Talk:List of people from Croatia: Difference between revisions

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			{{Talk header}}
	{{WikiProject Croatia\|class=list\|importance=top}}
			{{WikiProject banner shell\|class=List\|blp=yes\|listas=Croats, List Of\|1=
	==Why no mention of the CROAT Joseph Haydn?==
			{{WikiProject Biography}}
			{{WikiProject Croatia\|importance=top}}
			{{WikiProject Lists\|class=list\|importance=low}}
			}}

			{{Controversial}}
	There is quite a bit of writing regarding Haydn's Croat ancestry and the influence this had on his music. It is something that should be explored though it is understandable why there might be resistance. Just the mention that the Haydn penned German National anthem bears striking similarity to the Croatian folk song "Stal se jesem" can easily cause antagonism amongst some.

			== Criteria ==
	*Joseph Haydn (1738-1803) was born in a Croatian ethnic enclave in Burgenland (Gradisce) in Austria. Parents of Franz Joseph Haydn are Mathias Haiden and Anna Maria Haidin, as can be seen on their grave in the Rohrau cemetery even today.Haydn is a common Croatian family name. In the Croatian telephone book you can see the names of Hajdin, Hajdina, Hajdinjak, Hajdinac, Hajdinovic: 63 families in the Zagreb county, 91 families in Medimurje and Varazdin counties, 65 families in Primorsko-Goranska county; and altogether 320 families in the whole Croatia (1999). There is a village of Hajdine near Vrbovsko in Croatia, on the main road to Rijeka, and the village of Hajdin near Vojnic. The name Hajdin (= hajda's) is derived from hajda = buckwheat.

			Currently, "List of Croats" is defined in the lead as:
	* Until 1954, the well known Grove's Dictionary of Music and Musicians, London, accepted the opinion of Haiden (Haydn) as the Croat (and since that year accepted the opinion of Schmid about his alledged German roots)
			: "list of prominent individuals who were Croatian citizens or of Croatian ancestry."
	* Dutch historian of art Henrik van Loon (in 1937) and Canadian historian Murray Gibbon (in 1938) pointed out to the political motivations in these questions, and that it should not be alowed to "Teutons" to deny Croatian roots of Haiden
			While "prominent" may be presumed to imply the ] criterion, this definition is not entirely unambiguous, and may be also problematic in some respects. Here are some questions that need to be answered:
	* Larousse Musique in 1957 considers the Slavic - Croatian roots of Haydn possible.
			# Do we want to include "Croatian citizens" or just ethnic Croats? (E.g. Nikola Tesla meets the former criterion, but not the latter.) There are arguments in favor of both options.
	* Sir Kenneth Clark, in his TV presentation The Civilisation (famous for his book having the same title), shown by Swiss - Italian TV in 1970s, claims Haiden to be the Croat
			# Do we construe "Croatian citizens" broadly as not only people who are or were citizens of the Republic of Croatia (1991-present), but also all people who lived and were associated with the same territory? Again, Tesla was strictly speaking never a Croatian citizen, but could be reasonably considered one "retroactively".
	* Anthony Hodgson in his book The Music of Joseph Haydn (London, 1976) considers Hayden to be the Croat born in Trstenik (Rohrau), and stresses notable presence of Croatian folk melodies in Heidens's famous symphonies
			# "Croatian ancestry" presumably means "<nowiki>] ancestry</nowiki>", but it is fairly clear that "person of Croatian ancestry"<>"Croat". Are all n-th generation Croats still Croats? Where do we draw the line? ] (]) 14:34, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
	*A Croatian Composer;Notes towards the study of Joseph Haydn by Sir William H. Hadow (First edition in 1897, London,Seely and co. limited, reprinted in 1972, New York Books for Libraries Press, Freeport, New York)
	* Hayden included in his music about 30 Croatian folk melodies!
	* Haydn's melody Gott erhalte (German National Anthem) is evidenced from Croatian Littoral and environs of Zagreb to Medjimurje on the North, and to Gradisce (Burgenland) in Austria

			'''Split'''. List of Croats (ethnic Croats) ≠ List of Croatians (nationality).--] 14:44, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
	From MusicaClassica:

			== Male or Female ==
	A distinguishing trait of Haydn's works was his frequent use of Croatian folk music for his melodic material. Wrote W. H. Hadow: "The Croatian melodies are bright, sensitive, piquant, but they seldom rise to any high level of dignity or earnestness. They belong to a temper which is marked rather by feeling and imagination than by any sustained breadth of thought, and hence, while they enrich their own field of art with great beauty, there are certain frontiers which they rarely cross, and from which, if crossed, they soon return." Even many of Haydn's original melodies are characterized by typical rhythmic and melodic qualities to be found in the Croatian folk songs. However, as Franze Bellinger has added, "Haydn's speech, like that of every genius, was not only that of his race, but of the world." To these Croatian characteristics, Haydn added his high inspiration and sensitivity, and produced a type of melody which, for the most part, is unmistakably his.
	== Zdenko Kalin ==
	was NOT Croatian. He was Slovene, born in Solkan (Slovenia). Please remove him from the list. <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 18:48, 10 March 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

			Hi Folks, I have a suggestion that affects the entire list. Given that that the non-Croat (or non-slavic at least) world may not be familiar with Croat names, what do you think of adding a (M) or (F) after each name? I'm half Croatian and grew up with a fair amount of influence from the Northern California Croat community, but even names like ] and ] stumped me.--] (]) 16:18, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
	Can we add Leslie Thomas (Tom) Starcevich to the military section please - thanks <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 08:09, 25 February 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

			== Inferiority complex ==

			While reading the history of changes of this article I've 'learned' that Leonardo, Michelangello, Napoleon, Brigitte Bardot, Charlie Chaplin ... were Croats. I know there are many editors suffering from the inferiority complex which can be an explanation why all these 'were' Croats. I tried to clean the list removing the names which cannot be put on this list(Schwarz - an Austrian Jew, Boscovic - an Italian, Andric - a Serb). Alas, I see the same name back in the list .
	{{controversial}}
			<blockquote>
			A sense of personal inferiority arising from conflict between the desire to be noticed and the fear of being humiliated.
			In psychology, a complex, or cluster of repressed fears, described by Alfred Adler based on physical inferiority. The term is popularly used to describe general feelings of inferiority and the overcompensation that often ensues.
			Adler described the complex as arising from the perceived inferiority of an organ or part of the body and leading to feelings of general inferiority. He believed that everyone suffered from inferiority feelings and that the desire or determination to relieve them determined people's behavior. Failure to deal with them could lead to neurotic symptoms.
			</blockquote>
			--] (]) 19:59, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

			== Ivo Andric ==
	'''Archives'''
	*]

			His mother was a Serbian, he refused to be listed as a Croatian in Yugoslav Encyclopedia. Please, respect his identity.--] (]) 23:16, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
	== complete rewrite needed ==

			== External links modified ==
	This article needs complete cleanup rewrite. This page has been a playground for idiots that make jokes and other idiots that use the former idiots to accuse entire croatian nation for megalomania.

			Hello fellow Wikipedians,
	:'''So this way you demostrate your knowledge about this topic and supreme mind telling us who is idiot and what the accusation is?'''--] 08:25, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

			I have just modified one external link on ]. Please take a moment to review . If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit ] for additional information. I made the following changes:
	Also, there is a lot of spam here. Some 3rd class artists or scientist propably see this page as a chance to put their names on the internet.
			*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081011221504/http://www.sport5.co.il/articles.aspx?FolderID=64&docID=8505&lang=he to http://www.sport5.co.il/articles.aspx?FolderID=64&docID=8505&lang=he

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	I suggest puttin "{{Talkfact}}" next to every possible name here and deleting all unexplained names.

			{{sourcecheck\|checked=false\|needhelp=}}
	--] 19:15, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

			Cheers.—] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">(])</span> 16:14, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
	I second the request for an article cleanup/rewrite. It's a mess. The article should start by defining a strict criteria for who can be on the list. Every addition should provide a reference. In my opinion, only those born in Croatia or who have at some point in their lives declared themselves Croatian, either by ethnicity or citizenship, should be listed here. There should be a separate article listing notable people of Croatian descent (e.g. John Malkovich, Krist Novoselich), as it doesn't make sense to list them here. Also, it should be acceptable to list the same people in multiple articles. There's no reason why Nikola Tesla couldn't be listed as Croatian, Serbian and American. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 00:34, 9 June 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

			== Malkovich Croat? ==
	==Clean up==

			Read the answer here (Up to today, I do not know whether I am Croat, Montenegrin, or Bosnian)
	I'm willing to clean up this article as long as somebody agrees to do translations for me from the Croatian wikipedia whenever I need them. The translations don't have to be perfect, I'll fix them grammar and spelling-wise, just enough to work with. I'll place whatever translations I need here under:

			''Kada je prvi put u nekim novinama napisano da sam hrvatskog podrijetla, majka mi je rekla da potječemo iz Crne Gore, za što do tada također nisam čuo''--] (]) 06:33, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
	===Translations Needed===

			== External links modified ==
	] 13:15, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

			Hello fellow Wikipedians,
	# Ljubo Babić
	# Vladimir Becić
	# Cata Dujsin

			I have just modified one external link on ]. Please take a moment to review ]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit ] for additional information. I made the following changes:
	==Ivo Tatic==
			*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090312071208/http://www.amb-croatie.fr/croatie/saviez-vous.htm to http://www.amb-croatie.fr/croatie/saviez-vous.htm

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	I found very little information on this architect but the information I did find suggests he was notable. Why isn't there any information on him? Does he perhaps have an article on another wikipedia? ] 13:55, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

			{{sourcecheck\|checked=false\|needhelp=}}
	== Removal of actors ==

			Cheers.—] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">(])</span> 21:22, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
	Why have the likes of Eric Bana, John Malkovich, Tom Hanks, Denise Richards etc...been removed from from the list here.

			== External links modified ==
	If someone has one parent or has some link to Croatia by blood why not mention it...and that inludes Marco Polo, Haydn and Maradona.

			Hello fellow Wikipedians,
	All famous people on Wiki who have a mixture of orign even a 1/4 tend to outline it in the first paragraph.

			I have just modified one external link on ]. Please take a moment to review ]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit ] for additional information. I made the following changes:
	] 03:51, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
			*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060304113226/http://www.nobilo.co.nz/ to http://www.nobilo.co.nz/

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	:As per The Serbian Americans by Jerome Kisslinger, Chelsea House Publishers New York 1990 pages 99-101 John Malkovich is a Serb. The consulting editors for this book were:
	:*Ann Orlov, Managing editor, Harvard Encyclopedia of American Ethnic Groups, Harvad MA
	:*M.Mark Stolarik - President, The Balch Institute for Ethnic Studies, Philadelphia
	:*David M. Reimers, Professor of History, New York University
	:*James F Watts, Chairman, History Department, City College of New York
	:<small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 00:15, 20 September 2006 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->

			{{sourcecheck\|checked=false\|needhelp=}}
	:About Malković I know, he even has living relatives in Croatia, Marco Polo is questionable though he was born on Hvar. Ivo Andrić and Ruđer Bošković were Croats. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 12:05, 30 September 2006 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->

			Cheers.—] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">(])</span> 00:23, 25 December 2017 (UTC)
	Ivo Andric was a Serb, he wrote mostly about serbs and people in bosnia, he lived in serbia, was serbian ambasador, and both of his parents were Serbs. <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 12:21, 22 December 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

			== Requested move 21 July 2018 ==
	I have found some intersting theories and propaganda on the net.Above statement is one such peice of rubbish. Just because soemthing is in print doesn't make it truth .

	JOHN MALKOVICH IS AMERICAN HIS FATHER WAS A CROAT, END OF STORY.

	:::::John Malkovich's father never declared himself as a Croat. The people who worked on the book above are supreme authorities as to the ethnic groups in the USA--] 12:44, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
	::::::Serb propaganda my friend in book form, i only know him to be know as American of Croat origin] 03:52, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

	:::::::Yeah sure, whenever something is in Serbs favor it's Serbian propaganda, stop being childish and believing in CROATIAN PROPAGANDA. For god sake...

	:::::::Also if someone has living relatives in Croatia, that doesn't make him Croatian! ] 13:21, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

	I can also show you books to say Nikola Tesla was Croat, but we all know he was simply born in Croatia to Serbian parents.

	As for John Malkovich he was always know as Yugoslav later as Croatian...very few places will list him as Serb and if they do it's usually a mistake.

	PS We're fighting over silly things.
	God Speed to all.
	] 00:45, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

	=== WHY DID SOMEONE DELETE, IVO ANDRIC, RUDJER BOSCOVICH AND JOHN MALKOVICH???? ===

	PLEASE DON'T START AN EDIT WAR.
	THESE PEOPLE ARE OF CROAT BLOOD AND SHOULD BE LEFT ON THE LIST...PLEASE ] 05:11, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

	DELETING THEM IS VANDELISM AND WILL BE REPORTED.
	] 05:11, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

	== Asim Kurjak ==

	Asim Kurjak has been accused for several infamous things, such as abusing harvested egg cells to achieve exceptional results in treating fertility problems and recently of pretty huge plagiarism of his science works (basically, copying parts of other scientists work). If that is proven true, he should be moved to "Infamous" section. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 08:42, 18 September 2006 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->

	:About Kurjak's plagiarism see details here <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 00:13, 20 September 2006 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->

	:It is now official: . Mr. Kurjak told that he is going to ask for international examination of his two papers. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 22:50, 21 November 2006 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->

	: Police is investigating claims of giving his patients egg cells taken from other women - HRT <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 22:02, 30 March 2007 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->

	: Ethical Comittee of AZVO has issued an statement confirming BMJ claims <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 19:23, 17 May 2007 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->

	== Tesla ==

	Has anyone counted how many times he's been added and removed? Just curious. I understand he was an ethnic Serb born and raised in Croatia. As someone with no involvement in the issue, may I point something out? The title of the article says "Croatians". Many people would interpret that to mean "People from the country of Croatia". The article is not titled "List of Ethnic Croats". How about drafting an introductory paragraph to set the rules? Maybe if you define the rules, it would be easier to decide who belongs and who doesn't. Just a suggestion. ] 00:23, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
	::If by "Croatians" it is the citizenship in question, then consider that Croatia did not exist in his time. He was born in a place called Austria-Ungarn, later moving to America. His parents were both Serbia. Technically Tesla was a Serbian-American who was born in Austria-Ungarn. I don't know what he would be doing in a "List of Croats" as he has no relation to them ethnically, birthplace-wise or by way of citizenship. No definition of "Croatian" applies to him. ] 21:16, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
	:No dilemma about Tesla. Born in the Military Frontiers which was (taht time) under direct rule of the Viennese Court, moved out the Austro-Hungarian Empire before 1881 when the Military Frontiers was integrated into the Croatia and Slavonia Kingdom. Claiming such a nonsense is the same as to claim that Archimedes is an Italian due to the fact that his birthplace Siracuse is in today's Italy. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 00:17, 23 September 2006 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->
	::And I'll repeat, nothing in the article defines what is meant by "Croatian".
	::Regardless of what government was in power, the place was called Croatia when he was born there.] 16:41, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
	::: Wrong - the place was called Military Frontiers <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 23:54, 25 September 2006 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->
	:::: Really? I guess didn't know that. They thought it was Croatia. ] 01:40, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
	::::: Firstly read what you have intended to call upon. The reference given by you denies what you've wanted to prove. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 01:44, 27 September 2006 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->
	:::::: It contains 54 occurrences of "Croatia" as a place name. ] 14:39, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
	::All I'm saying is, if you define the terms up top, you shouldn't have the constant revert wars below. ] 16:41, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

	Tesla was proud of his Croatian motherland and Serbian descent. When his mother died in 1892, he paid a visit to Croatian capital Zagreb, and gave a lecture about alternating current. On that occasion Tesla said: "As a son of my homeland, I feel it is my duty to help the city of Zagreb in every respect with my advice and work" - ("Smatram svojom duznoscu da kao rodeni sin svoje zemlje pomognem gradu Zagrebu u svakom pogledu savjetom i cinom"). ] (]) 00:01, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
	:What makes you think he was talking about Croatia when he said "homeland"? ] 05:33, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

	How come Krist Novoselic who was born in California and never lived in Croatia meets the requirements to be listed, but Tesla doesn't? That doesn't make sense. How about just listing Tesla in both "List of Croats" and "List of Serbs" articles and settling the matter once and for all? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 00:05, 9 June 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

	== Tesla in the wrong category ==

	I noticed that Nikola Tesla is listed in "Social Science" not in "Inventors" and he really has nothing to do with social science! <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 11:28, 8 December 2006 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->

	== Mihajlovic ==

	Why isnt Sinisa Mihajlovic in there? He is as croat as tesla is <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 16:51, 15 December 2006 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->

	:Good remark. He is a Croat by his mother's side. ] 09:28, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

	== Juraj Dalmatinac ==

	Translating ''Giorgio Orsini'' into ''Juraj Dalmatinac'' does not make him a Croat--] 00:12, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
	*Removed Orsini's name from the list--] (]) 14:06, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

	== Junior Eurovision winner Dino Jelusic? ==

	I'd like to suggest a Croat for inclusion in the list of Croats, Dino Jelusic.

	He won the Junior Eurovision Song Contest in 2003.

	He's already listed in Misplaced Pages at:

	A video of him singing the winning song, "Ti Si Moja Prva Ljubav" in 2003 at 11 years of age can be seen at:

	His website is at &

	I get the impression that he is highly talented, and I strongly suspect he will become well-known worldwide. (OK, that's just my opinion, but I give some reasons if required).] 19:30, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

	== Giovanni Biagio Luppis von Rammer is not your Ivan Lupis Vukić ==

	Please, stop changing original Itailan names!!!

	Giovanni Biagio Luppis von Rammer is not your Ivan Lupis-Vukić!!!

	Giorgio Orsini is not your Juraj Dalmatinac!!!

	Andrea Meldola is not your Andrija Medulić!!!

	Benedetto Cotrugli is not your Benedikt Kotruljević!!!

	Mario Andretti??? A Croat??? Maybe - Marin Andretic?

	--] 18:09, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

	About forgeries I've mentioned above - see
	--] 17:17, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

	:Giovanni Lupis is the same Ivan Lupis-Vukic as he is known as such in Croatia. He has every right to be on this list as he was born in Rijeka and originating from Pelješac. Juraj Dalmatinac or as you in Italy call him Giorgo Orsini was a man born in Zadar and worked all over Dalmatia and is one of the most important and prominent figures of medieval Dalmatian(and thus Croatian as well) architecture. He himself signed himself in Latin "Georgius Mathaei Dalmaticus" (George Mathew the Dalmatian) which is in Croatian Juraj Matej(ev) Dalmatinac. Andrea Meldolla or Andrija Medulic was also called "Schiavone" which means "the Slav", so the man was born in Zadar and was referred as Slav...think about it. As for Andretti he is not on the list. And finally this article is the list of ] and this doesn't necessary means they have to be ethnic Croats to be on the list. --] 02:19, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

	::Giovanni Biagio Luppis von Rammer never called himself Ivan Lupis-Vukic!!!
	::::::You have a point there but this has been pointed out in Lupis' article. --] 08:25, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

	::Giorgio Orsini never called himself Juraj Dalmatinac!!!
	::::::Juraj Dalmatinac is the Croatian translation of his own signature in Latin (Georgius Dalmaticus), he certainly never called himself "Giorgo Orsini". --] 08:25, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

	::Andrea Meldola never called himself Andrija Medulic!!!
	::::::Again you may be right, in fact by historical research of documents in Zadar it has been established that he indeed was Meldola or Meldolla and never Medulić. The first who used Medulić was was Ivan Kukuljević Sakcinski during the Illyrian movement and although incorrect this version has established itself in Croatian historiography. Nevertheless we known two very important facts: 1. He was born in Zadar and 2. He preferred to be called "Schiavone" meaning "the Slav". So he was a Slav born in Zadar, think about it. --] 08:25, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

	::These Italian men never ever regarded themselves as Croatians!!!

	::Could you, please, comprehend that Michelangello cannot be 'croatized' by 'translating' his name into Mihovil Angjelic?

	::Your national frustrations cannot be healed this way, believe me!--] 02:25, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

	:::First of all they were not "italian men" as Italy didn't even exist at that time and second the fact someone had or has Romance/Italic name doesn't necessarily makes him an Italian. Many Croats even today carry German, Italian/(Romance)Dalmatian, Hungarian and other surnames and who can deny them the fact they are Croats? You? This is especially ridiculous when we talk about these people who lived in middle ages and who certainly had no sense of ethnic belonging since at that time ethnicity meant something totally different from todays comprehension of the same term. You could argue that Meldola and Dalmaticus were Venetian though but this still doesn't mean it is equal to the modern term Italian as Venetian Republic held large areas of Slavic, Greek and Albanian populated territory and many of these people "latinized" their names and served in Venice becoming full fledged members of society. I mean the whole elite guard of the Doge was made of these people...first explicitly from Slavic men of Dalmatia(Croats) and then later by others (Albanians, Greeks, etc) --] 08:25, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

	== Vandalism ==

	According to , it has been repeatedly vandalized in recent time. This is classified as ''plain removal'', and is to be as per ] reverted and reported ]. --] 19:26, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

	:Be more specific - what is the 'plain removal'? I've removed only Italians whose names were meaninglessly 'translated' as Croatian names. We do not need here a policeman - rather somebody who is able to understand the core of the problem called credibility and integrity of the editorial work.--] 23:52, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

	==Name spamming==
	This page needs thorough cleaning/filtering. Too many unimportant or not-so-important names. We don't have to list here every Croat on this world that exists or existed. ] 08:37, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

	== Only Nazis used to 'nazionalize' people's names ==

	It is well known that German Nazis used to change personal names in the occupied parts of Europe. I have a friend whose father was born in Slovenia (that time Yugoslavia) whose surname was Križnar and he was born in the town called Kranj - but in his birth certificate it reads: 'Krischner' born in 'Krainburg'. The same way are:

	Giovanni Biagio Luppis von Rammer - Ivan Lupis-Vukić

	Giorgio Orsini - Juraj Dalmatinac

	Andrea Meldola - Andrija Medulić

	Benedetto Cotrugli - Benedikt Kotruljević

	Francesco Patrizi - Frane Petrić

	So Neo-Nazis are active in today's Croatia!!!--] 18:22, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

	:Actually that was quite common practice of Italian Fascist in occupied Croatian and Slovenian lands. Furthermore these people didn't had their names changed, they are simply known under these names in Croatia, if it bothers you close your eyes. --] 18:24, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

	:Cool. Put them on the ] (if there is any reason), but '''''do not remove them from here''''' (just like Ivo Andric is both here and in the list of Serbs). Besides - this list includes all '''Croatians''' (not necessary of Croat ethnicity). --] 11:49, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

	=== Nazis are in Italy not Croatia ===
	In order to response to some ]s here:

	1.During the www2 many Italian troops were situaed in Croatia. At the beginning of italian occupation, in the night 3rd/4th July 1941 '']'' troops from Split , assisted with armored escort of '']'' destroyed almost all stores in Split . Reason: the owners rejected to change the store names from croatian into italian. Similar things that were happenning ex. in Germany ]

	2. ] occupation of ] has lasted unfortunately much longer. For the Slavic population it can be compared with ] or Jewish destiny during Nazi regime. During the occupation of Istra all Slavophones had to italianize their names. Even the names on the graves were italianized. That was for more than 20 years of one of the worst fascist terror in the 20th century.

	3. You forget that Nazis were '''your''' companions for 12 years. In fact '''Italians/Germans were inventors of fascism/nazism'''. So , do not give us a lectures about our history.
	Even still today are being legally sold all the souvenirs of ] and ] in Italy. Not in Croatia

	Take look at these links:












	Smrt fašizmu!
	Pozdrav Domovini! --] 21:02, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

	== Religion - Bishop Joseph James Potocnak - NOT A CROATIAN ==

	I am the niece of Bishop Potocnak. My father is his brother. Both are alive; therefore, I know my heritage. Bishop Potocnak is 1/2 Ukrainian (Rusyn), 1/2 Slovakian. He is not a Croatian, nor does he consider himself one. He considers himself an Eastern European immigrant to the US because of his parents' background, but I know Croatia has NEVER been considered our land of origin. Please remove this as it is incorrect - and also unfair to the two countries to which he does associate himself. While I obviously consider this an indisputable fact as I am his niece, I will leave it to others to determine that. However, I'd like this changed as soon as possible. I would be happy to add the information under the other countries as well as a bio of my uncle.] 01:30, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

	:hahaha, you're lying, ''to the US''?? Isn't he from South Africa? I've added him to the list along with the other bishops... Potocnjak is either Slovanian or Croatian, probably Slovenian tho, now that I think about it... <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 05:44, 3 March 2007 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->

	::No...I'm not lying. My uncle, who spells his name Potocnak (no j, please) may currently be a bishop in South Africa, but is not FROM South Africa. While he now reports directly to Rome, his initial association was Sacred Heart, US branch (Wisconsin - he went to seminary there). Potocnak is (according to my grandparents) Slovakian, not Slovenian. My uncle, in fact, was BORN in the US, in Pennsylvania to be exact. It is his parents who were the immigrants. His mother was Ukrainian (Rusyn), father Slovakian. Please take your ignorance and racism somewhere else, please.] 19:47, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

	== Marco Polo ==

	MARCO POLO WAS BORN IN KORCULA NOT HVAR <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 06:50, 8 January 2007 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->


	Marco Polo was born in Venice. Quote from "Il Milione": ''Marco Polo, savio e nobile cittadino di Vinegia''. Please, have a look here:

	I've removed Marco Polo because there is no written evidence of Marco Polo ever being born or living in Korcula. If somebody wants him added back, they should provide a reference. This IS an encyclopedia after all. Furthermore, even if he had been born in Korcula, the island was a part of the Venetian Republic at the time which would've still made him Venetian, not Croatian. If being born in Venetian Korcula makes someone Croatian, why stop there? Let's also declare the Roman emperor Diocletian to be Croatian too, since he was born near Split and lived in Split. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 00:17, 9 June 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

	== Maradona ==
	I dont believe Diego Maradona is croatian. Hes under the sports players. can anyone change this? <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 11:25, 11 January 2007 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->
	:Thsi lists people who are Croatian, or who have "Croat ancestry" - which is the case with Maradona as his grandmother or somethign was a croat. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 11:30, 11 January 2007 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->

	DIEGO MARADONA- Great Grandfather was Mateo Kariolic from Dalmatia <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 15:15, 22 June 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

	== Dukes ==

	Mislav and Domagoj should be added to the military list. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 13:58, 20 January 2007 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->



	== Cleaning of this article ==

	This article needs thorough cleaning up. <br>
	So many names that don't deserve to be here. I see (self)propaganda of anonimous persons. ] 14:19, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

	== Sasa Petricic (Media) is not a Croat ==

	He is Serbian. <small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (]) 05:12, 8 February 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->

	== Ivo Andric is not from Croatia or a Croatian! ==

	Ivo Andric is born in Bosnia in a catholic family! Ivo Andric has never lived in Croatia, he spent his life writing books in Serbia, that is also where he recived his Nobel prize. Claiming that Ivo Andric is from Croatia is as stupid as claiming that Kim Il Sung is from Zimbabwe. Ivo Andric has also stated numerous times that he is in fact Serb.<small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 17:15, 1 March 2007 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->

	:]Adnan, read the article before you say something. Here's a scanned picture, where Ivo Andrić declared himself as a Croat (he did that part of his life).</br>Is this enough? ] 07:56, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

	::No it is not enough, Ivo Andric has nothing to do with croatia, he has never lived in croatia. As it says on the paper he is from Bosnia. Later on in life Ivo Andric has stated that he is serb. He has spent his life in Serbia, and later on stated that he is a serb. Bottom line is, he is born in Bosnia and not croatia. He is definetley not from croatia or a croatian national.<small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 13:00, 3 March 2007 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->

	:::Childish denying. Look at the evidence. He declared himself as Croat in one part of his life. But his family is Croat family. Live with that. ] 18:32, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

	::::No but rather nationalistic lies to decieve others. You do realise that many people in Bosnia and Serbia and hell even Slovenia call themselves Croats even though they DO not or have NEVER lived in Croatia? Explain to me why he chose to live his life in Serbia and not in his "homeland" croatia? Because he is NOT croatian, he could be croat but NOT croatian!

	::::And stop deleting my argument about Marijan Benes, who also is NOT croatian! <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 19:06, 4 March 2007 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->

	::::Nikola Tesla has never lived in Serbia but he is nevertheless nationalized as Serb. That's what bothers me the most! The real truth is that his father and mother are Croatians but the father went from being catholic to orthodox so the Serbs took him as their own! It's not important where're you born it's important what's your real nationality. Andric has all of a sudden decided to be Serb, well it's not something you decide just like that! ] (]) 23:35, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

	== Marijan Benes is a Bosnian ==

	Can you people stop listing personalities who are not from croatia as famous croatian people? Marijan Benes is and has lived in Bosnia in the town of Banjaluka. He is a Bosnian catholic, you can come down to Banjaluka find the pub called "Nana" and ask Marijan Yourself! <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 14:33, 4 March 2007 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->

	== Oscar Nemon==

	Please can you change the sculptor Nemon Oscar to Oscar Nemon as his name is the wrong way round? Many thanks, Emma <small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (]) 19:22, 17 March 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->

	== Johnny Mercer is not Croatian ==

	Johnny Mercer is not Croatian. He himself was born in Savannah, Georgia, USA. His father's line is American for several generations. His maternal grandparents were Croatian immigrants, but his mother was American-born and a US citizen. ] 14:59, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

	He IS of Croatian descendandt! American-born doesn't mean a thing, it's not something that changes your genetics! ] (]) 23:37, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

	== I have 2 more people to add to the list. ==

	Anthony Burulcich - the drummer for ].

	] - TV personality, best known as the presenter for ] in Australia.

	Thanks. <small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (]) 05:20, 16 April 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->


	I have one for you to add to the list.... Frank Vlasic ......The creator and owner of Vlasic Pickles. <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 07:32, 25 February 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

	== Tito ==

	CAN SOMEONE REMOVE THE PICTURE OF TITO? WHY IS IT THAT OF ALL THE PEOPLE HE IS THE ONLY ONE WITH A PICTURE?
	PLEASE REMOVE IT TO PRESERVE MY SANNITY. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 02:55, 15 May 2007 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->

	== Add Zvonimir Berković ==

	I propose adding Zvonimir Berković, film director, screenplay writer and university professor (See , or ], one of his films). He is also quite uncontroversial.

	--] 05:01, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

	== I've stopped contributing to this list ==

	So far, I have added many names, and contributed greatly to this list, but because most of the names have been taken off, I just don't feel like continuing doing this. This list is pretty weird. There are many other celebrities with distant Croatian heritage that I've found, but don't feel like adding them here. I wish we had another site for that. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 23:37, 19 July 2007 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->

	==The German - US cinema director Werner Herzog==
	In some biographies is written that at least one of his parents were Croatians,it seems that his father.His real name is mentioned to be Werner Stipetic,if this is not a legend.Ewan <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 09:37, 28 October 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

	==Infamy?!==

	u cant write that! or u must write it for every nation! so please, delete it <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 13:37, 22 May 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

	== Sergio Endrigo ==
	Sergio Endrigo was italian, not croatian. Please correct. You can alse see his own homepage: http://www.sergioendrigo.it/... <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 22:26, 2 September 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

	== Croats? ==

	I don't know who made this list but I can tell he made a terrible job. This list has too many mistakes, first of all Slavica Ecclestone, I don't know who the hell put her on the list because she is an ethnic Serb. This guy Dušan Vukotić is hardly a Croat, you just need to look at his name Dušan and if you have a brain you will understand that he is not a Croat. Branko Lustig is not a Croat but a Jew and he belong to the List of Jews list, the same thing is with David Schwarz. Strossmayer is a half-Croat and he should be removed from the list. '''Ivo Andrić''' isn't a Croat damnit, he declared as a Serb multiple times and he belongs to the List of Serbs. You should put on your list Svetozar Boroević von Bojna who was orthodox by religion but he declared as a Croat. Nina Morić and Saša,Tin i Kedžo, what can I say to that, they are not famous and I'm not sure that they are Croats. So this list needs some cleansing.] (]) 17:40, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

	:Look at ] and ]. I wonder, which one is a Serb and which one is a Croat? Or, say, ]. Branislav/Branimir is definitely a Croatian name (see ] as an example) and Ivanović - well, it's not Jovanović. So? ] <sup>(])</sup> 16:45, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

	Well I can say that this guy Svetozar Delić is a Serb. About Bojana Bijelić I can't say anything but her name sounds like a Serb name. Branislav and Branimir are not the same, have you ever seen a Serb named Branimir.

	P.S. you can't be certain with names of people who lived were borned during YU because back then you could find a Serbian name on a Croat and the opposite (thing were fucked up).
	But still some names are Serbian for sure like: Aleksandar, Pavle, Duško/Dušan, Boris...] (]) 13:37, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

	It doesn't mean a thing if someone declares to be a Serbian or Croatian! You are what you are, it's in your friggin genes man! David Schwartz (Crnich) and Branko Lustig ARE Croatians! We call OUR people and OUR land Croatian, unlike the Serbs who often think that wherever a Serbian sets foot is Serbia (It's true, their own academics ,scientists and intelectual elite have agreed to this) !! It's SICK, and I'm SICK and TIRED of that idiotism! ] (]) 23:43, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

	== ] ==

	Having recently gone through the effort of sourcing the ] article, I have come across multiple references indicating her parents immigrated from Austria in or about 1912 (online references available and ). While it is true that modern day ] was part of ] at the time in question, there does not appear to be any sources showing Mofford's ethnic background. Thus the conclusion she is Croatian appears to be ]. --'']'' <sup>]</sup> 23:39, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

	Perica can only be Croatian. At that time Croatia was in the Austro-Hungarian empire. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 22:34, 23 April 2013 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

	:Do you have a source for this declaration? Misplaced Pages is based upon ] and not personal opinion. --'']'' <sup>]</sup> 22:47, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

	== Criteria ==

	Currently, "List of Croats" is defined in the lead as:
	: "list of prominent individuals who were Croatian citizens or of Croatian ancestry."
	While "prominent" may be presumed to imply the ] criterion, this definition is not entirely unambiguous, and may be also problematic in some respects. Here are some questions that need to be answered:
	# Do we want to include "Croatian citizens" or just ethnic Croats? (E.g. Nikola Tesla meets the former criterion, but not the latter.) There are arguments in favor of both options.
	# Do we construe "Croatian citizens" broadly as not only people who are or were citizens of the Republic of Croatia (1991-present), but also all people who lived and were associated with the same territory? Again, Tesla was strictly speaking never a Croatian citizen, but could be reasonably considered one "retroactively".
	# "Croatian ancestry" presumably means "<nowiki>] ancestry</nowiki>", but it is fairly clear that "person of Croatian ancestry"<>"Croat". Are all n-th generation Croats still Croats? Where do we draw the line? ] (]) 14:34, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

	== Male or Female ==

	Hi Folks, I have a suggestion that affects the entire list. Given that that the non-Croat (or non-slavic at least) world may not be familiar with Croat names, what do you think of adding a (M) or (F) after each name? I'm half Croatian and grew up with a fair amount of influence from the Northern California Croat community, but even names like ] and ] stumped me.--] (]) 16:18, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

			<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"><!-- Template:RM top -->
	== "The Croats" ? ==
			:''The following is a closed discussion of a ]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a ]. No further edits should be made to this section. ''

			The result of the move request was: '''moved as requested''' per the discussion below. ]<small>]</small> 02:05, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
	In this list there are many people who aren't of Croatian origin: Italians, Hungarians, Serbs, Slovenes, Albanians ... this list is composed of all, except that by Croats.
			----

			] → {{no redirect\|List of people from Croatia}} – Per ], ], and ], we cannot commingle "people from Croatia" and "people with some Croatian ancestry"; the latter ] anyway. Talk pages of articles with ambiguous titles like this show a lot of dispute about inclusion, and it's caused by an impermissibly confused scope and a misleading title. This should move for ] with almost all of the rest of our "people from {{var\|X}}" articles and categories. <small>The remaining "List of {{var\|Label}}s" and "List of {{var\|Label}} people" pages are being taken one RM at a time, since they vary between labels that are ethnic, national/regional, or both, on a case-by-case basis.</small> The scope will need cleanup; it is presently explicitly mixing people from Croatia and people who are not from there but identify as of Croatian heritage (what about 1/4 Croatian? 1/16? On the basis of what sources?). The latter is just not an encyclopedic criterion at all and is inevitably going to lead to OR and PoV. At this article it already has, and it's been tagged as problematic in this regard {{em\|since 2009}}. Time to just fix it. <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — ] ] ] 😼 </span> 04:11, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
	The list is probably the best of all jokes.
			*'''Support''' per above and my reasoning at the move request at ]. ''']<sup><small>]</small></sup>''' 04:19, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
			*'''Comment'''. If I understand correctly, e.g. ] would be in scope of "List of people from Croatia"? I'd still slightly prefer the earlier name, "List of Croats" (the article was apparently stealthily renamed a while ago for whatever reason), although my gripe with it was that it never clearly defined the scope of the list (i.e. who is a "Croat"), and was therefore messy and pointless. ] (]) 13:23, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
			*:Tesla would still qualify, since he was born there. Also qualifies for American lists as a permanent resident and naturalized citizen. Would also qualify for a list of ethnic Serbs, if we wanted such a thing. "List of Croats" has all the problems of "List of Croatians". It's going to be confused a mixture of people who live in Croatia and people with some degree of Croatian ancestry but who have never set foot there. <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — ] ] ] 😼 </span> 13:17, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
			*'''Support''' per nom. As I said, while I still feel "List of Croats" would be ideal, in the real world it devolved into an unfixable mess. (It ''might'' have worked as a list of people who ''self-identified'' as Croats, because it would be easier to get rid of all those nonsense entries, but "self-identified" would inevitably lead into another set of problems, chiefly with sourcing.) The new scope may not necessarily provide an easy way out, but I suppose it's still better than the alternatives. IMO, confusion with regard to the new scope is much less likely, but still possible (what precisely does it mean to be "from Croatia"?). However, these things can be stipulated later. ] (]) 13:57, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
			----
			:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a ]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a ]. No further edits should be made to this section.''</div><!-- Template:RM bottom -->

			== unnecessary and redundant marks. ==
	Famous Croats are :

			- Some people in the list are marked as "Jewish". I don't see how mentioning peoples religion would improve the list. I suggest removing the mark.
	* Dr. Franjo Tudjman was president of Croatia from May 1990 until his death in 1999.
			- Most people in the category "Architecture" are marked as "architect". This seems preety redundant to me.
	* Stjepan Mesić, has been president since 2000.
	* Nikica Valentić, Ivica Račan, and Ivo Sanader have all served as prime minister in recent years.
	* Two Nobel prize winners have come from Croatia, both chemists: Lavoslav Ružička and Vladimir Prelog.
	* Josip Broz-Tito was the leader of Communist Yugoslavia for many years after World War II.
	* Ivan Gundulic wrote about the Italian influences in Croatia in Dubravka.
	* Count Ivo Vojnović is best known for A Trilogy of Dubrovnik.
	* Miroslav Krleya captured the concerns of prerevolutionary Yugoslavia in his trilogy of the Glembay family (1928–32) and in novels like Return of Philip Latinovicz (1932) and Banners (1963).
	* Double-agent Duško Popov, who worked during World War II, was the model for Ian Fleming's James Bond.
	* The wartime figure, Andrija Artukovic, known as "Butcher of the Balkans" for his activities in support of Germany, is from Croatia.
	* Religious leader Franjo Seper was born in Croatia.
	* Musician Artur Radzinski became conductor of the New York Philharmonic in 1943 and of the Chicago Symphony in 1947.
	* Zinka Kumc Milanov was a dramatic opera soprano with the New York Metropolitan Opera in the 1950s and 1960s.
	* Mathilde Mallinger was a famous Croatian soprano who performed with Berlin Opera from 1869–1882.

	~~'''Stop.''' Source: I am a historian and teacher. --~~] (]) 12:18, 9 ~~May~~ ~~2013~~ (UTC)		] (]) 07:39, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

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Criteria

Currently, "List of Croats" is defined in the lead as:

"list of prominent individuals who were Croatian citizens or of Croatian ancestry."

While "prominent" may be presumed to imply the WP:LISTPEOPLE criterion, this definition is not entirely unambiguous, and may be also problematic in some respects. Here are some questions that need to be answered:

Do we want to include "Croatian citizens" or just ethnic Croats? (E.g. Nikola Tesla meets the former criterion, but not the latter.) There are arguments in favor of both options.
Do we construe "Croatian citizens" broadly as not only people who are or were citizens of the Republic of Croatia (1991-present), but also all people who lived and were associated with the same territory? Again, Tesla was strictly speaking never a Croatian citizen, but could be reasonably considered one "retroactively".
"Croatian ancestry" presumably means "] ancestry", but it is fairly clear that "person of Croatian ancestry"<>"Croat". Are all n-th generation Croats still Croats? Where do we draw the line? GregorB (talk) 14:34, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Split. List of Croats (ethnic Croats) ≠ List of Croatians (nationality).--Zoupan 14:44, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

Male or Female

Hi Folks, I have a suggestion that affects the entire list. Given that that the non-Croat (or non-slavic at least) world may not be familiar with Croat names, what do you think of adding a (M) or (F) after each name? I'm half Croatian and grew up with a fair amount of influence from the Northern California Croat community, but even names like Ignjat and Vanja stumped me.--Scalhotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... (talk) 16:18, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Inferiority complex

While reading the history of changes of this article I've 'learned' that Leonardo, Michelangello, Napoleon, Brigitte Bardot, Charlie Chaplin ... were Croats. I know there are many editors suffering from the inferiority complex which can be an explanation why all these 'were' Croats. I tried to clean the list removing the names which cannot be put on this list(Schwarz - an Austrian Jew, Boscovic - an Italian, Andric - a Serb). Alas, I see the same name back in the list .

A sense of personal inferiority arising from conflict between the desire to be noticed and the fear of being humiliated. In psychology, a complex, or cluster of repressed fears, described by Alfred Adler based on physical inferiority. The term is popularly used to describe general feelings of inferiority and the overcompensation that often ensues. Adler described the complex as arising from the perceived inferiority of an organ or part of the body and leading to feelings of general inferiority. He believed that everyone suffered from inferiority feelings and that the desire or determination to relieve them determined people's behavior. Failure to deal with them could lead to neurotic symptoms.

--72.66.12.17 (talk) 19:59, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

Ivo Andric

His mother was a Serbian, he refused to be listed as a Croatian in Yugoslav Encyclopedia. Please, respect his identity.--72.66.12.17 (talk) 23:16, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

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Malkovich Croat?

Read the answer here Do danas ne znam jesam li Hrvat, Crnogorac ili Bosanac (Up to today, I do not know whether I am Croat, Montenegrin, or Bosnian)

Kada je prvi put u nekim novinama napisano da sam hrvatskog podrijetla, majka mi je rekla da potječemo iz Crne Gore, za što do tada također nisam čuo--109.92.171.142 (talk) 06:33, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

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Requested move 21 July 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved as requested per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 02:05, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

List of Croatians → List of people from Croatia – Per WP:NOR, WP:NPOV, and WP:COATRACK, we cannot commingle "people from Croatia" and "people with some Croatian ancestry"; the latter isn't an encyclopedic classification anyway. Talk pages of articles with ambiguous titles like this show a lot of dispute about inclusion, and it's caused by an impermissibly confused scope and a misleading title. This should move for WP:CONSISTENCY with almost all of the rest of our "people from X" articles and categories. The remaining "List of Labels" and "List of Label people" pages are being taken one RM at a time, since they vary between labels that are ethnic, national/regional, or both, on a case-by-case basis. The scope will need cleanup; it is presently explicitly mixing people from Croatia and people who are not from there but identify as of Croatian heritage (what about 1/4 Croatian? 1/16? On the basis of what sources?). The latter is just not an encyclopedic criterion at all and is inevitably going to lead to OR and PoV. At this article it already has, and it's been tagged as problematic in this regard since 2009. Time to just fix it. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 04:11, 21 July 2018 (UTC)

Support per above and my reasoning at the move request at Talk:List of people from Sardinia. Vaselineeeeeeee 04:19, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
Comment. If I understand correctly, e.g. Nikola Tesla would be in scope of "List of people from Croatia"? I'd still slightly prefer the earlier name, "List of Croats" (the article was apparently stealthily renamed a while ago for whatever reason), although my gripe with it was that it never clearly defined the scope of the list (i.e. who is a "Croat"), and was therefore messy and pointless. GregorB (talk) 13:23, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
Tesla would still qualify, since he was born there. Also qualifies for American lists as a permanent resident and naturalized citizen. Would also qualify for a list of ethnic Serbs, if we wanted such a thing. "List of Croats" has all the problems of "List of Croatians". It's going to be confused a mixture of people who live in Croatia and people with some degree of Croatian ancestry but who have never set foot there. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 13:17, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
Support per nom. As I said, while I still feel "List of Croats" would be ideal, in the real world it devolved into an unfixable mess. (It might have worked as a list of people who self-identified as Croats, because it would be easier to get rid of all those nonsense entries, but "self-identified" would inevitably lead into another set of problems, chiefly with sourcing.) The new scope may not necessarily provide an easy way out, but I suppose it's still better than the alternatives. IMO, confusion with regard to the new scope is much less likely, but still possible (what precisely does it mean to be "from Croatia"?). However, these things can be stipulated later. GregorB (talk) 13:57, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

unnecessary and redundant marks.

- Some people in the list are marked as "Jewish". I don't see how mentioning peoples religion would improve the list. I suggest removing the mark. - Most people in the category "Architecture" are marked as "architect". This seems preety redundant to me.

62.146.75.212 (talk) 07:39, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

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