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{{See also|Misplaced Pages:Bot Approvals Group/nominations|label 1=Previous nominations}} {{See also|Misplaced Pages:Bot Approvals Group/nominations|label 1=Previous nominations}}


Requests to join the Bot Approvals Group are currently made here, although other methods have been proposed. Users wishing to join BAG, or to nominate another user to become a member, should start a new nomination page via the form below (replacing "UserName" with the nominee's) and transclude the discussion in a section below. Please note that notification to ], ], ], and ] is required. After a suitable length of time (usually one week unless the nomination has not received a reasonable level of support), the discussion will be closed by a bureaucrat. Requests to join the Bot Approvals Group are currently made here, although other methods have been proposed. Users wishing to join BAG, or to nominate another user to become a member, should start a new nomination page via the form below (replacing "UserName" with the nominee's) and transclude the discussion in a section below. Please note that notification to ], ], ], and ] is required. After a suitable length of time (usually one week unless the nomination has not received a reasonable level of support), the discussion will be closed by a bureaucrat.


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= Other discussion = = Other discussion =
== Inactivity discussion ==

I started a thread ] about (semi?)automating the inactivity checks. Please feel free to give your opinions. ] (]) 21:19, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

== Using GitLab for code review? ==
As was recently mentioned in Tech News, the foundation is currently holding a ] about moving development from Gerrit, the current code and patch review system, to ] (for reasons, other systems are not being considered). I'm in the working group steering this consultation and we are also very interested in the opinions of those outside the core development team. Bot writers, gadget developers etc.
Do you have concerns or enthusiasm about gitlab ? Do you think you might contribute more or less or even if it might be easier for you to be informed with Gitlab instead of gerrit ? What do you think about the gerrit patch review system vs the gitlab pull request system ? Please take a minute to think about it and maybe leave some comments at ] or if you really prefer to do so, leave them ] and I will later summarise them there. —] (] • ]) 07:47, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

== When to recuse from approval ==

This is something I've been thinking about on and off for a while now; at what point is it no longer appropriate for a BAG to approve a bot task?
*Scenario 1, it's their bot
*Scenario 2, they have proposed or otherwise heavily pushed for this bot task
*Scenario 3, they respond or assist with a BRFA
Scenario 1 is a pretty clear "recuse" to me, and Scenario 3 is a pretty clear "no issue", but what about Scenario 2? If a BAG member says "I have this idea, we should do this" and someone says "sure", does that BAG now have a duty to let a ''different'' BAG member review the case and determine if all of the "boxes" have been ticked? Since they're not the one ''running'' the bot, is it not an issue? What if there's opposition to or concerns about the initial proposal? I know it kind of comes down to a case-by-case basis, but I ''have'' seen in the past where the BAG member was both BOTREQ proposer ''and'' BRFA accepter, despite concerns being expressed (and largely not addressed). Curious to see what others think about this. ] (]) 21:47, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
:Speaking for myself, 1) is a clear case that a BAG member should recuse. For 2) and 3), it IMO depends to what extent objectivity is compromised, and how controversial the task is. I know I've certainly danced in the area a few times, recently in the case of ]/]. I don't know if this discussion was prompted by that approval and my involvement in it, but I do stand by it (and equally stand with letting someone else re-close the BRFA if someone objected with reasonable reasons). For me, in that case, it was a task where something similar has already been approved plenty of times (e.g. Joe's Null Bot, JCW-CleanerBot, etc.), and which pretty much zero potential for disruption, and my involvement is little more than 'I want a bot to do a null edit / purge on a set of <10 pages once a day' and realizing that existing null bots didn't have a way of specifying a time for null edits/purges to be made.
:Which to me, is a fairly different case from the, IMO still non-controversial, ]/] situation. There, I'm involved in a lot more places. The request is essentially so that the ] DYK listings compiled by ] (both of which are brainchildren of mine) have fewer empty entries. And since this interacts with a lot more pieces ({{tl|Article history}}, {{tl|DYK talk}}), while I'm comfortable supervising a limited trial for the technical aspects, I'd rather have a fully uninvolved third party review for final approval to ensure that my blind spots are covered, either for the consensus aspect, or some technical aspect I overlooked.
:If that's still too much involvement for some, I'm suppose I could fully recuse in all cases of 2, however remote my involvement, even if I feel my objectivity isn't compromised. But that, to me, feels pretty ], and would just needlessly slow down trials and approvals of completely non-controversial bots, and needlessly consume out already-limited BAG ressources. &#32;<span style="font-variant:small-caps; whitespace:nowrap;">] {] · ] · ] · ]}</span> 22:53, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
::This quote (which I wrote) from ] IMO sums up the situation nicely. {{xt|To ensure the impartial reviews of BRFAs, BAG members should not oversee the process for their own bots, or in other BRFAs where impartiality would be compromised. Such involved BAG members can still participate and comment on the task, however.}} As long as BAG members follow the ] of the guide, everything should be fine. &#32;<span style="font-variant:small-caps; whitespace:nowrap;">] {] · ] · ] · ]}</span> 23:03, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
:::Well, as I said, I've wondered about that on and off over the years, but yes, it was prompted by the BRFA you mention (though not necessarily because I strictly feel you did anything improper); mostly just the impetus to post. ] (]) 23:20, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
::::Heh. I'm also, ironically, reminded of ProcBot task 2 reading this. That approval took about 1.5 months. And that too because you decided to close it. If you didn't, it may well still be pending. I don't think we have enough active BAG to have the luxury of being overtly picky w.r.t. 2/3, but it depends on the extent maybe. At the same time, I think the closing BAG can be trusted to know when their judgement may be compromised. I don't think the BAGs responsible for my task 2, or my task 5, had compromised judgement due to their (relatively) minor roles in the tasks. It also becomes a bit of a cycle: there's only a few active BAG, so if turning to one for advice in their capacity as {{tq|offer sound bot-related advice to bot operators, admins, bureaucrats, and editors alike}}, or in their capacity as technically proficient in a certain area, makes them have to recuse it's a net negative to the bot's BRFA and also a net negative to its good development (if it makes an operator avoid seeking advice, so they won't have to wait months for review).
::::At the same time, I think minimal involvement (eg just in proposing a BOTREQ) may be a positive. It means a person has perhaps already done a bit of vetting on the proposal's technical feasibility, and where technical errs may arise, and perhaps thought about some edge cases too. That seems an advantage in BRFA review, compared to someone having to jump in blind. Depending on extent, again, of course. ] (]) 01:14, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
:With regards to (2), I think the standard should be similar to closing any other discussion, i.e., avoid using BAG authority wen ]. So if a BAG member has given an opinion similar to a support or oppose !vote, that member should not be approving the bot as they're pretty classically involved. I think this is weaker for interim actions like trials and responding to requests (per ]), but for final actions such as approval and rejection, the appearance of impartiality should be maintained. <span style="white-space: nowrap;">— ]]​</span> 01:12, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
:: IMO the interpretation of ] there is too strict. If a BAG member saying "I think this is a good idea" somewhere is enough to disqualify them, we'd quickly run out of BAG members available to approve things since it's not uncommon for people to run their ideas by other editors before putting in all the work of actually coding a bot and starting a BRFA. ]] 01:31, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
:::Yeah, there's enough nuance and leeway that it's a lot more obvious now to me (as per usual) that it's something best dealt with on a case-by-case basis. Thanks all for the thoughts. ] (]) 02:16, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

== Edit summaries ==


== Has an editor ever applied per ] or ] ==
Someone pinged me on IRC the other day to discuss edit summaries; they had seen a bot not linking to a related BRFA and wasn't sure if it was "legally" operating (it was, but it took some digging). However, it got me thinking that we should be better enforcing either mandatory links to BRFAs in edit summaries, or mandatory links to BRFAs on the bot's userpage. Personally, I think both should be happening, but I know for some long-term bots like lowercasesigma or AnomieBOT they're well-established and don't necessarily need to link to specific runs. That being said, I've been encouraging new bots/operators to be linking in their summaries.


I am wondering if an editor was ever encouraged to apply per the MEATBOT or MASSCREATE policy. As far as I know I believe not, but maybe I am wrong.] (]) 16:41, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
Should we be mandating either of these disclosures, and if so do we have the authority to block bots if their operators are not complying? I know we're in the CREEP land of instruction, because ] ''implies'' that these links should be provided but don't really go into detail about where and how, but I think it's a reasonable point of clarification. ] (]) 11:03, 16 November 2020 (UTC) {{small|For what it's worth, I posted it here instead of at BOTPOL because it's more about clarifying how we as BAG deal with these issues than necessarily updating the policy}}
:Applied for (or to) what? ] (]) 17:07, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
: ] only requires that the userpage specify (directly or via link) details of the bot's tasks, including whether it's manually assisted or runs automatically and how often it runs. The easiest way to do this is to link to the BRFAs, but such links are not actually required. As for edit summaries, it only requires "informative messages, appropriately worded". Unless the bot's approval (or other community consensus) required something more than that for a bot, I don't think we have authority to block bots not going beyond these requirements. ]] 14:03, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
::] includes:
: I'm not a huge fan of instruction creep, but it should be easy for an editor to find out why a bot is making an edit; this shouldn't require jumping through a lot of hoops. A link to the BRFA in the edit summary is fine, but prominently linking the bot's tasks on the bot userpage should suffice as well. If a bot does many different things, we should enforce (at least on NEW bots) that this is easy to tell. I'm preferential to to using a task link for any edit/log like I've done here: ] on my own bot. As far as single function bots, they generally have a bot template on their userpage that links to their BRFA already. — ] <sup>]</sup> 14:56, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
::''Editors who choose to use semi-automated tools to assist their editing should be aware that processes which operate at higher speeds, with a higher volume of edits, or with less human involvement are more likely to be treated as bots. If there is any doubt, you should make a ].''
::Edit summary linking can get complex fast for bots that are doing many things at once. A bot could be taking care of Task #4 and Task #18 in one edit, and then Task #3 and Task #12 in another. Depending on how a bot is coded, having a dynamic edit summary linking to specific BRFAs depending on which specific tasks happened to trigger an edit is either impossible to implement without refactoring the entire codebase, or a ''huge'' time sink with little to no payoff. If you have your BRFAs listed on the bot talk page, that's enough. If you have a question about a specific edit, you can always ask the bot op. &#32;<span style="font-variant:small-caps; whitespace:nowrap;">] {] · ] · ] · ]}</span> 02:04, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
::] begins with:
:::It doesn't need to be perfect, but imo an indicator would be ideal. It's also more appropriate in some situations than others. For example, ] clerking a projectspace noticeboard with a clear edit summary, or ] clerking ] with "4 reports remaining. Noticeboard is backlogged." - neither of which needs a link imo - is quite different from a bot like ] or a similar bot with a lot of approvals, many of which have overlaps in scope with another, and is actively operating in mainspace. A big point of BRFA, imo, is transparency. Yes, one can go to the bot's userpage and look at the tasks, but there are times when it's unclear which task actually relates to an edit.{{pb}}Two big effects of this I think. First, it takes more effort to find the BRFA behind an edit and read up more on the task, perhaps comments there address a concern the person was about to raise. Second, it becomes harder for editors to tell if a bot is making (un)authorised edits. When you have a complex web of BRFAs, it's very easy for a non-technical editor to mistakingly believe an edit is authorised (when it isn't), or vice versa think that an edit isn't authorised (when it actually is). I agree on Headbomb's point that for bots doing multiple tasks in one edit this may be technically more difficult. I think it's worth discussing in relation to BOTPOL though, and would be an improvement in transparency. ] (]) 19:59, 20 November 2020 (UTC)
::''Any large-scale automated or semi-automated content page creation task must be approved at ]..''
::::Well, the "General notice to bot owners about edit summaries" link at the top of ] says everything that really needs to be said IMO. But feel free to start a discussion at ] if you think more is needed. &#32;<span style="font-variant:small-caps; whitespace:nowrap;">] {] · ] · ] · ]}</span> 23:39, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
::It ends with:
::''Note that while the ]-like creation of non-content pages (such as redirects from systematic names, or maintenance categories) is not required to go through a formal BRFA by default, ] still applies''
::] ends with
::''Note that high-speed semi-automated editing may effectively be considered bots in some cases (see ]), even if performed by a human editor. If in doubt, check''
::So has any editor applied for permission per those policies? ] (]) 18:55, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
:::Probably. I'd look through ] (or ) to see if anything fits that bill. ] (]) 19:25, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
::::Thanks. If have searched the archive and there were no requests based on those three policies. ] over MASSCREATE concerns and , but not in the requests. BOTUSE I didn't find at all. ] (]) 02:50, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
:::I don't remember a time where it got to a BRFA, or at least a successful BRFA. I can certainly recall plenty coming over to ] and ask how they would go about it (like ] from a user under a page creation ban), and invariably they were asked 'do you have consensus for this?', and pointed to WikiProjects or ]. And there's certainly blocks that have been issues over it. &#32;<span style="font-variant:small-caps; whitespace:nowrap;">] {] · ] · ] · ]}</span> 21:22, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
:::: I recall there have been a few requests for doing semi-automated edits. And there was at least one thread on ] where someone was asking about creations but wound up not going to BRFA. ]] 23:37, 20 July 2023 (UTC)


== Bots without wikidata account might disconnect interwiki links after (mass) moving articles to a different name ==
== Legally mandated deletion of all online news content by German state broadcasters ==


Hello, if a bot does not have a wikidata account it might disconnect all the interwiki links (i.e. wikidata item sitelink) if it is (mass) moving articles to a different name. For details please see:
All German state broadcasters have to follow a 2009 law that they need to delete all online content after a year, so as not to "disadvantage" commercial news corporations. ("12. ]" <nowiki>]<nowiki>]</nowiki>, 1 June 2009)<br />
{{Tracked|T143486}}
This has big consequences for Misplaced Pages when they cite news from German state broadcasters:
* https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T143486
It means legally mandated automatic link rot for such sources.
* ]
I suggest a bot that recognizes when ] is cited and automatically requests a save point from the Internet Archive, then links the save point in the ref.
* ]
* ]
* ]
* ]
] (]) 12:30, 3 April 2024 (UTC)


== How do I turn my python script into a wiki bot ==
Also see the ] <nowiki>]<nowiki>]</nowiki>: The whole German article is about this novel concept brought up the 2009 law.--] (]) 00:26, 27 June 2021 (UTC)


Hello, a pleasure to meet you all; I have this python script: https://github.com/claeslindhardt/CellFamilyTree which automatically updates the list in ], how would I go about turning it into a wikibot, so that the list is automatically updated every 6 months without me running it? and is there any changes/updates I should do to my code before I upload it is as a bot? ] (]) 16:15, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
:Do we have a way to find and recognize all of these sources? Are we just searching for certain URL prefixes? <small>] <small><sup>Need help? ''']'''</sup></small></small> 00:28, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 16:22, 1 May 2024

ShortcutThis is the talk page for the Bot Approvals Group and is specifically to discuss issues related to the BAG. At the moment there is no formal policy for adding and removing members of the approvals group, but one will likely be formulated in the future. This is, however, the correct page to discuss member changes.
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BAG Nominations


Requests for BAG membership

See also: Previous nominations

Requests to join the Bot Approvals Group are currently made here, although other methods have been proposed. Users wishing to join BAG, or to nominate another user to become a member, should start a new nomination page via the form below (replacing "UserName" with the nominee's) and transclude the discussion in a section below. Please note that notification to WP:AN, WP:VPM, WT:BOTPOL, and WP:BON is required. After a suitable length of time (usually one week unless the nomination has not received a reasonable level of support), the discussion will be closed by a bureaucrat.



Other discussion

Has an editor ever applied per WP:MEATBOT or WP:MASSCREATE

I am wondering if an editor was ever encouraged to apply per the MEATBOT or MASSCREATE policy. As far as I know I believe not, but maybe I am wrong.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 16:41, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Applied for (or to) what? Primefac (talk) 17:07, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
WP:MEATBOT includes:
Editors who choose to use semi-automated tools to assist their editing should be aware that processes which operate at higher speeds, with a higher volume of edits, or with less human involvement are more likely to be treated as bots. If there is any doubt, you should make a bot approval request.
WP:MASSCREATE begins with:
Any large-scale automated or semi-automated content page creation task must be approved at Misplaced Pages:Bots/Requests for approval..
It ends with:
Note that while the WP:MEATBOT-like creation of non-content pages (such as redirects from systematic names, or maintenance categories) is not required to go through a formal BRFA by default, WP:MEATBOT still applies
WP:BOTUSE ends with
Note that high-speed semi-automated editing may effectively be considered bots in some cases (see WP:MEATBOT), even if performed by a human editor. If in doubt, check
So has any editor applied for permission per those policies? Paradise Chronicle (talk) 18:55, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
Probably. I'd look through Category:Misplaced Pages bot requests for approval (or search it) to see if anything fits that bill. Primefac (talk) 19:25, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
Thanks. If have searched the archive and there were no requests based on those three policies. One was declined over MASSCREATE concerns and MEATBOT was mentioned a few times, but not in the requests. BOTUSE I didn't find at all. Paradise Chronicle (talk) 02:50, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
I don't remember a time where it got to a BRFA, or at least a successful BRFA. I can certainly recall plenty coming over to WP:BOTN and ask how they would go about it (like Misplaced Pages:Bot_requests/Archive_79#Civil parish bot from a user under a page creation ban), and invariably they were asked 'do you have consensus for this?', and pointed to WikiProjects or WP:VPT. And there's certainly blocks that have been issues over it. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 21:22, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
I recall there have been a few requests for doing semi-automated edits. And there was at least one thread on WP:BOTN where someone was asking about creations but wound up not going to BRFA. Anomie⚔ 23:37, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Bots without wikidata account might disconnect interwiki links after (mass) moving articles to a different name

Hello, if a bot does not have a wikidata account it might disconnect all the interwiki links (i.e. wikidata item sitelink) if it is (mass) moving articles to a different name. For details please see:

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T143486

M2k~dewiki (talk) 12:30, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

How do I turn my python script into a wiki bot

Hello, a pleasure to meet you all; I have this python script: https://github.com/claeslindhardt/CellFamilyTree which automatically updates the list in List of distinct cell types in the adult human body, how would I go about turning it into a wikibot, so that the list is automatically updated every 6 months without me running it? and is there any changes/updates I should do to my code before I upload it is as a bot? Claes Lindhardt (talk) 16:15, 1 May 2024 (UTC)