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{{WikiProject Taiwan|class=B|importance=Top}} |
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==Parties' cultural identifications== |
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When saying that the election of the DPP is an important step in localization, it helps to point out that this is because the KMT was a Chinese party (to what extent is still is can be debated, but its origins are certainly Chinese and many of its members consider themselves Chinese) while the DPP is a Taiwanese party. ] (]) 06:02, 4 August 2008 (UTC) |
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:Again, this is very misleading. Most of the KMT members, their elected officials, and their voters are not mainlanders, who only make up a small proportion of the population of Taiwan. The party itself has undergone many reforms to re-invent itself as a native Taiwanese party. In addition, the presidential election in 2000 is rather late to be labeled a turning point in localization. First of all, the 2000 election was not the first sweeping election that the DPP captured. They did that in the 1990s and early 2000s when they defeated the KMT in legislative, county and many other local elections. The cultural scene has already made huge transformations way before the 2000 election. It was not an important step in localization in the cultural sense. ] (]) 06:56, 4 August 2008 (UTC) |
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==KMT's view of localization== |
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"While both major political parties, the KMT and the DPP, are generally supportive of localisation, the DPP made localisation a key plank in its political platform". How has the the KMT been "generally supportive of localisation"? ] (]) 06:02, 4 August 2008 (UTC) |
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:The main issue here is the time frame. The KMT has been pro-localization since the 1980s, or even earlier when the KMT gave up retaking the mainland and when Chiang Ching-kuo stated that he was also a "Taiwanese" and began promoting native Taiwanese people to high party ranks, including Lee Teng-hui, Lin Yang-kang, and a whole bunch of others. It would be incredibly misleading to simply label the KMT as "pro-China" or anti-localization without giving a time frame, especially when most of the KMT members and their constituents are native Taiwanese and many of whom hold high ranks of the KMT hierarchy. I believe the sentence itself is rather extraneous and it does not clearly state the fact that the issue of localization and which party is "more native" has been used mainly for political opponents to smear each other. ] (]) 06:48, 4 August 2008 (UTC) |
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:: I inserted the sentence to balance out the previous content which seemed to simplistically label the KMT as pro-China and anti-localisation, and the DPP as the sole and unalloyed champion of localisation. --] (]) 02:47, 5 August 2008 (UTC) |
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:: The timeline needs to be clarified then. The fact that it was mainly KMT and other pan-blue parties that opposed renaming attempts, putting "Taiwan" on passports, and other localization measures should not be ignored. |
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:: I question Blueshirts's timeline. Chiang Ching-kuo may have stated he was also Taiwanese, but what evidence is there that his sentiments were shared by the rest of the party. Lee Teng-hui is a particularly bad example of KMT embracing localization as he was expelled from the party. If I remember correctly, wasn't Ma's position during the campaign that he didn't really care one way or the other about localization issues like renaming organizations? That hardly sounds like "generally supporting". ] (]) 14:33, 5 August 2008 (UTC) |
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:::Funny, I finished writing the above and went to read the Taipei Times. Look what I found |
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::::<i>Asked for comment, Chinese Nationalist Party (KMT) Legislator Kuo Su-chun (郭素春) said it was “reasonable” for the company to change its name back now that the KMT was in power. |
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::::She said the legislature never approved the postal service’s proposal to change its name to Taiwan Post, adding that as a result “Taiwan Post never existed.” |
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</blockquote></i> |
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:::Anyone want to guess which party's representatives prevented the name change from being approved by the legislature? I doubt it was the DPP. |
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::::<i>Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) Legislator Yeh Yi-ching (葉宜津) told a press conference that “few people outside Taiwan know where letters with the Chunghwa Post postmark are from.” |
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::::She said the company should at least keep “Taiwan” on the postmark, as it would allow more people abroad to know that Taiwan is a sovereign state. |
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::::DPP caucus whip Chang Hwa-kuan (張花冠) said it was ridiculous for “the post company to spend NT$20 million to diminish ‘Taiwan’ and reinstate ‘Chunghwa.’”</i> |
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::::] (]) 14:47, 5 August 2008 (UTC) |
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:::::Look, renaming is NOT about localization anymore. It's identity politics and most people in Taiwan are frankly tired of getting played by the DPP with this kind of crap, and that's one chief reason they voted overwhelmingly for the KMT in both the presidential and legislative elections. Chunghwa Post was changed back to its name because that's the name for the past fifty years, and plus many people and most importantly the union were against it, and it was also an "illegal" change by Chen, much like the renaming of the CKS memorial hall. It has nothing to do "localization", because frankly, Taiwan has been "localized" enough. ] (]) 17:22, 5 August 2008 (UTC) |
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:::::: Agree with Blueshirts. Tearing your national institutions apart with a crowbar is ''not'' "localisation". --] (]) 23:33, 6 August 2008 (UTC) |
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==School curricula changes== |
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"changing school curricula to focus more on Taiwan's own history to the exclusion of China". So no Chinese history is being taught at all? They aren't even learning about it as a foreign history? They don't learn anything about the Chinese Civil War or how the KMT ended up in Taiwan? China isn't being "excluded", it is simply no longer the focus. ] (]) 06:02, 4 August 2008 (UTC) |
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The statement of Sun Yat Sen is being treated proves that China isn't being "excluded". ] (]) 06:04, 4 August 2008 (UTC) |
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: Please read the sentence again. It does not say that the curriculum is to the exclusion of China; it says the curriculum focuses on Taiwan's own history ''to the exclusion of China'', as opposed to treating Taiwan's history as part of Chinese history, as was the norm previously. --] (]) 02:45, 5 August 2008 (UTC) |
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:: Previously the norm was to not pay attention to Taiwanese history at all. |
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:: Perhaps better wording would be "revising textbooks and changing school curricula to focus more on Taiwan's separate history rather than treating Taiwan's history only as it related to China."] (]) 14:26, 5 August 2008 (UTC) |
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::: That's simplistic and sensationalistic. The curriculum changes were more about excluding China than focussing on Taiwan. --] (]) 23:34, 6 August 2008 (UTC) |
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==Inconguities== |
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"These policies sometimes led to incongruities such as the "Father of the Country" ] being treated as a "foreign" (Chinese) historical figure." That statement isn't very encyclopedic. ] (]) 06:02, 4 August 2008 (UTC) |
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:I didn't add this sentence, but stuff like this happened. I remember when the minister of justice (DPP) was asked by reporters whether he considered ], the Chinese god of justice he was dressing up for an event, a "foreigner". In addition, some textbooks began referring to historical China in history books as "China" rather than "our country" as customary. ] (]) 06:59, 4 August 2008 (UTC) |
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:: Why isn't it encyclopaedic? It is an example of how the school curriculum changed, and adds content to what is otherwise a generalising statement. --] (]) 02:44, 5 August 2008 (UTC) |
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::: I reworded it so make it more neutral as to whether Sun was foreign or the father of the country. |
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==on the incongruities theme== |
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How can this be: "Mobile penetration rate stands at just over 100%" ? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 02:03, 19 February 2012 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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== Taiwanese Cuisine == |
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The section on Taiwanese cuisine talks almost entirely about the foreign foods from places like China and Japan. Bubble Tea, which originated in Taiwan, gets a mention, but hardly anything else that comes from Taiwan. I don't have sources to use, but it would seem that an article about the cuisine of a nation of 23 million people, 90% of whom come from families that have been there for hundreds of years, and another portion being aboriginies, would have some dishes that were developed in the country. Some should be listed, even if they are simply changes to dishes that originated elsewhere (like the American hot dog started as a German food, but achieved its present form in America and can thus be called an American invention). ] (]) 06:10, 4 August 2008 (UTC) |
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-_- Oh come on Readin. Are you seriously telling me that Taiwanese cuisine is not a branch of Chinese cuisine? It's comprehensively based on Fujian cuisine and developed with influence from all the other cuisine styles which have become widespread in Taiwan since 1945. |
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Just because the development of the regional cuisine has been influenced by decidedly foreign cultures does not make it necessarily separate. Shanghainese cuisine is hugely influenced by continental (European) and Russian cuisine. Does that make it non-Chinese? I doubt it. Ditto for Hong Kong cuisine. |
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Aboriginal cuisine is, of course, different from Chinese cuisine. But widespread is its influence in mainstream Taiwanese cuisine? I would say - very little. It should be mentioned but treated separately from mainstream Taiwanese cuisine. |
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I keep saying this, but Taiwan is not ''America''. Taiwanese is not to Chinese what American is to German/Anglo Saxons/French. The base assumptions are just too far apart for the analogy to work properly. --] (]) 02:43, 5 August 2008 (UTC) |
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:Actually it is exactly that. If you call American cuisine different from European, or deny that it is a mixture of European cuisines, then it is exactly the same with Taiwanese cuisine. Indeed, it has Chinese, Japanese and even Korean influences, but even it's own dishes from the aborigines. Or did you ever eat bat in China? ] 14:19, 17 November 2008 (UTC) <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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==Culture of Taiwan and views== |
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The book: Wachman, Alan. ''Taiwan: National Identity and Democratization''. ], 1994. {{ISBN|1563243989}}, 9781563243981. Pages 122-123. |
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* ... talks about how some groups view Taiwanese culture as a part of Chinese culture, and some don't |
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] (]) 03:54, 29 November 2011 (UTC) |
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== External links modified == |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080731072739/http://www.7-eleven.com/AboutUs/InternationalLicensing/tabid/115/Default.aspx to http://www.7-eleven.com/AboutUs/InternationalLicensing/tabid/115/Default.aspx |
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Cheers.—] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">(])</span> 12:02, 3 December 2016 (UTC) |
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== External links modified == |
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Cheers.—] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">(])</span> 12:31, 15 August 2017 (UTC) |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20061128153701/http://ecommerce.taipeitimes.com/yearbook2004/P351.htm to http://ecommerce.taipeitimes.com/yearbook2004/P351.htm |
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Cheers.—] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">(])</span> 07:45, 26 December 2017 (UTC) |
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