Misplaced Pages

:Administrators' noticeboard/Community sanction: Difference between revisions - Misplaced Pages

Article snapshot taken from Wikipedia with creative commons attribution-sharealike license. Give it a read and then ask your questions in the chat. We can research this topic together.
< Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard Browse history interactively← Previous editNext edit →Content deleted Content addedVisualWikitext
Revision as of 14:49, 18 April 2007 view sourceThatcher (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users28,287 edits →Arbitrary break 2: case for arbitration← Previous edit Revision as of 15:13, 18 April 2007 view source Tony Sidaway (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers81,722 edits →User:Tobias Conradi: I have taken this to arbitration: http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration&diff=123822819&oldid=123802081Next edit →
Line 150: Line 150:


I would also like to '''edorse referral to arbitration.''' This is a complex case. CBD portrays this as snowballing from some bad blocks. I briefly reviewed one of Tobias' alleged admin abuses (a contested speedy deletion of something he wrote) and found his complaint to be entirely without merit. However, this is not to say that some of his complaints might not be valid, especially if CBD is right about the blocks. An arbitration case could reach a number of different findings, perhaps recognizing officially that some of Tobias' blocks were inappropriate or at least unwise (which might go a long way toward easing an apparent grudge), while also including findings that his subsequent behavior was disruptive. Also, as long as there is significant disagreement on whether to ban or parole Tobias, ArbCom is a more appropriate venue than this page. This board lacks the ability to investigate and deliberate on complex issues and often (without implying criticism of any one person) seems to function like VfB (votes for banning). ] 14:49, 18 April 2007 (UTC) I would also like to '''edorse referral to arbitration.''' This is a complex case. CBD portrays this as snowballing from some bad blocks. I briefly reviewed one of Tobias' alleged admin abuses (a contested speedy deletion of something he wrote) and found his complaint to be entirely without merit. However, this is not to say that some of his complaints might not be valid, especially if CBD is right about the blocks. An arbitration case could reach a number of different findings, perhaps recognizing officially that some of Tobias' blocks were inappropriate or at least unwise (which might go a long way toward easing an apparent grudge), while also including findings that his subsequent behavior was disruptive. Also, as long as there is significant disagreement on whether to ban or parole Tobias, ArbCom is a more appropriate venue than this page. This board lacks the ability to investigate and deliberate on complex issues and often (without implying criticism of any one person) seems to function like VfB (votes for banning). ] 14:49, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

: I have taken this to . --] 15:13, 18 April 2007 (UTC)


== Subtle vandalism by ] and his sockpuppets... == == Subtle vandalism by ] and his sockpuppets... ==

Revision as of 15:13, 18 April 2007

Template loop detected: Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Community sanction/Header



Complex vandalism by User:Anacapa

copied from WP:AN
User:Anacapa has disrupted feminism and gender studies related pages from November 2006 - Feb 2007. Signing-off with the moniker "(drop in editor)" using multiple IPs they have made spurious accusations of misconduct against "feminist" editors; pushed POV edits on gender studies pages that warp articles such as women's studies into critiques of women's studies; and multiposted an extract from a book by an antifeminist on at least 4 talk pages.

Anacapa/(drop in editor)'s complex vandalism persisted until February 2007 when they misrepresented sources and factual information on Feminism attempting to create two criticism sections in the one article. a similar tactic was used on women's studies where the criticism section was longer the rest of the article. A few days ago I identified the same editing style and pattern, as well as 2 shared IP addresses between (drop in editor) and User:Anacapa. Since February 2007 User:Anacapa/(drop in editor) has been dormant. I am requesting a community sanction against User:Anacapa for their long term disruptive behaviour.
See also: User:Cailil/Complex_vandalism_on_feminism_and_gender_studies_related_articles

After asking User:Durova for advice I reported the situation here.--Cailil 00:34, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Are we asking for a community ban or a community topic ban on an editor that hasn't edited in two months? There's no sign that there is anything ongoing from this editor, either from a registered account or an IP Address? I'm just afraid any topic/site ban from the community would be closing the barn doors after the horses have already left. SirFozzie 03:31, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
To expand on my sentence above, if it was ongoing, I would wholeheartedly agree that this is a PoV pushing account that needs a topic ban.. I'm just not sure that with at least 4 weeks since the latest post by this account (or IP), I'm not sure that I can fully get behind it. SirFozzie 04:48, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Based upon my experience fighting the Joan of Arc vandal and JB196, I believe it's necessary to be flexible about our time frame of response to a really long term sneaky vandal. This isn't drive-by vandalism that goes away through benign neglect. This sort of person will change tactics or sit out a while when they sense the heat is on, then return to cause more damage. So yes, this is a worthy exception to our usual standards about account activity. Durova 13:12, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
  • I apologize for the length of time it took me to bring this here, but in all honesty I took me weeks just to complie diffs & to prove that Anacapa was the same user as (drop in editor). I also think it is more than possible that they will return. Anacapa has taken wikibreaks before, certainly between May 2006 and October 2006 there was no activity on their account, but when they came back they were just as active as before. I expect Anacapa to resurface, it would be consistent with their behaviour & pattern of edits--Cailil 11:11, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
You have nothing to apologize for, Cailil, this is well researched and Durova's post above that this is a special case (that community sanctions won't become a common bludgeon to be used against an editor who's since quit his activity through either inactivity or behavior modification), I support a ban. SirFozzie 15:13, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm familiar with (drop in editor) and I have to agree that this is one of the more disruptive editors within their sphere of interests. Far more interested in starting off-topic arguments and derailing discussion than in actually building an encyclopedia. Based on their previous tendency to sit and wait, I would also expect this one to return again to the same tactics, and so I support enacting this ban now. The smoking gun imho is 209.129.49.65 signing as Anacapa, but even if they couldn't be connected I would support a ban on (drop in editor). I would suggest not advertising the list of evidence from any pages this editor frequents; if possible it would be best for them not to know what their own telltale habits are (people often are unaware of their own quirks). When they come back, better to be prepared to begin reverting and blocking, than to have a ban discussion later in the midst of the damage. Good find, Cailil. — coelacan — 00:30, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

  • After quickly scanning (and if I have missed it, please throw egg on me :P) I do not see what is being asked. Topic ban, siteban, what type of sanction is being requested here? Navou 13:28, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
I'd suggest a community ban is more appropriate than a topic ban for User:Anacapa. I can only show evidence of their disruption on the gender category pages but I've seen at least anecdotal evidence of issues with their behaviour in other topics.--Cailil 14:03, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Didn't this user propose policing the use of "gender" and "sex" in all Misplaced Pages articles? If we attempt a topic ban it might have to stretch to the entire encyclopedia anyway. Natalie 22:24, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

User:Tobias Conradi

User:Tobias Conradi is placed on civility parole. 1 week block by uninvolved admin for violations: after two such blocks, the block length may escalate in accordance with administrative discretion. Recreation of personal attacks can result in a indef block. When in dispute with others, he is encouraged to remain calm and follow the usual channels of dispute resolution in order to seek an amicable resolution, rather than simply cataloging perceived wrongs. The editor is strongly urged to discuss contraversial page moves. Failure to discuss a move may result in a brief block by an uninvolved admin. The block log will state specifically that blocks placed are a result of this discussion in the block log. Navou 12:25, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

I think we've all had enough of this user. A perusal of his block log and talk page will show you all we need to know. This user has been uncivil, and has been here for nearly a year, so it's not like he doesn't know better. It all has accumulated in the thread on AN. 18:30, 17 April 2007 (UTC)Too many ~s, Part Deux? :o)   REDVERS ↔ SЯEVDEЯ 

Agreed. Uncivil and Argumentative with apparently no chance at improving either. SirFozzie 18:36, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Uncivil and Argumentative? Why not go for a civility parole if this is case? If that's the problem there's no need to siteban outright. Lesser measures should be tried first. I could be wrong, but either way some diffs of this behaviour would be nice. Moreschi 18:40, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, I should have expanded it. Constant recreation of attack materials on his userpage (see , that was actually the THIRD go-round on his material. I'd be willing to go for Civility Parole with a promise NOT to recreate that material for a fourth time, but I have a hard time thinking that he'll follow it. SirFozzie 18:44, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
(ec x2)If I may point out from what I have seen, this user feels unjustly persecuted by members of the admin community and other members of the community at large. Request for a community ban only furthers this feeling. I believe this needs to be reviewed either by ArbCom or at minimum uninvolved editors/administrators who take into account the fact this editor has had serious concerns that were never addressed, and an attempt to catalog what he feels as abuses of power, he has been shot down and censored. CASCADIA/Trail 18:45, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
I have a hard time buying "let's try something else first" when he's got such a huge block log. Looks like all sorts of things have already been tried. Is there any evidence that he's here to work on an encyclopedia? Friday (talk) 18:46, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
evidence that Tobias Conradi is here to work on an encyclopedia? Who made more edits in the mainspace, the abusive admins or Tobias Conradi? Tobias Conradi (Talk) 23:44, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Tobias, you're on thin ice as it is, please stop the equivalent of tap dancing on it. (Yes, I know, horrible metaphor, but eh) SirFozzie 23:47, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

(ec x5)Just to diff people up as requested - here is where people started to get annoyed on AN, then here, then this bit of clear trolling here, and here. The matter was summed up in the now archived discussion here. Time for the parting of the ways, I think.   REDVERS ↔ SЯEVDEЯ  18:47, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

(ec)If I may point out, in many of the diffs/links you've added show that the user in question raised a concern and was replied with remarks to 'just move on', and even some snide and uncivil comments (such as *cough*potcallingthekettleblack*cough*). No one it appears have assumed good faith on many of this users concerns and simply either poo-pooed the discussion or inflamed the situation any more with their comments. Also, this user feels as if the community is attempting to censor his concerns over alleged admin abuse. While the editor should be requested to take those requests to arbcom, 'deleting' them and removing them only provokes the situation. Tobias is not in the clear here, but there have been issues on both ends. CASCADIA/Trail 18:59, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Two options here, then.

  1. Tobias Conradi is placed on civility parole. If is deemed be any uninivolved adminstrator to be in violation of WP:CIVIL, he may be blocked for up to a week: after two such blocks, the block length may escalate in accordance with administrative discretion. Additionally, if he recreates material in his userspace that contains personal attacks against members of the Misplaced Pages community - for example, stuff like this - he may be blocked indefinitely by any adminstrator without warning. When in dispute with others, he is encouraged to remain calm and follow the usual channels of dispute resolution in order to seek an amicable resolution, rather than simply cataloging perceived wrongs. He is also strongly urged to discuss potentially controversial page-moves before making them: continual violation of this final condition may result in a brief block from an uninvolved admin: adminstrators are urged to use their brains when implementing this condition. All blocks to be logged on this noticeboard.
  2. Or we just siteban him. I personally favour option 1: thoughts? Moreschi 18:54, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Does he have a long block log? Yup. Is he being accused of trolling right now based on limited and misunderstood evidence? Yup. Is that probably making the situation worse? Yup. Make it a civility parole, and make it with admins who have been uninvolved with blocking him in the past - if he's able to reform, he will, and if he's not, we've shown we made more than a good faith effort to give him a proper hearing and listen to his concerns. --badlydrawnjeff talk 18:57, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
  • I can go with Option 1, as long as it's made utterly clear that he is exhausting the community's patience (then again, I'm pretty sure that this thread makes it clear, as well) SirFozzie 18:59, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Fair enough: I just tweaked the parole conditions slightly to reflect that. This editor does seem to have a history of valuable encyclopedic work, along with the bad stuff. Methinks an editor worth trying to retain but also rein in. Moreschi 18:59, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
    • Just in case anyone asks: yes, those conditions are maybe fairly harsh for civility parole, but this guy has a history, a lengthy block log, and has been around long enough to know better. Moreschi 19:02, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
      • Better. The editor should also be advised that any further accusations of admin wrong doing need to be taken to the appropriate location. If he chooses to catalog such issues, he should do so in a text file on his PC, or a blog should he choose to do so. CASCADIA/Trail 19:07, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
  • I would also support option 1. I would also like it if an uninvolved admin were to drop by his talk page and discuss some of Tobias' grievances with an open mind. As he has rather a lot, I would suggest the conversation begins with just his top two or three. This might help balance things a little. --Dweller 19:13, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Perhaps for option (1) rather than being specifically about recreation of certain material, it should be that if he is in dispute with others he shoud follow the proper dispute resolution channels. (That would preclude merely creating his catalog of perceived misdeeds). --pgk 19:21, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
    • I added something to that effect, but without removing the bit about the junk on his userpage. We just can't have people doing that: it's massively disruptive and strikes at the basis of assuming good faith on which this project is based. Best, Moreschi 19:25, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Can a community sanction address the issues raised about the editor here: ? ShivaIdol 19:41, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps a condition of the civility parole be that he seek consensus for all page moves before doing them? SirFozzie 19:43, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Like this? Moreschi 19:46, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
I'd prefer seek consensus for ALL page moves (reduces the chance that trouble could be caused when one side thinks it's "possibly controversial" and the other side disagrees). But I might be quibbling over details. SirFozzie 19:51, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Most of his page-moves have apparently been fine and unreverted: it's only some that have caused a problem. I'm wary of to what extent we should legislate over editing habits in this manner. WP:BRD does exist, and is not a bad idea, and applies to page-moves. Moreschi 19:54, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
The problem concerning WP:BRD is that unlike page edits, moves often can't be reverted without the significant hassle of going through the WP:RM process, as described at WP:MOVE. This really puts the people on the receiving end of the editor’s mass page moves at a significant disadvantage. WP:MOVE says In several cases, you should list pages that you want to have renamed / moved at Misplaced Pages:Requested moves, and list several cases such as if you believe the move might be controversial. Since the editor didn't do this for any of the 100 page moves cited in April, including some FA standard pages, something needs to change (and maybe be enforced) with his editing mindset. ShivaIdol 20:19, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Hopefully the whole shebang here will have rubbed in the message that this editor has almost exhausted the community's patience. With luck, Tobias Conradi will act with more care in the future in all his actions on-wiki. I don't see a need for more punitive measures, which are evil anyway. Moreschi 20:26, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Civility parole sounds good, but with follow-through. It's frustrating to see a talented editor get locked into this cycle of conspiracy and recrimination, and if there's something reasonable that can be done, it's worth trying. - CHAIRBOY (☎) 19:53, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
    • This archived discussion, in my view, shows sufficient justification what the current state of the proposal regarding this editor - not only the page-move mess but also plenty of casual incivility en route, but the last part has to be implemented with care, otherwise we'll get a right mess. This is enough of a slam-dunk of us to be able to keep this one away from ArbCom for now. Moreschi 20:22, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
This sort of rant is really a disruptive influence on the project. InBC 20:35, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
If the community civility parole was in affect right now, that would be violation #1 of WP:CIVIL right there, at least to me. SirFozzie 20:39, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

If it were any other contributor I'd favour option 2, as Tobias has had a LOT of chances in the past. But he does have a lot of positive contributions, regardless of how abrasive and inconsiderate some may find his actions. So I favour option 1. However I seem to remember being near this same place (one step away from a community ban) at least once before. I still favour 1 though. ++Lar: t/c 20:45, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't know why Tobias Conradi is so full of venom towards Misplaced Pages administrators. But I'm somewhat puzzled that people are only putting him on civility parole after he has received 23 blocks, from 9 different administrators, over a 14-month period. Does anyone know any positive precedents? I.e. people who have come back (and stopped being intensely annoying) after 23 blocks? At one time (several months ago) I briefly crossed paths with him, and thought of engaging him in a Talk page conversation, but after viewing his previous Talk comments I decided I'd move to a different area. At any normal rate of block escalation, 23 blocks would be over the threshold of a permanent ban. EdJohnston 22:57, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
We have a good process for well established editors who do good work but are also a bit of a handful. I suggest that we use it. Make a case in a new request for comments, and we'll see how it goes. If things don't improve we can go to request for arbitration. --Tony Sidaway 01:13, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Just a general comment, It looks like this editor is being given a surprising amount of lee-way because of his valued contributions to the project, but after reading the comment above, I find myself wondering if tolerating one very active editor may have cost us countless less active but equally as valued contributors along the way. You know, would we rather tolerate, through gritted teeth, one really rather unpleasant editor making 1000 edits at the expense of countless editors each making 10 edits. That perhaps is something that needs to be thought about. -- Nick 01:17, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Tobias has just been indefblocked by ZScout (per this discussion on the block log), so I guess that's that. SirFozzie 01:38, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

To me it looks like the consensus was for option 1 (civility parole). Why was option 2 (indefinite community ban) the one implemented? Sjakkalle (Check!) 10:43, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

I'd have let this run a bit longer. But I won't overturn unless consensus here at Misplaced Pages:Community_sanction_noticeboard#User:Tobias_Conradi seems very clear. ++Lar: t/c 11:36, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

I was very surprised at this action. It seemed unilateral. Consensus seemed to pretty firmly have been reached for option 1, before some voices with some justification began to query the rationale, but no consensus for an indef block had been reached here. Perhaps what happened is as follows: my reading of the user's talk page is that he's unrepentant and unwilling to back down at all, rendering option 1 impossible? --Dweller 11:44, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

If there is no consensus to overturn this, and there is still substantial disunity on the indefinite block, I think we should take this to arbitration. By myself I would accept the block as a reasonable interpretation, but if there are a substantial number of others expressing disquiet about blocking a long-time editor in this way I think it's a classic case for arbitration. --Tony Sidaway 11:53, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
Surely matters can be a little simpler: overturn the indefblock and use the suggested civility parole instead? There seems to be consensus for the parole. Moreschi 12:07, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
Or we could, alternatively, approach Zscout370 and be nice. Then we might save ourselves a bit of a hassle. --Iamunknown 12:10, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
Sure. Quite possibly he knows something we don't. Moreschi 12:11, 18 April 2007 (UTC)


I agree with Tony. The matter seems to warrant arbitration. Community-permaban seems to be an unfair option for a long-time very productive editor. Does he has a current misdead warranting a temporary block? I do not think his edit on Chairboy's talk warrants blocking. There was a strange software glitch on the deletion of Tobias' User page that make it look like an oversighted deletion. Indeed if the page was oversighted it would have been an abuse of oversight rights. We know that Chairboy does not have the oversight bit and the admins can look into the deleted history and see that all the revisions are there. Tobias cannot. Thus, I would discount the matter as a misunderstanding caused by a rare software bug.
If no other opinions I propose to unblock Tobias.
BTW the main grievance against him are unilateral article moves. Can we somehow adopt a community-enforced 0R on article movement on Tobias? If he moves an article and anybody find the move controversial, then he can just revert the movement, if the reversion require an admin bit any admin would help. Tobias cannot re-revert moves or would have a 24h block. It seems enforceable and solves most of the problems. If it would work the arbitration might not be needed Alex Bakharev 12:24, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
I already left Zscout a message. I've found him quite reasonable and willing to explain his actions in the past, so I think once he gets a chance to respond this should all get sorted out... I'd rather not see this go to arbitration if we, the community, can avoid it... the case is perhaps simple enough. I'll say that I recall proposal of a commmunity ban at least once before and it was avoided with a pretty clear "last chance" sort of thinking/rationale, IIRC (the diffs are hard to dig up given how many ANI archives there are). CBD knows more context as well. Let's not block or unblock further till it is clear what consensus is. ++Lar: t/c 12:30, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
Argh, so many things happening at once. An unblock request is already at ANI, Lar. --Iamunknown 12:31, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
I don't think its time for part 2 to be archived yet. --Iamunknown 12:35, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Arbitrary break 1

A little under a year ago Tobias Conradi was kidding around with User:Ezhiki in e-mail and then as a joke blanked Ezhiki's user page. For this he received a vandalism block despite a long history of positive contributions, no past history of vandalism, no vandalism warnings, et cetera. He complained. Loudly. Ezhiki jumped in and said, 'no no it was just a joke'. The initial block was removed. But then new blocks were imposed to punish the incivility in his complaints about the original block... so he complained about those blocks... which led to more blocks. All the while his 'list of admin abuses' continued to grow. Somewhere in the neighborhood of twenty entries on his block log are directly derived from that page blanking and the fallout over it... and all but a few of the others are indirectly related (e.g. he was denied access to AWB because of his long block log, he complained, he got blocked, the block was found to be before he was warned - so he was unblocked, but he complained about the block so he was blocked again, et cetera). In another series he was blocked a few times for 'sockpuppetry' after two accounts showed up asking for his block to be reviewed - his talk page had been protected to prevent him from doing so himself. Checkuser later found that these were not sockpuppets, but rather friends from entirely different countries (he runs an 'international tango dancers' website of some sort) who had posted because Tobias asked them to. Somewhere along the line he called the Wikimedia foundation to complain - and according to Tobias someone there mocked, insulted, and yelled at him. He tried to complain about this on Meta and by adding it as an example of problems in articles about Misplaced Pages and the communication committee. More blocks. Longer 'admin abuses' list.

Tobias Conradi has reason to feel abused - because he has been. Yes, he 'leaves himself open' by getting mad and denouncing the "abusers" who blocked him by mistake/outside process, deleted his stub, blanked/deleted his user page, called him names, et cetera... he isn't friendly or forgiving in conflicts and the language barrier sometimes adds an extra level of difficulty to dialogs. He could be alot more patient and accepting of mistakes and disagreements, but then so could the admins and others who have been in conflict with him. Many people recently told me that it was improper to issue a 24 hour block to a long term user with thousands of positive contributions 'just' because they'd received over a dozen warnings about harassing another user and repeatedly calling them things like "moron".... meanwhile Tobias Conradi is just as long term a user with just as many positive contributions, who sometimes gets blocked if someone thinks he looked at them funny. The real difference? Tobias Conradi has fewer friends.
So where does this leave us? Tobias Conradi will complain harshly about what he considers unfair treatment. That's obvious from the history. Things he has perceived as unfair/abuses include those which I would call misunderstandings, legitimate disagreements, and yes many actual 'abuses'. In the world of what Misplaced Pages claims to be (at least when a 'popular' user is the one causing the hubub) we admins would 'be the bigger people' and accept these complaints stoically and politely work with Tobias to straighten things out. In the world of what Misplaced Pages actually is he will get blocked... which will lead to more complaints and more blocks. It has happened over and over again. Even here... people are talking civility parole - someone comes along and does an indefinite block instead. Think Tobias won't call that an abuse? Add it to the list? Get blocked again for complaining about it?
I'd like to see Tobias allowed to continue editing and his complaints dealt with patiently and fairly. I just don't see that actually happening. There is always going to be someone who is quick on the block trigger and the cycle just goes on and on. --CBD 12:36, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

<edit conflicts>What's the rush with closing discussion that's still ongoing, reporting to ANI etc? Waiting for Zscout seems reasonable. A message to that effect could be posted at Tobias' talk page. --Dweller 12:37, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

<edit conflict again>A lot of people are suggesting he is 'productive' and 'prolific' and thus valued. Is quantity an automatic sign of quality? In fact, it is this quantity of unilateral moves that has annoyed a number of others. It is not just about admins - but us lowly normal editors. It is only worsened as he refuses to cooperate, is overly hostile and paranoid, and consistently uncivil, while telling-off other users who disagree with his edits claiming he is 'attacked' and editors are 'xenophobic' and more often than not a list of policies that his 'attackers' have violated.

No-one disagrees this guy has a major and ongoing incivilty problem - and has been blocked and mentored before for just this - look at his talk page. Thus, one would presume his contributions to the encyclopedia must be amazing to excuse his incivilty. For me, such invaluable quality doesn't jump out of the page. From my quick perusal of this talk page, his contribs are unilateral moves, and followed by a whole of disambigging to the new locations. Not a team player. Perhaps I am wrong (really) and missed what is so valuable about his contributions. Maybe there is value - but could they be pointed out? Merbabu 12:38, 18 April 2007 (UTC)


If one accepts that the earlier blocked (now revoked) didn't actually happen then the 'solution consensus' it's a step foward to managing the issue. I would be more satisfied if Tobias' 'valuable' contributions are pointed out, ie the ones referred to above that apparently excuse such persistant incivility and disruption. But, yes solution is fine with me for now. Merbabu 12:57, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
I am going to assume good faith on both the indef, and the unblock, I know Z will do the same after s/he reads the above discussion. I don't like edits like overturn, revoke. The editor was unblocked. :P What I am looking for is substantial objections to the above solution and summary. In order for me to undo the closure, there would have to be a stronger consensus or no consensus above. If the only objections to the closure, are process objections, not the consensus for solution objections, I do not see much good in unclosing this already closed discussion. I am not averse to more discussion, but I would prefer that if there are objections, they regard to the summary and not the process. If the process is messed up, we should take it to the talk page of this project. With best regards, Navou 13:16, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Erm, yes. Unless I'm misreading it (possible) it doesn't reflect the status quo, which is that he's currently indefblocked. Anyway, what's the hurry? --Dweller 12:58, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Arbitrary break 2

He's been unblocked, which I think is fair enough. I've left a gently worded message on his talk page urging him to listen to what has been said here. Hopefully, he will do so, and we can all move on. Moreschi 13:11, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to see this case go to arbitration as suggested by Tony Sidaway. It’s a totally fallacious argument to suggest that this editor’s gross and consistent incivility and disruption over a long period of time can be excused and overlooked for any reason. It’s unfortunate there are a number of admins who are prepared to turn a blind eye to his behavior. Sweeping these problems under this carpet again and again has been proven not to work with this editor. ShivaIdol 13:16, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

To do what? Get him banned? How is that productive? If the community won't, I doubt the arbitrators will. The civility parole will mean these problems are not swept under the carpet: we should give it a chance to work. Moreschi 13:19, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
I refer ShivaIdol to CBD's wise and compassionate words above. I hate it when we lose committed editors. The Project would clearly benefit most from a happier and purely constructive Tobias remaining here. That might be achievable, if handled wisely. --Dweller 13:23, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
I would suggest CBD is cheif among the apologists, willing to back this user regardless of how he behaves. Tobias will continue to game the system, and whenever he runs into trouble with his abusive and disruptive ways, run to his favorite cover excuse claiming that he is being persecuted by rouge admins. It’s a lame defence which apparently induces sympathy in some. ShivaIdol 13:33, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
Is it really necessary to shout "Hang him, Hang him" before this, which is pretty much his last chance, is given time to work? We can afford to let this go for now and busy ourselves elsewhere. He's on civility parole: he violates that, he goes. We can all go and write some articles. Moreschi 13:38, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
AGF, by the way. That's a pretty serious accusation to make against any editor without evidence: please refrain. Moreschi 13:38, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
Is it really necessary to shout "Hang him, Hang him". Yes. By any reasonable application of policies he should be permanently blocked. Is there anyone else with a block log this long? The editor is a dead weight, consuming massive amounts of time in response to his disruptions. His behavior reeks of attention seeking, and the disruption will continue so he can receive the attention he craves. ShivaIdol 14:17, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

I would also like to edorse referral to arbitration. This is a complex case. CBD portrays this as snowballing from some bad blocks. I briefly reviewed one of Tobias' alleged admin abuses (a contested speedy deletion of something he wrote) and found his complaint to be entirely without merit. However, this is not to say that some of his complaints might not be valid, especially if CBD is right about the blocks. An arbitration case could reach a number of different findings, perhaps recognizing officially that some of Tobias' blocks were inappropriate or at least unwise (which might go a long way toward easing an apparent grudge), while also including findings that his subsequent behavior was disruptive. Also, as long as there is significant disagreement on whether to ban or parole Tobias, ArbCom is a more appropriate venue than this page. This board lacks the ability to investigate and deliberate on complex issues and often (without implying criticism of any one person) seems to function like VfB (votes for banning). Thatcher131 14:49, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

I have taken this to arbitration. --Tony Sidaway 15:13, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Subtle vandalism by User:JJonathan and his sockpuppets...

I only became involved in this case recently, so I can only speak of what I've witnessed but this does appear to be a severe long-term problem. JJonathan was originally blocked for these edits and was found to be evading his block with various sockpuppets (see his user page). However, the problem seems to go much deeper than that. Given his habit of identifying himself personally on the talk page of each new account, I searched Google for other 'missed' socks, discovering the older indef-blocked account, User:Js2Jo in the process. This may or may not have been his original account. So, all this may have actually been going on unnoticed for six months or more.

Anyhow, JJonathan's main shtick seems to be the addition of false/uncited information to articles about pop music and pop singers, for example date changing, adding false information, adding numerous uncited 'vocal range' templates to articles and creating hoax articles (see the history of the now-deleted Tatyana Ali's second studio album article, its associated AFD and the Tatyana Ali article itself).

I've been pretty successful at getting his socks blocked and reverting any damage over the past couple of weeks but every time one account is blocked, he just creates another - and another, and another. He is also very subtle with his edits - he'll sandwich the vandalism between style, dab and spelling fixes. As I say, this may have been going on for a very long time, so chances are that there are lots of error-filled articles still out there.

So, in a nutshell - User:JJonathan is already indef-blocked. Is there anything further that can be done? Thanks for taking the time to read my rambling. --Kurt Shaped Box 20:47, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. This guy has used an amazingly annoying amount of sockpuppets. He doesn't seem to have any intention of stopping. IrishGuy 20:58, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
  • I hate to say it, but I think the user is banned under the old style definition "No Admin would consider unblocking him.", so there's not much more you can do. Having dealt with someone somewhat similar in long term vandalization of articles, the two things to remember is WP:RBI, and if you can figure out his ISP, send an abuse report to his ISP. SirFozzie 21:01, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Sigh. If you want to turn that into a formal community ban, then OK, 'cause this guy is a colossal pain in the arse, but there's not much this can help bar getting the socks probably blocked a bit quicker. Possibly contact the checkusers and get them to block his IP for a bit? Huge congrats to Kurt Shaped Box on doing a great job keeping on top of this sock attack, by the way. Moreschi 21:13, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Community ban

Let's just get this done right now, unambiguously, and move on. Support ban, this user has done virtually nothing (as far as I know) but introduce subtle misinformation, probably the worst kind of vandalism in my opinion. Grandmasterka 05:04, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

As per WP:BAN it is not permited to only have a handfull of editors or admin's (specially those that are not armslenght) take such action. --CyclePat 05:38, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
Assides from that. Is it worth while to go through his user contributions and revert them all? --CyclePat 05:43, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
That's not necessarily required (revert-on-sight applies only after the user is banned), but in this particular case with the subtle misinformation, it would probably be very well worth going through and reverting his old edits. Seraphimblade 13:19, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

User:Mr oompapa

I request this user to be banned due to the recent events today, and in the past month. This user first started off spamming hundreds and hundreds of users with wiki-email avadible (including me). With news of a supposed "conspiracy" about Misplaced Pages. Which caused mild disruption, please note he was not blocked. Nothing happened for at least a month until a vandal account appeared called User:Mr oompapa which the following day, (the day I wrote this report) created about 30 sockpuppets using open proxies and then used a month old sleeper account User:The bedtime story man. To remove the WP:RFCU case so the ip range would not be blocked. This user was then blocked as a sock, and watching carefuly. I can see he put an unblock request up saying he was innocent until the admin declined the block as "Obvious abusive sockpuppet" or something to the kind. Suddenly. Mr oompapa's accounts returned, and rapidly attacked his talk page with obscence abuse including His real name. Which it is unknown where the user in particular got this from, and it continued and continued until the page was protected. Now the user has stopped, despite this report on WP:ANI. However due to WP:OVERSIGHT being used and the recovering from page move vandalism, (In which the page was moved to an insulting comment on his real name) Diffs cannot be provided. This is the userpage and he said he was fearing his contributions to Misplaced Pages were at risk to this. However, I do not See for any reason why this particular user should be banned. Retiono Virginian 21:14, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm sure you mean why he SHOULDN'T be banned, but again, he is already indefblocked (and after the report at ANI, I don't think there's ANY admin who'd be willing to unblock, meaning he's already old-style banned) , you have a Checkuser open to get the range that he's using to be blocked, the only thing that perhaps could be done is to ask the WP:ABUSE Folks to send his ISP a note. There isn't much else that can be done. SirFozzie 21:28, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

We can add the banned tag at least, and after all this. We can go for an abuse report if it continues. Retiono Virginian 21:30, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Sounds fine by me. No one in their right mind, let alone any admin, would ever unblock this chap...their are a few crazy admins, but we can ignore them :) Moreschi 21:38, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
I was targeted by this vandal. I support a community ban on the person due to the abuse against myself and against other editors. --Yamla 21:53, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
I don't think a formal ban is necessary in this case. He doesn't make any edits to articles, so it's just a way to employ WP:RBI.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 22:07, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Speaking of abuse reports, WP:ABUSE is severely backlogged, with stuff from the days of Cplot still going unattended. MER-C 10:08, 18 April 2007 (UTC)



Complex vandalism by User:Anacapa

copied from WP:AN
User:Anacapa has disrupted feminism and gender studies related pages from November 2006 - Feb 2007. Signing-off with the moniker "(drop in editor)" using multiple IPs they have made spurious accusations of misconduct against "feminist" editors; pushed POV edits on gender studies pages that warp articles such as women's studies into critiques of women's studies; and multiposted an extract from a book by an antifeminist on at least 4 talk pages.

Anacapa/(drop in editor)'s complex vandalism persisted until February 2007 when they misrepresented sources and factual information on Feminism attempting to create two criticism sections in the one article. a similar tactic was used on women's studies where the criticism section was longer the rest of the article. A few days ago I identified the same editing style and pattern, as well as 2 shared IP addresses between (drop in editor) and User:Anacapa. Since February 2007 User:Anacapa/(drop in editor) has been dormant. I am requesting a community sanction against User:Anacapa for their long term disruptive behaviour.
See also: User:Cailil/Complex_vandalism_on_feminism_and_gender_studies_related_articles

After asking User:Durova for advice I reported the situation here.--Cailil 00:34, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Are we asking for a community ban or a community topic ban on an editor that hasn't edited in two months? There's no sign that there is anything ongoing from this editor, either from a registered account or an IP Address? I'm just afraid any topic/site ban from the community would be closing the barn doors after the horses have already left. SirFozzie 03:31, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
To expand on my sentence above, if it was ongoing, I would wholeheartedly agree that this is a PoV pushing account that needs a topic ban.. I'm just not sure that with at least 4 weeks since the latest post by this account (or IP), I'm not sure that I can fully get behind it. SirFozzie 04:48, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Based upon my experience fighting the Joan of Arc vandal and JB196, I believe it's necessary to be flexible about our time frame of response to a really long term sneaky vandal. This isn't drive-by vandalism that goes away through benign neglect. This sort of person will change tactics or sit out a while when they sense the heat is on, then return to cause more damage. So yes, this is a worthy exception to our usual standards about account activity. Durova 13:12, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
  • I apologize for the length of time it took me to bring this here, but in all honesty I took me weeks just to complie diffs & to prove that Anacapa was the same user as (drop in editor). I also think it is more than possible that they will return. Anacapa has taken wikibreaks before, certainly between May 2006 and October 2006 there was no activity on their account, but when they came back they were just as active as before. I expect Anacapa to resurface, it would be consistent with their behaviour & pattern of edits--Cailil 11:11, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
You have nothing to apologize for, Cailil, this is well researched and Durova's post above that this is a special case (that community sanctions won't become a common bludgeon to be used against an editor who's since quit his activity through either inactivity or behavior modification), I support a ban. SirFozzie 15:13, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm familiar with (drop in editor) and I have to agree that this is one of the more disruptive editors within their sphere of interests. Far more interested in starting off-topic arguments and derailing discussion than in actually building an encyclopedia. Based on their previous tendency to sit and wait, I would also expect this one to return again to the same tactics, and so I support enacting this ban now. The smoking gun imho is 209.129.49.65 signing as Anacapa, but even if they couldn't be connected I would support a ban on (drop in editor). I would suggest not advertising the list of evidence from any pages this editor frequents; if possible it would be best for them not to know what their own telltale habits are (people often are unaware of their own quirks). When they come back, better to be prepared to begin reverting and blocking, than to have a ban discussion later in the midst of the damage. Good find, Cailil. — coelacan — 00:30, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

  • After quickly scanning (and if I have missed it, please throw egg on me :P) I do not see what is being asked. Topic ban, siteban, what type of sanction is being requested here? Navou 13:28, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
I'd suggest a community ban is more appropriate than a topic ban for User:Anacapa. I can only show evidence of their disruption on the gender category pages but I've seen at least anecdotal evidence of issues with their behaviour in other topics.--Cailil 14:03, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Didn't this user propose policing the use of "gender" and "sex" in all Misplaced Pages articles? If we attempt a topic ban it might have to stretch to the entire encyclopedia anyway. Natalie 22:24, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

User:Tobias Conradi

User:Tobias Conradi is placed on civility parole. 1 week block by uninvolved admin for violations: after two such blocks, the block length may escalate in accordance with administrative discretion. Recreation of personal attacks can result in a indef block. When in dispute with others, he is encouraged to remain calm and follow the usual channels of dispute resolution in order to seek an amicable resolution, rather than simply cataloging perceived wrongs. The editor is strongly urged to discuss contraversial page moves. Failure to discuss a move may result in a brief block by an uninvolved admin. The block log will state specifically that blocks placed are a result of this discussion in the block log. Navou 12:25, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

I think we've all had enough of this user. A perusal of his block log and talk page will show you all we need to know. This user has been uncivil, and has been here for nearly a year, so it's not like he doesn't know better. It all has accumulated in the thread on AN. 18:30, 17 April 2007 (UTC)Too many ~s, Part Deux? :o)   REDVERS ↔ SЯEVDEЯ 

Agreed. Uncivil and Argumentative with apparently no chance at improving either. SirFozzie 18:36, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Uncivil and Argumentative? Why not go for a civility parole if this is case? If that's the problem there's no need to siteban outright. Lesser measures should be tried first. I could be wrong, but either way some diffs of this behaviour would be nice. Moreschi 18:40, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, I should have expanded it. Constant recreation of attack materials on his userpage (see , that was actually the THIRD go-round on his material. I'd be willing to go for Civility Parole with a promise NOT to recreate that material for a fourth time, but I have a hard time thinking that he'll follow it. SirFozzie 18:44, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
(ec x2)If I may point out from what I have seen, this user feels unjustly persecuted by members of the admin community and other members of the community at large. Request for a community ban only furthers this feeling. I believe this needs to be reviewed either by ArbCom or at minimum uninvolved editors/administrators who take into account the fact this editor has had serious concerns that were never addressed, and an attempt to catalog what he feels as abuses of power, he has been shot down and censored. CASCADIA/Trail 18:45, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
I have a hard time buying "let's try something else first" when he's got such a huge block log. Looks like all sorts of things have already been tried. Is there any evidence that he's here to work on an encyclopedia? Friday (talk) 18:46, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
evidence that Tobias Conradi is here to work on an encyclopedia? Who made more edits in the mainspace, the abusive admins or Tobias Conradi? Tobias Conradi (Talk) 23:44, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Tobias, you're on thin ice as it is, please stop the equivalent of tap dancing on it. (Yes, I know, horrible metaphor, but eh) SirFozzie 23:47, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

(ec x5)Just to diff people up as requested - here is where people started to get annoyed on AN, then here, then this bit of clear trolling here, and here. The matter was summed up in the now archived discussion here. Time for the parting of the ways, I think.   REDVERS ↔ SЯEVDEЯ  18:47, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

(ec)If I may point out, in many of the diffs/links you've added show that the user in question raised a concern and was replied with remarks to 'just move on', and even some snide and uncivil comments (such as *cough*potcallingthekettleblack*cough*). No one it appears have assumed good faith on many of this users concerns and simply either poo-pooed the discussion or inflamed the situation any more with their comments. Also, this user feels as if the community is attempting to censor his concerns over alleged admin abuse. While the editor should be requested to take those requests to arbcom, 'deleting' them and removing them only provokes the situation. Tobias is not in the clear here, but there have been issues on both ends. CASCADIA/Trail 18:59, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Two options here, then.

  1. Tobias Conradi is placed on civility parole. If is deemed be any uninivolved adminstrator to be in violation of WP:CIVIL, he may be blocked for up to a week: after two such blocks, the block length may escalate in accordance with administrative discretion. Additionally, if he recreates material in his userspace that contains personal attacks against members of the Misplaced Pages community - for example, stuff like this - he may be blocked indefinitely by any adminstrator without warning. When in dispute with others, he is encouraged to remain calm and follow the usual channels of dispute resolution in order to seek an amicable resolution, rather than simply cataloging perceived wrongs. He is also strongly urged to discuss potentially controversial page-moves before making them: continual violation of this final condition may result in a brief block from an uninvolved admin: adminstrators are urged to use their brains when implementing this condition. All blocks to be logged on this noticeboard.
  2. Or we just siteban him. I personally favour option 1: thoughts? Moreschi 18:54, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Does he have a long block log? Yup. Is he being accused of trolling right now based on limited and misunderstood evidence? Yup. Is that probably making the situation worse? Yup. Make it a civility parole, and make it with admins who have been uninvolved with blocking him in the past - if he's able to reform, he will, and if he's not, we've shown we made more than a good faith effort to give him a proper hearing and listen to his concerns. --badlydrawnjeff talk 18:57, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
  • I can go with Option 1, as long as it's made utterly clear that he is exhausting the community's patience (then again, I'm pretty sure that this thread makes it clear, as well) SirFozzie 18:59, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Fair enough: I just tweaked the parole conditions slightly to reflect that. This editor does seem to have a history of valuable encyclopedic work, along with the bad stuff. Methinks an editor worth trying to retain but also rein in. Moreschi 18:59, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
    • Just in case anyone asks: yes, those conditions are maybe fairly harsh for civility parole, but this guy has a history, a lengthy block log, and has been around long enough to know better. Moreschi 19:02, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
      • Better. The editor should also be advised that any further accusations of admin wrong doing need to be taken to the appropriate location. If he chooses to catalog such issues, he should do so in a text file on his PC, or a blog should he choose to do so. CASCADIA/Trail 19:07, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
  • I would also support option 1. I would also like it if an uninvolved admin were to drop by his talk page and discuss some of Tobias' grievances with an open mind. As he has rather a lot, I would suggest the conversation begins with just his top two or three. This might help balance things a little. --Dweller 19:13, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Perhaps for option (1) rather than being specifically about recreation of certain material, it should be that if he is in dispute with others he shoud follow the proper dispute resolution channels. (That would preclude merely creating his catalog of perceived misdeeds). --pgk 19:21, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
    • I added something to that effect, but without removing the bit about the junk on his userpage. We just can't have people doing that: it's massively disruptive and strikes at the basis of assuming good faith on which this project is based. Best, Moreschi 19:25, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Can a community sanction address the issues raised about the editor here: ? ShivaIdol 19:41, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps a condition of the civility parole be that he seek consensus for all page moves before doing them? SirFozzie 19:43, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Like this? Moreschi 19:46, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
I'd prefer seek consensus for ALL page moves (reduces the chance that trouble could be caused when one side thinks it's "possibly controversial" and the other side disagrees). But I might be quibbling over details. SirFozzie 19:51, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Most of his page-moves have apparently been fine and unreverted: it's only some that have caused a problem. I'm wary of to what extent we should legislate over editing habits in this manner. WP:BRD does exist, and is not a bad idea, and applies to page-moves. Moreschi 19:54, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
The problem concerning WP:BRD is that unlike page edits, moves often can't be reverted without the significant hassle of going through the WP:RM process, as described at WP:MOVE. This really puts the people on the receiving end of the editor’s mass page moves at a significant disadvantage. WP:MOVE says In several cases, you should list pages that you want to have renamed / moved at Misplaced Pages:Requested moves, and list several cases such as if you believe the move might be controversial. Since the editor didn't do this for any of the 100 page moves cited in April, including some FA standard pages, something needs to change (and maybe be enforced) with his editing mindset. ShivaIdol 20:19, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Hopefully the whole shebang here will have rubbed in the message that this editor has almost exhausted the community's patience. With luck, Tobias Conradi will act with more care in the future in all his actions on-wiki. I don't see a need for more punitive measures, which are evil anyway. Moreschi 20:26, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Civility parole sounds good, but with follow-through. It's frustrating to see a talented editor get locked into this cycle of conspiracy and recrimination, and if there's something reasonable that can be done, it's worth trying. - CHAIRBOY (☎) 19:53, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
    • This archived discussion, in my view, shows sufficient justification what the current state of the proposal regarding this editor - not only the page-move mess but also plenty of casual incivility en route, but the last part has to be implemented with care, otherwise we'll get a right mess. This is enough of a slam-dunk of us to be able to keep this one away from ArbCom for now. Moreschi 20:22, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
This sort of rant is really a disruptive influence on the project. InBC 20:35, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
If the community civility parole was in affect right now, that would be violation #1 of WP:CIVIL right there, at least to me. SirFozzie 20:39, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

If it were any other contributor I'd favour option 2, as Tobias has had a LOT of chances in the past. But he does have a lot of positive contributions, regardless of how abrasive and inconsiderate some may find his actions. So I favour option 1. However I seem to remember being near this same place (one step away from a community ban) at least once before. I still favour 1 though. ++Lar: t/c 20:45, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't know why Tobias Conradi is so full of venom towards Misplaced Pages administrators. But I'm somewhat puzzled that people are only putting him on civility parole after he has received 23 blocks, from 9 different administrators, over a 14-month period. Does anyone know any positive precedents? I.e. people who have come back (and stopped being intensely annoying) after 23 blocks? At one time (several months ago) I briefly crossed paths with him, and thought of engaging him in a Talk page conversation, but after viewing his previous Talk comments I decided I'd move to a different area. At any normal rate of block escalation, 23 blocks would be over the threshold of a permanent ban. EdJohnston 22:57, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
We have a good process for well established editors who do good work but are also a bit of a handful. I suggest that we use it. Make a case in a new request for comments, and we'll see how it goes. If things don't improve we can go to request for arbitration. --Tony Sidaway 01:13, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Just a general comment, It looks like this editor is being given a surprising amount of lee-way because of his valued contributions to the project, but after reading the comment above, I find myself wondering if tolerating one very active editor may have cost us countless less active but equally as valued contributors along the way. You know, would we rather tolerate, through gritted teeth, one really rather unpleasant editor making 1000 edits at the expense of countless editors each making 10 edits. That perhaps is something that needs to be thought about. -- Nick 01:17, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Tobias has just been indefblocked by ZScout (per this discussion on the block log), so I guess that's that. SirFozzie 01:38, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

To me it looks like the consensus was for option 1 (civility parole). Why was option 2 (indefinite community ban) the one implemented? Sjakkalle (Check!) 10:43, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

I'd have let this run a bit longer. But I won't overturn unless consensus here at Misplaced Pages:Community_sanction_noticeboard#User:Tobias_Conradi seems very clear. ++Lar: t/c 11:36, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

I was very surprised at this action. It seemed unilateral. Consensus seemed to pretty firmly have been reached for option 1, before some voices with some justification began to query the rationale, but no consensus for an indef block had been reached here. Perhaps what happened is as follows: my reading of the user's talk page is that he's unrepentant and unwilling to back down at all, rendering option 1 impossible? --Dweller 11:44, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

If there is no consensus to overturn this, and there is still substantial disunity on the indefinite block, I think we should take this to arbitration. By myself I would accept the block as a reasonable interpretation, but if there are a substantial number of others expressing disquiet about blocking a long-time editor in this way I think it's a classic case for arbitration. --Tony Sidaway 11:53, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
Surely matters can be a little simpler: overturn the indefblock and use the suggested civility parole instead? There seems to be consensus for the parole. Moreschi 12:07, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
Or we could, alternatively, approach Zscout370 and be nice. Then we might save ourselves a bit of a hassle. --Iamunknown 12:10, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
Sure. Quite possibly he knows something we don't. Moreschi 12:11, 18 April 2007 (UTC)


I agree with Tony. The matter seems to warrant arbitration. Community-permaban seems to be an unfair option for a long-time very productive editor. Does he has a current misdead warranting a temporary block? I do not think his edit on Chairboy's talk warrants blocking. There was a strange software glitch on the deletion of Tobias' User page that make it look like an oversighted deletion. Indeed if the page was oversighted it would have been an abuse of oversight rights. We know that Chairboy does not have the oversight bit and the admins can look into the deleted history and see that all the revisions are there. Tobias cannot. Thus, I would discount the matter as a misunderstanding caused by a rare software bug.
If no other opinions I propose to unblock Tobias.
BTW the main grievance against him are unilateral article moves. Can we somehow adopt a community-enforced 0R on article movement on Tobias? If he moves an article and anybody find the move controversial, then he can just revert the movement, if the reversion require an admin bit any admin would help. Tobias cannot re-revert moves or would have a 24h block. It seems enforceable and solves most of the problems. If it would work the arbitration might not be needed Alex Bakharev 12:24, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
I already left Zscout a message. I've found him quite reasonable and willing to explain his actions in the past, so I think once he gets a chance to respond this should all get sorted out... I'd rather not see this go to arbitration if we, the community, can avoid it... the case is perhaps simple enough. I'll say that I recall proposal of a commmunity ban at least once before and it was avoided with a pretty clear "last chance" sort of thinking/rationale, IIRC (the diffs are hard to dig up given how many ANI archives there are). CBD knows more context as well. Let's not block or unblock further till it is clear what consensus is. ++Lar: t/c 12:30, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
Argh, so many things happening at once. An unblock request is already at ANI, Lar. --Iamunknown 12:31, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
I don't think its time for part 2 to be archived yet. --Iamunknown 12:35, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Arbitrary break 1

A little under a year ago Tobias Conradi was kidding around with User:Ezhiki in e-mail and then as a joke blanked Ezhiki's user page. For this he received a vandalism block despite a long history of positive contributions, no past history of vandalism, no vandalism warnings, et cetera. He complained. Loudly. Ezhiki jumped in and said, 'no no it was just a joke'. The initial block was removed. But then new blocks were imposed to punish the incivility in his complaints about the original block... so he complained about those blocks... which led to more blocks. All the while his 'list of admin abuses' continued to grow. Somewhere in the neighborhood of twenty entries on his block log are directly derived from that page blanking and the fallout over it... and all but a few of the others are indirectly related (e.g. he was denied access to AWB because of his long block log, he complained, he got blocked, the block was found to be before he was warned - so he was unblocked, but he complained about the block so he was blocked again, et cetera). In another series he was blocked a few times for 'sockpuppetry' after two accounts showed up asking for his block to be reviewed - his talk page had been protected to prevent him from doing so himself. Checkuser later found that these were not sockpuppets, but rather friends from entirely different countries (he runs an 'international tango dancers' website of some sort) who had posted because Tobias asked them to. Somewhere along the line he called the Wikimedia foundation to complain - and according to Tobias someone there mocked, insulted, and yelled at him. He tried to complain about this on Meta and by adding it as an example of problems in articles about Misplaced Pages and the communication committee. More blocks. Longer 'admin abuses' list.

Tobias Conradi has reason to feel abused - because he has been. Yes, he 'leaves himself open' by getting mad and denouncing the "abusers" who blocked him by mistake/outside process, deleted his stub, blanked/deleted his user page, called him names, et cetera... he isn't friendly or forgiving in conflicts and the language barrier sometimes adds an extra level of difficulty to dialogs. He could be alot more patient and accepting of mistakes and disagreements, but then so could the admins and others who have been in conflict with him. Many people recently told me that it was improper to issue a 24 hour block to a long term user with thousands of positive contributions 'just' because they'd received over a dozen warnings about harassing another user and repeatedly calling them things like "moron".... meanwhile Tobias Conradi is just as long term a user with just as many positive contributions, who sometimes gets blocked if someone thinks he looked at them funny. The real difference? Tobias Conradi has fewer friends.
So where does this leave us? Tobias Conradi will complain harshly about what he considers unfair treatment. That's obvious from the history. Things he has perceived as unfair/abuses include those which I would call misunderstandings, legitimate disagreements, and yes many actual 'abuses'. In the world of what Misplaced Pages claims to be (at least when a 'popular' user is the one causing the hubub) we admins would 'be the bigger people' and accept these complaints stoically and politely work with Tobias to straighten things out. In the world of what Misplaced Pages actually is he will get blocked... which will lead to more complaints and more blocks. It has happened over and over again. Even here... people are talking civility parole - someone comes along and does an indefinite block instead. Think Tobias won't call that an abuse? Add it to the list? Get blocked again for complaining about it?
I'd like to see Tobias allowed to continue editing and his complaints dealt with patiently and fairly. I just don't see that actually happening. There is always going to be someone who is quick on the block trigger and the cycle just goes on and on. --CBD 12:36, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

<edit conflicts>What's the rush with closing discussion that's still ongoing, reporting to ANI etc? Waiting for Zscout seems reasonable. A message to that effect could be posted at Tobias' talk page. --Dweller 12:37, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

<edit conflict again>A lot of people are suggesting he is 'productive' and 'prolific' and thus valued. Is quantity an automatic sign of quality? In fact, it is this quantity of unilateral moves that has annoyed a number of others. It is not just about admins - but us lowly normal editors. It is only worsened as he refuses to cooperate, is overly hostile and paranoid, and consistently uncivil, while telling-off other users who disagree with his edits claiming he is 'attacked' and editors are 'xenophobic' and more often than not a list of policies that his 'attackers' have violated.

No-one disagrees this guy has a major and ongoing incivilty problem - and has been blocked and mentored before for just this - look at his talk page. Thus, one would presume his contributions to the encyclopedia must be amazing to excuse his incivilty. For me, such invaluable quality doesn't jump out of the page. From my quick perusal of this talk page, his contribs are unilateral moves, and followed by a whole of disambigging to the new locations. Not a team player. Perhaps I am wrong (really) and missed what is so valuable about his contributions. Maybe there is value - but could they be pointed out? Merbabu 12:38, 18 April 2007 (UTC)


If one accepts that the earlier blocked (now revoked) didn't actually happen then the 'solution consensus' it's a step foward to managing the issue. I would be more satisfied if Tobias' 'valuable' contributions are pointed out, ie the ones referred to above that apparently excuse such persistant incivility and disruption. But, yes solution is fine with me for now. Merbabu 12:57, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
I am going to assume good faith on both the indef, and the unblock, I know Z will do the same after s/he reads the above discussion. I don't like edits like overturn, revoke. The editor was unblocked. :P What I am looking for is substantial objections to the above solution and summary. In order for me to undo the closure, there would have to be a stronger consensus or no consensus above. If the only objections to the closure, are process objections, not the consensus for solution objections, I do not see much good in unclosing this already closed discussion. I am not averse to more discussion, but I would prefer that if there are objections, they regard to the summary and not the process. If the process is messed up, we should take it to the talk page of this project. With best regards, Navou 13:16, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Erm, yes. Unless I'm misreading it (possible) it doesn't reflect the status quo, which is that he's currently indefblocked. Anyway, what's the hurry? --Dweller 12:58, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Arbitrary break 2

He's been unblocked, which I think is fair enough. I've left a gently worded message on his talk page urging him to listen to what has been said here. Hopefully, he will do so, and we can all move on. Moreschi 13:11, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to see this case go to arbitration as suggested by Tony Sidaway. It’s a totally fallacious argument to suggest that this editor’s gross and consistent incivility and disruption over a long period of time can be excused and overlooked for any reason. It’s unfortunate there are a number of admins who are prepared to turn a blind eye to his behavior. Sweeping these problems under this carpet again and again has been proven not to work with this editor. ShivaIdol 13:16, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

To do what? Get him banned? How is that productive? If the community won't, I doubt the arbitrators will. The civility parole will mean these problems are not swept under the carpet: we should give it a chance to work. Moreschi 13:19, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
I refer ShivaIdol to CBD's wise and compassionate words above. I hate it when we lose committed editors. The Project would clearly benefit most from a happier and purely constructive Tobias remaining here. That might be achievable, if handled wisely. --Dweller 13:23, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
I would suggest CBD is cheif among the apologists, willing to back this user regardless of how he behaves. Tobias will continue to game the system, and whenever he runs into trouble with his abusive and disruptive ways, run to his favorite cover excuse claiming that he is being persecuted by rouge admins. It’s a lame defence which apparently induces sympathy in some. ShivaIdol 13:33, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
Is it really necessary to shout "Hang him, Hang him" before this, which is pretty much his last chance, is given time to work? We can afford to let this go for now and busy ourselves elsewhere. He's on civility parole: he violates that, he goes. We can all go and write some articles. Moreschi 13:38, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
AGF, by the way. That's a pretty serious accusation to make against any editor without evidence: please refrain. Moreschi 13:38, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
Is it really necessary to shout "Hang him, Hang him". Yes. By any reasonable application of policies he should be permanently blocked. Is there anyone else with a block log this long? The editor is a dead weight, consuming massive amounts of time in response to his disruptions. His behavior reeks of attention seeking, and the disruption will continue so he can receive the attention he craves. ShivaIdol 14:17, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

I would also like to edorse referral to arbitration. This is a complex case. CBD portrays this as snowballing from some bad blocks. I briefly reviewed one of Tobias' alleged admin abuses (a contested speedy deletion of something he wrote) and found his complaint to be entirely without merit. However, this is not to say that some of his complaints might not be valid, especially if CBD is right about the blocks. An arbitration case could reach a number of different findings, perhaps recognizing officially that some of Tobias' blocks were inappropriate or at least unwise (which might go a long way toward easing an apparent grudge), while also including findings that his subsequent behavior was disruptive. Also, as long as there is significant disagreement on whether to ban or parole Tobias, ArbCom is a more appropriate venue than this page. This board lacks the ability to investigate and deliberate on complex issues and often (without implying criticism of any one person) seems to function like VfB (votes for banning). Thatcher131 14:49, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

I have taken this to arbitration. --Tony Sidaway 15:13, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Subtle vandalism by User:JJonathan and his sockpuppets...

I only became involved in this case recently, so I can only speak of what I've witnessed but this does appear to be a severe long-term problem. JJonathan was originally blocked for these edits and was found to be evading his block with various sockpuppets (see his user page). However, the problem seems to go much deeper than that. Given his habit of identifying himself personally on the talk page of each new account, I searched Google for other 'missed' socks, discovering the older indef-blocked account, User:Js2Jo in the process. This may or may not have been his original account. So, all this may have actually been going on unnoticed for six months or more.

Anyhow, JJonathan's main shtick seems to be the addition of false/uncited information to articles about pop music and pop singers, for example date changing, adding false information, adding numerous uncited 'vocal range' templates to articles and creating hoax articles (see the history of the now-deleted Tatyana Ali's second studio album article, its associated AFD and the Tatyana Ali article itself).

I've been pretty successful at getting his socks blocked and reverting any damage over the past couple of weeks but every time one account is blocked, he just creates another - and another, and another. He is also very subtle with his edits - he'll sandwich the vandalism between style, dab and spelling fixes. As I say, this may have been going on for a very long time, so chances are that there are lots of error-filled articles still out there.

So, in a nutshell - User:JJonathan is already indef-blocked. Is there anything further that can be done? Thanks for taking the time to read my rambling. --Kurt Shaped Box 20:47, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. This guy has used an amazingly annoying amount of sockpuppets. He doesn't seem to have any intention of stopping. IrishGuy 20:58, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
  • I hate to say it, but I think the user is banned under the old style definition "No Admin would consider unblocking him.", so there's not much more you can do. Having dealt with someone somewhat similar in long term vandalization of articles, the two things to remember is WP:RBI, and if you can figure out his ISP, send an abuse report to his ISP. SirFozzie 21:01, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Sigh. If you want to turn that into a formal community ban, then OK, 'cause this guy is a colossal pain in the arse, but there's not much this can help bar getting the socks probably blocked a bit quicker. Possibly contact the checkusers and get them to block his IP for a bit? Huge congrats to Kurt Shaped Box on doing a great job keeping on top of this sock attack, by the way. Moreschi 21:13, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Community ban

Let's just get this done right now, unambiguously, and move on. Support ban, this user has done virtually nothing (as far as I know) but introduce subtle misinformation, probably the worst kind of vandalism in my opinion. Grandmasterka 05:04, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

As per WP:BAN it is not permited to only have a handfull of editors or admin's (specially those that are not armslenght) take such action. --CyclePat 05:38, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
Assides from that. Is it worth while to go through his user contributions and revert them all? --CyclePat 05:43, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
That's not necessarily required (revert-on-sight applies only after the user is banned), but in this particular case with the subtle misinformation, it would probably be very well worth going through and reverting his old edits. Seraphimblade 13:19, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

User:Mr oompapa

I request this user to be banned due to the recent events today, and in the past month. This user first started off spamming hundreds and hundreds of users with wiki-email avadible (including me). With news of a supposed "conspiracy" about Misplaced Pages. Which caused mild disruption, please note he was not blocked. Nothing happened for at least a month until a vandal account appeared called User:Mr oompapa which the following day, (the day I wrote this report) created about 30 sockpuppets using open proxies and then used a month old sleeper account User:The bedtime story man. To remove the WP:RFCU case so the ip range would not be blocked. This user was then blocked as a sock, and watching carefuly. I can see he put an unblock request up saying he was innocent until the admin declined the block as "Obvious abusive sockpuppet" or something to the kind. Suddenly. Mr oompapa's accounts returned, and rapidly attacked his talk page with obscence abuse including His real name. Which it is unknown where the user in particular got this from, and it continued and continued until the page was protected. Now the user has stopped, despite this report on WP:ANI. However due to WP:OVERSIGHT being used and the recovering from page move vandalism, (In which the page was moved to an insulting comment on his real name) Diffs cannot be provided. This is the userpage and he said he was fearing his contributions to Misplaced Pages were at risk to this. However, I do not See for any reason why this particular user should be banned. Retiono Virginian 21:14, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm sure you mean why he SHOULDN'T be banned, but again, he is already indefblocked (and after the report at ANI, I don't think there's ANY admin who'd be willing to unblock, meaning he's already old-style banned) , you have a Checkuser open to get the range that he's using to be blocked, the only thing that perhaps could be done is to ask the WP:ABUSE Folks to send his ISP a note. There isn't much else that can be done. SirFozzie 21:28, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

We can add the banned tag at least, and after all this. We can go for an abuse report if it continues. Retiono Virginian 21:30, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Sounds fine by me. No one in their right mind, let alone any admin, would ever unblock this chap...their are a few crazy admins, but we can ignore them :) Moreschi 21:38, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
I was targeted by this vandal. I support a community ban on the person due to the abuse against myself and against other editors. --Yamla 21:53, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
I don't think a formal ban is necessary in this case. He doesn't make any edits to articles, so it's just a way to employ WP:RBI.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 22:07, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Speaking of abuse reports, WP:ABUSE is severely backlogged, with stuff from the days of Cplot still going unattended. MER-C 10:08, 18 April 2007 (UTC)