Talk:Ron Dellums: Difference between revisions

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	== Removed uncited material ==

	According to ]

	There is a source, although it was not used, for the diary.

	The only source I could find for the diary is Jay Nordlinger.

			== External links modified ==
	], in his book, ''In Castro's Corner — African Americans alleged affinity for Cuba'' claims that during the U.S. Marine invasion of the island, the diary of the former Grenadian defense minister was found, and that one entry (date not specified) in it read: "The Revo has been able to crush counter-revolution internationally. Airport will be used for Cuban and Soviet military."

			Hello fellow Wikipedians,
	This is all that Nordlinger says. He doesn't expand on that. I couldn't find a reference to it anywhere else that didn't reference his book or the book review for the National Review, that he is senior editor for, which makes it akin to self publishing to cite it in any case. The book is, from my brief look at it, pretty much what you'd expect from the title, a series of guilt by association 'allegations' against African Americans. Whatever. That isn't as important as, he gives no verification for it at all. He just says it. So I removed it to here, for discussion.

			I have just added archive links to {{plural:1\|one external link\|1 external links}} on ]. Please take a moment to review . If necessary, add {{tlx\|cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{tlx\|nobots\|deny{{=}}InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
	Ultimately it is a good thing. Because he was smearing Dellums I got to find out about Dellums trip from this page and put that in another article that needed it. ] (]) 14:15, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
			*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20120315144622/http://www.gsenet.org/library/10gov/lcv104th.php to http://www.gsenet.org/library/10gov/lcv104th.php

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	::Good reference checking Archangel! Sounds like an article on Nordlinger might be and interesting read. And which article might the other one you alluded to be? Please educate us?] (]) 16:02, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

			{{sourcecheck\|checked=false}}
	:::]
	::: ] (]) 12:40, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

			Cheers. —]<small><sub style="margin-left:-14.9ex;color:green;font-family:Comic Sans MS">]:Online</sub></small> 02:34, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
	== Removed inaccurate assertion ==

			== External links modified ==
	The DSA "historian" who claimed Dellums was the first socialist elected to congress after WW II ignores the tenure of ] who served 10 terms in Congress and was elected twice after the end of WW II, in 1946 and 1948, from New York's 18th Congressional District. After winning on the Republican party ticket in 1936, he was on the American Labor Party ticket but was elected as a fusion candidate often simultaneously taking the Democratic and Republican party majorities in his races. ] (]) 06:27, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

			Hello fellow Wikipedians,
	== misrepresentations ==

			I have just modified 9 external links on ]. Please take a moment to review . If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit ] for additional information. I made the following changes:
	"As crime rates in Oakland have remained high since Dellums took office in January 2007, at his first State of the City Address in January 2008, Dellums called for hiring more police officers. Dellums promised that by year's end, the police department would be fully staffed at 803 officers. On November 14, 2008, 38 Oakland police officers were added to the force after graduating the 165th academy, bringing the department's force to 837 officers, the most in OPD history."
			*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060802192545/http://www.dsausa.org/about/history.html to http://www.dsausa.org/about/history.html
			*Added {{tlx\|dead link}} tag to http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1077/is_n10_v49/ai_15687226
			*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20061002124112/http://www.pww.org/article/articleview/9392/1/266/ to http://www.pww.org/article/articleview/9392/1/266/
			*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20061027021907/http://www.aaregistry.com/african_american_history/2670/Ron_Dellums_an_active_presence_from_California to http://www.aaregistry.com/african_american_history/2670/Ron_Dellums_an_active_presence_from_California
			*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060821135707/http://www.ou.edu/special/albertctr/archives/cohelan.htm to http://ou.edu/special/albertctr/archives/cohelan.htm
			*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071015215304/http://opensecrets.org/pubs/cashingin_defense/defense3.html to http://www.opensecrets.org/pubs/cashingin_defense/defense3.html
			*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20051030120501/http://www.house.gov/pelosi/fldellum.htm to http://www.house.gov/pelosi/fldellum.htm
			*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20051029140538/http://www.house.gov/harman/issues/statements/105/020398ST_TributeDellum.htm to http://www.house.gov/harman/issues/statements/105/020398ST_TributeDellum.htm
			*Added {{tlx\|dead link}} tag to http://schoolweb.ousd.k12.ca.us/NewTeacherResource/Teach%20Tomorrow.html
			*Added {{tlx\|dead link}} tag to http://www.eastbayexpress.com/2007-04-25/news/oak-to-ninth-yin-yang/full
			*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100103104300/http://articles.sfgate.com/2009-11-04/news/17179816_1_irs-lien-mayor-s-tax-alameda-county to http://articles.sfgate.com/2009-11-04/news/17179816_1_irs-lien-mayor-s-tax-alameda-county
			*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071115125732/http://www.eastbayexpress.com/news/a_misdirected_missive/Content?oid=518223 to http://www.eastbayexpress.com/news/a_misdirected_missive/Content?oid=518223

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	:This makes it sound like Dellums was behind hiring more officers, when actually, this was a response to a ''lawsuit'' by a resident because a funds generated through a parcel tax residents passed to increase police staffing were being misused. The funds were to be locked up until the city reached "full staffing" of 803, then released to fund additional officers, but the city was spending the funds while the department was far under this number. Dellums had nothing to do with this other than doing his duties as required by law. ] (]) 21:18, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

			{{sourcecheck\|checked=false\|needhelp=}}
	::As is the case with United States Presidents, who are generally held accountable for the economic successes and failures that occur during their time in office, it could be strongly argued in a similar fashion that big city american mayors are also held accountable, not only for police staffing, but even more broadly for crime stats that are chalked-up on their watch. The body politic of Oakland and local new media held Dellums' predacessor ] accountable for the same crime and police issues, albeit in a different way perhaps. Your analysis of the Measure Y suit is an entirely different conversation in and of itself. Measure Y funds were not dedicated simply to hiring more officers; part of the money was actually earmarked by Oakland voters for social programs, remember? Back to staffing, take a good look at Oakaland's city charter, and you will see that the 'strong mayor' (I'm assuming you know what that means) actually does have hiring and firing authority over the Police Chief and City Administrator and not-insignifcant influence over fiscal year budget proposals, you know those annoying little details that affect things like police hiring freezes and whether there will be two, one or no police academy classes next year. If that merely constitutes an executuion of "duties required by law," you can make an argument that he's really anti-police in his heart of hearts until you're blue in the face, but that doesn't take away from the bottom line that he brought OPD up to 837 officers during his second year in office. I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that he accomplished this while simultaneously pushing for the "civilianization" of certain OPD jobs that do not necessitate a sworn officer with a quarter million dollars of first year salary and training. ] 01:02, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

			Cheers.—] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">(])</span> 16:34, 24 May 2017 (UTC)
	:How does that change the '''bottom line''' that Dellums was responding to both a lawsuit and citizen outrage? The writing makes it sound like Dellums pulled for this, leading the charge, when in actuality he ''reacted''.
	Measure Y money can only be ''legally'' spent when the city pays for 739 officers out of ''non-measure-Y'' funds. Well the city wasn't upholding its end of the bargain: spending the measure Y money ''and'' shrinking the force below 739
	:Dellums pushed to get measure NN, another $75 million tax, on the ballot, knowing full well it would fail and he could claim "what can i say? the people voted against more police". What citizen would vote for another police tax when Dellums and the city refused to spent the taxes raised through measure Y on police?
	:] comparisons aside, I think using less expensive staff where appropriate is a good idea. But none of that changes the misprepresentations in the article. ] (]) 17:45, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

	== ~~"Bringing~~ ~~home~~ ~~the bacon"~~ ==		== External links modified ==

			Hello fellow Wikipedians,
	Hardly encyclopedic language. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 16:07, 8 April 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

			I have just modified 2 external links on ]. Please take a moment to review . If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit ] for additional information. I made the following changes:
	== 2.2.5 "Opposition to integration of gays in the military" ==
			*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120308034431/http://baic.house.gov/member-profiles/profile.html?intID=38 to http://baic.house.gov/member-profiles/profile.html?intID=38
			*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20020415051438/http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/Maudelle-Shirek-Idealist-Berkeley.htm to http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/Maudelle-Shirek-Idealist-Berkeley.htm

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	That entire paragraph needs proper citation. Another editor weighed in on this topic by reverting the paragraph. I'm inclined to keep it out of the article also until it can be properly sourced from the Congressional Record, or any other sources, particularly the part about Dellums opposing defense appropriations "on economic principles." This is no place for ]. Please weigh in on this, I'd like to hear from other editors on this issue. ] 06:17, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

			{{sourcecheck\|checked=false\|needhelp=}}
	I see that few seem to have been particularly interested in this (the above author posted nearly four years ago), but this passage also caught my eye. Not only is the sourcing lackluster, but I think the title is misleading, for it suggests at a casual glance that Dellums was opposed to integration. ] (]) 01:52, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

			Cheers.—] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">(])</span> 23:05, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
	== Primary sourcing, UNDUE, POV, SYNTH ==

			== External links modified ==
	I undid for the following reasons
	* "Far Left" - The article on the ] calls them left, not far left, while the ] were describes them as black nationalist and socialist; these are centre-left, not far left. (Maoist, for example, are far left). Seems like POV pushing to label these groups as "far left".
	** Supported by these groups - two primary sources, from 1968 and 1970 - are used to support the statement that support for Dellums came from these groups. Using two primary sources from 45 and 47 years ago to draw conclusions seems like ]
	** Focussing on support from two groups, without a proper analysis of ''where'' Dellums support came from in a broader context, raises concerns about ]
	** "Often referred to as a political radical" - again, it's inappropriate to draw from 45-47-year-old primary sources.
	* Nicaragua - again, a statement without context, drawn from a 35-year-old primary source, raises questions of UNDUE.
	We can't have editors delving into ancient primary sources to cherry-pick bits of information or draw novel conclusions. ] (]) 04:52, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

			Hello fellow Wikipedians,
	And uses an SPS to make disparaging statements about a ], which is not acceptable per policy. And it looks like there's existing information sourced to David Horowitz's "FrontPage Mag", which is not considered a reliable source for news, far less for a BLP (per extensive discussion in the archives on ]. ] (]) 05:04, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

			I have just modified 7 external links on ]. Please take a moment to review ]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit ] for additional information. I made the following changes:
	*It was not cherry picking that the primary sources are not "ancient." These two bogus criticisms are evidence of ]
			*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060823093403/http://utopia.utexas.edu/avoice/about/cbc.html to http://utopia.utexas.edu/avoice/about/cbc.html
	*The sources used were standard accepted sources, among them the New York Times.
			*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071115041640/http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04%2F02%2F25%2F1613200 to http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04%2F02%2F25%2F1613200
	*Because a source is 45 to 47 years old does not make it false. In fact it is very appropriate considering that they are contemporary sources.
			*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090404071202/http://cbs5.com/crime/oakland.officers.funeral.2.969495.html to http://cbs5.com/crime/oakland.officers.funeral.2.969495.html
	*Calling the Black Panthers "centre-left" is laughable. The group is even listed as Far-Left in the article on ]. And John F. Kennedy historian Arthur M. Schlessinger in "The Imperial Presidency" (p. 258) referred to the Peace and Freedom Party as Far-Left. Both groups are connected to the ], a Marxist-Leninist group. It is you who is pushing POV.
			*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100620203407/http://americaspromise.org/Our-Work/Community-Action/~/media/Files/Our%20Work/Dropout%20Prevention/Grad%20Nation%20Action%20Forum/Oakland%20Overview%20Brief.ashx to http://www.americaspromise.org/Our-Work/Community-Action/~/media/Files/Our%20Work/Dropout%20Prevention/Grad%20Nation%20Action%20Forum/Oakland%20Overview%20Brief.ashx
	*The two assertions about ] are fallacious. The sources used are all ] and the assertions appeals to novelty, a logical fallacy.
			*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080127015628/http://www.eastbayexpress.com/news/dellums__scarlet_letter/Content?oid=479654 to http://www.eastbayexpress.com/news/dellums__scarlet_letter/Content?oid=479654
	*As for the message regarding living people, said articles should have both positive and negative information as long as they are supported by the facts, otherwise they will not have a neutral POV.] (]) 05:31, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
			*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20031205041602/http://www.ss.ca.gov/elections/elections_elections.htm to http://www.ss.ca.gov/elections/elections_elections.htm
			*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071003201827/http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=3512 to http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=3512

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	*Additionally, you incorrectly removed an item as SPS, but if you had looked at the source it had a pdf of the actual letter. The letter can be seen on the cited page, therefore it does not constitute SPS.] (]) 05:45, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

			{{sourcecheck\|checked=false\|needhelp=}}
	I did not add information from FrontPage Mag. That was another user. You need to check your facts before making accusations.] (]) 05:33, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

			Cheers.—] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">(])</span> 06:57, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
	Based on the above, I undid your revisions and removed the citation from FrontPage Mag that was introduced by another user/editor as SPS.] (]) 05:53, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

			== Oscar Grant III ==
	:''The letter can be seen on the cited page, therefore it does not constitute SPS'' - Please don't make as transparently false a claim as this. ] (]) 06:02, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
			]
			Per the revert of an edit made at 08:18, 11 May 2020: it seems to me this was a significant enough event during his mayoralty to warrant mentioning. Dellums . Am I not following any Wiki editing guidelines that led you to make your edit, or are you challenging based on it's relevance to Dellums? Asking earnestly - I'm a relatively new editor. --] (]) 08:49, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
			:This is something that happened on BART property, from the actions of the BART Police and a BART Police officer. The only connection I can see to Ron Dellums and the government of the City of Oakland is that the BART station is within the city limits of Oakland. That's it.
			:Did you have anything that suggests any other connection? Because you've certainly made none. --] \| ] 09:37, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
			::How would this sound? Seeking out your help! --] (]) 09:15, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
			:::Oscar Grant III was a 22-year-old African-American man who was fatally shot in the early morning hours of New Year's Day 2009 by BART Police Officer Johannes Mehserle, during the third year of Dellums' term. Responding to reports of a fight on a crowded BART train returning from San Francisco, BART Police officers detained Grant and several other passengers on the platform at the Fruitvale BART Station. While Grant was held down in a prone position, Mehserle drew his pistol and shot him in the back. Grant was rushed to Highland Hospital in Oakland and pronounced dead later that day. Dellums' response to the event has been criticized by local ] media outlet the '']''<ref>{{cite web \|last1=Kambon \|first1=Malaika \|title=Centuries of rage: The murder of Oscar Grant III \|url=https://sfbayview.com/2015/02/centuries-of-rage-the-murder-of-oscar-grant-iii/ \|website=San Francisco Bay View \|publisher=San Francisco Bay View National Black Newspaper \|accessdate=26 May 2020}}</ref>. The events were captured on multiple official and private digital video and privately owned cell phone cameras, and owners disseminated their footage to media outlets of all stripes, and to various websites where it went viral. Both peaceful and violent protests took place in the following days. Dellums professed support for these demonstrations<ref>{{cite web \|title=Ron Dellums Speaks About Oscar Grant \|url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiDJbd2L_6k \|website=YouTube \|accessdate=26 May 2020}}</ref>. The film '']'' dramatizes these events.
			{{talkref}}
			:Reading this, I couldn't tell anyone what Dellum's response was, nor why it was criticized by one particular newspaper. The cite for "Dellums' response has been criticized" doesn't mention Dellums at all in the body of the article; rather, the caption for a photograph of a demonstrator asserts Dellums "refused...to confront the issue". This proposed edit also suggests (probably clumsily) that Dellums professed support for violent protests. I'd like to see much less biased sourcing for the event and a non-YouTube source for Dellums comments about the event. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 15:06, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 21:30, 16 November 2024

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Oscar Grant III

User:Calton Per the revert of an edit made at 08:18, 11 May 2020: it seems to me this was a significant enough event during his mayoralty to warrant mentioning. Dellums called for a federal inquiry on the shooting. Am I not following any Wiki editing guidelines that led you to make your edit, or are you challenging based on it's relevance to Dellums? Asking earnestly - I'm a relatively new editor. --47.144.151.55 (talk) 08:49, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

This is something that happened on BART property, from the actions of the BART Police and a BART Police officer. The only connection I can see to Ron Dellums and the government of the City of Oakland is that the BART station is within the city limits of Oakland. That's it.

Did you have anything that suggests any other connection? Because you've certainly made none. --Calton | Talk 09:37, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

How would this sound? Seeking out your help! --47.144.151.55 (talk) 09:15, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Oscar Grant III was a 22-year-old African-American man who was fatally shot in the early morning hours of New Year's Day 2009 by BART Police Officer Johannes Mehserle, during the third year of Dellums' term. Responding to reports of a fight on a crowded BART train returning from San Francisco, BART Police officers detained Grant and several other passengers on the platform at the Fruitvale BART Station. While Grant was held down in a prone position, Mehserle drew his pistol and shot him in the back. Grant was rushed to Highland Hospital in Oakland and pronounced dead later that day. Dellums' response to the event has been criticized by local black liberation media outlet the San Francisco Bay View. The events were captured on multiple official and private digital video and privately owned cell phone cameras, and owners disseminated their footage to media outlets of all stripes, and to various websites where it went viral. Both peaceful and violent protests took place in the following days. Dellums professed support for these demonstrations. The film Fruitvale Station dramatizes these events.

References

Kambon, Malaika. "Centuries of rage: The murder of Oscar Grant III". San Francisco Bay View. San Francisco Bay View National Black Newspaper. Retrieved 26 May 2020.
"Ron Dellums Speaks About Oscar Grant". YouTube. Retrieved 26 May 2020.

Reading this, I couldn't tell anyone what Dellum's response was, nor why it was criticized by one particular newspaper. The cite for "Dellums' response has been criticized" doesn't mention Dellums at all in the body of the article; rather, the caption for a photograph of a demonstrator asserts Dellums "refused...to confront the issue". This proposed edit also suggests (probably clumsily) that Dellums professed support for violent protests. I'd like to see much less biased sourcing for the event and a non-YouTube source for Dellums comments about the event. --jpgordon 15:06, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

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