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Revision as of 16:58, 14 April 2007 editJonesRD (talk | contribs)304 edits Retain/include disputed section← Previous edit Revision as of 20:41, 14 April 2007 edit undoMihai cartoaje (talk | contribs)704 edits Comments: + info on JonesRDNext edit →
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::The violence section was originally titled ''Schizophrenia and crime'' and added by an anonymous editor who wrote the people with schizophrenia are "genetic junk" . As you can see, it is genocide propaganda. --] 20:15, 13 April 2007 (UTC) ::The violence section was originally titled ''Schizophrenia and crime'' and added by an anonymous editor who wrote the people with schizophrenia are "genetic junk" . As you can see, it is genocide propaganda. --] 20:15, 13 April 2007 (UTC)


====Comment==== ====Comments====
RalphLender and DPeterson have been the object of a suspected sockpuppetry report. We don't have the results of the RFCU yet. More information is here: . --] RalphLender and DPeterson have been the object of a suspected sockpuppetry report. We don't have the results of the RFCU yet. More information is here: . --]
:And the result was the fact that this was not the case...that I am not related to RalphLender and that we are separate individuals. Your accusattion is not only unfounded but is antithetical to wiki policy in that it is irrelvant and and does not ] and is a ] <font color="Red">]</font><sup>]</sup> 01:50, 6 January 2007 (UTC) :And the result was the fact that this was not the case...that I am not related to RalphLender and that we are separate individuals. Your accusattion is not only unfounded but is antithetical to wiki policy in that it is irrelvant and and does not ] and is a ] <font color="Red">]</font><sup>]</sup> 01:50, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

JonesRD is one of DPeterson's Company of special-purpose accounts. Here's an explanation from an administrator: . --] 20:41, 14 April 2007 (UTC)


== viral causes discussion == == viral causes discussion ==

Revision as of 20:41, 14 April 2007

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should be archived

This talk page is already 181 kilobytes long. Shouldn't it be archived? It makes it slow to edit here. —Cesar Tort 22:37, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

That sounds fine to me; how is this done?DPeterson 23:09, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
I can do it. But first I'd like to know if there are no objections. —Cesar Tort 23:15, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Good idea Cesar. No objections from me. - Vaughan 23:40, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
OK: I’ll do it. —Cesar Tort 00:22, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
NO!!! Don't do it! the government will kill me if you do!!!!—PoidLover

Disputed material

It seems that it is the following that is disputed:

Schizophrenia and violence

<snip>


However, as pointed out above, this issue has been discussed in the Request for Comment.RalphLender 17:01, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Retain/include disputed section

  1. RalphLender 17:01, 15 November 2006 (UTC)the material is well referenced with reliable and verifiable sources. In addition, the RFC clearly shows that the vast majority of editors want the material included, based on reliable and valid and verifiable sources.
  2. Per above and arguments raised in previous RFC. --Muchness 17:20, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
  3. (uncivil comment removed) The section is referenced by the latest review articles in the area, and refutes the myth that people with schizophrenia are necessarily violent. - Vaughan 19:35, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
  4. Yes, include and keep...this material is verifiable. If an editor disputes it, better to include/add alternative material with appropriate sources and references which meets the Misplaced Pages standard of being verifiable. DPeterson 13:28, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
  5. YES It is valuable and factual information and should be included. That other articles do or do not include information about violence is not relevant to this discussion. The material meets Wiki standards for inclusionJonesRDtalk 16:58, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Exclude/delete disputed section

  1. No other article has violence statistics. --Mihai cartoaje 23:04, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
The violence section was originally titled Schizophrenia and crime and added by an anonymous editor who wrote the people with schizophrenia are "genetic junk" . As you can see, it is genocide propaganda. --Mihai cartoaje 20:15, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Comments

RalphLender and DPeterson have been the object of a suspected sockpuppetry report. We don't have the results of the RFCU yet. More information is here: . --Mihai cartoaje

And the result was the fact that this was not the case...that I am not related to RalphLender and that we are separate individuals. Your accusattion is not only unfounded but is antithetical to wiki policy in that it is irrelvant and and does not assume good faith and is a personal attack DPeterson 01:50, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

JonesRD is one of DPeterson's Company of special-purpose accounts. Here's an explanation from an administrator: . --Mihai cartoaje 20:41, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

viral causes discussion

In the recently archived discussion someone made a mention of a problem in the viral etiology discussion, where one writer wrote, "viral infections during the third trimester (4-6 months) of pregnancy." This was clearly an error as the third trimester of pregnancy is from the 6th to the 9th month of pregnancy. In researching the the references listed, as well as a web search, all references to this issue state that, "Patients whose mothers were in their second trimester of pregnancy (between four and six months pregnant) during the epidemic were more likely to be diagnosed schizophrenic than those whose mothers were in their first or third trimester or those born before the virus appeared http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1175/is_n3_v22/ai_6406131 ." Since edits are disabled by non-registered users, can someone make that correction please? It should read, "Some researchers postulate that the correlation is due to viral infections during the second trimester (4-6 months) of pregnancy." Actually, strictly speaking, there is no reference for what "some researchers postulate," so a better edit would remove that phrase and replace it with something like, "Some studies have shown that the correlation is due to viral infections during the second trimester (4-6 months) of pregnancy." and then reference Brown, A.S. (2006) Prenatal infection as a risk factor for schizophrenia. Schizophrenia Bulletin, 32 (2), 200-2, which is reference 35 on the reference list. RAA 65.10.35.73 06:29, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Drugs effect on negative symptoms

It says that antipsychotic medication is less usefull against negative symptoms than positive symptoms. These drugs may create negative symptoms. So it should not be hinted that the drugs are somewhat helpfull against negative symptoms.

Eugen Bleuler phrase

why it was deleted ??? He wrote: "The patients that I have observed do not respond to situations as they should; they are frightened by what is not there, yet they remain indifferent to what is. It is as if they have a split mind."  ??? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.137.6.71 (talk) 14:46, 27 March 2007 (UTC).


Cannabis section: Where's NPOV?

What, is Misplaced Pages also married to Dupont's daughter? I think it should be stressed not simply that "cannabis may, if assumed causation, increased rates of schizophrenia in populations". That is not NPOV! That is starting with a conclusion and working back to a premise... This needs to be changed. Some amount of criticism is in order. Just because Steven Milloy has (dubious) "studies" to back him up, does not merit those studies being directly quoted from with no critical light cast upon them. With the hysterically over-the-top history of propaganda against this relatively harmless weed I think it is not asking too much to phrase the citation of this "study" with a little mix of what some people would call rationality. Perhaps a link to http://en.wikipedia.org/Correlation is in need. If this type of POV writing is allowed in Misplaced Pages, I might as well postulate that the increased rates of schizophrenia in populations from cannabinoids binding to CB1 and CB2 receptors (among, admittedly, others too) occurs merely because those who are already highly genetically schizophrenic practically freak out no matter what drug you give them, caffeine, cannabis, nicotine or any other. I might as will say that assuming a causation between me praying to the Easter Bunny and it raining outside, that it will rain outside. Does anyone else see the absurdity in this? Point is in a clinical condition of schizophrenia the outcome is mostly of brain chemistry which is largely determined by the large set of interacting genes we each possess as individuals. If some is not clinically schizophrenic, but still not "normal" (whatever the hell that means), then they are probably schizotypal or schizoids, etc etc. Point is, that this whole "cannabis causes mental health problems" is an old trick, which has been around for a long time. With organizations such as the UN, and many developed nations still engaging in hysterically over the top rhetoric on the affects of cannabis I am surprised that am "awarded article" such as this can get away with such blatant POV. Look, I love science--but even I know real science (when it comes to *brain chemistry*!) doesn't not entail taking cohorts and doing comparisons, that's how they market drugs like Viagra, not science. Main point: correlation people! If I was a user I would stress this article-- http://en.wikipedia.org/Correlation_causation I hope this has been helpful and not just annoying....

Schizophrenia and split-personality disorder

I was very surprised to find no mention of this, since it is a very common misconception that schizophrenia means having multiple personalities, and many people will come to the page thinknig that. I thought maybe a sentence at the end of the first paragraph to clarify this would be useful 212.32.11.115 09:37, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

The only mention is at the beginning of the article where the meaning of the Greek derivation is explained. What would you suggested adding and where? DPeterson 12:22, 3 April 2007 (UTC)


Need for editorial correction

The following sentence from the section titled "Alternative Approaches to Schizophrenia," is ambiguous. "A recent literature by scientists at Johns Hopkins University confirms some of these findings." Does this sentence refer to a literature search, or to a contribution to the literature, or what? Also, the footnote number 129 takes one to a reference to Acta Psychiatr Scand, not to a source related to Johns Hopkins University. Janice Vian, Ph.D. 00:47, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Looks like it's supposed to say "A recent literature review by...". Although the journal is Acta Psychiatrica Scandinavia, the authors affiliation is given as John Hopkins Uni.
I think that section overall does need some tightening up. For example the first sentence may give the impression that any alternatives, including all those that follow, are part of the "anti-psychiatry" movement. And actually, by what criteria does something belong in the "alternative" section rather than the main sections? EverSince 18:01, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
I agree with EverSince here. RalphLender 18:10, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Adding material

I would like to add the following to the Incidence and prevalence (without the http links) http://en.wikipedia.org/Schizophrenia#Incidence_and_prevalence

--Mark v1.0 17:18, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

1)The Soviet Union had a high prevalence of schizophrenia 5-7 per 1,000 population.

J. K. Wing, 'Psychiatry in the Soviet Union,' British Medical Journal, 9 March 1974, p. 435.

David Cohen, Soviet Psychiatry: Politics and Mental Health in the USSR Today, Paladin, London, 1989, p. 24.

A. L. Halpern, 'Current Dilemmas in the Aftermath of the US Delegation's Inspection of the Soviet Psychiatric Hospitals,' Emerging Issues For The 1990s In Psychiatry, Psychology And Law, Proceedings of the 10th Annual Congress of the Australian and New Zealand Association of Psychiatry, Psychology and Law, Melbourne, 1989, p.11.

C. Shaw, 'The World Psychiatric Association and Soviet Psychiatry' in Robert Van Voren, ed., Soviet Psychiatric Abuse in the Gorbachev Era, International Association on the Political Use of Psychiatry, Amsterdam, 1992, p. 50.

K. W. M. Fulford, A. Y. U. Smirnov, and E. Snow, 'Concepts of Disease and the Abuse of Psychiatry in the USSR,' British Journal of Psychiatry, Vol. 162, 1993, pp. 801-810.

2)In China women have a higher prevalence of schizophrenia. source The British Journal of Psychiatry http://bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/abstract/190/3/237 The Journal of the American Medical Association http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/294/5/557 http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/294/5/621

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