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Revision as of 20:55, 24 December 2014 editAndyTheGrump (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers54,013 edits →"Religion = None (atheist)" or "Religion = Jewish atheist"?: add← Previous edit Latest revision as of 11:56, 10 November 2024 edit undoTom.Reding (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Page movers, Template editors3,809,225 editsm →top: merge blp/living/activepol params into blp=activepol; cleanupTag: AWB 
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== Department names ==
== "Religion = None" vs. "Religion = Atheist" or "Religion = None (atheist)" in infoboxes. ==

Per ] and ], This comment concerns and .

(Please note that nobody has a problem with the use of "Atheist" in the article text. This only concerns infoboxes.)

'''"Atheism is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby."''' --'']''

'''"Atheism is a religion like abstinence is a sex position."''' --'']''

There are many reasons for not saying "Religion = Atheist" or "Religion = None (atheist)" in Misplaced Pages infoboxes. They include:

'''It implies something that is not true'''

:Saying "Religion = Atheist" in Misplaced Pages infoboxes implies that atheism is a religion. It is like saying "Hair color = Bald", "TV Channel = Off" or "Type of shoe = Barefoot". "Religion = None (atheist)" is better -- it can be read two different ways, only one of which implies that atheism is a religion -- but "Religion = None" is unambiguous.

'''It is highly objectionable to many atheists.'''

:Many atheists strongly object to calling atheism a religion, and arguments such as "atheism is just another religion: it takes faith to not believe in God" are a standard argument used by religious apologists.

'''It goes against ]'''

:This was discussed at length at ]. Opinions were mixed, but the two positions with the most support were "Religion = None" or removing the Religion entry entirely.

:More recently, it was discussed at ], and again the consensus was for "Religion = None".

:On article talk pages and counting the multiple "thank you" notifications I have recieved, there are roughly ten editors favoring "Religion = None" for every editor who opposes it. Of course anyone is free to post an ] on the subject (I suggest posting it at ]) to get an official count.

'''It is ]'''

:If anyone insists on keeping "Religion = Atheist" or "Religion = None (Atheist)" in any Misplaced Pages infobox, they must first provide a citation to a reliable source that established that the individual is An atheist, and considers atheism to be a religion.

'''It attempts to shoehorn too much information into a one-word infobox entry'''

:In the article, there is room for nuance and explanation, but in the infobox, we are limited to concise summaries of non-disputed material. Terms such as "atheist", "agnostic", "humanist", "areligious", and "anti-religion" mean different things to different people, but "Religion = None" is perfectly clear to all readers, and they can and should go to the article text to find out which of the subtly different variations of not belonging to a religion applies.

'''It violates the ].

:Consider what would happen if ] decided to list "Banana" as her birth date. We would document that fact in the main article with a citation to a reliable source (along with other sources that disagree and say she was born on March 28, 1986). We would '''not''' put "Birth date = Banana" in the infobox, because that would cause some readers to stop and say ''"wait...what? Banana is not a birth date..."''. Likewise we should not put anything in an infobox that would cause some readers to stop and say ''"wait...what? Atheism is not a religion..."''

'''In many cases, it technically correct, but incomplete to the point of being misleading.'''

:When this came up on ], who strongly self-identifies as an atheist, nobody had the slightest problem with saying that Teller is an atheist. It was the claim that atheism is a religion that multiple editors objected to. ] wrote "Atheism is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby", so we know that Penn objects to having atheism identified as a religion.

:In the case of Penn, Teller and many others, they are atheists who reject all theistic religions, but they also reject all ''non''-theistic religions, and a large number of non-religious beliefs. See ] for an incomplete list. Atheism just skims the surface of ]'s unbelief.

In my opinion, "Religion = None" is the best choice for representing the data accurately and without bias. I also have no objection to removing the religion entry entirely. --] (]) 07:43, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
:There is a centralised discussion on this point at ]. In my opinion the clearest way of expressing this in the infobox is by stating "Religion: none (atheist)". ] (]) 08:33, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

== "Religion = None (atheist)" or "Religion = Jewish atheist"? ==

Surely, as "]" is an article on Misplaced Pages, and as Mr. Miliband refers to himself as such (as stated later on in the article), then shouldn't this be changed? Or is there a specific Misplaced Pages policy on this which I have not read yet? – ] <sup>]</sup><sub>]</sub> 20:49, 24 December 2014 (UTC)


Ed was head of Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change from 2008 to 2010. This is a slighly different department from Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero which is the role he currently holds. I think his 2008 role should be split out from his current role. ] (]) 10:36, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
:There is no evidence whatsoever that Miliband adheres to any form of atheism specific to people of Jewish descent. Concluding that he does would constitute original research. And incidentally, no form of atheism can be described as a religion. ] (]) 20:54, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 11:56, 10 November 2024

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Department names

Ed was head of Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change from 2008 to 2010. This is a slighly different department from Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero which is the role he currently holds. I think his 2008 role should be split out from his current role. Fishyrabbit (talk) 10:36, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

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