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| How on earth can you have an article about twist endings without mentioning the Prisoner? | |||
| {{WikiProject Literature|importance=High}} | |||
| {{WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors |user=IrisWings |date=23 September 2007}} | |||
| }} | |||
| {{archive box|auto=long}} | |||
| == Proposed merge == | |||
| {{polltop}} | |||
| I've proposed a merge with other "ending" articles into one single article, '''Ending (literature)'''. Reasons and discussion can be found ] (scroll down until you see the listing). ] 10:32, 10 October 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :'''Oppose Meger''' - Resulting article would become excessivly long and pre-cede any GA or FA nomination ] ] 23:16, 19 October 2008 (UTC) | |||
| ==Comments== | |||
| :'''Comment''' that merger proposal is a year old. ] (]) | |||
| I did a complete overhaul of this article, adding in a section for plot devices used, expaning information for each section, adding many more examples, and more. --] May 09th, 2006 | |||
| {{pollbottom}} | |||
| == Merge all 'twist' articles == | |||
| *Added in photographs as well that matches the content discussed in the article. --] May 16th, 2006 | |||
| There's a dreadful article called ], and this fantastic article, ]. I'm inclined to say ] should be renamed ], and discuss twists in general. I don't see why "ending" should be the only area in which twists are discussed. While in many cases the ending is where the big twist occurs (''Planet of the Apes'', ''The Usual Suspects'', ''Fight Club''), a more generic discussion could be more useful. | |||
| It would further provide a justification for eliminating the terrible content of the aforementioned ] article. -] (]) 04:18, 22 July 2008 (UTC) | |||
| **If you add an example, please keep it '''ALPHABETICAL'''! Also, please keep spoilers to a minimum! --] May 17th, 2006 | |||
| : '''Oppose Merger''' - Two different topics a twist ending and a twist deserve distinguishment ] ] 23:14, 19 October 2008 (UTC) | |||
| ***Added many references and citations to the article to make it more comprehensive as well as to make the article compliant with the ''Misplaced Pages style guidelines''. See ] and ] for further information. -- ] June 29th, 2006 | |||
| :'''Support'''. The twists given in this article do not only apply to endings, indeed many are not about endings at all. Should be merged, and the resulting article have a section discussing the application of twists to endings - if there is anything special to say about them. I really donh't think many make any difference if the occur at the the end, or after 3/4 of the plot.] (]) 10:47, 20 October 2008 (UTC) | |||
| :::As the merge is not going along yet, i've stzarted removeing all the examples of twists that are not endings (eg, characters being killed at the beginning of a movie).] (]) 13:20, 17 November 2008 (UTC) | |||
| ==Diablo II== | |||
| Diablo II: when in Act I Maurius is visited by Tyryael who is thought to be Diablo, but is later revealed to be an archangel was actually trying to stop Diablo.-This statements is completly wrong.The real twist ending of Diablo II is that during the whole game Maurius is telling to Tyrael the story of how Diablo escaped and freed is brother.At the end it's revealed that its not tyreal who is his talking to but Ball(diablo brother) and he tricked him into giving him his soulstone. | |||
| :That was a great ending... and it's Baal. | |||
| -G | |||
| *''In Act I Marius is visited by the archangel Tyrael, but at the end of the game "Tyrael" is revealed to actually be Baal.'' | |||
| From the way this is worded, it sounds like Tyrael is actually Baal throughout the game, rather then just in the context of the cut scenes associated with Marius. Should we change the wording? ] 17:44, 12 May 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ==Citizen Kane== | |||
| I don't agree with the appearance of Citizen Kane in the list. It's unpredictable, but not exactly surprising, and it doesn't come out of nowhere. ] 22:43, 15 October 2005 (UTC) | |||
| :It does seem to meet the definition in the article. A twist ending should surprise, but should not come out of nowhere. A good plot twist should make sense: in retrospect.--] 04:52, 18 December 2005 (UTC) | |||
| =="Trick Ending"== | |||
| I forgot about this - I proposed the merger of ] and this article a long time ago. The only thing that isn't covered in this article is the actual phrase "trick ending." Does anyone actually use this phrase? If it's common, it should be mentioned in this article; however, I've never heard of it. I'm going to go ahead just make trick ending a redirect to this page and leave it at that. ]<sup>]</sup> 04:48, 27 April 2006 (UTC) | |||
| I added the concept of trick ending to the main concept as it is merely the same topic and usually those two are combined together. Good job redirecting trick ending to here. Pagliaccimontague - 10:22pm June 24th 2007 | |||
| ==Video Game Twist Endings== | |||
| I'm beggining to become a little concerned that fans of certain video games might be adding them to the Video Game list without good reason. | |||
| A few games that I can comment on: | |||
| Dues Ex may be one of my favorite games, and it's certainly notable for it's various twists, but it does not have a twist ending. There is no major suprise once you enter the last level, Area 51. | |||
| Grand Theft Auto is another series I like, but as I know Vice City is the only one with an ending that might be considered a twist (Lance's Betrayal). | |||
| Halo is a series with no twist endings that I can think of, this at least holds true with the second game. | |||
| The only Metal Gear with a clear-cut ending that fits the articles description of a twist ending is Snake Eater. MGS2 has a twist close enough to the end that it's arguable, but iffy. | |||
| Star Wars; Knights of the Old Republic has one of my favorite game twists, but it happens a long time before the ending. | |||
| There is also alot of point and click adventures in the list. While there probably should be a significant amount, I can't help but think that more than a few of these might not actually have twist endings. Can anyone who has played these games please comment? | |||
| --GYC | |||
| Deus Ex does not have a twist ending at all. Nor does FF7, or many of the other games In fact, the entire section is of questionable credibility and should be entirely removed, because whoever wrote it has no idea what a 'twist ending' actually is.] 03:34, 11 June 2006 (UTC) | |||
| There is a twist ending in Final Fantasy 7. You find out at the end that the planet itself fights off Meteor, and that fighting Sephiroth and all that was (possibly) useless. Though I do agree with you. I think this article has become too much about listing things with twist endings, rather than explaining what the twist ending is. --GYC | |||
| : Not quite - the planet indeed does save everyone from meteor (Aeris in fact causes the Lifestream to bubble up and do the job (as confirmed in FF VII: AC)) but she was prevented from working by the power of Sephiroth - that's why the power does not start to work until after you have defeated him for the last time. ] 16:22, 3 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :It's not a Twist ending. The plan was articulated within the game. Furthermore, a twist ending is meant to change the perception of what occurs during the game, Final Fantasy VII does not. It does not belong in this section.--] 18:50, 28 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
| == "Connotations" == | |||
| ''You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.'' The word "Connotations" as I understand it means a set of implied associations with a word. For example the word "whore" has dirty and negative connotations, whereas the word "prostitute" is more neutral, and the term "escort" has almost positive connotations. To use the dictionary example, the word "Hollywood" has strong connotations of stars and movie studios. I'm not sure what word would be better suited, perhaps "potential pitfalls" or something along those lines, and it's a subtle error, but it kind of bothers me. I'll fix it when I think of a better word, unless somebody else does before me. --] 04:59, 12 June 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ==]== | |||
| The listing of film examples have become unnecessary for this article. The reason is because the wikipedia article ''']''' gives a far more comprehensive representation of films using this narrative device. If you feel there is a particular film's twist ending that has had a great influence on the whole film medium, please add to the '''Influential films''' section of the article and explain it's reason for being so influential. --] June 16th, 2006 | |||
| == Mystery genre conventions? == | |||
| In the Genre Conventions: Mystery Genre section, all four of the points seem questionable to me, but the last two, dealing with film, are particularly troublesome because they imply that they apply to all films: | |||
| * In film, the killer is never an unknown actor but always a recognizable face or named actor. | |||
| It seems to me that this can't be the case for ''all'' mystery movies, since not all movies feature well-known actors. Trivially, there are cases where directors or producers will deliberately "cast unknowns" for effect. And does this really have much to do with twist endings, as such? | |||
| * In film, if the camera lingers on an object for an unnecessary length of time, then that object is a vital clue and will play an important part in the story's revelation (see flashing arrow). This method is also present in literature, only that an object is described for a longer duration, but it is usually harder to notice. | |||
| Does this necessarily have anything to do with twist endings, either? | |||
| —] 13:05, 23 June 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ** Duly noted. I have removed the list of mystery guidelines since it is essentially a repeat of what is said on the ] wikipedia article. Also, I clarified the analysis of the mystery conventions and how they work in order to create and/or compromise the twist ending device. - ] 30 June 2006 (UTC) | |||
| Well, it seems that someone's put those overly-broad claims about film back in again. I've tagged them for unsourcedness. —] 16:35, 26 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == Alejandro Amenabar == | |||
| Perhaps the spanish film director and guionist (and composser...) Alejandro Amenabar should be included in the list of authors. | |||
| He has filmed only 4 films, but two of them have a twist ending. I am refering to "Abre los ojos" (A remake with Tomo Cruise called "Vanille Sky" was done), and "The Others" (In pre-production when The Six Sense appeared). | |||
| ==Lord of the Flies== | ==Lord of the Flies== | ||
| On Lord of The Flies being a Dues Ex Machina ending, I'm not sure that it was since the boat came due to the fact that the boys had lit the whole island on fire. Also, I understood the source of the phrase as a mechanical god brought down to resolve to play. | On Lord of The Flies being a Dues Ex Machina ending, I'm not sure that it was since the boat came due to the fact that the boys had lit the whole island on fire. Also, I understood the source of the phrase as a mechanical god brought down to resolve to play. | ||
| As was pointed out by the author in a later foreword, the officer and his ship saved the kids, but who will save the officer and his ship? It's not a deus ex but actually a "moral twist" ending. | As was pointed out by the author in a later foreword, the officer and his ship saved the kids, but who will save the officer and his ship? It's not a deus ex but actually a "moral twist" ending. | ||
| I removed this: For example, in ]'s '']'', a ship arrives at the island to rescue the boys just in time to prevent the band of "hunters" from killing the ], Ralph.<ref>Janra, , ''Write On!''</ref> | |||
| == Revision as of 18:21, 3 July 2006 == | |||
| As it is not a DeM (what is unexpoected about a ship coing to investigate an island that is on fire, in an area where a bunch of kids went missing? And the source doesn't look very reliable either, more of a blog.] (]) 10:38, 20 October 2008 (UTC) | |||
| In regards to this revision, I did a lot of cleaning up and out. I converted a lot of unnecessary bullet points into paragraphs, removed a lot of boldfacing, and removed authors' pictures (since these articles have their own articles where the picture lives). | |||
| :Lord of the flies is NOT a twost ending. A twist ending would have been if the kids were stranded on purpose and everyone was in on it to test one of the kids to see if he'd stay sane, etc. THAT would have been a twist ending. Lord of the Flies is just about kids stranded, who go crazy and in the end rescuers find them just before they kill someone. Where's the twist? NONE. | |||
| The biggest removal involved the interviews. Inclusion of them verbatim like that is probably a copyright violation, and even if that's not the case, being presented as they were is still unencyclopedic. So I pulled them entirely. | |||
| -G <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 23:50, 17 November 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| I left the copyedit tag in place, since the article still needs a lot of work. The writing is admittedly kind of boring. There are a number of places where several paragraphs in a row all start the same way and follow the same format. That makes for uninteresting reading. I also consider a number of areas ripe for shortening, like in the example sections and author lists. I think it drags the article. | |||
| An addendum to this would be: The Prestige is not a Deus Ex Machina ending either, I'm removing it's reference as the plot follows a straight-forward conclusion. The film establishes a Steam Punk science fiction in this pseudo-possible reality. The science fiction nature to the film does not make the ending a DeM. A significantly better example would be in The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers, where the siege of Helms Deep is ended by the exiled calvary who return _just_ in time. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 08:10, 19 July 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| So that's how I see it. Basically, this article still needs major revisions and needs to be condensed. ] (]) 18:34, 3 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ==Merging?== | |||
| --] 23:22, 6 August 2006 (UTC)==Revision as of August 6, 2006 == | |||
| I'm not quite sure I understand the merging. This is what the tag reads: | |||
| I copyedited the first section (Common Literary Devices). I generally streamlined the language, fixed typos and grammatical/syntax problems, and so on. I agree with Schuminweb that starting the paragraphs the same way is boring. I noticed that, but wanted to get through the more straightforward copyediting problems first. I may go back and work on varying the paragraph starters.--] 17:47, 6 August 2006 (UTC) | |||
| So we should merge all four articles into an article that does not exist? I saw that the link we were supposed to merge to is bright red. I thought it was speedily deleted or deleted for nonsense or gibberish, but a click tells me the page is brand spankin' new! What's the deal here? We're going to gather all the information and then create a new article with it? <b>]'''<span style="color:#fe2c96;">★</span>''']</b> 05:27, 25 October 2008 (UTC) | |||
| I went back to the first section to see what I could do to vary the paragraph starters and make the writing a bit more interesting. First, I changed the heading "Mechanics" to "Mechanics of the Twist Ending." I did that to make it clear that all the devices that followed were devices that are used to create twist endings; this way it wouldn't have to be repeated in every single device description that this device created twist endings. I deleted "Common" in "Common Literary Devices"; I thought it was understood that these are common literary devices; otherwise, why would they be included? | |||
| == Harry Potter == | |||
| After that, I rewrote most of the device descriptions to delete repeating phraseology like "this literary device" or "this device works in twist endings by ..." and suchlike. | |||
| >:D A great example of a triple-cross betrayal would be Snape in Harry Potter :D ....Wouldn't it? =o Might come out soon too :O <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 12:23, 16 January 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| I had a little trouble with the timestamp/signature at the end. Am I correct in thinking that we are not supposed to put our sigs after edits; only on talk pages (like this one)? | |||
| Anyway, just let me know, anyone, if there are questions or concerns. | |||
| I retitled "Common Story Elements" to "Narrative Elements" and substantially copyedited/rewrote the definitions for each element. There was a lot of redundant, repetitive language; I tried to tighten it up and make it more concise. | |||
| ==Linkfarm?== | |||
| The above comment is mine, nycteacher. I wasn't signed in before when I wrote that. Hopefully my name and the date stamp will appear this time.--] 20:57, 7 August 2006 (UTC) | |||
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| == Mechanics of the twist ending == | |||
| Okay: I just finished a fairly major reorganization/editing. I changed the heading "Negative Connotations" to "Caveats." This is a section of cautions, or warnings, about possible problems with using twist endings. It has nothing to do with connotations, negative or positive. I could have called it "Problems with Twist Endings" or something else similar, but I settled on "Caveats." | |||
| What is this section doing here? It is simply a list of literary devices, many of which have no relation to a "twist ending". However without it the article is very short, so I am forced to ask "What is this article doing here?" Any suggestions? ] (]) 01:39, 22 January 2010 (UTC) | |||
| Next, I reorganized the heads and weighted them differently. I felt that Genre, Film, Music, Television, etc., should all be separate A-level categories. I put Genre as a B-heading under the new A-heading The Twist Ending in Fiction, to allow for separate categories on literature, mass market, or whatever. Also, I think there should be a sub-category under Genre for thrillers. | |||
| On reflection the entire article is wrong, from the definition onwards. A Twist Ending mustn't just be "unexpected" and "contain irony", it must cast a whole different light on the narrative so far. If the cavalry ride over the hill to save the settlers from the Indians, that's unexpected but not a twist. If it turns out the Indians were trying to save them from a Buffalo stampede, and not attacking, that's a twist. | |||
| Under "The Twist Ending in Music," I added "The Pina Colada Song" by Rupert Holmes. That definitely has a twist ending. | |||
| My suggestion is that the tiny amount of valid content here is merged to ] and this made a redirect. ] (]) 01:45, 22 January 2010 (UTC) | |||
| I don't think I'm going to tackle the length issue. I'll let somebody else take that on.--] 23:07, 7 August 2006 (UTC) | |||
| == Tells Too Much == | |||
| ==Improving length of article== | |||
| It's rare that I say this, but this article is indeed too long. As it stands now: | |||
| :"Mechanics of the Twist Ending" ~ 27% | |||
| :"The Twist Ending in Fiction" ~ 19% | |||
| :"The Twist Ending in Film" ~ 17% | |||
| :"The Twist Ending in Television" ~ 5% | |||
| :"The Twist Ending in Video Games" ~ 10% | |||
| :"The Twist Ending in Comic Books" ~ 7.5% | |||
| :"The Twist Ending in Anime" ~ 8.5% | |||
| :"The Twist Ending in Music" ~ 6.5% | |||
| This article reveals too much about the twist endings of several books and movies. I'm sure there have been some people who have looked at this article and ended up finding out about the ending of something that they had been planning to read or watch sometime in the future. At very least, this article should have some type of spoiler warning at the top. ]] 23:48, 12 January 2011 (UTC) | |||
| One idea is to combine "Film", "Television", and "Anime" and "Fiction" and "Comic Books" into two separate categories, but that leaves "Video Games" and "Music" as the odd (and short) ones out. Another is to break off all of them (i.e. things other than "Mechanics") into individual categories. Still another idea is to them off into one big category, at about 41 kb. Someone else might come along with a better solution, but the issue ''does'' need to be addressed. ] 09:42, 23 August 2006 (UTC) | |||
| == Article should be removed == | |||
| This article is way too long. Why does anime need it's own section?? It's an awfully esoteric genre that, while increasing in popularity, still only appeals to relatively few cult fans. If we include anime, why not include Bollywood movies? Why not include traditional fairy tales? Why not include twist endings in theater? | |||
| The point of the article on twist endings should be to describe the concept and illustrate a few respresentative twist-endings that have widespread popularity across the whole world - ie. the twist ending in "Psycho" or some other ubiquituous work of literature, not a list of video games and anime titles many of which don't even seem to fit the "twist ending" category. | |||
| :Yes please. I trimmed ] a month or two ago for much the same reason. Iconic examples are better than a laundry list, though it will take some maintaining. -- '']']'' 04:15, 26 August 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ::Whoa, this article is ''definitely'' too long. I did a major revision some time ago on an overly long article (]) by splitting the examples up into lists, and it seemed to work well. I think I could do the same for this article, and edit out the more obscure references. Any suggestions on how to best edit this?] 18:00, 10 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
| This is an excellent article but it is certainly original research by Misplaced Pages's standards. | |||
| == Huh? == | |||
| I will remove it shortly unless there are good arguments otherwise. | |||
| What does "in medias res" have to do with twist ''endings''? | |||
| :As the article itself (at least tries to) explain(s), because we don't always know what happened before the opening events, the twist might be the revelation of this. Still, perhaps that part should be merged into the section on flashbacks, I don't know. <math>\sim</math> ] ] 14:28, 29 March 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ] (]) 23:59, 5 February 2011 (UTC) | |||
| == Spoilers == | |||
| ] has recently voiced opposition to the spoilers contained in the article. After removing them several times, and my requests to leave them in, as they are used to illustrate the technique of a "twist ending", we have come to an agreement that will hopefully help anyone else with the same concerns. I have added the {{t1|spoiler}} tag to the sections that reveal plot details, allowing those reading to realize that it may reveal specific endings. I hope this is helpful. <sup>]<font color="FF69B4">♥</font>]</sup> 10:29, 24 August 2007 (UTC) | |||
| : I appreciate your motives, but obviously an article discussing twist endings will give examples of twist endings. It isn't necessary or desirable to signal this fact within the article because it disrupts the flow of reading and anybody stupid enough to fail to realise that this article discusses twist endings will obviously be too stupid to understand the spoiler warnings. --] 11:52, 24 August 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::Do as you see fit, but I don't think resorting to terms like "stupid" is really necessary, is it? ] the {{t1|spoiler}} is extremely unobtrusive, and seemed to me to be a good compromise, rather than reporting the above user for continued removal of the information. <sup>]<font color="FF69B4">♥</font>]</sup> 12:00, 24 August 2007 (UTC) | |||
| who deleted the spoiler warnings? | |||
| i want some damn answers now you imbeciles | |||
| ] 13:20, 25 August 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :When I was a kid, I was taught to say "please". -- ] 13:42, 25 August 2007 (UTC) | |||
| As Tony Sidaway said, anyone reading an article on twist endings is going to expect that it will reveal some twist endings. If they were truly worried about avoiding all spoilers they simply wouldn't read the article. So there's no need for an extra spoiler warning tag. — Carl <small>(] · ])</small> 00:08, 6 September 2007 (UTC) | |||
| : I disagree. Someone might want to read about the terminology and types of twist endings without reading a spoiler. It's unfair to assume otherwise. Obviously there are people requesting a notice of spoilers, so the spoiler tag seems to be a fair, unobtrusive compromise. <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 06:34, 14 September 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| ==Twist film endings== | |||
| Am I the only one who thinks the twist film endings section has gotten too long? A lot of them don't even qualify as twist endings. It's also incredibly U.S.-centric; some of them are remakes of foreign films. I'm gonna remove some of the ones I think are weak; if anyone has a problem, speak on it. Those are The Village, Unbreakable, Memento, The Ring, | |||
| Saw II and III, Dead Silence, Skeleton Key, I Know Who Killed Me and Smokin' Aces. --] 21:42, 25 August 2007 (UTC) | |||
| : Yes, I agree. And although you might think this a little draconian I've also temporarily removed the whole "TV, Cinema, video games" thing because they've become magnets for a certain kind of wikipedia-editing, which I might call "listism", which seems to go something like: "I can make this article better by writing about my favorite example of this phenomenon." In small doses this is great, because if we can use one or two examples to illustrate a theme it improves the impact of the article by giving a point we can relate to. In Misplaced Pages-sized doses, however, we end up with several long paragraphs containing redundant examples. | |||
| : So please don't take my (temporary) removal of these sections as a signal that we shouldn't have such sections. Rather, I think we should probably have a discussion about how many examples to use. | |||
| : Please feel free to revert any or all of my edits. My feeling is that I think we should hold a discussion and make sure we think this is what we want to do. --] 14:43, 5 September 2007 (UTC) | |||
| Nah, it's not draconian. It looks much better now. --] 03:10, 24 September 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == Copyedit (without significant content change) == | |||
| {{WP:LoCE | |||
| |September 2007 | |||
| |] 06:21, 23 September 2007 (UTC) | |||
| }} | |||
| == Not a penny less, not a penny more == | |||
| == Dead links == | |||
| The book has a great twist at the end but does not really fit into any of the categories given on the page. What would it be filed under? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 14:20, 21 April 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| The references | |||
| "The Rashomon Effect. Combining Positivist and Interpretivist Approaches in the Analysis of Contested Events - Harvard University" (http://www.wjh.harvard.edu/~wroth/RashomonEffect.pdf) | |||
| and | |||
| "Analysis of The Tenant" | |||
| (http://www.wehateyouandyourhorrendoustasteineverything.com/cinema/features/tenant.php) | |||
| show up a 404 error. I'm really very new to wiki editing, so I'm just gonna toss this out for someone who knows what they are doing ;) | |||
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Proposed merge
- The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the proposal was I've proposed a merge with other "ending" articles into one single article, Ending (literature). Reasons and discussion can be found here (scroll down until you see the listing). L337 kybldmstr 10:32, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
- Oppose Meger - Resulting article would become excessivly long and pre-cede any GA or FA nomination «l| Ψrometheăn ™|l» (talk) 23:16, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
- Comment that merger proposal is a year old. Darrenhusted (talk)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
Merge all 'twist' articles
There's a dreadful article called Plot twist, and this fantastic article, Twist ending. I'm inclined to say Twist ending should be renamed Plot twist, and discuss twists in general. I don't see why "ending" should be the only area in which twists are discussed. While in many cases the ending is where the big twist occurs (Planet of the Apes, The Usual Suspects, Fight Club), a more generic discussion could be more useful.
It would further provide a justification for eliminating the terrible content of the aforementioned Plot twist article. -FeralDruid (talk) 04:18, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
- Oppose Merger - Two different topics a twist ending and a twist deserve distinguishment «l| Ψrometheăn ™|l» (talk) 23:14, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
- Support. The twists given in this article do not only apply to endings, indeed many are not about endings at all. Should be merged, and the resulting article have a section discussing the application of twists to endings - if there is anything special to say about them. I really donh't think many make any difference if the occur at the the end, or after 3/4 of the plot.Yobmod (talk) 10:47, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
- As the merge is not going along yet, i've stzarted removeing all the examples of twists that are not endings (eg, characters being killed at the beginning of a movie).Yobmod (talk) 13:20, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
Lord of the Flies
On Lord of The Flies being a Dues Ex Machina ending, I'm not sure that it was since the boat came due to the fact that the boys had lit the whole island on fire. Also, I understood the source of the phrase as a mechanical god brought down to resolve to play.
As was pointed out by the author in a later foreword, the officer and his ship saved the kids, but who will save the officer and his ship? It's not a deus ex but actually a "moral twist" ending.
I removed this: For example, in William Golding's Lord of the Flies, a ship arrives at the island to rescue the boys just in time to prevent the band of "hunters" from killing the protagonist, Ralph.
As it is not a DeM (what is unexpoected about a ship coing to investigate an island that is on fire, in an area where a bunch of kids went missing? And the source doesn't look very reliable either, more of a blog.Yobmod (talk) 10:38, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
- Lord of the flies is NOT a twost ending. A twist ending would have been if the kids were stranded on purpose and everyone was in on it to test one of the kids to see if he'd stay sane, etc. THAT would have been a twist ending. Lord of the Flies is just about kids stranded, who go crazy and in the end rescuers find them just before they kill someone. Where's the twist? NONE.
-G —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.246.112.186 (talk) 23:50, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
An addendum to this would be: The Prestige is not a Deus Ex Machina ending either, I'm removing it's reference as the plot follows a straight-forward conclusion. The film establishes a Steam Punk science fiction in this pseudo-possible reality. The science fiction nature to the film does not make the ending a DeM. A significantly better example would be in The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers, where the siege of Helms Deep is ended by the exiled calvary who return _just_ in time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.205.177.126 (talk) 08:10, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
Merging?
I'm not quite sure I understand the merging. This is what the tag reads:
So we should merge all four articles into an article that does not exist? I saw that the link we were supposed to merge to is bright red. I thought it was speedily deleted or deleted for nonsense or gibberish, but a click tells me the page is brand spankin' new! What's the deal here? We're going to gather all the information and then create a new article with it? Lady★Galaxy 05:27, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
Harry Potter
>:D A great example of a triple-cross betrayal would be Snape in Harry Potter :D ....Wouldn't it? =o Might come out soon too :O —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.176.231.51 (talk) 12:23, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
Linkfarm?
Mechanics of the twist ending
What is this section doing here? It is simply a list of literary devices, many of which have no relation to a "twist ending". However without it the article is very short, so I am forced to ask "What is this article doing here?" Any suggestions? DJ Clayworth (talk) 01:39, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
On reflection the entire article is wrong, from the definition onwards. A Twist Ending mustn't just be "unexpected" and "contain irony", it must cast a whole different light on the narrative so far. If the cavalry ride over the hill to save the settlers from the Indians, that's unexpected but not a twist. If it turns out the Indians were trying to save them from a Buffalo stampede, and not attacking, that's a twist.
My suggestion is that the tiny amount of valid content here is merged to Literary technique and this made a redirect. DJ Clayworth (talk) 01:45, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
Tells Too Much
This article reveals too much about the twist endings of several books and movies. I'm sure there have been some people who have looked at this article and ended up finding out about the ending of something that they had been planning to read or watch sometime in the future. At very least, this article should have some type of spoiler warning at the top. Mollymoon 23:48, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
Article should be removed
This is an excellent article but it is certainly original research by Misplaced Pages's standards.
I will remove it shortly unless there are good arguments otherwise.
Keithbowden (talk) 23:59, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
Not a penny less, not a penny more
The book has a great twist at the end but does not really fit into any of the categories given on the page. What would it be filed under? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.117.132.13 (talk) 14:20, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
- Janra, Common plot errors: deus ex machina, Write On!