Talk:Kirkintilloch: Difference between revisions

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			== Untitled ==
	Errrr why was the link to Kirkie Mierda pulled? It's the top ranking site in Yahoo for the search term 'Kirkie'. It does get a lot of hits. I'm not even related to whoever it is that does it, but it's a very popular 'Kirkie' site. I think we should put it back in. --] 01:30, 27 April 2006 (UTC)		Errrr why was the link to Kirkie Mierda pulled? It's the top ranking site in Yahoo for the search term 'Kirkie'. It does get a lot of hits. I'm not even related to whoever it is that does it, but it's a very popular 'Kirkie' site. I think we should put it back in. --] 01:30, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

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	Why is the Gaelic form of the name given? Gaelic is not spoken in Kirkintilloch, and indeed was very probably ''never'' spoken there. ] 02:53, 07 April 2007 (UTC)		Why is the Gaelic form of the name given? Gaelic is not spoken in Kirkintilloch, and indeed was very probably ''never'' spoken there. ] 02:53, 07 April 2007 (UTC)

			Gaelic was certainly spoken throughout the Lowlands of Scotland (and still is in Edinburgh by a few thousand people.) This is probably why it was known as Scottis by English speakers in the 13th century. In fact the Gaelic speaking Bruces and Stewarts have close links to Renfrewshire and Ayrshire. ] (]) 05:03, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

	I would say it is there because a) Gaelic has had a major influence on the names of places and the creation of names throughout Scotland as is the case here and b) Gaelic is an official language of Scotland therefore providing the Gaelic name gives additional information. ] 10:35, 7 April 2007 (UTC)		I would say it is there because a) Gaelic has had a major influence on the names of places and the creation of names throughout Scotland as is the case here and b) Gaelic is an official language of Scotland therefore providing the Gaelic name gives additional information. ] 10:35, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

			Ah, OK. I don't agree with the relevance of the first point, but the second makes sense.
			] 02:03, 08 April 2007 (UTC)

			== Kirkintilloch Gaelic Name ==

			Having researched the Etymology of the the name Kirkintilloch I was very surprised to see the assertion that it had a Gaelic name. I have no idea where it came from, and moreover, as gaelic is extremely rare in Kirkintilloch (I bet there are more native Germans, chinese, Arabic speakers - indeed I've yet to meet anyone in Kirkintilloch who can speak Gaelic!) As far as I am aware there is no written evidence of Gaelic ever being spoken in this area, and therefore the likelihood of a Gaelic name is zero. So, I placed a "citation needed" quite a few months ago. There being no citation added, I'm of the opinion that this is just some modern made up gaelic phrase which no ligitimacy in an article like this. At the very best it may warrant a small inclusion just for the humour of having a gaelic name in the bulk of the article, but there is absolutely no justification for it being given the prominence someone gave it as the first information about Kirkintilloch. <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 22:01, August 28, 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

			The Gaelic name makes perfect sense as it describes the place using a grammatically correct Gaelic phrase. I suspect that despite the attempt to destroy Gaelic through Scottish education legislation in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries (something that Arabic and Chinese havent been subjected to.), that Kirkintilloch has maintained Gaelic speakers from the nearby Lennox area and that its Gaelic history is far more important than its Chinese or Arabic ones. ] (]) 05:07, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

			W J Watson's seminal work "The History of the Celtic Place-Names of Scotland" (Paperback edition published by Birlinn: {{ISBN\|1874744068}}) comments on how the original Old British name became converted to Gaelic. (The Gaelic form underlies the current English-language usage.) On page 348, Watson states: "Caer-pen-taloch can be no other than Kir-kin-tilloch.....The people who used such names knew perfectly well the meaning of such terms as pen, ceann; bryn, tulach, in both languages." So the most authoritative source on Scottish placenames was clearly of the opinion that firstly, the original name was Old British, and, secondly, that people translated all the elements of that name into Scottish Gaelic, while being aware of the meanings of both languages. Incidentally, there is no English name for Kirkintilloch - it's just a borrowing from Gaelic, with the usual changes in spelling inherent in the language change. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 13:52, 25 December 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


			I agree with the above. What is indisputable is that Gaelic was spoken in the area, otherwise, why would the Engish name be a Gaelic borrowing rather than straight from the Brythonic? Gaelic is still spoken in the nearby Leamnachd area. The Gaelic name is nearer to the original than the English form as the words "pen" and "caer" are both Brythonic variants on the Gaelic.] (]) 15:00, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

			:You needn't have looked further than the ] article to figure out that Gaelic was ineed spoken in the area. So whatever research you did, I suggest you look harder next time before making claims like that again. ] (]) 20:49, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

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Untitled

Errrr why was the link to Kirkie Mierda pulled? It's the top ranking site in Yahoo for the search term 'Kirkie'. It does get a lot of hits. I'm not even related to whoever it is that does it, but it's a very popular 'Kirkie' site. I think we should put it back in. --TheMadTim 01:30, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

I removed it because it is essentially a personal website with no particular verifiable information about the town. Joyous | Talk 01:44, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

What makes you think that it's supposed to have verifiable information on it? Are web sites run by one person not permitted? --TheMadTim 03:48, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Please see WP:EL for information about the kinds of external links that are preferred. Joyous | Talk 11:23, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes I've seen that. Where does it say that websites must have verifiable information on them? Following your logic, no internet message boards would be able to be listed in Misplaced Pages. Additionally, I didn't see anything in WP:EL which barred websites operated, in the main, by one person? --TheMadTim 11:32, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

It looks like we're interpreting the external links guidelines differently. How about if we leave a note at the "third opinion" page, so we can get some outside feedback? Joyous | Talk 19:23, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

I've re-instated the Kirkie Mierda link. It was myself who put it there in the first place a good while ago. I have also more fully explained the reason for linking to it; it is a humourous outlook on the town, and serves to give a view of the local culture. The site is not just a passsing site; it has been up for years, and it's the "Chewin' the fat" for Kirkie for many.

I've left it in due to the fact that this talk page has been left untouched for a month, so hardly gleaning much interest. Misplaced Pages policy states that if in doubt (no concensus), then the material should be left in; so in it stays. Stephenmcleod 08:23, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

The 1960s development plan to gentrify Glasgow

This is a rather coloured way to describe the Glasgow redevelopment of the 60s - especaly as it lacks any supporting citations. I would suggest using a rmore neutral, less emotive, and more suportable, term be used instead.

Why is the Gaelic form of the name given? Gaelic is not spoken in Kirkintilloch, and indeed was very probably never spoken there. mathewannis 02:53, 07 April 2007 (UTC)

Gaelic was certainly spoken throughout the Lowlands of Scotland (and still is in Edinburgh by a few thousand people.) This is probably why it was known as Scottis by English speakers in the 13th century. In fact the Gaelic speaking Bruces and Stewarts have close links to Renfrewshire and Ayrshire. Seamusalba (talk) 05:03, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

I would say it is there because a) Gaelic has had a major influence on the names of places and the creation of names throughout Scotland as is the case here and b) Gaelic is an official language of Scotland therefore providing the Gaelic name gives additional information. Fraslet 10:35, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Ah, OK. I don't agree with the relevance of the first point, but the second makes sense. mathewannis 02:03, 08 April 2007 (UTC)

Kirkintilloch Gaelic Name

Having researched the Etymology of the the name Kirkintilloch I was very surprised to see the assertion that it had a Gaelic name. I have no idea where it came from, and moreover, as gaelic is extremely rare in Kirkintilloch (I bet there are more native Germans, chinese, Arabic speakers - indeed I've yet to meet anyone in Kirkintilloch who can speak Gaelic!) As far as I am aware there is no written evidence of Gaelic ever being spoken in this area, and therefore the likelihood of a Gaelic name is zero. So, I placed a "citation needed" quite a few months ago. There being no citation added, I'm of the opinion that this is just some modern made up gaelic phrase which no ligitimacy in an article like this. At the very best it may warrant a small inclusion just for the humour of having a gaelic name in the bulk of the article, but there is absolutely no justification for it being given the prominence someone gave it as the first information about Kirkintilloch. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.110.235.130 (talk) 22:01, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

The Gaelic name makes perfect sense as it describes the place using a grammatically correct Gaelic phrase. I suspect that despite the attempt to destroy Gaelic through Scottish education legislation in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries (something that Arabic and Chinese havent been subjected to.), that Kirkintilloch has maintained Gaelic speakers from the nearby Lennox area and that its Gaelic history is far more important than its Chinese or Arabic ones. Seamusalba (talk) 05:07, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

W J Watson's seminal work "The History of the Celtic Place-Names of Scotland" (Paperback edition published by Birlinn: ISBN 1874744068) comments on how the original Old British name became converted to Gaelic. (The Gaelic form underlies the current English-language usage.) On page 348, Watson states: "Caer-pen-taloch can be no other than Kir-kin-tilloch.....The people who used such names knew perfectly well the meaning of such terms as pen, ceann; bryn, tulach, in both languages." So the most authoritative source on Scottish placenames was clearly of the opinion that firstly, the original name was Old British, and, secondly, that people translated all the elements of that name into Scottish Gaelic, while being aware of the meanings of both languages. Incidentally, there is no English name for Kirkintilloch - it's just a borrowing from Gaelic, with the usual changes in spelling inherent in the language change. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.223.96.195 (talk) 13:52, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

I agree with the above. What is indisputable is that Gaelic was spoken in the area, otherwise, why would the Engish name be a Gaelic borrowing rather than straight from the Brythonic? Gaelic is still spoken in the nearby Leamnachd area. The Gaelic name is nearer to the original than the English form as the words "pen" and "caer" are both Brythonic variants on the Gaelic.Seamusalba (talk) 15:00, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

You needn't have looked further than the Scottish Gaelic article to figure out that Gaelic was ineed spoken in the area. So whatever research you did, I suggest you look harder next time before making claims like that again. Akerbeltz (talk) 20:49, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

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