Talk:Second Chechen War: Difference between revisions

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	Removed an questionable comment without source "most of the attacks were carried out against military forces" and replaced with link to specific attacks.		Removed an questionable comment without source "most of the attacks were carried out against military forces" and replaced with link to specific attacks.

	== ~~Image~~ ~~caption~~ ~~incorrect?~~ ==		== Marked as assassinated ==
	There's an image captured "Grozny, the capital city of Chechnya, in March 1995 during the Second Russo-Chechen War", showing the destroyed city of presumably Grozny. The image is confusing: it appears in an article about the Second Chechen War, taking place in 1999 and 2000, printed next to a paragraph about the ''Second'' Battle of Grozny, also having taken place in those years. Either it's an image of destroyed Grozny during the First Chechen War and thus doesn't belong in this article, or it's a photograph of Grozny during the Second Chechen War, which makes date stated in the caption impossible. Either way, the caption is definitely wrong. Am I just confused?
	] (]) 09:51, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

			I propose to mark Rizvan Akhmadov and Gaidar Gadzhiyev as assassinated in the info box. Dokka Umarov and Sulim Yamadayev were also assassinated, albeit outside of the war. ] (]) 01:02, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
	== A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion ==
	The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
	* ]<!-- COMMONSBOT: speedy \| 2022-04-04T13:07:15.038523 \| Second Russo-Chechen war.Mira street. February 6, 2000 Grozny fell.webp -->
	You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —] (]) 13:07, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

			== Nonexistent first sentence ==
	== A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion ==
	The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
	* ]<!-- COMMONSBOT: discussion \| 2022-04-04T15:37:07.276226 \| Second Russo-Chechen war.Mira street. February 6, 2000 Grozny fell.webp -->
	Participate in the deletion discussion at the ]. —] (]) 15:37, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

			The beginning of the article goes nowhere. ] (]) 17:32, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
	== Deleting information ==

			::Fixed. ] (]) 23:07, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
	I am going to post my sources, The New York Times and a research paper from Tufts University that itself quotes John Dunlap, Human Rights Watch, Robert Seely, and Christopher Zurcher, all experts in the field, since every time I post this information it is deleted.

			== Consensus discussion to rename this page ==
	Estimates of the number of civilians killed range widely from 20,000 to 100,000, with the latter figure commonly referenced by Chechen sources. Most scholars and human rights organizations generally estimate the number of civilian casualties to be 40,000; this figure is attributed to the research and scholarship of Chechnya expert John Dunlop, who estimates that the total number of civilian casualties is at least 35,000. This range is also consistent with post-war publications by the Russian statistics office estimating 30,000 to 40,000 civilians killed. The Moscow-based human rights organization, Memorial, which actively documented human rights abuses throughout the war, estimates the number of civilian casualties to be a slightly higher at 50,000. The number of ethnic Russian civilian losses is estimated at 25,000-30,000, or roughly 85% of the total deaths.

			There is an open consensus discussion to rename this page: ]. It's a double RM, also to rename ]. Please participate if you can! We need as many opinions as possible. Thank you. -- ]] 14:19, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
	There is no commonly accepted methodology for counting civilian fatalities during the First Chechen War. Most attempts to record fatalities focused on combatant deaths. Neither party to the conflict recorded accurate numbers of civilian deaths, and any records failed to disaggregate victims based on ethnicity. Although the Russian statistics office published a list citing approximately 40,000 civilian casualties in the war’s aftermath, the humiliating defeat of Russia’s first military campaign in Chechnya and the resulting unwillingness of Russian officials to provide accurate accounts of civilian or military losses have complicated efforts to determine total civilian casualties on both sides. Chechen officials have also released estimates of total casualties for both this conflict (1994 – 1996) and a second conflict (1999 – 2000), estimating losses at 160,000, but the figures are not further disaggregated. Efforts to verify statistics were further complicated by the lack of independent monitors and journalists on the ground in Chechnya during the wars.

			== Move discussion in progress ==
	Nonetheless, sources estimate that a large percentage of civilian fatalities occurred during the invasion of Grozny between December 1994 and March 1995. From the beginning of the invasion to the middle of February, fatality estimates range from 25,000 to 30,000 civilian deaths. This range indicates that the majority of the civilian fatalities in the entire war occurred during a mere four-month window. Of the estimated 25,000 killed in the invasion of Grozny, it is estimated that 18,000 were killed by mid January. According to General Dudayev, the first president of the Chechen Republic, 85 percent of civilians killed in the invasion (approximately 25,500) were ethnic Russians due to the fact that the Chechens were the first to evacuate the capital; this estimate is close to the figure put forward by Russian human rights campaigner Sergei Kovalyov, who estimated the number of ethnic Russian deaths at 24,000. The ethnic Russian population in Chechnya was 24.5% in the last Soviet census of 1989. In the 2006 census, ethnic Russians accounted for 3.4% of the population of Chechnya. ] (]) 02:36, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

			There is a move discussion in progress on ] which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. <!-- Talk:First Chechen War#Requested move 21 February 2024 crosspost --> —] 14:48, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
	:Whatever that is, this level of detail does not go ''in the goddamn lead of the article'', which is supposed to be a summary of the contents of the article, not a brand new expansion of them. ] (] / ]) 02:53, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

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Insurgent apologist comments removed

Removed an questionable comment without source "most of the attacks were carried out against military forces" and replaced with link to specific attacks.

Marked as assassinated

I propose to mark Rizvan Akhmadov and Gaidar Gadzhiyev as assassinated in the info box. Dokka Umarov and Sulim Yamadayev were also assassinated, albeit outside of the war. Swesbed (talk) 01:02, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

Nonexistent first sentence

The beginning of the article goes nowhere. Salmoonlight (talk) 17:32, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Fixed. 2601:85:C100:46C0:60A7:7A37:DB86:666F (talk) 23:07, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

Consensus discussion to rename this page

There is an open consensus discussion to rename this page: Talk:First_Chechen_War#Requested_move_21_February_2024. It's a double RM, also to rename First Chechen War. Please participate if you can! We need as many opinions as possible. Thank you. -- GreenC 14:19, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:First Chechen War which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 14:48, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

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