Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 15:55, 13 April 2007

Scientologist. Feel free to ask questions.

Watchlist

Hi COFS , Welcome to WP! Jpierreg 03:30, 15 February 2007 (GMT)

Thanks! COFS 06:00, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject updates

• I have done some updating to the WP:SCN, added some new articles, added a "to do" list to the top of the project, and fixed up some categories and assessment stuff. I suggest we should all pick one article at a time, or at most two, to work on bringing up to Featured Article status. You could give input on the project's talk page... Smee 21:04, 9 March 2007 (UTC).
  • Also, a Userbox for project members, {{User Scientology project}} Smee 21:04, 9 March 2007 (UTC).

Quentin Hubbard

It's widely sourced that Quentin is gay. As you are a Scientologist yourself, I can't help but see your motivations and would like to ask your from refraining in removing the LGBT people category from this article as it belongs there just as much as say, Rock Hudson's article. It's fact, not allegation. ~Zythe 22:44, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

What has gay to do with me being a Scientologist? And as for "facts" in the article, I invite you to familiarize with WP:ATTRIB or WP:RS and have a look at WP:BIAS. COFS 21:28, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm well aware of all those. And I'm not biased, I just think it's sourced very heavily. Also, your comment on my talk page was very rude, but nevermind.~Zythe 16:40, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Removal of sources on Inside Scientology

Hi,

I can't help but notice you removed "ref overkill" from this article. There is no wiki policy regarding "too many references", in fact, the feeling generally is "the more the merrier!". Furthermore, as you quite openly self-identify as a Scientologist, and given the fact that most of your edits revolve around the CoS in some way, the removal of such links could be easily interpreted as a conflict of interest.

I don't want to discourage you from working on these articles, but please keep Wiki policies like NPOV in mind.

Thanks!

Lankiveil 12:13, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi, if you would go into the actual changes you would see that I removed doubles and triples of the same source text and left the ones which were from reliable sources while the others were not. If you criticize me for applying Misplaced Pages Policy in uncluttering articles and evaluate at the same time my religious affiliation I cannot help but reminding you that you are getting close to violate Misplaced Pages Policy geared to prevent discrimination on here. I am interested in learning Misplaced Pages Policy and for sure I would not claim that I am not in error here and there. But unless you are able to point out the exact violation please refrain yourself from personal comments. Thanks, COFS 21:13, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Removal of navigational boxes

• Please discuss on the talk page of {{ScientologySeries}}, instead of summarily removing navigational boxes without discussion. Some people have worked really hard on these. Thanks. Smee 04:35, 26 March 2007 (UTC).

I thought there was a consensus that the bottom box is being used?! I missed the discussion that time but would have supported it. "Further reading" is always at the bottom or end of articles. The color is still a problem but that is a different discussion. COFS 04:40, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Please revert your mass removal of the box that other users have worked hard on, and instead discuss at Template talk:ScientologySeries. Thanks. Smee 04:42, 26 March 2007 (UTC).

• COFS, I am not comfortable at this point in time to converse via email. Please instead take all of your concerns to the discussion page, Template talk:ScientologySeries. I will respect the unwritten rule, and not mention directly what you wrote in the email, but I highly suggest you bring all of those points to the talk page. Thank you. Smee 05:34, 26 March 2007 (UTC).

Sorry, I am not comfortable to go over this with everybody. COFS 04:17, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Alright, I take it that means you do not wish for me to reveal what was said? By default, without your say, I will not. Yours, Smee 06:48, 29 March 2007 (UTC).

Tks. COFS 03:24, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Your mass removal of links to {{tl:ScientologySeries}} and to sites that you don't agree with must stop. You are misinterpreting policy on NPOV -- it doesn't mean "I get to remove whatever I disagree with". Cleduc 18:13, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

I understand, but you are mistaken. The site I remove is officially an anti-Scientology site which keeps Black lists of Scientologists. It is run by Kristi Wachter (as a private enterprise) whose main activity in regards to Scientology is to picket in front of Scientology members and yell at them. If this is not biased/slanted in the direction of unreliable behavior and thus totally violating WP:NPOV, WP:BIAS and WP:PG (Pt. 5), there is no hope for Misplaced Pages to ever become a resource of knowledge. It is good for giggles right now but if the Wachter's and Lerma's hateful views on a subject are presented as "RS", Misplaced Pages is not RS anymore itself. COFS 18:19, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

As for the boxes, I am removing double entries here. There is a box at the bottom of the article and one at the side of it, both with identical content. One must go and in the tradition of good old books I prefer an index at the end of an article and not in the middle of it. It looks trashy and degrades the articles., especially the stub/short ones. COFS 18:22, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Last comment here: WP:EL says under the heading of links to be avoided: "Links to blogs and personal web pages, except those written by a recognized authority." Wachter is far from being an authority and it is undoubtedly a private website. If such crap link is passed, the only consequence would be to include pro-Scientology links to personal blogs and private websites of Scientologists. There are thousands of them on the Internet. Is that what you would prefer? Misplaced Pages is trashed with links to biased and hateful sites which only sometimes come along with a "neutral" cloaking. So, think it over and let me know. COFS 18:43, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Your removal of links

Please stop going through articles deleting links while using plainly bogus edit summaries (e.g. "vandalism removed"). There may be an issue with whether the links are needed, but you should discuss this with other editors rather than going on a controversial link-deleting spree. -- ChrisO 18:45, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

I noticed. And send you an email as requested. Appreciated that you are caring. But I also notice that you picked up the ONE different edit summary (of 51 total) to criticize me. How about turning REALLY neutral? COFS 18:49, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Mass-deleting links from controversial articles without discussing tends to upset people. You have a better chance of convincing people that those links need to come out if, you know, you actually discuss the matter with them first. I'm sympathetic to your concerns, but let's not do this in a way that will just get people annoyed with you. -- ChrisO 18:54, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Got your point. This is going to take aaages! But fine. I have to go to work now, will be back some time tonight. So long, lad. COFS 18:56, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

OK, no problem. I'll unblock you in the meantime. -- ChrisO 18:58, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Catherine Bell

Hi! You removed the source for Catherine Bell's status in scientology. Your reasoning makes sense, but can you provide a reliable source for the date of her entry into Scientology and her status as a Clear? If you'd like to dicuss this further, please do so on the talk page for the Catherine Bell article. Enuja 19:18, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

She is not clear, as far as I know. Why don't you ask her. Or google for her, she is quite active as a Scientologist. COFS 03:07, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Ask for Source 139 in your nearest org. You'll notice that she is indeed clear. "as far as I know" is not really a source - it is very likely that for whatever reason, she didn't contact you when she went clear to tell you these "good news". --Tilman 18:23, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

You might consider yourself a cynic, but that is not true. You are a just a poor joke. COFS 18:33, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

I think I do not understand your argument there. My point is that her being clear is properly sourced, while "as far as I know she is not" isn't. --Tilman 18:42, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Removals

Please see User talk:ChrisO#COFS removal of non-RS, POV, Scientologist "outing site" and my talk. --Justanother 21:17, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

WP:NPA warning

This comment in the edit summary: you must be on drugs or you did not read the book is uncalled for. Please respect WP:NPA. --Tilman 18:20, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

In the US this is a pretty normal saying. Sorry, I forgot for a moment that you are coming from this country where the Nazis ruled not long ago. COFS 18:23, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

And that statement you just made is also a highly inappropriate personal attack. Comment on content, not contributors. Thanks. Smee 18:26, 9 April 2007 (UTC).

Spreading hate sites is not debatable content. It falls back on the "contributor" and his motives. And yours as well. What agenda are you running here? COFS 18:29, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

There is no hate site. As I explained to you, the site has compiled information from official scientology publications. --Tilman 18:52, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Reported for 3RR Violations

• You have been reported for violating WP:3RR. Please see WP:AN/3RR. Thank you. Smee 18:33, 9 April 2007 (UTC).

Thanks for watching. COFS 18:35, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Checking the times, you actually gave a bit of an answer on the question above. Does your agenda relate to silencing those who try to uncover the anti-Scientology scam on Misplaced Pages? COFS 18:53, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

I will not respond to violations of WP:NPA. Smee 18:55, 9 April 2007 (UTC).

There have not been any violations of WP:NPA. But you do respond in your own way, by reporting 3RR without warning, by smearing me on the Admin board. That it your way. I prefer direct and straight talk. COFS 18:58, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

You should really take the time to read WP:NPA. Please do also observe the dialogue between other scientology critics and scientologists in other discussions. You will notice that it is often very civil, despite what the people may really be thinking about each other. It is certainly helpful to avoid these personal attacks in a "closed" environment like Misplaced Pages, where the "valuable final product" (to use a scientology expression) are excellent articles. --Tilman 19:03, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

WP:NPA warning (2)

This remark you are coming from this country where the Nazis ruled not long ago is uncalled for. Please respect WP:NPA. --Tilman 18:39, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Why, is this not true? I tell you one last thing, Tilman: The way you treat Scientologists, your arrogant cynicism, in your personal article on Misplaced Pages (and backing website) and in your behavior in repeatedly violating WP:EL, is absolutely uncalled for and violates any good manners you might have been trained in as a kid. COFS 18:50, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

I have been nice within wikipedia. My personal article in wikipedia is edited by others (I have understood months ago that it's not a small no-no, but a BIG NO-NO to edit there myself). I also believe that I have taken care not to violate WP:EL. --Tilman 18:58, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Putting personal websites (back) in articles in a violation of WP:EL. Learn. COFS 18:59, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Blocked

DES 19:16, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

COFS, you might want to check out this. I am not a supporter of the cabal theories on Misplaced Pages, but this one might be worth a better look. CSI LA 23:42, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Looks like the whole copyright discussion is none. Clear legal status here. Thanks, DES. COFS 20:49, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. My interest in that page was in correcting misinformation about copyright law (I subject I have soem knowledge of) and not particualrly in Scientology, for or against. It is pure coincidience that I was involved with both that page and your 3RR situation. DES 21:19, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Please stop your vandalism

I ask you to stop vandalizing the Free Zone (Scientology) article. You removed the freezoneamerica link and the Idenics link. Idenics is a freezone practice. --Fahrenheit451 22:57, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

First, look up WP:VANDAL. You have misunderstoods sitting there. Then, look at WP:EL, because the whole article has NO CONTENT but is a link list and should be nixed since a long time. Start providing information about this practice that would justify a link to more information. Start providing ANY CONTENT about your group. Otherwise you are susceptible to the accusation of commercial promotion. COFS 23:04, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

There are no misunderstoods, COFS. You removed links without a discussion. That is what vandals do. You are clearly not a neutral editor here. There is no commercial promotion any more than a link to a cofs group is a commercial promotion.--Fahrenheit451 23:11, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

You have no say on this if your only contribution to this article is the addition of more promotional links instead of beefing up the article with some CONTENT. You are not neutral on this page nor on any other Scientology-related issue and I would not expect that (how should that work) but I am calling on you to at least SHARE YOUR INFORMATION in an encyclopedic article. I am not editing the article because I probably could not refrain from snide remarks and I have not enough information about you guys to structure a whole article. But you can and you are not doing it. COFS 23:17, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

It appears to me that you do not understand what the word "content" means. Links are valid content as well. You cannot cite a wikipedia policy stating to the contrary because such a policy does not exist. Please be civil in your discussions.--Fahrenheit451 23:21, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Itis not true, that "links are content": WP:NOT#DIR. Can't you write ANYTHING? Check it out, I just put some content in there. COFS 23:28, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Your citation does not refute that links are not content. If you are truly curious about my editing, I suggest you look at my user contributions. In the meantime, I advise you to knock off your incivility.--Fahrenheit451 00:24, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

I am not curious about your editing. I just do not accept articles to be "Directories". If I'd agree to that I could add hundreds of links to the Scientology articles. WP:CIVIL Yes, Sir. Now, how about adding some content to the FZ article? COFS 00:40, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

To quote you, "Can't you write ANYTHING?" As you deny you are curious about my editing, I take your remark as incivility. Knock it off. Also, I choose which articles I edit. Your agenda is for you.--Fahrenheit451 00:53, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Over and out. COFS 00:55, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Smee's interpretations of NPA

• Please Stop. Take the time to read through Misplaced Pages:No Personal Attacks. This DIFF is highly inappropriate. Smee 02:47, 11 April 2007 (UTC).
  • Huh? What are you talking about Smee. She is not attacking another editor. She is not even attacking Kristi which might be a WP:BLP vio but it is not as there is no attack. False accusation of WP:PA is serious business. Please be more circumspect and stop looking to get other editors that you do not like in trouble. --Justanother 04:30, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

I am confused and could not find relief in re-reading WP:NPA. Are we looking at the same DIFF, i.e. :this one here:

Tilman about KW's site: "It is not a personal site." That is interesting. So it is governmental? Educational? Commercial? Kristi Wachter's Scientologist Smearing Service Ltd.? She must spend a lot of time doing that and I always wondered who pays her - a non-Scientologist with a broke record label and no relation to Scientology at all - to do all the smear work. Quite interesting. Tilman, are you planning to come to the US in the next weeks? COFS 21:18, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

I do not know why you feel attacked by this statement (or any Wiki editor working on the Catherine Bell article). Kristi is known to smear Scientologists in her own cynic way (and that is easy to document, simply Google her or just by going on her sites). She runs several websites with the sole and advertised purpose to stop Scientology. She has every right to have her own opinion about Scientology and say it to whoever listens but normally people are not that hyperactive about such issues without untold motives, like a personal story or being paid. It does not matter much for Misplaced Pages since the motive and the fact that the website is personal does disqualify it as a reliable source. Why Tilman does not agree, well, I don't know. COFS 04:29, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

• I always wondered who pays her - a non-Scientologist with a broke record label and no relation to Scientology at all - to do all the smear work. Quite interesting. Tilman, are you planning to come to the US in the next weeks? - If this is not a personal attack, what specifically were you implying and attempting to convey when you wrote this and clicked the save button??? Smee 07:07, 11 April 2007 (UTC).
  • Kristi is not an acknowledged editor here so NPA does not apply to her. Do you mean asking Tilman about coming to the US? What in the world is wrong with that? His trip(s) to the US to picket Scientology churches is/are documented on his website. Please stop trying to get other editors in trouble and please stop trying to score points for future trouble, especially by misrepresentation and false accusation. --Justanother 12:36, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
    • This is a done deal. The commentary was obviously highly inappropriate, and was not about the content of the article, but about attacking individuals. Let's all just leave it at that. Thanks. Smee 19:14, 11 April 2007 (UTC).
      • OK, you are wrong. This thread is done (laff). --Justanother 21:11, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
        • Though I respect your opinion, it is you who are wrong. This thread is done. Thanks. Smee 21:17, 11 April 2007 (UTC).
          • No, you are wrong. This thread is done (laff). Seriously, would you care to make any argument to support your claim or does just baldly stating something work for you? You might want to start by looking at WP:NPA, which clearly states:

            This page discusses personal attacks made against other editors. For attacks against living people who are the subjects of articles, see Misplaced Pages:Biographies of living persons.

            How do you work that into your charge of WP:PA or does "this thread is done" mean that you do not have to? --Justanother 22:36, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
• The user in question has been warned in the past. This further continuation of this thread is bull-baiting, and I will not be a party to it. Suffice it to say that there seems to be a pattern among certain editors of baiting and incivility, and discussion of contributors rather than content of articles. Smee 22:38, 11 April 2007 (UTC).
  • So let me see if I have this straight. You falsely accuse another editor of WP:PA and when asked to justify the accusation you bring up their past history and spout generalities and try to end the conversation. Gotcha. We can be done now if you like. Just so we are straight. --Justanother 23:32, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Ahem... thank you very much for the attention. The curtain is down now and the audience has left. Good Night! COFS 23:36, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

• Just so we are all straight, the user was engaging in baiting, using highly inappropriate language, and discussing the contributor when the user should have instead been disucssing content, as per the verbatim text with emphasis in the original at Misplaced Pages:No Personal Attacks. Just so we are straight. Thanks. Smee 23:38, 11 April 2007 (UTC).
  • The only comment on a contributer was asking Tilman if he was coming to the US in the next weeks. What is wrong with that? What am I missing here? --Justanother 23:41, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Smee, please go home. The party was nice but I would really like to have my talk page back. COFS 23:42, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I will respect that request. Smee 23:42, 11 April 2007 (UTC).

Warning about Legal Threats

COFS, you are warned to knock off your legal threats Misplaced Pages:No legal threats. Here is the discussion Template_talk:ScientologySeries#Added_.5B.5BDead_File.5D.5D_to_template. --Fahrenheit451 23:31, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Ok, harm yourself, get toasted. It's your right, who cares. You seem to have the wrong concept here that I would be the one doing legal action. I am not. Got no money, time and desire to nurture attorneys. You are not free however to intentionally misinterpret WP:NLT just to be able to attack me. This is rude and anti-community. COFS 01:05, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Who would "toast" me, COFS? Who are you refering to? --Fahrenheit451 01:22, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

There is your problem. You seem to identify me with something or someone else. I am not "toasting" anyone. I am editing articles. And if you are about to get yourself in trouble, I drop you a note to let you know. But not anymore, since you very obviously do not appreciate that. COFS 01:35, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

• COFS, please see comments by other editors way before you made your veiled threats, at: Misplaced Pages talk:No legal threats. See where the 2 editors discuss "veiled legal threats" and where one says: "veiled threats are, nevertheless, threats". You are on shaky ground. Stop now. Thanks. Smee 01:24, 13 April 2007 (UTC).

Thanks for the link. Shows you in action again. COFS 01:35, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

F451

Hi F451. I moved your stuff over here. COFS 03:09, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Stop vandalizing discussion

COFS, Stop blanking and moving discussions from their proper pages.--Fahrenheit451 03:26, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

I merged two games you want to play with me as they were almost identical. Did I screw up the processing composition or whatever you guys call that? COFS 03:30, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

PS, I saw you deleted it now on the other page. So YOU are the one having blanketed a whole discussion. Are you PTS or what? COFS 03:34, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

No you just demonstrated disruptive editing.--Fahrenheit451 03:35, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

You are so boring. I am going now back to editing articles. Over and out. COFS 03:37, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Glad to hear you are going back to editing. I moved the discussion you blanked to User:Fahrenheit451. When you are ready to answer the questions in that discussion, please let me know.--Fahrenheit451 03:41, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I saw that. You didn't accept the missing part on there and Smee blanketed my data from your page, so I left whatever there was on your talk page. COFS 04:16, 13 April 2007 (UTC) I just saw that you claim your user page as vandalized when I tried to put the discussion on there (which you started and removed from the template page). This is so kindergarten level, unbelievable. But good to know what you are up to. That's it then. COFS 04:18, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

I am here to edit. You have indicated that you have some other agenda here. That is not lasting.--Fahrenheit451 04:21, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

I wish you were here to edit and I wish I had some other agenda than to improve articles. Would make me less pissed off every time somebody comes along and tries to inject BIAS in an article. By the way. Stop violating WP:NPA, this is my last warning. Thank you. COFS 04:26, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

I am warning YOU to not edit my user page. I am warning you to not disruptively edit article or template discussion pages by selectively removing materials or adding irrelevant material from another discussion. You do that and there is greater possibility that we get along.--Fahrenheit451 04:37, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

You are doing this after the fact that you smeered me allover of the Admin notice board, after the fact that you attacked me several times very personally and after the fact that you tricked me using your user page to answer questions which you promptly re-defined as vandalism. Your behavior is not appropriate. COFS 04:44, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

I reported your policy violations on the Admin notice board and you are fantasizing or lying about my attacking you. That's a good one, COFS, you blame me for your vandalizing my user page. That is a rather irresponsible attitude. Both you and I know that you may comment on my talk page, but user pages are off-limits to other users. Who is your osa handler?--Fahrenheit451 15:55, 13 April 2007 (UTC)