| Revision as of 12:38, 12 May 2023 editAintabli (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, New page reviewers, Rollbackers23,730 edits →Strongly suggest keeping a close eye on possible sabotage attempts← Previous edit |
Latest revision as of 09:15, 14 September 2024 edit undoKane 1371 (talk | contribs)48 edits →Persian was spoken in court in the Ottoman Empire?: ReplyTags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit Reply |
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== Potentially inaccurate information about Iranian tribes == |
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== Nonsense sources. == |
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Different tribes are named as Iranian tribes with no references. Please either cite a prominent resource or remove that part. |
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''Mehrjoo, Zohreh; Fattahi, Zohreh; Beheshtian, Maryam; Mohseni, Marzieh; Poustchi, Hossein; Ardalani, Fariba; Jalalvand, Khadijeh; Arzhangi, Sanaz; Mohammadi, Zahra; Khoshbakht, Shahrouz; Najafi, Farid'' |
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== Revising the section on the history of Western vs. Eastern Iranian peoples == |
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What's that nonsense sided iranian sources with full of propaganda about this so called heterogenicty of bmac Iranians with %3 Aryan elements lol :) ] (]) 14:44, 28 April 2022 (UTC) |
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I would suggest revising the sections on the history of Eastern and Western Iranian peoples. Firstly, the division into Eastern and Western is a linguistic one and not necessarily the best way to distinguish between different cultural groups. In fact, the section on Eastern Iranian peoples includes only Steppe-Iranian peoples who spoke languages that are categorised as Eastern but lived north or even west of the Western Iranians and are culturally very different from the Iranian peoples in the eastern part of the Iranian plateau. Moreover, Avestan is not an eastern Iranian language, but is so old that it preceded the division is west vs. east. Secondly, it is the people who lived in the eastern parts of ] who gave their name to this somewhat confusing category, but they are absent from this part of the article. Thirdly, I would suggest adding a section on the ] who actually lived in the eastern part of Greater Iran and are not yet covered in this article. ] (]) |
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You can not write UTC in the heterogeneity ok |
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== Persian was spoken in court in the Ottoman Empire? == |
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] (]) 19:35, 16 December 2022 (UTC) |
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Whats the source of this claim? Or is this another Persian propaganda? ] (]) 18:17, 1 August 2024 (UTC) |
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== Western Iranians and Eastern Iranians == |
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The difference between Western Iranians (the Medes and Persians) and Eastern Iranians or immigrants began when the Western Iranians converted to the religion of Zoroastrianism and called themselves Aryans, and then came to the iranian plateau. But the Eastern Iranians remained on the ancient Iranian religions. The Parthians, who were from the eastern Iranian tribes, when they formed an empire and came to the Iranian plateau, continued to follow ancient religions, but gradually settled in the cities under the influence of the western Iranian culture. Until during the Sassanid period, they followed the Zoroastrian religion and merged with the Western Iranians. ] (]) 16:22, 6 August 2022 (UTC) |
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== Requested move 28 September 2022 == |
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:''The following is a closed discussion of a ]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a ] after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. '' |
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| <small>'''{{smallcaps|result:}}'''</small><br />''']''' See below much stronger arguments in opposition to this article retitling. Thanks and kudos to editors for your input; everyone ]''!'' ''''']''''' , ] ] <small>04:46, 6 October 2022 (UTC)</small> |
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|text = It was proposed in this section that ] be ] to {{no redirect|Iranic peoples}}. |
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<small>'''{{smallcaps|result:}}'''</small><br />''']''' See below much stronger arguments in opposition to this article retitling. Thanks and kudos to editors for your input; everyone ]''!'' ''''']''''' , ] ] <small>04:46, 6 October 2022 (UTC)</small> |
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] → {{no redirect|Iranic peoples}} – <strike>The same as we differentiate ] from ] or ] and ] we should differentiate between ] (people of Iran) and ] (pan ethnic term). The current article is about 'Iranic peoples'. ] (]) 21:14, 28 September 2022 (UTC)</strike> '''<--- ] blocked ] of ]''' – 21:14, 28 September 2022 (UTC) |
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*'''Neutral''' <s>''Oppose''</s>. based on ]. Based on the Google Ngrams, "Iranian peoples" is far more common than "Iranic peoples". Compare this to "Germanic peoples" vs "German peoples", and "Turkic peoples" vs "Turkish peoples". ] (]) 21:43, 28 September 2022 (UTC) |
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*'''Oppose'''. "Iranic peoples" is not a commonly used term in the scholarly literature compared to "Iranian peoples". ] (]) 22:01, 28 September 2022 (UTC) |
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:<strike>* ], ] but ] is not the only ]. {{tq|'''Precision''' – The title unambiguously identifies the article's subject and distinguishes it from other subjects.}} ''Iranian people'' could also refer to Iranians, i. e. people of Iran. {{tq|'''Consistency''' – The title is consistent with the pattern of similar articles' titles.}} ] vs ], ] vs ], ] vs ], ] vs ] etc. --] (]) 08:44, 29 September 2022 (UTC)</strike> '''<--- ] blocked ] of ]''' |
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::*I am somewhat persuaded by your argument, but the Google Ngrams are pretty persuasive too. If the 2 terms were at least a little closer in usage I would support, but for now I will change to neutral and think about this some more. ] (]) 20:35, 29 September 2022 (UTC) |
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*'''Oppose'''. I think the title of this article should indeed use Iranic but evidence shows that its far from comparable with Iranian peoples. Altough Ngrams is not the only way for showing which name is more common. ] ] ] 21:28, 29 September 2022 (UTC) |
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* '''Support''' as per nominator and the explaination he gave below. With current title it's quite confusing so it needs to be moved to the precise title. ] <sup>(])</sup> 02:13, 4 October 2022 (UTC) |
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Using Iranic is strongly adviced. It's ethno-social language family, Trying to make the language family ethnicity is only an absurdity that Iranian propagandists brainwashed with paniranism will believe. |
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If someone seriously agree with using Iranian, then we should replace Finnic with "Finns" or we should call Scandinavians as Germans or maybe we should use "Turks" for entire Turkic community. |
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I have not been able to understand why some nationalist polices still tend to create a false nation, while even Iranic encyclopedias confirm what I am saying. |
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"In the following discussion of 'Iranian peoples,' the term 'Iranian' may be understood in two ways. It is, first of all, a linguistic classification, intended to designate any society which inherited or adopted, and transmitted, an Iranian language. |
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https://iranicaonline.org/articles/iran-v1-peoples-survey ] (]) 12:15, 4 October 2022 (UTC) |
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* '''Oppose''' Due to the vast difference there is in ]. --] (]) 14:10, 4 October 2022 (UTC) |
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::For comparison here, on Google scholar, "Iranic peoples" has been used in 57 publication since 2010 , while "Iranian peoples" has been used over 1,600 times . It's not even remotely close, and it would be a disservice to the reader to use this frankly comparatively barely used term as the primary one. ] (]) 00:54, 5 October 2022 (UTC) |
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* '''Support''' Iranic has almost as many citations as "iranian." The nominator has sufficient reason for proposing this change and WP:COMMON name favors both equally more or less.--] (]) 10:39, 5 October 2022 (UTC) |
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::"Iranic" has almost as many citations as "Iranian"? Could you please demonstrate that? Because the comment up above heavily contradicts you. --] (]) 13:54, 5 October 2022 (UTC) |
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<div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. <b style="color: #FF0000;">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div><!-- from ] --> |
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== Potentially inaccurate information about Iranian tribes == |
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Different tribes are named as Iranian tribes with no references. Please either cite a prominent resource or remove that part. |
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:Kindly read ]. What exactly is "another Persian propaganda"? |
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== Strongly suggest keeping a close eye on possible sabotage attempts == |
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:* ''"As the Ottoman Turks learned Persian, the language and the culture it carried seeped not only into their court and imperial institutions but also into their vernacular language and culture. The appropriation of Persian, both as a second language and as a language to be steeped together with Turkish, was encouraged notably by the sultans, the ruling class, and leading members of the mystical communities."'' -- Inan, Murat Umut (2019) "Imperial Ambitions, Mystical Aspirations: Persian Learning in the Ottoman World" in Green, Nile (ed.). The Persianate World: The Frontiers of a Eurasian Lingua Franca. University of California Press. pp. 88–89. |
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:* "''Persian served as a ‘minority’ prestige language of culture at the largely Turcophone Ottoman court."'' -- Baki Tezcan. (2012). "Ottoman Historical Writing" in José Rabasa (ed). '' The Oxford History of Historical Writing: Volume 3: 1400-1800 The Oxford History of Historical Writing: Volume 3: 1400-1800 ''. pp. 192–211 |
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: - ] (]) 00:39, 4 August 2024 (UTC) |
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:I dont know man, what are those Persian poems doing on topkapi Palace? |
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:Probably some more Persian propaganda ] (]) 09:15, 14 September 2024 (UTC) |
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== Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 September 2024 == |
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There is a possibility of incoming sabotage attempts. |
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Please keep a close eye on coming changes. ] (]) 10:50, 12 May 2023 (UTC) |
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{{Edit extended-protected|Iranian peoples|answered=yes}} |
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:This verges on casting ]. You are supposed to not restore your edit until you build a consensus. ] (]) 12:38, 12 May 2023 (UTC) |
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Fix citation 2 and add citation to total population. ] (]) 02:33, 7 September 2024 (UTC) |
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:] '''Not done:''' it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a ] and provide a ] if appropriate.<!-- Template:EEp --> ] (]) 12:04, 7 September 2024 (UTC) |
Different tribes are named as Iranian tribes with no references. Please either cite a prominent resource or remove that part.
I would suggest revising the sections on the history of Eastern and Western Iranian peoples. Firstly, the division into Eastern and Western is a linguistic one and not necessarily the best way to distinguish between different cultural groups. In fact, the section on Eastern Iranian peoples includes only Steppe-Iranian peoples who spoke languages that are categorised as Eastern but lived north or even west of the Western Iranians and are culturally very different from the Iranian peoples in the eastern part of the Iranian plateau. Moreover, Avestan is not an eastern Iranian language, but is so old that it preceded the division is west vs. east. Secondly, it is the people who lived in the eastern parts of Greater Iran who gave their name to this somewhat confusing category, but they are absent from this part of the article. Thirdly, I would suggest adding a section on the Avestan people who actually lived in the eastern part of Greater Iran and are not yet covered in this article. Kjansen86 (talk)
.svg){kind=small}
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Bunnypranav (talk) 12:04, 7 September 2024 (UTC)