| Revision as of 03:05, 17 December 2018 editSeahawk01 (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users1,444 edits →alternative← Previous edit | Latest revision as of 16:40, 9 November 2024 edit undoMusikBot II (talk | contribs)Bots, Interface administrators, Administrators102,894 editsm Removing protection templates from unprotected page (more info)Tag: Manual revert | ||
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| {{talkheader}} | {{talkheader}} | ||
| * Old talk archives: ] | |||
| == plan to update page == | == plan to update page == | ||
| {{Moved discussion |
{{Moved discussion to|Misplaced Pages talk:IRC/wikipedia-en-help|2= ] (]) 01:15, 20 December 2018 (UTC)}} | ||
| Hello, I am planning on updating this page and also: | |||
| == Proposal to remove IRC chat from WP:Questions page == | |||
| * ] (]) | |||
| {{Moved discussion to|Misplaced Pages talk:IRC/wikipedia-en-help|2= ] (]) 01:15, 20 December 2018 (UTC)}} | |||
| == I would like to ask everyone posting here to identify their relationship to IRC == | |||
| also, I am planning on updating how information is displayed about IRC on: | |||
| {{Moved discussion to|Misplaced Pages talk:IRC/wikipedia-en-help|2= ] (]) 01:15, 20 December 2018 (UTC)}} | |||
| == my reply to ] == | |||
| * ] (]) | |||
| {{Moved discussion to|Misplaced Pages talk:IRC/wikipedia-en-help|2= ] (]) 01:15, 20 December 2018 (UTC)}} | |||
| == #wikipedia-mediation == | |||
| I have two primary concerns that I wish to put forward: | |||
| Why do we still have #wikipedia-mediation? I thought ] got closed down.] (]) 04:47, 9 January 2021 (UTC) | |||
| # more general information for users, and especially new users, about how to approach IRC | |||
| # outline policy on how IRC users should edit Misplaced Pages (example: posting IRC logs on talk pages) | |||
| == Error: you are banned == | |||
| I plan to do this over the next month a little at a time and am very open to discussions, reaching consensus, etc. | |||
| I do not remember if I was ever banned from using IRC, but anytime I join a Misplaced Pages channel with the username "AwesomeAasim", it gives the error "You are banned". Does a channel mod want to investigate? ] (]) 08:54, 24 February 2021 (UTC) | |||
| Thanks! | |||
| :{{u|Awesome Aasim}}, currently the IRC channels are restricted to users who are registered on Freenode due to a spambot attack. It is likely to remain so for at least the next 6-8 hours. ] (]) 08:56, 24 February 2021 (UTC) | |||
| ::okay I registered a nickname with IRC. The end. ] (]) 19:33, 24 February 2021 (UTC) | |||
| == "Misplaced Pages:Chat" listed at ] == | |||
| ] | |||
| A discussion is taking place to address the redirect ]. The discussion will occur at ] until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> ] (] | ]) 02:28, 25 February 2021 (UTC) | |||
| == Bug won't allow me in == | |||
| ] (]) 01:26, 14 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
| :What do you plan to update it to? Especially considering you've not discussed it with relevant parties, {{ping|Seahawk01}}?] (]) 01:51, 14 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
| I'm trying to get into Freenode, but it won't let me in. Basically, I type my username and my password in, then I do the captcha. I successfully pass, but it says "invalid captcha." Then I do it again, and it says "invalid login." I double check my username and password, and it's correct, but it still won't let me in. Does anyone know what's going on? ] (]) 14:29, 28 April 2021 (UTC) | |||
| ::{{ping|Praxidicae}} hey, I am discussing with relevant parties. That's what the Talk page is for, right? ] (]) 01:57, 14 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
| :::No you're not discussing it with relevant parties, you're discussing it with people you have a ] against. ] (]) 02:01, 14 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
| ::::I agree with Praxidicae on this. The proposal seems to be in bad faith, simply based on a dispute they had on IRC and also a blatant disregard for #wikipedia-en-help's IRC policy by publicly posting logs. --] (]) 02:03, 14 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
| :::::{{u|Az1568}} I was not aware of the policy at the time, but since then I and another member have made sure all those links have been removed. ] (]) 03:35, 14 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
| == Freenode == | |||
| {{ping|Praxidicae}} and {{ping|Az1568}} please see below. Also, don't I have a right, as a member of the Misplaced Pages community, to make a proposal as to how a topic is to be dealt with? I would appreciate it if you both refrain from attacks and stick to the issues. ] (]) 03:31, 14 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
| For those that don't know, there has been a hostile takeover of Freenode and most of the staff have resigned. I've opened a discussion for the global community . ] 12:55, 19 May 2021 (UTC) | |||
| == Proposal to remove IRC chat from WP:Questions page == | |||
| :Thanks for opening the discussion on Meta. For the uninitiated, there is interesting background information about what's going on at Freenode at ] and ]. - ''']'''\<sup>]</sup> 15:52, 24 May 2021 (UTC) | |||
| {{Moved discussion from|Misplaced Pages talk:Questions|2=--] <sup>] </sup> 02:19, 14 December 2018 (UTC)}} | |||
| Hello, I am proposing to remove the information on IRC chat from this page. The freenode IRC chat channels are not in any way affiliated with Misplaced Pages, so I think providing information here is very misleading and makes new users think it is an official part of the Misplaced Pages project. | |||
| == Bad experience in the help channel == | |||
| Hey there. A couple months ago when I was trying to get IRC working, I visited the help channel #wikipedia-en-help as directed in the {{tl|notice}} at the top of the ] page. I was told to get my questions about nicknames and cloaking answered in the Freenode support channel, and that I was not allowed to stay in the #wikipedia-en-help channel. I felt rushed out of the channel without my questions getting answered. I found the experience to be ]. So I guess my questions are, 1) is it really necessary to rush people out of the help channel / disallow folks from idling in there? and 2) why can't we provide some basic IRC tech support in the help channel? Thanks. –] <small>(])</small> 19:09, 30 November 2021 (UTC) | |||
| :Hello {{u|Novem Linguae}}! We haven't had an "official" presence on Freenode since May. Are you referring to an experience on #wikipedia-en-help on Libera.chat? I looked through my logs and couldn't identify a particular experience that seems to meet your description. If you can give me some more specifics, I can review more closely. Specifics are always good if you're referencing ], btw. As it stands, I can't comment specifically about your experience about being "rushed" or not having your questions answered while in the channel. | |||
| :I can, however, provide some general responses to your questions: | |||
| :Regarding idling in the channel, we do not allow idling by unidentified users due to 1) repeated attempts at impersonation of on-wiki users by LTAs, 2) repeated attempts by trolls/LTAs to subvert our support process by private messaging helpees and to gather PII on unsuspecting users, and 3) repeated attempts by scammers attempting to sell "services" to approve and "protect" articles for unsuspecting COI editors by private messaging them. As such, this "no idling" policy is not likely to change any time soon. IRC is much more of a "wild west" than on-wiki communication, and we do have to be very careful to try and protect the fairly tech-naive helpees we get. Even so, we give a fairly broad grace period to idlers (sometimes many hours, if the channel is quiet), unless they are connecting from IPs that are blocked or are known to be blocked users on-wiki. | |||
| :To your question about provide "basic IRC tech support". Providing even "basic" IRC tech support is a slippery slope. Most importantly, however, we ''collectively'' do not have the knowledge, experience, or bandwidth to handle questions that do not relate to assisting with editing Misplaced Pages. As such, we often direct people to the correct support forum for various requests. Even our support of English Misplaced Pages is limited in many respects, often for transparency reasons. For example, we pointedly do not engage or take sides in any content disputes, we do not accede to requests to provide AfC reviews in the channel, we do not process unblock requests, and we do not accept edit requests from helpees except in very extreme/specific cases (blatant vandalism/BLPvios/copyvio/etc.). In any case, Libera.chat has a support channel available (#libera) to assist Libera.chat and IRC users that is populated with many people who are very knowledgeable with regards to IRC, and that is the correct forum for requesting assistance with IRC. | |||
| :To dovetail on that into your question about idling. The purpose of the help channel is really just to provide a venue for support in circumstances where an informal live chat is more productive than the more traditional on-wiki format. Many Wikipedians are accustomed to the communication style and buffering/privacy protection that is available on Misplaced Pages, with the ability to delete, redact, and revise, as well as the transparency available on-wiki for who said what and when. The IRC environment is very different, with no ability to redact or remove accidentally posted PII that a helpee unwittingly posts (as they often do), or prevent a malicious user from privately messaging an unwitting helpee. As such, we do have to moderate the support channels differently than what one might expect from an on-wiki environment. We channel moderators/operators do strive for a positive support experience, however. Again, if you can provide details regarding your experience (specific times/dates, the nickname you used, etc. - you can even email these to me using the Email user tool if you'd like) I'd be happy to research the matter further and see if there's some way we can improve. | |||
| :I hope this helps answer your questions. ] (]) 21:57, 30 November 2021 (UTC) | |||
| ::Hey @]. Thanks for the detailed reply. Fully explained that all makes sense. In regards to idling, it sounds like a bunch of LTAs and scammers ruined it for everyone and there's not much that can be done about it. Bummer. In regards to tech support, I've found the whole process of getting set up on IRC to have a big learning curve. Compared to Discord which is just click, install, done. Last time, it was such a pain to pick a client (I didn't pick a good one), get my nick working (I had a weird issue where I had to <code>/drop</code> a nick and then reregister it), and wait for my cloak that I just gave up on it and went back to Discord. It's going smoother this time, but as you can see I am still a bit frustrated. Hopefully it's smooth sailing from here though. Thanks for the thoughtful response. –] <small>(])</small> 22:33, 30 November 2021 (UTC) | |||
| :::Yeah, it really is a bummer, the internet is a pretty crappy place sometimes. Discord has it's own issues, but it's a very interesting and useful technology, and I do use it myself (just not for Misplaced Pages). Glad I was able to clarify things for you and best wishes! ] (]) 22:49, 30 November 2021 (UTC) | |||
| == IRC == | |||
| There are some additional things to note: | |||
| Tried to join the IRC following the prompts from the page, but Kiwi IRC doesn't seem to connect. ] (]) 06:57, 8 June 2022 (UTC) | |||
| * no oversight by Misplaced Pages of the IRC channels | |||
| * outside Misplaced Pages's formal channels and procedures | |||
| * no IRC public logs | |||
| * no records of discussions that lead to edits | |||
| * no voting for IRC mods on Misplaced Pages | |||
| * Misplaced Pages can easily host an IRC server if the project needs it | |||
| * no tags on edits due to IRC conversations, so no tracking | |||
| : Connected, but now says "ⓘ ** This channel is not monitored for support requests ** You have been forwarded here because the channel you tried to join is temporarily closed to unregistered users or your connection is malfunctioning. Try registering your nickname then rejoin, or /join #wikimedia-ops for help.". And when I try to join #wikimedia-ops, it says 0 people here. ] (]) 07:04, 8 June 2022 (UTC) | |||
| all in all, I find it very much the opposite of the procedures found on Misplaced Pages. | |||
| ::Have you seen "Wikimedia IRC has been migrated from freenode to Libera Chat" at ]? ] (]) 07:27, 8 June 2022 (UTC) | |||
| == Notice of proposed change to an IRC related template == | |||
| I will make the change and remove the information, but wanted to give a bit of notice first. | |||
| ] is used to display IRC channel names. There is a request to change the template at ]. The change is waiting to see if there is consensus for it. Please make any related comments on that page. ] (]) 08:45, 23 June 2022 (UTC) | |||
| ] (]) 02:58, 13 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
| == Hexchat is currently unmaintained == | |||
| ===alternative=== | |||
| An alternative to removing the IRC chat information is to make more explicit the fact that IRC is not associated with Misplaced Pages, but run independently by volunteers and then link to more "new user" information. More information for new users can be added either at either ] or ]. | |||
| As the title says - hexchat is now unfortunately unmaintained, . The as well. While the final release will likely still be completely usable for the time being, the recommended client list should probably reflect this ]] 13:40, 26 May 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ] (]) 01:56, 14 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
| :You appear to be doing this on a whim, solely based on a dispute you had on IRC with another editor. Simply for that fact, I'd say any removal would be rather biased, so imo you really shouldn't be removing anything at all. --] (]) 01:57, 14 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
| ::{{ping|Az1568}} true, I was initially motivated by a dispute. But, I'm pretty much over that dispute. On the other hand, I feel I was mislead as a new user into believing that the IRC chat was official because of mention on this page. So, I've decided to help out and redo policy on ] or ] plus rework what is on this article. ] (]) 02:02, 14 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
| :::If you took the time to read the page, you'd see there is a governance structure to how Wikimedia's IRC channels are run. So I'm not certain as to why you've proposed to unilaterally remove links to IRC and taking that resource away from '''everyone''' without first speaking to any of the folks that help run the IRC channels? --] (]) 02:11, 14 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
| :::What constitutes "official"? The IRC channels are run by volunteers, as with basically everything. ] (]) 02:53, 14 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
| {{ec}}:Are you ] ] (]) 01:59, 14 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
| ::{{u|Praxidicae}} not at all. Please see my answer above. Also, please note I am talking on the Talk page about proposed changes, not rashly changing anything yet. ] (]) 02:04, 14 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
| :::{{re|Seahawk01}} Can you please stop with the ]? It gets confusing and is detrimental to consensus to have a conversation spread out across multiple talk pages. --] <sup>] </sup> 02:07, 14 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
| ::::{{re|Cameron11598}} I am not forum shopping. I am trying to notify interested members. Why don't you centralize the discussion and we can {{strikethrough|precede}} proceed from there. Thanks. ] (]) 02:12, 14 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
| :::::{{u|Seahawk01}} Do you mean ''proceed''? ] (]) 02:14, 14 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::{{u|Praxidicae}} corrected ] (]) 03:11, 14 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
| {{od}} <s>I'm moving this hang on a second before continuing the discussion --] <sup>] </sup> 02:17, 14 December 2018 (UTC)</s> Done --] <sup>] </sup> 02:23, 14 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
| :{{u|Cameron11598}} this is great, thank you. Also, I want to discuss this over a period of a week or two. I wasn't planning on discussing it all tonight. ] (]) 02:25, 14 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
| ::{{ping|Az1568|Praxidicae}} I've centralized the discussion here just a quick fyi ping. --] <sup>] </sup> 02:27, 14 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
| :I added the word unmaintained just now. That should be a good first step. Someone else may remove it completely if they wish. ]. –] <small>(])</small> 13:47, 26 May 2024 (UTC) | |||
| How is this different than your complaint about IRC at ]? ] (]) 02:29, 14 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
| :well, {{u|Natureium}}, I posted that before thinking. Then I thought about it and realized the proper course of action was to propose the changes on the appropriate article Talk pages, notify interested parties, and make the changes. So, I do regret posting to idea lab...that was rash. ] (]) 03:11, 14 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
| ::There seems to be some major misconception here that there is ''any'' sort of "official" Misplaced Pages help. All help, whether on the IRC help channel, or at the Teahouse, is provided by volunteer experienced editors. The IRC help channel is no more or less official than the Teahouse or other help forums on Misplaced Pages, except in that public logging is not allowed due to a variety of privacy concerns (especially for helpees, who may not understand the import of what they are disclosing). Removing the IRC help channel from the help pages would be detrimental as it allows new editors who do not understand how to post to talk pages or have other difficulties that preclude them making use of the Teahouse to ask questions, and to ask questions that are too sensitive to ask publicly. It is also blatantly contentious to post across a wide variety of forums about the same thing. ] (]) 03:51, 14 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
| ==Discussion at ]== | |||
| I have summarized the changes I would like to make at ]. I suggest we reach a consensus and then do a ]. Thanks ] (]) 23:09, 14 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
| ] You are invited to join the discussion at ]. <span class="nowrap">--] (])</span> 00:44, 25 September 2024 (UTC)<!-- ] --> | |||
| :Okay, time to explain why your changes are off-base: | |||
| :#IRC users, on their own initiative, may keep ''private'' logs of conversations, which can be helpful when dealing with users who need help spanning multiple days. What aren't allowed are ''public'' logs - i.e. a publicly-viewable log. This is ]; most IRC clients' logs expose the IPs of users who don't have a ] in /join messages, and newcomers have been known to leave personal contact information in public channels such as -en-help. | |||
| :#All users should not "have equal say". Some channels have very specific requirements to be voiced in them (-en-revdel only allows ] to be voiced, and -en-help has ] for a +v flag, for instance). It is ludicrous to say that someone who has no idea how Misplaced Pages works has any right to help users who likewise have no idea how Misplaced Pages works, or that a non-administrator has any right to be an inquisitor for -en-unblock. | |||
| :#] can, and ''SHOULD'', be able to take unilateral action against trolls in the channels, and indeed they frequently do. What they don't do is take unilateral action against someone who has a legitimate question or gripe, or remove someone who isn't doing anything wrong (like evading a channel ban or harassing people via PM). Most of the time if an op isn't called for blatant trolling they're called in because a helpee is getting belligerent and/or ]. | |||
| :#If an issue is controversial enough that it needs to be discussed on-Wiki, any helper worth their salt can and will point them to the talk page of the article in controversy. | |||
| :#"Remind user must also compromise" is useless. This is solely aimed at -en-help, and almost every user who ] is either ] or is more interested in venting their frustrations at someone, not legitimate help. Not to mention that at -en-revdel, wikimedia-tech, and -en-unblock, a user is in absolutely no position to be able to compromise by design. | |||
| :#"Avoid powertripping" is redundant. Powertripping channel operators get their flags revoked. | |||
| :#If the situation is such that ] an admin can and should block on Misplaced Pages based on an IRC reply. That's part of why the !admin stalkword ''exists''. | |||
| :#While it looks good on paper, in practice most of the people we talk with in -en-help (again, this particular bullet is a gripe with -en-help) are so ignorant of how Misplaced Pages works that (a) they don't know talk pages exist and (b) assume we're employees, not volunteers. This is as much a cultural thing than anything - most of our helpees come from ], and no amount of education we can provide in the course of 30m-3h can change this that rapidly. | |||
| :#There is no need to document changes made to an article via IRC. One shouldn't even be making controversial changes based off of an IRC chat anyways, and on the instances where I have edited on behalf of a helpee I have made it clear I'm doing it on behalf of that user, usually explaining why as I do so. | |||
| :#Usually when I explain ''why'' I am tagging a helpee's article for speedy deletion ]. Most of the time, I helpfully tag these other articles as well as explain that Misplaced Pages is chronically short on admins. | |||
| :#The last bullet is redundant. This is a gripe with -en-help specifically, and we already do this (since a fair chunk of people who come in are demanding to know why their page was deleted). | |||
| :Hope this helps explain everything, including your angry crusade to make -en-help bend to your will because the result you got was not the result you wanted. —] ] <sup><small>]</small></sup> 02:38, 15 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
| ::Hi {{u|Jéské Couriano}}, I really don't think you are trying to find a consensus here. I, on the other hand, am making an honest effort to correct what I see is wrong in IRC. | |||
| ::In terms of this thread, let me remind you that: | |||
| ::* you guys came in here and attacked me like a swarm of bees (see ] "When the channels are used to attack Wikipedians, or when IRC discussions are cited as justification for an on-wiki action, the resulting atmosphere is very damaging to the project's collaborative relationships.") | |||
| ::* half you guys attacked me right here to begin with and should just be banned from discussion | |||
| ::* you guys all definitely have a bias, so should not be editing on this topic anyway | |||
| ::* I am perfectly willing to seek other channels of complaint to correct what I think needs correcting on these pages | |||
| ::So, I suggest you tone it down a little and seek to find common ground at least with the spirit, if not the letter, of my proposed edits. Thanks ] (]) 02:36, 17 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
| ::I complerely concur with everything {{u|Jéské Couriano}} has said above. --] <sup>] </sup> 03:15, 16 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
| :::{{u|Cameron11598}} see above ] (]) 02:43, 17 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
| ::::{{re|Seahawk01}} I think you need to retract some of your statements above, as they border on ], in particular your ], "{{tq|I really don't think you are trying to find a consensus here.}}" Casting [[WP:casting aspersions| | |||
| aspersions]] is a violation of our policy on ]. | |||
| ::::{{tq|Half you guys attacked me right here}}. Please provide diffs for this assertion or retract this statement. | |||
| ::::{{tq|you guys all definitely have a bias, so should not be editing on this topic anyway}}, you have a bias as well, although contrary to the others that have expressed themselves here. | |||
| ::::{{tq| you guys came in here and attacked me like a swarm of bees}} again please provide diffs or retract your statement. Failing to do so is considered a personal attack. --] <sup>] </sup> 02:58, 17 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
| ::{{u|Jéské Couriano}}, regarding what you say is an "angry crusade", I've had a perfectly wonderful time on Misplaced Pages until I went into the IRC chat rooms. This is what happened: | |||
| ::* user puts page into draft space | |||
| ::* user disappears saying "doesn't really have the experience" | |||
| ::* two other users gang up on me | |||
| ::this is what I think should of happened: | |||
| ::* user says disagrees with tone of article, offers to help fix | |||
| ::** puts post on Talk page outlining what needs to be fixed | |||
| ::** gives me a few days to make changes | |||
| ::* article is much better because of experience | |||
| ::Think about it ] (]) 03:05, 17 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
Latest revision as of 16:40, 9 November 2024
| This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the IRC page. |
|
| Archives: 1, 2 |
- Old talk archives: Misplaced Pages talk:IRC channels/wikipedia-en-admins/Archive 1
plan to update page
Moved to Misplaced Pages talk:IRC/wikipedia-en-help – Seahawk01 (talk) 01:15, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
Proposal to remove IRC chat from WP:Questions page
Moved to Misplaced Pages talk:IRC/wikipedia-en-help – Seahawk01 (talk) 01:15, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
I would like to ask everyone posting here to identify their relationship to IRC
Moved to Misplaced Pages talk:IRC/wikipedia-en-help – Seahawk01 (talk) 01:15, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
my reply to User:Cameron11598
Moved to Misplaced Pages talk:IRC/wikipedia-en-help – Seahawk01 (talk) 01:15, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
#wikipedia-mediation
Why do we still have #wikipedia-mediation? I thought wp:medcom got closed down.108.172.21.134 (talk) 04:47, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
Error: you are banned
I do not remember if I was ever banned from using IRC, but anytime I join a Misplaced Pages channel with the username "AwesomeAasim", it gives the error "You are banned". Does a channel mod want to investigate? Aasim (talk) 08:54, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
- Awesome Aasim, currently the IRC channels are restricted to users who are registered on Freenode due to a spambot attack. It is likely to remain so for at least the next 6-8 hours. Waggie (talk) 08:56, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
- okay I registered a nickname with IRC. The end. Aasim (talk) 19:33, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
"Misplaced Pages:Chat" listed at Redirects for discussion
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Misplaced Pages:Chat. The discussion will occur at Misplaced Pages:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 February 25#Misplaced Pages:Chat until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Elliot321 (talk | contribs) 02:28, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
Bug won't allow me in
I'm trying to get into Freenode, but it won't let me in. Basically, I type my username and my password in, then I do the captcha. I successfully pass, but it says "invalid captcha." Then I do it again, and it says "invalid login." I double check my username and password, and it's correct, but it still won't let me in. Does anyone know what's going on? Seahawks4Life (talk) 14:29, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
Freenode
For those that don't know, there has been a hostile takeover of Freenode and most of the staff have resigned. I've opened a discussion for the global community here. YODADICAE👽 12:55, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks for opening the discussion on Meta. For the uninitiated, there is interesting background information about what's going on at Freenode at Freenode#Ownership change and conflict and Andrew Lee (entrepreneur). - tucoxn\ 15:52, 24 May 2021 (UTC)
Bad experience in the help channel
Hey there. A couple months ago when I was trying to get IRC working, I visited the help channel #wikipedia-en-help as directed in the {{notice}} at the top of the WP:IRC page. I was told to get my questions about nicknames and cloaking answered in the Freenode support channel, and that I was not allowed to stay in the #wikipedia-en-help channel. I felt rushed out of the channel without my questions getting answered. I found the experience to be WP:BITE. So I guess my questions are, 1) is it really necessary to rush people out of the help channel / disallow folks from idling in there? and 2) why can't we provide some basic IRC tech support in the help channel? Thanks. –Novem Linguae (talk) 19:09, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
- Hello Novem Linguae! We haven't had an "official" presence on Freenode since May. Are you referring to an experience on #wikipedia-en-help on Libera.chat? I looked through my logs and couldn't identify a particular experience that seems to meet your description. If you can give me some more specifics, I can review more closely. Specifics are always good if you're referencing WP:BITE, btw. As it stands, I can't comment specifically about your experience about being "rushed" or not having your questions answered while in the channel.
- I can, however, provide some general responses to your questions:
- Regarding idling in the channel, we do not allow idling by unidentified users due to 1) repeated attempts at impersonation of on-wiki users by LTAs, 2) repeated attempts by trolls/LTAs to subvert our support process by private messaging helpees and to gather PII on unsuspecting users, and 3) repeated attempts by scammers attempting to sell "services" to approve and "protect" articles for unsuspecting COI editors by private messaging them. As such, this "no idling" policy is not likely to change any time soon. IRC is much more of a "wild west" than on-wiki communication, and we do have to be very careful to try and protect the fairly tech-naive helpees we get. Even so, we give a fairly broad grace period to idlers (sometimes many hours, if the channel is quiet), unless they are connecting from IPs that are blocked or are known to be blocked users on-wiki.
- To your question about provide "basic IRC tech support". Providing even "basic" IRC tech support is a slippery slope. Most importantly, however, we collectively do not have the knowledge, experience, or bandwidth to handle questions that do not relate to assisting with editing Misplaced Pages. As such, we often direct people to the correct support forum for various requests. Even our support of English Misplaced Pages is limited in many respects, often for transparency reasons. For example, we pointedly do not engage or take sides in any content disputes, we do not accede to requests to provide AfC reviews in the channel, we do not process unblock requests, and we do not accept edit requests from helpees except in very extreme/specific cases (blatant vandalism/BLPvios/copyvio/etc.). In any case, Libera.chat has a support channel available (#libera) to assist Libera.chat and IRC users that is populated with many people who are very knowledgeable with regards to IRC, and that is the correct forum for requesting assistance with IRC.
- To dovetail on that into your question about idling. The purpose of the help channel is really just to provide a venue for support in circumstances where an informal live chat is more productive than the more traditional on-wiki format. Many Wikipedians are accustomed to the communication style and buffering/privacy protection that is available on Misplaced Pages, with the ability to delete, redact, and revise, as well as the transparency available on-wiki for who said what and when. The IRC environment is very different, with no ability to redact or remove accidentally posted PII that a helpee unwittingly posts (as they often do), or prevent a malicious user from privately messaging an unwitting helpee. As such, we do have to moderate the support channels differently than what one might expect from an on-wiki environment. We channel moderators/operators do strive for a positive support experience, however. Again, if you can provide details regarding your experience (specific times/dates, the nickname you used, etc. - you can even email these to me using the Email user tool if you'd like) I'd be happy to research the matter further and see if there's some way we can improve.
- I hope this helps answer your questions. Waggie (talk) 21:57, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
- Hey @Waggie. Thanks for the detailed reply. Fully explained that all makes sense. In regards to idling, it sounds like a bunch of LTAs and scammers ruined it for everyone and there's not much that can be done about it. Bummer. In regards to tech support, I've found the whole process of getting set up on IRC to have a big learning curve. Compared to Discord which is just click, install, done. Last time, it was such a pain to pick a client (I didn't pick a good one), get my nick working (I had a weird issue where I had to
/dropa nick and then reregister it), and wait for my cloak that I just gave up on it and went back to Discord. It's going smoother this time, but as you can see I am still a bit frustrated. Hopefully it's smooth sailing from here though. Thanks for the thoughtful response. –Novem Linguae (talk) 22:33, 30 November 2021 (UTC)- Yeah, it really is a bummer, the internet is a pretty crappy place sometimes. Discord has it's own issues, but it's a very interesting and useful technology, and I do use it myself (just not for Misplaced Pages). Glad I was able to clarify things for you and best wishes! Waggie (talk) 22:49, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
- Hey @Waggie. Thanks for the detailed reply. Fully explained that all makes sense. In regards to idling, it sounds like a bunch of LTAs and scammers ruined it for everyone and there's not much that can be done about it. Bummer. In regards to tech support, I've found the whole process of getting set up on IRC to have a big learning curve. Compared to Discord which is just click, install, done. Last time, it was such a pain to pick a client (I didn't pick a good one), get my nick working (I had a weird issue where I had to
IRC
Tried to join the IRC following the prompts from the page, but Kiwi IRC doesn't seem to connect. 24.90.88.127 (talk) 06:57, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
- Connected, but now says "ⓘ ** This channel is not monitored for support requests ** You have been forwarded here because the channel you tried to join is temporarily closed to unregistered users or your connection is malfunctioning. Try registering your nickname then rejoin, or /join #wikimedia-ops for help.". And when I try to join #wikimedia-ops, it says 0 people here. 24.90.88.127 (talk) 07:04, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
- Have you seen "Wikimedia IRC has been migrated from freenode to Libera Chat" at WP:IRC? Johnuniq (talk) 07:27, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
Notice of proposed change to an IRC related template
Template:Libera.Chat is used to display IRC channel names. There is a request to change the template at Template Talk:Libera.Chat#Template-protected edit request on 22 June 2022. The change is waiting to see if there is consensus for it. Please make any related comments on that page. PHANTOMTECH (talk) 08:45, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
Hexchat is currently unmaintained
As the title says - hexchat is now unfortunately unmaintained, as of a couple of months ago. The github repo has been archived as well. While the final release will likely still be completely usable for the time being, the recommended client list should probably reflect this BugGhost🎤 13:40, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
- I added the word unmaintained just now. That should be a good first step. Someone else may remove it completely if they wish. Misplaced Pages:IRC/Clients. –Novem Linguae (talk) 13:47, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
Discussion at Misplaced Pages talk:IRC help disclaimer § Switch default IRC web client
You are invited to join the discussion at Misplaced Pages talk:IRC help disclaimer § Switch default IRC web client. --Ahecht (TALK
PAGE) 00:44, 25 September 2024 (UTC)