Talk:James Blake Miller: Difference between revisions

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			{{DYK talk\|18 November\|2007\|entry=...that ''']''', made famous in a 2004 photograph during the ] as the "]", suffered ] and was ] exactly one year after his picture made worldwide news?}}
	{{WPBiography
			{{WikiProject banner shell\|blp=yes\|class=B\|listas=Miller, James Blake\|
	\|living=yes
			{{WikiProject Biography\|military-work-group=y\|military-priority=Low}}
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			{{WikiProject Military history\|Biography=y\|US=y\|B1=yes\|B2=yes\|B3=yes\|B4=yes\|B5=yes\|class=B}}
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			{{WikiProject United States\|importance=Low\|KY=yes\|KY-importance=Low}}
	\|military-work-group=yes
	\|listas=Miller, James Blake
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	{{WPMILHIST\|Biography=yes\|US=yes\|B1=yes\|B2=yes\|B3=yes
			==Untitled==
	\|B4=yes\|B5=yes\|class=B}}
	{{dyktalk\|November 18\|2007\|small=no}}
	It'd be great to get more Marines and historians involved in this piece. I'm a newbie to Wiki myself. ] 13:57, 29 April 2007 (UTC)		It'd be great to get more Marines and historians involved in this piece. I'm a newbie to Wiki myself. ] 13:57, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

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	== Picture ==		== Picture ==
	If the image is really as iconic as is described, it can be included as fair use ] ] 14:24, 18 November 2007 (UTC)		If the image is really as iconic as is described, it can be included as fair use ] ] 14:24, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

	:Agreed. It's an irrepeatable historic event. I will either restore the old image or find a new one (The only caveat ... it can't be used in the infobox). ] (]) 15:01, 18 November 2007 (UTC)		:Agreed. It's an irrepeatable historic event. I will either restore the old image or find a new one (The only caveat ... it can't be used in the infobox). ] (]) 15:01, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
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	===placement===		===placement===
	Hey, I just realized I'd moved something that'd been moved before I moved it again --I was just curious: do we want the photo closer to the infobox, or categorized under the section where it is mentioned? I can see how the previous version tried both; I think the only problem I saw was that placement on the left seemed to make the headers look a bit bad; if you want to move it back up to its previous position, I'd be fine with it, but can we keep the right-side placement? --] (]) 18:01, 19 November 2007 (UTC)		Hey, I just realized I'd moved something that'd been moved before I moved it again --I was just curious: do we want the photo closer to the infobox, or categorized under the section where it is mentioned? I can see how the previous version tried both; I think the only problem I saw was that placement on the left seemed to make the headers look a bit bad; if you want to move it back up to its previous position, I'd be fine with it, but can we keep the right-side placement? --] (]) 18:01, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
	:Thing is the fair use guidelines require it to be with the text discussing it, ie. not in the infobox. Right sided looks good though, I like it as it is now. And yes, the old placement made the headings look really bad. ] ] 19:04, 19 November 2007 (UTC)		:Thing is the fair use guidelines require it to be with the text discussing it, ie. not in the infobox. Right sided looks good though, I like it as it is now. And yes, the old placement made the headings look really bad. ] ] 19:04, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

	:You can do left-side placement without screwing up the heds if you put it at the end of the previous section (I do that all the time). I prefer alternating art placement because studies have shown it improves readability since it follows the sweep of the eye across the page.<p>For now, since the infobox is skimpy and lacks art, it's OK. But if we get his PD official portrait, we should consider moving the image back to the left. ] (]) 05:38, 26 November 2007 (UTC)		:You can do left-side placement without screwing up the heds if you put it at the end of the previous section (I do that all the time). I prefer alternating art placement because studies have shown it improves readability since it follows the sweep of the eye across the page.<p>For now, since the infobox is skimpy and lacks art, it's OK. But if we get his PD official portrait, we should consider moving the image back to the left. ] (]) 05:38, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
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	==Advertising cat==		==Advertising cat==
	I'm going to remove the advertising cat. The wiki editor claims that it's essentially a Marlboro ad, but I'm not sure I see it. Is there any evidence that Marlboro paid for the use of his image, or that Miller even smokes Marlboros? It seems likely that his image was used at some point as US propaganda, but I'm not sure whether Marlboro had anything to do it.] (]) 01:32, 22 November 2007 (UTC)		I'm going to remove the advertising cat. The wiki editor claims that it's essentially a Marlboro ad, but I'm not sure I see it. Is there any evidence that Marlboro paid for the use of his image, or that Miller even smokes Marlboros? It seems likely that his image was used at some point as US propaganda, but I'm not sure whether Marlboro had anything to do it.] (]) 01:32, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

			== Requested move ==
			<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"><!-- Template:polltop -->
			:''The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. ''

			'''No consensus''' to move. ] (]) 03:18, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

			] → {{no redirect\|1=Marlboro Marine}} – <small>'''Relisted'''. ] (]) 07:00, 15 November 2011 (UTC)</small>
			It appears to me that LCpl. Miller is only notable due to this image, not personally for his military record or his somewhat sad post-conflict civilian life, and I'm a bit embarrassed for him to have it detailed here. Very borderline BLP material considering his limited notability. On the other hand, the photograph "Marlboro Marine" is highly notable and ought to be the real subject of the article, with biographical information about Miller trimmed to what is absolutely necessary. ] \| ] 07:53, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

			*'''Oppose''' – the second ref in particular is enough to establish notability as a person. ] (]) 00:57, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
			:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.''</div><!-- Template:pollbottom -->

			== Copyright ==

			Use of copyrighted material, even if cited, is against the law and against Misplaced Pages policy. This BLP was rife with this. ] (]) 13:43, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 15:29, 24 September 2024

A fact from James Blake Miller appeared on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the Did you know column on 18 November 2007. The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that James Blake Miller, made famous in a 2004 photograph during the Second Battle of Fallujah as the "Marlboro Marine", suffered post-traumatic stress disorder and was discharged exactly one year after his picture made worldwide news?

A record of the entry may be seen at Misplaced Pages:Recent additions/2007/November.

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Untitled

It'd be great to get more Marines and historians involved in this piece. I'm a newbie to Wiki myself. Bluemarine 13:57, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

LA Times just did a massive follow up

Published in two parts by the photographer who made him famous, it follows up what happened to Miller after the photo and once he returned to the States. Part 1, Part 2. Tons of information to be used. --Bobak 21:29, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

I've expanded the article from those sources. --Bobak 00:08, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Picture

If the image is really as iconic as is described, it can be included as fair use Modest Genius 14:24, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. It's an irrepeatable historic event. I will either restore the old image or find a new one (The only caveat ... it can't be used in the infobox). Daniel Case (talk) 15:01, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Did it ... I happened to have a perfect low-res one in my folders, so I just renamed it appropriately. Please do not move this to the infobox; per WP:FUC it needs to be where it is, next to where it's discussed. Daniel Case (talk) 15:20, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

There should be a PD USMC portrait of Miller if someone wants to put something in the infobox. Daniel Case (talk) 15:46, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

placement

Hey, I just realized I'd moved something that'd been moved before I moved it again --I was just curious: do we want the photo closer to the infobox, or categorized under the section where it is mentioned? I can see how the previous version tried both; I think the only problem I saw was that placement on the left seemed to make the headers look a bit bad; if you want to move it back up to its previous position, I'd be fine with it, but can we keep the right-side placement? --Bobak (talk) 18:01, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Thing is the fair use guidelines require it to be with the text discussing it, ie. not in the infobox. Right sided looks good though, I like it as it is now. And yes, the old placement made the headings look really bad. Modest Genius 19:04, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

You can do left-side placement without screwing up the heds if you put it at the end of the previous section (I do that all the time). I prefer alternating art placement because studies have shown it improves readability since it follows the sweep of the eye across the page.

For now, since the infobox is skimpy and lacks art, it's OK. But if we get his PD official portrait, we should consider moving the image back to the left. Daniel Case (talk) 05:38, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Advertising cat

I'm going to remove the advertising cat. The wiki editor claims that it's essentially a Marlboro ad, but I'm not sure I see it. Is there any evidence that Marlboro paid for the use of his image, or that Miller even smokes Marlboros? It seems likely that his image was used at some point as US propaganda, but I'm not sure whether Marlboro had anything to do it.Athene cunicularia (talk) 01:32, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move. Vegaswikian (talk) 03:18, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

James Blake Miller → Marlboro Marine – Relisted. Vegaswikian (talk) 07:00, 15 November 2011 (UTC) It appears to me that LCpl. Miller is only notable due to this image, not personally for his military record or his somewhat sad post-conflict civilian life, and I'm a bit embarrassed for him to have it detailed here. Very borderline BLP material considering his limited notability. On the other hand, the photograph "Marlboro Marine" is highly notable and ought to be the real subject of the article, with biographical information about Miller trimmed to what is absolutely necessary. Dhartung | Talk 07:53, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Oppose – the second ref in particular is enough to establish notability as a person. Dicklyon (talk) 00:57, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Copyright

Use of copyrighted material, even if cited, is against the law and against Misplaced Pages policy. This BLP was rife with this. Collect (talk) 13:43, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

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