Misplaced Pages

Talk:Battle of Donbas (2022): Difference between revisions

Article snapshot taken from Wikipedia with creative commons attribution-sharealike license. Give it a read and then ask your questions in the chat. We can research this topic together.
Browse history interactively← Previous editContent deleted Content addedVisualWikitext
Revision as of 06:01, 21 October 2023 editBaba Mica (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users2,666 edits →Hastily to supplement: ReplyTag: Reply← Previous edit Latest revision as of 12:29, 24 November 2024 edit undoHoben7599 (talk | contribs)637 editsNo edit summary 
(37 intermediate revisions by 13 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
<!---{{merged-from|Sloviansk offensive}}--->
{{Talk header|age=30|bot=ClueBot III}}
{{Talk header}}
{{Ds/talk notice|topic=e-e}} {{gs/talk notice|topic=rusukr}}
{{Contentious topics/talk notice|topic=e-e}}
{{Old moves|date1=23 February 2023|destination1=War in Donbas (2022–present)|result1=not moved|link1=Special:Permalink/1142305755#Requested move 23 February 2023 {{Old moves|date1=23 February 2023|destination1=War in Donbas (2022–present)|result1=not moved|link1=Special:Permalink/1142305755#Requested move 23 February 2023
|date2=27 March 2023|destination2=Donbas campaign|result2=not moved|link2=Special:Permalink/1149643182#Requested move 27 March 2023 |date2=27 March 2023|destination2=Donbas campaign|result2=not moved|link2=Special:Permalink/1149643182#Requested move 27 March 2023
|date3=29 July 2023 |from3=Battle of Donbas (2022–present) |destination3=Battle of Donbas |result3=not moved/withdrawn |link3=Special:Permalink/1167968987#Requested move 29 July 2023 |date3=29 July 2023 |from3=Battle of Donbas (2022–present) |destination3=Battle of Donbas |result3=not moved/withdrawn |link3=Special:Permalink/1167968987#Requested move 29 July 2023
|date4=31 August 2023|from4=Battle of Donbas (2022–present)|destination4=Battle of Donbas (2022)|result4=moved|link4=Special:Permalink/1174250677#Requested move 31 August 2023}} |date4=31 August 2023|from4=Battle of Donbas (2022–present)|destination4=Battle of Donbas (2022)|result4=moved|link4=Special:Permalink/1174250677#Requested move 31 August 2023}}
{{WikiProject banner shell|collapsed=y|1= {{WikiProject banner shell|collapsed=y|class=C|1=
{{WikiProject International relations|class=C}} {{WikiProject International relations}}
{{WikiProject Military history|European-task-force=y|Russian-task-force=y|Post-Cold-War-task-force=y|class=C|b1=no|b2=yes|b3=yes|b4=yes|b5=yes}} {{WikiProject Military history|European-task-force=y|Russian-task-force=y|Post-Cold-War-task-force=y|class=C|b1=no|b2=yes|b3=yes|b4=yes|b5=yes}}
{{WikiProject Russia|class=C|importance=Mid|mil=yes|pol=yes}} {{WikiProject Russia|importance=Mid|mil=yes|pol=yes}}
{{WikiProject Ukraine|class=C|importance=High}} {{WikiProject Ukraine|importance=High}}
}} }}
{{Annual readership}} {{Annual readership}}
{{Translated|uk|Битва за Донбас (2022)|small=no}} {{Translated|uk|Битва за Донбас (2022)|small=no}}
{{merged-from|Sloviansk offensive|7 April 2024}}
{{merged-from|Battle of Siversk|16 April 2024}}
{{merged-from|Battle of Kreminna|2 May 2024}}
{{merged-from|Battle of Toshkivka|16 June 2024}}
{{merged-from|Battle of Sviatohirsk|21 June 2024}}
{{merged-from|First battle of Lyman|23 June 2024}}
{{User:ClueBot III/ArchiveThis {{User:ClueBot III/ArchiveThis
| age=720 | age=720
Line 23: Line 31:
}} }}


== Request to have status and title changed ==
== Post-move cleanup ==


I request to the status changed from inconclusive to ongoing. There's no indication that the battle of Donbas is over. There's still fighting ongoing in settlements and cities in the Donbas such Advika, Marinka, near Bakhmut and surrounding areas. It doesn't make any sense that the battle is considered over while both sides are still launching offensive to capture territory in the region. I also request to change the title to "Battle of Donbas (2022-present)", as the battle is still ongoing. ] (]) 06:31, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
I've already merged most of the out-of-scope material to ], but there's still some stuff that needs to be done. The stats in "Casualties" include stuff after September, for instance, which I've marked. It would also be really good to have some sort of conclusion or "Aftermath" section to wrap the article up, rather than it just ending abruptly at the end of August like it does now. ] (]) 00:01, 13 September 2023 (UTC)


:I think the issue comes from the fact that we are still using terminology from when the war was still mobile. The choice to separate the war to "campaigns", like ] made sense because at the time it was mostly about Russians rapidly advancing without a solid frontline (and many probably thought it will be over soon). Now however it's the opposite, static fighting that far surpasses the scope of a single campaign taking place in the same area, so any "Battle of ____" article bloats out of proportion, because years on, fighting still takes place there, so we still file it under the same article.
== Proposed merge of ] into ] ==
:The battle of Donbass was always a flawed term, it was justified because that's how the media talked about it, but the media doesn't need to keep a consistent terminology, so it simply stopped using it once it became clear fighting in the Donbass will continue past anything that could be considered a single "battle". So ] and ] are both leftover terminology that largely overlap. We wouldn't choose to segment the war this was with our current hindsight.
:The situation is a bit like if Wikipedians during the ] created an article for the new campaign, and then kept adding stuff even after the front became static given "fighting is still taking place in the area". If the Battle of Donbass will continue until fighting stops there, then it started back in 2014. No, the concept meant to refer to a new Russian offensive in the area, it's just that the terminology at the time didn't have the hindsight to know how long this war will drag on fighting in the same places.
:We can have articles that discuss the entire history of war in a specific area. Maybe '''Front''' or '''Theater''' should be used for that.
:We can have articles about the offensive pushes one side makes, but they should have clear beginnings and ends when it runs out of steam. So far, it seems we have alternating periods of Russian and Ukrainian offensives, with the original "Battle of Donbass" being the first Russian offensive that ended once the front stabilized in August 2022.
:Over at the Syrian civil war they made separate pages for every time one faction gained territory, and called it a separate offensive, like '''Aleppo offensive (July–August 2016)'''. The other side starts gaining ground -> New offensive -> New Article
:Imo, we should have Donbass offensive (April-September 2022), Luhansk counteroffensive (September-October 2022), 2022-23 Russian Winter Offensive (Bakhmut, Soledar, Toretsk, Vuhledar October 2022-May 2023), 2023 Ukrainian Counteroffensive (Robotyne, south of Velyka Novosilka, Klishchiivka, 2023 June-Sept), and 2023-24 Russian Winter Offensive (Avdiivka, west of Bakhmut)
:The same issue occurs in a smaller scale in individual city battles, like the drama around if the Battle of Bakhmut ended or not. It was originally coined, like the ], to refer to the fighting after the fall of Severodonetsk, '''east of '''the given city. But then fighting moved into the urban area, and the article became about the fighting to capture the city. That was over by May 2023, but fighting continues around the city with sustained intensity - so where should we write about those. Following the aforementioned example of the Syrian civil war, they would just make "Bakhmut counteroffensive (May - September 2023)", then move onto a different article now that it's Russian gains again. I think we have enough material for separate articles.
:Point is: keep it straight: are we talking about an offensive, or a theater of war? The article name should reflect that. ] (]) 22:04, 14 February 2024 (UTC)


== Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 December 2023 ==
(Proposed after discussion at ])


{{Edit extended-protected|Battle of Donbas (2022)|answered=yes}}
There isn't much of significance in the ] article that can't be effectively covered in ]. It mostly consisted of Russia repeatedly bashing infantrymen against Ukrainian fortifications south of Izium over and over until the ] - which is covered just fine in other articles. Even though it's been over a year since the events, large amount of the material is also just not independently confirmed, leaving even less notable events in the Sloviansk offensive article. It makes most sense to cover the notable stuff in the Donbas battle article, since it was one of the prongs of that offensive. ] (]) 22:40, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
* '''Support''' per nom and per discussion at the talk page of the article proposed to be merged. ] (]) 22:51, 20 September 2023 (UTC) I request the status of the battle of Donbas to be changed from inconclusive to ongoing as fighting is still ongoing in the region and no information states otherwise. ] (]) 16:24, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
:] '''Note:'''<!-- Template:EEp --> since it was ] by {{u|HappyWithWhatYouHaveToBeHappyWith}}, I think it would be best if they could explain why the rationale behind it. ] (]) 15:06, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
⚫ ::There was a whole long discussion about this. See ]. The scope of the article was changed to cover specifically the summer 2022 offensive, not all fighting in the Donbas. ] (]) 15:25, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
:] '''Not done:'''<!-- Template:EEp --> per {{u|HappyWithWhatYouHaveToBeHappyWith}}'s explanation. ] (]) 15:57, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
== "]" listed at ] ==
]
The redirect <span class="plainlinks"></span> has been listed at ] to determine whether its use and function meets the ]. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at '''{{slink|Misplaced Pages:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 May 21#Battles of Bohorodychne and Krasnopillia}}''' until a consensus is reached. <!-- Template:RFDNote --> ] (]) 21:55, 21 May 2024 (UTC)


== Status ==
*'''Support''' per nom and discussion at ] ] (]) 01:12, 21 September 2023 (UTC)


*'''Support''' per nom and discussion at ] ] (]) 09:29, 21 September 2023 (UTC) Status should change from inconclusive to limited Russian victory. ] (]) 11:08, 22 May 2024 (UTC)


:It would be nice if we had sources indicating the "result" of the "battle of Donbas". Everyone was so quick to report that it had begun, but almost never mentioned it by that name again. If you are aware of sources that support your suggestion please provide them. ] (]) 14:26, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
:'''Support''' per nom and discussion at ]. ] (]) 03:18, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' As ISW and others have discussed, the operation was pretty notable/decisive precisely because the Russians failed, both initially and later on. A successful drive and exploitation could have had very serious consequences. Instead, the Russians ended up having to take a more frontal approach, leading to limited and Pyrrhic gains.
:The main Battle of Donbas article has a far larger scope, and any weaknesses in the current article don’t reflect on the topic. In fact, the current revision doesn’t contain a lot of the substantive discussion found in sources, probably because it was only recently moved to its current title.
:I would also suggest that the skirmishing around ] and ] be covered, as well as the Russian mistakes in troop dispositions and force-to-space ratios that set the stage for the Ukrainian counterblow, which is fairly extensively discussed by sources.
:Unfortunately I completely missed out on that previous, closed, discussion which others have linked to.
:] (]) 10:55, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
::We could divide this campaign into many several subcampaigns. If Russia took Siversk it could have also been bad. Also if they took Avdiivka, or Vuhledar. We can't give articles to every subaxes of this campaign, and I am not convinced the fighting north of Sloviansk was particularly more notable than the others. Plus, {{tq|A successful drive and exploitation could have had very serious consequences.}} is speculation. {{tq|Instead, the Russians ended up having to take a more frontal approach, leading to limited and Pyrrhic gains.}} can apply for the whole campaign, or for the whole invasion itself. If this article got into a better shape and became longer, we could discuss a split in the future. But currently both the proposed merged article and the proposed target article do not cover the fighting north of Sloviansk in great detail. In my view having everything neatly packed into one article will make expansion easier, at least in this one case. ] (]) 12:22, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
:::I agree with this argument - the Sloviansk offensive page could hypothetically be its own thing, but the article as of now doesn’t have enough to stand on its own. We could re-split later if needed; not like there's much there in the Sloviansk offensive page now anyway. ] (]) 05:40, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

== Is it really over though? ==

Battles of Donetsk suburbs were merged in, but they had lot of stuff happening AFTER Kharkiv counteroffensive. when you look at some winter offensive battles (like Bakhmut and Vuhledar), it says that they are part of the battle of donbass.

Main offensive probably ended, but they are still fighting for Dobass ] (]) 07:32, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
:This article is about the so-called "second phase" of the war, from the Russian retreat from the north of Ukraine to Ukraine's counteroffensives. Russian advance slowed down after taking Lysychansk and started focusing mainly on the Bakhmut direction. It only started gaining traction after Ukraine's two counteroffensives had ended, accordingly they are defined by some as the "third phase" and the battle for Bakhmut (among others) as the "fourth phase". It makes sense from an organizational and historiographic point of view. Also worth noting that fighting was also taking place in Donbas before the start date here anyway. Perhaps another title could make the article's scope more evident. After the fall of Lysychansk I don't think we could say Russia pulled any offensive aimed at taking the whole of Donbas. ] (]) 12:16, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

== Hastily to supplement ==

What kind of abbreviated piece of crap is this article? What kind of artificial piquancy is this? Who says the battle for Donbas ended in September 2022? Who are you making crazy? What about the ] and the ]? ] and ] are not located in Donbass? This is hard core cretinism that it is unrepeatable to watch, let alone read. I have never seen so many cavities and malicious oversights in my life. There is more neutrality in the current ] than a single battle related to the Russia-Ukraine War. I had to write this or I was going to explode with rage. How rude of you to leave out Soledar and Bahmut battles. This is a crime by moderators and admins. My stomach hurt from nervousness. I no longer have the energy to look up anything related to the ] on the English Misplaced Pages. Trunke has no objectivity and all are ordinary hairstyles of piquantery wrapped in very low-quality wafers. The horror. — ] (]) 21:51, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

:It was either this or deleting the article. As the "hard core cretin" who initiated the scope-changing discussion myself, I put forward the argument that the idea of the "battle of Donbas" in its former form was largely invented by Misplaced Pages editors and not a concept actually well-defined in sources - and that the only actual defined scope for an article with this title would be the summer 2022 offensive, as referred to by a couple of military analysts. ("Summer 2022 Donbas offensive", or something along those lines, might be a better name for this article in the long run, IMO, but I doubt that could get consensus.)
:For events in Donbas after Sep. 2022, see ]. ] (]) 22:58, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
⚫ :Also, this is a massive insane overreaction to a simple transfer of content from one page to another. ] (]) 23:11, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
::Better that this piece of garbage be removed from the article like many of my articles that have been deleted, edited or redirected than to look this disgustingly hollow, illegible and artificially shortened to the point of unbearableness. I literally feel sick. The Sloviansk offensive never existed because the Russian forces could not get closer than 20-30 km to it, but from a bunch of my local articles related to the battles for nearby places, someone simply put everything in one bag and made the Sloviansk offensive article. I understood this as a kind of simplification of the archival material of the fighting after the Russian victory after the Battle of Izhyum, until the heavy defeat in the Kharkov counter-offensive. Essentially, the Russians never or still did not launch an offensive on Sloviansk not because they did not want to but because they could not because they were stopped at the places of Krasnopillia and Bogorodichnoe and at the city of Seversk. The Donbas offensive was officially announced by Sergei Lavrov on April 19 last year that it had officially begun, which happened the day before with the rapid Russian capture of the city of Kreminna. That is all known. The fact that the Russian side slowed down the advance by no means means that the offensive was stopped in July after the battle of Lysichynsk nor after the Ukrainian Kharkov counter-offensive, as evidenced by the Russian offensive operations in the battles for the places of Avdiyivka, Marinka, Soledar, Bakhmut, Bilohorivka and Vuhledar, where the casualties are huge on both sides. This Russian offensive was stopped, but not by the Ukrainian Kharkov counter-offensive in September and October last year, but after the takeover of Bakhmut by members of the Wagner Group and the Ukrainian summer counter-offensive that began on June 4. The result is tied because Russian forces captured the cities of Soledar and Bakhmut this year, but they lost Lyman, Svyatogorsk and Bilohorivka last year, and this year Ukrainian forces recovered many lost settlements around the city of Bakhmut and soon regained some lost positions in the city of Bakhmut itself on its western periphery. The offensive was stopped either on May 20 after the Russian capture of Bakhmut or on June 1 after the retreat of the Wagner group or on June 4 at the beginning of the 2023 Ukrainian counter-offensive. There is no fourth, and it was certainly not stopped before May and June of this year. It is so obvious and the article must be updated until that period or better removed and deleted. It looks so amateurishly hollow that it's unbearable to look at, let alone read. A simple pamphlet. — ] (]) 06:01, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 12:29, 24 November 2024

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Battle of Donbas (2022) article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
Article policies
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL
Archives: Index, 1, 2Auto-archiving period: 30 days 
WARNING: ACTIVE COMMUNITY SANCTIONS

The article Battle of Donbas (2022), along with other pages relating to the Russo-Ukrainian War, is designated by the community as a contentious topic. The current restrictions are:

  • Only extended-confirmed editors may make edits related to the topic area, though editors who are not extended-confirmed may post constructive comments and make edit requests related to articles within the topic area on article talk pages. Should disruption occur on article talk pages, administrators may take enforcement actions against disruptive editors and/or apply page protection on article talk pages. However, non-extended-confirmed editors may not make edits to internal project discussions related to the topic area, even on article talk pages. Internal project discussions include, but are not limited to, Articles for deletion nominations, WikiProjects, requests for comment, requested moves, and noticeboard discussions.

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be sanctioned.

Remedy instructions and exemptions

Enforcement procedures:

  • Violations of any restrictions and other conduct issues should be reported to the administrators' incidents noticeboard.
  • Editors who violate any listed restrictions may be blocked by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offense.
  • An editor must be aware before they can be sanctioned.
The contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to the Balkans or Eastern Europe, which has been designated as a contentious topic.

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.

Discussions:

This article is rated C-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects.
WikiProject iconInternational relations
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject International relations, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of International relations on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.International relationsWikipedia:WikiProject International relationsTemplate:WikiProject International relationsInternational relations
???This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject iconMilitary history: European / Russian & Soviet / Post-Cold War
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history
B checklist
This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
  1. Referencing and citation: criterion not met
  2. Coverage and accuracy: criterion met
  3. Structure: criterion met
  4. Grammar and style: criterion met
  5. Supporting materials: criterion met
Associated task forces:
/ 
Taskforce icon
European military history task force
Taskforce icon
Russian, Soviet and CIS military history task force
Taskforce icon
Post-Cold War task force
WikiProject iconRussia: Military / Politics and law Mid‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Russia, a WikiProject dedicated to coverage of Russia on Misplaced Pages.
To participate: Feel free to edit the article attached to this page, join up at the project page, or contribute to the project discussion.RussiaWikipedia:WikiProject RussiaTemplate:WikiProject RussiaRussia
MidThis article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by the Russian, Soviet, and CIS military history task force.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by the politics and law of Russia task force.
WikiProject iconUkraine High‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Ukraine, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Ukraine on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.UkraineWikipedia:WikiProject UkraineTemplate:WikiProject UkraineUkraine
HighThis article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
This article was edited to contain a total or partial translation of Битва за Донбас (2022) from the Ukrainian Misplaced Pages. Consult the history of the original page to see a list of its authors.
The contents of the Sloviansk offensive page were merged into Battle of Donbas (2022) on 7 April 2024. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page.
The contents of the Battle of Siversk page were merged into Battle of Donbas (2022) on 16 April 2024. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page.
The contents of the Battle of Kreminna page were merged into Battle of Donbas (2022) on 2 May 2024. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page.
The contents of the Battle of Toshkivka page were merged into Battle of Donbas (2022) on 16 June 2024. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page.
The contents of the Battle of Sviatohirsk page were merged into Battle of Donbas (2022) on 21 June 2024. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page.
The contents of the First battle of Lyman page were merged into Battle of Donbas (2022) on 23 June 2024. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page.


Request to have status and title changed

I request to the status changed from inconclusive to ongoing. There's no indication that the battle of Donbas is over. There's still fighting ongoing in settlements and cities in the Donbas such Advika, Marinka, near Bakhmut and surrounding areas. It doesn't make any sense that the battle is considered over while both sides are still launching offensive to capture territory in the region. I also request to change the title to "Battle of Donbas (2022-present)", as the battle is still ongoing. LegendaryChristopher (talk) 06:31, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

I think the issue comes from the fact that we are still using terminology from when the war was still mobile. The choice to separate the war to "campaigns", like Eastern Ukraine campaign made sense because at the time it was mostly about Russians rapidly advancing without a solid frontline (and many probably thought it will be over soon). Now however it's the opposite, static fighting that far surpasses the scope of a single campaign taking place in the same area, so any "Battle of ____" article bloats out of proportion, because years on, fighting still takes place there, so we still file it under the same article.
The battle of Donbass was always a flawed term, it was justified because that's how the media talked about it, but the media doesn't need to keep a consistent terminology, so it simply stopped using it once it became clear fighting in the Donbass will continue past anything that could be considered a single "battle". So Eastern Ukraine campaign and Battle of Donbass are both leftover terminology that largely overlap. We wouldn't choose to segment the war this was with our current hindsight.
The situation is a bit like if Wikipedians during the Race to the Sea created an article for the new campaign, and then kept adding stuff even after the front became static given "fighting is still taking place in the area". If the Battle of Donbass will continue until fighting stops there, then it started back in 2014. No, the concept meant to refer to a new Russian offensive in the area, it's just that the terminology at the time didn't have the hindsight to know how long this war will drag on fighting in the same places.
We can have articles that discuss the entire history of war in a specific area. Maybe Front or Theater should be used for that.
We can have articles about the offensive pushes one side makes, but they should have clear beginnings and ends when it runs out of steam. So far, it seems we have alternating periods of Russian and Ukrainian offensives, with the original "Battle of Donbass" being the first Russian offensive that ended once the front stabilized in August 2022.
Over at the Syrian civil war they made separate pages for every time one faction gained territory, and called it a separate offensive, like Aleppo offensive (July–August 2016). The other side starts gaining ground -> New offensive -> New Article
Imo, we should have Donbass offensive (April-September 2022), Luhansk counteroffensive (September-October 2022), 2022-23 Russian Winter Offensive (Bakhmut, Soledar, Toretsk, Vuhledar October 2022-May 2023), 2023 Ukrainian Counteroffensive (Robotyne, south of Velyka Novosilka, Klishchiivka, 2023 June-Sept), and 2023-24 Russian Winter Offensive (Avdiivka, west of Bakhmut)
The same issue occurs in a smaller scale in individual city battles, like the drama around if the Battle of Bakhmut ended or not. It was originally coined, like the Battle of Siversk, to refer to the fighting after the fall of Severodonetsk, east of the given city. But then fighting moved into the urban area, and the article became about the fighting to capture the city. That was over by May 2023, but fighting continues around the city with sustained intensity - so where should we write about those. Following the aforementioned example of the Syrian civil war, they would just make "Bakhmut counteroffensive (May - September 2023)", then move onto a different article now that it's Russian gains again. I think we have enough material for separate articles.
Point is: keep it straight: are we talking about an offensive, or a theater of war? The article name should reflect that. Vauia Rex (talk) 22:04, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 December 2023

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

I request the status of the battle of Donbas to be changed from inconclusive to ongoing as fighting is still ongoing in the region and no information states otherwise. LegendaryChristopher (talk) 16:24, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

 Note: since it was changed by HappyWithWhatYouHaveToBeHappyWith, I think it would be best if they could explain why the rationale behind it. M.Bitton (talk) 15:06, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
There was a whole long discussion about this. See Talk:Battle of Donbas (2022)/Archive 2. The scope of the article was changed to cover specifically the summer 2022 offensive, not all fighting in the Donbas. HappyWith (talk) 15:25, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 Not done: per HappyWithWhatYouHaveToBeHappyWith's explanation. M.Bitton (talk) 15:57, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

"Battles of Bohorodychne and Krasnopillia" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Battles of Bohorodychne and Krasnopillia has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Misplaced Pages:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 May 21 § Battles of Bohorodychne and Krasnopillia until a consensus is reached. SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 21:55, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Status

Status should change from inconclusive to limited Russian victory. 46.187.174.16 (talk) 11:08, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

It would be nice if we had sources indicating the "result" of the "battle of Donbas". Everyone was so quick to report that it had begun, but almost never mentioned it by that name again. If you are aware of sources that support your suggestion please provide them. SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 14:26, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
Categories: