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:::I also agree with @]and @] ] 22:37, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
:::I also agree with @]and @] ] 22:37, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
::I also agree with @]. Regarding the developing part, in my opinion Romania has domains that are already very developed, such as the internet network system(one of the best in the whole Europe), while other economy areas require more concern and development. I believe that the statement that says that Romania is in transition between the developing/developed part is the most correct. ] (]) 23:39, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
::I also agree with @]. Regarding the developing part, in my opinion Romania has domains that are already very developed, such as the internet network system(one of the best in the whole Europe), while other economy areas require more concern and development. I believe that the statement that says that Romania is in transition between the developing/developed part is the most correct. ] (]) 23:39, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
:::Ergo Romania is developing...
:::*Important to note that User Mrazvan22/Razvan Valentin Marinescu is currently brigading Misplaced Pages from reddit (]), see the discussion below, and that warrants a big fat sanction.
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Let's settle with a geographical position for Romania (once again)
The user @Retois has been changing for the couple of last days the position of Romania in Europe, declassifying it completely as a country with ties in Central Europe, deciding on his own to mention it being only as part of Eastern and South-Eastern Europe
This has been discussed several times and it was decided to keep Central Europe because 50% belongs both culturally and geographically to this region of Europe.
can we please settle this once and for good? Andymxm (talk) 09:05, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
Romania is situated in the southeastern part of Central Europe and shares borders with Hungary to the northwest, Serbia to the southwest, Bulgaria to the south, the Black Sea to the southeast, Ukraine to the east and to the north and the Republic of Moldova to the east.simple sourceMoxy-15:47, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
The source you provided puts Romania in southeastern Europe, not in the southeastern part of central Europe:
From it’s creation up until 18:14, 8 April 2018, this article placed Romania solely in southeastern Europe.
The user who made the edit described this as: rephrasing one sentence in the beginning of the article. The edit placed Romania in southeastern and eastern Europe.
At 01:04, 11 April 2018, the user made another edit described as: a minor linking edit in the beginning of the article. This edit put Romania in central Europe, as well as southeastern and eastern Europe. Shqian (talk) 08:38, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
Religion in Romania
This problem was brought up once before and settled, but someone misleadingly edited the table section again and it doesn’t correspond to the cited source and the article section about Religion in Romania. The table section says “9.0% no religion
5.7% unspecified” while the cited source and the article section say “Undeclared Religion, or indirectly counted (data missing)13.94%
Refused to declare 9%
Were not even asked this question 4.94%”. This error needs to be corrected once again. 2A02:2F09:1:8600:A0A6:4CC6:CC7D:20B1 (talk) 13:06, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
According to WP:BANREVERT, please revert anyone conflating those percentages into one lump. Not only are those edits wrong, but any bona fide editor who performs such edits is proxying for a banned user, which is prohibited. tgeorgescu (talk) 07:52, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
Just in case: some editors want to make the percentage of Christians higher, other editors want to make the percentage of irreligion higher, I don't want either, I want to preserve the uncertainty present in the census data. tgeorgescu (talk) 04:29, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 22 December 2023
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Disparity between the sources and the term used. In the third paragraph, it is mentioned “Romania is a developing economy”. However, the three sources mention the exact opposite (“developed”). 78.128.28.153 (talk) 21:12, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
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According to the sources given, Romania is a developed economy. By far, all the sources support the fact that the country is developed, including the GDP Per capita (nominal). It is time to accept it (for whoever keeps editing it).
Also, Transylvania is part of Central Europe, so the previous version of the page was more accurate.
There is a difference between "high human development" (e.g. Romania) and "very high human development" (countries traditionally considered "first world" countries). tgeorgescu (talk) 00:26, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
Hi! I know that, but Romania's HDI is classified as “very high”, with only Bulgaria having “high human development” from all the EU countries. 92.83.153.46 (talk) 13:28, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
That is not true. Romania is not recognized as being very high income, or an advanced economy. Romania isn't even part of the OECD. HetmanWL (talk) 04:32, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
May I inquire, @HetmanWL, why did you remove two references that I added, with the curt comment "Unreliable sources cited for Romania being in Central Europe removed"? The first reference ("Romania – a Central-European country") is from a scholarly journal article published by Radu Săgeată, a researcher at the Institute of Geography of the Romanian Academy, thus presumably a real expert on this matter, while the second ("Romania as a Case Study for a Dynamic Central Europe") is a report from the well-known strategic intelligence publishing company Stratfor. On what basis did you dismiss these two sources as being "unreliable"? Turgidson (talk) 06:27, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
Yes. Researchgate is not a reliable source, it's a hub pretty much anyone can publish in. Stratfor is a company for hire and not listed as a reliable source AFAIK, furthermore, the article doesn't state that Romania is Central Europe, it's about the Three Seas Initiative, the Bucharest Nine etc.
Consider Ukraine. Would you also say that it's at the crossroads of Central, Southeastern and Eastern Europe? It has Lviv (formerly Lwów), "culturally in Central Europe" which makes Ukraine a partly Central European country, right? No. Consider Bulgaria. It's plainly stated - Southeastern Europe. Consider Spain. It's plainly stated - Southwestern Europe.
Also User:Shqian made an interesting observation: "The source you provided puts Romania in southeastern Europe, not in the southeastern part of central Europe:" "From it’s creation up until 18:14, 8 April 2018, this article placed Romania solely in southeastern Europe." "At 01:04, 11 April 2018, the user made another edit described as: a minor linking edit in the beginning of the article. This edit put Romania in central Europe, as well as southeastern and eastern Europe." HetmanWL (talk) 10:12, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
Researchgate is not a reliable sourceHetmanWL, you don't get it at all. ResearchGate is not a source in the first place, it's a paper-sharing website. The Romanian Academy is the most prestigious and authoritative academic institution in Romania. Someone working at its Institute of Geography is definitively reliable. By the way, your examples like Ukraine are WP:OTHERSTUFF which shouldn't be affecting the discussion regarding Romania. Super Dromaeosaurus (talk) 12:37, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
Yes, that region of Ukraine is historically and geographically part of Central Europe. It's not about putting it in one SINGLE box, and in these cases one can mention 2 or 3 regions if needed. The leading paragraph allows one to say that Ukraine is a the "crossroads of Eastern and Central Europe". Razvan Valentin Marinescu05:16, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
I personally never edited anything related to Croatia. But it has to be noted that Croatia is included into Central Europe much more often (sometimes/rarely) than Romania (which is pretty much never). I think I'd use "Balkan" for Croatia still. The latest EU summit this month, concerning that region was called the EU-Western Balkans summit. Romania could be thought of as Eastern Balkans. But I digress. A look at the map is enough. HetmanWL (talk) 03:17, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
Croatia belongs to Central Europe as much as Romania does.
Transylvania and Bukowina sum up to be 50% of the country territory, just like Slavonia in Croatia, most governmental sources regard Romania as a country in the SouthEastern part of CENTRAL Europe, so denying both East and South-Eastern.
I think it's fair to hold an obiective approach because both geographically and culturally Romania has ties in Central Europe, whole or partially. Andymxm (talk) 07:58, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
It is not a personal opinion, it is a fact, a fact that most people agree to before countless times. Romania is not an omogenous country and each region belongs to a different cultural and Geographic group, therefore we shall classify it as such Andymxm (talk) 21:05, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
I also disagree with @HetmanWL and agre with @Andymxm. I think the previous formulation that Romania is at "the crossroads of Central, Eastern and Southeastern Europe" is the most representative and balanced towards all regions of Romania. Razvan Valentin Marinescu05:09, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
You're welcome to hold that opinion, dear Razvan Valentin Marinescu, unfortunately no institution puts Romania as a Central European country. Here on Misplaced Pages we're based on facts, not opinions or feelings. But we can all dream! HetmanWL (talk) 07:30, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
The point of this thread is to reach consensus, we're not going anywhere that way because it feels like it's one person versus everyone else, there are sources and maps placing Romania is Central Europe as well, at least culturally speaking, even the Romanian official touristic site places Romania in Central Europe.
Hey folks, I see there is a lot of talk regarding the region and much less about the developed/developing part. This has led to statements in the article which are simply not reflective of the sources used (references 20, 21, 22) of the currently protected version, so I would like to separate the two in order to more easily build a path forward.
For the developing/developed statement, my suggestion would be to go forward with a text that strictly reflects the sources, such as: The UN considers Romania as a developed country, while the IMF is still including it in the developing and emerging group.<ref>https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/WEO/weo-database/2023/April/groups-and-aggregates</ref> The country is emerging to be a middle power in international affairs (of course, better sources are welcome).--Strainu (talk) 22:43, 1 January 2024 (UTC)
Regarding the regions, I support the "crossroads" version. We definitively don't need "institutions" saying whether Romania is in a certain region or not, institutions like the UN have zero say over abstract topics like the regional subdivision of Europe. No instituion has any authority over this, and as long as we can find reliable sources attributing a region to a certain country I think we're fine.
Regarding the developing/developed I am pretty sure Romania is right now in the transition between the two, having recently been declared a World Bank high-income economy and being in the process of joining the OECD. I find it normal that some sources say Romania is still a developing country and others saying it is already a developed one, I think a good solution would be to mention both to reflect that currently there is no consensus or just use one of the two because it doesn't matter anyway as Romania will be universally considered developed in some years. Super Dromaeosaurus (talk) 12:31, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
I also agree with @Super Dromaeosaurus. Regarding the developing part, in my opinion Romania has domains that are already very developed, such as the internet network system(one of the best in the whole Europe), while other economy areas require more concern and development. I believe that the statement that says that Romania is in transition between the developing/developed part is the most correct. RaduGiurca12 (talk) 23:39, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
Ergo Romania is developing...
Important to note that User Mrazvan22/Razvan Valentin Marinescu is currently brigading Misplaced Pages from reddit (WP:CANVASS), see the discussion below, and that warrants a big fat sanction.
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I suggest removing the developed/developing country distinction from the last paragraph wholesale. HDI doesn't distinguish between developed and developing countries anyway. The IMF kind of does, and according to it Romania is an *emerging market*. I propose the last paragraph of the lede simply start with "Romania is a parliamentary republic" and continue as the lede currently stands: "and is emerging to be a middle power," or, in addition, it could be highlighted that Romania is classified as an emerging market. HetmanWL (talk) 19:55, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
You're welcome to hold that opinion, dear Razvan Valentin Marinescu, unfortunately no institution puts Romania as a developed country and the sources referenced do not correspond to what is written. Here on Misplaced Pages we're based on facts, not opinions or feelings. I'd also like to note that according to the IMF, Slovakia has a larger GDP (PPP) per capita than Romania, while all (Greece, Slovakia, Latvia) have a larger GDP (nominal) per capita. HetmanWL (talk) 07:27, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
You're welcome to hold that opinion, dear Razvan Valentin Marinescu, unfortunately no institution puts Romania as a developed country and the sources referenced do not correspond to what is written. Here on Misplaced Pages we're based on facts, not opinions or feelings. I'd also like to note that according to the IMF, Slovakia has a larger GDP (PPP) per capita than Romania, while all (Greece, Slovakia, Latvia) have a larger GDP (nominal) per capita. HetmanWL (talk) 07:26, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
Where did you get it from that high-income economy according to the World Bank stratification of the economies of the world = developed nation? HetmanWL (talk) 18:58, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
@HetmanWL here on Misplaced Pages we're based on sources. In the first source, Romania is declared as developed in the tables on pages 125, 135, 142 etc. Same in the other two. If you dispute the source, perhaps we should move towards a more specific statement, such as "The UN considers Romania as a developed country". Happy new year! Strainu (talk) 09:26, 1 January 2024 (UTC)
Mrazvan22 promotes a subjective POV of Romania
The mentioned user is encouraging Reddit user to contribute to Romania's talk page in order to promote a positive narrative of Romania: as a Central European country and as a developed country.
I think it's far from the truth assuming that the changes made by the given user are not in good faith. Reddit itself is not the place where you invite people to push agendas because nobody else outside the wiki bubble cares. Regarding the matter, both statements are correct, but it depends on which basis we refer to, because on a geopolitical and economical level Romania is a developed country, but it still lacks the IMF grade along with other Central European countries.
Regarding its position, the page indicated not a single region for many years because the country itself is not omogenous, with traits belonging to different cultural and geopolitical areas. It is not a country that you can put in a single region, most official classifications put countries in single regions for simplicity, both Croatia and Serbia use the same methodology, both countries belong officialy in Southeastern Europe, but they are commonly associated with Central Europe for historical and cultural reasons, moreover The territory of present day Romania is 50% belonging geographically and culturally to Central Europe ( see Carpathian Basin ).
Also this is very weird whitewashing of a totally explicit example of agenda-pushing. The user literally says that pushing a positive agenda will bring investors to the country. That is so brash and outrageous. 2A00:F41:1C6A:14BD:1CB7:F28A:4C40:FB8A (talk) 20:19, 1 January 2024 (UTC)
Agenda for what exactly? I was in favor of keeping the “exact same formulations” we’ve had in a stable manner for 1+ years, and which I didn’t introduce in the first place. If you look at the page history, I was not the one who introduced them, and neither who started disrupting this in December. I do however get upset when I see others trying to disrupt something that was good all along. Razvan Valentin Marinescu00:42, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
I am not making changes in bad faith. I posted on Reddit mostly to talk about narratives and other things, and indeed I mentioned the talk page here as an example of the argument I was trying to make there. As I wrote above, I didn’t start this edit war, and only reverted that’ll Romania page once (if I remember correctly) over the last month. I was in favor of keeping the same formulations we’ve had for more than 1 year (both for geographical position and for the developed/developing status). And I didn’t introduce any of those in the first place. I apologize if I mentioned the wiki edit war, I was initially trying to bring more voices here and there is nothing wrong with that. Yet I can see how it can be seen as whatever X or Y, so I will remove the mentioning about wiki from the Reddit post. Most of that dialogue wasn’t about this anyway. Hope this clarifies. Razvan Valentin Marinescu00:22, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
I also support to keep the stable version which was many years ago. I listed above arguments why parts of Romania is part of Central Europe. OrionNimrod (talk) 06:11, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
The stable version is the one which stood from the page's creation decades ago, describing Romania as Southeast Europe (as does Britannica and every other source), up until mid-2018 when it was changed baselessly and without a citation by a single user. Are you a sockpuppet of Razvan Valentin Marinescu/Mrazvan22? Or are you partaking in brigading from Reddit? 2A00:F41:482C:A7AE:D557:B614:639D:2B19 (talk) 09:05, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
I do not understand, if people don't agree with you they must be "partaking"? I think you are clearly getting offensive on other users with more "history" on wikipedia. None of the people here use reddit in the first place. I think you are the one who should be put down for the behaviour expressed. I rest my take Andymxm (talk) 09:59, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
If 1 million users say “the sky is blue” probably they are the sockpuppets of 1 user :):):) geography is a very general and easy thing. I do not like that behavior, when anonym ip users with obvious good wikipedia knowledge attack articles and real users. OrionNimrod (talk) 10:07, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
.svg){kind=small}
15:47, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
Done tgeorgescu (talk) 13:54, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
Note: Request moved below. Spintendo 22:52, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the