Revision as of 02:51, 16 October 2022 editAndyTheGrump (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers54,013 edits →Basic Research duckweed/ arsenic: do not edit posts after they have been replied to← Previous edit |
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|author = ] |
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|title = Ivermectin booster Dr. Tess Lawrie goes all-in for homeopathy for COVID and long COVID |
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|date = March 6, 2023 |
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|org = ] |
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|url = https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/ivermectin-booster-dr-tess-lawrie-goes-all-in-for-homeopathy-for-covid-and-long-covid/ |
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|quote = Lawrie, as is the case with most quacks, is not happy with Misplaced Pages. Indeed, she starts out by looking at Misplaced Pages: "Let’s start with the lies and misinformation about homeopathy. Here's how the internet's propaganda factory Misplaced Pages currently defines it:" |
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|accessdate = March 13, 2023 |
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| author2 = Syeda ShahBano Ijaz |
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| title2 = How Conflicts and Population Loss Led to the Rise of English Misplaced Pages’s Credibility |
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| url2 = https://politicalsciencenow.com/how-conflicts-and-population-loss-led-to-the-rise-of-english-wikipedias-credibility/ |
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| date2 = 29 May 2023 |
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| quote2 = Take the example of the Misplaced Pages page on homeopathy: from 2001-2006, the lead on the page described homeopathy as a “controversial system of alternative medicine.” From 2006-2013, the content changed to mentioning that homeopathy has been “regarded as pseudoscience” and sharing that there is a “lack of convincing scientific evidence confirming its efficacy.” By 2015, this description had stabilized to “homeopathy is a pseudoscience.” |
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| accessdate2 = 30 May 2023 |
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== Mathematically impossible statement == |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 2 October 2022 == |
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{{archive top|Not going anywhere good. ] (]) 13:33, 2 October 2022 (UTC)}} |
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{{Edit semi-protected|Homeopathy|answered=yes}} |
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This article is an attack piece and unfit for an encyclopedia like Misplaced Pages. Some editors seem to have cherry picked the poor studies to attack Homeopathy. and show it is effective if its principles (of similarity and minimum dose) are followed.- ] (]) 01:31, 2 October 2022 (UTC) |
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:Many celebrities, including ] take Homeopathy but this article doesn't mention that. Why?-] (]) 01:42, 2 October 2022 (UTC) |
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:] '''Not done:''' it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a ] and provide a ] if appropriate.<!-- Template:ESp --> ] (]) 01:44, 2 October 2022 (UTC) |
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:: Please remove this: {{TQ|"All relevant scientific knowledge about physics, chemistry, biochemistry and biology contradicts homeopathy. Homeopathic remedies are typically biochemically inert, and have no effect on any known disease. Its theory of disease, centered around principles Hahnemann termed miasms, is inconsistent with subsequent identification of viruses and bacteria as causes of disease. Clinical trials have been conducted and generally demonstrated no objective effect from homeopathic preparations.: 206 The fundamental implausibility of homeopathy as well as a lack of demonstrable effectiveness has led to it being characterized within the scientific and medical communities as quackery and fraud."}} from the lead.-] (]) 04:35, 2 October 2022 (UTC) |
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:::Why? - ]the ] 05:39, 2 October 2022 (UTC) |
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::{{tq|Many celebrities}} What is encyclopedic about that? --] (]) 06:45, 2 October 2022 (UTC) |
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:::The section you seek to remove has about 15 references. You haven't given any valid reason for trying to remove any of it.--] (]) 09:26, 2 October 2022 (UTC) |
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::::{{U|Dmol}}, I am asking to remove those sentences because it is attacking the system which is not how an encyclopaedia should be (an encyclopaedia should just state what something is, without attacking it).-] (]) 13:22, 2 October 2022 (UTC) |
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:::::It's not attacking it, it's describing it. --] (]) 13:27, 2 October 2022 (UTC) |
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:::::Also, all of this is covered by the FAQ at the top of this page. --] (]) 13:28, 2 October 2022 (UTC) |
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::::::{{Spam link|date=October 2022}} is about celebrities who used it. Shouldn't they be mentioned?-] (]) 13:36, 2 October 2022 (UTC) |
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== Please add first name == |
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In the lead section, can someone add "Samuel" in front of "Hahnemann" in this sentence: |
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"Its theory of disease, centered around principles ____ Hahnemann termed" |
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Its the first time he is mentioned in the article and should be specifically identified. |
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Thank you! ] (]) 23:35, 3 October 2022 (UTC) |
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The article contains this statement: |
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:Reordered it so Hahnemann is mentioned earlier with his full name and link. Thanks for flagging. ] ] 05:27, 4 October 2022 (UTC) |
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"A 200C dilution of duck liver, marketed under the name Oscillococcinum, would require 10^320 universes worth of molecules to contain just one original molecule in the final substance." |
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==Basic Research duckweed/ arsenic== |
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This does not make any sense. For one, the volume of diluent would have to be (literally) astronomically large. For two, I'm pretty sure no known scientific process achieves this level of purity. If homeopaths in fact claim to achieve this level of purity, I suppose that's just another false claim: but I don't think it should be treated as a fact. ] (]) 02:13, 29 July 2024 (UTC) |
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In Switzerland at the University of Bern at the Institute of Complementary and Integrative Medicine Classical Homeopathy / Potentiazed Substancesare researched.University of Bern,Institute of Complementary and Integrative Medicine, Inselspital Bern, Freiburgstrasse 46, CH-3010 Bern |
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:It's supposed to be earth atmoshpheres not "universes", I think.<span id="Usedtobecool:1722222132127:TalkFTTCLNHomeopathy" class="FTTCmt"> — ''']''' ] 03:02, 29 July 2024 (UTC)</span> |
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*https://www.ikim.unibe.ch/about_us/contact/index_eng.html |
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::No, it's universes. The math is supposed to show how aburd homeopaths' claims are. Of course, homeopaths do not do the diluting all at once: take one "duck liver molecule" (whatever that may be) and 10^320 universes of water. They do it step by step, and in summary it amounts to that. --] (]) 04:42, 29 July 2024 (UTC) |
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*https://www.ikim.unibe.ch/unibe/portal/fak_medizin/dept_lehremed/inst_kom/content/e54415/e54416/e54418/e122276/pane122425/e1073382/JahresberichtIKIM-HOM-2019_2020_DE_ger.pdf |
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:::That's precisely the point, though: no human can perform a dilution "step by step" that achieves anything even remotely resembling 1 molecule in 1 galaxy's worth, much less 1 universe's worth. This 10^320 universes must come from bad math or some mistake somewhere. If the idea is to discredit homeopathy, it would be best not to do so with logically impossible math / physics. ] (]) 14:46, 29 July 2024 (UTC) |
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*https://de.wikipedia.org/Wasserlinsen#/media/Datei:LemnaMinor.jpg page 7 |
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::::Demonstrating that something is mathematically impossible seems to me to be a darned good way to discredit it. ] (]) 14:50, 29 July 2024 (UTC) |
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*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIDRFeaPFYg |
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::::The ''maths'' itself is correct - a 200C dilution is genuinely that small a resulting number of molecules. And it's actually not that difficult to dilute something to that level - it's only a 1:100 dilution performed 200 times. If you were diluting in bigger amounts of solvent you could do it very quickly. ] 15:02, 29 July 2024 (UTC) |
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in german : |
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:::::If this is all ], it doesn’t need to be included, mathematically sound or not. It’s like refuting creationism with the ]— you don’t need to prove something with no basis in science, that clearly is incompatible with science on a macroscopic scale (it doesn’t work) is ''also'' incompatible with science on a microscopic scale. That should be obvious. ] (]) 15:49, 29 July 2024 (UTC) |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_van-G2HXs |
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::::::It cites a source. ] (]) 16:03, 29 July 2024 (UTC) |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7M-qcP_pDY |
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:::::::It still seems like kind of a strange statement to include for the same reason I already described. Does this help the reader understand the topic or just double down on the fact that homeopathy obviously has no basis in science in a weird, overly technical way? ] (]) 16:11, 29 July 2024 (UTC) |
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--] (]) 02:07, 16 October 2022 (UTC) |
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::::::::I made this edit, to make clearer to readers that it isn't OR: . --] (]) 17:24, 30 July 2024 (UTC) |
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:A photo of duckweed isn't 'research'. And YouTube videos aren't even remotely acceptable as sources in regards to any claims regarding medical efficacy. See ] for what would be required. ] (]) 17:43, 15 October 2022 (UTC) |
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:This study evaluated the effects with arsenic-stressed duckweed (Lemna gibba L.). The test substances were applied and compared with controls (unsuccussed and succussed water) regarding their influence on the plant's growth rate. Duckweed was stressed with arsenic. Afterwards, plants grew in either potentized substances or water controls All experiments were randomized and blinded. |
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*https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21057725/ |
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--] (]) 19:40, 15 October 2022 (UTC) |
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* Junk primary research from dodgy publisher. Not usable. ] (]) 19:44, 15 October 2022 (UTC) |
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:* Yep. ] is not a reliable source for what day it is, let alone science. ] 20:45, 15 October 2022 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 10 August 2024 == |
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OP, do not edit posts after they have been replied to. It makes following the flow of discussions impossible. ] (]) 02:51, 16 October 2022 (UTC) |
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{{edit semi-protected|Homeopathy|answered=yes}} |
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This critique of homeopathy focuses on the system's funding, pseudo-scientific aspects, and the flaws in its purported benefits, rather than providing an objective overview of the system itself. It targets and undermines the supporters of homeopathy, leading me to question Misplaced Pages's reliability. For instance, some people assert that vaccines are scientifically proven to be beneficial, while others, presenting genuine cases of side effects, argue against them. If I were to present only one-sided arguments on Misplaced Pages, how would the extensive research in this field be valued? My concern is that Misplaced Pages should not provide a platform for biased views to propagate. The sheer number of references does not necessarily validate the claims, as opposing viewpoints are often supported by numerous sources as well. If Misplaced Pages lacks the ethical standards to prevent the publication of content without considering the writer's bias or without an editorial board to set boundaries, readers like me may lose trust in the platform. |
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] (]) 09:28, 10 August 2024 (UTC) |
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:{{notdone}} Please use this template for precise editing requests on matters where consensus has been achieved. ] (]) 09:34, 10 August 2024 (UTC) |
The article contains this statement:
"A 200C dilution of duck liver, marketed under the name Oscillococcinum, would require 10^320 universes worth of molecules to contain just one original molecule in the final substance."
This does not make any sense. For one, the volume of diluent would have to be (literally) astronomically large. For two, I'm pretty sure no known scientific process achieves this level of purity. If homeopaths in fact claim to achieve this level of purity, I suppose that's just another false claim: but I don't think it should be treated as a fact. Andrewbrink (talk) 02:13, 29 July 2024 (UTC)