Misplaced Pages

Talk:Idiocracy: Difference between revisions

Article snapshot taken from Wikipedia with creative commons attribution-sharealike license. Give it a read and then ask your questions in the chat. We can research this topic together.
Browse history interactively← Previous editContent deleted Content addedVisualWikitext
Revision as of 18:49, 21 February 2013 editBoomshadow (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Rollbackers4,245 editsm →Op-ed piece← Previous edit Latest revision as of 20:58, 8 October 2024 edit undoCenterone (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users1,733 editsm →Categorize under Films about time travel: adding a bracket to my own comment 
(146 intermediate revisions by 64 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
{{Talk header}}
{{WikiProjectBannerShell|1=
{{WikiProject banner shell|class=B|1=
{{Film|American-task-force=yes|class=C|B-Class-1=no|B-Class-2=yes|B-Class-3=no|B-Class-4=no|B-Class-5=yes}}
{{WikiProject Film|American-task-force=yes}}
{{Science Fiction Project|class=Start|type=Article}}
{{Comedy|class=start|importance=mid}} {{WikiProject Science Fiction|importance=Low}}
{{WikiProject Comedy|importance=Mid}}
{{WikiProject 20th Century Studios |importance=Low}}
{{WikiProject United States|importance=Low|USfilm=yes|USfilm-importance=low}}
}}
{{To do}}
{{User:MiszaBot/config
| algo = old(90d)
| archive = Talk:Idiocracy/Archive %(counter
Water )d
| counter = 2
| maxarchivesize = 150K
| archiveheader = {{Automatic archive navigator}}
| minthreadstoarchive = 1
| minthreadsleft = 2
}} }}
{{todo}}
{{Template:Findsourcesnotice}}

== Running Man references ==

I don't want to add a popular references section here without running it by everyone concerned.

The "Re-Education Night" show is a take on Running Man. I realised it's undeniable when a contestant on Running Man was dressed up and held a flame-thrower like that fella who was sent to finish off Joe.

Am I right?
Shall I do my research and add this?

] (]) 22:16, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

:Uhmmm... do you mean "Monday Night Rehabilitation"? I don't know of any "Re-Education Night". Also, I think you'd be wrong. While the repeated accidental flame-throwing of the area assistant is a clear and obvious sight-gag, neither the two characters nor their outfits or gear look anything alike between the two films. From runningman fireball character: http://mimg.ugo.com/201005/44931/ugo-50jp-fireball.jpg from Idiocracy Beef Supreme with flamethrower: http://www.enjoy-your-style.com/images/beef-supreme.jpg ] (]) 23:13, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

== unedited F-word on comedy central tv version ==
shortly after the initial showing of the buttfuckers sign. a smaller version can be seen in which the f-word is not edited out. is there a place in the article for this--] (]) 04:28, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

:::Yes. --< ] (]) 17:24, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

==Image==

The movie poster I supplied from www.impawards.com is not the greatest quality. Could someone find a better source? Thanks. ] 17:26, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

I also believe that the poster in question is actually not an official poster, and that no official poster was actually released. Anyone confirm/disprove? --] 23:40, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Anon user, I know, sorry, but I just wanted to comment that I'm pretty sure the poster is official. I've seen that poster up at a local MJR (Southgate, MI) for at least a month now.

That was the movie poster up at the movie theatre in LA that I saw Idiocracy in. The DVD promo poster is different.
] 07:45, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

The poster now shown was the poster I saw at the theatre it played at in Austin, TX, when I saw it in Sept, 2006. I even posted a snapshot to Flickr. The poster used for this article may've changed since Soultaco's comment. ]&nbsp;(<big><font color="darkred">]&nbsp;]&nbsp;]</font></big>) 22:26, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

==Description==

Since the opening sequence in the movie differs somewhat from what was apparently in the script (there is no longer a split-screen effect, but rather a family tree graphic that exponentially grows), should the screenplay excerpt be removed? It still serves the purpose of setting up the "e/volution has stopped functioning" concept. ] 18:15, 4 September 2006

*The DVD opening has split-screen effect and a growing family tree. DVD=film?. Can you provide a script reference? --] 01:09, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

:I only know the split-screen version; since what I was shown was a pirated version and I didn't care to inquire the source, I ''think'' it was form the DVD. ] 12:36, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Does the opening as written by Judge and Coen actually indicate that "educated élites" are the font of societal intelligence? This does not sound right to me. ] (]) 18:57, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
:* Nothing about elites, or education. Only "strongest, fastest, smartest", "more intelligent", "left the intelligent to become an endangered species." The opening scenes are viewable for reference - see . --] (]) 07:28, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

== Enough references yet?==
*"This article or section may contain original research or unverified claims. Please help Misplaced Pages by adding references. See the talk page for details." - When this notice was inserted, nothing specific about original research was noted. Can this notice be removed? The cites look pretty good so far. --] 11:24, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
*I'm removing the {{Original research|date=October 2007}} tag. --] 08:30, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

== Joe Bauers - Private or Corporal? ==
Somebody inserted "Corporal" in the cast list. He's not listed as a Corporal anywhere on the web, but is listed as "Private" in all the sites I've found. He's mentioned in the narration as "Army librarian". --] 04:20, 18 March 2007 (UTC)


&nbsp; In the scene where Collins is telling the meeting about Joe, with an image of Joe projected behind him, if you look closely, you can see that Joe is wearing the stripes of a corporal.&nbsp; This cannot be easily discerned from the clip at http://broadband.foxhome.com/idiocracy/010407/idiocracy_clip3_300K.wmv because the resolution is not quite good enough to clearly tell if it's one stripe (private) or two stripes (corporal); but the actual DVD has enough resolution to discern this.&nbsp; Two stripes; he's a corporal. &mdash;
] 08:01, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

==Trivia==

Basically I think "Apparently, none of the shirts or pants have buttons or zippers. This was likely intended to illustrate humanity's inability to operate something as simple as a zipper or a button." should be taken out because in the scene where Joe goes to look at the crops we see a zipper and a button on his vest. And the design of his vest is just like all the other vests.

:I'm sure it has more to do with sheer laziness than anything, like wearing crocs (also featured prominently in the film). --] (]) 20:23, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Maybe in it's place we could mention something about the dvd case stating "DOUBLE SIDED SINGLE LAYER" but the disk you get is only one sided but the volume label is "IDIOCRACY_SIDEA"?

] 05:06, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

:Do you see him ZIP UP the vest or just put it over his head like a shirt?

-G

::I don't think we see Joe put on the vest he is wearing while inspecting the corps. But Joe is so smart that I think he would have zipped and buttoned his vest, right? However he got into that outfit . . . it does have a zipper and a button on it. And it looks just like all the other blue vests in the film. In any event, the sentence in question seems to me, to be more speculation than trivia.
] 07:58, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Basically none of the clothes had buttons or zippers, just as none of the shoes had laces. ] 00:56, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
*I think the best way to represent this is with a couple of small cu screengrabs. The artice needs more fair use images anyways. --] 09:07, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

== Userbox ==

{{user 1|black|#3FFF00|id-fc=#3FFF00|B|This user knows that ]}}
{{-}}
<nowiki>{{user 1|black|#3FFF00|id-fc=#3FFF00|B|This user knows that ]}}</nowiki>

I've created a userbox that people can add to their user pages for Idiocracy. Just copy the code below it and enjoy! ] • ] • ] 23:01, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

: No no no. Brawndo's '''got''' what plants '''crave'''. ...it's got electrolytes. ] 05:35, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
:: Mmm yes but ...it's got '''molecules.''' --] (]) 06:20, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
::: Carl Jr.'s has more MOL-E-CULES! I know because my Omnibro food dispenser told me so! ] (]) 23:17, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

{{user 1|black|#3FFF00|id-fc=#3FFF00|B|This user knows that ]}}
{{-}}
<nowiki>{{user 1|black|#3FFF00|id-fc=#3FFF00|B|This user knows that ]}}</nowiki>
:: Thanks, I thought it was bit off. ] • ] • ] 23:06, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Do you even know what electrolytes are?] 03:07, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

==To Do==
''Idiocracy'' is shaping up well. I've added the todo list, in the hopes we can get specific help to get this article to B grade and beyond. --Lexein
*Reviews
:*Found this recent UK review - http://dvdtimes.co.uk/content.php?contentid=64378 half-hearted thumbs up. Will add in later.--] 08:36, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
:*austin paper http://www.austinchronicle.com/gyrobase/Issue/column?oid=oid:278522 <small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (] • ]) 09:13, 26 April 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->
:*Rolling stone - negative http://www.rollingstone.com/reviews/dvd/13349677/review/13349750/idiocracy --] 12:25, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
:*additional screenplay review - not needed, I'll bet --] 12:25, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
*shooting locations: (need photos or other references)
:*gov't film site: http://www.austintexas.org/film/austin_films archived
:*here: "the Convention Center, where Luke Wilson's character encounters some amazingly stupid voice-activated software, (Confirmed North Atrium: and .
:*here: "One scene apparently took place in the midst of construction at I-35 and Ben White" at . See also I-35 and Ben White construction: ,
:* "Hey, if you want to see the interior of the Talking Books Warehouse (the big building over on Shoal Creek between 38th and 45th) go check out this film. A small part of it was filmed there. The green things on the shelves are the boxes the Talking Books come in (they are cassette tapes." --] 10:51, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
:* Austin Area, San Marcos, Pflugerville, Round Rock - per http://www.governor.state.tx.us/divisions/film/general/00film.htm --] 12:25, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

== Upgrayedd ==

I support the hyphenated spelling in the synopsis, because that's how the character "spells it". Since it's spelled Upgrayedd in the official documentation for the film and everywhere else it's been reported, the non-hyphenate is correct everywhere else. --] 01:22, 28 April 2007 (UTC)


Terry Crews (Upgrayedd)...wants to do a spin-off? hmmmm, methinks he be drinkin' a tadd bit too much Brawndo!! <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 23:27, 18 January 2013 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Mike Judge cameo role ==

I believe that Mike Judge played the Army Officer (a Major, I think) who initiated the hibernation experiment. This was the officer whose arrest for pimping (after his friendship with Upgrayedd went too far) caused the experiment to be abandoned.
If anyone out there could verify this, please do so. --''']''' ] ] ]] <small>]</small> 21:09, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

This is not correct. That character was played by Mike McCafferty, star of Channel101 shows Quest, The Jogger, and The Con-Time Machine.

== Uniformly stupid world, not U.S. ==
{{Collapse top|title=Discussion has gone off-topic (])}}
'... to discover that dysgenics and cultural anti-intellectualism have resulted in a uniformly stupid United States, called "Uhh-merica."' It's actually the whole world, not just the U.S. But the film centers on events in the U.S., so perhaps no change should be made. --] ] 2007-07-8 11:57 11:57, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, the world ''is'' uniformly stupid in the film, but I think the film is especially a commentary on the currently popular American values taken to their logical extreme. ] 01:37, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

The only stupid people are the people on the left who love a movie based on Eugenic theories, too ignorant to recognize a Eugenics theory, and too lame and partisan to make the connection to other Eugenic proponenets in history. Those on the left actually need someone from the right thinking mind to come up to them and say, "Hey your not suppose to be laughing," but since those on the left are too braindead as it is they cannot originally come up with a thought of their own. It has to be fed to them with a tube.] 21:33, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

:Eat my penis. ] (]) 16:03, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

:Thanks for the input. I think this helps make the case for a uniformly stupid world: left, right and otherwise. ] 17:56, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

::Though I would consider myself a leftist, and though I think the Right is usually more ignorant than the left (though I'm disillusioned by electoral politics and am therefore non-partisan), the film is based on eugenics, and is ill-conceived. For one thing, it entirely practically ignores social influencs that humans have and chooses rather to focus almost entirely on evolution. While doing this, it also perpetuates stereotypes about class--notice that the 'idiots' breeding ridiculously are trailer trash. I'm not saying there aren't people like this that exist, but the reality is much more complex than the film tries to make it. It seems to offer the solution of: Okay, smart people breed, dumb people don't. Aside from this being precisely related to eugenics, the film also makes the class connections. So really, the message it sends is: Okay, rich people breed, poor people don't breed. Other problems with the film exist, such as the fact that nobody seemed to realize the message they sent by making the president of a uniformly stupid country the token black guy, but most of the problems stem from this overly simplistic and flawed view of society. Of course, none of this is relevant to the article, as it seems nobody prominent has criticized the film in such a manner. Still, I thought I'd join in on the discussion.] (]) 22:55, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
:::first guy that posted is dumb but still right. third guy is wrong, smart, and sadly often right.. but either way, isn't this kind of contrary to how Mike Judge usually thinks? Have I had him pegged wrong all this time? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 03:51, 12 February 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

Oh, brother. More political correctness, right? Guys, this film is a satire -- a logical continuation of ] -- not a promotion for eugenics. The idea that "dumb" people are more likely to have large families of equally "dumb" children holds a (very) tiny shred of truth, and this serves as a convenient ] on which to base the story.

My reason for posting was to point out that this article neglects to explain ], which makes any attempt to eugenically "improve" the human race (or to make it worse) effectively impossible. Bright people have dumb children and ''vice versa''. Plain people have handsome children (''qv'', ]), and so on.

In practice, it doesn't matter ''why'' people are getting dumber -- but they are. It's no wonder most viewers didn't like it. ] (]) 13:44, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
: The only thing wrong with this comment is that it is wrong. Perhaps because YOU are dumb. But intelligent people...who use FACTS...know that humans are seeiing an increase in intelligence.

Then again, in practice (e.g. most people are much more like characters in the movie than compared to other movies with clever acting and fast talking heroes) I'd suggest that the film came too close to truth and that's my supposed explanation for commercial disaster.. ] (]) 13:10, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:another possibility for commercial disaster was that it was horribly written, horribly acted, and had a lot of plot holes, like the very advanced technology shown in a film about a dumb society. And no...you can't say that it was technology invented before the dumbing down of society, because everything breaks down eventually and has to be fixed.

people talking about eugenics are focusing too much on how scientifically sound the premise is, instead of enjoying the satire.. the real cause would be the glorification of being stupid that is prevelant through out our society and culture.. shows like jerry springer, the jersey shore, and other reality shows that popularize stupid people and make other emulate them..but like everyone else..... I LIKE MONEY! <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 19:49, 3 October 2012 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

Can anyone please mention a specific quote or scene that confirmes that the movie is indeed telling a story of dysgenics -- a decrease in intellligence based on biological heredity -- rather than merely ''cultural'' deterioration? --] (]) 05:42, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

:From the prologue: "Evolution does not necessarily reward intelligence. With no natural predators to thin the herd, it began to simply reward those who reproduced the most, and left the intelligent to become an endangered species." This is followed by a comparison between "smart" and "stupid" family trees. Then at the very end: "Joe and Rita had three children, the smartest kids in the world. Vice-President Frito took eight wives and had a total of thirty-two kids, thirty-two of the dumbest kids ever to walk the earth." ] (]) 09:25, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
{{lorem ipsum}}
{{Collapse bottom}}

==External links==
This section needed cleanup so I've moved the links here until they can be worked into the main body of text in the article (quoted, rewritten, etc and referenced). --] 17:59, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

===Scenes===
Scenes from the opening of the film, from Fox Home Video website: ,
* , , , . ] format.

===Release===
<!-- * MTV News. Larry Carroll, August 10, 2006. Mentions the film being held from release. -- Already cited -->
* Ain't It Cool News. ], September 2, 2006. On the film's mishandling.
* Esquire. Brian Raftery, June 1, 2006. Interview with Mike Judge about the film's mishandling.
* Cinematical. Jette Kernion, Oct 22nd 2006. On the film's mishandling.
<!-- * The Guardian. John Patterson, September 8, 2006. Article on the film's mishandling. -- already cited -->
* Time. Joel Stein, September 10, 2006. On the film's mishandling.
* NPR's ''Day to Day''. Nihar Patel, September 8, 2006. Audio report on the marketing of the film. Includes comments by a veteran Fox marketing employee.
<!--* Tribute.ca. Anon. Mentions DVD release date. linkspam -->

===Reviews===
* FilmJerk.com. Edward Havens, January 29th, 2004. Positive review of the "3001" screenplay.
* FilmJerk.com. Edward Havens, September 4, 2006. Positive review of the film.
* Scifi.com. Mike Szymanski, September 1, 2006. Review of an early edit; refers to the year 2974.
* Reel Film Reviews. David Nusair, September 1, 2006. Positive review.
* , Rumsey Taylor, January 2007. Positive review.
* Cinematical. Jette Kernion, Septembe 2, 2006. Positive review.
* Austin360.com. Sarah Lidner, September 1, 2006. Mixed review.
* LATimes.com. Carina Chocano, September 4, 2006. Positive review.
<!-- * The Onion A.V. Club. Nathan Rabin, September 6, 2006. Positive review. -- already cited -->
* Slate Magazine. Reihan Salam, September 29, 2006. Positive review.
==== External Links - Progress on cleanup ====
:Added back the still-working(!) Fox Video film scenes as External Links per WP:EL. Added ''Release'' external links back into the text where referenced.
:'''Question''' - is ] notable now? --] (]) 06:36, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

::Gee...this list of links isn't biased toward favorable reviews AT ALL! That is just what Misplaced Pages is all about...extremely one-sided articles. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 10:51, 19 January 2013 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:::Hey, awesome. You're welcome to add bad reviews from independent reliable sources to the list! --] (]) 06:27, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

==Release issues==
What about the claim that it bombed in test screenings? (needs to be googled around a bit to see where it originated. I find it rather common in tertiary sources) ] 12:34, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
:An carried a report from an ''anonymous'' reader who went to a UK screening. Not very citable, sadly. That reader never wrote anything anywhere else that I could find. It may be that Fox made screening viewers sign non-disclosures. --] (]) 06:59, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

== Brawndo ==

With Brawndo being released as a real soft drink, I'm thinking that it should get its own page. --] (]) 07:36, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

: I'm not sure if Brawndo is noteworthy enough to deserve its own page, but I think the product should be mentioned in this article. I tried to add a section about it, and someone thought I was blatantly advertising it (which I wasn't), and promptly removed my addition. (Which in fact was mostly a copy of part of the Rondo article, with references added.) I'd like to add the section on Brawndo again, but do not wish to do it unless others agree. (BTW, if anything is a blatent Brawndo ad, it is the link to Brawndo's website!) --] (]) 06:11, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

:: I discussed the deletion of Brawndo with loren.wilton, and I have tried to put up the reference in a less "advertising" method. I am not really satisified with my edits, so I hope someone will come and help improve the section. The issue I have is that I put Brawndo under a cult following, and also included info about the T-shirts. I think these are important to understand about the movie, but I'm not sure if that is the best heading... Oh well, I'm being bold :-) --] (]) 14:50, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

No source for GTAIV information and seemed like it was really reaching for a reference to Idiocracy just because GTA IV featured a drink that had electrolytes. <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 18:05, 12 May 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

: I wonder how to post any source for this information. This is very hard, as not many people have seen this movie, thus not getting the reference. All I can say is: play the game yourself if you don't believe me. Not that I don't understand the point of naming sources, but in some cases first-hand information without references *is* required, and completely fine too. Look at, for instance, the ]. Many of those have no references at all, still it's ok to add that info to WP because anyone watching the episode would get all the plot info without a problem.
:I just think that we could add this in here because for obvious reasons, nobody will mention this anywhere else on the net. It's a small detail of a big, big video game. Again, if you could tell me what kind of source you would require in order to believe me and just leave that edit in, I'll do my best to give you the source you need. --] (]) 22:44, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
::How about an image of it? --] (]) 23:12, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
:::As it was written in my original edit already: it's a radio ad in the game. As in, only sound. How should I post a picture of that? --] (]) 23:52, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

== Gross? ==

Current text indicates that gross revenue from the film was $400K on a budget of roughly $25 million. Granted it probably lost money but that much seems unlikely given non theater sales. Seems most likely that would be from the opening weekend or at most theatres only. ] (]) 01:23, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

: boxofficemojo.com indicates that rental revenue by 2007-02-18 was 9 million so it probably is approaching break-even, think I saw it after that. ] (]) 20:59, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

:: However, rottentomatoes says that after dropping off the top ten rentals, a title usually does another 60% so, in that case would be a net loss and appropriate text for the gross figure would be "~14 million USD". ] (]) 21:15, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

:::All these comments are assuming that the studio gets 100% of the money from box office and sales, and that there is no additional cost in producing and distributing the DVDs. DVD's don't make themselves, and stores don;t sell DVDs for free. It is VERY rare for a movie that bombs at the box office to recoup its losses from DVD and TV. Even most movies that almost break even when you factor in the box office just barely break even overall. After the first month or so, the studios get less and less of the box office earned. Not to mention...spending $25 million in 2005 to get a total of $25 million over the next 6-7 years is not really breaking even in a world where inflation is the norm. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 09:44, 18 January 2013 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== At some point, some well known bloggers will be considered notable ==

And the dead will rise from the grave. This was deleted: ''As with Judge's '']'', ''Idiocracy'' also gained many outspoken fans within the blogosphere, particularly among those bloggers who feel themselves to be on the outside of America's current corporate pop-culture.<ref>http://louisproyect.wordpress.com/2007/11/08/knocked-up-and-idiocracy/</ref>''

--] (]) 11:34, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

:Indeed, some already are considered notable. From what I can see, Mr Proyect is not. ] <sup>(]) (]) (])</sup> 11:57, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

==Superbowl Ritual==
I can't find a citation yet, but I know a number of people (including myself) watch Idiocracy instead of the Superbowl. When some newspaper or magazine finally runs a piece about this, perhaps we can add a bit about this to the Cult Following section. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 20:44, 4 February 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

==Etan Cohen==

Is Etan Cohen a pseudonym for Ethan Coen? Seems a bit of a coincidence. ] (]) 23:49, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

:Google for Etan Cohen and it should be quickly apparent that he's not Ethan Coen.--] (]) 13:12, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

==Idiocracy supports Eugenics?==

I'm not talking about the Nazi version of Eugenics, I'm talking about the idea that your height, personality, and even your intelligence can be passed down from your parents. If that is the case, then this movie seems to suppport the idea the idea that society can lower it's IQ if less intelligent people have more kids then intelligent people. Due to the no original content rule, I cannot add this in wiki, but if anyone finds an article relating this movie to Eugenics, I believe it should be mentioned in a 'controversy' section. <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 03:45, 27 March 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
{{hat|Politically-motivated breach of ] with no substantive contribution.}}
::There is only one Eugenics. There is no such thing as the "Nazi Eugenics" version and the "Liberalized feel good" version of Eugenics. Don't feel shame, its ok, your a Nazi like the rest of us who like the movie. (See Kyle) Haha, you lefties are such fools. I can enjoy the movie without believing in Eugenics, some of us Christian righty fundamentalists who don't take evolution hook line and sinker can enjoy the movie by replacing the genetic dumbing down with a culture dumbing down. Although clearly the movie is about genetic dumbing down, thats Eugenics. Lefties are so dumb, and this movie proves it. Is the Director a registered Democrat?] (]) 13:33, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

:The movie seems to supports the idea of ], the evolutionary weakening of a species. The idea of eugenics is hinted at toward the end with the time machine depicting the defeat of Nazi Germany, and stating the end of world war II was also the end of national socialism like ideologies, known for their eugenic rhetoric. This seems to indicate that the defeat of nazism, and subsequently eugenics, was a key moment in the movies hypothetical history.
:The beginning of the movie hints at a genetic (rather than cultural) explanation for the dumbing down of mankind with the 140 IQ couple dying childless while the white trash multiplies.
:There's also a hint at a genetic explanation toward the end, with Joe and Rita having 3 children (who are the smartest of the world), while Frito fathers 32 of the worlds most stupidest children.
:There may also be a jest at environmentalist theories with Joe stating in a speech that children need to read more books and be intellectually stimulated and how that would cure the world of its current idiocy, while the audience gazes at him dumbstruck.
:As it is the movie gives mixed signals, with the narrator giving a clear genetic explanation at the start of the movie, Joe giving an environmental explanation near the end of the movie, and only the slightest nod of the head toward a support of Eugenics that is probably too vague to be notable for the article. --] (]) 00:01, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

:: The user that refused to sign on before editing is clearly delusional. Where have I stated my political beliefs? What makes you believe I'm a Democrat? (hint: I'm not) Has all the debating on public forums made you believe that anyone that doesn't share your precise form of belief a democrat? I bet you see a liberal conspiracy in this edit as well. Anywho, since the Nazis believed that Eugenics justified exterminating the Jews, I think there is a clear difference between that and the one I mentioned above. Eugenics in general has a negative stigma with many liberals, so I never knew there was a "liberal feel good" version, whatever that means. --] (]) 05:27, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

:I'm pretty sure that the movie itself stated flatly at the very beginning what its premise was, which is: contrary to popular belief, evolution does not converge to perfection, and certainly has no built-in bias to intelligence; it always favors whatever is most conducive to further reproduction. This is not by "design" (intelligent or otherwise); it's an observation of fact, as solid and impartial as the observation of gravity.
:Note also that this fact does not ''necessarily'' favor the survival of a species; it's quite possible that traits that are pro-propagation in the short term will lead to the extinction of a species in the long term. This is what's happening in ''Idiocracy'': the successful breeders have become dominant in the 500 years that Joe has been asleep, but it's all about to collapse.
:But yeah, in the end it's Just a Movie(TM), so you can feel free to cheerfully ignore any of the above and enjoy the show.--] (]) 13:30, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

:I should also mention that "the idea that your height, personality, and even your intelligence can be passed down from your parents" isn't ]; it's ], and pretty well proven. Height can be pretty obviously tied to genetics—dwarfism, for example, is a classic example of dominant and recessive genes—but many personality traits have now been mapped to specific genes, too.
:Eugenics is the more abhorrent idea that the gene pool should be actively cleansed, especially by bumping people off that you don't happen to like. The annihilation of the Jews was really less about eugenics and more that Hitler thought they were tarded and their shit was fucked up, more or less, quite early in his life; my impression was that he came up with eugenics as an excuse to act on his irrational hatred long after that. But if you want to know more about the Nazis and eugenics, read up on ] and prepare to be revolted.
:In any event, any connection between genocide and genetics that the Nazis attempted to make does not invalidate the reality of genetics or natural selection; many other otherwise sterling concepts have been twisted to horrific ends as well.--] (]) 18:38, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Enough with the feel good double-talk liberalism. The movie is based entirely on reverse-Eugenics, and Eugenics goes hand in hand with Darwin and Evolution, they are inseperable, and inseperable means you can't worm your way out of feeling guilty about enjoying a movie based on Eugenics. *points finger* You are a Nazi, hehe stupid liberals.] (]) 22:10, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

--] (]) 05:22, 22 April 2009 (UTC)Dude, wouldn't your opinions be of more use elsewhere? None of that stuff is at all relevent to the actual purpose of this page, i.e. to improve the article.
{{hab}}
: Way late to the party, I realize, but what you’re talking about isn’t ], it’s ].

== Social order and speech ==

I noticed that the higher one goes up the "food chain" in their society, the more "normal" sounding speech becomes. I.e. the President sounds the least retarded in their society. This may be my imagination, but if it is true, it shows more than a passing thought was given to the film's language and social classes. ] (]) 02:56, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
:Well, yes, that is pretty much the point of the movie. ] (]) 04:18, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

: Actually, I think the most normal guy was the CEO of Brawndo. But Freto, for all his faults, was also to some extent "with it" :) <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 05:36, 21 June 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Political correctness ==

Opening paragraph suggests that amongst other things it is a ''satire on political correctness'', however after watching it a few times I struggle to see where that aspect of the satire is. I suggest that this be removed, unless someone can come up with supporting evidence. ] (]) 21:54, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

I agree, if you want to include 'political correctness' as satirized in the film give a definition of 'PC' and an example of how the movie comments on it. MikeJudge Fan <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 05:59, 10 July 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

The first paragraph is biased against FOX. just because they don't promote a movie doesn't mean they hate it. This paragraph seems to attempt to make the case that FOX sabotaged this movie. Reference please!! <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 06:18, 30 July 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

{{susbt:cclean|url=http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/synopsis}}

==Plot copyvio issue==
On 14 Jan 2010 the plot section of the article was tagged as a possible copyvio of an IMDB synopsis. This article is no longer listed at ] but there is no indication of administrator action on the issue. It is possible that the article was never listed at ]. Nevertheless, I have reverted to before the copyvio tag was placed (there were no substantive intervening edits). My reason for doing so is that the IMDB synopsis appears to be a copy of this article. The IMDB synopsis is listed as last being edited one year ago. That synopsis appears, verbatim, in this article going back much further than that. It appears someone copy/pasted the plot synopsis from Misplaced Pages into an IMDB synopsis. Rather than this section being a copyright violation, it appears that the IMDB synopsis was copied this article without proper GFDL attribution. I have restored the plot section without the copyvio tag. ] (]) 01:27, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
:The article is no longer listed because I cleared it after removing the plot section, which is in fact an administrative action. While the IMDB synopsis has not been edited in a year, no indication demonstrates that the Misplaced Pages article predates IMDB. Last but not least, restoring dubious material without ''first'' verifying its origins and discussing it here is a misapplication of ].

:Any further attempts to reintroduce the text verbatim has to be argued here, with definite evidence about the precedence. ] (]) 07:33, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

::Hi. I am also an admin who also works ]. ], who has limited time online today, asked me if I would pick up this investigation, since he said that there is evidence that the infringement may be reversed.

::First, the dating at IMDb is not in itself definitive. Unless a subscriber to the "Pro" version is able to access the history, we can't know how extensive the last update might have been or what preceded it. He could have added a sentence or cleaned up a few grammatical errors.

::However, the wayback machine is being cooperative today (would that it would always), and while it's only showing ''one'' archived version of this page, it is a very helpful version. The plot summary at IMDb looked like on 12/18/2007. On 12/16/2007, it looked like in our article. Since there is a several month margin of error on Wayback, I went back a few extra months in our article just to be sure. In July 2007, it looked like . Not exactly the same, but with substance enough to strongly suggest natural evolution here.

::It seems that reverse infringement is likely, so I'll restore the plot summary as it was. Thank you for bringing up the issue, but do, please, be careful about restoring text without positively verifying reverse infringement. Copyright is not an area is not an area where we can afford to make many assumptions. :) --] <sup>]</sup> 13:04, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

::Jesus Christ! For a dark comedy movie like Idiocracy, there are not many ways you could write a synopsis about it. There is really not much in-between-the-lines analysis that is "inferred" in the synopsis, given its nature as a description of the plot rather than being a review of the movie. So independently written synopses are unlikely to have significant differences. Most differences would be in manner of omission and stylistic emphasis, nothing that in of itself worthy of even a $300 lawsuit. Is it a coincidence that the "Reception" section has long had more citations than the rest of the article? I think not. Opinions will vary and contradict, but the plot is what it is. People can add citations to the synopsis if there is evidence in reliable third-party sources. I believe most people who added to the plot section watched the movie themselves, so in any case that would be a violation of the movie's copyright if it were not supported by Fair Use.''<u>''']''' <sup>''']'''</sup></u> 13:39, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

:::People can watch the film and provide a summary of it as long as they are only descriptive about it. This is backed by ]: "Any interpretation of primary source material requires a reliable secondary source for that interpretation. A primary source can be used only to make descriptive statements that can be verified by any educated person without specialist knowledge. For example, an article about a novel may cite passages to describe the plot, but any interpretation needs a secondary source." There are also guidelines related to this at ]. Really, the problem that the summary has currently is that it is too long, being over 1,200 words. Per ], it should be concise, like the "Plot" section at ], which is at the short end of the spectrum. ] (]) 13:48, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

:::], there are an amazing lot of ways to write about something. English is a very word rich language. :) Copyright problems enter in when a synopsis follows too closely on the language (and sometimes structure, if not straightforward) of a previously published synopsis or when the synopsis is detailed enough to constitute a ] of the original (at which point it is no longer fair use). Both are forbidden by ]. Inference is not necessary; factual descriptions are also subject to copyright, as long as these meet the deliberately low threshold of creativity under US law. We don't evaluate copyright problems on the basis of whether or not a lawsuit is likely, which is good practice, since the Wikimedia Foundation is vulnerable to considerations of the ''whole'' and not just a single article. What is ] in one article may not be if present in a hundred. --] <sup>]</sup> 14:03, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

== ] ==

IMHO this paradox is more than relevant - it's the main thesis stated at the beginning of the film. Perhaps it belongs integrated into the main text, rather than as a ''see also.'' --] (]) 03:02, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

== Citation author order ==

I'm for the conversion to templates, and finished what Horkana started. Question is, author last-first, or first-first? I prefer last-first.--] (]) 01:38, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

== Deletion of 'other stories', reversion, off-page discussion. ==

''The following discussion was started by ] on ]'s following , in which Lexein was not involved. Since no discussion occurred on this page by any of the editing parties, a 3rd Opinion is welcome, if only based on the extant discussion.''
--] (]) 02:59, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

=== Idiocracy ===

It's not usual or helpful to simply DELETE an entire section while an editor is working to improve it. You don't indicate whether you made a good faith effort to find sources yourself - this is a vital part of ]. If you suggest discussion, you should actually start the discussion. The <nowiki>{{dubious}}</nowiki> tag will also help move the article toward improvement. Arguments should not take place through reverts and edit summaries. I do not entirely disagree with your points, just the method. Please reread ], ], ], and ]. --] (]) 06:09, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

First, coming to lecture me about a bunch of wikilinks is not the way to start out. I've been around here as long as you have. Using live space to experiment with the addition isn't the way to go. That's what the sandbox is for. That's what sub-pages to your user page is for. Since you like linking to policies so much, You're allegations of ownership and Idontlike it are lacking in the basic tenant of ] and bordering on ownership yourself. Further, you might consider re-reading ]. Now, if you'd like to stop this silliness and actually discuss the issue, I'd be happy to do so on the talk page. ] (]) 19:40, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

: Sandboxing (which you didn't suggest to the other editor) isn't <s>not</s> on for sections that have been with an article for a while. In-place improvement is entirely appropriate. Clear suggestions (and edits) are more productive than deletion.
:I don't find applying ''both'' sides of ] to be "silly." I stand by my comments above in their entirety, as civil and AGF. You suggested the discussion but still have not started it. Though I did suggest reading materials, those were pamphlets on the table, not hurtling phonebooks. Some folks had never seen 'em, and have in the past thanked me. If you didn't like ], please don't(!) look at ]. --] (]) 20:29, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

:*Apparently you completely missed what I said. First, it doesn't matter how long something has been there. I can go to numerous movie articles and find "in pop culture" sections that have been there for a long period of time. That doesn't make them appropriate. Second, adding OR, regardless of how long the section has been there is not appropriate and just labelling it as possible OR doesn't excuse it. Of course it's OR and OR doesn't belong. Period. Giving me a litany of policies that I'm not running afoul of isn't civil or AGF, nor are your baseless allegations. Personally, I loved Idiocracy. There is more truth in it than people realize. However, that doesn't mean I can insert my own OR. ] is clear: "No original research" is one of three core content policies. There is no exception that I've seen saying "it's ok to leave it in while under revision" Have you seen that exception? ] (]) 20:45, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

: As ''I'' said, "I do not entirely disagree with your points, just the method." Reading ] - the deleter has an obligation to make a good faith effort to find a source to support that which is about to be deleted; nothing more than a good faith effort. Lots of editors do: it's a good guideline, and a good guideline within it. The history of that Idiocracy section is that many, many (non-notable, non-RS) sources had cumulatively pointed out the obvious link between Idiocracy, Kornbluth, and Huxley, in different combinations. The section was started as soon as there was the slightest shred of scholarly and media support for the notion. That's not necessarily OR, and you know it. It's arguably not, to point out what's been sourced. When you yell "synth" it's helpful to point out which specific words you despise, and even just delete. I would support that. Wholesale deletion is utterly utterly useless, and flies in the face of ongoing, ], ]. Deletions should be reserved for vandalism, obvious nonsense, falsehoods, violations of BLP, etc. and a host of other reasons; not for this. Of course Misplaced Pages's voice should not be used to speak original research, but "stories of time travel to a dystopian future are not new" followed by a short list of well-known notable stories and their publication dates, and reviews which support the "time travel" and "dystopian future" portions of the claim, doesn't seem at all to rise to the level of OR, to me, at all. --] (]) 21:16, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

:I would like to move this entire thread, including your responses, ordered in time, to Talk:Idiocracy, to request ]. Ok by you? --] (]) 22:29, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

::*Just do whatever you want. You're totally missing what I said. I quit. ] (]) 01:34, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
:::Copy, don't move please. A clear and unbiased consensus must be formed before removing the section, on the creation of which certain editors have worked hard enough. ] (]) 03:22, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
{|style="border-top:solid thin lightgrey;background:transparent;padding:4px;"
|] '''Response to ]''':
|-
|style="padding-left:0.6cm"|Hi, I'd be happy to look into this and offer a third opinion, but first two questions: 1) As one of the two disputants in this section, Niteshift36, by "I quit" do you mean to say that the dispute has been resolved (on your end at least)? and 2) are there more than two editors currently involved in this dispute (wherever the bulk of the content of it may be currently located)? Either case may rule out a further 3O response. Regards, ] &#9775; ] 03:32, 7 October 2010 (UTC)—] &#9775; ] 03:32, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
|}
*To be honest, no, it shouldn't be interpreted as the debate being resolved. I am just not in the mood to get unwarranted lectures about ], ], ], and ] from an editor who even went so far as to suggest my edits were because I just didn't like the movie. I made an attempt to explain why I didn't think that live article space shouldn't be used as a sandbox and about synth and got more wikilinks back that didn't apply to what I had said. That indicated to me that either he missed the point or something. I'm sure he has the best intentions with the addition. But even going beyond the whole synth line of discussion, I don't why it would seem ok to put an entry in and then label your own entry with an OR tag. OR is prohibited. If you consider it OR yourself, then you shouldn't be inserting it. What on earth makes it so pressing to insert something into an article about a 4 year old movie that you'd ignore the OR prohibition? Frankly, I'm getting so sick of how things are going on around this place (not this article), I just don't have the inclination to "fight" about it. Hence my "Just do whatever you want" response. ] (]) 03:56, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

::Okay. I'm not sure I'm understanding, from the comments in this section, what exactly is at the center of the dispute regarding the content of this article. Could I ask each of you to try to express as ''briefly'' and precisely as possible what you are disagreeing about specifically with regard to this article? Thanks, ] &#9775; ] 05:58, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

;Statement by ]: ...It centers around this . I believe that, as it stands, it is ] and ]. Lexein even labeled part of it as OR. My position has been simple: Live space shouldn't be used for experimentation. While Misplaced Pages is always a work in progress, that doesn't mean the work needs to be done in the article, particularly when adding OR into the mix. Simply put it on a user page, work on it until it meets the criteria for inclusion, then add it. Also, I mentioned that the 2 sources used are questionable. The "Atlantic Free Press" is written by "registered users" and lacks the editorial oversight that ] requires. IIRC, Lew Rockwell.com has been rejected at RSN before. As I said above, I have no doubt the editor has the best of intentions. The SYNTH issue can be discussed/debated when there is a finished product to discuss. I'm not rejecting inclusion, I'm saying delay inclusion until you have what you want to include. ] (]) 06:12, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

;Statement by ]:
It centers around wholesale deletion, deprecation of a non-blog source as: "a blog that probably wouldn't pas RS" , and all the fallout from that. I took a non-editing stance on this section, as soon as it was deleted. My position is that ''deleting'' the section, the improper ''deprecation'' of sources resulting in their inadequate replacement, and ''defacing'' with OR and/or SYNTH tags are all unmerited - neither "OR" nor "SYNTH" have been adequately proven. No original facts, nor original synthesis is offered ''in the basic statements made by the sources.'' The conclusions should of course be rewritten to ''avoid'' SYNTH. So here are '''four''' better approaches, which are more in keeping with ]:
# Rewrite or indeed revert to prior versions to avoid ''perceived'' ] per that guideline.
# Help to find improved sources per ], to wit: ''It has always been ] (]) to make reasonable efforts to find sources yourself that support such material, and cite them'',
# Actually move the disputed sentence(s), including sources, to Talk, and actually ''start the discussion'', as opposed to in the edit summary after ''two'' deletions. ] squarely places the burden of discussion on both editors. I failed to get Niteshift36, as the deleting editor, to discuss here.
# Or just boldly selectively remove the sole offending sentence which appears to be unsourced and is presently tagged OR. That sentence was tagged by an editor who did not write or add the material, and merely differentiated it from the sourced, non-OR, non-SYNTH material, full stop.

Here are some ], by the way, found in, oh, four seconds.
: (subscription required) Steve Sailer, , archived by the author . Ties Idiocracy to Kornbluth to dysgenics.
: Aldous Huxley, 1958. (Rosetta Books, 2001). Ties Brave New World to dysgenics(p. 15) & future dystopia (p.1).
: etc.

It boils down to this:
* Was OR or SYNTH? Both? Neither? In progress? Salvagable? In need of expansion?
* What about the version prior to ?
--] (]) 16:01, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

===Third opinion===
I haven't seen ''Idiocracy'' myself yet (except near the beginning where a military official is giving a presentation that segue-ways into his "original research" on '']'', lol!:), but it reminds me of the ] film '']''. The lead section of the article on that film presently contains the line: "The film contains several plot points which parody or spoof several well-known works of science-fiction, most notably ]' novel '']'' and '']'' by ]." It seems to me that something similar is being done in this article, and in this case is being done with at least some attempt to provide something like a "reliable source" for it. Whether those sources are the ''best'' or most "reliable" ones to use in this case seems a valid question.<br />
(Just wanted to comment to indicate that I am considering a third opinion on this issue, but am not sure I have arrived at one yet; I have to run now, but will comment further in hopefully a few hours' time. Thank you both for your statements above. Regards! :) ] &#9775; ] 21:15, 7 October 2010 (UTC)


*See, that sort of "found in oh 4 seconds" kind of sarcasm is exactly why I just left it alone. When you are writing your own research (and even label it as OR), thinking that someone else is going to go do your research is absurd. It's not like we're verifying a birthdate or something. And I stand by my assessment of the sources and feel confident that if I took it to RSN, I'd find out that I wasn't alone. Love how you have to worry about typos and all the other snarkiness in the response. This is exactly why I didn't want to get sucked back into this. ] (]) 21:48, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

::* Stop it. That's twice you've made allegations involving me: if you think ''I'' wrote or labeled OR, quote it, or post a diff. I ''think'' you'll find you're in error. ] - I didn't write it, I've just been on both sides of it. --] (]) 03:14, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
:::*Oh for cying out loud. Here is a molehill, can you make a mountain out of it? You told me to tag it. I did. Telling me to tag is is admitting it is OR. Whatever. Will it make you happy if I say you didn't personally add the tag? There. Done. Now can you move on to the actual issue? If you want to keep notpicking silly stuff, then you can start by apologzing for your allegations regarding ownership and "idontlikeit". No, don't bother. You won't mean it and I don't want to listen to you argue about how it's not uncivil. ] (]) 05:13, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
:*In that case, my opinion is that we should run it through ] before considering this further. ] &#9775; ] 00:41, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

::*] was not the basis for the OR or SYNTH claims, so ] is a distraction here. The basis of this RF3O was OR and SYNTH. Also note, RS are found above, so RSN will fail. --] (]) 03:14, 8 October 2010 (UTC) '''''edit:''''' ''(sorry, I meant "RSN will fail to support a section deletion") --] (]) 23:28, 9 October 2010 (UTC))
:::*First off, you can't limit a 3rd opinion to only opining about specific issues. Second, if you don't have a RS, then it's OR or fails ]. Items from a RS can be formed into SYNTH. When I addressed RS, I was addressing the sources actually being used in the article. I could care less what you trot out on the talk page. If those two sources stay in the article, I may just decide to take it to RSN. I've been there enough to feel confident that the first would fail and the second, lewrockwell.com has been discussed at RSN several times and the opinion there, aside from economic issues, is not usually very good. ] (]) 05:04, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
:::::Assuming for the moment that that ''is'' what would happen at RSN with these sources – can you find any other sources for the substance of the text in question that ''would'' be acceptable RSs (by consensus), Lexein? ] &#9775; ] 05:15, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
::::::Sorry for the lag and any confusion. See '''''edit:''''' above. Here are the two solid ] mentioned above which properly support claims in the section (in addition to one of the prior removed sources, and one of the current sources):
::::::: (subscription required) Steve Sailer, , archived by the author . Ties Idiocracy to Kornbluth to dysgenics.
::::::: Aldous Huxley, 1958. (Rosetta Books, 2001). Ties Brave New World to dysgenics(p. 15) & future dystopia (p.1).
::::::--] (]) 23:28, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
:::::::Ok, I don't really have any problem with the first one (I see it does make a connection between this film and "dystopia"), and I could even see from there the second becoming relevant, too (though ''this'' article is neither the ] nor the ] article, and there's no source yet directly relating this movie to Huxley, so only very brief mention, if any, is acceptable here in my view). Let's assume those sources are reliable enough (and if not then let's go to RSN). Is there a problem that still needs to be addressed with the wording of the disputed text now, Niteshift? ] &#9775; ] 01:00, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

== Similar Stories ==

I just wanted to point out that in Aldous Huxley's, "Brave New World", no one is in suspended animation as the Similar Stories section reads. John, or, "the Savage", enters after being born naturally, which is related. As it is it describes the plot of, "Brave New World", incorrectly.
] (]) 04:24, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Only time for a quick read here, but Henry Kutner's "Marching Morons" doesn't seem to be mentioned among similar stories. The similarity is so close that I would fear a copyright infringement lawsuit, were I involved in the film. Certainly a prominent mention of this story--and link to its Misplaced Pages entry--is merited. ] (]) 05:09, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
:Good luck getting any reliable, independent source to survive the sort of battle I've been putting up with, as exemplified above and in the discussion archives. --] (]) 08:27, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
:When the film entered theatrical release, it never played on any screen closer to New York City than one in Montreal. While it was in production I personally notified the agency - in New York - responsible for the Kornbluth literary estate (because "The Marching Morons" was, at the time of ''Idiocracy'''s production and release, still under copyright protection) that the film constituted a violation of the author's intellectual property rights. I was told by my contact at the agency that they hadn't heard anything about the film before they'd received my call. Might could be that the extremely limited release of this movie was advised by the production company's legal department, trying to walk a tightrope between contractual obligations to Mike Judge and the likelihood of yet another copyright infringement lawsuit. ] (]) 16:29, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
:Interesting - any published (print or electronic) reliable source for what you've written? --] (]) 21:39, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

::Ditto. That would be a solid addition to the article if we could source it. ] (]) 21:48, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

==Uniformly stupid human society devoid of individual responsibility or consequences?==
First of all, great, great article. I think every plot point in this movie is so insightful and every character so archetypal that I'd hate to delete any of it.

I wouldn't say it's a human society devoid of individual responsibility and consequences, though. There are definitely consequences for, say, "talking like a fag". More like what's missing is abstract thought, intellectual curiosity and coherent notions of justice. I'm thinking the defense lawyer condemning his own client for interrupting "Ow My Balls", the Brawndo conversation and subjecting people to "Rehabilitations". It's men in the process of turning back into chimpanzees.--] (]) 00:40, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Added "social responsibility". Thinking the woman who's put in the custody of Carl's Jr because she doesn't have money to feed her children, and the failure to preserve the knowledge necessary to keep society functional.--] (]) 01:08, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

== Best encyclopedia prose ever ==

:''Fox might be shying away from the cautionary tale about low-intelligence dysgenics, because the company did not want to offend its viewers''

Excellent. ] (]) 23:28, 23 April 2012 (UTC)


== A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion ==
::T'was the source, not us. We shall pass along your approbation. --] (]) 03:33, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
* ]<!-- COMMONSBOT: discussion | 2022-12-12T18:22:37.961162 | Idiocracy (30639266695).jpg -->
Participate in the deletion discussion at the ]. —] (]) 18:22, 12 December 2022 (UTC)


== Should be protected? ==
== ; whereupon, the author sucks. ==


Reverted a defacement claiming it was a 'documentary'. How do I propose locking a page? ] (]) 20:16, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
Reading this article is painful. Someone who owns a dictionary and knows some "smart people words" clearly wrote this, trying to sound intelligent by sprinkling in words like "whereupon" and "the latter" (used incorrectly, I might add). Someone with an *actual* understanding of how English works should give it a once over. --] (]) 07:52, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
:Thanks. As you know, there's no single editor or author, and we do need more, namely you. Give more editing a shot. I think some editors try on airs partially as a joke, especially at this article. Because the encyclopedia can be edited by anyone, there's a chance that someone ill-taught in the proper use of ''whereupon'' and other embellishments, and not familiar with ], will edit an article. You can be sure that the offenses you noted here are minor, compared to (since reverted).
:I've noticed an angry tone in your . Misplaced Pages isn't the cause of your suffering, nor is it your whipping boy. We're all here to build and improve the encyclopedia, and we (most of us) try to do it without harsh rhetoric or snark, though we are (most of us) quite experienced and talented in their use. It was, I think, only the ''tone'' of your remarks which led to their slow adoption. --] (]) 00:08, 4 October 2012 (UTC)


:] is over thataway, but FWIW when I look at the edit history I'm not seeing a very strong case for protecting it at this time. Cheers. ] (]) 02:58, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
== Jackson Browne ==


== Character list ==
So Jackson Brown has an opinion about the movie? Why should it be included here? He's a singer that watched a movie. There is nothing notable about it. ] (]) 21:01, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
:I agree. What does ] think about '']''? Does ] like '']''? How about ]'s take on '']''? Good grief, who cares? ] (]) 03:08, 20 February 2013 (UTC)


Why do the characters' descriptions describe their positions at the end of the movie? ] (]) 15:05, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
== Op-ed piece ==


== Categorize under Films about time travel ==
An op-ed writer uses this movie to illustrate her opinions on the Republican party. How does that tell us about the movie? It tells us that the op-ed writer has an opinion about Republicans. Nor does it "illustrate the enduring impact of the movie". It doesn't show and IMPACT by the movie at all. How did the movie change anything? It didn't. I liked the movie, but this notion that it somehow "impacted" the national political scene is overselling. It was a convenient illustration point by an opinion writer to further her opinions of Republicans. the use isn't '''about the movie''', it's about a political agenda. Further, the notion that "it's a valid opinion" (valid to whom?) doesn't wash. Just because someone wrote something doesn't make it notable, relevant or relieve us from the standards of ]. ] (]) 15:39, 21 February 2013 (UTC)


While there is no ''actual'' time travel in Idiocracy, it is an important part of the plot and a prevalent theme of the film. The phrase "time machine" is currently used in the article four times.
No, it isn't. The columnist specifies that both liberals and conservatives are to blame, and while there are far more viewpoints in the U.S., those are the most powerful in Congress itself. Typically, the Democratic Party is typically identified as liberal, while the Republican Party is typically considered conservative in viewpoint. There is no agenda in the column, and your repeated removal of this mention not only takes away a very key illustration of the film's continuing relevance in our culture, but suggests you have an agenda of your own. Further attempts to remove this mention will result in rollback and vandalism warnings.
Given that ] is described as listing "the titles of films that include the theme of time travel," Idiocracy belongs in the category. ] (]) 14:40, 9 September 2024 (UTC)


:It's difficult for me to believe that that category is intended to include films in which no time travel occurs. That said, are there other films within that category that feature no time travel? ] (]) 17:46, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
ETA: I reexamined WP:UNDUE, and based on its tenets, you are so far off base it's ridiculous. Stop now.]&nbsp;<sup>]</sup>&nbsp;<sub style="margin-left: -4.3ex">]</sub> 18:44, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
::I don't know if there are others in the list that don't include time travel (or only include suspended animation). But I don't see how that should exclude a film from a list, given that the list is described as "This category lists the titles of films that include the theme of time travel." If that description is inadequate, and the category should only include films in which time travel occurs, then maybe the description should be revised. Though, of course, then we'd really want to be sure that there are no others on the list, and that's not really the subject to discus here.
::I just wanted to mention that Idiocracy takes the #2 spot on .
::It also makes top 10 in a poll of . That's user generated, but shows that many people think of Idiocracy as a time travel movie.
::And it's #9 in . ] (]) 03:40, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::If another reasonably experienced editor chimes in supporting the inclusion of the category (you're welcome to consider asking at ], I won't push back against it, but until that time I maintain that time travel isn't so much a theme of the film as it is a plot device used to get to the point in time that the majority of the plot focuses upon. ] (]) 05:23, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::I'll try asking there. But just to clarify for anyone else reading this, my argument is not that it should be included because time travel (actually, suspended animation) is a "plot device used to get to the point in time." If that were all, I would agree that it's not a time travel movie. It's because once they're in the future, they spend a majority of the film on an adventure trying to go back in time. ] (]) 13:34, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::FWIW, I agree with you that the underlying issue may be that the category itself needs clarification. But I see we're now discussing at ] (though it might have been better to link to this discussion), and will continue the discussion there. ] (]) 16:35, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::I guess the question is... is sleeping really time travel? Is the story of Rip Van Winkle time travel? Is the story of Sleeping Beauty time travel? Futurama... is kind of borderline, as Fry sleeps due to a cryogenic accident (later ] to have been intentionally caused by an alien, Nibbler, who knew they needed Fry in the future to prevent destruction), but also because in it the professor actually invents real time travel. My initial feeling is that Idiocracy isn't really a time travel film, especially as the time travel isn't intentional -- it was only supposed to be a short-term experiment.. waking up in the distant future is due to a comedy of errors and neglect. ] (]) 19:57, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::::Again, I don't think the suspended animation is what makes Idiocracy a time travel film. As I said above:
:::::::"But just to clarify for anyone else reading this, my argument is not that it should be included because time travel (actually, suspended animation) is a "plot device used to get to the point in time." If that were all, I would agree that it's not a time travel movie. ''It's because once they're in the future, they spend a majority of the film on an adventure trying to go back in time.''" ] (]) 20:02, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 20:58, 8 October 2024

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Idiocracy article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
Article policies
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL
Archives: 1, 2Auto-archiving period: 3 months 
This article is rated B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
WikiProject iconFilm: American
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Film. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see lists of open tasks and regional and topical task forces. To use this banner, please refer to the documentation. To improve this article, please refer to the guidelines.FilmWikipedia:WikiProject FilmTemplate:WikiProject Filmfilm
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by the American cinema task force.
WikiProject iconScience Fiction Low‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Science Fiction, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of science fiction on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Science FictionWikipedia:WikiProject Science FictionTemplate:WikiProject Science Fictionscience fiction
LowThis article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject iconComedy Mid‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Comedy, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of comedy on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ComedyWikipedia:WikiProject ComedyTemplate:WikiProject ComedyComedy
MidThis article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject icon20th Century Studios Low‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject 20th Century Studios, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 20th Century Studios and its affiliated companies on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.20th Century StudiosWikipedia:WikiProject 20th Century StudiosTemplate:WikiProject 20th Century Studios20th Century Studios
LowThis article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject iconUnited States: Cinema Low‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States
LowThis article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by WikiProject Film - American cinema task force (assessed as Low-importance).

To-do list for Idiocracy: edit · history · watch · refresh · Updated 2007-04-12


There are no active tasks for this page
  • Add a few small screenshots to illustrate the plot.
  • Expand the review section including the reviewers' analysis of the film.
  • Somehow dig up more production details - FilmFX?

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 18:22, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

Should be protected?

Reverted a defacement claiming it was a 'documentary'. How do I propose locking a page? Fredirc (talk) 20:16, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

WP:RFPP is over thataway, but FWIW when I look at the edit history I'm not seeing a very strong case for protecting it at this time. Cheers. DonIago (talk) 02:58, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Character list

Why do the characters' descriptions describe their positions at the end of the movie? Daytman (talk) 15:05, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

Categorize under Films about time travel

While there is no actual time travel in Idiocracy, it is an important part of the plot and a prevalent theme of the film. The phrase "time machine" is currently used in the article four times. Given that Category:Films about time travel is described as listing "the titles of films that include the theme of time travel," Idiocracy belongs in the category. FriendlyPedant (talk) 14:40, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

It's difficult for me to believe that that category is intended to include films in which no time travel occurs. That said, are there other films within that category that feature no time travel? DonIago (talk) 17:46, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
I don't know if there are others in the list that don't include time travel (or only include suspended animation). But I don't see how that should exclude a film from a list, given that the list is described as "This category lists the titles of films that include the theme of time travel." If that description is inadequate, and the category should only include films in which time travel occurs, then maybe the description should be revised. Though, of course, then we'd really want to be sure that there are no others on the list, and that's not really the subject to discus here.
I just wanted to mention that Idiocracy takes the #2 spot on The Guardian's 2023 top 20 list of time travel movies.
It also makes top 10 in a poll of time travel comedies on IMDB. That's user generated, but shows that many people think of Idiocracy as a time travel movie.
And it's #9 in Screen Rant's 2023 top 15 time travel movies list. FriendlyPedant (talk) 03:40, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
If another reasonably experienced editor chimes in supporting the inclusion of the category (you're welcome to consider asking at WT:FILM, I won't push back against it, but until that time I maintain that time travel isn't so much a theme of the film as it is a plot device used to get to the point in time that the majority of the plot focuses upon. DonIago (talk) 05:23, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
I'll try asking there. But just to clarify for anyone else reading this, my argument is not that it should be included because time travel (actually, suspended animation) is a "plot device used to get to the point in time." If that were all, I would agree that it's not a time travel movie. It's because once they're in the future, they spend a majority of the film on an adventure trying to go back in time. FriendlyPedant (talk) 13:34, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
FWIW, I agree with you that the underlying issue may be that the category itself needs clarification. But I see we're now discussing at WT:FILM (though it might have been better to link to this discussion), and will continue the discussion there. DonIago (talk) 16:35, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
I guess the question is... is sleeping really time travel? Is the story of Rip Van Winkle time travel? Is the story of Sleeping Beauty time travel? Futurama... is kind of borderline, as Fry sleeps due to a cryogenic accident (later retconned to have been intentionally caused by an alien, Nibbler, who knew they needed Fry in the future to prevent destruction), but also because in it the professor actually invents real time travel. My initial feeling is that Idiocracy isn't really a time travel film, especially as the time travel isn't intentional -- it was only supposed to be a short-term experiment.. waking up in the distant future is due to a comedy of errors and neglect. Centerone (talk) 19:57, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
Again, I don't think the suspended animation is what makes Idiocracy a time travel film. As I said above:
"But just to clarify for anyone else reading this, my argument is not that it should be included because time travel (actually, suspended animation) is a "plot device used to get to the point in time." If that were all, I would agree that it's not a time travel movie. It's because once they're in the future, they spend a majority of the film on an adventure trying to go back in time." FriendlyPedant (talk) 20:02, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
Categories: