| Revision as of 20:33, 29 October 2016 editMarkaberk (talk | contribs)58 edits Update Social Movements and Social Media assignment detailsTag: dashboard.wikiedu.org [2.0]← Previous edit | Latest revision as of 23:15, 3 August 2024 edit undoSadko (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Rollbackers81,625 edits OneClickArchived "External links modified" to Talk:Carlos Latuff/Archive 4 | ||
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| ==Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment== | |||
| {{Auto archiving notice|bot=MiszaBot I|age=90|small=no|dounreplied=yes}} | |||
| ⚫ | ] This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available ]. Student editor(s): ]. | ||
| {{small|Above undated message substituted from ] by ] (]) 16:49, 16 January 2022 (UTC)}} | |||
| == RFC : Should the antisemitism bit be mentioned in the lede == | |||
| == Excessive external links == | |||
| {{Archive top|result= This RfC is now being closed because consensus has been reached. In RFC discussions, consensus is based upon the strength of policy-based arguments. However, it is worth noting the !vote-count here, regarding whether the allegation of antisemitism in some of Latuff's cartoons should be included in the lead: ''14'' to include, ''5'' to exclude. Some of the arguments to exclude from the lead or from the first paragraph of the lead are these: (1) the corresponding material in the article body is excessive, false, not reliable, or not connected to Latuff; and (2) any such material in the lead should also include the contrary view that the cartoons are not anti-Semitic, including Latuff’s own refutation of the charge, and/or the quote by Joel Kotek in ''The Forward'' stating that Latuff’s message is anti-Israel rather than anti-Semitic.<p> | |||
| The pertinent section of the Misplaced Pages article is Section 4, titled "Alleged antisemitism". This Section 4 has an NPOV tag at its top, dated May 2014. It is odd that a large majority of editors would like to summarize Section 4 in the lead, but have not agreed as to how that section itself can be made neutral.<p> | |||
| Currently, the latter half of the lead is devoted to this subject. I conclude that there is consensus to include in the lead (after the first paragraph) a statement that some of Latuff's cartoons have been called antisemitic, provided that it includes a refutation by Latuff, plus some information about third-party refutations (such as Kotek’s). And, please do one thing more in the lead's footnotes per ]: clean up, expand, include wikilinks, and include supporting quotations in those footnotes so that they more fully and clearly support what's in the lead.] (]) 18:56, 17 July 2015 (UTC) }} | |||
| .... Following is the entire RfC discussion.] (]) 18:56, 17 July 2015 (UTC) | |||
| We now have five links in the external links section. As per ], this is excessive. See ]: {{tq|Normally, only one official link is included. If the subject of the article has more than one official website, then more than one link may be appropriate, under a very few limited circumstances. However, Misplaced Pages does not provide a comprehensive web directory to every official website. Misplaced Pages does not attempt to document or provide links to every part of the subject's web presence or provide readers with a handy list of all social networking sites. Complete directories lead to clutter and to placing undue emphasis on what the subject says.}} Can we choose which one or two to include and delete the others? | |||
| Should the statement that some of Latuff's cartoons have been called antisemetic be included in the lede? 15:26, 20 June 2015 (UTC) | |||
| ⚫ | :A Google search yields this article as the first result at the twitter page as the second, so I guess it is the most popular official link. ]]] 20:58, 13 November 2018 (UTC) | ||
| == Cuckolding fetish == | |||
| ===Survey=== | |||
| * '''include''' ] and ]. These are well sourced allegations, covered in detail in the body of the article. The lead should serve as a mini-article and cover all major controversies. ] (]) 15:26, 20 June 2015 (UTC) | |||
| * '''don't include''' per ] and ]. ] (]) 20:44, 20 June 2015 (UTC) | |||
| * '''don't include''' pr Pikolas, ] (]) 21:31, 20 June 2015 (UTC) | |||
| * '''include''' The accusations of antisemitism against Latuff's cartoons are a major issue in this article. The ] exists to summarize essential facts (including controversies).--] (]) 02:47, 21 June 2015 (UTC) | |||
| * '''don't include''' Per ] it should be reported (as a controversy, not a fact) according to the material in the article. But the material in the article should before be challenged. Half can be immediately removed because it reports false information, is not from wp:rs or is not linked with Latuff's alleged's antisemitism. Then the attacks should be put in the context of the propaganda war in which any virulent opponent to Irael's policy, such as Latuff, is attacked for antisemitism. Given the huge controversy around this, compliance with ] is more important from my point of view and should be predominant. ] (]) 04:14, 21 June 2015 (UTC) | |||
| * '''Include''' per V and LEAD, his alleged antisemitism is widely reported and appears in this article. The lead should summarize the body. It should naturally follow BLP in how it's worded, but BLP doesn't mean "no criticism of a living person". ] (]) 18:12, 21 June 2015 (UTC) | |||
| * '''Do not include''' any form of one-sided/biased form of this allegation. I believe the variant before revert and protection presented both sides and was rather neutral, in this form I would '''support inclusion'''. --] (]) 19:08, 21 June 2015 (UTC) | |||
| * '''Do not include''' As per ] and ]' observations. ] (]) 07:01, 22 June 2015 (UTC) | |||
| * '''include'''. Latuff is well known for this. ] (]) 10:14, 22 June 2015 (UTC) | |||
| ⚫ | |||
| * '''Include only if''' his repudiation of the charge is in the same sentence, i.e. 'Latuff's cartoons, which often use the analogy between the Holocaust and Palestinians, have been accused of/interpreted as/ anti-Semitism/antisemitic. Latuff has dismissed the charges as 'a strategy for discrediting' criticism of Israel.' I agree with ] It's a matter of ] and WP:NPOV. As No More Mr Nice Guy correctly states ] summarizes the article, and the article has a section on the accusations and his repudiation of them.] (]) 09:52, 24 June 2015 (UTC) | |||
| * '''include''' - the lead must summarize the article, per ]. This article has a well sourced and lengthy section about the controversy (in fact, it is the largest section of the article, and arguably the source or the subject's notability.) Per ], a line in the lead that says "his cartoons have been described as anti-Semitic , a charge he rejects" is required, per policy, and does not violate ], which states "If an allegation or incident is noteworthy, relevant, and well documented, it belongs in the article – even if it is negative and the subject dislikes all mention of it" . ] (]) 16:14, 25 June 2015 (UTC) | |||
| * '''Include'''. It is supported by sources. ] (]) 19:43, 25 June 2015 (UTC) | |||
| * '''include''' due to the high quality of the sources. ] (]) 13:49, 26 June 2015 (UTC) | |||
| * '''Include''' per Nishidani. In order to preserve neutrality, some balance should be struck in the lead, so leaving just a remark on anti-semitism would introduce undue bias, especially since many people stop reading after the lead. If you introduce a construction like that demonstrated by Nishidani, I think it would be fine. Then the reader is left to make the decision. Note: I came here via Legobot. -'''] ]''' 00:46, 28 June 2015 (UTC) | |||
| * '''Include'''. Many people share that belief and it should be stated as a quote from someone who claims it. ] (]) 05:26, 29 June 2015 (UTC) | |||
| * '''Include''', using both a short statement describing the allegations, and Latuff's rejection of the charges. This complies with ] and ]. ] (]) 16:11, 29 June 2015 (UTC) | |||
| * '''Include''': The lead should summarize the article. Israel-Palestine is a major theme of Latuff's work. With such a large section on antisemitism, it would be silly to not include it in the lead. The section should be summarized fairly, with not only the criticism and Latuff's response, but also, for instance, the quote by Joel Kotek in ''The Forward'', stating that his message is anti-Israel, rather than anti-Semitic. The current formulation in the lead, "Despite Latuff himself describes his work as controversial", should be eliminated. "Despite" is editorializing, "controversial" is weasel word, and anyway being controversial has nothing to do with being anti-Semitic. ] ]] 16:47, 2 July 2015 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Include in LEAD''' (part before TOC) but NOT in LEDE (first sentence). It's fine in the fourth sentence where it is now. ]<sup>]</sup> 😜 03:51, 4 July 2015 (UTC) | |||
| Before anyone revert my edit, he actually has many cartoons about this topic. | |||
| ===Threaded discussion=== | |||
| Per the fairly obvious consensus developing above, I am restoring the content, using Nishidani's proposed wording. The RFC remains open, and if consensus develops to the contrary we can remove then. ] (]) 16:43, 29 June 2015 (UTC) | |||
| :{{u|Averysoda}} I deleted the "controversial" line in the lede, because I felt it was redundant to the more specific allegations of antisemitism. However, we could merge that sentence into Latuff's response, saying "Latuff says his cartoons are controvercial but..." but that runs into ] perhaps. ] (]) 17:45, 29 June 2015 (UTC) | |||
| ::Per source Latuff himself recognized his work as controversial (it's not necessarily related to the accusations of antisemitism, which he denies).--] (]) 17:48, 29 June 2015 (UTC) | |||
| {{Archive bottom}} | |||
| https://twitter.com/latuffcartoons/status/842577690322501632 | |||
| == Implemented RfC on lead for anti-Semitism == | |||
| https://twitter.com/latuffcartoons/status/842577690322501632 | |||
| I have implemented RfC. Included opposing viewpoints and named some of them. Removed of "Despite his work being controversial" (being controversial has nothing to do with being anti-Semitic) - this was added by a sockpuppet ({{noping|Averysoda}}) anyway. ] ]] 11:14, 6 August 2015 (UTC) | |||
| etc <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 05:14, 10 March 2019 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| == "Arab-Brazilian" == | |||
| ⚫ | :That's ] or borders vandalism --] (]) 09:41, 10 March 2019 (UTC) | ||
| ::Now I’ve linked an academic article about this. It is not original research anymore. :-) ] (]) 18:52, 10 March 2019 (UTC) | |||
| :::this ref is worth nothing as your claim is not supported + its in a foreign language without translation. --] (]) 19:33, 10 March 2019 (UTC) | |||
| {{od}} Non english sources are allowed, but it is in bounds to ask for a translation of the relevant portion. ]. {{u|Azuizo}} Please provide a quote of the relevant section in both the original language and English. ] (]) 23:15, 10 March 2019 (UTC) | |||
| : I find it incredibly racist to say that Portuguese is a “foreign” language. ] (]) 20:57, 31 March 2019 (UTC) | |||
| As far as I know, one needs a self-identification to use the term "Arab-Brazilian". Latuff's grandfather was Lebanese, but that is not enough. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. ] ] ] 18:21, 20 December 2015 (UTC) | |||
| ::you do know this ''is'' the ''English'' wiki right? ] (]) 21:35, 31 March 2019 (UTC) | |||
| == A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion == | |||
| == External links modified == | |||
| The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: | |||
| * ]<!-- COMMONSBOT: discussion | 2019-07-02T00:51:29.067344 | UsElections Obama Latuff.png --> | |||
| Participate in the deletion discussion at the ]. —] (]) 00:51, 2 July 2019 (UTC) | |||
| == Stance on Russia-Ukraine war == | |||
| Hello fellow Wikipedians, | |||
| The article clearly lacks any mentions of pro-russian sentiment shared by the subject. | |||
| I have just added archive links to {{plural:3|one external link|3 external links}} on ]. Please take a moment to review . If necessary, add {{tlx|cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{tlx|nobots|deny{{=}}InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes: | |||
| Since 2014 he made several caricatures depicting Ukrainians in a dehumanizing way, | |||
| *Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070619194913/http://www.fractaldesignz.orcon.net.nz/images/latuff/Bush_is_celebrating_911_by_Latuff2.jpg to http://www.fractaldesignz.orcon.net.nz/images/latuff/Bush_is_celebrating_911_by_Latuff2.jpg | |||
| like this: | |||
| *Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070619194913/http://pal.or.kr/bbs/data/al_free/The_George_Bush_Barbershop_by_Latuff2.jpg to http://pal.or.kr/bbs/data/al_free/The_George_Bush_Barbershop_by_Latuff2.jpg | |||
| *Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070816023608/http://www.redress.btinternet.co.uk:80/ahamadeh2.htm to http://www.redress.btinternet.co.uk/ahamadeh2.htm | |||
| https://twitter.com/LatuffCartoons/status/1504505076290891778 | |||
| When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the ''checked'' parameter below to '''true''' to let others know. | |||
| https://ms-my.facebook.com/internationalriot/photos/ukraine-antimaidan-euromaidanfrom-latuff-brasil/671544492901910/ | |||
| I, as a Ukrainian, find it offensive | |||
| {{sourcecheck|checked=false}} | |||
| He oftentimes dubbs the Russian narrative about "all Ukrainians are nazis", examples: | |||
| Cheers.—]<small><sub style="margin-left:-14.9ex;color:green;font-family:Comic Sans MS">]:Online</sub></small> 18:34, 7 January 2016 (UTC) | |||
| https://www.irancartoon.com/site/media/zartists/75a4d29f877cd51c3aba2fb049b8611b/carlos-latuff-26.jpg | |||
| == Anti-Semitism section == | |||
| https://twitter.com/LatuffCartoons/status/1181257040913686528 | |||
| From what the subject posts in social media, his Iran-China-Russia bias is obvious, and it should be pointed out in the article. ] (]) 21:44, 10 October 2023 (UTC) | |||
| The image formatting in this section is, to put it quite bluntly, crap. There are four images supposed to be of work others have interpreted as antisemitic, all with crap captions if captioned at all. It's an overdose of images. There is no inclusion of his work in which he he lambasts nazis and tells them that the Palestinian cause doesn't need their help ] (]) 03:22, 25 March 2016 (UTC) | |||
| :Actually it's two images others have interpreted as antisemitic and two where he says people cry antisemitism too much. That seems balanced. ] (]) 03:31, 25 March 2016 (UTC) | |||
| ⚫ | :: |
||
| :I agree completely and it's a shame that it's not mentioned in the article. Do you know of any reliable sources so we can put it in? ] (]) 21:17, 17 March 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == Gallery Section == | |||
| ...needs a major revamp. There are many more images than on other political cartoonists' pages, and many of the captions are just straight descriptions rather than supplying context or background information.] (]) 21:35, 30 September 2016 (UTC) | |||
Latest revision as of 23:15, 3 August 2024
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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Markaberk.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 16:49, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
Excessive external links
We now have five links in the external links section. As per WP:EXT, this is excessive. See WP:ELMINOFFICIAL: Normally, only one official link is included. If the subject of the article has more than one official website, then more than one link may be appropriate, under a very few limited circumstances. However, Misplaced Pages does not provide a comprehensive web directory to every official website. Misplaced Pages does not attempt to document or provide links to every part of the subject's web presence or provide readers with a handy list of all social networking sites. Complete directories lead to clutter and to placing undue emphasis on what the subject says.
Can we choose which one or two to include and delete the others?
- A Google search yields this article as the first result at the twitter page as the second, so I guess it is the most popular official link. “WarKosign” 20:58, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
Cuckolding fetish
Before anyone revert my edit, he actually has many cartoons about this topic.
https://twitter.com/latuffcartoons/status/842577690322501632
https://twitter.com/latuffcartoons/status/842577690322501632
etc — Preceding unsigned comment added by Azuizo (talk • contribs) 05:14, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
- That's WP:OR or borders vandalism --Denniss (talk) 09:41, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
- Now I’ve linked an academic article about this. It is not original research anymore. :-) Azuizo (talk) 18:52, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
- this ref is worth nothing as your claim is not supported + its in a foreign language without translation. --Denniss (talk) 19:33, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
- Now I’ve linked an academic article about this. It is not original research anymore. :-) Azuizo (talk) 18:52, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
Non english sources are allowed, but it is in bounds to ask for a translation of the relevant portion. Misplaced Pages:Verifiability#Non-English_sources. Azuizo Please provide a quote of the relevant section in both the original language and English. ResultingConstant (talk) 23:15, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
- I find it incredibly racist to say that Portuguese is a “foreign” language. Azuizo (talk) 20:57, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
- you do know this is the English wiki right? ResultingConstant (talk) 21:35, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 00:51, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
Stance on Russia-Ukraine war
The article clearly lacks any mentions of pro-russian sentiment shared by the subject. Since 2014 he made several caricatures depicting Ukrainians in a dehumanizing way, like this:
https://twitter.com/LatuffCartoons/status/1504505076290891778 https://ms-my.facebook.com/internationalriot/photos/ukraine-antimaidan-euromaidanfrom-latuff-brasil/671544492901910/
I, as a Ukrainian, find it offensive
He oftentimes dubbs the Russian narrative about "all Ukrainians are nazis", examples:
https://www.irancartoon.com/site/media/zartists/75a4d29f877cd51c3aba2fb049b8611b/carlos-latuff-26.jpg https://twitter.com/LatuffCartoons/status/1181257040913686528
From what the subject posts in social media, his Iran-China-Russia bias is obvious, and it should be pointed out in the article. Choomaque (talk) 21:44, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
- I agree completely and it's a shame that it's not mentioned in the article. Do you know of any reliable sources so we can put it in? 84.148.208.43 (talk) 21:17, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
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