Talk:Patriotic Youth League: Difference between revisions

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	==Racist and neo-Nazi claims==
			{{WikiProject Politics \|importance=Low}}
	"nationalistic, racist, neo-nazi youth organization in Australia" - Isnt this a rather one-sided view of it? Can anyone give a more NPOV description of this org?
			}}
			{{Australian English}}
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			== Intro ==
	:Um... that is an NPOV description. Let's break it down.
			I've restored my intro again, and have moved this: "Sydney President Andrew Wilson admitted to The ''Herald'' that Stuart McBeth founded an Australian branch of the ], an ] ] group, and that the PYL shares a PO Box with same." As it was the second sentence, the reader didn't know what "Sydney president" meant, or who Andrew Wilson and Stuart McBeth were. I had to guess that "Sydney president" meant president of the Sydney branch of the PYL, and that's how I've described him; if that's wrong, please correct. ] ] 18:29, May 20, 2005 (UTC)
	:1. They're nationalisitc.
	:2. They're racist.
	:3. They're a neo-nazi group.
	:4. They're a youth organization. ] 07:33, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

			== Eureka Flag ==
	::Removed defamatory POV. - ]
			I have removed the paragraph which states that the PYL's use of the Eureka flag is ironic. Whether or not it is "ironic" is strictly POV. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->

	:::I've restored it but attributed it to the ''Sydney Morning Herald''. ] <sup><font color="Purple">]</font></sup> 06:30, May 12, 2005 (UTC)

	::::Much better. ;) - ]

	==Intro==
	I've restored my intro again, and have moved this: "Sydney President Andrew Wilson admitted to The ''Herald'' that Stuart McBeth founded an Australian branch of the ], an ] ] group, and that the PYL shares a PO Box with same." As it was the second sentence, the reader didn't know what "Sydney president" meant, or who Andrew Wilson and Stuart McBeth were. I had to guess that "Sydney president" meant president of the Sydney branch of the PYL, and that's how I've described him; if that's wrong, please correct. ] <sup><font color="Purple">]</font></sup> 18:29, May 20, 2005 (UTC)

	==Links==

	I've put the links to FightDemBack and the PYL spoof back, as they're entirely relevant to the subject at hand. Both were created to oppose the PYL... to omit them is unencyclopedic and POV. ] 03:28, 21 May 2005 (UTC)
	:I've put the PYL spoof link back, Jason... I'll explain why, in a second. For the record, when you removed the "four" FDB links before, you removed the spoof page and the actual link to FDB, leaving the Darpism link up. What the? I'd posit that the Darpism link is relevant, because Darpism practically destroyed the PYL, but I'll concede that since it's all repeated in FDB, it's no longer necessary. You can't remove the PYL spoof on the basis of POV, homes... Everything in those external links has a POV. The PYL website has a POV. The PYL's blog has a POV. FDB has a POV. It's relevant, and it should stay.

	==Nazis etc.==

	Anon, let me break it down for you.

	The PYL is the youth wing of violent neo-nazi group National Action. Nazis.
	PYL members, including Stuart McBeth and Luke Connors, post on neo-nazi forum Stormfront. Nazis.
	Stuart McBeth believes Aryans have a higher culture ]. Nazis.

	What I want you to do, is read those articles there on the page. Read all of the words, and note the dates before coming up with any more political malice theories.

	Let's work on making this the most accurate encyclopedia that we can, okay. Cheers ] 14:35, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

	::I hate to butt in here, as you probably know, I still contribute to several (non WP related) articles around here, I think you need to review your definition of "Nazi". (As some may know, I no longer contribute to the WP scene, I'm just here to be encyclopedic.)

	::From dictionary.com Na·zi: A member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party, founded in Germany in 1919 and brought to power in 1933 under Adolf Hitler.

	::The PLY is not a member party of the NSDAP, considering the NSDAP died out in 1945, the claim that they are related is just not feasible. They do, however, subscribe to the politics of National Socialism, and in this light, I am changed the opening paragraph. - ]

	:::There is wide agreement that the original Nazi movement mostly ended after 1945. Modern movements that support National Socialist goals are called ''Neo-''Nazis. Neo-Nazism is not directly tied to Hitler's Nazism but rather to that of Rockwell and other fascists of the 1960s. Nobody is going to confuse the two. However, since it is a contentious appellation we should use it with attribution. Cheers, -] June 28, 2005 06:53 (UTC)

	My edit of the opening sentence was intended to get across that the PYL themselves deny being neo-Nazis, but are (fairly credibly) accused of actually being.

	Also, unless anyone has any information to the contrary, the PYL are not linked to National Action, but to Jim Saleam (former head of National Action). --] 05:50, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

	== Cronulla disturbances ==

	PYL mentioned in this news story:

	http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17536340-2,00.html

	] 03:12, 12 December 2005 (UTC)


	== Newcastle ==
	No mention here of the Newcastle PYL rally against the Sudanese community. As I was at the counter-rally (pro-diversity), I can contribute but accept that my interpretation will be POV.
	] 18:15, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

	== Eureka Flag==
	I have removed the paragraph which states that the PYL's use of the Eureka flag is ironic. Whether or not it is "ironic" is strictly POV. {{unsigned\|211.30.234.103}}

	good decision.		good decision.

			== External links modified ==
	== White supremacist or White Nationalist ==

	They're actually both. What should they be described as up the top? ]

	:They call themselves 'white nationalist'. The media and commentators call them 'white supremacist' - I'd just include that along with neo-nazi in the following sentence. ] <sup>]</sup> 22:48, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
	::Yes, but the Patriotic Youth League does not have a great reputation when it comes to honesty. I think we should really be aiming for as accurate an entry as possible. ]
	:::They've defined themselves as 'white nationalist', regardless of some of the activities/behaviour of their members and media/public perception. Just add in 'supremacist' in the next line, along with neo-nazi. ] <sup>]</sup> 07:11, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
	::::I've defined myself as an eskimo man called Brian O'Harradine von Trankintrop. That doesn't mean that I should be listed in an encylopedia as Brian O'Harradine von Trankintrop, because that clearly isn't my name. I can't find anywhere on the PYL website where they define themselves as 'white nationalists.' John Drew, on the PYL QLD page describes them as a 'radical nationalist' organisation, and Jim Saleam tends to refer to himself as a National Bolshevik, but I would have thought that their member's pre-occupation with wearing neo-nazi symbols and WS fashions would indicate that the actual youth members themselves define themselves as neo-nazis. ] 20:05, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

	== External Links ==
	I just cleaned up the links. One or two were old, not working, or not updated. Also, I don't know if we need that Blinky Bill one. It is funny, but is it needed? Might be... ] 10:18, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

	:I re(?)-removed the spoof site link. Per ], external links are supposed to be informative. -] 08:14, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

	::Okay... I restored the spoof link (before) because it was back up, having been DDOSed a few weeks ago. It was removed on June 13 because it was not working. I think it's relevant to the article, because it's an example of one of the forms of opposition to the PYL, and because it has garnered so much (Australian) attention: It's been involved in a court case, has featured on the front page of at least two suburban newspapers, and has been mentioned in both ] and the ].

	:::If that's the case then it'd be appropriate to devote a paragraph, or at least a sentence, to the website in a "criticism" section. Could you write up a brief summary of the website's notoriety? -] 18:31, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

	::::How's that? I wasn't sure how it should be referenced. First article was in the Sunbury Telegraph (1/2/05) There were some more frontpages in the Sunbury/Hume papers after Medcraft announced his legal action. There was also a story in the Age and the Herald Sun last week regarding the outcome (although they contradicted each other) and a gossip column piece in the Age when the case was first heard a few months ago. ] 23:37, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

			Hello fellow Wikipedians,
	:::::That's excellent, much better than a plain link at the bottom of the page. Thanks for writing it. -] 00:51, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

			I have just modified 3 external links on ]. Please take a moment to review ]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit ] for additional information. I made the following changes:
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			*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20051214022958/http://www.fightdemback.org/ to http://www.fightdemback.org/
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	== Commies out of controll ==
	Comrades. Stop this. Fightdemback you are a bunch of fare left communists who can't help your selvs. I know that PYL and AFP are just fronts for the interests of the capitalists. But they are not nazis or neo-nazis. Why don't you call them National Socialists because they are. Any way as I have already said on the AFP talk page. FightDemBack and Drett are reds who are branches of Fight Dem Back. Here is a good link to visit about the AFP and PYL --] 13:23, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

			{{sourcecheck\|checked=false\|needhelp=}}
	:This talk page is for discussing useful changes to the article. Please refrain from using talk pages to spam the Communist Party of Warwick High School. ] 21:01, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

			Cheers.—] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">(])</span> 16:37, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
	He isn't spamming any thing. BRFF is just a anti AFP and anti PYl web site. The party according to it's site is called Communist Party of Warwick not what you said. --] 10:15, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

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Intro

I've restored my intro again, and have moved this: "Sydney President Andrew Wilson admitted to The Herald that Stuart McBeth founded an Australian branch of the Volksfront, an American neo-Nazi group, and that the PYL shares a PO Box with same." As it was the second sentence, the reader didn't know what "Sydney president" meant, or who Andrew Wilson and Stuart McBeth were. I had to guess that "Sydney president" meant president of the Sydney branch of the PYL, and that's how I've described him; if that's wrong, please correct. SlimVirgin 18:29, May 20, 2005 (UTC)

Eureka Flag

I have removed the paragraph which states that the PYL's use of the Eureka flag is ironic. Whether or not it is "ironic" is strictly POV. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.30.234.103 (talk • contribs)

good decision.

External links modified

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