| Revision as of 10:13, 9 March 2022 editRKT7789 (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users7,240 edits →Incorrect and unclear citation← Previous edit |
Latest revision as of 10:41, 8 October 2024 edit undoSjö (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, New page reviewers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers58,611 edits →NRM is not a terrorist organisation in finland: ReplyTag: Reply |
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==Terror organisation== |
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== membership? == |
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Even though Left-wing and muslim organisations are much closer to the definition of what most regard as terrorists organisations those are not labeled as such by wiki. This is inconsistent and therefore the label terrorist organisation should be removed or terrorist organisation prefixed to all those other organisations as well including BLM. |
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: NMR has openly taken responsibility for those terrorist acts. For a week they terrified a small Jewish Comunity in ],<ref>https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/vasterbotten/efter-hot-fran-nazister-judiska-foreningen-lagger-ner</ref> they bombed a refuge center<ref>https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/7rx2w/nazister-doms-till-fangelse-for-bombdaden-i-goteborg</ref> all while NMR claimed responsibility. They are a terror organization. They are as much a terror organization as ] or ]. They use violence as a political tool, and most often when someone does that... they are often a terrorist. They terrify people til's their silence. BLM's riot is often violent but those are riots, not coordinated attacks. --] (]) 12:57, 12 September 2020 (UTC) |
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{{reflist-talk}} |
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:: Do you have any citation for the NRM claiming responsibility? ] (]) 23:12, 8 March 2022 (UTC) |
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==Combine?== |
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Perhaps the articles about the ], ] and ] should be combined. At least the Finnish organization is obviously subservient to the Swedish organization. |
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] (]) 03:12, 21 February 2013 (UTC) |
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== Merge from ] == |
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] is a brief article that describes the actions of this group. I think it could probably be easily merged into this article. Relevant guidelines would include ] and ]. ] (]) 00:20, 5 May 2014 (UTC) |
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*'''Support''': Excellent idea. Despite the news coverage, ] is not independently notable (]). --] (]) 07:34, 5 May 2014 (UTC) |
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*'''Support''' Event has not received coverage beyond a relatively short news cycle. --] (]) 05:01, 9 May 2014 (UTC) |
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== help == |
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{{edit fully-protected|ans=y}} |
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Error can somone please move this to original to Nordic Resistance Movement? ] (]) 13:09, 9 January 2016 (UTC) |
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:{{done}}. Take care with that move button! — Martin <small>(] · ])</small> 16:33, 9 January 2016 (UTC) |
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== External links modified == |
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Hello fellow Wikipedians, |
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I have just added archive links to {{plural:1|one external link|1 external links}} on ]. Please take a moment to review . If necessary, add {{tlx|cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{tlx|nobots|deny{{=}}InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes: |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090928111207/http://www.tv8.se:80/adaktusson/adaktusson-fortsaetter-granskningen-av-nazisterna-i-svenska-motstandsroerelsen to http://www.tv8.se/adaktusson/adaktusson-fortsaetter-granskningen-av-nazisterna-i-svenska-motstandsroerelsen |
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the ''checked'' parameter below to '''true''' to let others know. |
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{{sourcecheck|checked=false}} |
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Cheers.—]<small><sub style="margin-left:-14.9ex;color:green;font-family:Comic Sans MS;">]:Online</sub></small> 19:44, 28 January 2016 (UTC) |
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External link number 2 is dead. Someone with skills should fix it. <small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 19:15, 8 May 2016 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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==Merge from ]== |
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Article merged: See old talk-page ] |
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I have merged the article of Finnish branch of this organization into this article as there is no substantial difference in these two articles other than the part listing the violent incidences where Finnish branch has been a party of. Country branches are exact copies of the parent organization and there is no reason to have individual articles at the moment. ] (]) 00:55, 28 February 2016 (UTC) |
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== Ideologies == |
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@] I have reverted your edit. See their where the point 3 specifically states: '''"Create a Nordic self-sufficient state with a common military, common currency and central bank, as well as common overarching laws."''' Their goal is the most extreme form of ], a single state consisting of current |
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== Sources about NRM as a party == |
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It's clearly a party. I'm pressed for time because of Christmas and job committments, but I'll put some WP:RS here for future use by me or others. Sorry, but they're all in Swedish. |
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# |
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# with the ] (seek "Nordiska motståndsrörelsen") |
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#, but on a ] mandate. ] (]) 07:28, 4 December 2017 (UTC) |
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Item 3 suggests that they are NOT a party, as the term is usually understood; members of parties do not typically run for office as members of another party. ] (]) 17:53, 4 December 2017 (UTC) |
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:He didn't. The Sweden Democrats won more seats than they had candidates on the ballot in that municipality. The Swedish election law allowed anyone to write any name on their ballot. A couple of people (who may or may not be from NRM)did that and gave Öberg a seat in the municipal council. The source was not to show that NRM is a party, but more as a comment on the statement that NRM has a seat. NRM doesn't, it's SD that has the seat. |
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:Re: the "party" designation, there are several reliable sources calling them a party, but I think that the official registration for election would be enough. |
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:Another thing. There are a number of unreliable sources in the article right now. Among the the Knights Templar Europe, the Daily Mail and various right-wing sources that should be avioded for statements of fact, but can be acceptabele as sources for what the organization says about itself. I don't support the uncritical restoration of those sources. ] (]) 09:05, 5 December 2017 (UTC) |
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You people are just unable to read, aren't you? |
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http://www.esisc.org/publications/briefings/radicalization-polarization-and-xenophobia-the-growing-influence-of-the-nordic-resistance-movement-in-sweden-and-finland <- " Indeed, since 2015 the NRM has been a registered political party in Sweden." |
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https://www.dn.se/nyheter/politik/kupp-ger-nazister-sd-mandat/ <- When NRM got a seat in Ludvika. |
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Or see the multiple videos were the Nordic Resistance Movement is represented on a municipality council? (They have 2 seats. One in Borlänge, another in Ludvika. The following videos are from Ludvika, with NRM's spokesman, legal advisor and parliamentary leader - Pär Öberg - is sitting on the Ludvika Municipality Council) |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQDk192pT10 |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-VRZwxcHU4 |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKcM1IPt9cY |
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It's bad enough that you're deciding to remove this info from the article, but it's even worse that you're removing just about 50% of the page (most of which is confirmed correct information), such as the leaders, founding years, sites, its activity in Norway, its headquarters (They are NOT headquartered in Stockholm. They are headquarted in Grängesberg), its key ideologies (such as Pan-Nordism), its banning date in Finland, its secretary, its merging organizations, its political position, its activity in Denmark and Iceland (though I am by no means saying it has been established in these countries), its recent activity (most notably its demonstrations), the list just goes on and on and on. |
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] (]) 20:07, 23 December 2017 (UTC) |
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:I'm as surprised as GaiusoftheJulii that an experienced editor removes sourced information. There is no doubt that it's registered as a party and that there are reliable sources calling it a party to mention a few. However, the party has also been described as the "parliamentary branch" of the movement , a description also used by the NRM . A reasonable compromise is IMO to use the phrasing from the Swedish article that says "a far-right Nordic militant nazi organisation and a political party". I think, with that change and a source for Grängesberg , GaiusoftheJulii's edits should be restored. ] (]) 07:50, 25 December 2017 (UTC) |
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::The only question here is about which infobox is more appropriate to use. The NRM operates in 5 countries, and is only a registered politicial party in '''''one''''' of them. That means that "infobox organization" is the more appropriate infobox than "infobox political party". If GofJ wants to re-add the information using the correct infobox, I have no objection, but he needs to stop changing the infobox to one which is misleading in regards to the NRM as a whole. ] (]) 17:11, 25 December 2017 (UTC) |
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:::I have restored the edits with the exception of the infobox. ] (]) 17:16, 25 December 2017 (UTC) |
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{{Reply to|Beyond My Ken}} There could be two infoboxes on top of eachother, one for the organization itself, and another for the party. Looking at past revisions, it was like this before (with the exception of the mistake that both of these were party infoboxes) ] (]) 17:19, 25 December 2017 (UTC) |
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::::A party is an organisation, so one, general infobox "Organisation" is better suited for the article. ] (]) 19:12, 25 December 2017 (UTC) |
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== Redirect of Simon Lindberg == |
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I restored the redirect of ] to this article with this . The subject is not independently notable of his org; hence the redirect. In addition, the article was expanded from a redirect by a banned sock: ]. ] (]) 23:15, 30 December 2017 (UTC) |
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== Objection to the usage of the term "National Socialist" as it relates to NPOV and encyclopedic tone == |
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"National Socialist" in reference to neo-Nazism seems to be a politically correct version for the name used primarily and perhaps exclusively by actual neo-Nazis and subscribers of closely related ideologies like national anarchism. The tone reminds me of the speech of the various neo-Nazis that I've encountered online rather than an encyclopedia, and that is not what ] (see doublespeak and jargon). This page appears to be heavily written by a legitimate member of the Nordic Resistance Movement under several confirmed sockpuppets, so my concerns aren't necessarily unwarranted here. It could also potentially inhibit the reader's understanding unnecessarily, as not everybody knows the actual meaning of National Socialism. |
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As an alternative, we could use the term "neo-Nazi" instead: it doesn't seem like using that term is considered a breach of NPOV (it could be considered to be anti-Nazi because of its historical origins, but apparently not to a great enough deal that it's disallowed), as it can be found in the lead sections of ] where it describes some protesters as neo-Nazis, ] in the quote "which contains far-right, identitarian ... and neo-Nazi points of view", as well as ], and I'm sure in many other articles as well. Would it therefore be appropriate to replace "National Socialist" and its variations with "neo-Nazi", "Nazi", or some other word with less positive or sympathetic connotations? ] (]) 04:34, 30 January 2018 (UTC) |
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:I have no objection to replacing "National Socialism" with "Neo-Nazism" is most circumstances. ] (]) 05:03, 30 January 2018 (UTC) |
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: It's neo-nazism as it's after 1945. // ] (]) 08:42, 30 January 2018 (UTC) |
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::Even ] is a redirect to ], so definitely. ] ] 08:47, 30 January 2018 (UTC) |
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:::And ] points to the main article ] which shows that neo-Nazism is the preferred term on Misplaced Pages for the movements that are active today. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 04:21, 30 January 2018 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Xsign --> |
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Would it not be a better idea to have their position on the political possition be "Far-right to Alt-right" or "Alt-right to Neo-nazisem" instead of just "Far-right"? --] (]) 17:51, 16 July 2020 (UTC) |
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== HTTPS == |
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The problem with using HTTPS is that it messes up the formatting of websites. ] (]) 11:25, 30 January 2018 (UTC) |
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:You should address this concern to the editor making the change from http to https. ] (]) 19:12, 30 January 2018 (UTC) |
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== Ing rune and reliable sources == |
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The ] was recently added to the infobox, and i asked for a citation as I have only ever seen their logo referred to as the ]. Even in articles about the Tyr rune in their logo the Ing rune isn't mentioned and the Ing rune isn't in ] list of far-right symbols . |
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However, I found on an article that has a quote from their handbook: ''"Den samlade symbolen för Nordiska motståndsrörelsen är Riksrunan (symbolen för det nya Nordiska riket). Symbolen består av en Tyrruna och en Ingruna."'' (The common symbol for the Nordic Resistance Movement is the Realm rune (the symbol of the new Nordic realm). The symbol is comprised of a Tyr rune and an Ing rune.) |
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Considering that Nordfront is a self-published source, is that link considered a reliable source for the runes in the logo? ] (]) 07:16, 2 April 2018 (UTC) |
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:If the Nordfront is in some way connected to the NRM, then its statements about (essentially) itself are usable, although nothing else from it would be. ] (]) 14:10, 2 April 2018 (UTC) |
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::Done. ] (]) 05:02, 5 April 2018 (UTC) |
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==Only Northern European?== |
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The Misplaced Pages article says they follow a Romanian, Corneliu Codreanu. That is not ''northern european''. Someone explain please. ] (]) 18:53, 25 August 2018 (UTC) |
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:It does not say that they "follow him", it says that they have praised his writings. Do you imagine that they would only pay attention to the writings and ideologies of northern Europeans? ] (]) 21:11, 25 August 2018 (UTC) |
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::Their nine points use this wording: ''of Northern European or of closely related descent''.] (]) 03:10, 26 August 2018 (UTC) |
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:::Which has nothing whatsoever to do with the question you asked. nor is Romanian in any respect "closely related" to "Northern European", so I don't have a clue what you're on about. ] (]) 04:19, 26 August 2018 (UTC) |
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::::All Europeans are closely related. Read William Pierce he said it, and that explains why the NRM follows Codreanu. ] (]) 12:15, 26 August 2018 (UTC) |
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:::::William Pierce is an expert on nothing. Your prejudices are exposed. ] (]) 15:24, 26 August 2018 (UTC) |
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::::::I am not defending Pierce, I am simply saying that this is the context in which the NRM uses the term ''of closely related descent''.] (]) 15:20, 27 August 2018 (UTC) |
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== Status in Finland? == |
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I was left a bit unclear on this group's status in Finland. The article says twice that it was banned and the ban was appealed, but there's no mention as to whether the appeals were successful or not. My impression is that they were and that the group is not banned any more, but I didn't want to make any changes without checking here. ] (]) 21:57, 24 February 2019 (UTC) |
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:You shouldn;t add that information unless you have a citation from a reliable source to support it. ] (]) 04:48, 25 February 2019 (UTC) |
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:The verdict has been appealed to the Supreme Court of Finland. The court hasn't decided yet if they will hear the case. This means that as of now the ban on NRM isn't in place. ] (]) 05:33, 25 February 2019 (UTC) |
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::Wait, if the ban wasn't overturned, and the Supreme Court is deciding whether to hear the case, doesn't that mean that the ban '''''is''''' in place? That's how it works in the American legal system, anyway. Or did lower courts grant the appeal? ] (]) 05:54, 25 February 2019 (UTC) |
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:::As the HBL source "The NRM can demonstrate in public..." says, the appeal means that for the NRM the ban isn't in place. ] (]) 06:07, 25 February 2019 (UTC) |
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::::But why is that? There appears to be a hole in the progression of the story. ] (]) 06:10, 25 February 2019 (UTC) |
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:::::IANAL, but in Finland, as a rule judgements can't be acted on until they win legal force (i.e. can't be appealed anymore) according to the Finnish ''Förvaltningslagen'' in Swedish/''Hallintolaki'' in Finnish. This rule can be set aside by provisions in other laws. ] (]) 17:14, 25 February 2019 (UTC) |
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::::::Interesting, thanks for that information. ] (]) 18:40, 25 February 2019 (UTC) |
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== Swedish page about Simon Lindberg redirects here == |
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Shouldn't there be a separate article on Lindberg? <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 14:27, 15 July 2019 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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== You know what is NORDFRONT.SE == |
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it's a neo nazi group in sweden |
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Well I hope it will be banned neo nazi group.- Samiwikia <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 21:18, 2 October 2020 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:Nordfront.se is the Swedish version of the NRM's online newspaper. It should not be mistaken for a separate far-right organization. ] (]) 05:06, 3 October 2020 (UTC) |
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it would be good to have at least some gauges of size in the box at the top of the article, even if vague and/or outdated as is the case with the AWD article. Without a measure of size the NRM could either be an almost non-existent, irrelevant phantom “network” of people that claim its name, like Niners (the Order of Nine Angles), or a more relevant/fanatic/monolithic National Socialist political presence such as Rusich group. |
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== Allies in infobox == |
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A claimed consensus figure could be good, though of course Misplaced Pages standards would mean making it clear that it’s (claimed) membership. |
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I don’t see a reason why NRM would lie about it’s proliferation as the dichotomy is as a Radical “Extremist” movement: |
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• highballing your membership makes it out like you have a bunch of lackey members and just sit inactive all day like Sonnenkreig (if SKD even exists beyond a few 2018 Discord teenagers) |
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• lowballing your membership makes it out like you’re close-knit, which isn’t a good look for a variety of reasons. |
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NRM does seem quite divided in ideology but it’s obviously National Socialist. Its members sipped and are sipping the waffen (and more obscurely, Niner?) ice tea but it seems more like 00s vanguard just-wait-for-the-system-to-collapse-itself National Socialism than Orthodox waffen accelerationist. At least the majority of its members. ] (]) 11:28, 28 September 2024 (UTC) |
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:You have some source vis a vis membership size in mind?] (]) 11:40, 28 September 2024 (UTC) |
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== NRM is not a terrorist organisation in finland == |
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There is a list of allies but no sources that support any alliance. IMO "allies" apply in a military conflict or when there is a formal agreement, e.g. a´n agreement of ]. Sharing an ideology should not count as an alliance, and it looks like all of those listed are not even neo-nazi organization. I will remove the entire list and hope that it will not be restored unless there are sources. ] (]) 06:21, 9 June 2021 (UTC) |
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:{{ping|Sjö}} I did not feel that adding a source for each was necessary in the infobox as they are explained in the article (most in the Finnish section I worked on), but I will add sources and restore it then.] (]) 10:27, 10 June 2021 (UTC) |
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::I have no problem with that if you have sources that show that they are allies. IMO e.g. appearing on the same website, selling books promoting something or having some members in common does not mean that two organizations are allies. ] (]) 11:20, 10 June 2021 (UTC) |
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NRM’s finnish branch PVL pohjoismainen vastarinta liike is illegal but they don’t exist anymore because they were disolved by court order the non finnish branches of the organization are not considered illegal or security threats by finnish authorities ] (]) 10:17, 8 October 2024 (UTC) |
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== Incorrect and unclear citation == |
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:It is not important that it was dissolved, if the court order is still in force. More importantly, I do not see anything in the source that says it was declared a terrorist organization. It was proscribed for a number of reason but terrorism isn't mentioned. ] (]) 10:41, 8 October 2024 (UTC) |
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Concerning the text “The NRM has been described as a terrorist organization due to their aim of abolishing democracy along with their paramilitary activities, weapons caches and connections to proscribed terrorist organizations such as the Russian Imperial Movement and National Action.” it is unclear which citation is associated with which of the claim. 23 and 24 does not make these claims, and 22 is behind a pay-wall so I have not read it, but from the little that is seen without paying, it does not address any of these claims. ] (]) 23:17, 8 March 2022 (UTC) |
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:" but from the little that is seen without paying, it does not address any of these claims." |
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:Really? the title of the article is "Terrorist researchers: "NMR definitely a terrorist group". In addition to which NRM has been called to be banned as a terrorist organization by multiple elected representatives both in Scandinavia and USA.] (]) 10:13, 9 March 2022 (UTC) |
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it would be good to have at least some gauges of size in the box at the top of the article, even if vague and/or outdated as is the case with the AWD article. Without a measure of size the NRM could either be an almost non-existent, irrelevant phantom “network” of people that claim its name, like Niners (the Order of Nine Angles), or a more relevant/fanatic/monolithic National Socialist political presence such as Rusich group.
A claimed consensus figure could be good, though of course Misplaced Pages standards would mean making it clear that it’s (claimed) membership.
I don’t see a reason why NRM would lie about it’s proliferation as the dichotomy is as a Radical “Extremist” movement:
• highballing your membership makes it out like you have a bunch of lackey members and just sit inactive all day like Sonnenkreig (if SKD even exists beyond a few 2018 Discord teenagers)
• lowballing your membership makes it out like you’re close-knit, which isn’t a good look for a variety of reasons.
NRM does seem quite divided in ideology but it’s obviously National Socialist. Its members sipped and are sipping the waffen (and more obscurely, Niner?) ice tea but it seems more like 00s vanguard just-wait-for-the-system-to-collapse-itself National Socialism than Orthodox waffen accelerationist. At least the majority of its members. 2A00:23C6:D603:8001:A0:E6E4:FE98:D178 (talk) 11:28, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
NRM’s finnish branch PVL pohjoismainen vastarinta liike is illegal but they don’t exist anymore because they were disolved by court order the non finnish branches of the organization are not considered illegal or security threats by finnish authorities 193.210.194.118 (talk) 10:17, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
