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Revision as of 10:41, 5 April 2011 editBobrayner (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers53,706 edits →Merge sections "Frameworks mapping to ITIL" and "Variants of ITIL"← Previous edit Latest revision as of 09:33, 10 July 2024 edit undoQwerfjkl (bot) (talk | contribs)Bots, Mass message senders4,012,079 editsm Removed deprecated parameters in {{Talk header}} that are now handled automatically (Task 30)Tag: paws [2.2] 
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== Reference to Lean-IT ? ==

A reference to the Lean-IT concept is surprisingly missing in this article ! I did not know about "Lean-ITIL", by the way.
Anyway, if someone competent thinks this should appear somewhere in there, here is the link : http://en.wikipedia.org/Lean_IT <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 07:29, 25 January 2011 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Criticisms are Criticisms (comments by ], moved to talkpage by ]) ==

Criticisms...and meant to stimulate areas of thought and research!! Prove that they are wrong 1st before deleting - Raynor This should not be considered an advertisment like most delusional "defenders of the faith" like to imagine. "Sniping" would be a calculated and considered attack but does not diminish the fact of truths, but may seem threatening to those over zealous fans with either; little actual knowledge or experience in the subject matter or perhaps, ''only'' knowledge in that subject matter.
<br>
The availability of the official OGC books (of which I have stacks) and the cost (which is less than university fare), is held up as a criticism of the ITIL. This is neither true nor a valued, intelligent criticism entry for this subject. It does not offer critical insights to the pros and cons of ITIL.
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"Accusations that...." that entry might be considered "sniping" since it sounds like a hotly contested issue about to be deliberated upon - where as it is merely inflammatory semantics and lexicology, but did not suffer arbitrary deletions in wikiadvertise
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And as originally pointed out...Additionally:
<br>
1) Anyone can institute ITIL and create service levels so low that the claim for successful implementation can be made. - absolutely True and the way it is currently being implemented in many sectors.
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2) The flexibilities required to intelligently deploy are beyond the hosts of average left hand brain constrained business executives. - Most execs are very inflexible and hold up names of things as a method of not providing CSI and doubtful if they might even identify the interdependencies and linkages.
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3) The language used in all the manuals meanders from overly obvious generalities to ambiguous inflations without clear validations. - True look yourself
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4) Senior executives can arbitrarily decide to subjugate ITIL to their personal preferences without analysis or proofs. - True and the general way it is most often implemented.
:I moved these comments to the talkpage because there are some problems that may need to be resolved before they can appear in article space.
:Complaining about other wikipedians disagreeing with you is not the kind of thing that the public should be reading; least of all arguments that any wikipedian who disagrees with your unsourced criticism must be ignorant.
:If there's a good basis for these criticisms of ITIL, I'd love to see them implemented in the article. But first, there may need to be some structural change.
:"''somebody can do a half-arsed implementation of X, thus undermining the intent of X''" is a criticism of practically any IT standard. Similarly, criticism of execs reflects a problem with execs rather than a problem with a specific family of technology standards.
⚫ :] (]) 16:40, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Removed this quote as it is inaccurate (it may have been accurate in 2002 but not now)
As Jan van Bon (author and editor of many IT Service Management publications) notes,
:''There is confusion about ITIL, stemming from misunderstandings about its nature. ITIL is, as the OGC states, a set of best practices. The OGC doesn't claim that ITIL's best practices describe pure processes. The OGC also doesn't claim that ITIL is a framework, designed as one coherent model. That is what most of its users make of it, probably because they have such a great need for such a model...''<ref>{{cite book|author=van Bon, J.(Editor)|title=The guide to IT service management|publisher=Addison Wesley|year=2002|isbn=0201737922}}</ref>

Because - OGC *DO* claim that ITIL is a framework. The ITILv3 Official Introduction says "After twenty years ITIL remains the most recognized framework for ITSM in the world. While it has evolved and changed its breadth and depth, it preserves the fundamental concepts of leading practice." There are many many places in the OGC docs where they refer to ITIL as a framework and a cohetent model. ] (]) 06:54, 3 April 2011 (UTC)


While ITIL was started in the it has since become an international standard adopted everywhere. Should the article be re-written to remove British English? I'm not sure of the arguments pro or con in this area. --] (]) 17:37, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
== Clarity of Text ==
:No. Why would any other variety of English be more suitable? --] (]) 17:46, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
⚫ :No; see ] --] (]) 15:53, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
::Most of the British English has been removed from the ITIL guidance already. The exams have had all of the language specific to the UK removed for some time now. The reason is very simple, and has already been stated -- it is used around the world. Keeping British colloquialisms and UK-specific spellings of words like "whilst" makes no sense.] (]) 12:55, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
::: If you're going to remove 'British English', why not remove French or German whilst you are about it? It makes no sense, as you say, if you can write everything in American. ] (]) 10:59, 23 June 2020 (UTC)


== External links modified ==
I may be out of my depth here, but
"Features include:


Hello fellow Wikipedians,
* single point of contact (SPOC) and not necessarily the first point of contact (FPOC)
"


I have just modified one external link on ]. Please take a moment to review ]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit ] for additional information. I made the following changes:
If there is a single point of contact then surely there is also a first point of contact (only one in fact). If I've misunderstood, which I suspect I have, then the text isn't clear enough. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 14:38, 10 November 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110912184827/http://www.apmg-international.com/ITILSCRquery.asp to http://www.apmg-international.com/ITILSCRquery.asp


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Impact of policies and procedures for technical supports (impact on cost, user experience, escalation process, tired support. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 13:55, 5 February 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


{{sourcecheck|checked=false|needhelp=}}
== Merge sections "Frameworks mapping to ITIL" and "Variants of ITIL" ==


Cheers.—] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">(])</span> 12:44, 10 November 2017 (UTC)
I believe that these sections contain overlapping and redundant information.


== External Link to Strategy Management for IT Services (ITSM) ==
I'm new to editing wikipedia. But I'd be happy to try to re-word these two sections into prose which both lists and discusses:
COBIT, MOF, BECTA's FITS, IBM's ITUP and eTom.


I have observed that Misplaced Pages doesn't have an article on Strategy Management for IT Services (ITSM), listed under Service Strategy Heading.<br>
But that seems to be a major change and I don't feel comfortable just diving in without warning ... I guess I'm not really looking for approval so much as checking to see if there's any objection from anyone watching this.
I have a good article on this topic: Strategy Management for IT Services (ITSM)<br>
⚫ ] (]) 22:31, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
As my website is new I'm not putting the link directly in the main article. I'd request other editors to create/improve this Misplaced Pages article with help of the article link given below:<br>
:I'd agree that there's some redundancy. Looks like a good idea.
<br>
:Go ahead and try making some improvements. If you need a hand with anything, just ask here (or try the ]). I look forward to your contributions. The worst that can happen is that somebody disagrees with you, in which case we can come back here to discuss the best way forward for the article; we won't bite! ] (]) 00:27, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
If you found the above article helpful, then please put the link in the main article as external link.--] (]) 10:47, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
::If you're doing a lot of rearranging, it can be helpful to use the "''Show preview''" button every so often, to get a feel for what the page will actually look like once you submit. It's important for content to be ''sourced'', so where practical, try to cite a source for things that are non-obvious or potentially controversial. (As a minimum, if you want to cite some other webpage, just put the URL in square brackets and somebody will come along and tidy that up afterwards). ] (]) 00:33, 30 March 2011 (UTC)


== ITIL v4: it seems to be "change enablement" rather than "change control" ==
Thanks for that - I'll see what I can do (btw fecnde is me - changed user to my real name instead of nick). Thanks for the quick feedback. ] (]) 07:05, 30 March 2011 (UTC)


The article speaks about the "change control" practice in ITIL v4 and states that this name has changed compared to previous versions.
ok ... that's done(ish). I'm not totally happy with some bits of that section (now merged just one) but I think that's cleaner. It feels wrong editing the live page. Is it possible to save something as a draft somewhere? ] (]) 08:26, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
:I took the liberty of putting a copy of the text in your userpace, at ], where you can play around with a "draft" as much as you like; when you're happy that you've perfected it, you can bring it back to live. That page won't show up in Google searches &c. Hope that helps? Have fun! ] (]) 10:02, 30 March 2011 (UTC)


The ITIL Foundation Guide (Limited, AXELOS. ITIL Foundation: ITIL 4 Edition . The Stationery Office Ltd. Kindle Edition.) speaks about "change enablement" rather than "change control".
Hey thanks! That is exactly what I was after. It felt really wrong editing the live version. When I'm done, do I just copy/paste the code or is there a merge feature? I guess I should rtfm :) ] (]) <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added 17:16, 30 March 2011 (UTC).</span><!--Template:Undated--> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


This may have changed during the development of v4. I'm not closely involved with the ITIL standard, so I didn't just want to make the change in the text without being sure of what really is the definitive term.
:Next to the preview button is a "''show changes''" button which presents a diff of the current article and your proposed changes. Apart from that, it's just copy and paste. Merging page histories must be performed by an administrator, you can request it by placing <tt>{{tlx|histmerge|''page to merge histories with''}}</tt> in the article. ] 09:58, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
⚫ ] (]) 13:42, 6 December 2019 (UTC)
::If all the changes to the userified text have been done by a single person, and any changed sections would be just pasted into the existing article not unlike a normal edit, and would all be attributed to the same person, do we really need merged histories?
::Davebremer: the draft in your userspace is not a ''complete'' replica, because "live" articles have things like categories at the bottom which could be problematic if they appeared on a duplicate article in userspace, so I omitted those. Don't just overwrite the whole article, instead it would be better to replace the bits that you've improved. Other people might have worked on any part of the live article in the meantime, so be careful of that; MER-C's suggestion is helpful. ] (]) 10:41, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

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While ITIL was started in the it has since become an international standard adopted everywhere. Should the article be re-written to remove British English? I'm not sure of the arguments pro or con in this area. --Jasenlee (talk) 17:37, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

No. Why would any other variety of English be more suitable? --Michig (talk) 17:46, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
No; see MOS:RETAIN --hulmem (talk) 15:53, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
Most of the British English has been removed from the ITIL guidance already. The exams have had all of the language specific to the UK removed for some time now. The reason is very simple, and has already been stated -- it is used around the world. Keeping British colloquialisms and UK-specific spellings of words like "whilst" makes no sense.Flybd5 (talk) 12:55, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
If you're going to remove 'British English', why not remove French or German whilst you are about it? It makes no sense, as you say, if you can write everything in American. Fustbariclation (talk) 10:59, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

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External Link to Strategy Management for IT Services (ITSM)

I have observed that Misplaced Pages doesn't have an article on Strategy Management for IT Services (ITSM), listed under Service Strategy Heading.
I have a good article on this topic: Strategy Management for IT Services (ITSM)
As my website is new I'm not putting the link directly in the main article. I'd request other editors to create/improve this Misplaced Pages article with help of the article link given below:
Strategy Management for IT Services (ITSM)
If you found the above article helpful, then please put the link in the main article as external link.--AyanBrahmachary (talk) 10:47, 24 November 2017 (UTC)

ITIL v4: it seems to be "change enablement" rather than "change control"

The article speaks about the "change control" practice in ITIL v4 and states that this name has changed compared to previous versions.

The ITIL Foundation Guide (Limited, AXELOS. ITIL Foundation: ITIL 4 Edition . The Stationery Office Ltd. Kindle Edition.) speaks about "change enablement" rather than "change control".

This may have changed during the development of v4. I'm not closely involved with the ITIL standard, so I didn't just want to make the change in the text without being sure of what really is the definitive term. Ob71 (talk) 13:42, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

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