Revision as of 08:47, 11 November 2023 editFeydHuxtable (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users6,615 edits →Merge History of climate change policy and politics to here: oppose vote← Previous edit | Latest revision as of 14:59, 29 June 2024 edit undoLowercase sigmabot III (talk | contribs)Bots, Template editors2,293,067 editsm Archiving 2 discussion(s) to Talk:Politics of climate change/Archive 2) (bot | ||
(8 intermediate revisions by 7 users not shown) | |||
Line 1: | Line 1: | ||
{{Talk header}} | {{Talk header}} | ||
⚫ | {{Contentious topics/talk notice|cc}} | ||
{{Vital article|class=C|level=5|topic=Science|subpage=Earth science}} | |||
⚫ | {{ |
||
{{Controversial}} | {{Controversial}} | ||
{{Not a forum}} | {{Not a forum}} | ||
Line 13: | Line 12: | ||
|currentstatus= | |currentstatus= | ||
}} | }} | ||
{{WikiProject banner shell|collapsed=yes|1= | {{WikiProject banner shell|collapsed=yes|class=C|vital=yes|1= | ||
{{WikiProject Environment |
{{WikiProject Environment |importance=top}} | ||
{{WikiProject Climate change |
{{WikiProject Climate change |importance=top}} | ||
{{WikiProject Politics |
{{WikiProject Politics |importance=top}} | ||
{{WikiProject Science Policy |
{{WikiProject Science Policy|importance=top}} | ||
{{WikiProject |
{{WikiProject Economics|importance=high}} | ||
}} | }} | ||
{{section sizes}} | {{section sizes}} | ||
Line 87: | Line 86: | ||
==Wiki Education assignment: Applied Plant Ecology Winter 2022== | ==Wiki Education assignment: Applied Plant Ecology Winter 2022== | ||
{{dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment | course = Misplaced Pages:Wiki_Ed/York_University/Applied_Plant_Ecology_Winter_2022_(Winter) | assignments = ] | start_date = 2022-01-10 | end_date = 2022-04-23 }} | {{dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment | course = Misplaced Pages:Wiki_Ed/York_University/Applied_Plant_Ecology_Winter_2022_(Winter) | assignments = ] | start_date = 2022-01-10 | end_date = 2022-04-23 }} | ||
== Proposal to merge "Political economy of climate change" into this article again == | |||
{{Discussion top|result=The result of this discussion was to merge. ] (]) 14:00, 30 October 2023 (UTC)}} | |||
{{ping|Ottawajin|Cstetson|Arcahaeoindris|Sadads|FeydHuxtable|RCraig09|Bogazicili|Efbrazil}} | |||
I propose to merge ] into this article because as far as I can understand that article is much more about politics than economics. Having 2 articles about the politics is confusing. | |||
We already have ] and ] so any small bits about economics can be put in one of those - we don't need another article with the economics otherwise it will be even harder for readers to find what they need. | |||
This is much the same reasoning as I used the first time I merged it when nobody objected, and if I understand right FeydHuxtable's reason for splitting it again in 2021 was "If there's no objection, then in the next week or two I might restore the Political economy of climate change. IMO it was a good decision to move that here – but now the article has been updated, the PE content doesn't fit in so well, so for now I deleted it.". Not sure why I did not object to a split at the time or ask for clarification as I don't quite understand the split reasoning - perhaps I did not have the article on my watchlist or perhaps I missed the sentence suggesting a split amongst all the other talk in ]. | |||
Anyway I think both politics and economics have changed a bit since 2021 (mainly due to the bad actions of Vladimir Vladimirovich) so it would be good to briefly review whether we now want 1 article or 2. ] (]) 18:23, 9 October 2023 (UTC) | |||
:'''Support merge''' as you describe it, thanks for taking this on! ] (]) 17:08, 10 October 2023 (UTC) | |||
:'''Support merge'''. I'm not sure I understand the history here, but the two subjects seem integrally related, even if as set and subset. (As a general principle, I favor fewer articles.) —<span style="font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;color:dark blue;background-color:transparent;;">] (])</span> 19:40, 10 October 2023 (UTC) | |||
* '''Support'''. ] (]) 14:02, 17 October 2023 (UTC) | |||
: '''Weak oppose merge'''. In my view it's unhelpfully reductive to break down 'Political economy' into politics and economics. PE & sub variants like ] take quite different perspectives to those found in either regular political science or economics. Hence why PE & regular political science are often separate degree courses. Finding a workable solution to the lack of global cooperation on climate mitigation is a quite important issue, so I don't see why we should jam different treatments together in the same article. Rather, its seems better to follow the example of WP:RS which has for 'climate change and political economy' | |||
:Another reason for opposing merge is the gulf in quality between the two articles. The PE & CC article isnt bad, but it's largely based on sources between 10-40 years old. Whereas this article, at least when it was rewritten back in 2021, was based largely on the best available recent sources, including for example Dessler (2020) from Cambridge University Press. Merging here would also bloat this article unless much text is deleted. So keeping it separate dodges the need to delete another editors hard work, as well as best serving our readers. ] (]) 20:54, 17 October 2023 (UTC) | |||
:'''Support merge''' What's political economy even? ] (]) 11:40, 22 October 2023 (UTC) | |||
{{Discussion bottom}} | |||
== Is there a Wikignome who enjoys fixing refs? == | |||
There are Harv errors which already existed before the above merge ] (]) 15:18, 30 October 2023 (UTC) | |||
== Is this sentence in the lead correct? == | |||
It says | |||
"Yet local reductions in GHG emission that such policies achieve will not slow global warming unless the overall volume of GHG emission declines across the planet." | |||
But if x gigatonnes are emitted this year and the global emissions next year would have been x +1 gigatonnes and my country cuts 1 gigatonne so that only x gigatonnes are emitted next year in total has my country not slowed global warming? | |||
I understand that my country would not have reduced the global temperature compared to this year but that is not what the sentence is saying. Am I misunderstanding something or does the sentence need changing? ] (]) 16:22, 30 October 2023 (UTC) | |||
: Historically at least, a significant portion of local GHG emissions was achieved by offshoring heavy industry and that doesn't reduce global GHG at all, it can actually make it worse. That said, this was a good shout, I'll tweak the line in the lede to make it more accurate. ] (]) 18:28, 10 November 2023 (UTC) | |||
== Should carbon price be moved to "Regional, National and sub national" section? == | |||
Presumably there will never be an international agreement as it would be politically impossible for the USA to agree. ] (]) 16:49, 30 October 2023 (UTC) | |||
== Merge ] to here == | == Merge ] to here == | ||
Line 135: | Line 93: | ||
:'''Oppose''' because this subject is so vitally important that it deserves to be a decent length in itself on current politics without history being continually added to it (as the first to comment I am open to later commenters trying to convince me otherwise). ] (]) 06:03, 11 November 2023 (UTC) | :'''Oppose''' because this subject is so vitally important that it deserves to be a decent length in itself on current politics without history being continually added to it (as the first to comment I am open to later commenters trying to convince me otherwise). ] (]) 06:03, 11 November 2023 (UTC) | ||
*'''Oppose''' It's fine to have some overlap with other articles - it can be helpful to readers to have coverage of the same topics in different contexts. Granted, allowing sensible overlap means we need a bit more vigilance for WP:POVforks - but that's less demanding than the massive editorial effort needed to write helpful content if we tried to cram too many related topics into one article. Readers tend to prefer relatively short digestible articles. Trying to cover too much in one article makes it harder to achieve clarity and avoid overly broad generalisatons. As has been stated, CC politics and it's sub topics are of vital importance (Unless one of the 200+ initiatives to discover viable nuclear fusion succeed, or we get very lucky with AI augmented geoengineering.) ] (]) 08:46, 11 November 2023 (UTC) | *'''Oppose''' It's fine to have some overlap with other articles - it can be helpful to readers to have coverage of the same topics in different contexts. Granted, allowing sensible overlap means we need a bit more vigilance for WP:POVforks - but that's less demanding than the massive editorial effort needed to write helpful content if we tried to cram too many related topics into one article. Readers tend to prefer relatively short digestible articles. Trying to cover too much in one article makes it harder to achieve clarity and avoid overly broad generalisatons. As has been stated, CC politics and it's sub topics are of vital importance (Unless one of the 200+ initiatives to discover viable nuclear fusion succeed, or we get very lucky with AI augmented geoengineering.) ] (]) 08:46, 11 November 2023 (UTC) | ||
* '''Comment''': OK, I will withdraw my proposal then. But I think we can agree that the article ] needs further work to reach its full potential. ] (]) 16:00, 11 December 2023 (UTC) | |||
==Wiki Education assignment: Environment and Justice== | |||
== New source == | |||
{{dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment | course = Misplaced Pages:Wiki_Ed/Arizona_State_University/Environment_and_Justice_(Spring_2024) | assignments = ] | start_date = 2024-01-09 | end_date = 2024-05-24 }} | |||
<span class="wikied-assignment" style="font-size:85%;">— Assignment last updated by ] (]) 18:15, 6 February 2024 (UTC)</span> | |||
https://www.economist.com/international/2023/10/11/the-global-backlash-against-climate-policies-has-begun | |||
:Thanks for choosing this very important subject. If you need help please ask - for example at ] ] (]) 19:56, 1 April 2024 (UTC) |
Latest revision as of 14:59, 29 June 2024
This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Politics of climate change article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
|
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2Auto-archiving period: 8 months |
The contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to climate change, which has been designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information. |
This page is not a forum for general discussion about Politics of climate change. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about Politics of climate change at the Reference desk. |
|
This level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Country Positions Historical Information
This content was cut and past here. It's mostly out of date and POV laden with weasle words etc. However, there might be something valuable we can harvest and reincorporate into the article.
English Speaking Countries In most English-speaking countries, support for action to mitigate global warming, such as ratification and implementation of the Kyoto Protocol is strong on the political left.
However, the first politician to put global warming on the political agenda was Richard Nixon 1969. Nixon wanted environmental topics (as acid rain and greenhouse effect) to be treated by a third and civil pillar of NATO. The reaction of the NATO allies was lukewarm but the initiative gained impact in the civil field.
In the 1980s, Margaret Thatcher was instrumental in increasing the United Kingdom's electricity generation from North Sea gas and reducing generation from coal.
In Germany Angela Merkel, then secretary of the environment during the conservative Helmut Kohl government, lead the German Kyoto Delegation and had a substantial role in making the Kyoto agreement possible.
In December 2007, Kevin Rudd's first act as prime minister of Australia was to ratify the Kyoto Protocol in time for the Kyoto Protocol talks in Bali.
In Canada, the Liberal Party government ratified Kyoto.
In New Zealand, the Labour government of Helen Clark ratified Kyoto.
In the United Kingdom, the Labour Party ratified Kyoto
In the United States, Bill Clinton's Administration signed Kyoto and Democrats have proposed and supported a number of bills to mitigate emissions. Although Kyoto is signed, subsequent sessions of Congress failed to ratify the treaty and thus the United States is not bound to it. US diplomats have conceded the treaty will never be ratified. "We are not going to ratify the Kyoto Protocol. That is out," said US climate negotiator Jonathan Pershing at the 2009 Bangkok Climate Change Talks. Barack Obama supported passage of the American Clean Energy and Security Act to establish a United States Carbon Cap and Trade Program; while the bill was approved in the House of Representatives, it was not taken up in the Senate.
In some countries the political right are fighting on a platform of taking tough action against global warming, while in others the political right either dispute the scientific consensus on global warming or oppose action to mitigate global warming, instead favoring adaption. All European countries have ratified the Kyoto Protocol, and all have supported strong reductions in greenhouse gas emissions.
In the United States, a February 2007 survey found that 95% of the 41 Congressional Democrats surveyed agreed "it's been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the Earth is warming because of man-made problems" while only 13% of the 31 Republicans surveyed agreed.
Global warming skepticism has been promoted by newspapers associated with the right such as The Australian, the Daily Telegraph in the United Kingdom and the National Post in Canada.
Asia Australia officially ratified the Kyoto Protocol, after the new Labor government came into power on December 3, 2007. The previous Coalition government had long objected to ratifying the treaty, arguing it would unduly impact on Australian jobs, especially when countries such as China, India and the U.S. were not party to it.
Japan is preparing to force industry to make big cuts in greenhouse gases, taking the lead in a country struggling to meet its Kyoto Protocol obligations.
Canada Canada's Liberal Government during the 1990s had agreed to Kyoto but oversaw the increase of greenhouse gas emissions during their terms in office and did little to meet Kyoto's targets. Canada's current Conservative Government has claimed that, due to increased emissions since 1990, it is realistically impossible to meet their Kyoto targets and attempting to do so would be disastrous for the Canadian economy. Current Prime Minister Stephen Harper has come under fire for being adamant in leaving Kyoto and working on a different climate plan. Consequently, this issue has become something of an Achilles' heel for the Government in recent months. The current Liberal Party has been quick in their condemnation of the Government but has also been accused of using Global Warming for political purposes as seen in the naming of leader Stéphane Dion's dog 'Kyoto'.
Europe
Russia signed the Kyoto Protocol in November 2004, after a deal with the European Union over WTO membership. Russia's ratification completed the requirements of the treaty to come into force, based on nations totaling 55% of world greenhouse gas emissions.
The UK government-commissioned Stern Review into the economic effects of climate change was published in October 2006. Tony Blair's assessment was that it showed that scientific evidence of global warming was "overwhelming" and its consequences "disastrous". He added, "We can't wait the five years it took to negotiate Kyoto — we simply don't have the time. We accept we have to go further ." The UK government launched an official calculator in the week of June 18, 2007 that enables every person in the country to work out how much carbon dioxide they produce and how to cut it. Tory group sets out plans for Green Revolution. In the UK campaign group Camp for Climate Action aims to keep climate change on the political agenda, using direct action against major carbon emitters.
United States
Main article: Climate change policy of the United StatesThe politics of global warming is played out at a state and federal level in the United States. Attempts to draw up climate change policy are being made at a state level to a greater extent than at a federal level.
Vatican Pope Benedict XVI told up to half a million people, over a hillside near the Adriatic city of Loreto on the day Catholic Church marks its annual Save Creation Day, that world leaders must make courageous decisions to save the planet "before it is too late".
- ^ Cite error: The named reference
Hüne
was invoked but never defined (see the help page). - Murray, Iain (2003-09-17). "Fixing the Game:Kyoto rules". National Review Online. Retrieved 2010-01-20.
- Purvis, Andrew (2007-10-17). "Angela Merkel — Heroes of the Environment". Time Magazine. Retrieved 2010-01-30.
- ^ AAP (2007-12-03). "Rudd ratifies Kyoto The Age". The Age Company Limited. Retrieved 2010-06-07.
Australia's official declaration today that we will become a member of the Kyoto Protocol is a significant step forward in our country's efforts to fight climate change domestically and with the international community
- Hood, Marlowe (2009-10-08). "Climate: What's to become of the Kyoto Protocol?". AFP. Retrieved 2009-10-10.
{{cite news}}
: Cite has empty unknown parameter:|coauthors=
(help) - Climate change concerns championed by Cameron's Conservatives
- "Base page" (PDF). Retrieved 2010-08-29.
- "Climate change: The Deniers". www.canada.com. CanWest MediaWorks Publications Inc. 2007-06-20. Retrieved 2010-01-25.
- WBCSD. "World Business Council for Sustainable Development". WBCSD. Retrieved 2010-08-29.
- "Climate change fight 'can't wait'". BBC News. 2006-10-31. Retrieved 2010-08-29.
- Juliette Jowit, environment editor (2007-06-18). "calculator to help save the planet". London: Observer.guardian.co.uk. Retrieved 2010-08-29.
{{cite news}}
:|author=
has generic name (help) - "Tory Group Sets Out Plans for Green Revolution". Planet Ark. 2007-09-14. Retrieved 2010-08-29.
- "Save The Planet Before It's Too Late, Pope Urges". Planet Ark. 2007-09-03. Retrieved 2010-08-29.
Wiki Education assignment: Applied Plant Ecology Winter 2022
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 10 January 2022 and 23 April 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Jennifersenv (article contribs).
Merge History of climate change policy and politics to here
I suggest that History of climate change policy and politics should be merged to here. Otherwise I fear that a duplicate structure article will be established which overlaps too much with other articles. E.g. people started a section on climate change adaptation in that history article even though this should be rather in climate change adaptation. Similarly with a history of climate activism which should rather be at climate movement. See also my concerns on the talk page of History of climate change policy and politics. EMsmile (talk) 23:40, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose because this subject is so vitally important that it deserves to be a decent length in itself on current politics without history being continually added to it (as the first to comment I am open to later commenters trying to convince me otherwise). Chidgk1 (talk) 06:03, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose It's fine to have some overlap with other articles - it can be helpful to readers to have coverage of the same topics in different contexts. Granted, allowing sensible overlap means we need a bit more vigilance for WP:POVforks - but that's less demanding than the massive editorial effort needed to write helpful content if we tried to cram too many related topics into one article. Readers tend to prefer relatively short digestible articles. Trying to cover too much in one article makes it harder to achieve clarity and avoid overly broad generalisatons. As has been stated, CC politics and it's sub topics are of vital importance (Unless one of the 200+ initiatives to discover viable nuclear fusion succeed, or we get very lucky with AI augmented geoengineering.) FeydHuxtable (talk) 08:46, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
- Comment: OK, I will withdraw my proposal then. But I think we can agree that the article History of climate change policy and politics needs further work to reach its full potential. EMsmile (talk) 16:00, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
Wiki Education assignment: Environment and Justice
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 9 January 2024 and 24 May 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Pimientabolt (article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by 111ivyfsds (talk) 18:15, 6 February 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks for choosing this very important subject. If you need help please ask - for example at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Climate change Chidgk1 (talk) 19:56, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
- Misplaced Pages controversial topics
- Old requests for peer review
- C-Class level-5 vital articles
- Misplaced Pages level-5 vital articles in Physical sciences
- C-Class vital articles in Physical sciences
- C-Class Environment articles
- Top-importance Environment articles
- C-Class Climate change articles
- Top-importance Climate change articles
- WikiProject Climate change articles
- C-Class politics articles
- Top-importance politics articles
- WikiProject Politics articles
- C-Class Science Policy articles
- Top-importance Science Policy articles
- C-Class Economics articles
- High-importance Economics articles
- WikiProject Economics articles