Misplaced Pages

Talk:Bharatanatyam: Difference between revisions

Article snapshot taken from Wikipedia with creative commons attribution-sharealike license. Give it a read and then ask your questions in the chat. We can research this topic together.
Browse history interactively← Previous editContent deleted Content addedVisualWikitext
Revision as of 17:15, 17 June 2016 editSpacemanSpiff (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Administrators53,520 edits →top: fix importance ratings for WP India← Previous edit Latest revision as of 18:05, 7 November 2024 edit undo223.178.212.117 (talk) →padma not cover in this: new sectionTags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit New topic 
(42 intermediate revisions by 21 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
{{WikiProject banner shell|class=B|vital=yes|1=
{{Vital article|level=4|topic=Art|class=C}}
{{WP India|class=C|importance=top|karnataka=yes|karnataka-importance=low|tamilnadu=yes|tamilnadu-importance=top}} {{WikiProject India |importance=Top |karnataka=yes |karnataka-importance=High |tamilnadu=yes |tamilnadu-importance=Top}}
{{WikiProject Dance|importance=high|class=C}} {{WikiProject Dance|importance=High}}
{{WikiProject Hinduism|importance=Mid}}
{{WikiProject Visual arts }}
}}
{{User:MiszaBot/config
|archiveheader = {{Aan}}
|maxarchivesize = 500K
|counter = 1
|minthreadsleft = 0
|minthreadstoarchive = 1
|algo = old(90d)
|archive = Talk:Bharatanatyam/Archive %(counter)d
}}
{{Archive box|search=yes|auto=yes}}


== padma not cover in this ==
==Sabha==
Section on Bharathanatyam should include details about the that promote them and about the season of Music and Dance in Tamilnadu . Sabhas like are now available exclusively promoting this art form.


] (]) 14:02, 21 August 2010 (UTC)Sailapathi padma not cover in this ] (]) 18:05, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
-----
==Common spellings==
Here is a result of Google searches for common misspellings of the name. This will be useful if in future there's a debate on whether this article needs to be redirected to any other spelling. Also if any other titles need to be redirected to this article. Search done on Aug 6. ] 16:46, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)
<table>
<tr><td>"bharata natyam" <td align="right"> 20,100
<tr><td>&nbsp;bharatanatyam <td align="right"> 17,300
<tr><td>&nbsp; bharathanatyam <td align="right"> 8,520
<tr><td>&nbsp; bharatnatyam <td align="right"> 7,280
<tr><td>"bharat natyam" <td align="right"> 3,700
<tr><td>"bharatha natyam" <td align="right"> 3,210
<tr><td>&nbsp; bharathnatyam <td align="right"> 428
<tr><td>"bharata nathyam" <td align="right"> 94
<tr><td>"bharath natyam" <td align="right"> 89
<tr><td>"bharatha nathyam" <td align="right"> 38
<tr><td>"bharat nathyam" <td align="right"> 19
<tr><td>&nbsp; bharatanathyam <td align="right"> 14
<tr><td>&nbsp; bharathanathyam <td align="right"> 5
<tr><td>&nbsp; bharatnathyam <td align="right"> 4
</table>

Interesting to note that 18 months later, google finds about ten times as many pages. A striking indication of the growth of the Internet within certain communities. ] 01:23, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

----
Yahoo search for
<table>
<tr><td>&nbsp; bharatnatyam <td align="right"> 54,600
<tr><td>&nbsp; "bharata natyam" <td align="right"> 35,600
<tr><td>&nbsp; bharatanatyam <td align="right"> 33,300
<tr><td>&nbsp; bharathanatyam <td align="right"> 26,400
</table>
<span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 2004-10-17t03:30:02z</span><!-- Template:Unsigned2 -->

Google search today (29/09/2010):
*"bharatanatyam": 274,000 results (books: 10,400).
*"bharathanatyam": 211,000 results (books: 557).
*"bharatnatyam": 119,000 results (books: 3,030).
*"bharata natyam": 105,000 results (books: 15,300).
*"bharatha natyam": 34,900 results (books: 998).
*"bharat natyam": 30,900 results (books: 3,870).

In 2004 "bharata natyam" was still number 1, now it's in the fourth place. Could it be that this drop down was influenced by the title of this article on Misplaced Pages, from where several site owners may (partially) have taken their information (see for example ]? The still has "bharata natyam" as the title. ] (]) 17:01, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

:The name of the dance is a direct translation of the sounds in Hindi to English. The word could be pronounced slightly different depending on where one is from in India. Is there really only one correct way to spell it in English? Clearly, there is a discrepancy as to whether or not to add an "a" after "bharat" and "bharath." Many times the ending "a" is written but not always pronounced, which could explain why some people include it and others don't. Then there is the case of whether or not to add an "h" after the first "t." Indian's pronounce "t" differently than English speaking folks, which could explain why some people want to add an "h" and others don't. And then there is the argument as to make the name for the dance one word or two words in English. Perhaps, it's two characters in Hindi, but it is a name of the dance; so some prefer to write it as one word in English.
:] (]) 06:24, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

::Thanks for clarifying that part at least! On ] it is stated: "] are an unreliable test for whether one term is more common than another, but can suggest that no single term is predominant in English... When in doubt, search results should also be evaluated with more weighting given to verifiable reliable sources than to less reliable sources (such as comments in forums, mailing lists and the like). Do consult reliable works of general reference in English." I did a search in Google Books (added to the above now), which gives 15,300 results for "bharata natyam" and 10,400 results for "bharatanatyam". Would there be any objection if I create a request to move this page to "Bharata Natyam"? ] (]) 14:45, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

::Suggest we stay with "Bharatanatyam" as one word

Search engine tests are not an the authority in this decision. The pre-emininent institution that has brought this dance form from darkness into the modern era is the Kalakshetra School in Chennai which uses the spelling as a single word: bharatanatyam. see http://www.kalakshetra.net/about_kalakshetra_foundation.html.

As two words the phrase "Bharata Natyam" would literally be translated as "Indian Dance." But in practical usage "Bharatanatyam" is it's own unique dance form. We refer to "Odissi," "Manipuri," "Kuchipudi" and "Bharatanatyam" as different dance forms. As such using putting both words into a single compound word is the preferred form. Note that currently the title of the page and the opening was two words but throughout the text the two words are run together. So we should make this consistent.

How do we get the title of the page to change also?

== Medha Hari ==

Never heard of this name. Also, why this ugly/advertising image is added here? --] 09:55, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

:Dear Rrjanbiah,
:You need to learn more about the contemporary Bharatanatyam. And the picture is not at all ugly. -- 10:10, 8 Nov 2004

But, it definitely looks like a ]. The content of the articles and the pages linked to it seems to confirm that. --] 07:13, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)


Rrjanbiah,|Medha Hari web site pages provide non-commercial information for FREE
]

Hi Rrjanbiah! I looked in major directories (Open Directory, Looksmart, etc) and Medha Hari is listed there. Keep yourself updated.
] 04:20, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Its not about being listed on many pages. I am a dancer myself and I looked at the pictures of the dancer. Sorry to say, I did not find them to be graceful or accurate especially the postures of the hips.<small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (] • ]) 2006-01-30t17:04:17z (UTC{{{3|}}})</small>

REPLY TO THE ABOVE:
If you are a dancer, I want to see YOUR "graceful lines". I think you are just jealous of how graceful Medha Hari looks.<small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (] • ]) 2006-02-16t05:05:45z (UTC{{{3|}}})</small>

REPLY TO MEDHA HARI ISSUE:
The issue is not whether Meda Hari is graceful or not. The issue is whether she is a great enough dancer to be listed on Misplaced Pages as an authority on the subject. I do not even know who Medha Hari is. However, I do not believe that Rukmini Devi and her belong on the same page, regardless of the contributions Meda Hari has made. Any reference to Meda Hari is just pure commercialism, and not necessary for a general background article.

CONCUR with ]:
This digitally enhanced image of an obscure performer Medha Hari in a pose though free for use, does not do justice to such an important article on this great indian dance form. In fact it is unfair advertisement to a danseuse who should be heralding her talent through her performance rather than through digitally enhanced images uploaded on Misplaced Pages bharatanatyam article.

] (]) 19:10, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

== From Tamil Nadu? ==

Is Bharatanatyam orginated from Tamil Nadu? Someone at ] added so. --] 10:01, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

:Dear Rrjanbiah,
:It appears that you are not familiar with Bharatanatyam at all - 10:07, 8 Nov 2004

::AFAIK, Bharathanatyam is a Telugu devadasi dance which was commercialized by brahmins like Rukmani Devi. But, neither this article nor any other artcile seems to say that it is Tamilians' dance. --] 07:28, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)

:::BharatanATya is a dance form of Karnataka. the very fact that it is Karnatik Music to which this dance form is performed proves this fact. Karnataka music or Carnatic music was structured by Sri Purandara Dasa, the great saint from Karnataka. It is to this structured and sophisticated musical form that BharatanATya is performed. Anyway, there is ABSOLUTELY no proof to the claim that it originated in TamilNadu. Misplaced Pages is not your DinaMani or Dinamalar or Nakkeeran to print/type anything and everything you like. Keep all your self advancing theories to your tabloids and your textbooks. Changing it.<span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 2006-01-25t07:31:55z</span><!-- Template:Unsigned2 -->

:::Moreover, even history records the fact that the Kannada Hoysala queen, Shantala/Shantale was an acknowledged expert of this art long before Devadasis started performing in Andhra temples or Krishna and Rukmini brought it to the TN stage.<span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 2006-01-25t07:34:54z</span><!-- Template:Unsigned2 -->

----
Please lets stop this bickering immediately! Bharatha Natyam is in fact from Tamil Nadu. And, any reputable source would establish this fact. Yes, Tamil Nadu didn't exist till much after independence. So, the Bharatha Natyam tradition does exist outside of geographical Tamil Nadu. Still, Tamil Nadu is the core from where the tradition radiates. And, this whole thing about Karnatik Music = Karnataka is first-rate absurd. The term Karnatik (or Carnatic) - derived from Karu Nadu - historically denoted an area that includes parts of Tamil Nadu, Karnataka and AP. (Ever heard of the Carnatic Wars and where they were fought?) So, my point is lets be more scientific and thoughtful, instead of behaving like boorish, uneducated charlatans.
---- <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 01:49, 26 July 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

Partisan advertisement and promotional campaign on behalf of medha hari is clearly visible by the link and image of medha hari being put up on the page. In order that neutrality is attained such partisan publicity should not be overlooked. Is wikipedia an advertising platform ? ] 11:37, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)

--
This is not medha hari's advertising page!!!!!!!!<small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (] • ]){{#if:2006-12-20t19:42:48z|&#32;2006-12-20t19:42:48z|}}.</small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->

For Rrjanbiah: you are Telugu, aren't you? - there is no place for nationalism on Misplaced Pages

For Water Fish:
I do not perceive adding relevant content as SPAM.
External links are supported for enriching elements (such as the multimedia content).
Before deleting anything, you better think of the benefit of the reader: will the photo be a valuable illustration? Will external links be a valuable extention of Misplaced Pages? --]

I agree with Ralph
]


Almost all the articles and books I have read say it is from Thanjavur in Tamil Nadu. A simple google search shows a number of pages. Have to revert. I think this article from The Hindu should seal it.
http://www.thehindu.com/thehindu/mp/2003/06/25/stories/2003062500230100.htm
Please stop reverting...


- ] 07:39, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

this article from Hindu seals *nothing*. It does not speak a single word about Bharatanatya's origins. And even if it did, the author of that article is far from the last word on the subject. STOP MAKING ARBITRARY CLAIMS AND PASSING OFF SPURIOUS LINKS AS PROOF!!. reverting it.<small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (] • ]) 2006-01-25t08:47:45z (UTC{{{3|}}})</small>

to the above.. did you really read that Hindu article? It says

"BHARATANATYAM, THE traditional art form of Tamil Nadu"

Look guys, no place for nationalism in Wiki. As far as I know BHARATANATYAM originated in Tamil Nadu and a lot of people who representing BHARATANATYAM are from Tamil Nadu. If you doubt it do a simple Google. DO NOT REVERT. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 18:12, 2 April 2009 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

Doing a simple google does not necessarily prove anything. who says google is accurate? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 21:57, 1 September 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

One of the commentators on Sangita Ratnakara is the telugu king Singa Bhupala. Sangita Ratnakara contains chapters on Bharata Natyam also. Another
standard reference work on Bharata Natyam, Nritta Ratnavali, is authoured by telugu chieftain Jayapa. Machaldevi in Kakati Prataparudra's court and Lakuma Devi in Karpura Vasanta Raya's court are famous bharatanatyam dancers. We have to take the claim that bharatanatym is of tamil origin with some pinches of salt - D.V.N.Sarma <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 07:32, 19 October 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
______
Is there any proof that Kuchipidi originated from AP? or Hindustani
originated from India? Common... Bharatanatyam is state dance as per government gazettes of TN and central government gazette. Also wiki on Governement of TN.<ref>http://en.wikipedia.org/Tamil_Nadu</ref> <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 20:21, 28 December 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
The earlier name for Bharata Natyam is sadir. The same was there among Andhra devadasis as katcheri aata. As a matter of fact there are identical devadasi dance traditions in all the four states of Tamil Nadu , Karanataka, Kerala and Andhra. In Andhra this tradition is different and is in addition to kuchipudi. D.V.N.Sarma. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 13:44, 10 January 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

Seriously, stop this non-sense. International stage like Misplaced Pages is not a place to show hatred towards other language nor is it a place to argue who is superior than others.<span style="color:green;font-size:small;;font-family:Segoe Print;">-<i>B</i>iLLa-</span>] 23:51, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

==Advertisement vandalism==

RE: SECTION ON BHARATA NATYAM SCHOOLS IN THE US
Hello lovers of Bharata Natyam. I added a section on the location of dance schools in the US because I thought it would be useful for people to know where they are. Many times, the public at large is completely unaware of the existence of such schools in the area. This would serve the local community as well as the Indian community. I hope fellow Wikipedians don't mind. --] 04:49, 8 February 2007 (UTC)


*Hi, Water Fish and Rrjanbiah. I do not understand why you add external links to other Misplaced Pages articles but at the same time you are only so good as to indiscriminately erase all external links from the Bharatanatyam article.

I personally added the Mudras.
** It has nothing to with 'advertising'
** It has nothing to do with Medha Hari and your hatred towards her

I added the link because most mudras on that site are given short descriptions and photos.

<tt>If you continue to erase all the external links indiscriminately (that's vandalism), I will complain to the admins.</tt>

] 14:40, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Hi, 219.65.124.*** also called as ], also called as ] also called as ]. It is incredible to make three user pages within a span of 24 hours. People in the wikipedia knows how vandals operate. One is allowed to have multiple id but not to lobby for their own views or advertisement.

By definition, linking to webpages devoted to the promotion of a single dancer is spam. It is surely not helpful and is definitely advertisement. Moreover the wikipedia gives bibliography to textbooks dealing with topics. These <b>Reference textbooks</b> are not spam, they are treatise on a subject.

listing on open directory or Looksmart page or Google and professional directories like Narthaki.com, can be done, it is never taken as a criterion to validate authenticity or to be listed on an encyclopaedia. Misplaced Pages is well aware of such acts by people to legitimise their personal views.

Besides being featured 3 or more times in a newspaper or television is not a criterion to be on an encyclopedia. Many major newspapers and TV channels throughout the world promote young dancers by writing and presenting about them more than one time. if one was to make encyclopedia article about all of them, then they do not even qualify half as much as the virtuosos from conservatories around the world. But wikipedia does not entertain articles even about those virtuosos from great universities.

Medha Hari is probably a young dancer, and definitely not a major dancer. If that is enough criterion to be written about on the wikipedia, then in that case every music student in ] and music conservatories and ballets would have to be written about, and that is definitely not meant for the wikipedia. ] 06:25, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)


Deleting other users' comments is inappropriate.

Re: "linking to webpages devoted to the promotion of a single dancer is spam"

I guess it is not "promotion": the first link gives an extended overview of the subject matter, and the second link provides the free video illustrations to the article.

I welcome ] to list other 13-year-old Bharatanatyam "virtuosos from conservatories around the world" if he cares to find any: with the details info on their style and online videos.

I would like to say that ] is not familiar with the topic.

The classical dance column in the national newspaper the Hindu is similar to the Dance Magazine. Any 13-year-old dancer who is reviewed 3 times in the Dance Magazine would be worthy of being listed on Misplaced Pages. -- ] 09:06, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

:'''says who?? says who?? says who??'''<small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (] • ]) 2006-01-25t23:47:41z (UTC{{{3|}}})</small>

----
There are several or should I say numerous young people far younger than age of 13 who are virtuosos. A lot of the students in ] are below 8 and 9 years old. Several articles about these kids come in the New York Times and other prominent newspapers around the world. To write article in an encyclopedia about a person, the person has not only to be a virtuoso but also stand the test of time. That is the reason one does not find articles written about just anybody who is famous. An encyclopedia article is written about a person who retains brilliance over a long time. If a young talent lasts for several decades with the same brilliance then an article could be written about that person. Just being a prodigy does not qualify. One needs to retain that virtuosity for decades before receiving lasting acclaim.

The wikipedia has artilce about prodigies who retained brilliance over decades. Violinists like ] were prodigies. Infact Yehudi Menuhin gave his first performance when he was 7 years old. But his entry into an encyclopedia was made only after several decades of continious performance. ] 11:41, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Promoting young artists is good but refering to them as iconic dancers is Pov. If a picture of ones close ones is put up then it should only be described as a dancer without giving name and without presenting that person as a prominent artist, because that comes about after decades of consistent brilliance. ] 11:41, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

*It is disputable whether "decades of consistent brilliance" are required for one to be recognized as a virtuoso and a prominent dancer. Dancers, after the "decades of consistent brilliance", usually leave the stage, and can no longer be referred to as dancers but as dance teachers and "past celebrities".
**You cannot compare western ballet dancers with Bharatanatyam dancers. Bharatanatyam is a spiritual discipline, and has nothing to do with ballet, frankly speaking.
**As for "a prominent artist", one has to look at the list of the artiste's awards, performances, and public recognition in general. If nobody can recognize the name of Yehudi Menuhin in India, likewise, very few may be familiar with the names of the Indian Bharatanatyam prominent artistes.

***:'''says who?? says who?? says who??''' ...Medha Hari is not well known even in India. why well known, she is not even known as an artist. 99 out of 100 people wouldnt even have heard her name...this is nothing by cheap and blatant advertisement<small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (] • ]) 2006-01-26t03:52:58z (UTC{{{3|}}})</small>

:Regarding "99 out of 100 people wouldnt even have heard her name", I have to say that 9 of 16 people whom I know know some things about Bharatanatyam DO KNOW MEDHA HARI as an excellent dancer. Of course, if by those "99 out of 100 people" was meant a group of Texas cowboys who spent most of their lives in bars...<small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (] • ]) 2006-02-16t05:03:05z (UTC{{{3|}}})</small>


] 04:24, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)


==Comments moved from ]==
Under attack from users Water Fish and Rrjanbiah who indiscriminately erase (but do not add anything) <b>all external links section<b>. The external links contain highly relevant, unique and valuable resources (text, photo and web video). ----] 20:27, 15 Nov 2004

The so called <b>]</b> and <b>]</b> are advertisement and partisan promotion of a dancer named ]. Such spam cannot be used as a link in the wikipedia. The wikipedia is not a platform for advertisement and promotions. The purpose of these links is to promote the sales of cds and a young performer who is not even a major dancer.

the ] has probably been created by the same author, it is very easy to create several links to a spam on the wikipedia. One should not be deceived by them.

the user id ], ], ] ], ], ] were all created since 13th november 2004. It seems they are all created by the same person who has done considerable vandalism from 219.65.124.***;

By definition, linking to webpages devoted to the promotion of a single dancer is spam. It is surely not helpful and is definitely advertisement. Moreover the wikipedia gives bibliography to textbooks dealing with topics. These <b>Reference textbooks</b> are not spam, they are treatise on a subject.

listing on open directory or Looksmart page or Google and professional directories like Narthaki.com, can be done, it is never taken as a criterion to validate authenticity or to be listed on an encyclopaedia. Misplaced Pages is well aware of such acts by people to legitimise their personal views. ] 19:48, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

**
Rrjanbiah/Water Fish,
why do you delete wholesale <b>the whole secion<b> of the external links? <b>Most of these links
have nothing to do with Medha Hari.<b>
I personally added a link to the <b>Mudra's web site<b> that you erased.
So, what is the point?
The point is that Rrjanbiah-Water Fish erases everything wholesale.
Myself, I never 'deleted the reference texts'.
] 02:59, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

{|
|-
| width=150px bgcolor=red|Hey, ],] || width=500px bgcolor=white|did you realize that 13th november was because normal people, who work on weekdays, may like to browse the Web on weekends????
|}
] 04:36, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

==Graphics==
Oh, my dear! Does anybody know when ] is going learn how to insert a picture without distorting the aspect ratio so that the picture looks rather ugly? :-)

Or is he doing it on purpose?

Does anybody find the other image (screenshot of thumbnails) to be appropriate here?

I need a big magnifying glass to see anything!

Cheers!

] 13:06, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

:Hey,

:I edited this page, Medha Hari's picture is on this once, but I put photos of some well known dancers including Mahalakshmi and G.Narerndran.

:gitac2s<small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 2005-12-04t04:14:06z</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->



DOES ANYONE HAVE PICTURES OF HASTA MUDRAS TO POST? IT WILL BE VERY VALUABLE FOR ANYONE JUST STARTING TO LEARN DANCE. --] 04:50, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

==Tagging==
The author is blatantly sticking to his cooked up theories and more cheeky, is accusing me of vandalism. I am new to wiki and didnt know of the talk page when i made my first few edits. Later I have discussed my concerns on the talk page too...but have met with stubborn silence. Hence tagging this page.<small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (] • ]) 2006-01-26t03:59:29z (UTC{{{3|}}})</small>

Issue being discussed
*the author provides spurious 'proof' in the name of two links to advance his baseless argument tha BN originated in TN. my concerns vis a vis this so called 'proof' or links which supposedly 'seal' the deal are somewhere below on this page.<small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (] • ]) 2006-01-26t04:03:54z (UTC{{{3|}}})</small>

===VANDALISM!!!===

STOP IT!!! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!! ****PROVE**** TO ME BN ORIGINATED IN TN...I DONT CARE FOR "ALL THE BOOKS" U READ!!! THE LINK YOU HAVE GIVEN IS BULLSHIT!!! YES BULLSHIT!!! WIKI IS NOT YOUR PRIVATE BATHROOM TO ATTRIBUTE EVERYTHING THAT IS GOOD TO TAMIL/TAMILIANS/TAMILNADU!!!

THE LINK THAT YOU HAVE GIVEN AND WHICH YOU SAY 'SEALS' THE MATTER, DOESNT SPEAK A WORD ABOUT BN'S ORIGINS!!! I AM REVERTING THIS AND IF YOU TELL ME ITS VANDALISM AM GOING TO THE ADMINS!!!

WHEN I CHANGED IT THE FIRS TIME U SAID I HAVE TO DISCUSS IT IN THE TALK PAGE BEFORE I REVERT....THEN I CAME AND POSTED IN THE TALK PAGE TOO. NO REPLY FROM YOU...THEN I CHANGED THE ARTICLE AND YOU COME AND TELL ME ITS VANDALISM!!! GO TAKE A JUMP!!<small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (] • ]) 2006-01-25t10:14:59z (UTC{{{3|}}})</small>

== Neutral pov ==

I'm going to work on moving this article to a neutral point of view. Any help is appreciated. ] 23:54, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

== It IS from Tamil Nadu and here are the links ==

I hope the bbc and The Hindu websites are proof enough, and that this will seal the controversy. Before reverting PLEASE CITE YOUR SOURCE. I'm getting tired of this...

http://www.thehindu.com/thehindu/mp/2003/06/25/stories/2003062500230100.htm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/shropshire/features/2003/03/annapurna_dance_03.shtml#theorigin

] 07:57, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

:''like the other user says, the hindu article does not speak abou BN's origins at all. so dont cite that for reference. it does not mean anything.

:as for the bbc article, it only talks about some Lord Shiva/cosmic dance legend/mythology. Legend and mythology isnt exactly history and is far from a verifiable fact. India is a land of a zillion legends and unending mythology....every state/city/town/village has its own legends. So dont confuse issues to suit your convenience.<small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (] • ]) 2006-01-25t17:29:04z (UTC{{{3|}}})</small>

:also the bbc article only says that the original manual is *NOW* in tanjore. it doesnt mean it was written in tanjore. and even if a manual is written in tanjore doesnt mean the art form should have originated there. and there is not way to say if that was the only copy of the manual that ever was written or existed...several such manuals might have been written in different places across india and they might just have been lost.<small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (] • ]) 2006-01-25t17:32:20z (UTC{{{3|}}})</small>

:'''Remove that claim.''' if you persist with your unsubstantiated claims that will give the licence to anybody to make any unsubstantiated claims...and when they do that if you complain of vandalism, that i should say is cheeky...not to mention, juvenile.''<small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (] • ]) 2006-01-25t17:29:04z (UTC{{{3|}}})</small>

Bharatanatyam is real.
Anyone in south india and sri lanka can tell this.

It is very famous.
I cannot cite sources as it is a local tradition,
If anyone feels it is a hoax,they should come to south india.
Ask anyone from south india ,they would have seen bharathanatyam.
It is a very difficult dance to perform.
] 05:45, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

== Degree Program in Bharatanatyam? ==

A degree programme for Indian dance (Bharatanatyam) has been created by the Alagappa Performing Arts Academy (APAA) of California, USA and the Alagappa University, Karaikudi, India. The courses offered include: Certificate in Bharatanatyam (one-year programme), Associate Degree in Bharatanatyam (Two-year programme), Diploma in Bharatanatyam (three-year programme) and B.A. degree in Bharatanatyam (four-year programme).
For more info, contact: info@alagappaarts.com,More info on the degree programme is available at http://www.bharathanatyamonline.com.
:This sounds a LOT like an advertisement for the college that offers a degree in Bharatanatyam. I propose changing the section to simply say "The popularity of Bharatanatyam is evident from the fact that some universities even offer full degree programs in it."] 18:05, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

I think we have to request the Alagappa Performing Arts Academy to stop their commerical spam on Misplaced Pages.
] 04:58, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

== Slapping a hoax tag on a page is not an appropriate action because you disagree with one statement on it ==
<small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (] • ]) 2006-02-06t01:33:53z (UTC{{{3|}}})</small>

==Languages Used==
bharatanatya is performed to karnatic(karnataka) music...and karnatic music was formulated and given a shape/grammar/syntax by the great Kannada saint and Father of Indian Classical Music, Shri. Puranadara Dasa...and Purandara Dasa composed *solely* in Kannada....<small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (] • ]) 2006-02-09t08:18:18z (UTC{{{3|}}})</small>

STOP MAKING BASELESS CLAIMS IN FAVOUR OF TAMIL...

while i do not disagree that tamil is also one of the languages used in bharatanatya, the claim that tamil is the language that is 'predominantly' used is probablly incorrect!! Avoid making incorrect claims... (Provide citations as needed)<small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (] • ]) 2006-09-22t15:56:35z (UTC{{{3|}}})</small>

== I guess anyone would like to take credit for this ancient art ==
For the past 20 years i always taught Bharatanatyam was one of Thamils
greatest cultural contribution to Indian culture. I guess nationalism,or better southern nationalism, wins.

http://www.tamilnation.org/culture/dance/index.htm <small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (] • ]) 2006-03-07t10:27:49z (UTC{{{3|}}})</small>

==My reverts==
I would like to know what commends ] image to its partisans. Some poster painter's garish folly, it arguably depicts an acrobat rather than a dancer. Look at the graceless contortion of the right leg. Is there any Bharatanatyam ''bangima'' which requires the knee to be placed on the ground and the foot raised into the air?? Such crap. Please do not revert. ] 12:59, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

:Dear ImpuMozhi, regarding Bharatanatyam ''bangima'', I would like to note that this particular image is valuable as it illustrates the particularities of the Mellatur (Mangudi) style of Bharatanatyam. You cannot expect everyone to display the Kalakshetra-style postures.<small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (] • ]) 2006-05-23t00:56:46z (UTC{{{3|}}})</small>

::Far too many images, looks like spamming of one URL; I've removed the majority -- ] 00:09, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

==Regarding Bharata Natayam and Tamil Nadu==
Is there a reason why you keep taking Tamil Nadu out of this article? Kuchipuddi is the dance of Andra Pradesh, Mohiniattam and Katha Kali are the dances of Kerala, and Bharata Natayam is the dance of Tamil Nadu. Is that so hard to comprehend? All the description of the other Classical dances of India explain what state it is from. You make it seem like it is an offence to post that its origins have its roots from Tamil Nadu. Come on now...
] 00:06, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

----
Here are a list of Classical dances of India which mention the state it came from.


] (Malayalam:കഥകളി ) is a form of Indian dance-drama. It originated in the Indian state of Kerala during the <br> century C.E.

] (కుచిపుడి) is a classical dance form from Andhra Pradesh, a state of South India.

] dance is one of the major Indian classical dance forms. It originates from Manipur, a state in north-eastern India

] (also spelled as mohiniattam or mohiniyattam; Malayalam: മോഹിനിയാട്ടം) is a traditional South Indian dance form from<br> Kerala, India.

] The classical dance style of Orissa - the land of temples, the land of sculptures.

] or Sattriya Nritya is one among the eight principal classical dance traditions of India. The others are<br> Bharatanatyam, Kathakali, Mohini Attam, Kuchipudi, Odissi, Kathak and Manipuri. The dance has its origin in Assam.

Please keep POVs (points of views) outside of wikipedia. Thank you.

==Regarding Tamil and Sanskrit in Bharata Natyam==

In the first place I do not know why the languages would have to be reverted. Secondly, Tamil was put before Sanskrit on the page since it is the indiguous language of Tamil Nadu. Sanskrit was later introduced to Southern India and is not indigenous to the region. At the same token of resepect, I am in no way putting Sanskrit down since it is a classical language. Much Regards.

] 03:30, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

::I have re-arranged the languages as per English alphabetical order.Pls see ] for the order in which scripts are written.-] 04:28, 6 November 2006 (UTC)


There have been some disputes between those who are against or for Tamil. Also, there have been a couple of people going to the extent to remove the Tamil script and even the place name of Tamil Nadu off this page. But, since you have stated that you are by arranging the scripts in alphabetical order and if that is a wikipedia procedure, then that is fine by me. By the way, please take a look at ] and ]. I have added Sanskrit to both those pages too. Regards.

] 05:01, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

::Much appreciated.-] 06:06, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

] is India-wide, ] is not. --] 03:03, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

==Censoring of quotes from original texts (Abhinayadarpanam, etc)==
I am amazed that the Vandals of Misplaced Pages believe that they have the right to alter the origital texts. If a text mentions it that a dancer should "have round breasts" (and not "pendant breasts"), no vandals have the right to edit it even if their wives have drooping breasts.<small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (] • ]) 2006-12-14t02:13:18z (UTC{{{3|}}})</small>
----

If you do not want this text altered by other users, then please quote the source where you got the information which includes that a dancer should "have well rounded breasts" otherwise this will be taken as a perverted form of Vandalism. Also, please refrain from personal attacks as per Misplaced Pages policy. Thank you. -- ] 03:41, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

==Yaksagana: Kannada Classical Dance==

Hello all,

I have just created a page for the Kannada Classical Dance called ]. Please feel free to contribute more to that page. Also added to Bharatanatyam page in the ''See Also'' section are the Telugu, Kannada, and Malayalam classical dances. Thank you.

] 07:41, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Yaksagana is not Dance It is more like Drama which involves some kind of Dance <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 21:38, 6 December 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== External links ==

Please note that Misplaced Pages articles should not link to:
#personal websites, e.g. sites with ~user in the URL
#sites hosted on free hosting services such as geocities
#commercial sites which sell any product, including videos, even if they have free trailers
I ask ] to please stop reverting my edits and FIND BETTER EXTERNAL LINKS!!! ] 11:27, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

:Since multiple editors keep restoring commercial and other inappropriate links, I've brought the situation to the attention of WikiProject Spam . Please note that removing the tag while the isssue is still under dispute is vandalism. Also note that calling my ] attempts to remove inappropriate links "vandalism" is a violation of the ]. Any further actions of this sort will result in warnings and reports, potentially leading to blocks. Don't do it. ] 15:23, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

::Comments:
::*Deleting inappropriate links in accordance with Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines is never a personal attack and never vandalism. Making false accusations of either, however, can get users sanctioned.
::*] has removed a number of inappropriate links. A few of the most flagrant examples:
::**Links to video stores -- free trailers are never a reason to do this.
::**Links to dancers' promotional pages
::**A link to webvoter.net -- for Pete's sake, this is an encyclopedia.
::**One site accused of copyright violations by another editor: site.voila.fr/bharatanatyam-dance

::Take a look at some of Misplaced Pages's rules.
::*], especially these sections:
::**From the introduction:
::***''"Some external links are welcome (see ], below), but it is not Misplaced Pages's purpose to include a comprehensive list of external links related to each topic. No page should be linked from a Misplaced Pages article unless its inclusion is justified."''
::**] -- here are just a few excerpts:
::***''"Links mainly intended to promote a website."''
::***''"Any site that does not provide a unique resource beyond what the article would contain if it became a ]."''
::***''"Links to sites that primarily exist to sell products or services."''
::***''"Links to blogs and personal webpages, except those written by a recognized authority."''
::**]:
::***''You should avoid linking to a website that you own, maintain or represent, even if the guidelines otherwise imply that it should be linked."''
::**]:
::***''"If you know that an external Web site is carrying a work in violation of the creator's copyright, do not link to that copy of the work. Knowingly and intentionally directing others to a site that violates copyright has been considered a form of ] in the United States (). Linking to a page that illegally distributes someone else's work sheds a bad light on Misplaced Pages and its editors."''
::*] -- especially these sections:
::**]:
::***''"Misplaced Pages is not a soapbox or a vehicle for propaganda and advertising."''
::**]
::*]:
::**''"Adding external links to an article or user page for the purpose of promoting a website or a product is not allowed, and is considered to be spam."''
::*]:
::**''"avoid linking to the Misplaced Pages article or website of your corporation in other articles (see ])."''
::*]

::A better place for many of these links is the ] (a.k.a. ]). This article is already linked to the appropriate Dmoz page. Links to Dmoz are strongly encouraged as an alternative to adding lots of inapprpriate links to Misplaced Pages; see ] for more about this.

::Please let ] and other ] continue their work unhindered. --] ] 18:56, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

:::Hello. I believe that, as long as a link is VALUABLE (i.e. highly relevant and providing useful additional info) and IS NOT commercial (i.e. they don't sell anything), it does not matter if the link is hosted on a free server or paid, geocities on aol. It is ridiculous!
:::Please stop the covering the vandalism with a pretext of fighting "spam"!
:::] 03:26, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

::::P.S. It is outrageous that some idiots think they can use "for Pete's sake, this is an encyclopedia" as a valid argument to continue their vandalism!!!
::::] 03:29, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

:::::], you are absolutely right -- were I vandalizing, ''"for Pete's sake, this is an encyclopedia"'' would be a pretty poor argument for doing so!

:::::For that matter, it wasn't a very good argument for deleting the webvoter.net link either, so it's a good thing I also cited the policies and guidelines above very extensively. I know you're brand-new today to Misplaced Pages, so you may wish to read them closely, especially the External Links Guideline. Once you've read over them, I think you'll understand why these links don't meet the rules.

:::::In the meantime, know that folks take vandalism and accusations of vandalism very seriously on Misplaced Pages -- here's what the ] Policy says:
:::::*''"A comment in an edit history such as "reverting vandalism" is not a personal attack if it's concerned with clear vandalism, although otherwise it is. "Vandalism" imputes bad intentions and bad motives to the person accused. If the edit that is being reverted could be interpreted as a good-faith edit, then don't label it as vandalism. See ] for what is and isn't vandalism."''
:::::Also: once in a while calling another editor such as myself an "idiot" is probably not officially a "personal attack" but it ''is'' ]. (As it happens, I've occasionally been called an idiot by colleagues, so at least you have some company.)

:::::Welcome to Misplaced Pages and I hope you will enjoy editing here. Regards, --] ] 04:07, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Dear A.B. & Ramachandran,
Please read the External Links Guideline once again. I do not know if you misinterpret them intentionally or unintentionally (maybe you do not understand the English language well?).
] 02:14, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

:See reply on ]. Why don't you respond below where the urls are reasons why they are inappropriate are listed? If you understand better than we do, then please explain for each URL you want to include why it is not commercial, etc.? ] 02:31, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

:: Hi, A Ramachandran & A.B.! :-) I do not understand why you approve one geocities link but are so much against in.geocities.com/medhahari/bharatanatyam/bharatanatyam.html . This page, indeed, cannot be treated as "personal" as has nothing to do with Medha Hari (no links to her, etc.).
:: ] 02:06, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

For starters the website is not universally accessible and contains rich media, which not everyone can access. The fact that te whole thing is littered with images doesn't help things - I have a fast connection, good computer, and it froze my browser while loading. ] 02:14, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

::], you raised some of the same questions below as well. I will answer you there. --] ] 02:56, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

== Order of standard appendices ==

There seems to be some confusion and edit warring going on over the order of appendices in this article. Per ], the order should be:
#Quotations (deprecated)
#See also
#Notes
#References (or combined with "Notes" into Notes and references)
#Further reading (or Bibliography)
#External links
I have corrected the article to follow the guideline. Further discussion here is welcome, of course. --&nbsp;<span style="font-family:Palatino Linotype">]</span> 18:20, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

:I have fixed this once again. The above policy is unambiguous and is to be followed on all articles. --&nbsp;<span style="font-family:Palatino Linotype">]</span> 13:54, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

== POVs, SPAM, and Vandalsim ==

As a reminder to all, please refrain from posting POVs and SPAM on this site. This can also consistute to vandalism. Furthermore there has been sock puppetry going on in this section. Sock puppetry is when a user uses multiple usernames to vandalize this site. The recent actions of these particular users have been reported to Administration. As per procedure I will not name the users on this talk page. Thank you.

] 04:53, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

== ] ==

Hi. I just removed two images with digital watermarks:
*]
*]

Perhaps there are other images without watermarks in Misplaced Pages's image files that could be used here. --] ] 04:49, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

:These images are excellent, and the watermarks ARE acceptable on Wiki.
:] 03:20, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

::Neither you nor I are the decision-makers as to what's acceptable in this case -- Misplaced Pages policy is. Here's what Misplaced Pages's ] says:
::*''"This page is an official policy on the English Misplaced Pages. It has wide acceptance among editors and is considered a standard that all users should follow."''
::*''"Also, user-created images may not be ], distorted, have any credits in the image itself or anything else that would hamper their free use, unless, of course, the image is intended to demonstrate watermarking, distortion etc. and is used in the related article. All photo credit should be in a summary on the ]."''
::--] ] 03:41, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

::::By the way, they really are nice images and I was sorry to delete them -- perhaps someone can see if the original uploaders ] (]) and ] (]) would be willing to make available copies without watermarks. --] ] 04:37, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

== Further discussion of links==
FYI, the kalakendra.com site whose links so many editors here have been so often deleting has been proposed for WikiMedia-wide -- all languages and all projects (Misplaced Pages, Wiktionary, etc.). See ]. --] ] 04:26, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
::Kalakendra.com is now ]. This list is publicly accessible and (depending on whom you believe) rumored by some to be used as an input by some search engines in figuring out their own of ]. --] ] 03:31, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

:::Remaining links:
:::*http://anigat.coolinc.info/indian-dance/Bharatanatyam_DVD_trailers_Indian_Dance_video_clips_Bharata_Natyam_Bharatnatyam.html
:::**appears to be associated with the video sales site, http://jayq.org
:::***owned by JayQ Networks Ltd, 62 Lytton Rd, Gisborne, New Zealand
:::****not needed; also dmoz.org links to multiple sources of streaming vidoes
:::***** Inappropriate per the ]
:::******Current of jayq.org links within Misplaced Pages: '''0''' at this time
:::******Current of coolinc.info links within Misplaced Pages: '''1''' at this time

:::*in.geocities.com/medhahari/bharatanatyam-bharathanatyam-bharata-natyam-bharatnatyam-video-dvd.html
:::*in.geocities.com/medhahari/bharatanatyam/bharatanatyam.html
:::**in.geocities.com/medhahari/ is a promotional site for the dancer ]. Internal wikilinks to ] are allowed depending on circumstances. One link to her external web site from her article is OK. In most cases, the ] prohibits links from other articles
:::***not needed here; also dmoz.org links to multiple dancers' web pages and multiple sources of streaming videos
:::****There are to this site from various Misplaced Pages articles -- I will ask ] people to review these for deletion elsewhere

:::*http://www.geocities.com/study_bharatanatyam_online/learn_bharata_natyam_bharatnatyam_bharathanatyam_courses.html
:::**Self-published but may meet ] given author's apparent "authority":
:::***''"Prof. R.Raju teaches at the School of Performing Arts, University of Pondicherry, and was a teacher in the Drama Department of Tamil University, Thanjavur. He is a well-known authority in the field of the classical Indian dance."''
:::****Current of these links within Misplaced Pages -- none besides this article
:::*****Only external links from this page are to sridevinrithyalaya.org -- what type of organization is this?
:::******Comments? (Please place them after this heavily indented and bulleted post of mine so we don't get confused as to who's saying what)

:::*http://www.pir.net/~beth/Dance/mudras.html
:::**Self-published, non-commercial page; probably does not meet the ]
:::***Current of these links within Misplaced Pages '''3''' -- all to ]
:::****Comments? (Please place them after this heavily indented and bulleted post of mine so we don't get confused as to who's saying what)

:::*http://www.sridevinrithyalaya.org/video.html
:::**Links to Sri Devi Nrithyalaya -- what type of organization is this? Is this an appropriate link?
:::***Current of these links within Misplaced Pages '''53''' at this time (most of them images and most of the images watermarked)
:::****Comments? (Please place them after this heavily indented and bulleted post of mine so we don't get confused as to who's saying what)

:::*http://www.tamilnation.org/culture/dance/index.htm
:::**Is tamilnation.org an appropriate link?
:::***Current of these links within Misplaced Pages '''437''' at this time
:::****Opinions? (Please place them after this heavily indented and bulleted post of mine so we don't get confused as to who's saying what)

:::*http://www.webvoter.net/en/vote.cgi?id=59352
:::**Never appropriate for Misplaced Pages linking
:::***Current of these links within Misplaced Pages -- not suprisingly, none elsewhere within all 1.6 million articles
:::--] ] 13:46, 11 January 2007 (UTC) <small>(comment further edited by --] ] 15:42, 11 January 2007 (UTC))</small>


::::For your kind information, there is NO MENTION OF and NO LINKS TO Medha Hari on in.geocities.com/medhahari/bharatanatyam/bharatanatyam.html
::::Don't be blind.
::::] 02:17, 12 January 2007 (UTC)


:::::], I see you're brand-new to editing Misplaced Pages. Welcome.

:::::I may well be blind as you put it, but let's look anyway at the Guideline and some of the links you just added:

:::::*http://dmoz.org/Arts/Performing_Arts/Dance/Classical_Indian/Bharata_Natyam/Dancers/
:::::**You changed the existing dmoz link so that it was only to the directory of dancers and not the previous broader list of resources including multiple sources of streaming videos, trailers and DVDs in addition to your links:
:::::***http://dmoz.org/Arts/Performing_Arts/Dance/Classical_Indian/Bharata_Natyam/
:::::****Why make this change?

:::::*in.geocities.com/medhahari/bharatanatyam/bharatanatyam.html Bharata natyam
:::::**Your comment: ''"NO MENTION OF and NO LINKS TO Medha Hari on in.geocities.com/medhahari/bharatanatyam/bharatanatyam.html"''
:::::***Interesting page: over 235 links are embedded in the source code that a search engine sees. Check these out:
:::::****in.geocities.com/medhahari/bharatanatyam-bharata-natyam-bharatnatyam-bharathanatyam-pictures.html
:::::****in.geocities.com/medhahari/bharata-natyam-bharathanatyam-bharatanatyam-bharatnatyam-photos.html
:::::****in.geocities.com/medhahari/bharata-natyam-bharathanatyam-bharatanatyam-bharatnatyam-videos.html
:::::****in.geocities.com/medhahari/index.html

:::::*http://anigat.coolinc.info/indian-dance/Bharatanatyam_DVD_trailers_Indian_Dance_video_clips_Bharata_Natyam_Bharatnatyam.html
:::::**As discussed previously, this is tied to the jayq.org DVD sales business. There's nothing dishonorable about selling DVDs, but it does not fit the Guideline you so forcefully told me to read:
:::::***''"Dear A.B. & Ramachandran, Please read the External Links Guideline once again. I do not know if you misinterpret them intentionally or unintentionally (maybe you do not understand the English language well?)"''
:::::****[[WP:EL#Links normally to be avoided|"Links normally to be avoided" -- ''"Links to sites that primarily exist to sell products or services."''

:::::*Finally, I note that we have a strong policy of ] here. I have a pretty thick skin, but you'll find others may not react as blandly to comments such as ''"maybe you do not understand the English language well"''.
:::::Cheers, --] ] 04:13, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

::::::Except for some image files and the ] article, in.geocities.com/medhahari/ links have been removed from all the other articles per ]:
::::::*]
::::::*]
::::::*]
::::::*]
::::::*]
::::::*]
::::::Please do not reinsert them in these articles. Thank you, --] ] 09:58, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

::::::: Can someone give a proper answer to my question before reverting???? ] 02:34, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Being unsatisfied with an answer is no reason to revert - please have a look at prior discussion as well as previous reverts, you will see that you are making exactly the same reverts as another user, I'm willing to assume good faith, but wait for a discussion to develop before reverting, thanks ] 02:39, 13 January 2007 (UTC)


1. ], I already addressed the issue of in.geocities.com/medhahari/bharatanatyam/bharatanatyam.html a day or two ago. Over 235 links are embedded in the source code that a search engine sees. Check these out:
:*in.geocities.com/medhahari/bharatanatyam-bharata-natyam-bharatnatyam-bharathanatyam-pictures.html
:*in.geocities.com/medhahari/bharata-natyam-bharathanatyam-bharatanatyam-bharatnatyam-photos.html
:*in.geocities.com/medhahari/bharata-natyam-bharathanatyam-bharatanatyam-bharatnatyam-videos.html
:*in.geocities.com/medhahari/index.html

2. You also raised concerns about the link to Dr. Raju's page at:
:*http://geocities.com/study_bharatanatyam_online/learn_bharata_natyam_bharatnatyam_bharathanatyam_courses.html
:I specifically addressed this the other day and included a link to the relevant Misplaced Pages guideline:
::*''"http://www.geocities.com/study_bharatanatyam_online/learn_bharata_natyam_bharatnatyam_bharathanatyam_courses.html"''
::**''"Self-published but may meet ] given author's apparent "authority":"''
::***''"Prof. R.Raju teaches at the School of Performing Arts, University of Pondicherry, and was a teacher in the Drama Department of Tamil University, Thanjavur. He is a well-known authority in the field of the classical Indian dance."''
::****''"Current of these links within Misplaced Pages -- none besides this article"''
::*****''"Only external links from this page are to sridevinrithyalaya.org -- what type of organization is this?"''
::******''"Comments? "''
::''"--A. B. (talk) 13:46, 11 January 2007 (UTC) (comment further edited by --A. B. (talk) 15:42, 11 January 2007 (UTC))"''
:Let us know your thoughts about Dr. Raju's link after you review the above.

3. Partisans of in.geocities.com/medhahari have never explained why they always change the dmoz.org link to exclude lists of links to other sources of DVDs and trailers. They substitute a link to a directory of dancers only. You did it yourself, changing
:*http://dmoz.org/Arts/Performing_Arts/Dance/Classical_Indian/Bharata_Natyam/Dancers/
:to the narrower category of dancers only:
:*http://dmoz.org/Arts/Performing_Arts/Dance/Classical_Indian/Bharata_Natyam
Why? What's your reasoning? The broader category still includes all the dancers of the narrower category -- so why are you doing this?<br>
--] ] 03:18, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

==Medha Hari spam on Misplaced Pages==

Too many indents above, so dont know who's replying to whom. But I get the drift of the conversation and here are my views. This Medha Hari thing and all thos photographs of literal non entities on the page is apalling. This is spam, blatant advertisement and vanity all rolled into one. To the original poster - did you say that this sridevin<s>e</s>rithralaya.org site has been successfully blacklistted on wiki? If so, can I remove all those ugly pictures of those non entities that are taking wikipedia and its readers for a ride? I just dont want to be reported for vandalism when I remove all of them ''en masse''. ] 05:24, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

::Medha Hari sites were just blacklisted an hour or so ago. Here's the blacklist request:
::*]
::**The links in that request will give you the background on much of this
::sridevinethralaya.org has not been blacklisted. (Should it be?)

::I'm just the spam cleanup guy here -- I leave editorial decisions including image selection to others. --] ] 05:34, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

:::Ok. Thanks for the clarification. But I have a very important question about this article and Misplaced Pages in general. My understanding and opinion is that every bit or byte invested on the article page should be notable and encyclopedic. My concerns are regarding the half dozen pics on the article page. All of them seem to come from sridevin<s>e</s>rithralaya.org. The problem here is that the dancers in the pics are literally 'nobodies' in the field. One of the pics is clearly from some college fest or something! All of them are amateurs and nobody knows their credentials. Having their pics on the article page dedicated to this art may mislead ignorant readers into thinking that they are somehow representative of the art. Which they are not. While many wiki laws and guidelines are there to regulate prose content, can nothing be done about the pictures? Please throw some light on this. ] 05:41, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

::::: Hi Sarvagnya! I don't see "half a dozen pictures" here. Even if there were any, it is an article on Bharatanatyam, and not on hydrocarbons, and hence the need for illustrations, don't you think? I do agree with you that "the pics are literally 'nobodies' in the field", however, don't you agree that the "seniors" (e.g. Padma Subramaniam) would look far uglier, as they cannot even lift their legs? :-) OK, why don't you post Alarmel Valli's picture, for a variety? Maybe, Urmila Sathyanarayans? As for the rest.... You know, after watching those old fat ladies posing as "notable Bharatanatyam exponents", I much prefer to see SriDeviNrithyalaya's dancers pictures! ] 12:49, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

::::You say Medha Hari ''site'''s''''' were blacklisted. Does that include medha.org also? If so, I will be removing a picture taken from that site and plastered on the article page. ] 05:58, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

:::::''"While many wiki laws and guidelines are there to regulate prose content, can nothing be done about the pictures? Please throw some light on this."''
:::::*See ] -- go for it. I appreciate your work on this.
:::::--] ] 13:49, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

:::::: I do not see the reasons how these sites violate any of Misplaced Pages's policies. Please quote clearly. ] 16:02, 28 February 2007 (UTC)


::::::: The article now begins with warning against adding "possibly inappropiate external link to an article". After spending quite a while scrutinizing this discussion page, I fail to see how some of the links, such as the Bharatanatyam page on M.Hari's web site, can ever be <i>"inappropriate"</i>. I guess that some over-zealous "spam-fighters" should temper down their zeal and cool down. ] 10:46, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

==Blanking & vandalism of valid external links==
Please do not remove Tamilnation.org links as there is no restriction anywhere. What is written in the diff you have . Its not a community consensus proceedings. Moreover, the admin ] didn't say a word about Tamilnation.org. Provide 'relevant' diffs before you proceed and blank the material ] 19:06, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
:Please see ]. The link provided is a research paper and has nothing to do with the article. The paper was published 40 years ago, contains original research and biased view of the author. Linking such articles either as a source or external link is against wikipedia policies. Thanks ] 19:12, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
:: You are right; that article contains original research about Bharathanatyam. Misplaced Pages doesn't allow its users to conduct OR not all the people in the world for God's sake. If thats the case, we can not have any article on relativity since its OR. :)))) I can't believe this :) ] 19:26, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
:::Not all, but an age old "research" paper from a blacklisted site is certainly OR. And please learn to read the diffs properly before accusing someone of lying. Thanks ] 19:32, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
::::FYI: Age does not matter here. The special theory of relativity paper is even older. huh. BTW: regarding diff, see my reply below. ] 19:36, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
::::: Do not accuse some website without proof. Show me proof of your 'blacklist' comment. And, don't show me an user's opinion in a diff. ] 19:43, 14 March 2007 (UTC)


:To Praveen:
:Have you seen the I have provided?
:It clearly says as below:
{{cquote|'''Tamil Nation is an obvious partisan commentary website and doesn't write in a neutral tone at all. It appears to be a political organisation supporting the Tamil Tigers or something.'''}}

:I hope this stops the revert war and addition of the same external link again. - ] <sup> ''']'''</sup> 19:23, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::You provided link before. Now you changed it. Anyways, the discussion you provided is not a community consensus; its merely one user's view point. Nothing more nothing less. There is no ban on tamilnet website itself let alone tamilnation.org. Moreover, the research paper is not related to LTTE which was the subject of your diff. I will also find the same paper from library and provide link. ] 19:34, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

:::'''Saravagina and KNM:''' If it's not broke, don't fix it. I have left your Yakshagana article alone. I advice you guys to do the same for this article. ] 20:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
::::''Your'' Yakshagana article? What are you talking about Wiki Raja? Please see ]. You really need to read some Wiki policies, atleast from now on. I just removed irrelevant external links according to ], in order to '''improve''' article. Again, please see ]. The link provided doesn't qualify to be an external link due to it's biased nature and irrelevancy to the article. Thanks ] 20:14, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::::Excuse me, but that message was or Sarvagnya and KNM. Why are you answering? Also, it is very strange during mutliple reverts how the three of you take turns. Books along with their page numbers are included for the referenced sources. If you do not consider that proper sourcing, then what is? Your guys POV, simple saying things without providing any references, making up stories as one goes? I have had enough of your guys prejudistic antics. ] 20:23, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
:::::Which sources are you disputing? Encyclopedia Brintannica?? thats insane. Please write which sources are disputed before putting up the tags. ] 21:17, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::::::Some minds are so twisted that they will literally dispute the sky being blue, and the grass being green. ] 21:23, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
:::::::Another basic Misplaced Pages policy for Wiki Raja - ]. ''The threshold for inclusion in Misplaced Pages is verifiability, not truth''. ] 21:37, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
:::::::Gnanapiti, please see ]. Thanks. ] 21:42, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

:::::::: Reported to ]. see . <small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (] • ]) 22:06, 14 March 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->

:::::::::Gnanapiti, you are contradicting yourself. I have provided verifyalbe source from the following texts:
:::::::::*International Tamil Language Foundation (2000). The Handbook of Tamil Culture and Heritiage. Chicago: International Tamil Language Foundation, p. 1201.<br>
:::::::::*Kilger, George (1993). Bharata Natyam in Cultural Perspective. New Delhi: Manohar American Institute of Indian Studies, p. 2.<br>
:::::::::*Nayagam, X.S. Thani (1970). Tamil Culture and Civilization. London: Asia Publishing House, pp. 120-121.

:::::::::It seems that you guys have deliberately removed them which constitutes to vandalism. Another baisc Misplaced Pages policy for ], ], and ] - ]. Vandalism is any addition, removal, or change of content made in a deliberate attempt to compromise the integrity of Misplaced Pages. ] 21:51, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
::::::::::''Removed them?'' When? What? Where? Why? How? ] 21:56, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
:::::::::::Stop playing innocent. ] 22:07, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
::::::::::::Man this is hilarious. :D Show me where anyone has removed your references. Give me the diff.] 22:10, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
:::::::::::::You guys have done so , , , and just in case you all have forgotten. ] 22:23, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Did someone get caught with their hand in the cookie jar? ] 02:27, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

::::::::::::::: Guys, why not stop all these stupid altercations and restore all the relevant external links that really provide the expanded info on Bharatanatyam? Or will it harm someone's pseudo-intellectual pride if he sees, for example, http://in.geocities.com /medhahari/bharatanatyam/bharatanatyam.html in the external links??? ] 14:03, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

==How to cite material from Tamilnation==
The material from Tamilnation is not original material by anyone associated with Tamilnation. It is paper publshed in a conference where peer reviewed paper are presented by reputable authors of the field. Wiki cite has a way tocite such material that is not directly available.

===Option 1===
ref cite web
*| title = XXXXXXXXXX
*| work = Quoted from the the Conference........, ]
*| publisher = Tamilnation, USA
*| url = http://www.tamilnationorg/..... /ref

===Option 2===
Forget about the link itself, simply quote from the published paper from the conference. This is more acceptable as long as the material is used for main body of the material.

This is how salvagable material from otherwise non RS sources are used in Misplaced Pages. ] 21:13, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

:Tamilnation.org is also a virtual library with sources from books, in some cases the full version of particular books are available on that site. Also, there are sources from various newspapers and media around the world on TamilNation. ] 22:12, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

== Dispute, protection ==

I see that disputes over this have escalated to the point of article protection, which seems rather disproportionate to the subject. May I suggest that everybody cool off a bit and remember that the world will not be made or broken by Misplaced Pages's article on a classical dance form.

In general, in a controversial matter we should attempt to cite the differing views, attribute them appropriately, give them "column inches" roughly in proportion to their respective acceptance among scholars, and make sure that our narrative voice does not take a stance on the matter.

That said, it would probably be useful in moving matters forward if someone would attempt a '''neutral''' statement of what is currently in dispute, because the discussion above seems to me to shed more heat than light. - ] | ] 07:42, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
:The dispute stems from following issues.
::1. Removal of cited material along with non-cited material which resulted in edit-war .
::2. The questioning of sources for origin of bharathanatyam. The sources are a) Encyclopedia Britannica website. b) ''The Handbook of Tamil Culture and Heritage''.
::3. Removal of external link which pointed to a research paper hosted by tamilnation.org website. ] 17:50, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
::: I think that ] is right that we need a '''neutral''' statement here: why not simply state "from South India", rather than "Tamil Nadu"?

My quick impressions, for what they may be worth:
#. I would think that the Kilger book should be perfectly citable ''for what it says''. Does the book explicitly tie the dance in question to Bharatanatyam or any other folk or classical form?
#. a) The ''Britannica'' website is usually a poor choice of source for anything other than dates. They are doubtless an excellent site, but, in general, encyclopedias shouldn't merely cite other general encyclopedias, and in particular, we should be careful about drawing any content beyond facts in the narrowest sense (dates, for example) from what is, in many respects, a rival: we should be rigorously scrupulous about their intellectual property rights, well beyond what is required by the law. b) I know nothing about ''The Handbook of Tamil Culture and Heritage''.
#. As I understand it, tamilnation.org would not, itself, be a particularly trustworthy source. What is the publication history of the research paper? Has it appeared in a peer-reviewed journal? If so, it should be citable; someone having an online copy is relevant only in terms of providing a convenience link.
- ] | ] 06:53, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi.... please add this template at the bottom of the page. The page is currently locked.
Template:{{{Indian classical dance}}}
btw, this fight is ridiculous, unworthy of our community.
] 00:27, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

:What community? ] 05:34, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

: Adding template. - ] | ] 21:44, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

:::''a) The ''Britannica'' website is usually a poor choice of source for anything other than dates. They are doubtless an excellent site, but, in general, encyclopedias shouldn't merely cite other general encyclopedias, and in particular, we should be careful about drawing any content beyond facts in the narrowest sense (dates, for example) from what is, in many respects, a rival: we should be rigorously scrupulous about their intellectual property rights, well beyond what is required by the law. b) I know nothing about ''The Handbook of Tamil Culture and Heritage''.''
::I have used encyclopedia Britannica as reference since it unequivocally states the origin of bharathanatyam as 'Tamilnadu'. This issue of origin was the major reason for the past edit wars. Since EB is a respectable source, I used it to reinforce the fact in contention. There is no question of copy right here. ] 15:07, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

== Some images ==

When people are done arguing and the article is unlocked, someone may want to use one of the photos I've placed at ]. I won't be watchlisting this, this is pretty far outside my usual areas of work; I had just looked in because I had taken the pictures. - ] | ] 21:49, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
:: With all due respect to Chitra Visweswaran, I wonder if we should respect more the Natya Shastra's criteria of who is a dancer and who is not. Could you provide Chitra's earlier photos where she looks more or less in good shape? If you look at the other dance form articles here, for some reason they do not dare to put the out-of-shape dancers' photos there so that people would not laugh at some fat old matrons posing as "senior" ballet dancers, for example. ] 13:53, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

==More sources==

*"Bharata Natyam is the subtle and sophisticated dance art of ''Tamil Nadu''."''<ref name=Samson>{{cite book |last= Samson |first= Leela |authorlink= |title= Rhythm in Joy: Classical Indian Dance Traditions |year= 1987 |publisher= Lustre Press Pvt. Ltd. |location= New Delhi |pages= p. 29}}</ref>

*"It is commonly believed that the name Bharata Natyam stands for Indian Dance. This misconception arises from the paramount status this classical dance style of ''Tamil Nadu'' has come to occupy in India and abroad. However, aficionados of the style point out that the term came into usage not more than about fifty years ago. Earlier, it had been referred to variously as ''sadir kacheri'' (''sadir'', dancer, ''kacheri'', audience), ''chinnamelam'' (small assembly, as distinct from ''periyamelam'', large conclacve—usually a musicl recital) or ''dasiattam'', from the temple devadasis who performed it."<ref name=Samson/>

*"Actually the Bharata Natyam tradition of ''Tamilnadu'' does not limit itself to the solo dances we see generally performed by women. Even in ''Tamilnadu'' there survives to this day, albeit in an attenuated form, another variety of Bharata Natyam, which takes the shape of a ballet which is performed by men alone, and which is known as the ''Bhagabata Mela Nataka''. In fact the ''Kuchipudi'' and the ''Bhagavata Mela Nataka'' both stem from the mother art, Bharata Natyam, and both have much in common in the matter of themes, technique and presentation."<ref>{{cite book |last= Banerjee |first= Projesh |title= Indian Ballet Dancing |year= 1983 |publisher= Abhinav Publications |location= New Jersey |pages= p. 43}}</ref>

*"The home of the type of dancing known as Bharata Natya is South India, more specifically the Madras presidency as it was called by the British, or ''Tamil Nad'', as it is now known, the land of the ''Tamils''. Tamil Nadu constitutes the major portion of southeast India. At various periods of history, Tamil kings have stretched their rule to the western coast, far north, and across the sea to the east. The tremendous commercial and religious expansion two thousand years ago, which gave all southeast Asia the stamp of Indian culture it still bears, stemmed first from private enthusiasm of the Tamils and later from the expansionistic courts of their kings. Tamil merchants, priests, warriors, dancers, and scholars spilled over geographical boundaries and, in expanding, shared their culture with vast home and overseas areas."''<ref name=Bowers>{{cite book |last= Bowers |first= Faubion |title= The Dance in India |year= 1967 |publisher= AMS Press, Inc. |location= New York |pages= pp. 13 & 15}}</ref>

*"Among the ''Tamils'' of South India dance flourished. Dravidian religious fervor and artistic flair were responsible for this to a great extent. But the Tamils had another advantage. The geographical distance from the Muslim invaders, who began their conquest of India in the twelfth century, enabled them to maintain their culture. Safe from the artistically inimical influence of the Muslims, Bharata Natya prospered particularly in the Tanjore area of Tamil Nadu."<ref name=Bowers/>
<br>
===References===
<div class="references-small">
<references/>
</div>
<br>

''' I have salvaged some useful information that was selectively blanked ]. ] 15:31, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

==The status of this article==
In my view, an important article like this should be in much better shape. Right now it is in a VERY BAD shape. The same with the ] page. Some editors don't seem to appreciate the genuine contributions of Tamil culture and they are hell bent in discrediting its role in shaping the cultural history of south India. The parallel seminal contributions of Kannada, Telugu, Malayalam should be made, but why deny Tamil's role and evidences? Multiple views, if they exist, can be elegantly and truthfully expressed in an article without disrupting the information flow or the tone of the article. If there are neutral editors here, they should check out the archived carnatic music page to see who were all active in this heavy anti-tamil attitude and how articles get mangled by this behaviour. On the same score any neutral editor should go back and check Kannada-related pages like ] etc. and see how peacefully they were developed. I would request my kannada-loving editors to be more constructive. I very well know that n-number of tangential comments can be made to outright dismiss these concerns, but I hope that some better sense will prevail. I'm truly concerned that a number of important culture-related pages of south India are ruined this way. Time is precious for everyone. Let there be some constructive and balanced approach. --] 23:07, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
:if only some tamil users stopped carting cock and bull stories from kumari kandam and pavanar school we could actually make some progress on these articles. if only some tamil users would let go of their delusions that tamil and tamilians preceded dinosaurs and every other life form on earth, we could make some progress. if only some tamil users stopped foisting fantastic hoaxes like BN(and CM) is of tamil origin by citing blatantly partisan pamphlets handed out at some tamil convention or the work of some blatantly partisan author, we could make some progress. if only, some tamil users could stop seeing Bharatanatya and CM in silapp., when it could very well be ] and Gaana pattu, we could make some progress. if only, if only, if only... huh. ] 23:23, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
:::Sarvagnya, you're actually proving how biased yo're! Whether you like it or not CM and BN are of Tamil origin and development, it is not a claim that Tamils are of pre-dinosaur origin. You're welcome to question anything, but if you believe that the tamil contributions to Carnatic Music (CM) and BN are "fatastic hoaxes", you've to prove them. The work ] and ] do speak eloquently of the classical dance and music. The very word 'arangERam' is from Silappathikaram (~4th-5th century work). I tell you frantkly, I can stop at this moment and I'm not interested in any edit wars with you. Truth can not be hidden and even if you try to block it for some time, you can not do it for ever. It is always a good thing to approach it honestly and with an open mind. So many india-related artilce are so well written and it is a proud fact, but some of the key articles like CM and BN are is such bad shape. I'm quite sure you can help to make it better.--] 00:08, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
::::The Kilger book is not some pamphlet grade material projected as historical book (unlike the 'Kamath''s). ] 00:57, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

==First Para==
I've moved the various alternative spelling variations and the Indic scripts to the footnote.
The references are quite fine and they are actually from the already published sources and there is no need to further verify. This kind of tags can be added to any source. Reworded some of the sentences.--] 00:08, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

==Shall we remove the reference to Britannica?==
To anyone who is familiar with Bharatanatyam, some statements like
"Bharata-natya was originally performed exclusively by female temple dancers and was not brought to the stage for public performance until about 1930." sound obviously false. After all, it was Bharata Muni and his sons who first practised Natya, wasn't it? ] 14:33, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

==WikiProject Dravidian civilizations==
<center>]</center>
] 10:30, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

==Tamil, Tamilians, Tamil, Tamil, Tamil???==
Today I had to delete the ridiculous instance of Tamilian stupidity: the original sentence was "The movements of an authentic Tamilians Bharatanatyam dancer"! What, nobody saw how stupid this sentence was? Show this sentence to any Tamilian Bharatanatyam dancer and they will laugh at you!

I admit that Tamil Nadu is nowadays de-facto a home of Bharatanatyam, and most Bharatanatyam dancers are actually Tamil, Chennai is the capital of Bharatanatyam, most contemporary compositions are in Tamil, etc., but I think some Tamilian contributors have gone too far in editing this article. Please stop or else I will ask all Telugu or Kannagis to vandalise it in their own way.

] (]) 05:09, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

==Removing WikiProject templates==
'''Dineshkannambadi:''' please stop removing the WikiProject Dravidian civilizations and WikiProject Tamil civilizations templates. Furthermore these are not fake templates, but templates of actual WikiProjects. ] (]) 03:10, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

'''Gnanapiti:''' please stop removing the WikiProject Dravidian civilizations and WikiProject Tamil civilizations templates. These are not irrelevant templates as you say, but templates of actual WikiProjects. ] (]) 06:18, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

'''Comment:''' Ok, something really fishy is going on since there doesn't seem to be a history of my discussion to Dineshkannambadi and Gnanapiti . ] (]) 04:41, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
:'''Reply'''': Per ]'s in your talk page and , it is clear that there is nothing fishy going on. - ] <sup> ''']'''</sup> 07:23, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


== Inaccurate Information ==

After reviweing the article several times and referring to authentic articles it is concluded that this article has several inaccurate statements about South Indian Classical dance also kown as Bharatanatya. Errors are already pointed out by several reputed editors but none have been incorporated. The article needs to be significantly modified in the interest of Misplaced Pages readers. If some editors insist to retain the current information that is specific to a state, then the name of the article need to be changed to 'Bharatanatyam of ??? state' and a separate article is needed to represent South Indian Classical Dance.

'''Correction1: To be accurate the first sentence of lead should read as'''


Bharatanatyam also called Bhratanatya, is a classical dance form originating from ] community of South India based on the basic principles written in ] by ], the author of the Natya Shastra (Principles of Dance).

] (]) 01:59, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

== Stop Vandalising ==


please do not vandalise . kannada's classical dance is ] edit those if you must.It's a classical national art form of the state of Karnataka in India. The edit of Bharatanatyam needs ], ], ]. ] (] • ]) 16:25, 15 September 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->



== Do not Vandalise further , stop it ==

Ur comment have no bearing on or connection with the subject at issue; its INAPPLICABLELY ,irrelevant, digressive and extraneous.
Are you living in the jurassic era ? Logical argument in wikiworkgroup is accepted as "rational" if it is logically valid , No one cares what you knew
who told you what , what you read or how you think - follow the wikipedia community rules by attesting to ], ], ] on
all embedded statements, either its an alteration of previously agreed compilation or sudden principal adjustment@revision of the maintained article.

If you are new to wikipedia; Apprehand all wiki's user community philosophies ; rationality and logical reasonning with refernce are the key methods used to analyze the data gathered through systematically
accumulated of agreed conclusion for years. No one jumps in with major primal alteration with baseless thoughts of personal vendetta. If you insist then attest to ], ], ] by acknowledging valid references
on your claim. Its not about what you thought you know or what you belive you read or how your lingual patriotic feelings drives you.

your IP address point you to be from India of the Indian state of karnataka, somewhere whithin or around Bangalore. Please acknowledge this message not as an Indian amature but rather a professional contributer.
Do not seek further damage to this article without the above mentioned attestment. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 00:18, 16 September 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


== Write as a contributor, not as a racist ==

I have seen it lot of times, people removing Tamil from the page again and again. It is a known fact that BHARATANATYAM originated in Tamilnadu. It is like saying Kadhakali is not from Kerala and Kuchipudi is not from Andhra. All this envy only because BHARATANATYAM is our National Dance? Grow Up! <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 18:39, 2 April 2009 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Discussion Points==

Bharata natyam was written in the early ages in Sanskrit, Tamil writers how far they are influenced by Sanskrit? It is well known that Tamilnadu, Tanjore quartets refined the Bharat natyam. But why the origin is credited to Tamil Nadu? Also the bharata natyam was refined by many gurus as well, This is in Indian culture, and famous refinement is coming from Tamil Nadu, However It was practiced and refined in both Karnataka and Andhrapradesh. I dont blame the current generation of Tamil people for this because any names in their text books are written with adding "an' at the end for e.g "Tyagarajan" which misleads all these are tamil people etc. hence it is like when they read actually they are reading many different cultures.

I think we need a discussion before changing any of these changes. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 18:03, 30 September 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

==Can editors Please Lock This page==

It Seems that illogical comments are being written in this article. Can we lock this page till everybody discuss the points?

1. Bharat muni wrote Natyashastra in Sanskrit (Not Tamil)
2. Refining the bharatanatyam Credit cannot be taken as Originated
3. If a concrete proof of Bharata Muni's place is not provided no body can claim this as originated from a state. This is not correct eiether, Because Tamil nadu was Not tamil Nadu alone when the Bharata natya was Originated
4. What is Tamil Classical Music??? (Is that meant for carnatic Music ???)

let us please write facts and correct representation rather than showing the state emotions.
\\(] (]) 23:07, 2 October 2009 (UTC))

==Bharata Natyam is from South India==
Those who are writing Bharatnatyam is from Tamilnadu, eiether they do not know or they are referring to some articles written with lack of knowledge.

Referenece Books:

1. Bharatanatyam (Paperback)by Ashish Mohan Khokar (Author) "Bharatanatyam is among the oldest and most popular of India's classical dance styles..." (more)

2. At Home in the World: Bharata Natyam on the Global Stage (Paperback)by Janet O'Shea
Janet O'Shea (Author) <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 20:08, 3 October 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== To add ==

1. Wearing of bells around the ankles

2. Painting of the fingers and palms with red paint

3. Information about Sabha like Ganamukundhapriya.

4. Tradition of Margazhi season at Chennai.

5. Natyanjali at Chidambaram <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 14:18, 21 August 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

] (]) 06:17, 25 November 2009 (UTC)


Can somebody change 'nagaswaram' to 'nathaswaram' or 'nadaswaram' in the accompanying instruments section?
] (]) 03:16, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

== Fifth Veda? ==

I have removed the unsourced statement "One of the oldest of the classical dance forms in India, it is also known as the ]", as I have not been able to find this confirmed in any source, but perhaps I have not searched well enough. What I found is that the ], authored by ], is considered as a fifth Veda. Could anyone confirm that Bharata Natyam and fifth Veda are indeed unrelated. If so, the statements has been copied into a few other Misplaced Pages pages, where they should be removed as well then. ] (]) 15:02, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
:I have cleaned up ] a bit as well. ] (]) 15:32, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

== Requested move ==
<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"><!-- Template:RM top -->
:''The following discussion is an archived discussion of a ]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. ''

The result of the move request was: '''page moved''' by silent consensus. ]&nbsp;<sup><b>(])</b></sup> 01:41, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

----

] → {{no redirect|1=Bharata Natyam}} — This title is used in most reliable sources. ] (]) 14:07, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a ]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.</div><!-- Template:RM bottom -->
==File:Bharat Natyam dance performance.jpg Nominated for Deletion==
{|
|-
| ]
| An image used in this article, ], has been nominated for deletion at ] in the following category: ''Deletion requests November 2011''
;What should I do?
''Don't panic''; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
* If the image is ] then you may need to upload it to Misplaced Pages (Commons does not allow fair use)
* If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no ] then it cannot be uploaded or used.

''This notification is provided by a Bot'' --] (]) 11:58, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
|}
==File:Bharat natyam 2010.jpg Nominated for Deletion==
{|
|-
| ]
| An image used in this article, ], has been nominated for deletion at ] in the following category: ''Deletion requests November 2011''
;What should I do?
''Don't panic''; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
* If the image is ] then you may need to upload it to Misplaced Pages (Commons does not allow fair use)
* If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no ] then it cannot be uploaded or used.

''This notification is provided by a Bot'' --] (]) 11:58, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
|}

==Bharata Natyam vandalism==
I have just repaired vandalism by user 123.126.29.74 How are vandals tracked down and reprimanded? How should I report vandalism besides noting it on the page? Thanks a mil ] (]) 06:01, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

== § ] ==

Isn't it possible that this "recent name" simply means "Indian dance", from Hindi भारत ''Bhārata'' "India", rather than an ] or the name of the traditional author of the Natya Shastra? If you would like to discuss this with me, please {{Tn|Ping}} me. ] (]) 06:23, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

== ] to appear as POTD ==
Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that ] will be appearing as ] on January 28, 2015. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at ]. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the ]. Thanks!&nbsp;—&nbsp;] (]) 14:08, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
{{POTD/2015-01-28}}

== the feat of one individual ==

''...a story line that can be easily followed by the feat of one individual.'' I was unable to penetrate this, so I quit at this point. Can anyone improve this observation?--] (]) 05:00, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

==Move discussion in progress==
There is a move discussion in progress on ] which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. <!-- Talk:Lindy hop crosspost --> —] 07:30, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

==Move discussion in progress==
There is a move discussion in progress on ] which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. <!-- Talk:Lindy Hop crosspost --> —] 17:45, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

== 'Among courtesan classes' ==

What are 'courtesan classes' in India? The word 'courtesan' is not a synonym of "courtly".] (]) 12:50, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
:It should be linked to ] but I guess during some copyedit of the past the link or term was replaced. &mdash;]''']''' 13:52, 17 June 2016 (UTC)

== Requested move 17 June 2016 ==

{{requested move/dated|Bharatanatyam}}

] → {{no redirect|Bharatanatyam}} – Bharatanatyam is the more common name. While Encyclopedia Britannica seems to prefer the , they are mostly alone. The earlier move to this name didn't seem to attract any attention, so it happened by default, therefore I'm requesting a move back to the original title. The following table is a comparison of some sources in the different variants of English. Also, MOS:TIES should be applicable here as this is a topic that has a significant tie to the country (India). India's national academy of music and dance -- ] uses almost exclusively. &mdash;]''']''' 14:26, 17 June 2016 (UTC)

Adding a comparison table:
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Source
! English variant
! Usage for Bharata Natyam
! Usage for Bharatanatyam
|-
| ]
| ]
|
|
|-
| ]
| ]
|
|
|-
| ]
| ]
|
|
|-
| ]
| ]
|
|
|-
| ]
| ] (])
|
|
|-
| ]
| ] (])
|
|
|}
That should be about enough for now. &mdash;]''']''' 14:26, 17 June 2016 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 18:05, 7 November 2024

This  level-4 vital article is rated B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
WikiProject iconIndia: Karnataka / Tamil Nadu Top‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject India, which aims to improve Misplaced Pages's coverage of India-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page.IndiaWikipedia:WikiProject IndiaTemplate:WikiProject IndiaIndia
TopThis article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by WikiProject Karnataka (assessed as High-importance).
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by WikiProject Tamil Nadu (assessed as Top-importance).
WikiProject iconDance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Dance, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Dance and Dance-related topics on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DanceWikipedia:WikiProject DanceTemplate:WikiProject DanceDance
WikiProject Dance To-do list:
WikiProject iconHinduism Mid‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Hinduism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Hinduism on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HinduismWikipedia:WikiProject HinduismTemplate:WikiProject HinduismHinduism
MidThis article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject iconVisual arts
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Visual arts, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of visual arts on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Visual artsWikipedia:WikiProject Visual artsTemplate:WikiProject Visual artsvisual arts


Archives

1


This page has archives. Sections older than 90 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III.

padma not cover in this

padma not cover in this 223.178.212.117 (talk) 18:05, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Categories: