds words about the Archives. I hope to make an announcement in the near future about what will happen to my data. It does NOT involve reviving the Archives web site." ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 17:33, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
I'm missing the reason why they're shutting down. What happened? Hey man im josh (talk) 18:07, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
I don't know either. I sent the website maintainer an email about it and he responded simply, "Yes, the website has been shut down. Apologies for the inocnvenience this has caused." ...sigh... I had used it on a near-daily basis for years, even going back before I edited Misplaced Pages. BeanieFan11 (talk) 18:15, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
Was ProFootballArchives.com ever actually a WP:RS? I'm not seeing anything which would indicate that this was ever a source which should have been used on wikipedia in the first place, let alone "for almost EVERYTHING relating to historical football." Horse Eye's Back (talk) 20:30, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
Yes, it has been discussed before and determined to be RS () - plus it was published by a highly-respected football historian. BeanieFan11 (talk) 20:36, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
There is no such determination in the link just a conjecture (and that conjecture is one of mixed reliability, the final comment is a listing of errors which was never rebutted so if you want to say that there was a consensus it was not towards reliability...) and that is a self published book so demonstrated neither that one of the authors is highly respected or a subject matter expert for wikipedia's purposes. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 20:40, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
If being considered reliable by numerous high-quality publications and being given numerous honors for being one of the top football historians - including the highest lifetime achievement award for football research by the Professional Football Researchers Association (the top organization for football history) - does not make one reliable, then I don't know what the heck does. BeanieFan11 (talk) 20:45, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
We require independent publication in reliable sources. You could win a Nobel and it wouldn't matter on wiki unless you've been independently published. I appreciate how proudly ignorant you are of that though. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 20:52, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
And that last comment about the "errors" also lists the same "errors" in other reliable sources (PFR), so it's not like it's an error solely by PFA, but rather poor record keeping at the time by all sources. BeanieFan11 (talk) 20:47, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
That couldn't possibly indicate that PRA was reliable, it could only indicate that PFR was not reliable. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 20:52, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
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