| Revision as of 14:33, 11 March 2024 editRKT7789 (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users7,240 edits →Allied to Azov brigade?← Previous edit |
Latest revision as of 10:41, 8 October 2024 edit undoSjö (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, New page reviewers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers58,611 edits →NRM is not a terrorist organisation in finland: ReplyTag: Reply |
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== Primary sourcing == |
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== membership? == |
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it would be good to have at least some gauges of size in the box at the top of the article, even if vague and/or outdated as is the case with the AWD article. Without a measure of size the NRM could either be an almost non-existent, irrelevant phantom “network” of people that claim its name, like Niners (the Order of Nine Angles), or a more relevant/fanatic/monolithic National Socialist political presence such as Rusich group. |
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{{ping|Gooduserdude}} I don't believe that ''anything'' on this website should be sourced to any Nazi publication or outlet but I don't see how I could put that into practice on this page. My concern regarding the edit I reverted is more specific: it's the only thing on this article that's sourced to this organization's own website, which per ] is rarely allowed. The first requirement at that policy section says that if a primary source is used, it must be "''reputably published''" and I bet I'd have no problem compiling dozens, hundreds, ''thousands'' of lies, inflammatory statements, and attacks on that website to prove it's no such thing. |
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A claimed consensus figure could be good, though of course Misplaced Pages standards would mean making it clear that it’s (claimed) membership. |
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I don’t see a reason why NRM would lie about it’s proliferation as the dichotomy is as a Radical “Extremist” movement: |
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• highballing your membership makes it out like you have a bunch of lackey members and just sit inactive all day like Sonnenkreig (if SKD even exists beyond a few 2018 Discord teenagers) |
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• lowballing your membership makes it out like you’re close-knit, which isn’t a good look for a variety of reasons. |
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NRM does seem quite divided in ideology but it’s obviously National Socialist. Its members sipped and are sipping the waffen (and more obscurely, Niner?) ice tea but it seems more like 00s vanguard just-wait-for-the-system-to-collapse-itself National Socialism than Orthodox waffen accelerationist. At least the majority of its members. ] (]) 11:28, 28 September 2024 (UTC) |
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:You have some source vis a vis membership size in mind?] (]) 11:40, 28 September 2024 (UTC) |
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== NRM is not a terrorist organisation in finland == |
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Would you agree to revert this change until a source without an obvious connection to this organization can be found? <b style="font-family: Segoe Script;">'']]]''</b> 20:39, 26 February 2024 (UTC) |
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NRM’s finnish branch PVL pohjoismainen vastarinta liike is illegal but they don’t exist anymore because they were disolved by court order the non finnish branches of the organization are not considered illegal or security threats by finnish authorities ] (]) 10:17, 8 October 2024 (UTC) |
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::found non-primary source and added it thereafter ] (]) 21:02, 1 March 2024 (UTC) |
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:It is not important that it was dissolved, if the court order is still in force. More importantly, I do not see anything in the source that says it was declared a terrorist organization. It was proscribed for a number of reason but terrorism isn't mentioned. ] (]) 10:41, 8 October 2024 (UTC) |
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== Allied to Azov brigade? == |
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The infobox says they're allied with Azov, but it seems like a stretch to say that they were and currently '''are''' allied like the article says. The source only says they have "links" to Azov and I wouldn't call going on a podcast together and them sending a delegation to meet Azov Brigade great evidence of an alliance or "close cooperation", especially given the NRM's stance on the war. On their website they seem to take a neutral or slightly pro-Russian stance on the conflict. They describe it as a "brother war" and say that "" but they also say NATO provocation prompted Russia to invade. If anything, surely it'd be more accurate to say they're allied with and support Rusich group (a Russian neo-nazi group) given that they've worked with and sheltered the organization's second in command. ] (]) 08:12, 11 March 2024 (UTC) |
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:This might sound counterintuitive, but supporting both Rusich/RIM and Azov isn't mutually exclusive. Atomwaffen and Base are neutral on the conflict and deal with both sides of the conflict, for example. Groups like this also send their people to the conflict area to gain military experience. Why limit yourself to one side? Both RIM and Azov run training camps for nazis, so might as well make most of a bad situation ("brother war"). I wouldn't oppose adding Rusich to the list of allied groups, but why take Azov out when they clearly do work together. Both Rusich and Azov have Finnish nazi volunteers to my knowledge.] (]) 14:33, 11 March 2024 (UTC) |
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it would be good to have at least some gauges of size in the box at the top of the article, even if vague and/or outdated as is the case with the AWD article. Without a measure of size the NRM could either be an almost non-existent, irrelevant phantom “network” of people that claim its name, like Niners (the Order of Nine Angles), or a more relevant/fanatic/monolithic National Socialist political presence such as Rusich group.
A claimed consensus figure could be good, though of course Misplaced Pages standards would mean making it clear that it’s (claimed) membership.
I don’t see a reason why NRM would lie about it’s proliferation as the dichotomy is as a Radical “Extremist” movement:
• highballing your membership makes it out like you have a bunch of lackey members and just sit inactive all day like Sonnenkreig (if SKD even exists beyond a few 2018 Discord teenagers)
• lowballing your membership makes it out like you’re close-knit, which isn’t a good look for a variety of reasons.
NRM does seem quite divided in ideology but it’s obviously National Socialist. Its members sipped and are sipping the waffen (and more obscurely, Niner?) ice tea but it seems more like 00s vanguard just-wait-for-the-system-to-collapse-itself National Socialism than Orthodox waffen accelerationist. At least the majority of its members. 2A00:23C6:D603:8001:A0:E6E4:FE98:D178 (talk) 11:28, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
NRM’s finnish branch PVL pohjoismainen vastarinta liike is illegal but they don’t exist anymore because they were disolved by court order the non finnish branches of the organization are not considered illegal or security threats by finnish authorities 193.210.194.118 (talk) 10:17, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
