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{{oldafdfull| date = 7 April 2014 (UTC) | result = '''keep''' | page = Koenraad Elst }} |
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{{WikiProject banner shell|blp=yes|class=C|listas=Elst, Koenraad|1= |
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{{WikiProject India|importance=Low|politics=yes|politics-importance=mid}} |
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== Propagandistic style == |
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This article appears as if written by some propagandists or his harsh critics. This is evident in the tone of language and content of this article. ] ] 14:18, 30 August 2018 (UTC) |
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:Please make specific suggestions, or be ] and fix the issues yourself. There is a consistent lack of support for Elst among reliable sources, so the discussion of his work is going to be critical if it is written ] (no, that's not a contradiction). ] (]) 16:47, 30 August 2018 (UTC) |
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::I suggest not using Elst as a source. If there is anything interesting he has said, find reliable secondary sources instead (if they don't exist, then the material should not be in the article). I removed the recently added one but there are a couple of other uses of Elst writings in the article and someone with more knowledge about him should probably review those as well. --] <small>(])</small> 17:52, 31 August 2018 (UTC) |
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I think we must edit the description. Its better if the description calls him an Indologist/philologist instead of an "activist", a term which he denies. It makes Wiki look biased. He has an MA in indology. And PhD in Asian Studies |
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I have edited the description, making it neutral.] (]) 13:53, 21 November 2019 (UTC) |
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== Biased Description == |
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The description is biased. I have changed it. Please let me know if there are any issues with the changes rather than reverting them back to the original.] (]) 14:17, 21 November 2019 (UTC) |
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:To copy {{U|Vanamonde93}}, {{tq|..there is a consistent lack of support for Elst among reliable sources, so the discussion of his work is going to be critical if it is written neutrally (no, that's not a contradiction).}} Lead merely reflects the body. ]] 14:21, 21 November 2019 (UTC) |
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:There's no need to notify you. You need to read ] "The lead should identify the topic and summarize the body of the article with appropriate weight." You deleted material simply because you don't like it even though it should be there to comply with WP:LEAD. ] ] 14:26, 21 November 2019 (UTC) |
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:: So an author of more than 20 books on Hinduism, Indian History and Politics is merely described as a "Hindutva Activist", what is the problem in adding "writer" in his description?] (]) 14:31, 21 November 2019 (UTC) |
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:::Author is a more accurate term; need to think about adding that .... ]] 14:37, 21 November 2019 (UTC) |
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== Changing the lead == |
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The lead says "Koenraad Elst (born 7 August 1959) is a right wing Hindutva activist, known primarily for his support of the Out of India theory and publication of Hindu Nationalist literature." |
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I would propose to edit the lead to "Koenraad Elst (born 7 August 1959) is a Belgian Indologist and author of more than 20 books on Indian history, politics and Hinduism." |
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The current description is inaccurate. Elst has himself written about the defamation in this article. ] (]) 21:46, 16 March 2020 (UTC) |
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:The article has already been adapted in response to that article. ] -] 04:10, 17 March 2020 (UTC) |
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:: I would not be comfortable with a description as an "Indologist" without an authentic source. I very much doubt his interest is really "Indology". It is just Hindutva. -- ] (]) 06:34, 17 March 2020 (UTC) |
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:::Agreed, Indologist may not be the right description, not without an authentic source. However, this description by Daniel Pipes is much better than what is currently written in the lead. ] (]) 07:44, 17 March 2020 (UTC) |
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::::Daniel Pipes is not a reliable source for this. Eg see footnote 44 Or and . ] ] 15:41, 17 March 2020 (UTC) |
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@] I couldn't find citation for phrases 'right wing' and 'activist'. Could you guide me or add relevant references? |
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I also agree with ] and ] that 'author' is more appropriate term. |
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https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Koenraad_Elst&type=revision&diff=959613987&oldid=959580602 <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 09:23, 30 May 2020 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:{{re|Dhawangupta}} activist replaced with "author, right wing is sourced here: |
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:Elst was an editor of the ] Flemish nationalist journal '']'' from 1992 to 1995, focusing on ] and had associations with ], a ] ] political party.{{sfn|Nanda|2009|pp=112–113}}<ref>{{Cite web|url=http://alfredvierling.com/?p=3240|title=NIEUW RECHTS TEN ONDER, beschreven door Dr Koenraad Elst|last=Vierling|first=Alfred|date=1 July 2013|access-date=19 April 2019}}</ref><ref>{{Cite book|title=Heidenen voor het blok : radicaal-rechts en het nieuwe heidendom|last=Zutter, Jan de, 1962-|date=2000|publisher=Houtekiet|isbn=9052405824|location=Antwerpen|pages=17|oclc=50809193}}</ref> See ], sources don't need to be in the lead. ] ] 13:25, 30 May 2020 (UTC) |
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::{{re|Doug Weller}} Thanks for the update and your response. ] (]) 12:46, 1 June 2020 (UTC) |
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{{ref talk}} |
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== Warning template suggested == |
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Certainly, the article deserves some kind of warning template. I suggest "Unbalanced", but are there other opinions? Maybe "exaggeration of his alleged right-wing affiliations" is a more proper description, but I suppose that is also covered by the term unbalanced. If you disagree, please suggest an alternative – not having a template seems unwarranted. --] (]) 14:40, 7 July 2020 (UTC) |
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No He is a strong right winger. What I say is that slander of him being a right wing by a strong leftist writer should be changed to proper qualitiative critcism of his works. No Adhominem. ] (]) 06:12, 7 August 2020 (UTC) |
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==Right wing author== |
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::{{u|LearnIndology}}, that is a flawed analogy. Only people associated with Hindutva refer to Romila Thapar and Wendy Doniger as leftist, not the mainstream. On the other hand Elst is called Right wing Hindutva by every Mainstream scholar and plenty have been listed as source. Misplaced Pages has to follow ] and clarify the subject in the lead accordingly. ] (]) 12:18, 1 February 2021 (UTC) |
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::{{u|LearnIndology}}, that is a flawed analogy. Only people associated with Hindutva refer to Romila Thapar and Wendy Doniger as leftist, not the mainstream. On the other hand Elst is called Right wing Hindutva by every Mainstream scholar and plenty have been listed as source. Misplaced Pages has to follow ] and clarify the subject in the lead accordingly. ] (]) 12:18, 1 February 2021 (UTC) |
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:::Ad infinitum; see talkpage history. ] -] 15:14, 1 February 2021 (UTC) |
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:::Ad infinitum; see talkpage history. ] -] 15:14, 1 February 2021 (UTC) |
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:::Lol!!!! Mainstream scholar?? You mean the liberal leftist cabal who show zero tolerance for truth if it is not palatable to their ideology. Misplaced Pages has become woke and you have the cheek to ask for donation in order to promote your crap ] (]) 05:32, 7 September 2023 (UTC) |
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::Well said. But you can no longer reason it out with this left wing woke Misplaced Pages ] (]) 05:33, 7 September 2023 (UTC) |
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{{yo|Walrus Ji}} Here are some quotes: |
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{{yo|Walrus Ji}} Here are some quotes: |
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:Quotes not relevant to this article Moved to User Talk, according to ] --] (]) 16:15, 1 February 2021 (UTC) |
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:Quotes not relevant to this article Moved to User Talk, according to ] --] (]) 16:15, 1 February 2021 (UTC) |
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:: Could you please stick to the subject? We're discussing Koenraad Elst, a marginal indologist only known because of his support for Hindutva and fringe theories, not Romila Thapar, an accomplished scholar. This is not the place to rehash Hindutva talking points. ] -] 16:02, 1 February 2021 (UTC) |
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:: Could you please stick to the subject? We're discussing Koenraad Elst, a marginal indologist only known because of his support for Hindutva and fringe theories, not Romila Thapar, an accomplished scholar. This is not the place to rehash Hindutva talking points. ] -] 16:02, 1 February 2021 (UTC) |
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:::This article begins with loaded words: "Hindutva ideology... Out of India theory.. universally.. pseudo-historical... mainstream scholarship... accuse.. Islamophobia.". |
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:::That's before you know ANYTHING about him. The editors insist that this is fair and ], but, as with lots of articles that relate to India, it tells you that this is the colonial WASP viewpoint. Believe it at your own risk.] (]) 07:10, 27 May 2024 (UTC) |
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== "Who is a Hindu: Hindu revivalist views of Animism, Buddhism, Sikhism, and other offshoots of Hinduism" listed at ] == |
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] |
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An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect ] and has thus listed it ]. This discussion will occur at ] until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> ] (]) 17:22, 27 October 2022 (UTC) |
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== neutral policy on politics == |
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The introduction was more of a negative statement, where as any political author would be first called, "american author" or "indian author" he was not even called a political thinker but a right wing individual and islamophobic. This is not a introduction but an allegation thus it needs to be corrected as per the policy of wikipedia, ] (]) 07:25, 5 January 2023 (UTC) |
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:@] We aren't neutral in that sense. We try to reflect reliable mainstream sources. Thus our articles on Creationism make it clear that its wrong, our articles on Nazis aren't neutral towards them. See ] ] ] 09:52, 5 January 2023 (UTC) |
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::When the present mainstream is itself biased with leftist attitude with woke ideologies, then it could misrepresent the views of many Hindu authors and Hindu teachings itself. ] (]) 01:04, 15 February 2024 (UTC) |
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== Introduction == |
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Lacks any proper source for 'harbouring Islamophobia'. Even the affiliation to RSS is not credible. ] (]) 11:22, 17 February 2023 (UTC) |
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:There are more than sufficient references to this in alone - by writer and historian ], published by the New York University Press. What is lacking here? ] (]) 12:42, 17 February 2023 (UTC) |
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::I do not know about the RSS what I do know is that if you're going to write about current day organizations and authors it's best to separate their core beliefs and foundational values and the actions of that group and it's members. For example, inform people about the BJP and it's policies based on it's Manifesto and after that terms such as Islamaphobia and Hinduvta can be used to refer to the actions of that group or some individuals within it, unless of course their doctrines by that very nature is Islamaphobic. ] (]) 01:06, 15 February 2024 (UTC) |
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== Bibliography == |
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Most biographies of academics, authors, scholars, etc, on Misplaced Pages have a Bibliography section of the individual's work. It is very odd that a Bibliography section for Elst does not exist in his bio. It needs to be added given that he is a rather prolific author who has written many books. ] (]) 15:49, 15 March 2023 (UTC) |
The introduction was more of a negative statement, where as any political author would be first called, "american author" or "indian author" he was not even called a political thinker but a right wing individual and islamophobic. This is not a introduction but an allegation thus it needs to be corrected as per the policy of wikipedia, Ujjwaljha007 (talk) 07:25, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
Most biographies of academics, authors, scholars, etc, on Misplaced Pages have a Bibliography section of the individual's work. It is very odd that a Bibliography section for Elst does not exist in his bio. It needs to be added given that he is a rather prolific author who has written many books. 38.65.249.252 (talk) 15:49, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Who is a Hindu: Hindu revivalist views of Animism, Buddhism, Sikhism, and other offshoots of Hinduism and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Misplaced Pages:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 October 27#Who is a Hindu: Hindu revivalist views of Animism, Buddhism, Sikhism, and other offshoots of Hinduism until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Iskandar323 (talk) 17:22, 27 October 2022 (UTC)