| Revision as of 23:54, 20 November 2014 editDmol (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers16,803 edits Undid revision 634760898 by 76.6.69.81 (talk) POV rant, BLP violation.← Previous edit | Latest revision as of 19:33, 9 February 2024 edit undoQwerfjkl (bot) (talk | contribs)Bots, Mass message senders4,011,967 edits Implementing WP:PIQA (Task 26)Tag: Talk banner shell conversion | ||
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| == Who Are the Most Powerful People in American Medicine? == | |||
| An interesting article: | |||
| * | |||
| Although Barrett is mentioned among what ] calls "a pretty impressive list of candidates", he concludes that the patient and physicians are the most powerful. -- ] (]) 02:40, 31 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
| == Busting the Quackbusters? == | |||
| Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Haley Fromholz wrote in 2001, that Stephen Barrett (quackwatch.com), and Wallace Sampson MD (Scientific Review of Alternative and Aberrant Medicine) "were found to be biased and unworthy of credibility." Peculiar that there is no mention of it here but rather sounds like a glowing POV-based review. | |||
| ] (]) 20:40, 1 June 2012 (UTC) | |||
| :If you'd like to propose an addition to this biographical article, please review our ] and describe the ] which would support your proposed content. ''']''' <sup>]</sup> 21:40, 1 June 2012 (UTC) | |||
| ::LOL, predictable. As someone who would want to keep Misplaced Pages honest you'd think you might make the addition yourself? If of course that's the goal here?] (]) 18:32, 28 June 2012 (UTC) | |||
| :::I haven't found any ] that would support such an addition. As you probably know, ] forbids using court transcripts in isolation as sources for biographical material, because it's very easy for an unscrupulous editor to quote parts of a court decision out of context. I thought maybe you had some appropriate sources for this material, since you brought it up. ''']''' <sup>]</sup> 19:18, 28 June 2012 (UTC) | |||
| ::::Judges are generally scientifically illiterate (your favorite expletive goes here)s, and are generally not RS. Their "peer reviewers" (appellate courts) uphold something like 98% of their decisions (remember Scopes and Darrow), and the burden is on disproving their findings of law (or of fact), the ''opposite'' of a scientofoc peer revoew. The RS New York Academy of Sciences and its peer review panel definitely does not agree with this judge re W. Sampson, since they published his "Antiscience" article re Alt Med as the peer reviewed defining article of their conference on "The Flight from Reason". - ] (]) 22:06, 26 November 2012 (UTC) | |||
| ] (]) 22:24, 11 April 2014 (UTC)Paul O ] (]) 22:24, 11 April 2014 (UTC) The information above is incorrect. The court said the WITNESSES were "biased and unworthy of credibility" not Barrett himself. | |||
| <ref>http://www.whale.to/a/barrett.html | |||
| == External links modified == | |||
| In its Opinion, the Court of Appeals agreed with King and | |||
| Negrete. Specifically, the Court of Appeals found that NCAHF | |||
| "presented no evidence that King Bio's products were not safe and | |||
| effective, relying instead on a general attack on homeopathy, made by | |||
| witnesses who had no knowledge of, or experience with, King Bio's | |||
| products, and who were found to be biased and unworthy of credibility"</ref> | |||
| Hello fellow Wikipedians, | |||
| == QPW as a source == | |||
| I have just modified {{plural:1|one external link|1 external links}} on ]. Please take a moment to review . If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit ] for additional information. I made the following changes: | |||
| Can someone who is well versed in this wikipedia editing put in some content using the references at quackpotwatch.org about stephen barret. the existing content of this article is very onesided with a strongly biased POV. ] (]) 22:51, 2 June 2012 (UTC) | |||
| *Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071103051137/http://new.thegoodwebguide.co.uk:80/index.php?rid=1772 to http://new.thegoodwebguide.co.uk/index.php?rid=1772 | |||
| *Added {{tlx|dead link}} tag to http://www.health.gov/scipich/ | |||
| When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the ''checked'' parameter below to '''true''' or '''failed''' to let others know (documentation at {{tlx|Sourcecheck}}). | |||
| : It is not considered a RS (except in its own fringe world). It is even blacklisted here because it has nothing reliable to say. Conspiracy theories are not good sources for facts. Its author is also blocked from editing here because he has behaved so badly. | |||
| {{sourcecheck|checked=false}} | |||
| : Any bias you note is because all reliable sources are positive toward Barrett (and ], which is another subject). We base our content on what RS say. If RS were critical, then we'd be happy to include such content, but it's pretty hard to find. What has been found has been included in this article. It is minor criticisms. -- ] (]) 23:32, 2 June 2012 (UTC) | |||
| Cheers.—] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">(])</span> 02:02, 11 November 2016 (UTC) | |||
| == Defamation == | |||
| The biography of this man seems very one sided, how come it's not mentioned that he was never licensed and failed a board certified test? Reliable sources are positive towards Barret? You mean like the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services? Sure, if you consider the US Government a reliable and trustworthy source...] (]) 23:08, 15 June 2013 (UTC) -- | |||
| :Nothing one-sided about it if you look at sources that are reliable, which means probably any US government source that would be appropriate to use for this article. | |||
| :Do you have new sources for us to consider, or current sources that you wish to discuss? Please note that claims and comments fall under ] and special ]. --] (]) 02:28, 16 June 2013 (UTC) | |||
| ::The statements suggested by Shadowmyst87 are not only unsourced, but the former is clearly false. He was licensed. We have evidence that he didn't ''pass'' a certification test, (but that was decided to be undue weight), but not that he ''failed'' a certification test. — ] ] 02:32, 16 June 2013 (UTC) | |||
| Why nothing about Barrett’s failed defamation suit against chiropractor Tedd Koren? It is relevant to his work. ] (]) 04:00, 15 March 2017 (UTC) | |||
| == WP:RTP move of discussion re Removal of talk page material from this talk page == | |||
| ''(The following comment was made on ParkSehJik's talk page, and was moved here by ParkSehJik --] (]) 19:21, 27 November 2012 (UTC))'' | |||
| == Psychiatric boards == | |||
| ParkSehJik, I noticed that you made an edit to a biography of a living person, ], but that you didn’t support your changes with a ]. Misplaced Pages has a strict policy concerning ], so please help us keep such articles accurate. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on ]. Thank you. <!-- Template:uw-biog1 --> | |||
| that Barrett "failed his psychiatric boards.” Is there a credible source to substantiate that claim? ] (]) 04:02, 15 March 2017 (UTC) | |||
| I went ahead and removed your aside on the talk page as a ] violation. Your personal opinion is that psychiatry is pseudoscience - It's irrelevant to the article. You then went on to bring up attacks on Barrett without a source. --] (]) 18:00, 27 November 2012 (UTC) | |||
| == Self-Sourced Content == | |||
| : <strike>- I did not know the BLP requirements for sources also apply to talk pages.<strike> Now I do. ] (]) 20:58, 27 November 2012 (UTC) | |||
| : - I have no problem with your removal, however, how can one call for finding sources in BLPs if one cannot state the as-yet-RS lacking assertions on the talk page? | |||
| : - My "personal opinion" as stated at WP is based on RS and MEDRS, and is not an opinion. It is a statement of the content of mainstream MEDRS sources. Try reading the sources upon which the assertions in the third paragraph of ] are based, and the . All I intended to do was restate the content of this RS information. :) ] (]) 18:55, 27 November 2012 (UTC) | |||
| ::Thanks for responding! You're a new editor trying to edit highly controversial topics. In addition to ], you should be aware that there are ] sanctions in place for the topics as well. You can look at the top of the article talk pages to find more about these sanctions. | |||
| ::I strongly suggest you leave these topics alone until you have a much better understanding of how Misplaced Pages works. Editing controversial topics will give you an extremely skewed perspective of Misplaced Pages, and gives you much less leeway in your editing. | |||
| ::If you want to continue trying to edit these articles, you should familiarize yourself with ], ], ], ], ], ], and ]. Again, better to leave the articles alone for awhile and edit where you can take a leisurely approach to learning the details of Misplaced Pages's many policies. --] (]) 19:18, 27 November 2012 (UTC) | |||
| ::Regarding , does this mean we're done here? I'm happy to answer your questions further, and as I've already foreshadowed, the answers will come from the policies listed. --] (]) 01:30, 28 November 2012 (UTC) | |||
| :::Thanks. My edits at alt med seem to have stuck, albeit they generated conroversy. I do have a question, peripherally related to my edit on this page that you correctly deleted. My edits at ], ], and ], were based on sources that are peer reviewed internationally recognized top journals in the field were dismissed at Wikiproject Medicine as violating "common knowlege". The edits were about a controversy whether psychiatry is medcine at all, and were well sourced. There is significant conroversy as to whether simply listing mental category classification criteria, and defining "out of the norm", allows the attachement of the term "disease" to the category (e.g., bipolar "disorder"). Further controversy is as to whether the categories have any reality at all (e.g., ]). Further, psychiatrists at Guantanamo do not treat disease. They help extract information, somtimes using "discomfort". That may be science, but it is not medicine. ''What policy or guideline allows "common knowledge" that psychiatry is pure medicine to trump the sources I provided?'' Also, what talk page may have more self-critically thinking kinds of editors who might participate in such discussion? ] (]) 01:50, 28 November 2012 (UTC) | |||
| ::::Look more closely over ] and ]. --] (]) 03:29, 28 November 2012 (UTC) | |||
| :::::Thanks, I will read them more thoroughly. How does FRINGE apply? It is not FRINGE that there is historically and currently possible nonsense and pseudoscientific reasoning basing much of psychiatry. Popper used it as paridigmatic of pseudoscience in Conjectures and Refutations. Empirical evidence for attaching the term "disease" to psychic categories "researchers" keep coming up with is entirely lacking. Forensic psychiatry is so far from medicine and having a scientific basis that there are a plethora of academic peer reviewed articles about calling its experts "whores". Criticism of attributing being outside the norm in a psychic category as indicative of "disease", often resulting in involutary treatment, is similarly widespread. Overprescription of anti-depressants is household conversation. Abuses resulting in conservatorships and involuntary commitment (for which the patient has to pay... if they can ever get out), is standard academic stuff in medical ethics discussions. The profit motive to find a disorder, and to regularly change medications, a guarantee bi-weekly or monthly income of i insured $50/15 minutes to rewrite each patients presecriptions, for life, for diagnosing bipolar, is almost unique to psychiatry. There is no known way to get '''un'''-diagnosed. Once placed on a ], even when made in error, for convenience, or by maliscious accusation of suicidal intent (SI), by an enemy, and the required involuntary hold and referal to a psychiatrist that results, results in removal of basic guaranteed rights for life, such as a second Amendment right to bear arms, or an ability to have a professino in law enforcement. These are not FRINGE ideas. I am mystified at the response to my mainsream MEDRS based edits as having less rationality in the deletions and arguments for them at talk, than argumentation by practitioner-editors in my alt med edits. ] (]) 03:45, 28 November 2012 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::No offense, but take a look at ] as well. Misplaced Pages may simply not be the place for most of what you're interested in discussing/furthering. --] (]) 03:52, 28 November 2012 (UTC) | |||
| Barrett appears to be the original source for many references which, according to Ronz via ] and ] violates several policies. A consistent editing policy seems necessary for both articles. Either interviews and articles are legitimate or they are not. Unless there's a WP:HYPOCRISY policy I missed? --] (]) 13:57, 9 January 2018 (UTC) | |||
| ==Institute for Science in Medicine== | |||
| He's on the board of Institute for Science in Medicine. I'm not sure it's worth mentioning without an independent source. His bio there might be considered as an external link if it offers substantial information not already in the article or already available from external links. --] (]) 16:57, 6 February 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :Berrett and many other ACSH lobbyists is members of that Institute, so why not mention it. Why not mentioning that Barrett SLAPP-suited anti-fluoride activist Darlene Sherellhttp:// http://www.paed.uscourts.gov/documents/opinions/99d0729p.pdf--] (]) 08:21, 6 May 2013 (UTC) | |||
| ::As I mentioned, an independent source is almost a necessity. See ]. --] (]) 16:16, 6 May 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :::Scratch "almost"; an independent source for the (alleged) SLAPP '''is''' necessary. In fact, the court decision doesn't mention SLAPP; the court stated it was a simple "statute of limitations" error on Barrett's part, and did not mention any SLAPP issues. | |||
| :::I'm not sure about ISM (or whatever the correct acronym is). Unless there is some doubt about his membership, or his membership would be controversial, the organization's or Barrett's web site should be an adequate source. I'm not sure whether it would be controversial. — ] ] 20:34, 6 May 2013 (UTC) | |||
| == Discussions about the status of QW (and thus Barrett) here at Misplaced Pages == | |||
| == Barrett v. Rosenthal == | |||
| For some odd reason, existing discussions have not been announced here, which is a big violation of our usual practice. There are two major places where participation is encouraged: | |||
| It seems strange that there is merely a link at the bottom of the article about , which is cited as a "landmark" Internet freedom case, but no discussion of it within this article. And there are reports of Barrett losing another defamation case of which there is no discussion. Both cases apparently relate directly to his "quackbusting" efforts. ] (]) 20:33, 4 September 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :Have you searched this Talk page's archive? ] <sup>]|]|]</sup> 22:25, 11 April 2014 (UTC) | |||
| * ] | |||
| == "Other activities" == | |||
| * ] | |||
| ] (]) 16:36, 5 November 2019 (UTC) | |||
| Is there any evidence that refers to the right Barrett? If so, please add it to the section. I'm going to move that section here until we sort this out. -- ] (]) 20:55, 14 June 2014 (UTC) | |||
| == Rule 11 Sanctions in "Quackwatch" Libel Case == | |||
| * <nowiki>Barrett is also a competitive swimmer who placed 1st, 2nd, and 3rd in many state championship events.<ref>{{cite web|title=North Carolina Senior Games 2009 State Finals Results|url=http://www.ncseniorgames.org/results09.pdf|accessdate=8/11/2012}}</ref><ref>{{cite web|title=North Carolina Senior Games 2010 State Finals Results|url=http://www.ncseniorgames.org/results20102.pdf|accessdate=8/11/2012}}</ref><ref>{{cite web|title=North Carolina Senior Games 2011 State Finals Preliminary Results|url=http://www.ncseniorgames.org/results2011.pdf|accessdate=8/11/2012}}</ref> In April 2012, at the ] meet in ], North Carolina, he won five medals, including two golds for men in the 75–79 age group. He finished 7th in the men's 50- and 100-yard ] events, third in the mixed 200-yard ] ], and first in the men's 200-yard freestyle and 200-yard ] relays. The men's relay results were faster than any time recorded in the U.S. in 2011.<ref>{{cite web|title=USMS Spring Nationals Results|url=http://www.usms.org/comp/scnats12/results/index.php?MeetID=20120426SCNATSY&ag=12&s=M&f=m12|accessdate=8/11/2012}}</ref></nowiki> | |||
| I'm not sure if there's anything worth using here, but someone else may think so, so leaving it here. -- ] (]) 01:59, 16 September 2020 (UTC) | |||
| I had to use nowiki code because there is apparently a blacklisted link in there! -- ] (]) 20:56, 14 June 2014 (UTC) | |||
| :Probably not without more coverage. Applies to ] as well. --] (]) 02:17, 16 September 2020 (UTC) | |||
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External links modified
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Defamation
Why nothing about Barrett’s failed defamation suit against chiropractor Tedd Koren? It is relevant to his work. Nicmart (talk) 04:00, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
Psychiatric boards
It is asserted that Barrett "failed his psychiatric boards.” Is there a credible source to substantiate that claim? Nicmart (talk) 04:02, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
Self-Sourced Content
Barrett appears to be the original source for many references which, according to Ronz via Naveen Jain and Naveen Jain Talk violates several policies. A consistent editing policy seems necessary for both articles. Either interviews and articles are legitimate or they are not. Unless there's a WP:HYPOCRISY policy I missed? --Lawfulneutral (talk) 13:57, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
Discussions about the status of QW (and thus Barrett) here at Misplaced Pages
For some odd reason, existing discussions have not been announced here, which is a big violation of our usual practice. There are two major places where participation is encouraged:
- Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Is Quackwatch an SPS and thus not allowed as a source on BLPs?
- Misplaced Pages talk:Reliable sources/Perennial sources#SPS and Quackwatch
BullRangifer (talk) 16:36, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
Rule 11 Sanctions in "Quackwatch" Libel Case
Rule 11 Sanctions in "Quackwatch" Libel Case I'm not sure if there's anything worth using here, but someone else may think so, so leaving it here. -- Valjean (talk) 01:59, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
- Probably not without more coverage. Applies to American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine as well. --Hipal/Ronz (talk) 02:17, 16 September 2020 (UTC)