| Revision as of 02:45, 16 November 2005 editLeeHunter (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users7,703 editsNo edit summary← Previous edit | Latest revision as of 13:31, 15 November 2024 edit undoCewbot (talk | contribs)Bots7,321,221 editsm Maintain {{WPBS}}: 3 WikiProject templates. (Fix Category:Pages with redundant living parameter)Tag: Talk banner shell conversion | ||
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| ==Current state of page== | |||
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| == Cole responds to Misplaced Pages content (though indirectly) == | |||
| As the page stands now, everything above "external links" reads like a pretentious stilted official capsule biography, so that there'e no indication whatsoever of the controversies, disputes, and criticisms that he's been involved in before the "external links" section of the article. This is not satisfactory -- the reason why he's in Wikpedia at all is because of the controversies. ] 21:00, 26 October 2005 (UTC) | |||
| :He may be somewhat notorious to supporters of the Iraq invasion, but the basic reason he is in WP is that he is widely-cited commentator on Middle East affairs. The various controversies flow from that fact. --] 00:59, 27 October 2005 (UTC) | |||
| In the "autobiography" section of his blog, Cole "vigorously disputes the baseless and misleading editorializing in his current Misplaced Pages article that his views of international politics in the twenty-first century are still shaped by his youthful Baha’i misadventure." I'm afraid this was my doing--I sincerely believed this to be true, even obvious. Instead, | |||
| ==Copyvio== | |||
| Just because text appears identically elsewhere on the net, does that mean it is automatically copyright-protected? | |||
| == from ] == | |||
| I hope this is better than my first try! | |||
| ::Cole was all along an American liberal, and had thought the Baha’is were on his side, which he discovered to be an error, at least with regard to the secretive and duplicitous leadership. His political and social philosophy is rooted in American traditions going back to the Transcendentalists and going forward to Martin Luther King, Michael Harrington, and other progressives, and all along has been. | |||
| == Wikifed. == | |||
| I apologize for the misunderstanding, and will try to edit the text in line with the above (unless some more neutral person can be enlisted to do it first). Incidentally, Cole writes that he "now not interested in organized religion as a personal matter." --] | |||
| I hope this stub is going to replace the original page on or about November 30 (as the copyvio deletion policy states). Cole has just become newsworthy as a result of a lawsuit threat.--] 12:47, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC) | |||
| Maybe we should try to keep Misplaced Pages pages about living individuals as "about" them, not "by" them. Never heard of Juan Cole before today. His page is only marginally shorter than Mark Twain's... ] (]) 19:40, 2 March 2019 (UTC) | |||
| == "Michael J. Totten" == | |||
| Concur. Trim by 80%. ] (]) 23:16, 10 December 2019 (UTC) | |||
| Who is Michael J. Totten? Is he just some guy with a blog? Is the link here solely because it's something critical of Cole, or is he salient for some other reason? Sullivan and Goldberg, by contrast, are well known. —] 03:26, 2005 Mar 19 (UTC) | |||
| :And only slightly less self-congratulatory than Cuomo's pandemic book. ] (]) 04:17, 28 June 2022 (UTC) | |||
| :seems like it. There's now about four links there based around Totten's article purporting to be a "fisking" (new word to me, is there a wikipedia entry on it yet?) of Juan. I reckon possibly only the response by Ali to that one entry in Juan's blog is of any great significance. ] 12:28, Apr 10, 2005 (UTC) | |||
| == Supported US violence to destroy Saddam Hussein (Iraq) == | |||
| ::Yes, ] has an (awkward) entry. I don't see that either the Jarvis or Totten articles are salient to the Misplaced Pages; somebody just wants to get their digs in, I suspect. --] | ] 18:57, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC) | |||
| Cole has said different things at different times. This is common with most of us. However Cole's position im the media and prominence equates with something more specific, learned and intentional. Being both opposed and for a major war, sometimes both within the context of a single essay isn't a criticism of the writer, i.e a criticism of Mr Cole. Identifying propaganda, and refraining from the natural inclination to assume the description is used in the perjorative sense can help readers identity content that may be harmful to them. Most of Cole's writing is to convince readers of something more than informing them of anything outside that first goal. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 16:04, 12 May 2020 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| ==incestuous blog links removed== | |||
| I removed a couple of blog links because they didn't seem to be about anything other than an extraordinarily trivial side issue - that Cole repeated somebody else's assertion about whether some Iraqi blogger had a US sponsor. | |||
| I also removed the link to Riverbend. It was just a post that said, more or less, 'hey check out Juan Cole'.--] 01:33, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC) | |||
| :Agreed, there's nothing encyclopedic about any of those entries. --] | ] 02:07, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC) | |||
| :Good. —] 03:22, 2005 Apr 29 (UTC) | |||
| == Links == | |||
| Every link in this article is derived from critics of Juan Cole except for the link to his blog. | |||
| Other than the standard CV stuff all we have is a criticism of him. -- posted by | |||
| :I agree, except that Sullivan and Goldberg are notable figures. Almost anybody else's "response to Cole's blog" being listed is silly and promotional. Misplaced Pages '''does not exist to aggregate criticism'''. That's what sites like Technorati are for. | |||
| :My impulse here is to delete the "Iraqthemodel" link and replace it with the ''Foreign Policy in Focus'' article which featured Cole among other bloggers. --] | ] 07:43, 27 May 2005 (UTC) | |||
| :I don't see that the NPOV tag is needed. The critical articles are mostly balanced with his own (very effective) responses. --] 11:25, 27 May 2005 (UTC) | |||
| ::Yes, but Misplaced Pages isn't here to "balance". It's here to provide encyclopedic information to the public. This has nothing to do with whether he gives as good as he gets or not; the Misplaced Pages might as well cross-reference all the people who praise his posts as well. Any given debate with another blogger is not intrinsically notable. --] | ] 18:05, 27 May 2005 (UTC) | |||
| ==Chomsky== | |||
| Ok we've gone from describing his writings as "Chomskian" (which is quite frankly, bizaare) to saying that he's an admirer of Chomsky. The fact that he once briefly expressed admiration for someone in a completely different field (and only then in response to a critic who was trying to paint him as "chomskian") is hardly relevant, at least not in this very brief article. I suppose for the people who are fixated on Chomsky it's a big deal, but really, if you're going to talk about people he admires, why wouldn't you cite the other mideast historians (i.e. people in his own people) who he has referenced on many occasions? --] 02:45, 16 November 2005 (UTC) | |||
Latest revision as of 13:31, 15 November 2024
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Cole responds to Misplaced Pages content (though indirectly)
In the "autobiography" section of his blog, Cole "vigorously disputes the baseless and misleading editorializing in his current Misplaced Pages article that his views of international politics in the twenty-first century are still shaped by his youthful Baha’i misadventure." I'm afraid this was my doing--I sincerely believed this to be true, even obvious. Instead,
- Cole was all along an American liberal, and had thought the Baha’is were on his side, which he discovered to be an error, at least with regard to the secretive and duplicitous leadership. His political and social philosophy is rooted in American traditions going back to the Transcendentalists and going forward to Martin Luther King, Michael Harrington, and other progressives, and all along has been.
I apologize for the misunderstanding, and will try to edit the text in line with the above (unless some more neutral person can be enlisted to do it first). Incidentally, Cole writes that he "now not interested in organized religion as a personal matter." --Dawud
Maybe we should try to keep Misplaced Pages pages about living individuals as "about" them, not "by" them. Never heard of Juan Cole before today. His page is only marginally shorter than Mark Twain's... Klod (talk) 19:40, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
Concur. Trim by 80%. Zezen (talk) 23:16, 10 December 2019 (UTC)
- And only slightly less self-congratulatory than Cuomo's pandemic book. SamuelRiv (talk) 04:17, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
Supported US violence to destroy Saddam Hussein (Iraq)
Cole has said different things at different times. This is common with most of us. However Cole's position im the media and prominence equates with something more specific, learned and intentional. Being both opposed and for a major war, sometimes both within the context of a single essay isn't a criticism of the writer, i.e a criticism of Mr Cole. Identifying propaganda, and refraining from the natural inclination to assume the description is used in the perjorative sense can help readers identity content that may be harmful to them. Most of Cole's writing is to convince readers of something more than informing them of anything outside that first goal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.221.96.101 (talk) 16:04, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
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