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| == |
== mitt tilbaketrukne tannkjøtt == | ||
| really? this is delightful and brings a smile to my face, but there is a reason language 101 exposition confines itself to things like "the boy's football" and "my brown suitcase" and the like. ] (]) 09:47, 13 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
| :Maybe this sort of graphic detail is peculiar to the Nordic languages. A reading in a 1945 Icelandic grammar: "What were the children doing? They were playing. In the classroom was a table; on the table were papers, ink, and pens. On the wall were maps and pictures of animals. There was a picture of a raven pecking a lamb's eyes out. ..." (Stefán Einarsson, ''Icelandic: grammar, texts, glossary'', The Johns Hopkins University Press, 1945.) ] (]) 11:30, 13 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
| ::It may be that we have a taste for the macabre in the Nordic countries, but I do find it an odd example. I don't see what value it adds either. There is already an example for the neuter gender. An example with plural is missing, but that might perhaps require some more explanation. An example with the feminine gender is also missing, although that would look identical to the masculine example, so one can not tell if it actually is an example of feminine, as that is an optional grammatical gender in Bokmål. ] (]) 17:56, 13 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
| == Map of norway needs fixing == | |||
| The claim that the Norwegian language is native to parts of Sweden has been removed a number of times, but is added back again every time. Based on what? There's a dialect continuum in certain areas along the long common border between the two countries, but the language spoken on the eastern side of the border is no more Norwegian than the language spoken on the western side of the border is Swedish, and I have never ever seen anyone claim that the Swedish language is native to parts of Norway... - '''Tom''' | ] ] 18:19, 26 September 2016 (UTC) | |||
| :Since Sweden has acquired and kept parts of Norway in wars of old, but not (at least significantly) the other way around, it is perhaps not so strange that this only goes one way. I'm not sure to what degree what is spoken in those regions can be considered Norwegian, since Norwegian has certainly changed since those wars and those regions have certainly been swedified over time. If it is, then Danish should perhaps also be a native language in Sweden, since Scania was also lost by Denmark-Norway to Sweden at the same time. There seems to be some variation between language articles as to whether "native to" refers to current usage, or historical use. English and Spanish simply don't use this field at all. ] (]) 19:02, 26 September 2016 (UTC) | |||
| ::The dialects of Swedish spoken in Jämtland/Härjedalen and Bohuslän are definitely not Norwegian, nor is the dialect of Swedish commonly spoken in Scania Danish (we're talking about areas that were annexed by Sweden more than 350 years ago). And ''"Native to"'' of course refers to areas where the language is spoken natively (i.e. as ]) by people who are not recent or fairly recent immigrants, unless you claim that Norwegian-speakers are the native (i.e. pre-Columbus) population of parts of the American Midwest (see the infobox in the article...). - '''Tom''' | ] ] 20:01, 26 September 2016 (UTC) | |||
| :::"Native to" needs a definition, and both of these statements need referencing. The numbers in the mid-eastern US is tiny, and I think to say it's native to there is nostalgic thinking. If you used the same yardstick on English you'd have to say it's native to dozens of countries. There are 5-6000 Norwegians working in the oil industry in Houston. There are three quarters of a million Britons in Spain. What does that imply? --] (]) 22:41, 26 September 2016 (UTC) | |||
| ::::When I look up ''native'' on this very wiki, I get two possible relevant definitions. One definition looks just one generation back, another goes much, much longer. This wiki's article for the Portuguese language follows the first definition, while the article for the French language follows the latter (with a note about current usage being different). Minor border adjustments are not taken into consideration, nor is Southern Belgium or Monaco(!). As mentioned, English and Spanish mostly avoids the issue altogether by using "Region" rather than "Native to". English uses similar wording to French, while Spanish follows Portuguese. So it does not appear to me that one interpretation is more obvious than the other, which might be why there is disagreement as to where Norwegian is native. (One could perhaps argue that Norwegian is native to Strömstad according to both definitions, but I mention this only because I find the idea amusing, not as a serious argument.) Another reason for why someone insists stating that Norwegian is native to Sweden and not the other way around might simply be editing bias. That the editor is not interested in contributing to the article about Swedish. I haven't checked the edit history. ] (]) 05:05, 27 September 2016 (UTC) | |||
| :::I think we need a good source before we even discuss adding this piece of information. I don't see any sources, so our own speculations on what could possibly be meant are not all that useful.] · ] 06:08, 27 September 2016 (UTC) | |||
| The zoomed in map showing the spread of norwegian features Jan Mayen (1) outside of the text box and (2) in the middle of Libya. There are (presumptively) no norwegian speakers in the middle of Libya. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 19:34, 4 February 2022 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| Without sources, it should definitely be removed (as I have done multiple times). --] (]) 07:38, 29 September 2016 (UTC) | |||
| ::Looking at the literature on linguistic minorities in Sweden I find no mention of a Norwegian minority (Finnish, Sami, Meänkieli, Romani, Yiddish, immigrant languages - no Norwegian).] · ] 07:56, 29 September 2016 (UTC) | |||
| :::I doubt the Scandinavian countries would define any Scandinavian language as a minority language. The language barrier is too weak for that. I think there actually is an agreement that speakers of these languages are treated equally in some way(s). Although I've never heard them being mentioned as a minority, there might be more Swedish speakers in Norway than any other language except Norwegian and Sami. They may however not count anyway since they might still be Swedish citizens working in Norway under EEA rules. ] (]) 15:08, 29 September 2016 (UTC) | |||
| == Apparent error in Frysian example == | |||
| : There are far more people from Poland in Norway than Swedes or any other outside nationality. Of course the Poles are learning Norwegian while Swedes seldom are. --] (]) 02:54, 27 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
| The current article contains: | |||
| == Very Strange Sentence == | |||
| ”De reinbôge hat in protte kleuren” | |||
| "As of June 5, 2005, all feminine nouns could once again be written as masculine nouns in Bokmål, giving the option of writing the language with only two genders – common and neuter." | |||
| in a table. I doubt it is correct Frysian, since - according to a couple of sources - “in” is a singular indefinite article whereas “kleuren” is a plural word. I suspect “in” needs to be removed. Can someone knowledgeable about the Frysian language confirm this?] (]) 15:29, 27 September 2022 (UTC) | |||
| First of all, typical language changes do not occur on a single day. If there was some piece of legislation passed that day, that should be mentioned here. But even if that is the case, that does not mean the language itself underwent a fundamental change that day. And the claim that nouns "could once again" be written in a particular way is not backed up by any reference to when they previously could be written that way. ] (]) 14:35, 28 September 2016 (UTC) | |||
| :I removed it, because it was ] anyway, like the rest of that section. Seems to be a major problem in general with these linguistics articles, people just add content without citing verifiable sources. ] (]) 18:08, 27 September 2022 (UTC) | |||
| : {{Ping|GeneCallahan}}, your reactions are reasonable! The sentence should explain the situation (better) and there should be a reference. I should imagine that ''Språkrådet'', the official ], made a decision on that day. I'll see if I can find and add a reference for that (in Norwegian) and improve the sentence. Thank you for pointing this out! | |||
| == "]" listed at ] == | |||
| : Many sections in the article are marked as needing refernces. :( | |||
| ] | |||
| : As is mentioned in the article itself, "The now-abandoned official policy to merge Bokmål and Nynorsk into one common language called Samnorsk through a series of spelling reforms has created a wide spectrum of varieties of both Bokmål and Nynorsk." It also, naturally enough, created controversy. Users of Bokmål are a large majority and I'm sure <s>they</s> <small>(correction: some of them)</small> objected strongly to being forced to become a written language with three rather than two noun-genders whenever that occurred (prior to June 5. 2005). --] (]) 19:19, 28 September 2016 (UTC) | |||
| The redirect <span class="plainlinks"></span> has been listed at ] to determine whether its use and function meets the ]. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at '''{{slink|Misplaced Pages:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 May 1#Vikværsk}}''' until a consensus is reached. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> ]]] 00:03, 1 May 2023 (UTC) | |||
| :: I get the impression that most Bokmål users use three genders. Although the counting reform has been rather successful, I doubt "they" (this is spanning generations) started using the third gender just because of a writing reform, but rather have always used them in speech, even when they were not allowed to write them. So did really "all" Bokmål users object to the third gender in writing? Your last statement can be read that way. Or was it perhaps just a vocal minority that was used to only having two genders in their dialect/sociolect? ] (]) 19:58, 28 September 2016 (UTC) | |||
| == "]" listed at ] == | |||
| ::: Sorry for suggesting "they objected strongly" was meant to include ''all'' Bokmål users. (Corrected above.) Neither all Bokmål nor all Nynorsk users are as engaged or as vocal as some of us are, of course. I do, however, know some who never would say ''sola'' nor ''boka''. :) --] (]) 16:43, 29 September 2016 (UTC) | |||
| ] | |||
| :::: Yes, I wasn't saying that they don't exist, I just started questioning what I thought I knew. (Personally, I'm in principle a three-gendered Bokmål user, although which gender I use for the words in question here may vary, even within the same sentence. I'm a victim of the Norwegian language war.) ] (]) 17:49, 29 September 2016 (UTC) | |||
| The redirect <span class="plainlinks"></span> has been listed at ] to determine whether its use and function meets the ]. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at '''{{slink|Misplaced Pages:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 May 1#BokmaalAndNynorsk}}''' until a consensus is reached. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> <span style="border:1px solid;padding:2px 6px;font-variant:small-caps">'''〜 ] • ]'''</span> 06:03, 1 May 2023 (UTC) | |||
| == nynorsk 2012 == | |||
| == Norwegian and Google Translate == | |||
| The article reads: | |||
| So what dialect does Google Translate Use? ] (]) 21:24, 23 December 2016 (UTC) | |||
| : Dialects are spoken. Nynorsk and Bokmål are written. They use Bokmål. They try to translate from Nynorsk (to, for example, English). The result is often not good (and sometimes is hilarious). --] (]) 03:07, 27 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
| "Nynorsk still adheres to the 1959 standard." | |||
| == section: '''Danish to Norwegian'''. Split? == | |||
| but the article at | |||
| At the top of the section "Danish to Norwegian" there is a box, dated January 2017, where it says: "It has been suggested that this article be split into a new article titled ]. (Discuss.)" | |||
| https://en.wikipedia.org/Nynorsk | |||
| The "Discuss" link sends one here, but no one has started a discussion nor explained why it has been "suggested" that the article should be split. If you are the one who added the proposal, you should start a discussion here or remove the notice. --] (]) 03:33, 27 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
| writes about | |||
| == "disputed" in the infobox == | |||
| "the 2012 language revision" | |||
| There are no language "disputed", please remove that. ] (]) 14:30, 31 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
| Could any of you clarify? Thanks! ] (]) 20:41, 27 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :I think they are there to reflect that Norwegian can either be considered as belonging together with Swedish and Danish, with which it is mutually intelligible, or as belonging together with Icelandic and Faroese, which share a more recent common origin. But it seems then somewhat odd to put it above "Continental Scandinavian", as the Norwegian language conflict is not in any way about where Continental Scandinavian belongs within North Germanic. Just having Continental Scandinavian there is picking sides in the "conflict". ] (]) 16:47, 31 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
Latest revision as of 20:41, 27 October 2024
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mitt tilbaketrukne tannkjøtt
really? this is delightful and brings a smile to my face, but there is a reason language 101 exposition confines itself to things like "the boy's football" and "my brown suitcase" and the like. 2A01:CB0C:CD:D800:484F:92D0:543:F7A1 (talk) 09:47, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
- Maybe this sort of graphic detail is peculiar to the Nordic languages. A reading in a 1945 Icelandic grammar: "What were the children doing? They were playing. In the classroom was a table; on the table were papers, ink, and pens. On the wall were maps and pictures of animals. There was a picture of a raven pecking a lamb's eyes out. ..." (Stefán Einarsson, Icelandic: grammar, texts, glossary, The Johns Hopkins University Press, 1945.) Largoplazo (talk) 11:30, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
- It may be that we have a taste for the macabre in the Nordic countries, but I do find it an odd example. I don't see what value it adds either. There is already an example for the neuter gender. An example with plural is missing, but that might perhaps require some more explanation. An example with the feminine gender is also missing, although that would look identical to the masculine example, so one can not tell if it actually is an example of feminine, as that is an optional grammatical gender in Bokmål. Ters (talk) 17:56, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
Map of norway needs fixing
The zoomed in map showing the spread of norwegian features Jan Mayen (1) outside of the text box and (2) in the middle of Libya. There are (presumptively) no norwegian speakers in the middle of Libya. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.250.128.97 (talk) 19:34, 4 February 2022 (UTC)
Apparent error in Frysian example
The current article contains:
”De reinbôge hat in protte kleuren”
in a table. I doubt it is correct Frysian, since - according to a couple of sources - “in” is a singular indefinite article whereas “kleuren” is a plural word. I suspect “in” needs to be removed. Can someone knowledgeable about the Frysian language confirm this?Redav (talk) 15:29, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
- I removed it, because it was WP:OR anyway, like the rest of that section. Seems to be a major problem in general with these linguistics articles, people just add content without citing verifiable sources. TylerBurden (talk) 18:08, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
"Vikværsk" listed at Redirects for discussion
The redirect Vikværsk has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Misplaced Pages:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 May 1 § Vikværsk until a consensus is reached. 1234qwer1234qwer4 00:03, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
"BokmaalAndNynorsk" listed at Redirects for discussion
The redirect BokmaalAndNynorsk has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Misplaced Pages:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 May 1 § BokmaalAndNynorsk until a consensus is reached. 〜 Festucalex • talk 06:03, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
nynorsk 2012
The article reads:
"Nynorsk still adheres to the 1959 standard."
but the article at
https://en.wikipedia.org/Nynorsk
writes about
"the 2012 language revision"
Could any of you clarify? Thanks! 130.238.112.129 (talk) 20:41, 27 October 2024 (UTC)
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