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| I've moved the Konkani language section from the Konkani article here. This follows the pattern often used by other languages/peoples.] 16:18, 22 October 2005 (UTC) | |||
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| == moving the medieval Konkani section coz of its irrevelance == | |||
| ==English as language of Goan Catholics== | |||
| What is the source of the contention that English is a widely spoken language among Goan Catholics? To my knowldge Goan Catholics do not speak English in any greater proportions than other Indian communities. Goan Catholics (in Goa at least) speak Konkani as a primary languae, with sections of the upper classes speaking Potuguese. In fact, even the epithet for Goan Christians, ''Makapao'', comes from an alleged tendency to say "''Deva, maka pav''", which is an appeal to God in Konkani. The image of Goan Catholics speaking English as a first language is largely Bollywood derived. --] <sup><small>]</small></sup> 18:04, 8 December 2005 (UTC) | |||
| i am in complete agreement that there is no greater proportion of english speakers in goa, but is the article trying to say that there are more english medium schools than before and fewer portuguese ones?--] 02:29, 10 December 2005 (UTC) | |||
| ''The following section has very less to do with history of the language''' | |||
| I think it is probably beyond much doubt that English has overtaken Potuguese as the dominant ''foreign'' language in Goa, but there doesn't seem to be any evidence that English has replaced the ''Konkani'' language among Goan Catholics, or any other demographic in Goa. | |||
| --] <sup><small>]</small></sup> 09:09, 10 December 2005 (UTC) | |||
| This era was marked by the invasion of Goa and subsequent exodus to Marhatta territory and ] (today's coastal Karnaraka) and Cochin. | |||
| * Hindu exodus ( between 1312–1327 when General ] of the ] ] and ] destroyed] and the ] | |||
| * Hindu exodus subsequent to 1470 when the ] kingdom captured Goa, and subsequently in 1492 by Sultan ] of ] | |||
| *Hindu exodus due to ] and ] of Hindus by Portuguese ] and ] missionaries subsequent to 1500 | |||
| *Hindu, Muslim and Neo-Catholic Christian exodus during the ] ordered by ] which was established in 1560 and abolished in 1812. | |||
| These events caused the Konkani language to evolve into multiple dialects. The exodus to coastal Karnataka and Kerala required Konkani speakers in these regions to learn the local languages and hence this caused penetration of local words into the dialects of Konkani spoken by these speakers. e.g. the word ''dār'' (door) gave way to the word ''bāgil'' . | |||
| The phoneme "a" in the Salcette dialect was replaced by the phoneme "o" | |||
| Other Konkani communities came into being with their own dialects of Konkani. The ] communities of ] and ] came about due to a mixture of intermarriage of Arab seafarers and locals as well as conversions of Hindus to Islam.<ref></ref>Another migrant community that picked up Konkani was the ] who were sailor-warriors from Ethiopia.<ref></ref> | |||
| {{reflist-talk}} | |||
| == 'Konkani', 'Maharashtrian Konkani' and 'Goan Konkani' == | |||
| ] | |||
| This is with regard to the classification of Konkani dialects. This has already been discussed ]. To summarise, the speakers of the ] and ] both call their respective tongues Konkani. For this reason, the names 'Maharashtrian Konkani' and 'Goan Konkani' are used to differentiate the two usages of the word Konkani. The dialects comprising Maharashtrian Konkani have collectively been assigned the ISO code ''knn'' while the rest of the Konkani dialects come under the ISO code gom. The languages with the ISO codes ''knn'' and ''gom'' are grouped together under the Konkani macrolanguage with ISO code ''kok''. However the term 'Goan Konkani' being used to refer to the non-maharashtrian dialects is misleading and indeed a misnomer because the dialects under the ISO code ''kok'' are not confined to the territory of the state of ] (eg. Mangalorean and Malvani) and in common parlance, Goan Konkani is understood to be the dialects spoken in the geographical area of Goa (eg. Antruz, Saxtti and Bardeskari). This classification is shown in the image. Hence, 'Goan Konkani' should be used carefully, and as far as possible should be avoided when referring collectively to the non-maharashtrian dialects. | |||
| ] (]) 22:16, 9 April 2012 (UTC) | |||
| Konkani ] (]) 08:30, 30 September 2021 (UTC) | |||
| == Austroasiatic? Or DravidiaN? == | |||
| The current article text contains: | |||
| "The substratum of the Konkani language lies in the speech of Austroasiatic tribes called Kurukh, Oraon, and Kukni," | |||
| When I looked up Kurukh and Oraon (on Misplaced Pages), they were mentioned as being Dravidian. That is something different from Austroasiatic. Did something go wrong?] (]) 23:39, 23 May 2022 (UTC) | |||
| == Move discussion in progress == | |||
| There is a move discussion in progress on ] which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. <!-- Talk:Konkani (disambiguation)#Requested move 5 June 2024 crosspost --> —] 09:35, 5 June 2024 (UTC) | |||
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moving the medieval Konkani section coz of its irrevelance
The following section has very less to do with history of the language'
This era was marked by the invasion of Goa and subsequent exodus to Marhatta territory and Canara (today's coastal Karnaraka) and Cochin.
- Hindu exodus ( between 1312–1327 when General Malik Kafur of the Delhi Sultans Alauddin Khilji and Muhammed bin Tughlaq destroyedGovepuri and the Kadambas
- Hindu exodus subsequent to 1470 when the Bahamani kingdom captured Goa, and subsequently in 1492 by Sultan Yusuf Adil Shah of Bijapur
- Hindu exodus due to persecution and proselytisation of Hindus by Portuguese Jesuit and Franciscan missionaries subsequent to 1500
- Hindu, Muslim and Neo-Catholic Christian exodus during the Inquisition ordered by St. Francis Xavier which was established in 1560 and abolished in 1812.
These events caused the Konkani language to evolve into multiple dialects. The exodus to coastal Karnataka and Kerala required Konkani speakers in these regions to learn the local languages and hence this caused penetration of local words into the dialects of Konkani spoken by these speakers. e.g. the word dār (door) gave way to the word bāgil . The phoneme "a" in the Salcette dialect was replaced by the phoneme "o"
Other Konkani communities came into being with their own dialects of Konkani. The Konkani Muslim communities of Ratnagiri and Bhatkal came about due to a mixture of intermarriage of Arab seafarers and locals as well as conversions of Hindus to Islam.Another migrant community that picked up Konkani was the Siddis who were sailor-warriors from Ethiopia.
References
'Konkani', 'Maharashtrian Konkani' and 'Goan Konkani'
This is with regard to the classification of Konkani dialects. This has already been discussed earlier. To summarise, the speakers of the Konkani dialects of Maharashtra and the Konkani language both call their respective tongues Konkani. For this reason, the names 'Maharashtrian Konkani' and 'Goan Konkani' are used to differentiate the two usages of the word Konkani. The dialects comprising Maharashtrian Konkani have collectively been assigned the ISO code knn while the rest of the Konkani dialects come under the ISO code gom. The languages with the ISO codes knn and gom are grouped together under the Konkani macrolanguage with ISO code kok. However the term 'Goan Konkani' being used to refer to the non-maharashtrian dialects is misleading and indeed a misnomer because the dialects under the ISO code kok are not confined to the territory of the state of Goa (eg. Mangalorean and Malvani) and in common parlance, Goan Konkani is understood to be the dialects spoken in the geographical area of Goa (eg. Antruz, Saxtti and Bardeskari). This classification is shown in the image. Hence, 'Goan Konkani' should be used carefully, and as far as possible should be avoided when referring collectively to the non-maharashtrian dialects. The Discoverer (talk) 22:16, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
Konkani Bhagban sahoo (talk) 08:30, 30 September 2021 (UTC)
Austroasiatic? Or DravidiaN?
The current article text contains:
"The substratum of the Konkani language lies in the speech of Austroasiatic tribes called Kurukh, Oraon, and Kukni,"
When I looked up Kurukh and Oraon (on Misplaced Pages), they were mentioned as being Dravidian. That is something different from Austroasiatic. Did something go wrong?Redav (talk) 23:39, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Konkani (disambiguation) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 09:35, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
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