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== India Education Program course assignment ==
== Comment by ] ==
] This article was the subject of an educational assignment at Symbiosis School of Economics supported by ] through the ] during the 2011 Q3 term. Further details are available ].] ]

Four-rate formula and Exchange-rate Formula?

Four-rate formula explains the mathematical relation of change rate in price, wage, interest rate and GDP (or GNP).

Exchange rate reqlll8888888888formula help to calculate exchange rate between different money with different productivity.

This book introduces a new theory of price system and a general theory of interest rate.

Please read a new mook:

THING AND ITS LAW, Chapter 3: Productive force ( the theory of price system)ISBN 1-58939-525-5. Published 2003 by Virtualbookworm.com Publishing Inc.

xiaozhong zhai

== Comment by ] ==

People who edit this page should know something about economics. Do you think that Lucas would have received the nobel prize for simply a suggesting?

Furthermore, New Keysian economics does not provide strong micro foundations to Keysian economics.

Also, these so called schools of economic thought have no bearing on relevant macroeconomics and are very outdated and not used by anyone who knows economics anymore.


{{small|The above message was substituted from {{tlc|IEP assignment}} by ] (]) on 19:56, 1 February 2023 (UTC)}}
== Short-run link ==


== Modern Monetary Theory ==
I know nothing about economics, but it's not clear to me that link to short-run links to the correct article. It doesn't seem related.


Why is their no mention of MMT in this article about macro economics? MMT is an important theoretical framework for understanding macro econ. We should at least link to the substantial ] in the See Also section, if not devote a section of this article to it. ] (]) 15:42, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
== Macroeconomics ==


== Non Pseudo-Science Macroeconomics ==
To start with showing a macroeconomics flow-diagram is a good idea, however the present diagram is inadequate because it does not include sufficient sectors nor their correct connections. At least 6 sectors should be shown on the diagram which are Landlords, Capitalists, Government, Producers, Householders and Banks (Financial Institutions). There are 19 relationships between them as shown previously. The present model which is from an older era also confuses the functions and natures of the various elements. The model which I previously posted does not have these faults and the previous discussion that was provided to justify its use has been eliminated! Also I am not a Marxist and the comment that this model was so is completely unjustified. So I would be grateful if the person whom changed my postings and data would reverse what he/she has done.


From what I have seen just about all the experts in this difficult subject regard macroeconomics as a pseudo-science. In fact, I have found only one book that shows how it is really a true science when it is expressed as an engineer might regard any other kind of system. That is in "Consequential Macroeconomics--Rationalizing About How Our Social System Works". In this book the author shows that our past confusion is due to the failure to properly define various parts of it in a proper way. When he does so he can then construct a simple model of what it really comprises. The resulting analysis, which is based on logical argument, then is used to show how it really works. This book was published in 2015 as a soft-cover edition, but it is also available for free as an e-copy when you send a message to its author.] (]) 12:53, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
I realise that Macroeconomics is a difficult topic and I have not tried to make a nusence of myself over what I regard as some unthinking comments and changes. There is no guarentee that the textbooks are correct and it certainly is time for a change from the old dogged style of presentation which is not useful nor able to satisfactorily explain many recent macroeconomic phenomena.
] (]) 15:42, 14 March 2012 (UTC)


== A New Way to Present this Badly Confused and Complex Subject ==
:There were a few concerns with the previous diagram. For one, do you have a source for it? I favor the current one since it is a simpler representation. The previous diagram was very complicated and required clicking on it to get much out of it. What makes you think that the current model is from an "older era"? It looks pretty conventional to me. If anything, the divisions of "landlords" and "capitalists" seem outdated. Generally, I am not a big fan of flow diagrams. They are used in introductory materials and bare little resemblance to the macromodels economists actually use. I don't see an advantage in a complicated diagram that gets all the sectors and flows "right." The virtue of flow diagrams is their simplicity not their ability to represent every complexity of an economy.


Making Macroeconomics a Much More Exact Science
:Yes, there is no guarantee that the textbooks are correct, but Misplaced Pages policies are based on working from sources and not including original research. If you want to introduce material to this article, you should work from a source. Arguing that uncited ideas or presentations are better than published, textbook based edits won't be fruitful.


Today macroeconomics is treated inexactly within the humanities, because it appears to be a very complex and easily confused matter. But this does not give it fair justice, because we should be trying to find a viable approach to the topic and examine it in a way that avoids these problems, and for us to better understand of what it comprises and how it actually works. Suppose we ask ourselves the question: “how many different KINDS of financial (business) transaction occur within our society?”
:Your previous comments were not removed. They have been archived in a standard, automatic process. They are still available here: ].--] (]) 00:47, 22 March 2012 (UTC)


The simple and direct answer shows that that only a limited number of them are possible or necessary. Although our sociological system comprises of many millions of participants, to properly answer this question we should be ready to consider the averages of the various kinds of activities (no matter who or what organization performs them), and simultaneously to idealize these activities so that they fall into a number of commonly shared operations. This approach uses some general terms for expressing the various types of these transactions, into what becomes a relatively small number. Here, each kind is found to apply between a particular pair of agents, (sectors or entities), each one of which has individual properties. Then to cover the whole sociological system of a country, it requires only 19 kinds of exchanges of the goods, services, access rights, taxes, credits, investments, valuable legal documents, etc., versus the mutual and opposing flows of money.
== Logical Presentation of This Subject ==


The argument that led to this initially unexpected result was prepared by the author. It may be found in his working paper (on the internet) as SSRN 2865571 “Einstein’s Criterion Applied to Logical Macroeconomics Modelling”. In this model these double-flows of money versus goods, etc., necessarily pass between only 6 kinds of role-playing entities (or agents). Of course, there are a number of different configurations that are possible for this type of simplification, but if one tries to eliminate all the unnecessary complications and sticks to the more basic activities, then these particular quantities and flows provide the most concise yet fully comprehensive result, which is presentable in a seamless manner, for our whole social system and one that is suitable for its further analysis.
The current Misplaced Pages presentation of Macroeconomics is inadequate and makes no attempt to present the subject in a comprehensive way. Granted that macroeconomics is a much debated subject with a number of schools of thought, it is still necessary to provide some general facts about it before entering into the variations. So I suggest that the editors for this subject begin to re-organize it according to a more logical and systematic basis.


Surprisingly, past representation of our sociological system by this kind of an interpretation model has neither been properly derived nor formally presented before. Previously, other partial versions have been modelled (even using up to 4 agents, as by Professor Hudson), but they are inexact due to their being over-simplified. Alternatively, in the case of econometrics, the representations are far too complicated and almost impossible for students to follow. These two reasons of over-simplification and of complexity are why this pseudo or non-scientific confusion has been created by many economists, and it explains their failure to obtain a good understanding about how the whole system works.
The first thing that is missing is a statement about what macroeconomics actually is. This should not just define it but also describe what it is and what it does. Which parts of human society are involved and under which kind of general heading does it fall? Then we need to supply some general features about the subject which are distinct from microeconomics and which will not cause a student to get confused between the two. An illustration of the flow of money and materials within the whole social system would be useful at the start and help to focus the reader on the various aspects of the subject. The present diagram is unsatisfactory in this respect. It is both confusing and incomplete (see my other Talk).


The model being described here in this paper is unique, in being the first to include, along with some additional aspects, all the 3 factors of production, in Adam Smith's “Wealth of Nations” book of 1776. These factors are Land, Labour and Capital, along with their returns of Ground-Rent, Wages and Interest/Dividends, respectively. All of them are all included in the model, which as a diagram is included in the paper.
The various division of the subject also need to be listed so that at least the following are mentioned:
General Macroeconomics, Econometrics, Theoretical Macroeconomics, History of Macroeconomics, Moneist Theory, Keynesian Theories and subsequent Methods of Mnalysis, various other Schools of Thought in Macroeconomics, Mathematical and other Modeling in Macroeconomics to include the early Phillips Water Model and to continue with later models. These should cover various developments for both Short-Term Stability with Equilibrium and Long-term Dynamics including "Business Cycles", Ethics, Competition, Monopolies, Socialism, Taxation, Inflation, Government Policies and their effects.


(Economics’ historians will recall, as originally explained by Adam Smith and David Ricardo, that there are prescribed independent functions of the land-owners and the capitalists. The land-owners speculate in the land-values and rent it to tenants, whilst the capitalists are actually the owners/managers of the durable capital goods used in industry. These items may be hired out for use. Regrettably, for political and commercial reasons, the concept of these 2 different functions were combined by John Bates Clark and company, about 1900, resulting in the later neglect of their different influences on our sociological system-- the terms landlord and capitalist becoming virtually synonymous along with the expression for property as real-estate.)
No politics but the mention of lots of independent ideas are mandatory. The present write-up should be completely overhauled. Reference to the other articles on this subject would do much to save space here and make the subject more easy to understand and to find. (In other words, before re-writing a lot of planning is needed so as to cover the whole subject in a number of articles, some of which already exist.) The single main reference book most quoted at the end of the present artical implies that the article is written by somebody with a bias toward it! Surely we can do better than that!] (]) 13:58, 21 March 2012 (UTC)


The diagram of this model is in my paper (noted above). A mention of the related teaching process is also provided in my short working paper SSRN 2600103 “A Mechanical Model for Teaching Macroeconomics”. With this model in an alternative form, the various parts and activities of the Big Picture of our sociological system can be properly identified and defined.
:I don't think this article is by any means complete, and I'm very open to substantial changes, but I disagree with most with most of your implied reorganization. Topics involving competition, especially monopolies, are generally considered micro topics (macro models may be based on perfect or imperfect competition, but these topics are usually treated as micro). Distinctions between methods of analysis, mathematical modeling, "other modeling," theory, and econometrics do not make sense. There is a lot of overlap. Generally, I think the best distinction would be between theory and empirical work, which still have a lot of overlap. Phillip's ] is very interesting, but it was a physical representation of prior theory not a breakthrough. It didn't have much influence.


Subsequently by analysis, the way our sociological system works can then be properly seen, calculated and illustrated. This analysis is introduced by the mathematics and logic, which was devised by Nobel Laureate Wellesley W. Leontief, when he invented the important "Input-Output" matrix methodology (that he originally applied only to the production sector). This short-hand method of modelling the whole system replaces the above-mentioned block-and-flow diagram. It enables one to really get to grips with what is going-on within our sociological system. It is the topology of the matrix which actually provides the key to this.
:My long-run list of planned topics is: overview (covering micro vs. macro distinction, etc); basic concepts (similar to whats there now); basic textbook models covering short-run, medium-run, growth, and the open economy with some discussion of more recent work where applicable (new open economy macro and new growth); macroeconomic policy divided between fiscal and monetary; history of macroeconomic theory; finally, empirical methods. I don't think this is an ideal organization, but I think it's sensible and covers everything an introduction to macroeconomics should.


The logic and math are not hard and are suitable for high-school students, who have been shown the basic properties of square-matrices and the notation of the calculus. By this technique it is comparatively easy to introduce any change to a pre-set sociological system that is theoretically in equilibrium (even though we know that this ideal is never actually attained--it simply being a convenient way to begin the study). This change creates an imbalance and we need to regain equilibrium again. Thus, sudden changes or policy decisions may be simulated and the effects of them determined, which will point the way to what policy is best. In my book about it, (see below) 3 changes associated with taxation are investigated in hand-worked numerical examples. In fact, when I first worked it out, the irrefutable logical results were a surprise, even to me!
:I object to the implication that I was biased in using Blanchard. Yes, this article needs more sources, but it's still a work progress. Most of the references are to Blanchard are to his short history of macro in his textbook. I used this reference because I thought it was a good, concise summary. I don't see how it is substantively different from the content in the article ], which uses a wide variety of sources. Please explain where you think there is bias. Yes, a section shouldn't rely on a single source, but this is a work in progress, and other sources can be readily added.--] (]) 01:31, 22 March 2012 (UTC)


Developments of these ideas about making our subject more truly scientific (thereby avoiding the past pseudo-science being taught at universities), may be found in my recent book: “Consequential Macroeconomics—Rationalizing About How Our Social System Works”.
== Dimand ==


Two notes refererring to Dimand, but no further data over this book in the references. ] (]) 13:49, 3 September 2012 (UTC) Please write to me at chestdher@gmail.com for a free e-copy of this 310-page book and for any additional information. ] (]) 15:10, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
:Thanks for pointing this out. I added the Dimand reference.--] (]) 16:18, 3 September 2012 (UTC)


== Illegal/black markets ==
== Employment growth by top tax rate image ==


Insurance, etc macro or micro? ] (]) 11:46, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
I've started a centralised discussion ] regarding ], which is used in this article. ] (]) 09:59, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

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This article was the subject of an educational assignment at Symbiosis School of Economics supported by Misplaced Pages Ambassadors through the India Education Program during the 2011 Q3 term. Further details are available on the course page.

The above message was substituted from {{IEP assignment}} by PrimeBOT (talk) on 19:56, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

Modern Monetary Theory

Why is their no mention of MMT in this article about macro economics? MMT is an important theoretical framework for understanding macro econ. We should at least link to the substantial MMT page in the See Also section, if not devote a section of this article to it. UberFefa (talk) 15:42, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

Non Pseudo-Science Macroeconomics

From what I have seen just about all the experts in this difficult subject regard macroeconomics as a pseudo-science. In fact, I have found only one book that shows how it is really a true science when it is expressed as an engineer might regard any other kind of system. That is in "Consequential Macroeconomics--Rationalizing About How Our Social System Works". In this book the author shows that our past confusion is due to the failure to properly define various parts of it in a proper way. When he does so he can then construct a simple model of what it really comprises. The resulting analysis, which is based on logical argument, then is used to show how it really works. This book was published in 2015 as a soft-cover edition, but it is also available for free as an e-copy when you send a message to its author.Macrocompassion (talk) 12:53, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

A New Way to Present this Badly Confused and Complex Subject

Making Macroeconomics a Much More Exact Science

Today macroeconomics is treated inexactly within the humanities, because it appears to be a very complex and easily confused matter. But this does not give it fair justice, because we should be trying to find a viable approach to the topic and examine it in a way that avoids these problems, and for us to better understand of what it comprises and how it actually works. Suppose we ask ourselves the question: “how many different KINDS of financial (business) transaction occur within our society?”

The simple and direct answer shows that that only a limited number of them are possible or necessary. Although our sociological system comprises of many millions of participants, to properly answer this question we should be ready to consider the averages of the various kinds of activities (no matter who or what organization performs them), and simultaneously to idealize these activities so that they fall into a number of commonly shared operations. This approach uses some general terms for expressing the various types of these transactions, into what becomes a relatively small number. Here, each kind is found to apply between a particular pair of agents, (sectors or entities), each one of which has individual properties. Then to cover the whole sociological system of a country, it requires only 19 kinds of exchanges of the goods, services, access rights, taxes, credits, investments, valuable legal documents, etc., versus the mutual and opposing flows of money.

The argument that led to this initially unexpected result was prepared by the author. It may be found in his working paper (on the internet) as SSRN 2865571 “Einstein’s Criterion Applied to Logical Macroeconomics Modelling”. In this model these double-flows of money versus goods, etc., necessarily pass between only 6 kinds of role-playing entities (or agents). Of course, there are a number of different configurations that are possible for this type of simplification, but if one tries to eliminate all the unnecessary complications and sticks to the more basic activities, then these particular quantities and flows provide the most concise yet fully comprehensive result, which is presentable in a seamless manner, for our whole social system and one that is suitable for its further analysis.

Surprisingly, past representation of our sociological system by this kind of an interpretation model has neither been properly derived nor formally presented before. Previously, other partial versions have been modelled (even using up to 4 agents, as by Professor Hudson), but they are inexact due to their being over-simplified. Alternatively, in the case of econometrics, the representations are far too complicated and almost impossible for students to follow. These two reasons of over-simplification and of complexity are why this pseudo or non-scientific confusion has been created by many economists, and it explains their failure to obtain a good understanding about how the whole system works.

The model being described here in this paper is unique, in being the first to include, along with some additional aspects, all the 3 factors of production, in Adam Smith's “Wealth of Nations” book of 1776. These factors are Land, Labour and Capital, along with their returns of Ground-Rent, Wages and Interest/Dividends, respectively. All of them are all included in the model, which as a diagram is included in the paper.

(Economics’ historians will recall, as originally explained by Adam Smith and David Ricardo, that there are prescribed independent functions of the land-owners and the capitalists. The land-owners speculate in the land-values and rent it to tenants, whilst the capitalists are actually the owners/managers of the durable capital goods used in industry. These items may be hired out for use. Regrettably, for political and commercial reasons, the concept of these 2 different functions were combined by John Bates Clark and company, about 1900, resulting in the later neglect of their different influences on our sociological system-- the terms landlord and capitalist becoming virtually synonymous along with the expression for property as real-estate.)

The diagram of this model is in my paper (noted above). A mention of the related teaching process is also provided in my short working paper SSRN 2600103 “A Mechanical Model for Teaching Macroeconomics”. With this model in an alternative form, the various parts and activities of the Big Picture of our sociological system can be properly identified and defined.

Subsequently by analysis, the way our sociological system works can then be properly seen, calculated and illustrated. This analysis is introduced by the mathematics and logic, which was devised by Nobel Laureate Wellesley W. Leontief, when he invented the important "Input-Output" matrix methodology (that he originally applied only to the production sector). This short-hand method of modelling the whole system replaces the above-mentioned block-and-flow diagram. It enables one to really get to grips with what is going-on within our sociological system. It is the topology of the matrix which actually provides the key to this.

The logic and math are not hard and are suitable for high-school students, who have been shown the basic properties of square-matrices and the notation of the calculus. By this technique it is comparatively easy to introduce any change to a pre-set sociological system that is theoretically in equilibrium (even though we know that this ideal is never actually attained--it simply being a convenient way to begin the study). This change creates an imbalance and we need to regain equilibrium again. Thus, sudden changes or policy decisions may be simulated and the effects of them determined, which will point the way to what policy is best. In my book about it, (see below) 3 changes associated with taxation are investigated in hand-worked numerical examples. In fact, when I first worked it out, the irrefutable logical results were a surprise, even to me!

Developments of these ideas about making our subject more truly scientific (thereby avoiding the past pseudo-science being taught at universities), may be found in my recent book: “Consequential Macroeconomics—Rationalizing About How Our Social System Works”.

Please write to me at chestdher@gmail.com for a free e-copy of this 310-page book and for any additional information. Macrocompassion (talk) 15:10, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Illegal/black markets

Insurance, etc macro or micro? 71.178.33.122 (talk) 11:46, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

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