| Revision as of 17:21, 2 July 2020 editArgento Surfer (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users26,602 edits →Wrong Date: re← Previous edit |
Latest revision as of 10:05, 5 October 2024 edit undoDukeOfDelTaco (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users19,658 edits →top |
| (36 intermediate revisions by 24 users not shown) |
| Line 1: |
Line 1: |
|
{{User:MiszaBot/config |
|
|
| algo=old(90d) |
|
|
| archive=Talk:V for Vendetta (film)/Archive %(counter)d |
|
|
| counter=7 |
|
|
| maxarchivesize=75K |
|
|
| archiveheader={{Automatic archive navigator}} |
|
|
| minthreadsleft=5 |
|
|
| minthreadstoarchive=2 |
|
|
}} |
|
|
{{Talk header}} |
|
{{Talk header}} |
|
{{Article history |
|
{{Article history |
| Line 55: |
Line 46: |
|
|topic=film |
|
|topic=film |
|
}} |
|
}} |
|
|
{{WikiProject banner shell|collapsed=yes|class=GA|1= |
|
{{WikiProjectBannerShell|1= |
|
|
{{WikiProject Film|British-task-force=yes|class=GA|American-task-force=yes|Australian-task-force=yes|German-task-force=yes|Comic-book-task-force=yes|core=yes}} |
|
{{WikiProject Film|British-task-force=yes|American-task-force=yes|Australian-task-force=yes|German-task-force=yes|Comic-book-task-force=yes|core=yes}} |
|
{{WikiProject LGBT studies| class=GA}} |
|
{{WikiProject LGBT studies}} |
|
{{WikiProject Comics|British-work-group=yes|class=GA|importance=Mid|dc=yes|film=yes|portal1-name=Comics|portal1-link=Featured article/16}} |
|
{{WikiProject Comics|British-work-group=yes|importance=Mid|dc=yes|film=yes|portal1-name=Comics|portal1-link=Featured article/16}} |
|
{{WikiProject London|class=GA|importance=low}} |
|
{{WikiProject London|importance=low}} |
|
{{WikiProject Politics|class=GA|importance=low}} |
|
{{WikiProject Politics|importance=low|American=yes|American-importance=low}} |
|
{{WikiProject Science fiction|class=GA|importance=}} |
|
{{WikiProject Science Fiction|importance=Low}} |
|
|
{{WikiProject United States|importance=Low|USfilm=yes}} |
|
|
{{WikiProject United Kingdom|importance=Low}} |
|
|
{{WikiProject Germany|importance=Low}} |
|
|
{{WikiProject Anarchism }} |
|
|
}} |
|
|
{{Press |
|
|
| subject = article |
|
|
| author = Ethan Sacks |
|
|
| title = Creators of dystopian sci-fi are as shocked by the events of 2020 as you are |
|
|
| org = ] |
|
|
| url = https://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/movies/creators-dystopian-sci-fi-are-shocked-events-2020-you-are-n1245213 |
|
|
| date = {{date|31 October 2020}} |
|
|
| quote = |
|
|
| archiveurl = |
|
|
| archivedate = |
|
|
| accessdate = |
|
|
}} |
|
|
{{To do|small=yes}} |
|
|
{{User:MiszaBot/config |
|
|
| algo=old(90d) |
|
|
| archive=Talk:V for Vendetta (film)/Archive %(counter)d |
|
|
| counter=7 |
|
|
| maxarchivesize=75K |
|
|
| archiveheader={{Automatic archive navigator}} |
|
|
| minthreadsleft=5 |
|
|
| minthreadstoarchive=2 |
|
}} |
|
}} |
|
{{annual readership|scale=log}} |
|
{{annual readership|scale=log}} |
|
|
|
|
{{To do|small=yes}} |
|
|
|
{{Archives|bot=Lowercase sigmabot III|age=90}} |
|
|
|
|
|
==References to use== |
|
==References to use== |
| Line 80: |
Line 98: |
|
{{reflist}} |
|
{{reflist}} |
|
|
|
|
|
== Wrong Date == |
|
== Alternative Interpretation == |
|
|
|
|
The article summary states that V for Vendetta is set in 2020. changed it recently and then it's gone back and forth. While the virus in the film started in 2020, the film was set in 2032. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </small> |
|
|
:Can you provide any information to support your claim, such as when in the film it's stated that the virus starts in 2020? Thanks! ] (]) 20:27, 11 June 2020 (UTC) |
|
|
::Checking the edit history, 2032 was the status quo prior to January 2020. I've restored it and added a source. ] (]) 20:28, 11 June 2020 (UTC) |
|
|
:::Beat me to it; I concur with your change. Thanks! ] (]) 20:30, 11 June 2020 (UTC) |
|
|
::::I've reverted back to 2020, all reliable sources I could find mention "set in London 2020" and only Misplaced Pages mirrors and self-published content (possibly citing Misplaced Pages) mention 2032. 2032 was inserted in by what appears to be a date vandal. – ''']''' ] 13:35, 14 June 2020 (UTC) |
|
|
:::::Rewatching the movie tonight, 2032 seems to match better but there isn't anything specific to that date that I've found yet. The flashbacks to the story from the detention center states that in 2015 Valerie met Ruth and then they were both taken by the government after 3 years together. This would put the very beginning of the actual V story arc at 2018. Meanwhile it would seem that Norsefire's rise to power and the situation in the movie would have taken longer to happen due to things like inspector Finch stating he was a party member for 27 years. Additionally, in the scene where Finch is reviewing Prothere's file he states he was one of the richest men in the country before becoming the Voice of London and the info on his screen states that Prothero bought stock in Viadoxic in 2020 and at some point later has been working for the BTN for four years. This would imply that the absolute earliest year the movie could be set in was 2024 (36:51 in the movie). The only other timestamped thing I found is another screen grab from Finch's computer showing that Father Lilliman's position has been Bishop from 2020-present. I think it is safe to definitively say the movie is not set in 2020. While 2032 is a feasible setting, I am yet to find anything that specifies that exact year but it for sure isn't 2020. ] (]) 04:24, 16 June 2020 (UTC) |
|
|
::::::Based on the discussion below it appears that the year has been definitively locked down to 2027-2028. Does anyone else have any thoughts on it before making the change? ] (]) 20:23, 21 June 2020 (UTC) |
|
|
:::::::If people don't want to cite IMDB that's fine but the rogerebert.com article is directly contradicted in the film. For a page about a movie, said movie should be the ultimate primary source, especially over a movie critic's article. Screenshots easily prove 2027/2028 as the setting so what is the consensus on the best way to cite that?] (]) 22:34, 28 June 2020 (UTC) |
|
|
::::::::Does anyone have any inputs on either citing IMDB or just considering actual dates visible on screen during the film to be a primary source? If no on else chimes in it would seem there is consensus here. It simply can't be 2020 since it is directly contradicted by the film itself. ] (]) 01:10, 1 July 2020 (UTC) |
|
|
:::::::::I wouldn't support using IMDb per ], and given that we're even having this conversation, I'd prefer a source other than "dates visible on screen" only because sometimes dates shown on screens in films aren't as thoroughly vetted for accuracy as they should be. ] (]) 02:04, 1 July 2020 (UTC) |
|
|
::::::::::Yeah, it's not ideal but the dates on the screens are all consistent and point to the same answer. The bottom line is this is a page about a movie and the movie itself presents the answer to this question. A single source of a movie reviewer claiming a date that directly contradicts hard facts from within the movie shouldn't count as the "official" answer simply because rogerebert.com is arbitrarily considered "more academic" than the primary source itself. The desire to use secondary sources shouldn't extend to arbitrary sources (Roger Ebert had nothing to do with the production of the film nor does he cite any sources for his claim of 2020) that directly contradict the primary source. ] (]) 03:59, 2 July 2020 (UTC) |
|
|
:It's not just Rodger Ebert. See also , , and . These are all from 2006. Note, the did mention being set in 2020 once in a "differences from the graphic novel" section. ] (]) 13:30, 2 July 2020 (UTC) |
|
|
::It's still directly contradicted by the primary source. Other than the filmmakers chiming in one way or another I don't see how it can be reconciled that they are not in line with what is shown in the film. Would the plot section get changed to say that Evey dies at the end simply because a reputable source claims it and then it is repeated? Maybe "set in the 2020s" is the best way to compromise between both since it matches both the movie and the articles.] (]) 15:58, 2 July 2020 (UTC) |
|
|
:::¯\_(ツ)_/¯ The year isn't significant enough to be obvious in the film, so I don't see a need to put the year in the summary. I think the current version is fine. ] (]) 17:21, 2 July 2020 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
== Semi-protected edit request on 14 June 2020 == |
|
|
|
|
|
{{edit semi-protected|V for Vendetta (film)|answered=yes}} |
|
|
This film takes place in 2020 (not in 2032 as a user changed it to say on June 9th). ] (]) 12:30, 14 June 2020 (UTC) |
|
|
:] '''Done'''<!-- Template:ESp --> – ''']''' ] 13:31, 14 June 2020 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
== Semi-protected edit request on 15 June 2020 == |
|
|
|
|
|
{{edit semi-protected|V for Vendetta (film)|answered=yes}} |
|
|
Change from:<br> |
|
|
In 2020, the world is in turmoil and warfare<br> |
|
|
to:<br> |
|
|
In 2027, the world is in turmoil and warfare |
|
|
|
|
|
That the Plot section of the Wiki article be updated to '''not reflect''' that the film is set in 2020. The current reference being used to state that the film is set in 2020 is from the article ''''Dystopia' with a capital V'''<ref>{{cite web |last1=Ebert |first1=Roger |title=V for Vendetta movie review & film summary |url=https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/v-for-vendetta-2006 |website=RogerEbert.com |accessdate=15 June 2020 |date=March 16, 2006 |url-status=live}}</ref> which is not a referenced piece by Roger Ebert, but only an opinion and review of the film, and doesn't accurately reflect details that are apparent in the film. |
|
|
The first example of this can be seen at 16 minutes and 14 seconds into the film. There is an image of a computer record being accessed by Inspector Finch, of Evey Hammond, which states |
|
|
<pre> |
|
|
Jan 2021, JRP Wycombe Unit 789 |
|
|
Workplacement by Juvenile Workforce Prog. |
|
|
JORDAN TOWER TELEVISION CENTRE |
|
|
Employed as a Personal Assistant |
|
|
</pre> |
|
|
|
|
|
This record specifically refers to when Evey had been put in workplacement to work with Gordon Deitrich, which has occurred before her introduction in the film. |
|
|
|
|
|
Also, as per a response to the question "What year was this movie set in?" in the FAQ on IMDB <ref>{{cite web |title=V for Vendetta (2005) - Frequently Asked Questions - IMDb |url=https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0434409/faq?ref_=tt_faq_2#fq0025684 |website=IMDb: Ratings, Reviews, and Where to Watch the Best Movies & TV Shows |accessdate=15 June 2020}}</ref> |
|
|
<blockquote>2027 and 2028. About 1:30 into the film, the news anchor mentions the St. Mary's terrorist attacks "14 years ago." In the following scene, the detectives discuss two covert intelligence agents who suspiciously died "the day after" those attacks, and the computer screen reads their deceased dates as 06.05.14 (May 6th, 2014). So the film ostensibly is set from November 5th, 2027 to November 5th, 2028. |
|
|
</blockquote> |
|
|
Please see about updating this, as having the article refer to the year 2020 will only mean that people will try and use this for Memes and jokes that appear to make it look like V for Vendetta is real and relates to the worlds current situation. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I read somewhere that V might have actually been Valerie (the 'V' being significant), and that rather than avenging her, he was seeking revenge for what they had done to her in order to cure her "disorder": a partial change to her sex and/or gender that had unexpected repercussions. I don't know how credible this interpretation is, but it made sense to me. Unfortunately I can find no reference to it now. Anyone come across it before? ] (]) 15:46, 8 November 2022 (UTC) |
|
{{Reflist}} ] (]) 07:31, 15 June 2020 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
:Yes, this subtext is a valid interpretation of the story, particularly considering Lana and Lily Wachowski are both trans women. According to this alternate interpretation, Valerie was imprisoned at Larkhill for being a lesbian, and experimented on as a result. It is implied that these experiments may have included chemical castration and forced sex reassignment, among others. During this period she left notes in her cell. Eventually, Valerie forgot her past self and began to identify as V. V found their own notes and, assuming they had been written by someone else, was inspired to escape and destroy Larkhill. |
|
::A review of the scenes referenced from IMDB shows that it is correct. The movie is clearly set in 2027/2028. I agree that this is the final answer and the article should be updated. ] (]) 20:33, 17 June 2020 (UTC) |
|
|
|
:There is significant subtext in the fil to support this interpretation, but it is never explicitly stated as far as I know. |
|
:::] '''Not done:''' The page's protection level has changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to ]. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details.<!-- Template:ESp --> —<span style="color:#808080">]</span><sup><span style="color:#008080">]</span></sup> 14:43, 18 June 2020 (UTC) |
|
|
|
:It would be nice to see this included in the article, but I cannot currently search for references to support this claim. If you wish to, I would recommend looking into interviews with the Wachowskis'. ] (]) 06:53, 30 November 2022 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
:: Thanks for the details. I looked again and still came up short. It would be nice to include a mention of this on the page, here, but without a "reliable source" then it may get pulled down. I will watch that interview but I don't recall any statements from him to that effect. ] (]) 10:57, 30 November 2022 (UTC) |
|
== Semi-protected edit request on 15 June 2020 == |
|
|
|
:::This interpretation is a stretch, and there is no implication that the experiments included sex reassignments - considering the views of the people doing the experiments, that's the ''opposite'' of what they were going for. ] (]) 13:50, 30 November 2022 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
== 2005 or 2006 film? == |
|
{{edit semi-protected|V for Vendetta (film)|answered=yes}} |
|
|
under plot please change "In 2020" to "In 2032". The source for the year saying its 2020 is not reliable if you go to all the past versions before June 14th of this year the year is 2032, I can't believe you let someone edit it without checking to see if that source is legit. ] (]) 07:59, 15 June 2020 (UTC) |
|
|
:] '''Question:'''<!-- Template:ESp --> Another request above requests the year be changed to 2027 or 2028 - Is there a definitive answer here? --] <sup>(])</sup> 09:58, 15 June 2020 (UTC) |
|
|
:] '''Not done:'''<!-- Template:ESp --> Duplicate request. If the correct date is 2032 then an investigation with better sources will reveal this; no need to have two of the same open. ] (] / ]) 13:36, 15 June 2020 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Should we categorise it as a 2005 or 2006 film? changed the release year to 2006, although the film's first major premiere was in late 2005 followed by a wider release in 2006. —] (]) 13:26, 16 November 2023 (UTC) |
|
== Under Plot, the year the film takes place is incorrect == |
|
|
|
:I really don't think preview screenings should determine when a film is released, especially the butt numb a thon or whatever. It's like counting executive screenings as a release date. It should be the theatrical/digital debut date only. ] (]) 13:28, 16 November 2023 (UTC) |
|
|
:It came out in 2005. Case closed ] (]) 07:20, 27 December 2023 (UTC) |
|
|
::"Case closed" is a funny way of saying "I'm wrong" when the official website says 2006 . The only places I can see it as 2005 are IMDb and AllMovie which both accept user edits. ] (]) 09:49, 27 December 2023 (UTC) |
|
|
:::It looks like 2005 may be correct per ], which states, "List films by their earliest release date, whether it be at a film festival, a world premiere, a public release, or the release in the country or countries that produced the film, excluding sneak previews or screenings." ] (]) 13:52, 27 December 2023 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
== Adrian Biddle == |
|
{{edit semi-protected|V for Vendetta (film)|answered=yes}} |
|
|
The film can not possibly take place in the year 2020, due to numerous context clues throughout the film. |
|
|
1) When Eric Finch and Dominic Stone go to Evey’s apartment, Finch sees Evey’s old BTN ID card on her mirror. The expiration date on that ID is December 2024, and it is already expired, so it must be at least past that date. |
|
|
2) In Lewis Prothero’s military records, it states that he was put in charge of the Larkhill detention facility in 2016, meaning V could not have arrived at the facility prior to then. It also says he received a reward for bioscience research in 2017, establishing the St. Mary’s virus as occurring in 2017-2018. |
|
|
3) in Valerie’s letter, she states that she met her girlfriend, Ruth, in 2015, and they were together for three years before her imprisonment at Larkhill. Therefore, her letter to V could not have been written before 2018, meaning 5 November 2018 is the earliest V could have escaped from Larkhill. |
|
|
4) In a newscast Evey sees shortly before the end of the film, which takes place a year after the beginning, the St. Mary’s virus is stated as having occurred 14 years before. By the timeframe the movie establishes, that could not possibly have been 2007, as St. Mary’s was created at Larkhill, which opened in 2016. |
|
|
5) V states that it took ten years to clear the tracks below Parliament. As his escape from Larkhill occurred no earlier than 5 November 2018, the ending of the movie can be no earlier than 5 November 2028. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The ] section has the statement, "<span style="color:#050;font-style:italic;">V for Vendetta is the final film shot by cinematographer Adrian Biddle, who died of a heart attack on 7 December 2005, 9 months after the movie's world debut.</span>". The citation only states that the movie ''will be'' released (ie., in the future) in March. The earliest showing of the movie (at the Butt-Numb-A-Thon) was on 2005-12-11 (4 days ''after'' Adrian Biddle's death). In neither case (date mentioned in cited obituary nor the preview showing at the Butt-Numb-A-Thon) was Adrian Biddle's death 9 months after a world debut of the film. — ] (]) 19:45, 22 August 2024 (UTC) |
|
Assuming that St. Mary’s was unleashed on England at the end of 2017, and V escaped Larkhill on 5 November 2018, it is loosely established that the movie begins on 4 November 2030 and ends on 5 November 2031. ] (]) 16:40, 15 June 2020 (UTC) |
|
|
:{{Not done-t}} This request duplicates a discussion already underway in an above section. ] (]) 18:22, 15 June 2020 (UTC) |
|
I read somewhere that V might have actually been Valerie (the 'V' being significant), and that rather than avenging her, he was seeking revenge for what they had done to her in order to cure her "disorder": a partial change to her sex and/or gender that had unexpected repercussions. I don't know how credible this interpretation is, but it made sense to me. Unfortunately I can find no reference to it now. Anyone come across it before? TonyP (talk) 15:46, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
To-do: E · H · W · RUpdated 2007-03-08
