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			{{Not around|is not currently active on Misplaced Pages|date=14 September 2023}}
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	{{archive box|] for Sept-Dec 2006<br>] for Jan-Apr 2007<br>] for May-Aug 2007<br>] for Sept-Dec 2007<br>] for Jan-Feb 2008<br>] for Mar-Apr 2008<br>] for May-July 2008<br>] for Aug-Nov 2008<br>] for Nov 2008-Jan 2009<br>] for Feb-Apr 2009<br>] for May-Jul 2009<br>] for Aug 2009-Sept 2009<br>] for October 2009-January 17, 2010<br>] for January 18, 2010 - April 7, 2010<br>] for April 8, 2010-June 19, 2010<br>] for June 20, 2010-Sept 30, 2010<br>] for Oct 1, 2010-Dec 26, 2010<br>] for Dec 27, 2010-Mar 31, 2011<br>] for April 1, 2011-July 6 2011<br>] for July 7, 2011-October 9 2011<br>] for October 9-December 31, 2011<br>] for Jan 1 - May 31 2012}}		{{archive box|collapsed = yes|] for Sept-Dec 2006<br>] for Jan-Apr 2007<br>] for May-Aug 2007<br>] for Sept-Dec 2007<br>] for Jan-Feb 2008<br>] for Mar-Apr 2008<br>] for May-July 2008<br>] for Aug-Nov 2008<br>] for Nov 2008-Jan 2009<br>] for Feb-Apr 2009<br>] for May-Jul 2009<br>] for Aug 2009-Sept 2009<br>] for October 2009-January 17, 2010<br>] for January 18, 2010 - April 7, 2010<br>] for April 8, 2010-June 19, 2010<br>] for June 20, 2010-Sept 30, 2010<br>] for Oct 1, 2010-Dec 26, 2010<br>] for Dec 27, 2010-Mar 31, 2011<br>] for April 1, 2011-July 6 2011<br>] for July 7, 2011-October 9 2011<br>] for October 9-December 31, 2011<br>] for Jan 1 - May 31 2012<br>] for June 1 - Sept 30 2012<br>] for Oct 1 - Dec 31 2012<br> ] for Jan 1 2013 - May 31 2013<br> ] for June 1 2013 - May 31 2014<br>] for Jun 1-Dec 7 2014<br>] for Dec 2014-Aug 2015<br>] for Sept 2015-Jan 2016<br>] for Feb 2016-April 2017<br>] for May-Oct 2017<br>] for Nov 2017-Apr 2018<br>] for May 2018-Dec 2018<br>] for Jan 2019 - Oct 2019<br>] for Oct 2019-Feb 2020<br>] for Feb 2020-May 2021<br>] for June 2021-Dec 2021<br>] for Jan 2022-June 2022<br>] for Jul 2022-Dec 2022}}
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	== Need uninvolved admin ==		== Happy New Year, Jayron32! ==
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			'''Jayron32''',<br />Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable ], and thanks for your contributions to Misplaced Pages.
			<br /><span style="color: blue">—</span> ] <sup><span style="font-size:80%">⋠]⋡</span></sup> 04:52, 2 January 2023 (UTC)<br /><br />
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			&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;''{{resize|88%|Send New Year cheer by adding {{tls|Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.}}''
			{{clear}}<!-- From template:Happy New Year fireworks --> <span style="color: blue">—</span> ] <sup><span style="font-size:80%">⋠]⋡</span></sup> 04:52, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
			== Thank you ==
	..to patrol ] which is a no-brainer as checkuser has confirmed sock of banned user. Those who know about this case are involved. The sock remains unblocked. Cheers,<br/><span style="text-shadow:#294 0.1em 0.1em 0.3em; class=texhtml">]</span> 18:09, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
	:{{done}}. Bagged and tagged. Feel free to close the case. --]''''']''''' 18:13, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
	:::Thank you...I had been waiting quite a while to see if any random patrollers happened by. :)<br/><span style="text-shadow:#294 0.1em 0.1em 0.3em; class=texhtml">]</span> 18:23, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
			Hi @], I wanted to thank you for defending my position in the disagreement I've been having with Fram. I felt strongly supported, and even though I know you weren't standing up for me as an editor but rather for the actions I performed, the result was the same. I could definitely have conducted myself better in the way I communicated with Fram, and I will do my best to be less reactive when my buttons are pushed. I also accept the point about my seeming alacrity to "bite" new editors (though it isn't my intention to do so) and will strive to be more patient in that area. ] (]) 03:16, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
	==The Celtic question==
			:Thanks. I do want to make clear I wasn't particularly supporting your position in the debate ''per se''. I'm not entirely sure ''who is right'' and ''who is wrong'', but that's a content matter to be resolved via the normal ] processes. My only concern is that Fram's position that you were vandalizing was beyond the pale, and they needed to walk that back. --]] 04:52, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
	Hi there, Jayron.
			== Administrators' newsletter – January 2023 ==
	I was quite surprised at the spleen with which you seem to have invested your answer to the question about the pronunciation of Celtics.
	On the one hand you give those who use the hard C the choice between being idiots or pretentious pricks, which is not great. But on the other hand, you say that neither /keltic/ nor /seltic/ is wrong. Those two statements just don't sit well together.
			] from the past month (December 2022).
	If it's not wrong to say /keltic/ - whether that be at a Boston Celtics game or anywhere else - then it seems to me that if anyone got upset about it, ''they'd'' be the ones more deserving of those names you used, not the speaker of the word.
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	Or are you saying that neither pronunciation is wrong ''per se'', but one must pick and choose where to use them appropriately? I could certainly support ''that'' statement. For example, I'm a proud /kelt/ and I don't like being called a /selt/, but if I went to a Celtics game, I'd certainly be saying /seltics/ because when in Rome ...
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			] '''Administrator changes'''
	By the way, a word to the wise. If you're going to be referring to others as idiots, writing "'''that's your'''" when you really mean "'''that you're'''" sort of invites people who have not come across you before to wonder just who the real idiot is - and we can't have that.
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	Cheers. -- ♬ ] ♬ </sup></font>]] 06:29, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
			:] ]
	:Yes, you are correct. --]''''']''''' 11:54, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
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	== LOL ==
			] '''CheckUser changes'''
	edit summary genuinely made me laugh out loud :-) -- ] (]) 19:19, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
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	==You've got mail!==
	{{you've got mail|subject=|ts=22:51, 8 June 2012 (UTC)}}
	] (]) 22:51, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
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	== Thank you! ==
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	|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 15px; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | I, Sarah, hereby award you, Jayron, the '''Teahouse Barnstar''' for your valued participation in the ] pilot. Your reputation for assisting new editors precedes you, and I like to think the Teahouse has provided an additional outlet for your savvy skills at supporting others. I look forward to your continued participation at the Teahouse and thanks for all you do to make Misplaced Pages the invaluable resource it is! ] (]) 00:32, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
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	:Well thank you!
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	==''The Tea Leaf'' - Issue Four==
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			] '''Guideline and policy news'''
	Hi! Welcome to the fourth issue of ''The Tea Leaf'', the official newsletter for the ]!
			*] ] (transwikied articles) has been repealed following an ].
			] '''Arbitration'''
	*'''Teahouse pilot wraps up after 13 weeks''' After being piloted on English Misplaced Pages starting in February, the Teahouse wrapped up its pilot period on May 27, 2012. We expect this is just the beginning for the Teahouse and hope the project will continue to grow in the months to come!
			* Following the ], the following editors have been appointed to the Arbitration Committee: {{Noping|Barkeep49}}, {{Noping|CaptainEek}}, {{Noping|GeneralNotability}}, {{Noping|Guerillero}}, {{Noping|L235}}, {{Noping|Moneytrees}}, {{Noping|Primefac}}, {{Noping|SilkTork}}.
			* The ] has ] with many changes to the ] procedure including a change of the name to "contentious topics". The changes are being implemented over the coming month.
			* The arbitration case '']'' has been closed.
			] '''Miscellaneous'''
	<span style="font-size: 1.5em">Thank you and congratulations to all of the community members who participated - and continue to participate!</span>
			* Voting for the ] has closed and the winner is expected to be announced February to April 2023.
			* '''Tech tip''': You can view information about IP addresses in a centralised location using which won the Newcomer award in the recent ].
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			<!-- Message sent by User:Dreamy Jazz@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Administrators%27_newsletter/Subscribe&oldid=1131844294 -->
			==Happy Fifteenth Adminship Anniversary!==
			<!-- ##RW UNDERDATE## -->
			<div style="display: flex; align-items: center; padding: 1em; border: solid 3px #2B547E; background-color: #E6E6FA;">] <div>Wishing ''']''' a very on behalf of the ''']'''! <span class="nowrap" style="font-family:copperplate gothic light;">] (])</span> 20:18, 11 January 2023 (UTC)</div></div>
			:Holy fuck. 15 years. Damn it. This feels less like a congratulation and more like a condemnation.... --]] 20:22, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
			== Hello ==
	*'''What you've all been waiting for: ] is released!''' We look forward to your feedback on the methodology and outcomes of this pilot project.
	*'''....and if a pilot report wasn't enough, the ] is out too!''' Dive into the numbers and survey results to learn about the impact the Teahouse has made on English Misplaced Pages.
	*'''Teahouse shows positive impact on new editor retention and engagement'''
	]
	:*409 new editors participated during the entire pilot period, with about 40 new editors participating in the Teahouse per week.
	:*Two weeks after participating, 33% of Teahouse guests are still active on Misplaced Pages, as opposed to 11% of a similar control group.
	:*New editors who participated in the Teahouse edit 10x the number of articles, make 7x more global edits, and 2x as much of their content survives on Misplaced Pages compared to the control group.
	*'''Women participate in the Teahouse''' 28% of Teahouse participants were women, up from 9% of editors on Misplaced Pages in general, good news for this project which aimed to have impact on the gender gap too - but still lots to be done here!
	*'''New opportunities await for the Teahouse in phase two''' as the Teahouse team and Misplaced Pages community examine ways to improve, scale, and sustain the project. Opportunities for future work include:
	:*Automating or semi-automating systems such as invites, metrics and archiving
	:*Experimenting with more ways for new editors to discover the Teahouse
	:*Building out the social and peer-to-peer aspects further, including exploring ways to make answering questions easier, creating more ways for new editors to help each other and for all participants to acknowledge each other's efforts
	:*Growing volunteer capacity, continuing to transfer Teahouse administration tasks to volunteers whenever possible, and looking for new ways to make maintenance and participation easier for everyone.
	*'''Want to know how you can lend a hand at the Teahouse? Become a host!''' Learn more about what makes the Teahouse different than other help spaces on Misplaced Pages and see how you can help new editors by visiting ].
	*'''Say hello to the new guests at the Teahouse.''' Take the time to welcome and get to know the latest ] at the Teahouse. Drop off some wikilove to these editors today, as being welcomed by experienced editors is really encouraging to new Wikipedians.
	<small>You are receiving ''The Tea Leaf'' after expressing interest or participating in the Teahouse! To remove yourself from receiving future newsletters, please remove your username ]. ] (]) 16:43, 13 June 2012 (UTC)</small>
			First, thank you for your kindness. I felt extremely humbled being ] by a respected and experienced editor of the encyclopedia. I have a small request, if you could spare the time. Can you go through my contributions, to the article namespace and the project namespace, and give me a general review of my editing, as well as some advice about what I can do to improve my contributions?
	== Teahouse Talkback ==
			Thanks in advance.
	I was just wondering if you were aware of the Teahouse Talkback Script that allows you to leave a talkback notice without having to first navigate away from the teahouse page?&nbsp;]&nbsp;]&nbsp;] 15:51, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
	:For clarification, I left this because I realized we both used different section headings on a talkback so it appeared that yours was done manually.&nbsp;]&nbsp;]&nbsp;] 15:52, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
	::What is this black magic of which you speak? Young whippersnapper, bringing your new-fangled "script" into the world. Bah. <small>For the record, I'm sure such a thing exists. I've been at Misplaced Pages for over 6 years, and every single edit has been a manual one. Ever see an 80 year old try to make a phone call on an i-phone for the first time? Yeah, that's me.</small> --]''''']''''' 16:08, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
	:::I've got to say, that's pretty impressive.&nbsp;]&nbsp;]&nbsp;] 16:21, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
	::::It hasn't caused me any problems. I get by. --]''''']''''' 16:22, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
			''']''' '''<sup>]</sup>'''<span style="color:blue">/</span>'''<sub>]</sub>''' 12:45, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
	== Doc Jazz article ==
			:I'm seeing lots of good work. Your recently created article on the Territory of the Comoros looks really good, and your contributions to the Misplaced Pages space looks civil, thoughtful, and well presented. Keep up the good work! If you've got any more specific questions, please let me know! --]] 12:59, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
			== Nomination of ] for deletion ==
			<div class="afd-notice">
			<div class="floatleft" style="margin-bottom:0">]</div>A discussion is taking place as to whether the article ''']''' is suitable for inclusion in Misplaced Pages according to ] or whether it should be ].
			The article will be discussed at ] until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
	Hello Jayron32,
			Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished.
	I want to write a new article about the musician Doc Jazz and got this message:
			<!-- Template:Afd notice --></div> ---<span style="font-family: Calibri">]<small> (]&#124;]) </small></span> 16:34, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
			== FYI... ==
	"A page with this title has previously been deleted. If you are creating a new page with different content, please continue. If you are recreating a page similar to the previously deleted page, or are unsure, please first contact the deleting administrator using the information provided below. 03:07, 11 September 2010 Jayron32 (talk | contribs) deleted page Doc Jazz (A7: No explanation of the subject's significance (real person, animal, organization, or web content): I checked the author's claims of article on Dutch Misplaced Pages. It is nearly identical to this one, and thus adds nothing to claims of signif)"
			Regarding this, it seems like the editor is being deliberately obtuse. I posted him at AIV for ref desk trolling, but the admin rejected it. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 17:46, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
	The version I'm writing is not the same as the Dutch one at all. I would like to upload the article can you tell me if there were any other matters that were subject to your decision to delete the article besides the content being the same as the Dutch version? Thank you in advance.
			:Actually, I don't agree with that. There's some ] stuff going on here, likely some problems with English as a Second Language, but I don't see anything that leads me to believe they are acting in bad faith. Not every trainwreck is deliberate... --]] 18:11, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
			::Rogereeny. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 21:06, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
			== Mail ==
	Best regards,
			{{You've got mail}} ] (]) 05:11, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
	Justice1st <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 12:58, 16 June 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
			:{{ping|Therapyisgood}} The best way to handle this is to file a report at ]. --]] 09:49, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
			== Administrators' newsletter – February 2023 ==
			] from the past month (January 2023).
	Hi Jayron32. Thank you for your suggestion on how to write the article. I took your advice and wrote the article using the userspace draft. I could use some help though. The layout looks different in the preview then it does in the space where I wrote the article. The spaces between the paragraphs are too narrow and the references are all in one line in stead of each numbered reference starting a new line. Could you please help me? And also if you have any other feedback I would love to hear it. Thank you! <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 16:34, 18 June 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
			{{Col-begin}}
	Hi Jayron32. If you have time could you please check the message above this one and let me know if you can help me out with the article I wrote? Thank you! <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 15:31, 19 July 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
			{{Col-2}}
			] '''Administrator changes'''
	Hi Jayron32, thank you for your excellent feedback. I have submitted the article. I also wanted to let you know that all the links I refer to in my article are by mainstream media. Now all I have to do is wait for the editor to improve my article. I want to thank you for your help. I really appreciate it. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 18:32, 20 July 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
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	== Another ... sigh ... question from a beginner ==
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	Hi, you answered my question yesterday (in the teahouse) about making my sandbox practice into a real article (why does this sound like the Velveteen Rabbit?) by moving it. BUT the move it page information makes me think I might lose my sandbox, or that my sandbox will somehow become part of the article... Moreover, among all the reasons for moving a page, my reason doesn't seem to be on the list. So before I do something dumb, can you help me?
	] (]) 13:57, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
			] '''CheckUser changes'''
	== Educating PR folks ==
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	Hi Jay. I saw that you attended a Raleigh meetup and wondered if you were interested in participating in the to educate PR professionals on COI issues. is me and more on me ]. You can see some of my COI works ], ] and ]. They invited me to speak on a session on Misplaced Pages ethics for marketing professionals in a sort of panel discussion of sorts and it would be great to get a local Wikipedian there. Are you local to the triangle and potentially interested in participating? ] 01:47, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
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	==WikiCup 2012 June newsletter==
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	''Apologies for the lateness of this letter; our usual bot wasn't working.'' We are now entering round 4, our semi-finals, and have our final 16. A score of 243 was required to reach this round; significantly more than 2011's 76 points, and only a little behind 2010's 250 points. By comparison, last year, 150 points in round 4 secured a place in the final; in 2010, 430 were needed. Commiserations to Pool A's {{Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Participant3|Igordebraga}}, who scored 242 points, missing out on a place in the round by a whisker. However, congratulations to Pool B's {{Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Participant3|Grapple X}}, whose television articles have brought him another round victory. Pool A's {{Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Participant3|Cwmhiraeth}} came second overall, with an impressive list of biological did you knows, good articles and featured articles. Third overall was Pool D's {{Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Participant3|Muboshgu}}, with a long list of contibutions, mostly relating to baseball. Of course, with the points resetting every round, the playing field has been levelled. The most successful Pool was Pool D, which saw seven into the final round. Pool B saw four, C saw three and Pool A saw only the two round leaders.
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			{{Col-end}}
	A quick note about other competitions taking place on Misplaced Pages which may be of interest. There are 13 days remaining in the ], but it is not too late to take part. August will also see the return of ]- a one month long competition first run in 2007. While the WikiCup awards points for audited content on any subject, The Core Contest about is raw article improvement, focussing heavily on the most important articles on Misplaced Pages. As ever, if you are concerned that your nomination—whether it is at good article candidates, a featured process, or anywhere else—will not receive the necessary reviews, please list it on ]. Questions are welcome on ], and the judges are reachable on their talk pages or by email. Good luck! <small>If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from ].</small> ] (] • ]) and ] (] • ]) 10:58, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
			] '''Guideline and policy news'''
	== Hello. ==
			*Following ], the ] now requires that prior written consent be gained from the ] to mark a block as only appealable to the committee.
			*Following ], consensus has been found to impose the ] over the topic areas of ] and ].
			] '''Technical news'''
			* The Vector 2022 skin has become the default for desktop users of the English Misplaced Pages.
			] '''Arbitration'''
	For legal reasons, can I get my accounts renamed or deleted?
			*The arbitration case '']'' has been opened and the proposed decision is expected 24 February 2023.
			*In December, the ] was adopted which replaces the ]. The contentious topics procedure is now in effect following an initial ]. There is ] of the changes and ] for the new procedure. The arbitration clerk team are taking suggestions, concerns, and unresolved questions about this new system at ].
			] '''Miscellaneous'''
			*Voting in the ] will begin on 05 February 2023, 21:00 (UTC) and end on 26 February 2023, 21:00 (UTC). The ] of current stewards is being held in parallel. You can automatically to vote.
			* Voting in the ] will begin on 10 February 2023 and end on 24 February 2023. You can submit, discuss and revise proposals until 6 February 2023.
			*'''Tech tip''': ] is available in both the 2011 and 2017 Wikitext editors. It can help make editing paragraphs with many references or complicated templates easier.
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	If not, I'll have to get legal aid to remove or rename them per right to vanish policy.
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			<!-- Message sent by User:Dreamy Jazz@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Administrators%27_newsletter/Subscribe&oldid=1136849481 -->
			== Thanks for help with Cochise County ==
	]
			Unfortunately, the editor in question enjoys "making things up" (I'm being far too polite there). His/her claim "According to www.cochise.az.gov no films and television films shot in Cochise county" is false, as also a previous claim "Imdb states that no film or tv series were filmed in Cochise county". With regard to the latter, IMDB lists 10 locations for the ''The Sheriff of Cochise'' TV series, all of which are in Cochise County. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0159207/locations
	] (]) 15:19, 23 June 2012 (UTC) <small>Moved from your user page - Dank (]) 16:17, 4 July 2012 (UTC)</small>
	:Not my problem. If you want to vanish, just stop coming by Misplaced Pages. --]''''']''''' 02:36, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
			I understand that IMDB has been declared an unreliable source; be that as it may, the point is the editor's false representations. (And other sources confirm the location, such as https://www.myheraldreview.com/news/cochise_county/when-the-sheriff-of-cochise-ruled-the-land-and-tv/article_f3487fe8-35e1-11ed-adca-d3bb48315c05.html .)
	==Courtesy Notice==
	I have quoted you and mentioned your name at this . Peace.--<span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS,sans -serif"> — ] • ] • </span> 13:44, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
	:Not sure I have much to added. Your quote sums up my opinion on the matter already; not much has changed in a year. Given the length of the thread, anything I add there would be like pissing in the ocean at this point, but thanks for the heads up. --]''''']''''' 17:07, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
			The editor was left "If you continue to disrupt Misplaced Pages..." messages on the talk page User talk:Daniu99 in late November '22 regarding similar behavior, all apparently to little or no avail then, and nothing seems to have come of the warnings. The disruptions have now started again, repeatedly, in the Cochise County article. As an administrator, could you please help to cool this person's jets? His/her dishonest disruptions serve only to waste the time of more responsible editors. TIA for any help. ] (]) 18:40, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
	==Quick protect==
			:The editor in question has not, since I made the fix, done any further editing to the Cochise County article. If they continue to be disruptive, ] may be the place to go. I don't generally respond to personal requests to use my administrator tools on my user talk page, I prefer to keep such requests in a public forum like ANI where they can be scrutinized. --]] 18:47, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
	Could you do a quick semi-protect on ]?--] (]) 02:51, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
			:: I've tweaked the text to "filmed on location in Cochise County". If s/he continues disrupting for no justified reason, I'll go the ANI route. As you see on the editor's contribs page, the issue is by no means just this instance. ] (]) 19:52, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
	:I looked it over. It's kinda borderline, I saw some good activity in the past few days mixed in with the nonsense, but I've given it a short semiprotection to keep the recent batch of crazies at bay. I hope this works for you. --]''''']''''' 02:54, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
	Thank you. I listed it for PP and also left a note at ANI about admin being bold and just slapping a protection on in such cases. I have seen them revert without protecting.--] (]) 03:32, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
	{{done}}
			== Recusal? ==
	== ==
			{{hat}}
			On the 1st you wrote "Perhaps I would have had more to say about the matter had it just come here first, but given the prior inappropriate attempt to cherry pick me as an admin to respond, I am recusing myself from any further involvement." but the editing history which follows is curious because instead of recusing yourself you become extremely involved... We have on the 2nd, on the 8th, and on the 9th. Seems like you need to do some striking, either of the recusal or of all of the comments violating that recusal. I hope you appreciate me bringing this to you privately instead of making it a big deal at ANI. ] (]) 16:38, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
			:I don't believe I had any further comments on BeanieFan11's behavior, or on sanctioning him, I don't believe. They are all about issues related to AFD and the NSPORTS policy discussion. As far as I am aware, I made no further comments on sanctioning BeanieFan11 as I said wouldn't. I have a standing policy not to use my admin tools when anyone requests me directly to do so here on my talk page, and I have not done so. If you have evidence that I have used my admin tools inappropriately, then by all means, provide diffs for that. The diffs above show me commenting on a policy discussion. --]] 16:43, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
			:: Are you under the impression that recusing yourself from a discussion means not using your admin tools? Thats not recusal, that's expected of all involved admins automatically. Your statement makes it very clear that what you're recusing yourself from is further involvement and the discussion. If you're not going to do that then strike the false recusal. You do also explicitly comment on sanctions. ] (]) 16:48, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
			:::{{ec}}x2 Actually, I do see that there was one further comment I made on BeanieFan11's behavior. I have struck that comment. Thank you for pointing that out. My other comments were not related to the matter I recused myself from, however, and I stand by them. They were clearly about a different matter. --]] 16:50, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
			:::: You didn't recuse yourself from further comment on BeanieFan11's behavior, you recused yourself from "any further involvement" which literally all of the diffs fall under. ] (]) 16:52, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
			:::::{{ec}} Also, I was never "involved". At the point where Therapyisgood contacted me above, I had never met either him, nor BeanieFan11, to my knowledge, nor had I ever to my knowledge, been involved in any of the AFD discussions mentioned. (Post EC comment) I think I have explained my understanding of my statements, if you understand them differently than I intended, there's not much I can do about that. If you feel that I am abusing my admin authority, and need to have the tools taken away for that, please start that discussion in the appropriate venue. --]] 16:57, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
			:::::: You said you were involved, you said "further involvement" which means you were already involved. If you weren't that's ok, but then you told a fib. I don't want your tools taken away, I just want you to be honest. ] (]) 16:58, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
			:::::::Look, let me lay out the timeline of events for you. 1) On 05:11, 31 January 2023 (see above) Therapyisgood sent me an email. Without getting into the details, it asked me to intervene on the matter at hand. I had never, at any point, been involved in the AFD discussions, with BeanieFan11, or with Therapyisgood, in any manner at all. Never met them, never saw the AFDs, never been involved in the Wikiproject, none of it. Out of the blue, he sent me an email. I told him to go to ANI instead, because I don't respond to private requests to use my admin tools. The thread was started at ANI. 2) At 16:06, 1 February 2023 (UTC) Bagumba asked at that thread "Was there any attempt to deal with this one-on-one before escalating to a noticeboard?" where I replied explaining that I had directed Therapyisgood to start the thread, and that I had not intended on commenting on the matter further. 3) Someone started a different discussion on a policy matter I thought was interesting and I commented on that thread at 16:36, 2 February 2023 (UTC). I had not, at this point, been involved in any dispute over the policy matter at hand, and I didn't (and don't) consider my backing away from the sanctioning discussion over BeanieFan11's behavior to have prevented me from commenting on a policy discussion. I did not fib, I did not lie. It is true that on Feb 8, I did make a comment on BeanieFan11's behavior, which I have now struck, as you requested. I'm not going to strike comments that had nothing to do with my original statement. If that bothers you, seek relief elsewhere. --]] 17:11, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
			:::::::: None of that explains why you wrote "further involvement" if in fact that wasn't true and you hadn't been involved. How can it be true that you were already involved and also not involved at all? One of these statements has to be a fib, either Jayron32 who said they were involved is fibbing or Jayron32 who said they weren't involved is fibbing. ] (]) 17:51, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
			:::::::::On the off chance that this is a misunderstanding due to an imperfection in the English language, and I can somehow make a small incremental contribution to peace on Earth: "Involve" has more than one meaning in English, and WP's interpretation adds even one more meaning to those in the dictionary. When Jayron says "further involvement", it's pretty obvious to me that he means "further participation", not "further ]ment". Jayron never said he was ] in the WP sense of the word (and, looking things over, I would agree he is not WP:INVOLVED in any way). Speaking of meanings of words, "fib" can only ever mean an ''intentional'' lie, albeit about something minor. I'd stop using it 3-4 times in a sentence. I'ds stop using it at all. ] (]) 18:07, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
			:::::::::: I also interpreted it to mean "further participation" but I was told that wasn't the case by Jayron32. Nor does it appear accurate as they participated a *ton* after that (hence my challenging their participation and them countering by only striking a single edit which pertained to sanctions and not their participation). ] (]) 18:10, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
			:::::::::::OK, short for "further participation ''in decisions about BeanieFan11''", then. Anyway, I guess I didn't help, so I'll bow out before I contribute to making this molehill into any more of a mountain. ] (]) 18:19, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
			::::::::::::{{ec}} Isn't the "further" still a problem because the claim is that there was no participation in decisions about BeanieFan11 prior to that? Anyways I'm dropping the stick, I hope that Jayron32 will understand that going forward that their statement was most obviously interpreted as a pledge to recuse themselves from "further involvement" and not as whatever incredibly nuanced thing they apparently meant by it. ] (]) 18:29, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
			:::::::::::{{ec}} As I noted, my meaning was further participation in the sanctioning discussion. The discussion over policy was unrelated, in my mind, to the initial discussion. Also, since you really seem hung up on "further", I meant "subsequent to this comment" not "I've been dealing with this previously". Also also, have we beaten this dead horse enough? Either you think I'm a lying liar who lies, or we're having an inconsequential misunderstanding over a difference regarding some minor word choices. If it's the former, fine, whatever, I'm not going to convince you I'm not. You believe whatever you want to believe, I can't convince you out of something like that. Continue to believe it if you want. If it's the latter, I'm pretty sure I've adequately explained what I had meant at this point; further elaboration is unlikely to put any more light on my initial intent. Either way, can we let this matter go, at least in terms of my user talk page. If you need any more action done on this matter, take it to ANI or ArbCom or something like that. I have no intention of doing anything further discussion here. Please let it drop or escalate it elsewhere. --]] 18:25, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
	What's repoly.? ] (]) 00:37, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
			:::::::::::: I don't think you're going to find widespread support for the idea that a subtopic is unrelated to its topic. Keep that in mind going forward. ] (]) 18:29, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
	:It is how the word "reply" is spelled when you have fat fingers and press the "o" button inadvertantly when you were aiming for the "p" button. See ] for more details. --]''''']''''' 00:41, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
			:::::::::::::{{tq|I have no intention of doing anything further discussion here. Please let it drop or escalate it elsewhere.}} --]] 18:30, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
	* Man, I was just joking.You don't have to reply to jokes.:-) ] (]) 00:44, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
			:::::::::::::: That was my final reply, hence its finality. Congrats, you've forced me to post on your talk page again? Have a nice evening. ] (]) 18:32, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
	** You know what is even more fun then telling jokes? Feigning ignorance that it was a joke, and watching the response of people who think you didn't think it was a joke. You know what is even more fun than that? Telling people you did that and then having them think you're bullshitting them. I have ways of fucking with people that no one else has invented yet. Booyeah. --]''''']''''' 00:51, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
			{{hab}}
			== Unsigned comment ==
	== ] ==
			Hello Jayron32, could you please sign on ]? Thanks! ] (]) 15:57, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
	Hey, what's the meaning of this idiom more than you can shake a stick at?] (]) 00:59, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
	:It is a common idiom meaning "More than you can possibly use". See ]. Given the topic of the question, I chose that idiom because of the clear double entendre. That is, when you say "It's more than you can shake a stick at," I was letting the OP know that he'd find more porn than he could ever need. And I was also indicating that I expected there would be some actual shaking of his own stick (stick meaning penis, shaking his stick being a crude way to imply he'd be masturbating), given the usual use for internet porn. Capice? --]''''']''''' 01:09, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
	:: Yeah, I understood.I thought that you used this idiom in dirty way.but, hey, "stick meaning penis, shaking his stick being a crude way to imply he'd be masturbating" such adult things can be talked on Misplaced Pages with a minor like me? ] (]) 01:14, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
	::: I have no idea how old you are. You can lie about any age you'd like to be. That's what the internet is for, n'est ce pas? --]''''']''''' 01:16, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
	== interesting edit ==		== Ref. Desk ==
			Why do you put yourself through elaborate self-humiliation rituals when you give a wrong answer on one of the Reference desks?? It really does not gratify my feelings in any way when you do this in response to a mere factual error (it might if it was in response to something personally involving me, but the only such incident was the Chinese cuisine authenticity thread, and you did not abase yourself in that case, as far as I remember). If the elaborateness of the grovelling is disproportionate to the severity of the error, it may give rise to suspicions of insincerity, in which case you're undermining your own apology... ] (]) 17:28, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
	You may find it interesting that the recent gibberish on the miscellaneous ref desk has appeared under the name of a brand new editor who saw fit to erase his own autosignature here: . I smell a duck. ] (]) 03:55, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
	:I think you're a little bit jumpy. I'm not going to say you're wrong, but saying that doesn't mean that I am not saying you are correct either. If you are correct, he'll show his ass soon enough. Let's just hold judgement until we get more evidence. --]''''']''''' 03:59, 19 July 2012 (UTC)		:Look, I'm sorry I gave the wrong information. I really am. I was mistaken, I struck through my incorrect information, and I apologized for being wrong. What further action do you require me to take? --]] 17:33, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
			::I was not alleging any inadequacy of apology, but exactly the reverse. In many cases a mere acknowledgement of error would be enough, so I really don't see the need or the purpose of grovelling self-abasement. I would be perfectly happy for you to leave the excess drama out when I was the one who pointed out the error... ] (]) 17:58, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
			:::Look, all I can say is that most people realize I'm an asshole within seconds of meeting me; I'm honestly shocked when it takes someone as long as you have to come to that conclusion. --]] 18:24, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
			::::I only know you via your work on WP, but I find you to be an extremely helpful and knowledgeable person who's been more than patient with my own dumbnitude. I don't think there's a single regular respondent on the desks who hasn't been caught making a mistake from time to time. My impression is that most people just issue a mea culpa (if that) and move on. Before I got used to them, I thought your apologies were facetious or sarcastic because of their extreme tone. My concern now is more along the lines of your well-being; it's distressing to think how badly you must beat yourself up over real-life blunders. Please treat yourself with care; you deserve it. ] (]) 18:40, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
			== Comments on the Richard Belzer ITN nom ==
	== References ==
			To make my intent clear to you, I'm only describing your comments as unproductive because Andrew has spent literally years ignoring countless almost identical comments and not only should know better, but does know better. He isn't going to change and so I think it's best to shut him off before he can waste the energy of too many others. I'm actually not far off proposing topic banning him from ITN all together tbh. ] (]) 03:37, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
	Please when you have a reference, please insert it into the article. Talking about american football reference
	:What reference and what article? Any articles I have worked on with American Football have been scrupulously referenced. --]''''']''''' 23:39, 23 July 2012 (UTC)		:I don't think that is a bad idea. --]] 18:51, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
			== Regarding Muller's video, thank you for posting it. ==
	== ] CSD ==
			Hi. Thank you for all your contributions.:-) It's been awhile since I read about Muller's sources. Muller's video was most certainly relevant to the OP's query. Thank you for posting it. In the 80s, I would often hang-out in the NCSU library bookstacks researching the physics' literature and I'm an hour's drive away now. I continue modeling and will likely deposit a paper on ] this spring. Again, thank you for ''all'' your contributions. ] (]) 18:57, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
	Are custom speedy deletion rationales no longer allowed or something?—] (]) 20:57, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
	:They never have been, per se. The only valid reasons for '''speedy''' deletions are the enumerated ones. If you can't idetify on of the enumerated rationales for '''speedy''' delting an article, you need to use the slower processes. This is because deletion is an aggressive and uninviting process, and we want to make sure that we are deliberative where we need to be. For that reason, we should only '''speedily''' delete an article for a very limited number of reasons. That does not mean that I think it shouldn't be deleted. And saying that doesn't mean that I think it should. I have no opinion one way or another. But if it should be deleted, it should be considered by more than one person's opinion, because it doesn't meet the speedy deletion requirements. --]''''']''''' 03:29, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
			== Bans ==
	== WikiProject Wikify: July Newsletter and August Drive ==
			Here's a hypothetical: Supposing I have an interaction ban with a user, and that user subsequently retires. How, if at all, does that change the terms of the ban? Does it mean I can never work on subjects that user worked on, even though that user would no longer be working on those subjects? ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 12:57, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
	{{Mbox|type = notice|image = ]|style = background: white; color: black; border: 1px solid gray;|text = <div style="font-size: 20pt; font-family: Times New Roman; text-align: center; ">]</div><br/>
			:Not sure. I find that, 95% of the time, retirements are extremely temporary, though, so keep that in mind. I think, in general, if you have questions about the extent of a ban, asking the admin who notified you of the ban is a good place to start, though, if you have more specific questions. --]] 12:59, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
	<div style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: Times New Roman; text-align: center; "><font color=darkslategray>Your Wikification Newsletter – Volume II, Issue I, July 2012</font></div>
			::That's a good point. I'll give it some time. There's no rush. Thank you for your advice. :) ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 16:27, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
	<br />
	<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Times New Roman; text-align: center; ">] &bull; ] &bull; ]<p>] &bull; ]
	</div>
	|-
	| valign="top" colspan="2" style="padding: 0.5em; font-family: Times New Roman; text-align: center; font-size: 85%; " |
	To assist with preparing the newsletter, please visit the ]. Past editions may be viewed ].}}
			== Your recent update to Count Rumford entry ==
	{{Mbox|type = notice|image = ]|style = background:LightYellow; color: black; border: 1px solid gold; |text = '''Hi there! I thought you might be interested in WikiProject Wikify's ]. We'll be trying to reduce the backlog and we need your help! Hard-working participants in the drive will receive ] for their contributions. If you have a spare moment, please join and wikify an article or tell your friends. Thanks!''' <br/><small>{{align|right|Note: The drive starts August 1, and you can ]!}}</small>}}
	:] (]) 21:26, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
	<!-- EdwardsBot 0306 -->
			While your update to the article is accurate, your "reason summary" is in accurate. A typo of course, but in 1853, very definitely did both American and British identities exist. I'm sure you meant to put 1753, the year of Rumford's birth. ] (]) 18:13, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
	== Dunmore War ==
			:Yes, I meant that. It was an anachronism in 1753; American nationality did not exist. --]] 18:15, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
			::Hey there, not a big deal and nothing about the correction you made to the actual article, but I think you misunderstood my comment to you. You have given as summary explanation for your changes that the American identity did not exist in EIGHTEEN FIFTY THREE. When I'm sure you meant to type SEVENTEEN FIFTY THREE (the year of Rumford's birth) because by 1853, most definitely an American identity DID EXIST. ] (]) 18:24, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
			:::Yes, I meant to say 1753. I screwed up when I typed 1853 in the edit summary bar. I though I ''just said that''. Why are you yelling at me for confirming both that a) I was wrong and b) you were correct to say that I was wrong. How many ''more times'' do you need me to tell you that ''I was wrong when I wrote 1853''. Do you want to try yelling at me louder, so I can confirm ''a third time'' that I was wrong. Would that make you happy? --]] 18:28, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
			::::Take the stick out of your ass! The uppercase was NOT yelling, but for clearly emphasizing the difference. Sorry I misunderstood your first response. ] (]) 19:24, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
			:::::You're right. I was an asshole. I'm sorry I responded the way I did, I have no excuse. You did nothing wrong in correcting me. You're right, and I'm wrong. I continue to be the biggest asshole at Misplaced Pages. I'm not sure what else to do about that, other than offer my sincere apology for letting it out against you; you did nothing to deserve that. --]] 19:33, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
			== Administrators' newsletter – March 2023 ==
	Jayron
	Thanks for finding this wonderful book on the Dunmore War. I am looking for Peter Hull and Peter Zickafoose. They served under a commander named Wilson who was killed at Point Pleasant. They were Roll #64 for Augusta County in West Virginia. They were listed as being paid in the Dunmore War in 1774 and not the American Revolution in 1775. We are trying to find them to verify information for acceptance in the DAR. Any other help you can give would be greatly appreciated.] (]) 02:49, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
			] from the past month (February 2023).
	== WikiCup 2012 July newsletter ==
			{{Col-begin}}
	]
			{{Col-2}}
	We're approaching the beginning of 2012's final round. Pool A sees {{Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Participant3|Cwmhiraeth}} as the leader, with 300 points being awarded for the featured article ], and Pool B sees {{Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Participant3|Grapple X}} in the lead, with 10 good articles, and over 35 articles eligible for good topic points. Pool A sees {{Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Participant3|Muboshgu}} in second place with a number of articles relating to baseball, while Pool B's {{Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Participant3|Ruby2010}} follows Grapple X, with a variety of contributions including the high-scoring, high-importance featured article on the 2010 film '']''. Ruby2010, like Grapple X, also claimed a number of good topic points; despite this, not a single point has been claimed for featured topics in the contest so far. The same is true for featured portals.
			] '''Administrator changes'''
	Currently, the eighth-place competitor (and so the lowest scorer who would reach the final round right now) has scored 332, more than double the 150 needed to reach the final round last year. In 2010, however, 430 was the lowest qualifying score. In this competition, we have generally seen scores closer to those in 2010 than those in 2011. Let's see what kind of benchmark we can set for future competitions! As ever, if you are concerned that your nomination—whether it is at good article candidates, a featured process, or anywhere else—will not receive the necessary reviews, please list it on ]. Questions are welcome on ], and the judges are reachable on their talk pages or by email. Good luck! <small>If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from ].</small> ] (] • ]) and ] (] • ]) 22:26, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
			:] ]
	<!-- EdwardsBot 0316 -->
			:] {{hlist|class=inline
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			{{Col-2}}
	== The Great Revival: ] ==
			]
	Hi! We're dropping you this rather unexpected message on your talk page because you signed up (either quite a while ago or rather recently) to be a member of the ]. Sadly, the project fell into semi-retirement a few years ago, but as part of a new plan to fix up the ], we're bringing back the Vandalism Studies project, with a new study planned for Late 2012! But we need your help. Are you still interested in working with us on this project? Then ]! (even if you signed up previously, you'll still need to sign up again - we're redoing our member list in order to not harass those who are no longer active on the Wiki - sorry!) If you have ''any'' questions, please leave them on ]. Thanks, and we can't wait to bring the project back to life! ''-] (]) & ] (]), Coordinators''
	<!-- EdwardsBot 0317 -->
			] '''CheckUser changes'''
	== ANI ==
			:] ]
			] '''Oversighter changes'''
	I think I piggybacked your protection somehow. I was setting it for 3 hours semi-protection. Feel free to change it to whatever it was you were setting it for. Weird, thought it would had prompted me that you had just done it. Kindly ] ] 03:44, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
			:] ]
	: I set it for 3 hours as well, a few minutes before you did. No big whoop. It's all good. --]''''']''''' 03:49, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
	::Cool. Great minds think alike and all that ... :) Take care Jayron ] ] 03:56, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
	:::I saw you both double-teaming the protection and just figured you were making REALLY sure it stuck. ;> Cheers! --] (]) 04:58, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
			{{Col-end}}
	==Page Triage newsletter==
	Hey all. Some quick but important updates on what we've been up to and what's coming up next :).
			] '''Guideline and policy news'''
	The curation toolbar, our Wikimedia-supported twinkle replacement. We're going to be deploying it, along with a pile of bugfixes, to wikipedia on '''9 August'''. After a few days to check it doesn't make anything explode or die, we'll be sticking up a big notice and sending out an additional newsletter inviting people to test it out and give us feedback :). This will be followed by two office hours sessions - one on Tuesday the 14th of August at 19:00 UTC for all us Europeans, and one on Wednesday the 15th at 23:00 UTC for the East Coasters out there :). As always, these will be held in #wikimedia-office; drop me a note if you want to know how to easily get on IRC, or if you aren't able to attend but would like the logs.
			*Following a ], ] (useless non-media files) has been deprecated.
			*Following a ], the Portal CSD criteria (] (portal subject to CSD as an article) and ] (underpopulated portal)) have been deprecated.
			*A ] is open to discuss making the ] for the ] process a guideline.
			] '''Technical news'''
	I hope to see a lot of you there; it's going to be a big day for everyone involved, I think :). I'll have more notes after the deployment! ] (]) 20:09, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
			* The results of the ] have been ].
			] '''Arbitration'''
	==''The Tea Leaf'' - Issue Five==
			* ] of the ] has ].
	] at the ], today!]]
			* The proposed decision for the ] case is expected 7 March 2023.
	Hi! Welcome to the fifth edition of ''The Tea Leaf'', the official newsletter of the ]!
			* A case related to the ] is expected to be opened soon.
			] '''Miscellaneous'''
	*'''Guest activity increased in July.''' Questions are up from an average of 36 per week in June to 43 per week in July, and guest profile creation has also increased. This is likely a result of the ] experiments we started near the end of month, which seeks to lessen the burden on hosts and other volunteer who manually invite editors. During the last week of July, questions doubled in the Teahouse! (But don't let that deter you from ] editors to the Teahouse, please, there are still lots of new editors who haven't found Teahouse yet.)
			* The 2023 appointees for the ] are ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ] and ] as regular members and ] as advisory members.
	*'''More Teahouse hosts than ever.''' We had 12 new hosts sign up to participate at the Teahouse! We now have 35 hosts volunteering at the Teahouse. Feel free to stop by and see them all ].
			* Following the ], the following editors have been appointed as stewards: ], ], and ].
	*'''Phase two update: Host sprint.''' In August, the Teahouse team plans to improve the host experience by developing a simpler new-host creation process, a better way of surfacing active hosts, and a host lounge renovation. Take a look at the plan and weigh in ].
			* The ] has started, which ] a {{tq|roposal for better addressing undisclosed paid editing}}. Feedback is being accepted until 24 April 2023.
	*'''New Teahouse guest barnstar is awarded to first recipient: Charlie Inks.''' Using the Teahouse barnstar designed by ], hosts ] and ] created the new Teahouse Guest Barnstar. The first recipient is ], for her boldness in asking questions at the Teahouse. Check out the award in action ].
	*'''Teahouse was a hot topic at Wikimania!''' The Teahouse was a hot topic at ] this past month, where editor retention and interface design was heavily discussed. ] and ] presented the Teahouse during the ] panel. Slides can be viewed ]. A ] was also held at Wikimania for Teahouse hosts.
			----
	As always, thanks for supporting the Teahouse project! Stop by and ] us today!
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			==User:Wjemather==
	<small>You are receiving ''The Tea Leaf'' after expressing interest or participating in the Teahouse! To remove yourself from receiving future newsletters, please remove your username ]. ] (]) 08:28, 4 August 2012 (UTC)</small>
			Wjemather has been unnecessarily undoing good edits from editors (myself and others ) for three years now. Editors have tried reasoning with that person over time, but that person does not want to listen. Several people in private chats have expressed their frustration with that person, simply because they don't know where else to turn to talk of their frustration.
			That person's behaviour has not only been unproked, unneeded undoings of valid edits that no one else has ever had a problem with, but hypocritical also; the list is long of the times that that person would spitefully undo the very same type of edits that they themself have done before, throwing logic out the window. In other words, it's okay for themself, but not for others.
	== A beer for you! ==
			One other behaviour that makes that person unreasonable is making things up on the spot: An editor will do a good edit in the traditional way, but then this person in question will undo the edit with the excuse (paraphrasing), "Just because this is the traditional way is not an excuse to keep doing it that way.".
	{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
	|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]
	|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Cheers, and thanks for your doublebuttcheekalicious answer to my half-assed query. ] (]) 05:18, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
	|}
	:Awesome. Mooch ass grassy ass! --]''''']''''' 05:24, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
			Trying to reason with that person has failed for years with many who have tried.
	==Talkback==
	{{talkback|Wikipedia_talk:Teahouse/Host_lounge|Host lounge content: your input is needed!!|ts=23:15, 7 August 2012 (UTC)}}
	] (]) 23:15, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
			I've been editing on Misplaced Pages since 2007 and had never had any real problems from an editor until that one. I've been doing the same type of edits in the same way since the beginning, and in early 2020 that person came along and decided to be the first to take their own personal feelings and force feed them onto the Misplaced Pages community with uncalled for retractions that no one else had ever had a problem with. Nitpicking at every single turn, unJusifiably.
	== A barnstar for you! ==
			Most of that person's edits are undoings,, not additions, meaning the main purpose that person has had over the last three years has been to unneededly undo other people's edits, even when having to make up a reason to do so.
	{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
	|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]
	|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Barnstar of Good Humor'''
	|-
	|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | . Good work! -- '''] ]''' 00:53, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
	|}
	:Grazie... --]''''']''''' 00:59, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
			Simply to spite me, that person went and undid a good edit of mine on a page concerning a topic that they no absolutely nothing about:
	==New Pages newsletter==
	Hey all :)
			https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=2022_State_of_the_Union_Address&type=revision&diff=1063538815&oldid=1063093800
	A couple of new things.
			Also last year, that person went back on a previously agreed upon standard for preparing the WGC MATCH Play page, one in which that person had willingly agreed to the year before:
	First, you'll note that all the project titles have now changed to the Page Curation prefix, rather than having the New Pages Feed prefix. This is because the overarching project name has changed to Page Curation; the feed is still known as New Pages Feed, and the Curation Toolbar is still the Curation Toolbar. Hopefully this will be the ''last'' namechange ;p.
			https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=2022_WGC-Dell_Technologies_Match_Play&diff=1079435859&oldid=1079434098
	On the subject of the Curation Toolbar (nice segue, Oliver!) - it's '''now deployed on Misplaced Pages'''. Just open up any article in ] and it should appear on the right.
			It gets worse, you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't; If you do an edit one particular way, that person undoes it and criticizes you, but then if you do the edit the opposite way, that person still undoes it and criticizes you.
	It's still a beta version - bugs are expected - and we've got a lot more work to do. But if you see something going wrong, or a feature missing, drop me a note or post on the ] and I'll be happy to help :). Thanks! ] (]) 00:12, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
			I would have to go and do weeks' worth of finding and citing all the examples of that person's gross, uncalled for undoings.
	== WikiProject Wikify and the future of wikification ==
			For now, I will show a few recent examples of the kinds of edits that no one else ever had a a problem with, but this person is hell bent on interfering with anyway:
			Undoing a perfectly good preparation that is done each week on the PGA Tour, for no reason ...
	Hi! There is ''']''' concerning the future of wikification, including possible deprecation of the {{t|wikify}} template which is being discussed at ]. Your input would be greatly appreciated!
			https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Masters_Tournament&type=revision&diff=1141795948&oldid=1141795855
	<small>You are receiving this message because you are listed as an active member of the wikify project. To update your status, go ].</small>
			Undoing more preparation that is done as a normal thing in Misplaced Pages, for no reason ...
	<small>Delivered by ] (]) 15:45, 12 August 2012 (UTC) on behalf of ]</small>
	<!-- EdwardsBot 0321 -->
	:In response to your concern, regardless of the outcome of the TfD, ] ''should'' exist and will cover the same problems currently found in ].&nbsp;]&nbsp;] 04:51, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
			https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Template%3AThe_Masters_champions&type=revision&diff=1141796145&oldid=1141796054
	== Your input is requested at Misplaced Pages:Bots/Requests for approval/HostBot 2 ==
			And those are only two examples of a half a dozen interference type of undoings in the last 24 hours. It takes time and trouble to go and post these here, so I'll stop there for now.
	{{talkback|Misplaced Pages:Bots/Requests_for_approval/HostBot_2|Discussion_break|ts=21:31, 13 August 2012 (UTC)}}
	Thought you might be interested in weighing in on the invites v. welcomes thread?
	- ''']''' ] ] 21:31, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
			Other times, that person will try to get a page deleted, because in their OPINION the page was made "too early", something of which no one else has ever been known to complain about in recent years. There are links to show proof of this.
	== <small>Changing another editor's post</small> ==
			After three years of constant interference of spiteful, uncalled for undoings, we will not tolerate it any longer. I have been on here for sixteen years without serious trouble for 13 of them. Over the last three years, this constant hypocritical and unneeded interference won't be tolerated. Even the simple act of letting that person know, they lash back as if you are wronging them in some way, playing the victim.
	<small>I made i promise i wouldn't, and that's why i didn't. :P ] (]) 20:21, 18 August 2012 (UTC)</small>
			Since no one has been able to get through to them because of their unreasonableness, we hope maybe you could have a chat with them to see if you can get through. ] (]) 19:54, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
	== baby death, and other stories ==
			:{{ping|Johnsmith2116}} Sorry, I have a personal policy against responding to private requests to act in an administrative capacity here at my user talk page. If you need administrator intervention for a behavioral issue with another user, the correct place to do so is at ]. --]] 20:41, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
			==Srebrenica massacre==
	Jayron,
			What needs to happen before I be allowed to edit that aricle again? Also while I am banned from editing the article, does my opinion still count with regards wider discussion? --] (]) 20:40, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
			The reason I ask the above is because I still have access to the talk page. --] (]) 21:02, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
	I think the question I reverted is actually pretty clear vandalism/trolling. You just have to look at the first revision the IP made to see it. Did you see ? - ''']''' ] ] 05:16, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
			:If I were you, I'd let that matter go for a while. Try editing in other areas of Misplaced Pages. --]] 09:35, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
	:If you think the question's legitimate (as I don't), could you perhaps answer it? It's kind of killing me having an unanswered question titled 'baby death' at the top of the Q&A board. :) - ''']''' ] ] 05:24, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
	:Thanks! Nice reply. Much more decorous than I could have been. - ''']''' ] ] 05:32, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
	::I don't see any definition where it could have been vandalism, so that's a bit of a problem. Thanks Jayron for providing standard handling. ] (]) 05:34, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
	::(response to comment #2 above, after multiple edit conflicts) Yes, I saw both. The first post explains the second post quite well. He was "clinically dead" as an infant, and was revived, and is looking for information on other similar cases as his own. Asking questions like that is '''clearly''' not vandalism. He's a curious person and looking for information, and people who do that shouldn't be told they are vandalizing Misplaced Pages. Misplaced Pages is here to provide information, and we should help them find it, or if we can't, we should let people who can do so. --]''''']''''' 05:35, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
	:::Still looks like trolling to me. But thanks again for addressing it. - ''']''' ] ] 05:40, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
	::::Well, to be honest, that's why ] exists. Even if I thought it was trolling, I would still have answered it the same way. If it was trolling, and I was wrong, there's no harm done. If it was an honest question, and I wrongly answer it like it was trolling, then there IS a lot of harm done. So, judging by which side is less damaging if I screw up, I usually try to answer questions as though they are legit. Even if I think it might be trolling, it does no harm to give the kind answer. --]''''']''''' 05:44, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
	:::::Word. I knee-jerk reacted. - ''']''' ] ] 05:47, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
	::::::It's all good. Don't sweat the small stuff. --]''''']''''' 05:48, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
	== NC music venues navbox ==		== JRRobinson ==
			Greetings. Was kind of curious as to why this discussion ] was not acted upon? They are still continuing their problematic behavior. ] <sup>]</sup> 11:51, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
	Hello-
			:It was not acted upon because it was archived before anyone acted upon it. If the issues have not been resolved, start a new thread at ] with a pointer to the prior discussion, noting that the behavioral issues have not improved. --]] 18:56, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
	Thanks for the additions and updates to this navbox! I was really hoping others would contribute to make them better. I only have up the VA and NC ones right now because I know the most about those. I made them for most states if you want to give them a look, just look for "Template:Music venues of " I like that you added venues, also that you made the categories a little more accurate, I might do that with some others as well. Thanks again! ] (]) 17:29, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
	:Thanks for noticing. Just contributing where I can. --]''''']''''' 19:21, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
			== Album credits are their own source ==
	==Talkback==
	{{talkback|Wikipedia_talk:Teahouse/Host_lounge|Build a host profile in our new fancy new host creation system!|ts=06:12, 24 August 2012 (UTC)}}
	] (]) 06:12, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
			Regarding your "In the News" nomination of ], you said the article is 90% ready, needing just a few things including sourcing for the discography. I thought I might mention that album liner notes and record sleeve credits are akin to books: they have a publishing date, identifying number and a publisher (the record label). Basically, they are their own reliable sources. I threw some book credits in the discography as a convenience, kind of like having two cites for important facts. But the "uncited" entries are explicitly naming their source when they name an album title. ] (]) 03:25, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
	== Tours ==
			:I generally agree with you, but anticipate nearly everyone else who will say we need to cite every entry to some third party source. I have ''always'' been fine with not requiring every item in a -ography being cited, as one generally assumes the citation is to the work itself, but alas, some people flip their lids unless they see a footnote in every section, common sense be damned. --]] 18:55, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
			== ITN recognition for ] ==
	Hiyo. Re: that reference desk ]. I'm contemplating writing a note on the talkpage of each of those 3 existing lists (and/or their main "concert tour" lists), inviting the editors to consider merging the sub-lists, and pointing to the referencedesk thread as a rationale for merging. Good plan? Any suggestions or advice before I do so? Ta :) -- ] (]) 07:48, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
	:Oh, don't use me as a rationale for anything. I'm a world-class bullshitter. It doesn't mean that I'm not trying in earnest to be correct, but I'd rather I wasn't used as a justification for your plans to change anything. Which is not to say that you should or shouldn't do anything, but leave me out of it... --]''''']''''' 11:43, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
	::Hehe, that's exactly why I was asking before doing anything. Aren't I nice! ;) Okay, I'll raise the possibility with them some later day, without mentioning the refdesk thread. Thanks for the answers there though, twas helpful. ttfn, -- ] (]) 23:28, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
			{{ivmbox
	== Vandalism Studies Update - ''August 2012'' ==
			|1=On 9 March 2023, ''''']''''' was updated with an item that involved the article ''''']''''', which you updated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the ]. —] (]) 02:34, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
			|2={{Ambox globe current red}}
			|imagesize=50px
			}}
			== Rick Beato ==
	Hello, members of the ]! As some of us are quite new with the Vandalism Studies project, it would make sense for us to re-read some of the past studies, as well as ]. Please do so if you have a chance, just so we can get into the groove of things. We're planning on attempting to salvage the Obama study (or possibly simply convert it to a new Romney study), as well as hopefully begin our ] this November. If you have any ideas for Study 3, ''']'''! If you have any questions please post them on the ]. Thanks, and happy editing - we can't wait to begin working on the project! --] (]) and ''']] '''</font><sub>]</sup></sup></br> 11:31, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
	</br><sub>If you would like to stop receiving ] newsletters, please ]</sub>
	<!-- EdwardsBot 0332 -->
			I restored the reference to his recent Keith Jarrett video, but added cited material affirming this particular video is singularly notable in Beato's output and not in fact "a video I watched that I liked" as per your edit summary, though I understand it may have appeared that way without the extra context. Hope there might be some consensus around this. ] (]) 22:51, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
	== A barnstar for you! ==
			:Seems reasonable. --]] 17:04, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
			::Thanks. Also thanks for chronologising. I thought to break the chronology to delineate the take-down notices and copyright claims as an implied new subtopic, but your take is appreciated. ] (]) 18:52, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
			== Evackost ==
	{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
	|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]
	|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Barnstar of Good Humor'''
	|-
	|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | For help desk edit summary. Really brightened up my watch list :D ] (]) 19:11, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
	|}
	:Thanks! --]''''']''''' 19:15, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
			is at UTRS. OK to leave blocked, but vanish? ] (]) 16:06, 13 March 2023 (UTC)
	== About ITN and BLP ==
			:IMHO, yes, leave them blocked, but help them with the Vanish procedure would probably be best. Whatever needs to be done to complete the ] request would be great. --]] 16:14, 13 March 2023 (UTC)
			::Thanks. I just need to make an explanatory note and click some buttons. (Vanishing is not really possible. We delude ourselves, but it always leaves traces.) ] (]) 17:08, 13 March 2023 (UTC)
			:::Of course; talk page signatures and stuff like that. But if we can do the standard "rename the account and lock everything down" that we usually do, that'd be fine. Thanks again! --]] 17:12, 13 March 2023 (UTC)
			::::User asked at the global renaming queue ''four times'', was denied, and was blocked by the Stewards. So it was an end-run that failed. ] (]) 17:27, 13 March 2023 (UTC)
			:::::If they had come to me first, I could have helped them. ] (]) 17:28, 13 March 2023 (UTC)
			== Hubris67 ==
	Just want to clarify that I wasn't suggesting that you were saying what happened at that image at ITN wasn't a BLP violation. It's just that the discussion suggested the possibility there were people who did think so. (I was really not sure of the best place to indent that comment, which may have made it seem more directed at you than I meant it.) ] ] 09:49, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
	:Oh, I know. I got that. The thing that I was trying to get across to FPAS especially (and he got it, so there's no problem), is that there are a diversity of opinions on the matter, and it doesn't pay to take the stance that one's own opinion is so self-evident as to demand action to remedy it. I actually agree with his point, but it isn't helpful to act as though people who didn't agree weren't worth listening to, or that one should act as though their opinions didn't matter. But yeah, I understood you, we're good here. --]''''']''''' 13:31, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
			I left a comment over at ] about a block you made, get this, almost 15 years ago. Looking for your thoughts on a possible unblock. -- ] (]) 13:06, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
			== No worries ==
			All's good. :) ] (]) 15:39, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
			== Administrators' newsletter – April 2023 ==
			] from the past month (March 2023).
			{{Col-begin}}
			{{Col-2}}
			] '''Administrator changes'''
			:] ]
			:] ]
			{{Col-2}}
			]
			] '''CheckUser changes'''
			:] ]
			{{Col-end}}
			] '''Guideline and policy news'''
			* A ] is open to discuss whether reports primarily involving ] should be referred to the ].
			] '''Technical news'''
			* Some older ]s will not be able to use ] on Wikimedia wikis starting this week. This mainly affects users of ]. ({{phab|T178356}})
			* The ] has found no consensus to rollback to Vector legacy, but has found rough consensus to disable "limited width" mode by default.
			* A link to the user's ] page will now appear in the subtitle links shown on ]. This was voted #17 in the ].
			] '''Arbitration'''
			* The '']'' case has been closed.
			* A case about ] has been opened, with the first evidence phase closing 6 April 2023.
			----
			{{center|{{flatlist|
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			}}}}
			<!--
			-->{{center|1=<small>Sent by ] (]) 17:11, 4 April 2023 (UTC)</small>}}
			<!-- Message sent by User:Dreamy Jazz@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Administrators%27_newsletter/Subscribe&oldid=1146829295 -->
			==Disambiguation link notification for April 7==
			An automated process has detected that when you recently edited ], you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page ]<!-- (&nbsp;|&nbsp;)-->.
			(].) --] (]) 06:10, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
			====
			Given the amount of work that went into this discussion – 900 words from 11 users – it might have been appropriate to leave it for a while for others interested in the topic. History is complex.– ] (]) 14:54, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
			:"{{tq|Given the amount of <s>work that went into</s> '''time that was wasted on''' this discussion – 900 words from 11 users – it might have been appropriate to <s>leave it for a while for others interested in the topic</s> '''actually have deleted it a long time ago, because it was a complete embarrassment to everyone involved'''.}} It looks like you had a few typos in your comment. I fixed them for you. --]] 15:05, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
			== Bludgeoning ==
			Please allow me to return the favor of directing your attention to some good practices: ]
			I really did learn something - thanks! ] (]) 15:17, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
			:Cool story, bro. --]] 15:21, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
			== Procedural notification ==
			Hi, I and others have proposed additional options at ]. You may wish to review your position in that RfC. ] (]) 02:14, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
			== A kitten for you! ==
			]
			Thanks for your strong defence of how important AGF is. Your eloquence and sharp writing on this topic is greatly appreciated and a delight to read. I'm glad someone can describe my thoughts on the proposed canvass changes better than I can. Hope you enjoy your weekend and catch plenty of spring sun.
			— ] <sup>( ] / ] ) </sup> &#8258; <small> ]. </small> 01:39, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
			<br style="clear: both;"/>
			:Thank you very kindly! --]] 11:47, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
			== Workshopping the god-awful ITN significance standard ==
			Hi Jayron32,
			Let's put aside our cynicism for a moment: I have been working on creating a new path to assessing significance at ITN using a criteria that isn't so subjective. This is a long post, so I am going to hat it for your sake.
			{{hat|Purpose}}
			The ] significance criteria currently states that the following principles are useful for assessing consensus:
			* The length and depth of coverage itself
			* The number of unique articles about the topic
			* The frequency of updates about the topic
			* The types of news sources reporting the story
			In my opinion, these principles would be excellent in determining whether a story is worth posting. However, in practice, we rarely see consistent adherence to these principles leading to the unfortunate outcome that consensus is usually based on a head count. Indeed, the threshold for "length and depth of coverage" could be narrow for some users (like myself) and wide for others. It's clear that demolishing the significance standard outright would not be workable either, for it risks creating the perception that ] is a ]. Yet at the same time, the current standard is contentious and the divides between users are deep and in some cases irreconcilable.
			This thread seeks to workshop the idea of what a less contentious, less subjective criterion would look like. There is no point in attempting to prescribe a change to our procedures or guidelines as to what kind of items we should be posting to ITN, because there would never be any consensus to achieve this. Instead, the goal should be to find a common ground on rewording the current standard so as to reorient users towards a less adversarial approach to ITN/C.
			{{hab}}
			{{hat|Background}}
			Let’s look at the things that presumed notable items do have in common, and those things that presumed non-notable items have in common. Note that all of these would have reliable source coverage:
			* '''Examples of notable items:''' National elections, national or international sporting events with large viewership, disasters that affect lots of people, first rocket launches for a nation, wars, assassinations of a major political figure.
			* '''Examples of non-notable items:''' Celebrity gossip, subnational elections, political intrigue, athletic records.
			* '''Examples of grey area items''': Lawsuits between two major companies, business mergers, major archeological or scientific discoveries, United Nations directives, moderate disasters in areas that are known for disasters.
			By categorizing these items, we can see the following commonalities:
			* '''Notable items''' impact large amounts of people on a wide scale, whether it’s the population of a country or the whole world. They do not necessarily have to be injured or killed in order for this to happen, nor does there necessarily need to be international crossover, but it is an item that grabs public attention and may impact daily life in a significant way for those concerned
			* '''Non-notable items''' are usually ignored because they don’t affect as many people. Or if they do affect people, the impact is not very tangible and at times the news coverage outsizes the actual notability.
			* '''The grey area items''' fall somewhere in the middle, in that they affect a lot of people, but the actual degree of the impact is difficult to pinpoint for those outside of that sphere. This is the area that causes the most contention at ITN.
			{{hab}}
			{{hat|Proposed standard}}
			Therefore, it seems that rather than a significance standard, we should be assessing based on an '''impact''' standard. This would not change how we operate at ITN/C, as the assessment method is still the same. However, the focus would change to determining the degree and scale as to how people are impacted. We can measure this by assessing the news coverage and answering the following questions:
			* '''Depth:''' How much news coverage is this item receiving?
			* '''Impact:''' How does the story define the impact on people in the region affected, if there is any?
			* '''Ramifications:''' For the news category this story is posted under (politics, art, science, sports, etc.), what sort of ramifications are there?
			Functionally, the types of items that are being posted to ITN would not change, as we are still assessing the significance of the stories, but we now have a clear standard in which we can review items as opposed to the waves of voting that essentially boil down to “it doesn’t affect me, so it must not be important.” In making the criteria more specific and objective, we would no longer apply a blanket, abstract “significance standard”. Instead, we qualitatively assess based on the above criteria, by actually reviewing the news coverage and exploring the details within it. From there, we can reach a consensus around whether these criteria have been satisfied rather than based on a head count.
			The other advantage to this is that as we continue to use this system, the global consensus on ITN around what items are posted becomes clearer and more definable, which will help other users who might not understand what is required in order for a newsworthy item to actually be posted. Furthermore, we can document the changes over time as consensus changes.
			{{hab}}
			I know you and I have talked before, and you have explained that we already have standards in place for which we should assess something objectively. But I do believe that establishing clarity on significance would create a path to which those standards you speak of can actually be employed and thus enforced.
			If you think this is worth trying, I can post it to ] and get people's input on it. It might be a better idea than just doing away with significance criteria entirely. ''']'''-''<small>(])</small>'' 14:46, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
			:I think you're going to face an up-hill battle, because people who's purpose is to be cultural gatekeepers will fight ''vehemently'' to that role they have created for themselves. I support these efforts, and have no problem with you writing up a proposal of this type. I only hope there's enough consensus to grant some clarity here. --]] 11:47, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
	== A barnstar for you! ==		== A barnstar for you! ==
	{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"		{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
	|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]		|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]
	|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Barnstar of Good Humor'''		|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Admin's Barnstar'''
	|-		|-
			|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Thanks for all your good work ''']'''<span style="border:2px solid #073642;background:rgb(255,156,0);background:linear-gradient(90deg, rgba(255,156,0,1) 0%, rgba(147,0,255,1) 45%, rgba(4,123,134,1) 87%);">]</span> 18:43, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
	|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | This edit summary here: genuinely made me laugh loud :-) Certainly lightened up my watchlist. '''] (] • ])''' 14:44, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
	|}		|}
	:Why thanks. We aim to please. Or as the lady who cleans the commode often says "You aim too, ''please''". --]''''']''''' 22:30, 26 August 2012 (UTC)		:Thank you! I try! --]] 18:44, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
			I actually think youre a very fine admin, and very far from the worst. Thanks for re-opening the RFC, <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']''' - 14:06, 25 April 2023 (UTC)</small>
			:Thanks for saying so. If that were true, I wouldn't keep screwing things like this up, however. --]] 15:01, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
			::Making a mistake (and it wasnt even really that) isnt a sign of a poor admin, refusing to fix it is. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']''' - 15:20, 25 April 2023 (UTC)</small>
			==RE: UTRS==
	== "The earth, broadly construed" ==
			Hey. Thanks for your thoughtful closing note. That said, my understanding is that ] is for when a blocked user's talk page has been revoked (i.e. {{tl|uw-tparevoked}}). Which is to say, its intended use being to convince UTRS admins—or rather, '']'' ;)—that talk page access can be restored for the purposes of posting a normal unblock request. ] 17:08, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
			:Thanks. I'll adjust. --]] 17:59, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
			== Administrators' newsletter – May 2023 ==
	The earth, broadly construed, would include all of the oceans and land areas, but we'd probably need an RfC on whether the atmosphere is covered.
			] from the past month (April 2023).
	(On a more serious note, there actually have occasionally been proposals to apply DS to all national and ethnical disputes between neighboring countries or regions, rather than wait for the disputes to flare up one-by-one....) ] (]) 01:45, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
	:Actually, behavioral expectations should be better across the board in all of Misplaced Pages, but I know I am fighting a losing battle on that one. --]''''']''''' 01:47, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
	::Well, I generally agree with you, at least as an aspirational matter (although my comments tonight on ANI in the ATG/IT thread are probably a counterexample). The most troublesome topic-areas, of course, are the ones in which the most motivated (and sometimes the most knowledgeable) editors are also the most opinionated ones. I often find myself wishing that ] had caught on. Regards, ] (]) 02:06, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
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	==Talkback==
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	{{talkback|I Jethrobot|You accidentally deleted my post, could you return it?|ts=20:26, 28 August 2012 (UTC)}}
	]] <small>(note: not a ]!)</small> 20:26, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
			] '''Administrator changes'''
	== Southern Baptist? ==
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	Hi, I am from the Reference Desk, and I am the asker who has inquired the following question: ]
			]
	I just have some follow-up questions concerning your Southern Baptist faith and lifestyle, and they are of a personal nature. Hope you don't mind the personal questions. Out of curiosity, do you really, really, really allow atheists to sit in a pew at your church, and under what conditions do you allow them to sit at your church? Have you tried to advertise your faith by handing out free brochures or cards about your church? There are Christians on my college campus who love to do that and try to advertise their church group everywhere, handing out free goodies (cards, brochures, candies, sodas, freezer pops, etc.). Even if Christians are promoting charity work, they always use that time to advertise their church group. Sometimes, I wonder how these Christians obtain the money required to fund promotionals, but I suppose churches require Christians to pay tithes, an obligatory 10% of their income to serve God or the church. I also wonder if Christians tend to put a higher importance on advertisement of their church group more than actually helping people and caring about others. How many people are there in your church? I am just wondering, because I would assume that the population size of a church matters. Perhaps, smaller churches are more likely to notice someone new in the congregation, whereas bigger churches are more likely ignore newcomers/visitors. Do you attend a big church or a small church? If an unfamiliar person enters your church building on a Sunday worship day, sits in a pew in the back of the room out of sight and out of mind from the rest of the crowd and then leaves surreptitiously and continues this strange habit every Sunday due to a strange interest in hearing sermons or experiencing a culture that he may have never experienced before despite his personal irreligiosity or atheism, then would you get a little suspicious or really not bother at all? I just want to know personally, because I am wondering if it is possible to sit in a pew without getting noticed. ] (]) 00:53, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
			] '''CheckUser changes'''
	:Sure, we invite all people to attend our church. No one is born a Christian, it is a lifestyle and a faith that one has to choose conciously. Southern Baptists believe in what is called "Believer's Baptism"; we don't baptise infants because we believe that a person has to choose Christianity of their own free will. That means, of course, that everyone isn't going to be at the same place in their faith. We are a very open church, and we want people of all backgrounds to attend our church and hear the word because we believe that hearing the word is the only way they are going to choose to be Christians. (Also, when I speak of my church, I speak of my specific congregation, which is ''a'' Southern Baptist church. There is no ''the'' Southern Baptist church because there is no central doctrinal authority; Southern Baptists believe in the autonomy of the individual congregation. You can enter two Baptist churches and get two WILDLY different experiences. Baptist churches will probably show the greatest diverstity of worship style, theology, organization, etc. than any other denomination. I also describe myself as a Christian who is a member of a Southern Baptist church. I believe myself no different than a Christian who attends a Catholic Church or a Methodist Church or a Lutheran Church, all who profess faith in Jesus and follow him are Saved, regardless of what the worship service looks like.) As far as money in my Church, all of the money comes from donations from people who attend the services and are members. My family tithes, because we feel led by God to do so, but there is no requirement or pressure to do so from the Church itself. People give what they are led to give. The size of my church is medium sized. We have two services, the early service probably has 100-150 attendees, and the later service probably 300 or so attendees. I'm not comfortable in large "megachurches" that have 10,000 attendees, and I'm also not comfortable in churches that are too small to have all of the programs and opportunities to serve. I like the size of my church. I always try to be as welcoming as possible, and I will greet someone new if I don't recognize them; many members of my church do the same. We have a time during the worship service every week where the pastor asks us to greet each other, and when there is an opportunity to introduce yourself to visitors. We try to be welcoming without being pushy. Just say "Hi" and ask someone's name and that's about it. Even if you aren't a Christian a) no one would ask at the door or indeed at any point, if you were or weren't and b) even if we knew you weren't, you wouldn't be treated any differently or asked to leave or anything like that. If asked, I am happy to tell others about my faith and explain why I am a Christian, but I am also not here to force anything upon anyone. If you wanted to attend my church and were to just come in and observe the service, no one would think badly of you. We really want people like you to come and see what it is about. I hope that answers all of your questions, if you have any more, I would be glad to discuss anything with you. --]''''']''''' 02:48, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
			:] ]
	::Oh. My conception of church is baptism for birth, confirmation for the coming-of-age, wedding for marriage, confession for penance, good works for charity, celebration of the days of the saints in addition to one's birthday, funeral for death, and the mundane routine sacraments and rites performed by clergymen with specified duties, with the hierarchy of the church from the laity to the Pope in Rome. Also, going to pilgrimages to holy lands and worshiping at sacred places. When I think of church, I think of the religious institution that celebrates and cherishes important moments of one's lifetime, from cradle to grave, and be in a place with expensive-looking stained-glass windows and gothic architecture and very tall steeples and columns. The cultural aspect of the Church can be quite attractive. So, what do you do in church? Do you fit church into your schedule? Do you take time off work to observe the Sabbath? Do your children, if you have any children, attend Sunday School at a young age? What do they do in Sunday School? What's the purpose of having a cafeteria inside a church? To reminisce the Lord's last supper or something? How big is the parking lot? Is the church a first-story building or second-story building? How much money does it take to build the church building, and how old is it? What is the hierarchy like in your church? Who is the head of your church group? Do priests live inside the church or do they own their own homes? How many priests are there in your church? Because of Martin Luther, Protestant priests are allowed to get married, right? So, are the priests married or remain single and celibate? Are there any clergywomen in the church? In what direction, how long, and how often do you pray per day? What do you chant during your prayers? Do you chant in Latin or English? When you became a Christian, did you change your non-Christian name into a Christian name? Did you circumcise yourself as a full member of the church? As you can see, I have a lot of questions to ask to a person of faith! ] (]) 04:05, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
	:::WHOA. That's a lot to answer. Let me try each one in turn.
	:::*So, what do you do in church?
	::::*I do a lot of things in Church. The two most important things are Worship and Sunday School. On Sunday mornings I attend a contemporary-style worship service from 9:30-10:30 AM and then follow that with small-group bible study from 11:00-12:00. I'm also a guitarist with the praise band, which provides the music for the contemporary service (the traditional service at my church uses organ and choir for worship). I am also a Church Deacon, which is an position which is elected and ordained by the Church as a whole to serve as the main advisory body for the Church. I also teach children on Wednesday nights, which is also a night for bible study, and serve on various committees as needed.
	:::*Do you fit church into your schedule?
	::::*I tend not to think of it in those terms. God tells us we are to give him our "first fruits" and not our leftovers, so I don't generally think of my time spent at Church as needing to fit into my schedule. I still think I have a long way to go, but I am working all the time towards incorporating more "God time" into my life. The ideal is to make my entire life something which honors God, not just a few hours on Sunday. I readily admit I fall far short of this, but I am working on it.
	:::*Do you take time off work to observe the Sabbath?
	::::*I don't have a job right now that necessitates me to work on Sundays.
	:::*Do your children, if you have any children, attend Sunday School at a young age? What do they do in Sunday School?
	::::*I have two children. They both attend Sunday School (as do I; time spent in small groups learning and studying the bible is more important to what I do in church than even Worship services are). Sunday school is not unlike regular school. They do age-appropriate activities that help them learn what it means to be a Christian. For my youngest, that means a lot of coloring pictures and learning songs and simplified bible stories and making little trinkets I hang on my fridge. For the older one, who can read, that means learning more directly from the bible.
	:::*What's the purpose of having a cafeteria inside a church? To reminisce the Lord's last supper or something?
	::::*The Lord's Supper is part of the worship service itself, we take communion every week in our worship service. We have a kitchen and what we call a "fellowship hall", which is a large open function room. What we use it for is what you use any kitchen-and-function room: to cook food for and hold functions. We have a dinner before our Wednesday night programs, and some nice ladies cook dinner every Wednesday night, we pay five bucks a head and enjoy a good meal. It is just a time to hang out and socialize with other members of the church. They also use the room for things like wedding receptions or other functions and celebrations and stuff like that. It has lots of uses, I'd say there's usually something or another going on there every weekend.
	:::*How big is the parking lot?
	::::*We have two lots (one one on each side of the Church) and they are not adequate to hold everyone. I'd say about 1/4th of the cars need to park on the street or use overflow parking we have in a grass field across the street. Our church is also planning a building expansion in the next several years, and since we don't have any more property, parking is about to get even smaller.
	:::*Is the church a first-story building or second-story building?
	::::*The church building was constructed in phases, and each part of the structure has its own character. The oldest building currently has the fellowship hall (which was the original sanctuary) and about a half dozen classrooms that currently hold the childrens Sunday School. The second building is two stories, the main floor houses adult classrooms and church offices, while the basement houses the youth (6th grade-college age) classrooms. The third section is the current sanctuary, which is a large open sanctuary with three banks of pews on the main floor, a dais at the front which has an area for the choir, a piano, and an organ console, and an elevated balacony in the back which houses several rows of seats as well as all of the media equipment (sound board, projection equipment, computers for running the media).
	:::*How much money does it take to build the church building, and how old is it?
	::::*Oh, to build a building like ours from scratch is a multi-million dollar proposition. We're exploring adding an addition which will increase the size of the facilities by 1/4th again and the cost of the project is 5-10 million dollars. My church is currently debt free, but in the past it paid for its facilities just like you pay for building a house: some money was paid up front, but a lot was provided on loan in the form of mortgage and bonds. If we go forward with the planned addition, then we will probably issue bonds again (church bonds work just like any other bond, see ]). The church congregation itself was founded in 1971, and met for the first several years or so in local elementary school cafeteria, which they rented. By saving money and by taking on debt, the church eventually purchased land and build the three parts of the building over several decades. The most recently completed part was the current Sanctuary, which was completed in 1991. I have only been attending this this church since 2002, and a member since 2003.
	:::*What is the hierarchy like in your church? Who is the head of your church group?
	::::*Baptist churches believe in the autonomy and authority of the congregation itself, so the ultimate authority of the church rests with the entire membership. The church makes all decisions in a form of ] that works almost exactly like a ]. Issues are brought before the church at a Church Meeting, which are scheduled every quarter or called special as needed, and the church votes on things. There is a board of Deacons; Deacons serve as lay leaders of the church, Deacons serve as an advisory board but have no authority to do anything unilaterally. Deacons can advise and give our assent to proposals about church organization or governance, but nothing the Board of deacons do is binding, only what is voted on by the membership in Church meeting is binding. Deacons also serve as a liason between the pastoral team and the rest of the church, we are in communication with a set of families we are assigned to, and provide care for them as needed, praying for them, visiting sick people in the hospital, that kind of stuff. The ministerial staff are employees of the Church. The Senior Pastor is the spiritual head of the church, he is the one who provides the sermon each week, and he is our spiritual leader; however he is something like a CEO: just as a CEO leads a company, he is still responsible to the shareholders, and holds his job only at their pleasure, the Senior Pastor is still employed by the church, and as such, holds his job only at the pleasure of the membership. The rest of the staff supports the Senior Pastor and has defined roles. We have a full-time music minister, who runs the music program at both worship services as well as special programs like the Christmas musical and Easter musical and other concerts throughout the year. We have a full-time Youth Minister, Children's Minister, and Adult Minister, who handle the education (Sunday school and other education programs) for their respective age groups. We also have a clerical staff (a treasurer that handles the money, and two administrative assitants that run the office).
	:::*Do priests live inside the church or do they own their own homes? How many priests are there in your church? Because of Martin Luther, Protestant priests are allowed to get married, right? So, are the priests married or remain single and celibate? Are there any clergywomen in the church?
	::::*We don't call our clergy "Priests", we call them "Ministers". They employees of the church (as I note above) and get a salary like any employee. They own their own homes somewhere else in town; they use their salary to buy their home and pay their own living expenses like anyone else does with a job. As I mentioned, we have positions for 5 ministers in our church: A Senior Pastor, Music Minister, and three education ministers. Currently, our adult education minister position is open, and we're interviewing candidates. All of the ministers we have now are married, and they all have children. Currently we have one woman minister, she is the Children's minister. For a time, the Music minister was also a woman, but currently he's male. I heard that one of the candidates we have interviewed for the open position is a woman.
	:::*In what direction, how long, and how often do you pray per day? What do you chant during your prayers? Do you chant in Latin or English?
	::::*We pray wherever and whenever the need arises. My prayers are conversational, we believe in having a relationship with God, as one would with a parent or other authority figure, and when I pray I talk to God as though I were talking to a confidant or trusted mentor. I don't "chant", really, I talk to God as I would talk to anyone, in a natural conversational tone. At times, I will pray reverentially to God, to let him know how much I love him, but I also pray to God for my spiritual and material needs; to intercede in the lives of people who need his presence, and for guidance in my life so that he will lead me to do as he would wish me to do in all things. I don't pray as often as I should, but I am working towards improving my prayer life.
	:::*When you became a Christian, did you change your non-Christian name into a Christian name? Did you circumcise yourself as a full member of the church?
	::::*I was raised in the Roman Catholic church, but for a time in my late teens and early 20s I fell away and became agnostic. I refound my faith in my early-middle 20s and started attending a Baptist church (not the one I am at now), and when I realized that I was a Christian, I made a ] and was Baptized (I had been Baptized as a child as well, but I came to respect the importance of the Believers Baptism). The baptism itself was the symbolic right-of-passage that indicated I was a Christian (the Baptism didn't make me a Christian, accepting Christ as my savior and dedicating my life to him did; that happened in private between me and God. The profession of faith and the baptism were just the public displays of that inner conversion). For my church, the only two things you need to be considered a full member are the public profession of faith and the baptism. My wife and I moved homes and transfered out membership to a new church; among Baptist churches this just requires a letter from our old church to say that we were members in good standing, and upon reciept of that letter we were accepted as members of the new congregation. Regarding names, there is no expectation that you change your name to anything for any reason. Whatever name you used before you became a Christian you can continue to use afterwards. I am circumsized, but was done so as an infant for purely health-related reasons. My infant circumcision was not religiously motivated in any way.
	:::*As you can see, I have a lot of questions to ask to a person of faith!
	::::I hope I was able to answer them all satisfactorily. If you have any more questions, feel free to ask. --]''''']''''' 04:58, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
			] '''Oversighter changes'''
	:::::Wow. Thanks for the speedy responses, by the way. Sometimes, I wonder where you live, because my second posting on this talk page took place before I went to bed and had some shut-eye at brunchtime. If you live around my time zone, then you either have posted very late in the evening or in the early morning. On the other hand, it is possible that you may live on the Southwestern coast of the United States, since Southern Baptist, as the name implies, is Southern and Baptist with presumably a couple of Northern satellites.
			:] ]
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	:::::Although people are not born Christians but rather become Christians by voluntary choice, I think you may be forgetting that some people may already have a Christian upbringing. They may not be considered ''legitimately'' Christian until their baptism, but they may be fully immersed within the Christian culture by their parents, so that assimilation into the Christian church (their parents' church) becomes easy and smooth as they come of age and can readily accept their place as a member of the church, as their parents probably would have helped them make connections and fellowships among their fellow church members. There is an entirely different situation, if someone of a different culture attends a Christian church as that someone may not be very familiar with the culture's customs, traditions, way of life, praying style, worship style, theology, public activities and community services, and so much more. Try visiting a Taoist temple, and tell me what's your experience like.
			] '''Guideline and policy news'''
	:::::Why does your church do a contemporary-style worship service? Does a traditional-style or contemporary-style reflect the church's theology and statement of faith? I have read about the ] on Misplaced Pages, and it seems that it started in the 19th century in one Christian denomination but later spread to other denominations. This caused some Christians to become more "modernized", but some Christians still wanted to preserve old beliefs, presumably they were afraid that the old beliefs were not Christian or not closer to the teachings of Christ. Since you attend a contemporary-style worship service, does that indicate that your theology is more compatible to modern society than your traditional-style counterparts who seem to be stuck in the 16th century theology and worldview?
			* A ] about removing administrative privileges in specified situations is open for feedback.
			] '''Technical news'''
	:::::Since you go to a Protestant Baptist Church, what are the rooms of the church? You say that there is an office. Would that be considered a modern version of the sacristy in the historic Christian church? But instead of a meeting of priests and a sacristan who runs the sacristy, there would probably be a roomful of administrative assistants, doing administration work. How does your church floorplan compare and contrast to the historic church floorplan? How does your church's ministers compare and contrast to the historic church's intricate hierarchy of clergymen? What are the equivalent roles, and where do the roles differ? Are the ministers trained and educated beforehand in Divinity School? How high of an education level does the church require of the ministers or the senior pastor? Is there an archdeacon in your church, and is the archdeacon the head or spokesperson of all the deacons in public affairs?
			* Progress has started on the ]. This is to address the concerns raised by the community in their ] that requested improvements be made to the tool.
			] '''Arbitration'''
	:::::You may wondering why I am asking all these questions. I am actually asking these questions so I can quickly get an insider's perspective of one kind of church - one congregation of the Southern Baptist denomination of the Christian religion, which presumably takes place somewhere in the West. I live in an area in the United States where I can count 4 churches in my local residential neighborhood - Lutheran, some sort of "Bible Church" (no idea what denomination), Baptist, and an interdenominational community church. Being raised an atheist by atheist parents, I have lived as though there is no god rather than explicitly denying the existence of gods. See ]. I recognize that the library and school and the family are important integrated institutions in the community, and the church is completely absent (in my life). I am not sure if I have been missing out on the community events and whatnot, but sometimes I wonder what it would be like to live a "religious lifestyle" or experience a "religious ceremony" for a change. I ask the questions, not because I am interested in joining a church, but because I want to get an insider's scope on religious life in America, and Christianity seems to be most accessible where I live. My ultimate religious goal in life (aside from my professional goals and life goals) is to pay a visit to one church in each unique denomination in Christianity, excluding the non-denominational churches. I don't think there is much of a point in a non-denominational church besides the most obvious - worshiping God and serving God and the community. Speaking of visiting different kinds of churches, I would probably have to camouflage myself as an "in-group" member. I think I have successfully camouflaged myself as a Christian by recently visiting an interdenominational Christian student organization on campus, just so I can attend their weekly Bible studies. The organization is targeted at Christian students on campus for fellowships and Bible studies. Fortunately, they hold an afternoon Bible study on a Wednesday - the perfect time to stop by after lunch and use the time to gain the insider's perspective/interpretation on Matthew. I think I successfully camouflaged myself by pretending to pray, and based on my knowledge of the Bible and elsewhere, answered their questions based on the text to avoid suspicion. It's a good religious experience, though. But I have a feeling that the Christian life is not for me. ] (]) 02:40, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
			* The proposed decision in the ] case is expected 11 May 2023.
	::::::Hey, no problem. I have no issues answering your questions. Let me try again to get them all:
	::::::*Why does your church do a contemporary-style worship service? Does a traditional-style or contemporary-style reflect the church's theology and statement of faith?
	:::::::*Some people prefer to sing more modern-sounding songs, some prefer more traditional style songs. There are also some differences between the two in terms of organization, but the differences are cosmetic. However, the sermon is essentially the same, and the theology is consistent. God doesn't have a preference for any kind of song (after all, if you think about it, the "Traditional" hymns all date from the middle 19th-middle 20th century; they were "contemporary" at some point.) The messages in the songs of both services are theologically sound and biblically based. One just has essentially a rock band leading the worship, while one has an organ and choir.
	::::::* Since you attend a contemporary-style worship service, does that indicate that your theology is more compatible to modern society than your traditional-style counterparts who seem to be stuck in the 16th century theology and worldview?
	:::::::*God is not confined to any one time, he is in all times. As such, I don't think that theology needs to be confined to one particular historical period. As I said, theologically the message is consistant. It's just a musical difference.
	::::::*Since you go to a Protestant Baptist Church, what are the rooms of the church? You say that there is an office. Would that be considered a modern version of the sacristy in the historic Christian church? But instead of a meeting of priests and a sacristan who runs the sacristy, there would probably be a roomful of administrative assistants, doing administration work. How does your church floorplan compare and contrast to the historic church floorplan?
	:::::::*The church floorplan is fairly typical for an American Christian church. Even the Catholic church I grew up in had the same basic organization; there was an education building, there was a sanctuary, a function room, office and clerical staff (My aunt, until she retired about 5 years ago, was the administrative assistant/secretary for the Catholic church I attended). I think I've fairly well described the floor plan above, so I won't go into it again. If you have specific questions or need clarification, let me know what you want to know.
	::::::* How does your church's ministers compare and contrast to the historic church's intricate hierarchy of clergymen? What are the equivalent roles, and where do the roles differ? Are the ministers trained and educated beforehand in Divinity School? How high of an education level does the church require of the ministers or the senior pastor? Is there an archdeacon in your church, and is the archdeacon the head or spokesperson of all the deacons in public affairs?
	:::::::*The church has no heirarchy. Again, I answered this mostly above. Southern baptist churches are run via ]. The congration itself is at the top of the organization chart. The Senior Pastor fills a similar role as Catholic Priest would, he prepares the sermon and officiates the worship service, but rather than being appointed to the church from the local diocese, he is an employee of the church. He also has an administrative role as he is the manager of the other staff, and has the responsibility for the overall spiritual leadership of the church. All of the ministers in the church had to have attended seminary, and the Senior Pastor is required to have a Doctor of Divinity degree. The other ministers have other certifications from seminary, I don't know the specifics, but they all had to have attended a seminary and received religious training. They all also have additional training in their areas of specialty; the music minister is a trained musician. I know our children's minister had been an elementary school teacher before she went back to seminary, so she is trained for her role. There is no "archdeacon". The deacon board elects its own officers annually, so there is a Chair of the Board of Deacons, who has some special roles in the church leadership. There is also a board of trustees that are elected for life from the church. The trustees are empowered to represent the church officially; for example to sign promisory notes for the church. Public affairs at the church is handled by a Communications Commitee. Everything is done by committees. Committee members are elected to serve for three year terms, with 1/3 of each committee expireing each year. We have something like 34 committees that handles everything from building and grounds maintenance to communications to sound and light to IT/networking to financial management.
	:::::::I'd be glad to answer any more questions you have! --]''''']''''' 03:24, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
	::::::::Wow. And there are only less than 500 people in your church and so many committees and the members of the committees are elected and expected to serve till the end of their terms before retiring and allowing some other people to join the church. That would only imply that EVERYONE in the church serves the church, right? Are there any people in your church who does not participate in church activities? Are there anybody in your church who has blasphemed, has become a heretic, or has become an apostate in your church? If so, how did the church deal with these types of issues? I'm sure that the church do not burn heretics at the stake, do they? That would be so medieval! How does the church address social ills and issues in the surrounding neighborhood? How does the church handle highly controversial and contentious topics?
			] '''Miscellaneous'''
	::::::::Tell me more about you became a "Christian". First of all, wouldn't it be correct to say that you were really baptized twice? Once by the Roman Catholic church as an infant, and once by the Baptist church as an adult. Is there any reason why the Baptist church would not accept your baptized status? Did they try to proselytize you that their form of baptism was better than infant baptism or christening or you wouldn't be counted as a "true Christian", or did you believe that on your own accord? I thought it was the older churches - Roman Catholic and Orthodox - that wouldn't accept Protestants due to their alleged heretical beliefs, not the other way around. In the Jewish community, Orthodox Jews would not accept Reform Jews as part of the church, unless they go through the procedure of a formal conversion. The reverse, however, is possible. I suppose it's different for Christians, huh? I mean, even if you did believe in "Believer's Baptism", you could have just used your already baptized status in the past as baptism for the present, if you get what I mean. That way, you don't have to do the same process again. Adult baptisms are not like infant baptisms, since instead of gentle sprinkling on the noggin, you have to be dunked in water and have faith on the baptist that he or she is not going to drown you or have some other malicious intention secretly. :P You said that you were raised Roman Catholic and became agnostic and then later visited a Baptist church. Why Baptist? Why not Roman Catholic? Even if you did not believe or accept orthodox Roman Catholic teachings, then wouldn't you still attend Mass to be with family? Or was your agnosticism such a serious problem for you and the church that the church thought it was best to excommunicate you for your heresy, which led you to become agnostic? Since you were presumably a "spiritual but not religious" type of person in your '20s, you probably wanted to seek a new church life, so you visited a local Baptist church and hoped to get accepted in a new and more welcoming community that would accept you for your beliefs? Was that what happened?
			* ] through May 19. The final plan will be published in July 2023.
			----
	::::::::You said that you have been a member since 2003, and you also said that you fall short of what God expects of you, which is to give more "God-time" to him and not to your other stuff. WTF? Don't you realize that you have spent like about a decade in the church and you still have not fulfilled God's requirement of giving all your time to the church? Then again, I suppose you are probably a newbie in the church. Also, as an adult convert, you probably have a harder time to adjust to the Baptist Christian life than your much younger counterparts, who presumably could live the Baptist Christian life naturally and easily since they were born as perfect, little Christians and you were not. Not to sound offensive or anything like that, but I think being raised a proper Christian since birth is a necessary requirement for being a "true Southern Baptist Convention Christian".
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			== General Question / Curiosity ==
	::::::::I can't think of any more questions. So, thanks for devoting part of your time to answer my questions. I really appreciate it. :) ] (]) 00:47, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
			Hi there, Jayron. Seeing how you have taken some interest in the current RM over at ] I figured I would pose a question to you, being an administrator. I'm curious to know where the line of ] is. There were a few posts that made me raise an eyebrow.
	:::::::::No problem. I'll do my best to answer your questions as best I can.
	:::::::::*Wow. And there are only less than 500 people in your church and so many committees and the members of the committees are elected and expected to serve till the end of their terms before retiring and allowing some other people to join the church. That would only imply that EVERYONE in the church serves the church, right? Are there any people in your church who does not participate in church activities?
	::::::::::*Well, the expectation is that everyone serves. In practice, many jobs and committees are filled by the same people. Each committee has about 6 people on it (some have 9 some have 3), which means there are something like 200 committee positions to fill. In practice, most people who serve on one committee end up serving on several, and do other jobs around the church as well. But there are a LOT of opportunities to serve. There are Sunday morning and wednesday night teaching positions, music groups; lots of opportunities. We say that we believe in '''doing''' church, that is we try to have a service mentality, and that can mean serving in the greater community, or serving in the church, but everyone has a set of skills that God can use, and the trick is finding where those skills match with needed jobs. Everyone, unfortunately doesn't serve, some people are fairly passive, but what you find is that people who don't do anything end up falling away eventually. If you don't get plugged into an activity or some form of meaningful service, if all you do is come on Sundays to worship, well, you eventually have no reason to come anymore. That's my perspective anyways.
	:::::::::*Are there anybody in your church who has blasphemed, has become a heretic, or has become an apostate in your church? If so, how did the church deal with these types of issues? I'm sure that the church do not burn heretics at the stake, do they? That would be so medieval! How does the church address social ills and issues in the surrounding neighborhood? How does the church handle highly controversial and contentious topics?
	::::::::::*That's a good question. I think you'll find a diversity of opinions in the church, but when I look to scripture, I find that Christ spends a lot of his teaching instructing people to take care of their own sin, and not worry so hard about trying to correct other's sin: provides excellent guidance: It is not my job as a Christian to rebuke others for their sin. God rebukes us for our sin through the Holy Spirit, not me. So my job is to introduce people to God. God will take care of the rest. And if God doesn't rebuke them, then who would I be to rebuke them? It's not my business or my job to rebuke others for their sin, because I have my own sin, and your sins are not worse than my sins. As far as "heresy" goes, we have a pretty simple theology. Confess your sins to God, repent (turn away from) your sins, and follow the example of Jesus in the scriptures. Everything else is what Paul calls "disputable matters" in , and later when he says "Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister." The more you read the New Testament, you understand that it isn't a list of rules to follow and not break. It is a way to look at living your life, and a perspective to take on how to treat other people. The church addresses social ills by trying to be a positive force in the world. We try to provide for the poor and disadvantaged. We have several ministries that do that: We have a ministry that provides home repairs and free appliances for people that need it. We have a ministry that does disaster relief, we sent teams to Gulfport Mississippi after Katrina, and for 2-3 years after, and I have a feeling they'll be going back soon. We have lots of others too: Christs example tells us to serve the poor, the sick, and the disadvantaged, and we try to do that.
	:::::::::*Tell me more about you became a "Christian". First of all, wouldn't it be correct to say that you were really baptized twice? Once by the Roman Catholic church as an infant, and once by the Baptist church as an adult. Is there any reason why the Baptist church would not accept your baptized status? Did they try to proselytize you that their form of baptism was better than infant baptism or christening or you wouldn't be counted as a "true Christian", or did you believe that on your own accord?
	::::::::::*Yes, I was baptized twice. The Baptists believe in the Believer's Baptism as an outward sign of one's voluntary acceptance of Christ as one's leader in life. Infants lack the mental capacity to believe in that way, so Baptists don't Baptize until a person has the capacity to do so of their own free will. The way it was put to me when I was baptized as an adult was that they weren't invalidating my Catholic upbringing: that obviously had an effect on my growth as a Christian, and therefore it was worthwhile, including my infant baptism. The adult baptism was a validation of all of that; and it was a choice I made of my own free will. I should also say that you can attend in and participate in most of the activities of a Baptist church without being a ''member'' of the Church: Adult baptism is required to be in a leadership position, but one can go to worship and take Sunday School without being a member. My father-in-law had been a regular attendee of a Baptist church for 20 years, and was in his 50s when he had his adult baptism. He had been a faithful servant, but wasn't moved to do so, as he had been baptized as an infant. When he was tapped for a leadership position, he needed to get it done to serve in that position, so he did. But he was always a faithful attendee of the church, and was always a Christian. I decided to be baptized of my own accord, because I had grown very close to the church I was attending, and wanted to formalize my connection to them.
	:::::::::*You said that you were raised Roman Catholic and became agnostic and then later visited a Baptist church. Why Baptist? Why not Roman Catholic? Even if you did not believe or accept orthodox Roman Catholic teachings, then wouldn't you still attend Mass to be with family? Or was your agnosticism such a serious problem for you and the church that the church thought it was best to excommunicate you for your heresy, which led you to become agnostic? Since you were presumably a "spiritual but not religious" type of person in your '20s, you probably wanted to seek a new church life, so you visited a local Baptist church and hoped to get accepted in a new and more welcoming community that would accept you for your beliefs? Was that what happened?
	::::::::::*That's a very hard question. I wasn't even one of those "spiritual but not religious" types. It just wasn't part of my life either way. What happened is that I began to feel the presence of God in my life. It is hard to describe; the best way I can say is that it is like trying to describe colors to someone who was born blind. I had been born blind, then suddenly could see colors. To people who are blind, describing colors seems incomprehensible to them. I have a hard time saying how that happens. I can only say that I felt God working in my life: a series of events slowly led me to believe that he was working in my life, and I had no reasonable explanation other than that. As far as finding a church, my wife had been raised in Protestant churches, but no one specific denomination: her parents' moved a lot when she was young, so she had been part of Lutheran and Episcopalian and Methodist and Baptist churches: her parents would try them all out in each city and find the one that worked for them. SO that's what we did, and we found a Baptist church that we felt moved to attend and eventually join.
	:::::::::*You said that you have been a member since 2003, and you also said that you fall short of what God expects of you, which is to give more "God-time" to him and not to your other stuff. WTF? Don't you realize that you have spent like about a decade in the church and you still have not fulfilled God's requirement of giving all your time to the church? Then again, I suppose you are probably a newbie in the church. Also, as an adult convert, you probably have a harder time to adjust to the Baptist Christian life than your much younger counterparts, who presumably could live the Baptist Christian life naturally and easily since they were born as perfect, little Christians and you were not. Not to sound offensive or anything like that, but I think being raised a proper Christian since birth is a necessary requirement for being a "true Southern Baptist Convention Christian".
	::::::::::*Part of being a Christian is realizing that it is a journey, and not a destination. One phrase I have heard that fits it well is "Being a Christian doesn't make me sinless, but it does make me try to sin less." It is a constant striving for personal improvement and a constant striving for becoming closer to God and a constant striving to serve him better and more all the time. You never "get there", and if you ever feel like you've "gotten there", it probably means you weren't going to the right place in teh first place. And it has nothing to do with being raised in the specific church. By all accounts, I have one of the highest leadership positions in the Church: I'm a deacon, and I do so not because I am perfect, but because being a deacon makes me want to be ''closer'' to perfect than I am. The other thing that I've heard said is "The closer you are to God, the farther you realize you truly are from him" That isn't about self-loathing, however, just a constant reminder that continuous improvement is always the goal. Just as in other aspects of life, continuous improvement at one's job, or with one's family, or in one's education is the only way to live; continuous improvement with my relationship with God is the only way to be a Christian. Experience tells me also that people ''born'' into the faith have a harder time, because they don't choose it of their own accord. I know many people who are faithful Christians, who are among the most upstanding members of the church, and who have children who turn away from the faith. It happens, because everyone still has to choose the lifestyle. , known as the ] explains it well: The message of Jesus is given freely for all; however not all of those that receive the message will take it up voluntarily, even those who had the message their whole lives. It doesn't mean we don't keep trying to spread the message, but we can't ''make'' people Christians. They have to choose it for themselves.
	:::::::::Well, I hope I was able to answer all of your questions in this round. Always glad to talk about my faith with anyone that asks! As always, I am open to talk about anything you'd like. --]''''']''''' 03:57, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
			* {{diff2|1152811370|Example 1}}
	::::::::::Whoa... very interesting. Hmmm... the quote you used, "Being a Christian doesn't make me sinless, but it does make me try to sin less," reminds me of an article that I read on Misplaced Pages about ]. The whole article can be summed up by this adage, "The more you know, the more you realize you don't know - the less you know, the more you think you know." In other words, competent people tend to think less of themselves, because they can recognize their weaknesses, whereas incompetent people tend to think too highly of themselves, because they cannot see their weaknesses, but once they see their weaknesses, they try to correct it and admit their errors. That has happened to me many times that I accept it's part of human nature. In your case, as a Christian, you probably recognize your failures, so that does not make you sinless. However, because you recognize your weaknesses, you try to sin less and be more productive in society.
			* {{diff2|1152810154|Example 2}}
			* {{diff2|1152810022|Example 3}}
			I will say that I made a {{diff2|1152642403|similar post}} over on ], but it's the language of the other posts that made me most interested as to where the line was between notification to interested parties and canvasing with the intention of influencing an outcome. Given the current state of the discussion on the RM, I figured this would be worth questioning.
	::::::::::] is a Fundamentalist Christian campus preacher who once arrived on my college campus. Some students found him entertaining and laughed at him. I thought he should be ashamed of himself for acting so bigoted. On his shirt he wore two pins "No homo" and "No porno". I did not entertain his public mantras against what he perceived to be "sexual sins". Every time I saw him, I looked the other way and ignored that guy as if he did not exist. I do not think that Christians like Micah Armstrong should call themselves "Christians", do you? If you see someone so hateful and so bigoted, then wouldn't you care less about them? I mean, you would give them basic human rights, since they are human beings and the law demands it, but above that, you wouldn't give them any respect, unless they sincerely apologize for what they have said, would you? Why do some Christians behave like utter bigots? I mean, I would not care if a person believes that homosexuality is a "sin". As long as that person does not shove that belief into someone else, I am fine with it. Besides, like you said, being a Christian is a voluntary, personal decision and commitment. If a person wants to make that commitment to God, including not lying with a person of the same sex, then that is that person's choice. That person cannot thrust the belief in God or the disapproval of homosexual behavior on others.
			Please don't take this inquiry as anything other than a general curiosity. I actually !voted in favor of the RM and I think it's a good idea, so I'm certainly not attempting to influence in the other direction. Thanks, <span style="font-family:Gadugi;font-size:90%;border-radius:0em 1em;padding: 0.05em 0.9em;background:#3160B5;">] ]</span> 00:00, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
	::::::::::Then, there are Christians like you who make the Christian life so attractive - life of society, commitment, love, respect, humility, leadership, charity, and all things good. *dreamy sigh* You must be lucky to attend a church with so many humanitarian activities going on, and not ''enough'' people to help out! If those humanitarian activities occur on a weekend for a few hours, and I live next to a church like yours, I would love to volunteer in the ministries, even though I am a non-Christian. Does your church allow non-Christians to volunteer in the ministries or perform community service for the neighborhood or within the church itself? Hmmm... I may not really share the beliefs or anything, but doing community service may be one way I can get involved in my neighborhood (also look good on my professional resume)! I have volunteered before at mostly nonreligious organizations, though there was one time recently when I actually volunteered for the ecumenical Christian ministry ]. The group actually taught me how to paint, and I learned a painting skill while I was at it. ] (]) 00:17, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
			:I think that the wording of those notices could be taken as ''non-neutral''. They should really only be worded as "There's a discussion you may be interested in" and that's about it. --]] 09:17, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
			::This is helpful: ]. ]<sup> ]&#124;]</sup> 14:33, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
			== Criticism of content, not the contributor ==
	:::::::::::Because the Jesus tells me so, I don't make the sins of others my business, even to the point of not trying to identify the sins of others. My job is only to introduce others to God. It is between God and the individual believer what he convicts them of. Furthermore, Jesus spends his ministry a) helping the poor and disadvantaged and b) bringing others to the faith and b) dealing with the excesses within the faith which are keeping people from a right relationship with God. Jesus is silent on homosexuality; and quite frankly I think he would be disgusted with how Christians treat people on that regard. As a Christian, I model my life after Jesus the best I can. And yes, you would be welcome in our congregation to participate in any activities you wish. --]''''']''''' 01:57, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
			Jayron32, in order to not keep the discussion at ] on topic, I respond to here. Again, I'm sorry that you felt personally attacked, but according to ], I still disagree with your accusation that my explicit criticism of the ''proposed exclusion'' of mention of Native American removal and assimilation from the caption about US territorial expansion as conforming with narratives of denial, constitutes an attack against ''you personally''. I clearly commented on the content, not on the contributor.
	Interesting exchange of information this is. I am not a Christian, though I grew up attending church. Both as an atheist adult and a church-going child, I have attended services in many Christian denominations, as well as Jewish synagogues, all for a variety of reasons. In none of them did I have to disguise myself in any way or pretend to any belief I did not have. When it was obvious to those around me (as when in a synagogue) I had no idea what to do or when to do it, the people around me would hand me the appropriate texts, open to the appropriate page, and point out the current readings or hymns/songs. You can pray in any posture from kneeling with a bowed head and closed eyes, hands in the "palms together, fingers at the chin" position to staring around the room while seated, eyes wide open. No one will either comment or care. As long as you are quiet during the quiet times, and not flagrantly disrespectful, you will be left with your own thoughts. If you want to talk with adherents before or after the service/gathering, anyone in the group will engage you and, if not feeling competent to respond to your queries, will direct you to someone who will be.
			I know you're my colleague and not my enemy, and that's why I want to clear up this misunderstanding. ] (]) 15:58, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
	If you want to slip into the back row and slip out again before anyone has an opportunity to speak to you, there is no problem in doing so; just close the doors quietly behind you. (Oh, yes, on a lighter note, while you are not required to put anything into the offertory plate when it passes where you are seated, it is really bad manners to take anything out -except by way of change for a large bill.) ] (]) 03:21, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
	:Indeed on the "passing the plate" thing. My wife and I donate by electronic transfer, so we never put anything in the plate. Lots of people do that, so it wouldn't ever stand out if you didn't either yourself. No one knows the difference between "I give electronically" and "I'd rather not give", so no one pays any attention. --]''''']''''' 03:59, 31 August 2012 (UTC)		:We're cool. Apology accepted; though be careful of ascribing motive where you don't know it. Carefully choosing your phrasing doesn't change the nature of the attack; and the issue wasn't that you called me a name, it's that you accused me of engaging in an action (denialism) that I was not. Playing games with the words doesn't change how the commentary lands. If you want to say it wasn't a personal attack, fine. But it was rude, incivil, and a clear violation of ] to say that I was engaging in things I had not done. Still, I don't want to belabor this anymore than it has, your apology is accepted, no hard feelings, I am aware that we both are trying to improve the article in question. Carry on. --]] 16:07, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
			== Request to have a look at my ANI request ==
	== Notice ==
	Hello. There is currently a discussion at ] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is ]. <!--Template:ANI-notice--> Thank you. ] (]) 17:28, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
			Hello. I have chose you randomly to ask you to have a look at my ANI request made days ago: ]. ] (]) 19:10, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
	== ITN ==
			:Then you have disqualified me from commenting. I have a personal policy that I don't respond to personal requests to administrate. You'll have to wait for someone else. --]] 11:35, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
			::(] comment) - I have to say, that is a rather interesting self-policy. I tend to try to be a nice person and often will at least go look if someone leaves a note on my talk page. But the more I think about your policy, the more I like it. : ) - <b>]</b> 15:16, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
			:::I'll be ''helpful'' all the time if it doesn't involve my role as an admin. Like, if you say "Hey, I wrote this bit here, can you read it over and clean it up a bit" or "Hey, I'm trying to find sources on this, but am running into some trouble, can you help a but", I will almost ''always'' pitch in. There's something kinda dirty about hand-selecting the judge-jury-and-executioner you want to deal with your enemies, however, and I'll have no part of that. --]] 15:18, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
			:::::I understand. And I think it's a fair position on ]. The more I think about it, the more it grows on me. That said, myself, I think I'll still wobble towards helping. But you've really given me some food for thought. - <b>]</b> 15:50, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
			::::I chose you ''randomly''... ] (]) 15:48, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
			:::::And yet, I'm still not going to act on your request. Vaya con dios. --]] 15:50, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
			== Ren (British musician) ==
	Hi! Two pieces of advice:<p>1. Please note that we italicize the parentheses in "''(pictured)''".<p>2. I assume that you uploaded a smaller version of the image under a different name (instead of uploading the full-resolution version under its Commons name) because of a slow connection speed. In such a circumstance, a better solution is to preview a 100x100px transclusion and use the resultant thumbnail. That way, the download and upload will be even faster, ''and'' there will be no extra generation loss (because the exact 100x100px file will appear on the main page, with no further scaling).<p>Thanks! —] 19:53, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
	:You're allowed to fix my mistakes. I won't mind. Thanks for the tips, and I will try to remmeber to those tips for next time. --]''''']''''' 19:55, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
			Thank you for removing the Notability template. I was almost through checking that all the citations were in order when half of the article was removed and some of the citations we had just timestamped. ] (]) 02:23, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
	== Clarification needed ==
			:I can't put citations for the remaining items that need them without it essentially being a revert. They deleted the birth registry citation, the the YouTube community page citation where Ren writes the month and day of his birth, all of the Justin Hawkins YouTube Interview timestamped citations from the Early life section. I was under the impression they were okay. was I wrong? ] (]) 08:52, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
	Hello again! Please see ]. (As reflected in the messages there, I initially believed that BorgQueen initiated the straw poll and requested this clarification from her.) Thanks! —] 23:31, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
			:I agree with the discography change. ] (]) 09:05, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
			:I moved these comments to the talk page ] (]) 09:17, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
			:After I reworked the Trick the Fox section based on the Justin Hawkins Interview you added I started working on adding all the timestamps to the citations and making sure the rest of the article was properly cited. I had done a large percentage of it and had to take a break.
			:23:20 12 May 2023 is when Drmies started editing and removing several areas. Including the YouTube timestamped references along with secondary references and information from the infobox. You can see the comments made.
			:You will need to select to view the last 100 edits
			:I agree with what was done to the Discography.
			:Mackey79 and I were already talking about it in the Discography section @ 19:36, 12 May 2023
			:I wasn't sure exactly what to do about the youtube citations being removed or what I needed to do differently about sourcing The Big Push section they completely removed saying there were no secondary sources for the claims. I had two sources at the end. That is when I made that post to you. That is also why I asked if there was a tutorial on citation placement.
			:I waited a bit but decided to work on it by myself and added additional sources, removed a line, and added another. I added info back to the infobox with citations. and recited the removed YouTube citations with this in the edit box.  Citation from Justin Howkins' Interview with Ren. This is information Ren would be reasonably expected to know)
			:21:54, 14 May 2023‎ Drmies started editing again.
			:you can see the comments (and why I said what I did about the instruments he plays and occupations)
			:I used a different secondary source because the one I used prior to that didn't state all of the things he was questioning and the new source did.
			:Then Drmies posted on my profiles talk section. You can look rather than me going into detail. I
			:I wanted to answer here instead of the Ren talk page so it didn't make things worse and have the talk page be something it shouldn't.
			:Sorry if you were blindsided. I don't think Drmies is reading the talk page anyway. I'm up early today because my nurse came early. They had an appointment. ] (]) 18:13, 16 May 2023 (UTC)
			::So I don't have a lot of insight into specifically ''why'' Drmies did what they did, so you'll need to ask them directly, but all I can say is that having a source (like the Hawkins interview) is a ''necessary'' condition to add something, but it is not ''sufficient''. Just because something has a source doesn't mean that it fits in the article (it could be irrelevant or trivial or inaccurate or badly written or any number of other issues that are too many to all list here) and just having a source doesn't prevent something from being removed for an issue that is unrelated to verifiability. If you want specific reasons why Drmies removed some specific text, however, you'll need to ask them. --]] 18:17, 16 May 2023 (UTC)
			:::I'm not asking for you to get involved just letting you know what is going on. I'm obviously not cut out for this. Thank you ] (]) 18:27, 16 May 2023 (UTC)
			== Vyyyrhastar: ==
	==Ahmad Shah Massoud==
	Thank you Jayron, it was indeed him. ] (]) 19:10, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
	:I am but here to serve. --]''''']''''' 19:11, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
			We need a in addition to , for things like ] (]) 03:43, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
	== WikiCup 2012 August newsletter ==
			== Hey ==
	]
	The final is upon us! We are down to our final 8. A massive 573 was our lowest qualifying score; this is higher than the 150 points needed last year and the 430 needed in 2010. Even in 2009, when points were acquired for mainspace edit count in addition to audited content, 417 points secured a place. That leaves this year's WikiCup, by one measure at least, our most competitive ever. Our finalists, ordered by round 4 score, are:
	#{{Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Participant3|Grapple X}} once again finishes the round in first place, leading Pool B. Grapple X writes articles about television, and especially ''The X-Files'' and ''Millenium'', with good articles making up the bulk of the score.
	#{{Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Participant3|Miyagawa}} led Pool A this round. Fourth-place finalist last year, Miyagawa writes on a variety of topics, and has reached the final primarily off the back of his massive number of did you knows.
	#{{Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Participant3|Ruby2010}} was second in Pool B. Ruby2010 writes primarily on television and film, and scores primarily from good articles.
	#{{Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Participant3|Casliber}} finished third in Pool B. Casliber is something of a WikiCup veteran, having finished sixth in 2011 and fourth in 2010. Casliber writes on the natural sciences, including ornithology, botany and astronomy. Over half of Casliber's points this round were bonus points from the high-importance articles he has worked on.
	#{{Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Participant3|Cwmhiraeth}} came second in Pool A. Also writing on biology, especially marine biology, Cwmhiraeth received 390 points for one featured article (]) and one good article (]), topping up with a large number of did you knows.
	#{{Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Participant3|Muboshgu}} was third in Pool A. Muboshgu writes primarily on baseball, and this round saw Muboshgu's first featured article, ], promoted on its fourth attempt at FAC.
	#{{Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Participant3|Dana boomer}} was fourth in Pool A. She writes on a variety of topics, including horses, but this round also saw the high-importance ] reach featured article status.
	#{{Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Participant3|Sasata}} is another WikiCup veteran, having been a finalist in 2009 and 2010. He writes mostly on mycology.
			Jayron32, This is a new editor and this IP address is shared by hundreds of people, what is with that long list of names and dates on the method of loci article? Should not it be turned into a clickable link] (])anany ] (]) 15:11, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
	However, we must also say goodbye to the eight who did not make the final, having fallen at the last hurdle: {{Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Participant3|GreatOrangePumpkin}}, {{Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Participant3|Ealdgyth}}, {{Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Participant3|Calvin999}}, {{Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Participant3|Piotrus}}, {{Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Participant3|Toa Nidhiki05}}, {{Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Participant3|12george1}}, {{Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Participant3|The Bushranger}} and {{Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Participant3|1111tomica}}. We hope to see you all next year.
			:Possibly, but the names serve a purpose. The names are a ] showing which ] one can find the original information in. When you ''remove'' those sources (no matter how they are formatted), that makes it impossible for anyone to know what the sources were. Also, replacing those sources with personal commentary is not useful. --]] 15:13, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
			::I understand now. I apologize for the trouble I have caused, I will make sure to remember this in the future. Thank you. ] (]) 15:18, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
			:::Hello, I am a ]. There is a link but the url rotted; I have redirected note 2 to the correct content. &nbsp; &ndash;] (]) 16:32, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
			== Hey, I apologize. I hope we're good. ==
	On the subject of next year, a discussion has been opened ]. Come and have your say about the competition, and how you'd like it to run in the future. This brainstorming will go on for some time before more focused discussions/polls are opened. As ever, if you are concerned that your nomination—whether it is at good article candidates, a featured process, or anywhere else—will not receive the necessary reviews, please list it on ]. Questions are welcome on ], and the judges are reachable on their talk pages or by email. Good luck! <small>If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from ].</small> ] (] • ]) and ] (] • ]) 00:16, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
	<!-- EdwardsBot 0339 -->
			I wholeheartedly apologize for making it come off as if I was accusing you of anything or for anything I said where it came off as if I was putting words in your mouth or anything. Was never my intention~ I'm just generally annoyed by the amount of controversy lately that these version history articles have created, generally by the same general group of editors who would much rather have articles deleted rather than improved, where in most cases, Misplaced Pages policy recommends deletion only as a last resort, if articles can't be improved to no longer violate policy. I also just generally disagree with the ways in which WP:CHANGELOG have been interpreted, mainly to use a very loose definition of what exhaustive means, but that's why i originally created the proposal. I just generally don't understand why tables create so much controversy but thats a debate I don't want to have on your talk page. I just wanted to genuinely say that I'm sorry. :( I am very argumentative due to brain chemistry stuff, and sometimes it makes me argue irrationally. I try to control it but it's just really hard, sadly. But yeah I genuinely do hope that we're okay. - ] (] · ]) 17:40, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
	== RfA ==
			:Yeah, we're fine. I recognize the investment you've made in this topic, and I want to make clear I'm not disagreeing with you on most points just to be antagonistic. I generally find myself in the middle ground on this matter; I think Misplaced Pages covering the history of important software is fine, but I also think that the content of these articles goes too far into the weeds, and could stand for better narrative flow. I think the entire area could stand for a wider amount of voices (which I was trying to provide) and that the same people ''on both sides'' could stand to let it rest for a bit.--]] 17:51, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
			== St. Louis, Missouri - Union or Confedrate? ==
	Hi Jayron. I don't think Keelan717 is anything other than a very new, and possibly very young user. He was asking on IRC how to transclude his RfB. Nevertheless, after checking recent edits and following up on , there may be some SPI on the way. ] (]) 15:38, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
	:Whatever. His reason for being a pain isn't at issue. He's going to stop being a pain, or he's going to stop being at Misplaced Pages. --]''''']''''' 15:46, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
			In the ''Little House on the Prairie'' season 4 episode ], a lawyer from St Louis had a box containing Confederate money. https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#St._Louis,_Missouri_-_Union_or_Confedrate? ] (]) 21:06, 21 May 2023 (UTC)
	==USRD Summer 2012 Newsletter==
			:I have no interest carrying on ref desk threads on my user talk page. --]] 16:09, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
	{| width="80%" align="center" style="border: 1px black solid; padding: 0em; border-collapse:collapse"
	|- valign="middle" style="background-color: #006B54; color:white"
	|colspan=3|<div align="center"><imagemap>
	File:USRD_Newsletter_header.svg|400px
	default ]
	desc none
	</imagemap></div>
	|-
	|colspan=3 style="background-color:#FCD116; text-align:center; font-weight:bold; border-bottom: 1px black solid"| Volume&nbsp;5, Issue&nbsp;3&nbsp;• Summer 2012&nbsp;• ]
	|- style="vertical-align: top;"
	|
	;<big>Departments</big>
	*]
	*]
	|
	;<big>Features</big>
	*]
	*]
	*]
	*]
	|
	;<big>State and national updates</big>
	*]
	*] for AK, CA, DE, GA, GU, LA, MO, MT, ND, OK, and TX
	|-
	| colspan=3 style="background-color: #FCD116; text-align:center; font-weight:bold; border-top:1px black dotted;" | ] • ] • ] • ]: ]
	|}
	:—<span style="background:#006B54; padding:2px;">''']&nbsp;]'''</span> 22:57, 2 September 2012 (UTC)</small>
	== good removal re: amish tools ==		== A small, humble request ==
			Hello Jayron32. About 6 million years ago, I spent hours upon untold, unending hours arguing my head off in a fever swamp discussion about whether or not every single school in the US should have its own Misplaced Pages article. That permanently warped my brain. I can't read those fever swamp threads anymore. My soul is sucked into a negative vortex and the universe collapses into a mote in a used car salesman's eye. So just now I posted on that d*mn Fox News thread, but I have no idea where my post should have gone.... you seem to know what's going on... as a tiny favor... pretty please... could you refactor it for me? Thanks.&nbsp;&sect;&nbsp;] (]&#124;]) 12:13, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
	Does our 76.16.47.115 friend need some "administrative support" to help cure his RefDesk posting habit? ] (]) 03:36, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
	:I have no problem providing that support. I am amply armed for that eventuality. --]''''']''''' 03:37, 3 September 2012 (UTC)		:{{done}} --]] 16:15, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
			* Thank you...!&nbsp;&sect;&nbsp;] (]&#124;]) 21:34, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
			== Notices ==
	== '''The Olive Branch''': A Dispute Resolution Newsletter (Issue #1) ==
			I have a question for you. Is there any reason why when it is posted on someone’s talk page about a notice (i.e. AnI and the such) that it doesn’t link to the actual conversation so that users do not need to scroll through all of the discussions to find the one they are listed at? I’ve noticed the topic does not always include the user name. I’ve noticed this at other boards as well. ] (]) 16:57, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
	Welcome to the first edition of ''The Olive Branch''. This will be a place to semi-regularly update editors active in ] (DR) about some of the most important issues, advances, and challenges in the area. You were delivered this update because you are ], but if you would prefer not to receive any future mailing, just add your name to ].
			:{{tl|ANI-notice}} does contain fields to link to the exact topic name on ANI. Sometimes, people don't fill it in. The reason is behavioral, and not technical, and there's nothing we can really do about it, we can't force people to fill in that field of the template, or to link to the correct conversation if they choose to post a notice by manually typing it out. Simply put, people can do it, people should do it, but we really have no way to make people do it. --]] 17:02, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
	]
	In this issue:
	* '''Background''': A brief overview of the DR ecosystem.
	* '''Research''': The most recent DR data
	* '''Survey results''': Highlights from Steven Zhang's April 2012 survey
	* '''Activity analysis''': Where DR happened, broken down by the top DR forums
	* '''DR Noticeboard comparison''': How the newest DR forum has progressed between May and August
	* '''Discussion update''': Checking up on the Wikiquette Assistance close debate
	* '''Proposal''': It's time to close the ]. Agree or disagree?
	<big><center>]</center></big>
			== https://jacobin.com/2022/02/maidan-protests-neo-nazis-russia-nato-crimea ==
	--''The Olive Branch'' 19:09, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
	<!-- EdwardsBot 0345 -->
			Remove your ban of discussion about this or I will report you to the site moderators and have them remove your ban. I do not need your permission to defend Jacobin and Misplaced Pages is not censored. ] (]) 12:41, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
	== Is this a joke? ==
			:I would strongly advise you to not report anyone (read ]), and ]. ] (]) 12:47, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
			::How dare you insult me by calling me incompetent? ] (]) 13:03, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
			:::I am warning you why a report is a bad idea when someone displays as much ] as you are (pointed out by a number of users, not just me). The RFC was closed as it asked for a ruling on a point no one but you made. ] (]) 13:11, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
			*Cool story, bro. --]] 14:52, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
			==Notice of noticeboard discussion==
	I'm assuming this is your form of ? Everyone knows I don't do homework. ] (]) 03:59, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
			] There is currently a discussion at ] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.<!--Template:Discussion notice--><!--Template:AN-notice--> ] (]) 21:50, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
	:I do not have any sense of humor that I am aware of. --]''''']''''' 04:00, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
	::Well, it's not your fault. It's sort of the way my brain works. I wake up in the morning with questions like that. I have to suppress it 90% of the time. ] (]) 04:02, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
	:::We all have voices in our head. Sometimes they tell us bad things. Naughty things. Things of which we musn't speak. Oops. I've said too much. I'll probably have to pay for that. --]''''']''''' 04:03, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
	::::You're reading things into what I say again. I never said I heard voices. I said I wake up in the morning with questions. It's a ''desire'' to understand things the way they are. ] (]) 04:06, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
	:::::Jayron32's not here right now. He's been naughty. We've had to put him "away" for a while. Come back when he's finished his sentence. --]''''']''''' 04:08, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
	::::::I've been known to talk to answering machines and voice mail boxes. For a really long time. Until they fill up. ] (]) 04:10, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
	== What's your secret? ==		== Closure ==
			What an excellent summation of the facts you made at that closure for Jack. Very nicely written and a great conclusion. — ]&nbsp;(&nbsp;]&nbsp;•&nbsp;]&nbsp;) 13:54, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
	I notice that you constantly provide high-quality responses at the reference desks. Are you always familiar with the topics that you respond to and are the resident polymath or do you perform research before responding? I am insanely envious of your erudition either way. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']'''.''']'''</small> 15:54, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
			:Thank you! --]] 14:36, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
	:Thank you for your compliment. It is a combination of my interests (Back in the day, I majored in chemistry and minored in European history, and was only 2 classes away from a double major), the fact that I read a lot from a lot of different subjects, and the fact that I know a little bit about lots of things (jack of all trades, master of none). Enough to be dangerous, as they say. Usually, I know enough about any subject to find the relevent Misplaced Pages articles, and get the rest of my info from there. Take, for example, a recent question on the Soviet Union and Mongolia. Now, I didn't know a whole lot about Mongolia, but I knew it was in the Stalinist/Soviet sphere, so I did a little hunting, and found info on the Sino-Soviet negotations over the status of Mongolia. Again, I didn't know much going into it, but I knew enough to help find the pertinent information to answer the original question. Plus, I have this weird disease where my brain won't let me forget anything useless. I couldn't tell you where I left my keys (useful, so I can't remember it), but I can tell you the basic chronology of the French wars of religion or who played in and won every Super Bowl inlcuding the head coach, starting QB, MVP, and relevent plays from each game. --]''''']''''' 16:24, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
			::I'd like to second MaxnaCarta. That was a very difficult discussion to read, with many different factors and opposing/overlapping arguments, and your close was very well written with a good explanation. Thank you for your work! ''']''' (] &#124; ]) 01:47, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
	::I am looking for a good article that analyses the various moral arguments regarding animal rights and examines how they contrast with the rights enjoyed by humans. Any suggestions? <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']'''.''']'''</small> 20:42, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
	:::Whew. Now you're outside of my realm of expertise. I would just start at ] and follow threads from there. --]''''']''''' 02:39, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
			== Enjoy your time off! ==
	<small>Cross-examination at court hearing:</small>Mr. Jayron32, you "claim" to have majored in chemistry. Can you back this up? If you truly did major in the wonderful world of atoms and molecules, then please answer the following problem:
	4 NH3 + 5 O2 --> 4 NO + 6 H20
			As it says on the tin. ] (]) 21:25, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
	Given 1.50 grams of ammonia, 2.75 grams of oxygen...
			== Minor shenanigans by the archive bot ==
	A) How many grams of NO and H2O form?
			Greetings! Spotted something funny: two discussions at VPP; then one on May 29 without the hat, then the other on May 31 ''with'' the hat, but the bot placed the hat above the wrong discussion. Seems like the bot doesn't keep hats intact when they span multiple discussions. (This confused both and ; I've now ).
	B) How many grams of the excess reactant are left over?
			I'll report it to the bot operator in case there's a way to fix it. And by the way, enjoy your holidays! ] (]) 07:05, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
	C) Show that the calculations in the previous two steps obey the law of conservation of mass.
			:Bot operator is inactive so I've notified ] instead. Best, ] (]) 07:27, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
	<small>Kidding, you don't have to do it! But if you want the answers...</small>
			== Administrators' newsletter – June 2023 ==
	NO = 2.06 grams
			] from the past month (May 2023).
	H2O = 1.86 grams
			{{Col-begin}}
	.332 grams of the excess reactant (ammonia)
			{{Col-2}}
			] '''Administrator changes'''
	If 2.75 + 1.5 = 4.25 and 4.25-3.92 = .33, then we know it obeyed the law. Alternatively, .332 + 2.06 + 1.86 = 4.25
			:] ]
			:] {{hlist|class=inline
			|]
			|]
			|]
			}}
			{{Col-2}}
	--<small style="border: 1px dashed;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']]'''</small> 03:03, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
	*I currently work as a private tutor for a dozen or so chemistry students, I do this shit 3-4 times a day, and get $40 per hour to do so. I ain't doing it here. I'm off the clock. --]''''']''''' 03:05, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
	**Oooooh nice!! Wasn't expecting you to be a tutor, thought you only majored it. Enjoy it. And yes, I can perfectly understand that. --<small style="border: 1px dashed;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']]'''</small> 03:51, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
			]
	== ''The Tea Leaf'' - Issue Six ==
			] '''CheckUser changes'''
	Hi! Welcome to the sixth edition of ''The Tea Leaf'', the official newsletter of the ]!
			:] ]
	*'''Teahouse serves over 700 new editors in six months''' on Misplaced Pages! Since February 27, 741 new editors have participated at the Teahouse. The Q&A board and the guest intro pages are more active than ever.
	]]]
	*'''Automatic invites are doing the trick: 50% more new editors visiting each week.''' Ever since ]'s automated invite ] began we've seen a boost in new editor participation. Automating a baseline set of invitations also allows Teahouse hosts to focus on serving hot cups of help to guests, instead of spending countless hours inviting.
	*'''Guests to the Teahouse continue to edit more & interact more with other community members than non-Teahouse guests''' according to ]. Teahouse guests make more than twice the article edits and edit more talk pages than other new editors.
	*'''New host process implemented''' which encourages anyone to get started as a Teahouse host in a few easy steps. Stop by the ] page and become a Teahouse host today!
	*'''Host lounge renovations nearing completion.''' Working closely with Teahouse hosts, we've made some major renovations to the ] - the main hangout and resource space for hosts. Learn more about the improvements ].
			{{Col-end}}
	As always, thanks for supporting the Teahouse project! Stop by and ] us today!
			] '''Guideline and policy news'''
	<small>You are receiving ''The Tea Leaf'' after expressing interest or participating in the Teahouse! To remove yourself from receiving future newsletters, please remove your username ]. ] (]) 00:08, 6 September 2012 (UTC)</small>
			* Following ], editors indefinitely site-banned by ] will now have all rights, including sysop, removed.
	<!-- EdwardsBot 0346 -->
			* As a part of the Wikimedia Foundation's ] project, a ] that governs the access to temporary account IP addresses. An ] has been created and individual communities can increase the requirements to view temporary account IP addresses.
			] '''Technical news'''
	==Talkback==
			* Bot operators and tool maintainers should schedule time in the coming months to test and update their tools for the effects of ]. IP masking will not be deployed to any content wiki until ''at least'' October 2023 and is unlikely to be deployed to the English Misplaced Pages until some time in 2024.
	{{talkback|Wikipedia_talk:Teahouse/Host_lounge|Installing Teahouse scripts made easier!|ts=22:43, 6 September 2012 (UTC)}}
	] (]) 22:43, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
			] '''Arbitration'''
	== About "]" ==
			* The arbitration case '']'' has been closed. The topic area of Polish history during World War II (1933-1945) and the history of Jews in Poland is subject to a "reliable source consensus-required" contentious topic restriction.
			] '''Miscellaneous'''
	Hi Jayron. I've heard that it's impossible to delete the main page. Since I don't have the sysop permission, could you possibly go ahead and try it for me? {{smiley}} --] (]) 03:35, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
			* Following ], the ] has been modified to remove the ability for users to appeal remedies to {{noping|Jimbo Wales}}.
	:It was probably my fault. On a related note, Jayron, you got messages at ]. Hopefully I can get to the bottom of this quickly. The deletion note says that the script might have been interrupted by security things, though, which would be a problem on your end. Sorry. :/ ] ]] 03:40, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
			----
	== A beer for you! ==
			{{center|{{flatlist|
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			}}}}
			<!--
			-->{{center|1=<small>Sent by ] (]) 15:33, 5 June 2023 (UTC)</small>}}
			<!-- Message sent by User:Dreamy Jazz@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Administrators%27_newsletter/Subscribe&oldid=1158597894 -->
			== Administrators' newsletter – July 2023 ==
			] from the past month (June 2023).
			]
			] '''Administrator changes'''
			:] ]
			:] {{hlist|class=inline
			|]
			|]
			|]
			|]
			|]
			|]
			|]
			|]
			}}
			] '''Bureaucrat changes'''
			:] ]
			] '''Guideline and policy news'''
			* Contributions to the English Misplaced Pages are now released under the ] (CC BY-SA 4.0) license instead of ]. Contributions are still also released under the ].
			] '''Technical news'''
			* ] regarding a proposed ]. Third-party resources are computer resources that reside outside of Wikimedia production websites.
			] '''Arbitration'''
			* Two arbitration cases are currently open. Proposed decisions are expected 5 July 2023 for the ] case and 9 July 2023 for the ] case.
			----
			{{center|{{flatlist|
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			}}}}
			<!--
			-->{{center|1=<small>Sent by ] (]) 12:58, 1 July 2023 (UTC)</small>}}
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			== You're back early. ==
			&nbsp;&mdash;&nbsp;] (]) 12:08, 14 July 2023 (UTC)
			:I'm like a ninja. You never know when I'll appear. --]] 12:12, 14 July 2023 (UTC)
			== ref desk ==
			{{hat|I've had enough ] for one day. --]] 11:34, 28 July 2023 (UTC)}}
			The Reference Desk is for "Ask research questions about any topic except Misplaced Pages itself", and I came here about Misplaced Pages's strong attachment to mainstream corporate media. ] (]) 17:52, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
			:Cool story bro. --]] 17:53, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
			::I was only there because Misplaced Pages is only attached to mainstream media, and not any other alternative resources whatsoever. ] (]) 17:56, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
			:::Misplaced Pages is not attached to "mainstream media" (which, as an intelligent person, you clearly already know is a ] announcing your own political feelings). Misplaced Pages is attached to ]. --]] 17:57, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
			::::"Misplaced Pages is not attached to "mainstream media" Seems pretty self-contradicting since you always use commercially-controlled media as sources, which even if you say its a 'reliable source', they're allowed to lie legally. ] (]) 18:03, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
			:::::Cool story, bro. --]] 18:05, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
			::::::Could you actually respond instead of that? ] (]) 18:07, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
			:::::::I think that fully captures my feelings, and does not need to be further elaborated. --]] 18:24, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
			::::::::Welp, I guess you cant argue even in the slightest of logic. ] (]) 18:26, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
			{{hab}}
			== Other British monarch requested move discussions currently taking place ==
			Since you recently participated in the Charles III requested move discussion, I thought you might like to know that there are two other discussions currently going on about other British monarch article titles ] and ]. Cheers. ] (]) 22:28, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
			== WP:REFUND ==
			Welcome (back?) to ]. You may find using the ] to be helpful. Cheers! - ] ] 16:53, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
			:You kids and your fancy tools. I'm good typing things in by hand. <old man yells at cloud> --]] 17:26, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
			::I recommend using RFUD-helper. You restored ] but didn't make a minor edit to the page so it was tagged for speedy deletion, CSD G13 again. You have to make an edit to the page after restoration or it becomes immediately eligible for deletion again. So, I untagged it and doing this made an edit to the draft. But if you use the helper tool, it will take care of that step for you. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 04:09, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
			:::Thank you for correcting my mistake! Besides being old, I'm also incorrigibly incompetent. It's always good to have someone around who isn't. --]] 11:31, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
			== Administrators' newsletter – August 2023 ==
			] from the past month (July 2023).
			]
			] '''Administrator changes'''
			:] ]
			:] {{hlist|class=inline
			|]
			|]
			|]
			|]
			}}
			] '''Interface administrator changes'''
			:] ]
			] '''Technical news'''
			* The tag filter on ] and revision history pages can now be inverted. This allows hiding edits made by automated tools. ({{phab|T334338}})
			* ] is a new tool that allows easier blocking of plain domains (and their subdomains). This is more easily searchable and is faster for the software to use than the existing ]. It does not support regex (for complex cases), URL path-matching, or the ]. ({{phab|T337431}})
			] '''Arbitration'''
			* The arbitration cases named ] and ] closed 10 July and 16 July respectively.
			* The ] arbitration case is in the workshop phase.
			----
			{{center|{{flatlist|
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			}}}}
			<!--
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			<!-- Message sent by User:Dreamy Jazz@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Administrators%27_newsletter/Subscribe&oldid=1167880714 -->
			== A barnstar for you! ==
	{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"		{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
	|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]		|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]
			|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Civility Barnstar'''
	|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | "I'm as technical as a stale can of beer," is my new favorite quote. And you're more technical than you think, I bet. :) Enjoy a non-stale wiki beer!! ] (]) 04:39, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
			|-
			|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | is something which needs to be said, and you said it well. ''']'''×''']''' 22:32, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
	|}		|}
	:A good night cap. Thanks! --]''''']''''' 04:49, 7 September 2012 (UTC)		:Thank you, kind sir! --]] 10:45, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
			== Generative AI and Misplaced Pages research ==
	== your signature ==
			Hi Jayron32,
	Interesting to see you have "chosen" to change the color of your signature: http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Wikipedia_talk:In_the_news&curid=485213&diff=511255697&oldid=511219722 ] (]) 18:33, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
	:Thanks for the heads up. I've reverted and warned. If it happens again, it won't happen again, if you catch my drift. --]''''']''''' 18:41, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
			My name is Dr. Tim Koskie and I am a researcher at the Centre for Media Transition (CMT) at the University of Technology Sydney (UTS). We are conducting a study on the implications of content-generating AI systems such as ChatGPT for knowledge integrity on Misplaced Pages, and are approaching you because you have participated in discussions on this topic on Wikimedia pages.
			If you are interested, we would like to invite you to participate in our study. It would involve joining either a focus group discussion or an interview (around 1 hour), in person at Wikimania in Singapore if you are going to be there, or online at a future date. At these sessions we would ask you questions about how you think generative AI will impact Misplaced Pages, as well as about the kinds of work you do on Misplaced Pages.
			The project is funded by the Wikimedia Research Fund grant programme. You can find out more about the project here: https://meta.wikimedia.org/Research:Implications_of_ChatGPT_for_knowledge_integrity_on_Wikipedia
			If you are interested, let me know and I will forward you some more detailed information on the project. ] (]) 04:11, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
			:Thanks for the offer, but I'm not really interested. Good luck with your study though! --]] 11:31, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
			::Thanks for the response, and we appreciate your contributions to the larger discussions. ] (]) 23:58, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
			== That is not entirely true ==
	==Google-fu==
			Hi, you once told me ''Reporting the results of such demographic data (religious affiliation) from censuses is entirely uncontroversial as far as I can tell.'' Let me tell you that is not entirely true. For instance, in 2008, Nigerian officials removed the religious affiliation question from the census questionnaire in response to violent social protests. The tension was that in this country believed to be nearly equally divided between Muslims and Christians, various constituencies felt that the census results would be biased and would show that one or the other religion predominated. ] (]) 16:30, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
			:Okay. --]] 11:32, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
			== Thanks! ==
	{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"		{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
	|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | ]		|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | ]
Line 616:		Line 904:
	|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Reference Desk Barnstar'''		|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Reference Desk Barnstar'''
	|-		|-
	|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | I tend to be a bit shy about this interaction stuff, but I was so impressed with your tracking down the answer to ] that I thought you really should have one of these. Very nice indeed. ]] 21:59, 8 September 2012 (UTC)		|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | Thank you for answering my dicerolling probability question on the Mathematics Reference Desk! --] (]) 06:44, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
	|}		|}
	:Thank you very much! --]''''']''''' 02:09, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
			== A user mentioned you on ANI ==
	== Dewan357 ==
			In case you weren't aware, a user mentioned you on ]. Best --]] 03:18, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
	I'll just point out that I am being criticized for treating Dewan357 as if he is banned. You opposing his ban but saying he is already banned is going to be an interesting point in consensus finding. If you believe I was correct to treat him as banned, it might be helpful to say so, as this discussion is turning into a referendum on the way I treat indefinitely blocked editors as much as it is a discussion on this individual ban.&mdash;](]) 00:00, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
			:Thanks for the heads up. Will monitor in case anyone says anything that needs my response. --]] 11:13, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
	:This is a vote in protest. I don't believe we serve the encyclopedia by enacting ban discussions against people who, based on their existing behavior, stand no chance of editing again in the reasonable future. I don't believe that this is because he has been indeffed; we have many users who get indeffed but who I would not consider banned. However, when a users behavior has reached the level of disruption and especially sockpuppeteering and block dodging this has, then we shouldn't even have discussions about banning them. It is a waste of time to do so. I've explained this already after my vote: whoever closes the discussion can decide how to use my comments to help them. They have eyes and presumable a knowledge of English. I trust them to use both. --]''''']''''' 00:03, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
			== Administrators' newsletter – September 2023 ==
	==Page Curation update==
	Hey all :). We've just deployed another set of features for Page Curation. They include flyouts from the icons in ], showing who reviewed an article and when, a listing of this in the "info" flyout, and a general re-jigging of the info flyout - we've also fixed the weird bug with page_titles_having_underscores_instead_of_spaces in messages sent to talkpages, and introduced ! As always, these features will need some work - but any feedback would be ]. Thanks! ] (]) 18:14, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
			] from the past month (August 2023).
	== ANI ==
			{{Col-begin}}
	Did you take time to read my reply to Alf in the ANI? I'll probably disagree with you on this then, but I think such hostile behauvior after banning deserves an ANI and threats about "investigating" other users and "media coverage coming" is pretty frightening. Having the chance that something may reveal your real identity – not a nice feeling to know distruptive editors acting as "investigators" are allowed to do that. I thought that was a very serious thing about what I started that ANI about. Guess I was wrong. --]] 00:37, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
			{{Col-2}}
	:You do what you gotta do. --]''''']''''' 01:17, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
			] '''Administrator changes'''
	== Erm ==
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			{{Col-2}}
	I actually didn't meant to be offensive. ] (]) 07:36, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
	:Yeah, most people don't. Just take care and be thoughtful about what you say. --]''''']''''' 12:01, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
			]
	== Semiprotect ]? ==
			] '''CheckUser changes'''
	Now that the article is on probation, which would seem to be the most favored option at the ANI discussion, isn't it time to drop the protection to semiprotected? Sure, there was edit warring, but a fair amount of it was consensus-seeking and productive; and protecting the article clearly threw that baby out with the bathwater. (you can reply here) ] (]) 18:00, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
			:] ]
	:The protection was an expedient to stop a rapid and multi-party edit war. If, as you say, the need for the protection has dissipated, I have no problem with any admin removing or modifying it. --]''''']''''' 18:17, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
	::Just a heads up, I lowered the protection settings and enforced community general sanctions.--v/r - ]] 18:53, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
	:::Good stuff! --]''''']''''' 19:18, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
			] '''Oversighter changes'''
	==Help desk==
			:] ]
	Hi!, thank you for answering my question on Humanities so fast. I'm eager to contribute to articles that I like, such as that of Canadian actor ], and I asked a question on the Help Desk about him and his possible categories, could you check my question please?. I won't bother you again, I promise. But I'm eager to contribute and nobody answers! LOL. Thank you. ] (]) 19:57, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
			{{Col-end}}
	== AN/I ==
			] '''Guideline and policy news'''
	Hello. There is currently a discussion at ] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. <!--Template:ANI-notice--> Thank you.
			* Following ], ] will be automatically semi-protected the day before it is on the main page and through the day after.
			* ] at ] about revision deletion and oversight for ] found that {{tq|ysops can choose to use revdel if, in their view, it's the right tool for this situation, and they need not default to oversight. But oversight could well be right where there's a particularly high risk to the person. Use your judgment}}.
			] '''Technical news'''
	] (]) 21:53, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
			* ] now shows the user's local edit count and the account's creation date. ({{phab|T324166}})
			] '''Arbitration'''
	== Teahouse talkback: you've got messages! ==
			* The '']'' case has closed. As part of the final decision, editors participating in ] have been reminded to be careful about forming {{tq|local consensus which may or may not reflect the broader community consensus}}. Regular closers of ] forums were also encouraged to {{tq|note when broader community discussion, or changes to policies and guidelines, would be helpful}}.
			] '''Miscellaneous'''
	{{Misplaced Pages:Teahouse/Teahouse talkback|WP:Teahouse/Questions|Is there merit for leniency? - Internet challenged, source validation|ts=]''''']''''' 16:57, 13 September 2012 (UTC)}}
			* '''Tech tip''': The "Browse history interactively" banner shown at the top of ] can be used to easily look through a history, assemble composite diffs, or find out what archive something wound up in.
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	==New contributors Help desk==
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	Could you please link me to such desk? I was told it exists. Thank you. I have a couple of questions to ask. ] (]) 20:40, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
			* ]
	:You can try ] or ] or ]. Any of those should be of help to you. --]''''']''''' 00:51, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
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			== talk page access ==
	===TalkPage Help desk===
	:Never mind there was a discussion section so there were opinions about the film, but at least thanks
	anyway.--] (]) 04:26, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
			I wrote up this response regarding the use of one's user talk page when blocked before you received a reply. Based on your subsequent response, I'm guessing my response covers guidance of which you are already aware. On the off-chance that it might be helpful, I'm posting it here, but feel free to ignore it.
	== Hiya... ==
			Although there are many editors who hold the view that a blocked user should only use their talk page for an appeal, for better or worse, it doesn't have consensus support. At {{section link|Misplaced Pages:Blocking policy|Standard block options}}, under "Prevent this user from editing their own talk page while blocked": {{tq|...editing of the user's talk page should be disabled only in cases of continued abuse of their user talk page, or when the user has engaged in serious threats, accusations, or attempts at outing that must be prevented from re-occurring.}} (] is one I remember in particular, where talk page access was removed but later restored to allow them to continue to make comments much as they had been doing.) It's a bit fuzzier for site-banned editors: {{section link|Misplaced Pages:Banning policy|Further enforcement measures}} just states {{tq|Indefinitely site-banned editors may be restricted from editing their user talk page or using email.}} Based solely on what I have come across (which is only a very few number of cases) and can recall, admins are typically tolerant of general discussion, but the line between that and disruption is murky. ] (]) 18:19, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
	Okay, I'll admit it made me laugh. But lame or not, it's where we are. One of the case participants has expressed the concern that it's disruptive (which it obviously is &mdash; I get it, that's the point). But, the poll is the product of over a month of negotiation, so would you object very strongly if I took it out? <span style="font-family: Palatino Linotype, Book Antiqua, Palatino, serif;" color="#BBAED0">] <font size="-2">] &#124; ])</font></span> 01:05, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
			:I thank you for your additional information, but my comments were not made because of a lack of knowledge on my part. They were made because I am an asshole. No amount of additional education will fix that. It's just who I am. Ask around, you'll learn quickly once you get to know me better. --]] 18:21, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
	:I wasn't intending to be disruptive, but I was using humor to make a serious point. It absolutely '''doesn't matter''' which we choose. Pick one at random and stick to it. I feel it is important that my voice is heard, and I want the point made that while we need to choose one form to be consistent throughout the whole article, it literally '''doesn't matter''' which one we choose. I would, therefore, like my comment to stand. If anyone objects, please point them to this discussion, or have them leave their objection in the "discussion" section of the RFC, so we can discuss it there. Either way, I would object to removing my statement. It was humorous in tone, but I am not joking when I say that I want my opinion heard that the debate is pointless. --]''''']''''' 01:10, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
			::] ] (]) 18:42, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
	::Well, I do still feel that adding a rather long titled "third option" to a poll whose construction was the product of careful consensus is somewhat equivalent to a bull in a china shop. But maybe that's what we need? I'm not interested in fighting you over this, but I will say that if you wanted replies to go in the discussion section, then why not put your opinions there? <span style="font-family: Palatino Linotype, Book Antiqua, Palatino, serif;" color="#BBAED0">] <font size="-2">] &#124; ])</font></span> 01:20, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
	:::It gets attention, dontit? --]''''']''''' 01:24, 15 September 2012 (UTC)		:::Keep firing! --]] 10:33, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
			::I don't have any particular argument with your comment, and even the last sentence regarding the purpose of allowing access isn't contradictory to practice; that is an important purpose. My apologies for covering known territory: I thought you were suggesting that some kind of corrective action take place and so brought up the relevant guidance for reference. ScottishFinnishRadish's analysis, though, addressed the specific situation and thus was more useful. ] (]) 18:53, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
	::::How do you suggest I respond to ]? <span style="font-family: Palatino Linotype, Book Antiqua, Palatino, serif;" color="#BBAED0">] <font size="-2">] &#124; ])</font></span> 01:27, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
	:::::You tell them to talk to me. They got a problem with me, they can speak to me face to face. There's no need for them to get you to do their work for them. If they have a problem with something I have done, they can come directly to me and deal with me. You are under no obligation to do anything at all in regards to my actions. I can take care of myself. --]''''']''''' 01:31, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
	== What the heck was I thinking? ==		== Sorry if my tone came across as harsh ==
			After rereading what I said on El_C's talk page, I realized it could be read with far more vitriol than was intended. The tone I was reaching for was exasperated. ] (]) 18:40, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
	Hi Jayron,
			:Understood. I stepped into a situation I had no business being in, given my lack of proper investigation. I got what I deserved. --]] 10:34, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
	This happened more than two weeks ago, so it's probably too late to do anything useful, but umm. I just noticed when going through my contributions that I apparently on the refdesk, and I have no idea why - I can see nothing whatsoever wrong with your post, plus if there was something wrong with a post I'd usually reply or bring the issue to your talkpage instead of blindly reverting. I can find no talkpage discussion about that thread or about my removal, so I really have no idea why I reverted you - the most probable explanation is that I accidentally clicked on "rollback" without noticing - and then apparently nobody else noticed what I did, so your post was removed without any comment and without ever being re-inserted - sorry about that, I have no idea how that could have happened. -- ] ] 18:32, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
	:Meh, it happens. I didn't even notice, pay it no mind. I certainly haven't. Thank you for letting me know about this, I think it is wonderful that you care, because not enough people around here do. But let me set your mind at peace. You're fine, mistakes happen, and it isn't a big deal. --]''''']''''' 18:37, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
			== ''The Center Line'': Fall 2023 ==
	== My stars ==
			<div style="margin-left: 10%; width: 80%; text-align: center; border-radius:2em; box-shadow:0.1em 0.1em 0.5em rgba(0,0,0,0.75);">
	Please don't ''keep'' calling them my stars. The were invented by someone else long, long ago, in a galaxy far, far away. I have no claim on the template. ] (]) 18:07, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
			<div style="background-color: #006A4D; color: white; border-right: 0.3em solid #fff; border-top: 0.3em solid #fff; border-left: 0.3em solid #fff; padding: 1em 2em; border-radius:2em 2em 0 0;">
	:Oh, but you've certainly adopted them. --]''''']''''' 18:15, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
			<div style="border-bottom: 2px solid white;">
			]<br>
			Volume&nbsp;10, Issue&nbsp;1 • Fall 2023 • ]
			</div>
			;<big>Features</big>
			<span style="color:white;">•</span> ]
			</div>
			<div style="background-color: #FCD116; font-weight: bold; border-right: 0.3em solid #000; border-top: 1px solid #000; border-bottom: 0.3em solid #000; border-left: 0.3em solid #000; border-radius:0 0 2em 2em;">
			] • ] • ] • ]: ]
			</div>
			</div>
			:—delivered by ] (]) on behalf of <span style="background:#006B54; padding:2px;">''']&nbsp;]'''</span> on 19:00, 12 September 2023 (UTC)</small>
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			== Administrators' newsletter – September 2023 ==
	== Explain ==
			] from the past month (September 2023).
	Please explain why, in your opinion, a co-operative project should have any tolerance for such blatant rudeness as you have demonstrated this evening from its administrators. ] (]) 21:25, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
	:I'm not particularly interested in explaining anything to you. You aren't entitled to anything from me. --]''''']''''' 22:18, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
	::Blow it out your ass. Lick my nutsack. Sit and spin...
	::Hope you don't mind me saying any of this, because that is apparently the kind of ] Misplaced Pages admins stick in their edit summaries without fear of reprisal. Suckit. ] (]) 22:29, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
	:::I'll note that you logged out to do that. Takes a strong person to hide behind an IP address and not tie it to their main identity. Goodonya. --]''''']''''' 22:30, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
	::::I'm not sure who you think I am, but I haven't logged out, since I don't have an account. ] (]) 22:32, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
	:::::I don't care who you are. You aren't interesting or important to me. --]''''']''''' 22:36, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
	::::::Whoop de doo. Try acting with the responsibility becoming to an administrator, instead of like a petulant child. ] (]) 22:37, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
	:::::::If you are interested in starting a productive discussion, please start one. I'm not terribly interested in calling each other names or insulting each other. It isn't a very useful way to have a discourse. I would be most open to discussing any matter with you as a reasonable person, but this is not how reasonable people talk about things. So, if you would like to have that reasonable discourse, you may start it at any time. If you would just rather take easy shots at me, I'd really rather that you didn't. The choice is entirely yours how we proceed here. --]''''']''''' 22:39, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
	::::::::I repeat: "Blow it out your ass. Lick my nutsack. Sit and spin..." That's not productive discussion or how reasonable people talk about things. Over and out. ] (]) 22:42, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
	:::::::::You are entirely correct about that. Is there anything else you would like to converse about? Because I don't think I have disagreed with you on that point. --]''''']''''' 22:43, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
			{{Col-begin}}
	I can't prove it to you: I can only ask you to trust that IP 87.113 is not me. Thank you for your message at my talk page: hope to have more productive dealings with you in the future. ] (]) 06:17, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
			{{Col-2}}
	:I already knew that. But thanks for confirming it. Anyhoo, happy day. --]''''']''''' 11:44, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
			] '''Administrator changes'''
	== Wikimeet ==
			:] ]
			:] {{hlist|class=inline
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			{{Col-2}}
	] --] | ] 15:59, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
	: :) --]''''']''''' 17:06, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
			]
	==Kiribati castaway==
	Hi dear, I created his article, ], do you think it could be suitable for DYK? Please answer back. Thank you. ] (]) 17:46, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
	:I think this doesn't stand any chance of surviving ] level scrutiny. Per ], we shouldn't create articles about people whose reason for supposed notability is so fleeting. --]''''']''''' 17:47, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
	I'm not lucky today. To be honest I just wanted to make Kiribati famous because I myself am a Kiribati Islander. ] (]) 17:53, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
	:Kiribati isn't famous enough? --]''''']''''' 17:54, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
	Many don't even know where we are. You knew? ] (]) 17:55, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
	:It's a sovereign nation, n'est ce pas? --]''''']''''' 17:56, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
	Yes, fortunately, and now that you know that I'm a I-Kiribati, I'm not native English speaker, it's a lie on my user page, I speak gilbertese and fluent English but didn't find the template of gilbertese I tried to look for it. ] (]) 18:03, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
			] '''CheckUser changes'''
	== ITN thread on embassy protests/attacks ==
			:] ]
			:] {{hlist|class=inline
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			] '''Oversighter changes'''
	Now at ].--] (]) 02:46, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
			:] ]
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			{{Col-end}}
	== Government IP addresses ==
			] '''Guideline and policy news'''
	{{talkback|Misplaced Pages:VPP|About Sensitive IP Address}}
			* ] is open regarding amending the ] policy to add the following text: {{tq|Any administrator soliciting clients for paid Misplaced Pages-related consulting or advising services not covered by other paid-contribution rules must disclose all clients on their userpage.}}
			] '''Technical news'''
	== Your feedback to my question/article in the Teahouse ==
			* Administrators can now choose to add the user's user page to their watchlist when changing the usergroups for a user. This works both via ] and via the API. ({{phab|T272294}})
			] '''Arbitration'''
	Hey, I know I already thanked you under your response to my question about COI and my Ars Nova article, but just wanted to say that your response really made me feel a lot better about the whole process. Even if my article isn't approved, everything you said about it appearing to fit in well with the Misplaced Pages style gave me a major lift, after spending nearly two full days worrying about it doing so. You seem like a really great person and a fair and patient editor (or, at least, newbie caretaker), and I'm happy to have interacted with you. :-) ] (]) 02:30, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
			* ] of the ] has ].
	:You're quite welcome! --]''''']''''' 03:10, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
			] '''Miscellaneous'''
	== ] (Participant Clean-Up) ==
			* The ] has concluded with the appointment of one new CheckUser.
			* Self-nominations for the ] for the ] opens on 2 October and closes on 8 October.
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	Hello, you are receiving this message because you are currently a participant of ]. Since the creation of the WikiProject, over 200 user's have joined to help review good article nominations and contribute to other sections of the WikiProject. Over the years, several of these users have stopped reviewing articles and/or have become inactive with the project but are still listed as participates. In order to improve communications with other participants and get newsletters sent out faster (newsletters will begin to be sent out monthly starting in October) all participants that are no longer active with the WikiProject will be removed from the ].
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			==RfC on the "Airlines and destinations" tables in airport articles==
	If you are still interested in being a participant for this WikiProject, please sign your user name ] and please help review some articles so we can reduce the size of the backlog. If you are no longer interested, you do not need to sign your name anywhere and your name will be removed from the participants list after the deadline. Remember that even if you are not interested at this time, you can always re-add your name to the list whenever you want. The deadline to sign your name on the page above will be November 1, 2012. Thank-you. 13:27, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
			]&nbsp;You are invited to join the discussion at ]. &#x0020;I saw that you participated in a ]. ] (]) 18:23, 8 October 2023 (UTC)<!-- ] -->
	<!-- EdwardsBot 0361 -->
			==Hello! ==
	== Update for: ] (Participant Clean-Up) ==
			Hi, Jayron32,
			I was just thinking about you and noticed that you had recently gone inactive. I hope all is well and that you are just busy with off-Misplaced Pages life. I hope, in good time, you return to the project. Take care, <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 19:03, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
	Sorry for having to send out a second message but a user has brought to my attention that a point mentioned in the first message should be clarified. If user's don't sign on ], they will be moved to an "Inactive Participants" list rather then be being removed from the entire WikiProject. Sorry for any confusion.--] (])15:17, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
			:The same happened to me, and I share Liz's hopes. Peace. ---] ] 00:45, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
	<!-- EdwardsBot 0362 -->
			::I also just realized that I haven't seen you on the ref desks for a while. I hope all is well with you. --] 07:16, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
			:Just a note to say that I had a brief exchange with Jayron32 off-wiki. All is well, he has had some difficulties accessing his account but hopes to be back. --] 14:38, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
			::Thanks for bringing the good news, ]! ---] ] 23:07, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
			== Do you have time to talk about style in Misplaced Pages articles? ==
	== Cage-fight to the death ==
			In the hope of finding a fellow Wikipedian who is interested in questions of style in Misplaced Pages articles, I had a look at the revision history of the article about one of my favorite books of all time, Pinker's Sense of Style. Your name stood out for some reason as promising, so I had a look at your talk page, which seemed welcoming. The fact that you have a lot of edits to your name seems to be a plus as well.
	Hey Jayron32,
			If you don't want to talk about this, or with me, I am totally okay with that. But if you do, let's talk.
	I noticed that you recently proposed a cage-fight to the death in helping resolve certain disputes. Another admin, The Blade of the Northern Lights, agreed with this.
			I am especially interested right now in a rule of thumb for good writing (in English, and probably in most other languages give a choice between using a plural or a singular when make a general statement) that I came up with a few months or possibly a few years ago, and that has informed my editing at Misplaced Pages for at least several months.
	It sounds to me like a fascinating idea. I was wondering, however, how would it be implemented? Would it be a real cage fight - or some online duel? The idea obviously has traction amongst editors and admins - do you think we should open an RfC on it?
			Here it is:
	<small>Some humor can go a long way!</small>
			Avoid the use of a plural whenever reasonably possible, and thus have greater clarity. I mainly have general statements in mind. Thus one would avoid the first sentence, and write instead the second or third, depending on what precisely your intended meaning was.
	--<small style="border: 1px dashed;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']]'''</small> 04:41, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
			1. "When men and women get married they usually produce children."
	:No, we build a big metal cage, throw them in half naked (i'm partial to loin cloths myself), and whoever is the last one alive gets to edit the disputed article to their liking. No RFC needed. Just some spectators willing to place bets and someone to sell beers to the crowd. --]''''']''''' 04:44, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
			2. "When a man and a woman get married they usually produce a child."
	::Oh wow, that's interesting. Perhaps in really contentious articles, we can drop them on a desolate island on the opposite ends and have them track each other down and kill and survive with just a few resources? I'm not too fond of building the big metal cage - why have us do all the dirty work? Let them do it! --<small style="border: 1px dashed;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']]'''</small> 04:48, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
			3. "When a man and a woman get married they usually produce children."
	:::Nah, too boring. They could live for months. Big metal cage, teeth and nails, punch the other guy till he dies. Then you ] the article. --]''''']''''' 04:49, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
			Whether or not this is a good rule of thumb, I seem to be the only person to have said anything about this, so maybe I have come up with an original idea. About half a day of my best googlefu turned up nothing relevant. I even looked at every instance of the word "plural", using control F in the entire text of Pinker's awesome Sense of Style, and that of the Chicago Style Manual, and that Strunk and White's The Elements of Style.
	::::Ah, but living for months is the excitement, that's what fueled ]! The anticipation, what will happen next... --<small style="border: 1px dashed;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']]'''</small> 05:00, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
	:::::Cage. Blood. Death. --]''''']''''' 05:02, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
	:::In the old days, we'd just tie their left hands together with a towel and put knives in their right hands. Much cheaper than building a cage, and you can use the towel to mop the mess when it's over.&mdash;](]) 05:30, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
	::::That'd work too. --]''''']''''' 05:31, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
			I would appreciate it if you would take the time to share your thoughts about this with me. ] (]) 22:26, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
	==Disambiguation link notification for September 23==
			:The fact that you are an administrator did not affect my decision to post on your talk page. I have no idea how it is relevant to that decision, though I expect it is relevant. ] (]) 22:30, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
	Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Misplaced Pages appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited ], you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page ] (]&nbsp;|&nbsp;]). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. <small>Read the ]{{*}} Join us at the ].</small>
			== Administrators' newsletter – November 2023 ==
	It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these ]. Thanks, ] (]) 14:50, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
			] from the past month (October 2023).
	==Another barnstar for you!==
	{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
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	|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Barnstar of Diligence'''
	|-
	|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | For helping out in answering many of my questions at the Reference Desk. You deserve this barnstar. :) ] (]) 20:22, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
	|}<!--Template:The Barnstar of Diligence-->
	:Thank you dearly! --]''''']''''' 00:06, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
	::You're welcome. You help out here a lot, and you're one of the most intelligent Wikipedians that I know. :) I have a question--would you be able to please help me out with this question--]? If not, that's okay. Thank you very much. ] (]) 01:01, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
	:::Thank you for your response. I responded to you on that thread. ] (]) 04:17, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
			]
	== You're on a roll today ==
			] '''Administrator changes'''
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	|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The ] Barnstar'''
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	|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | To go with your Ref desk barnstar. You deserve it. --<small style="border: 1px dashed;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']]'''</small> 00:12, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
	|}
	:Butter me... --]''''']''''' 00:13, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
			] '''Interface administrator changes'''
	==Page Curation newsletter==
			:] ]
	Hey {{BASEPAGENAME}}. This will be, if not our final newsletter, one of the final ones :). After months of churning away at this project, our final version (apart from a few tweaks and bugfixes) is now live. Changes between this and the last release include deletion tag logging, a centralised log, and fixes to things like edit summaries.
			:] {{hlist|class=inline
			|]
			|]
			}}
			] '''Guideline and policy news'''
	Hopefully you like what we've done with the place; suggestions for future work on it, complaints and bugs ] :). We'll be holding ] sessions, which I hope you'll all attend. Many thanks, ] (]) 11:11, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
			] '''Technical news'''
	== A barnstar for you! ==
			* The WMF is working on making it possible for administrators to ]. This is similar to previous work on Special:EditGrowthConfig. A ] until November 08, where you can provide feedback.
			* There is ] for re-enabling the Graph Extension. Feedback on this proposal ].
			] '''Arbitration'''
	{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
			* Eligible editors are invited to self-nominate themselves from 12 November 2023 until 21 November 2023 to stand ].
	|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]
			* {{noping|Xaosflux}}, {{noping|RoySmith}} and {{noping|Cyberpower678}} have been appointed to the ] for the ]. {{noping|BusterD}} is the reserve commissioner.
	|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar'''
			* Following ], the contentious topic designation of ''Prem Rawat'' has been struck. Actions previously taken using this contentious topic designation are still in force.
	|-
			* Following ], multiple topic areas are no longer designated as a contentious topic. These contentious topic designations were from the ''Editor conduct in e-cigs articles'', ''Liancourt Rocks'', ''Longevity'', ''Medicine'', ''September 11 conspiracy theories'', and ''Shakespeare authorship question'' cases.
	|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | I reckon you're owed an award for niceness for , especially when the standard impersonal advice had already been offered. ]&nbsp;''']‍]''' 14:05, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
			* Following ], remedies 3.1 (All related articles under 1RR whenever the dispute over naming is concerned), 6 (Stalemate resolution) and 30 (Administrative supervision) of the ''Macedonia 2'' case have been rescinded.
	|}
			* Following ], remedy 6 (One-revert rule) of the ''The Troubles'' case has been amended.
	:Why thank you kindly! --]''''']''''' 16:36, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
			* An arbitration case named '']'' has been opened. Evidence submissions in this case close 8 November.
			] '''Miscellaneous'''
	== king.parker3 ==
			* The ] is happening in November 2023, with 700+ drafts pending reviews for in the last 4 months or so. In addition to the AfC participants, all administrators and New Page Patrollers can conduct reviews using the helper script, Yet Another AFC Helper Script, which can be enabled in ]. ]
			----
			{{Center|{{Flatlist|
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			}}}}
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			== ArbCom 2023 Elections voter message ==
	I can see this one is going to be a challenge. That's twice within an hour he's asked the same question about conflict, I'm not sure he's grasped how to edit a section on the question page - just keeps using the ask a question button. ] (]) 20:08, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
	:Eh. He's no different than any of a dozen such new editors who show up. I was probably an idiot when I first got here too, whatever it was, 6-7 years ago. We'll just keep working with him until he shows that he isn't willing to be worked with. ANd I haven't seen that yet. --]''''']''''' 20:13, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
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	== Updating an out of date Misplaced Pages page for a company ==
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			Hello! Voting in the ''']''' is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on {{#time:l, j F Y|{{Arbitration Committee candidate/data|2023|end}}-1 day}}. All ''']''' are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.
			The ] is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the ]. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose ], ], editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The ] describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
	Hello Jayron32! I am looking into editing the Misplaced Pages page for a company that has a lot of outdated/old information. I am wondering what the best process for this would be - should we click the Talk button on the company page, then click the Edit button and include an upfront justification as to why we would like to change the current information, and then drop in our suggested revised version, making sure to cite each reference? Ideally, we would like the entire page revised, and not just sections.
			If you wish to participate in the 2023 election, please review ] and submit your choices on the ''']'''. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{tlx|NoACEMM}} to your user talk page. <small>] (]) 00:29, 28 November 2023 (UTC)</small>
	We also want to respect how fragile the Misplaced Pages editing process is and would not like to be blocked from editing because we make a misstep.
			</div>
	Would I be able to private message you the link to the Misplaced Pages company page and our suggested new content, with references included, so you could let me know if it's good to submit or if you see any red flags?
			</div>
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			== Good article reassessment for ] ==
	Please let me know, your expertise is greatly appreciated! Best, Hailey Sept 25, 2012 @ 2:00PM PT ] (]) 21:00, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
			] has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the ]. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. ] (]) 19:26, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
	:The best thing to do, if you want to exercise caution, is to use the talk page. What I would do is to leave a note explaining what changes you wish to make, with links or other references to sources of the changes (how do we know the new information is trustworthy, show us in reliable sources) and leave all of that on the talk page. Then give it a week or so so people can look it over and make any comments on your suggestions. If no one objects after a reaosnable amount of time, you can go ahead and make the changes. If you need specific help, or specific review of what you want to do, just do as I said, and leave me a note telling me which article you are seeking to change, and I'll see what I can do for you. --]''''']''''' 21:27, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
			== Administrators' newsletter – December 2023 ==
	== ANI ==
			] from the past month (November 2023).
	Well, if the user does it again (and he probably will, as stated by him:), and again... without wanting to hear any advice, then I will come back to ANI. --] (]) 14:27, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
	:You have fun with that. --]''''']''''' 14:30, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
	::Not really.--] (]) 14:31, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
	== Please sign your posts ==
	A reader scanning ANI should be able to know who closed a discussion at a glance without having to go mucking through it. Please sign your post. <small>]</small> 15:22, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
	:I did. I stated clearly and unambiguously that I closed the discussion. It's right there. When I said, and I quote, "I am hatting this discussion", what I meant by that was "I am hatting this discussion". --]''''']''''' 15:24, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
	::{{tps}}I think he meant that the note in the collapsed header itself wasn't signed, so someone would have to uncollapse it (and/or wade through page history) to see who closed it. ] ]] 15:27, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
	:::I suppose i could have done that as well, except that prior to this discussion, it would have been odd for me to do so, as it isn't a widespread practice to do so. Yes, I know that each of you are going to come up with 4,783 diffs which show people signing inside the hat comment. Regardless, a quick perusal of the entirety of Misplaced Pages will show that signing inside the hat is not universal or even widespread, even if it does sometime occur. I claimed the hat, I've now also claimed the claiming of the hat. Am I allowed to now go do something else with my valuable time, or do we need to waste more of our collective time discussing this? --]''''']''''' 15:36, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
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	== Wow! ==
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			] '''Administrator changes'''
	How do you do it Jayron? How are you so familiar with so many things, like leaf lobation and the Canadian Shield? That Canadian Shield info really made me appreciate your contribution here. A great day to you! ''']''' <sup>(] | ])</sup> 18:56, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
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			:] {{noping|Beeblebrox}} → {{noping|Just Step Sideways}}
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			]
			] '''CheckUser changes'''
	{{award2|
			:] {{Hlist|class=inline
	image=Refdesk barnstar candidate2.png|size=100px|
			|]
	topic=The Refdesk Barnstar|
			|]
	text= I know it must be quaint for you to receive a barnstar, but I just figured, "Why not!" Who knows -- maybe they'll come back in style in the future and you can use it to purchase important things like ]. :) ''']''' <sup>(] | ])</sup> 18:59, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
	}}		}}
			] '''Oversight changes'''
	:Thank you for your kind words! The answer is: My brain is the internet. I don't know everything ahead of time (well, the Canadian Shield answer I did, because I have taught High School Earth Science, and you tend to learn what you are teaching to others). Probably half of the answers I give on the ref desks I didn't know anymore than the question asker did either. What happens is I know ''how to find the answer''. For your tree question, I typed "tree identification" into Google, found that arborday.org website, and played around till I found a match, and then posted the result. If I have any skill, it isn't in knowing more information, it is in using the internet to find that information. --]''''']''''' 19:01, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
			:] {{Hlist|class=inline
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	::Oh, and I love barnstars. It is a little bit of conceited vanity. I don't "hunt" for them, but I accept them willingly and am flattered when I get them. --]''''']''''' 19:02, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
			</div>
			] '''Guideline and policy news'''
	:What I like about Jayron's answer to that question is that he didn't just write down (what he thought, guessed, or determined was) the answer, but that he also explained how and where he got it, and pointed to appropriate resources so that other readers will be able to answer similar questions in the future. That's the sort of thing that I really like to see, and that we should all be striving to do at our ''Reference'' Desk. Kudos! ](]) 19:57, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
			* Following a ], the ] has been updated to note that while it is considered best practice for administrators to have ] (pings) enabled, this is not mandatory. Administrators who do not use notifications are now strongly encouraged to indicate this on their user page.
	::Thank you. I try to do it right. I don't always succeed, but I do try. --]''''']''''' 19:58, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
			] '''Arbitration'''
	== Great Tool! ==
			* Following ], the ] has been amended, removing the allowance for non-extended-confirmed editors to post constructive comments on the "Talk:" namespace. Now, non-extended-confirmed editors may use the "Talk:" namespace solely to make edit requests related to articles within the topic area, provided that their actions are not disruptive.
			* The Arbitration Committee has ] a call for Checkusers and Oversighters, stating that it will currently be accepting applications for CheckUser and/or Oversight permissions at any point in the year.
			* ] are invited to ''']''' for the ] until ''23:59 December 11, 2023 (UTC)''. Candidate statements can be seen ].
			----
	{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
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	|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Teamwork Barnstar'''
			* ]
	|-
			}}}}
	|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | I chose this barnstar because it's pretty, not for its official title, but you're getting it for posting a link to the Google Ngram tool on the Ref Desk, a great resource about which I'd never have known without your contribution. ] (]) 03:52, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
			<!--
	|}
			-->{{center|1=<small>Sent by ] (]) 15:54, 8 December 2023 (UTC)</small>}}
	:Thank you dearly. Yeah, I found it a few days ago, and I was just waiting for an opportunity to whip it out. Pretty cool stuff. Google never ceases to amaze me with the tools it has, and a LOT of it goes unadvertised. You have to play around with it to find out how it works. The main search bar also works as a fully functioning dictionary (start any search with the word "define" and calculator (just type in any math problem) and unit convertor (start any search with the word "convert"). Google is really wonderful stuff, not just for the Web Search, but for all of their other search functions which allow really excellent research, like the Ngrams tool. It's why I will never increment "Bing";s edit counter with so much as a visit. Google rocks. --]''''']''''' 03:56, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
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	::In response to your edit summary, coming across gems like this, a great web tool, and (yours, again!), things that either magnify or fill in your knowledge is the great argument in favor of having a ref desk. And no ref desk without ref desk editors. ] (]) 04:07, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
			==Barnstar==
			]. Thanks for your work on drafts! ] (]) 13:25, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
			== Precious anniversary ==
			{{User QAIbox/auto|years=Six}}
			]. --] (]) 07:47, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
			:That's a nice date for a precious anniversary, Gerda, and I hope you all ] (yes, I know it has nothing to do with ]; I still wish everyone a better 2024 than 2023, and you're missed, Jayron) ---] ] 02:34, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
			==Happy Adminship Anniversary!==
			<!-- ##RW UNDERDATE## -->
			{{ombox
			| name = Happy Adminship
			| image = ]
			| imageright = ]
			| style = border: 2px solid SlateBlue; background: linear-gradient(300deg, AliceBlue, Honeydew 30%, Honeydew 70%, AliceBlue);
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			| plainlinks = yes
			| text = <big>'''Happy adminship anniversary!'''</big><br />Hi Jayron32! On behalf of the ], I'd like to wish you a very happy anniversary of your . Enjoy this special day! ] (]) 02:35, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
			}}
			==Orphaned non-free image File:Wolleh magritte.jpg==
			] Thanks for uploading ''']'''. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Misplaced Pages under a ]. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Misplaced Pages. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Misplaced Pages (see ]).
			Note that any non-free images not used in any '''articles''' will be deleted after seven days, as described in ]. Thank you.<!-- Template:Di-orphaned fair use-notice --> --] (]) 04:06, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
			== Hope you're well ==
			It's been a bit over 5 month since your last edit so I checked your xtools and noticed you've only gone two separate months without editing since 2007. Hope you're doing well and that you're away for all the best reasons! ] (]) 23:47, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
			:He's active elsewhere on the internet so he's certainly well. Last time I spoke to him he told me that the reason why he stopped editing Misplaced Pages was that he was having trouble accessing his account, but that was several months ago, so maybe he's stepped away for other reasons. --] 11:48, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
			::I do hope you're right and that that's the case @]. If so, hopefully he can reach out and get some assistance with regaining access to his account. I know myself and others definitely miss them! ] (]) 11:51, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
			:: I've been missing Jayron's cheery presence, too, and trust all is well in his world. -- ] </sup></span>]] 19:50, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
			== Edelman Family Foundation ==
			Hello @]
			I am reaching out to you because of your previous participation in one of the discussions regarding the reliability and neutrality of ''HuffPost/Pink News/ProPublica'' as sources used on Misplaced Pages.
			Currently, there is an ongoing issue with the ] in the ] Misplaced Pages article. The section appears to be biased and lacks a balanced representation of the foundation's activities, as it primarily focuses on a single controversial donation while neglecting to mention the organization's numerous other significant contributions to various causes.
			I would like to invite you to participate in the ] to address the concerns surrounding the section's neutrality and explore ways to improve its content. ] (]) 18:09, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
			== Henry Every ==
			Hi @]
			Are you able to add the attached article that appeared in The Guardian on 31 March 2024 about Henry Avery to Henry Every Misplaced Pages page.
			The URL is attached: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/30/explorers-unlock-the-mystery-of-pirate-king-henry-avery-who-vanished-after-huge-heist-at-sea ] (]) 00:39, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
			== June 2024 ==
			You are involved in a recently filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at ] and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. As threaded discussion is not permitted on most arbitration pages, please ensure that you make all comments in your own section only. Additionally, the ] and the ] may be of use.
			Thanks,<!-- Template:Arbcom notice --> — ] ] 06:57, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
			== Anachronist case request declined ==
			The ] has been declined. For the Arbitration Committee, <b>]]</b>&nbsp;(]&nbsp;·&nbsp;he/they) 21:38, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
			== Good article reassessment for ] ==
			] has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the ]. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. ] (]) 19:04, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
			==Hello!==
			Hi, Jayron32,
			I was just noticing that you haven't edited since last September, you are getting close to "inactive" status of 12 months. I'd hate if we lost you as an administrator as I've been looking at some old ANI pages and I really admire the way you closed what seemed like long, drawn out, unwieldy discussions on that noticeboard. We could really use you back if you have the time and inclination.
			I understand about taking a WikiBreak, I stopped editing from 2016-2018 when I moved cross-country and had some health issues. I hope your off-wiki life is going well and I look forward to seeing your return should you wish to come back into the trenches. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 02:26, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
			:I'd like to say the same thing! I've always really enjoyed reading your contributions. ] (]) 18:37, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
			== Pending suspension of administrative permissions due to inactivity ==
			] Established ] provides for removal of the administrative permissions of users who have not made any edits or logged actions in the preceding twelve months. Because you have been inactive, your administrative permissions will be removed&#32;if you do not return to activity within the next month.
			Inactive administrators are encouraged to rejoin the project in earnest rather than to make token edits to avoid loss of administrative permissions. Resources and support for reengaging with the project are available at ]. If you do not intend to rejoin the project in the foreseeable future, please consider voluntarily resigning your administrative permissions by making a request at ].
			Thank you for your past contributions to the project. <!-- Template:Inactive admin -->—&thinsp;] 00:27, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
			:Hope you've been well and that you're away for positive reasons Jayron, we miss you! ] (]) 14:45, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
			== Imminent suspension of administrative permissions due to inactivity ==
	==Dispute Resolution RFC==
	Hello.As a member of ] I am just letting you know that there is an RFC discussing changes to dispute resolution on Misplaced Pages. You can find the RFC ]. <small>If you have already commented there, please disregard this message.</small> Regards, <font face="Verdana">] ] <sup>]</sup></font> 08:52, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
	== JP Manoux asking more questions ==
			] Established ] provides for removal of the administrative permissions of users who have not made any edits or logged actions in the preceding twelve months. Because you have been inactive, your administrative permissions will be removed&#32;if you do not return to activity within the next several days.
	Seems he'd like a swift resolution and hasn't heard from WMF yet. --]&nbsp;] 15:51, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
	:I'll make a few contacts. I haven't heard squat either. --]''''']''''' 21:32, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
			Inactive administrators are encouraged to rejoin the project in earnest rather than to make token edits to avoid loss of administrative permissions. Resources and support for reengaging with the project are available at ]. If you do not intend to rejoin the project in the foreseeable future, please consider voluntarily resigning your administrative permissions by making a request at ].
	==Talkback==
	{{talkback|Heatherawalls|Apologize for some impertinent words|ts=22:19, 28 September 2012 (UTC)}}
	] (]) 22:19, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
			Thank you for your past contributions to the project. <!-- Template:Inactive admin -->—&thinsp;] 00:07, 23 September 2024 (UTC)
	== Mars Hill College ==
			==Orphaned non-free image File:Weezer Africa Album Cover.jpeg==
			] Thanks for uploading ''']'''. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Misplaced Pages under a ]. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Misplaced Pages. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Misplaced Pages (see ]).
			Note that any non-free images not used in any '''articles''' will be deleted after seven days, as described in ]. Thank you.<!-- Template:Di-orphaned fair use-notice --> --] (]) 18:13, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
	Can someone tell me how to cite correctly then?
			== Suspension of administrative permissions due to inactivity ==
	I have several websites. I tried to cite it with the actual Mars Hill College website...I want this to be added but nobody has responded to my request for help. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 04:50, 29 September 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
			] Established ] provides for removal of the administrative permissions of users who have not made any edits or logged actions in the preceding twelve months. Because you have been inactive, your administrative permissions have been removed.
	:Well, it looks like you handled the referencing process OK. Just use http://www.mhc.edu/about-mhc instead of the Misplaced Pages article, and you should be fine. --]''''']''''' 04:52, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
			Subject to certain time limits and other restrictions, your administrative permissions may be returned upon request at ].
	OK. So, when I hit the 'cite this source' I can just add the http://www.mhc.edu/about-mhc for the citation and that will be enough? I don't know how many sources I need to use? I don't want it to look like false information. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 04:54, 29 September 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
	:Yeah, just use the "cite" tab in the edit window, then click the "templates" pulldown, select "cite web" and fill out the form. Use that address as the URL, put the title of the page under title, enter the date you accessed the page, etc. Just fill it all out, and it will insert it for you. --]''''']''''' 04:57, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
			Thank you for your past contributions to the project. <!-- Template:Inactive admin -->— ] <sup>]</sup> 14:07, 1 October 2024 (UTC)
	Great! Thank you a lot for your help. I just cited that source so hopefully it should be ok now. Do you think you could take a look at it and make sure for me? If not, that is quite ok. I think it should be good now though. Thanks again for your help. ] (]) 04:59, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
	:{{like}} Looks good to me. --]''''']''''' 05:01, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
			:I hope you are well. There was a time in Wiki when friends used to comment when some long term contributor became inactive. Nobody posted any comments for Jayron. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 14:12, 30 November 2024 (UTC)</small>
	Hello again. I thought I had it all worked out on this page but two people have pulled it from the page and I don't really understand why. One said it still wasn't cited correctly and another said it shouldn't be on there to begin with. I saw that you were a Wiki-Admin and I don't know if you can do anything about this? I thought since MHC was both the oldest college in western NC and a historic site it fit that section. Is there anything you can do about this? Thanks in advance] (]) 16:43, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
			::What's ] and ], then? --] 19:08, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
			==Notice of a discussion I think you'd be interested in knowing about==
	== emcorrectionalfacilification ==
			Hey Jay, I thought you might want to be aware of ] (which includes not just the linked to thread, but a much larger one further above on VP/WMF). In summary, it appears that the WMF is prepared to imminently disclose personally identifying information about volunteers in a controversial Indian court case, where a news agency is attempting to suppress Misplaced Pages's tertiary coverage of the content secondary sources (which it considers unflattering) by going after Misplaced Pages and a number of its individual editors as defendants. In order to comply with court orders in the case, it seems the WMF is prepared to share this information in what a number of us consider a pretty seismically bad idea and betrayal of community priorities and values (the WMF has also already used an office action to remove an article reporting on the case, at the direction of the court for what said court regards as legitimate ] reasons).
			While the deletion of the article has been framed by the WMF as temporary step to preserve appeal on the overall case, and there are mixed feelings in the community response as to that so far, there is a much more uniform opposition to throwing the individual editors (at least one of whom is located in India and has profound apprehension about what this could mean for his life with regard to litigation and beyond) under the bus. And yet the WMF appears to be prepared to share the information in question, as soon as Nov. 8. Can I impose upon you to take a look at the matter and share your perspective? '']]'' 00:26, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
	Did you miss the third to the last comment on ? ] (]) 18:04, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

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Latest revision as of 07:00, 1 December 2024

This user is not currently active on Misplaced Pages. Jayron32 has not edited Misplaced Pages since 14 September 2023. As a result, any requests made here may not receive a response. If you are seeking assistance, you may need to approach someone else.

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Happy New Year, Jayron32!

Happy New Year!

Jayron32,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Misplaced Pages.
— Moops 04:52, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

   Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.

— Moops 04:52, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Thank you

Hi @Jayron32, I wanted to thank you for defending my position in the disagreement I've been having with Fram. I felt strongly supported, and even though I know you weren't standing up for me as an editor but rather for the actions I performed, the result was the same. I could definitely have conducted myself better in the way I communicated with Fram, and I will do my best to be less reactive when my buttons are pushed. I also accept the point about my seeming alacrity to "bite" new editors (though it isn't my intention to do so) and will strive to be more patient in that area. Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 03:16, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. I do want to make clear I wasn't particularly supporting your position in the debate per se. I'm not entirely sure who is right and who is wrong, but that's a content matter to be resolved via the normal dispute resolution processes. My only concern is that Fram's position that you were vandalizing was beyond the pale, and they needed to walk that back. --Jayron32 04:52, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – January 2023

News and updates for administrators from the past month (December 2022).

Administrator changes

• ComplexRational
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Stephen

• Andrew Yong
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Interface administrator changes

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Oversighter changes

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Guideline and policy news

• Speedy deletion criterion A5 (transwikied articles) has been repealed following an unopposed proposal.

Arbitration

• Following the 2022 Arbitration Committee elections, the following editors have been appointed to the Arbitration Committee: Barkeep49, CaptainEek, GeneralNotability, Guerillero, L235, Moneytrees, Primefac, SilkTork.
• The 2021-22 Discretionary Sanctions Review has concluded with many changes to the discretionary sanctions procedure including a change of the name to "contentious topics". The changes are being implemented over the coming month.
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Miscellaneous

• Voting for the Sound Logo has closed and the winner is expected to be announced February to April 2023.
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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 01:08, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

Happy Fifteenth Adminship Anniversary!

Wishing Jayron32 a very happy adminship anniversary on behalf of the Misplaced Pages Birthday Committee! Chris Troutman (talk) 20:18, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

Holy fuck. 15 years. Damn it. This feels less like a congratulation and more like a condemnation.... --Jayron32 20:22, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

Hello

First, thank you for your kindness. I felt extremely humbled being described as a friend by a respected and experienced editor of the encyclopedia. I have a small request, if you could spare the time. Can you go through my contributions, to the article namespace and the project namespace, and give me a general review of my editing, as well as some advice about what I can do to improve my contributions?

Thanks in advance.

The ⬡ Bestagon /_C 12:45, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

I'm seeing lots of good work. Your recently created article on the Territory of the Comoros looks really good, and your contributions to the Misplaced Pages space looks civil, thoughtful, and well presented. Keep up the good work! If you've got any more specific questions, please let me know! --Jayron32 12:59, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Nomination of This Is Fort Apache for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article This Is Fort Apache is suitable for inclusion in Misplaced Pages according to Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/This Is Fort Apache until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished.

---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 16:34, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

FYI...

Regarding this, it seems like the editor is being deliberately obtuse. I posted him at AIV for ref desk trolling, but the admin rejected it. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 17:46, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

Actually, I don't agree with that. There's some WP:CIR stuff going on here, likely some problems with English as a Second Language, but I don't see anything that leads me to believe they are acting in bad faith. Not every trainwreck is deliberate... --Jayron32 18:11, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

Rogereeny. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 21:06, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

Mail

Hello, Jayron32. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

Therapyisgood (talk) 05:11, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

@Therapyisgood: The best way to handle this is to file a report at WP:ANI. --Jayron32 09:49, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – February 2023

News and updates for administrators from the past month (January 2023).

Administrator changes Gimmetrow Bjelleklang Bob the Wikipedian Leithp WhisperToMe 100 inactive admins

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• The Vector 2022 skin has become the default for desktop users of the English Misplaced Pages.

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• The arbitration case Armenia-Azerbaijan 3 has been opened and the proposed decision is expected 24 February 2023.
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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 01:38, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for help with Cochise County

Unfortunately, the editor in question enjoys "making things up" (I'm being far too polite there). His/her claim "According to www.cochise.az.gov no films and television films shot in Cochise county" is false, as also a previous claim "Imdb states that no film or tv series were filmed in Cochise county". With regard to the latter, IMDB lists 10 locations for the The Sheriff of Cochise TV series, all of which are in Cochise County. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0159207/locations

I understand that IMDB has been declared an unreliable source; be that as it may, the point is the editor's false representations. (And other sources confirm the location, such as https://www.myheraldreview.com/news/cochise_county/when-the-sheriff-of-cochise-ruled-the-land-and-tv/article_f3487fe8-35e1-11ed-adca-d3bb48315c05.html .)

The editor was left "If you continue to disrupt Misplaced Pages..." messages on the talk page User talk:Daniu99 in late November '22 regarding similar behavior, all apparently to little or no avail then, and nothing seems to have come of the warnings. The disruptions have now started again, repeatedly, in the Cochise County article. As an administrator, could you please help to cool this person's jets? His/her dishonest disruptions serve only to waste the time of more responsible editors. TIA for any help. Barefoot through the chollas (talk) 18:40, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

The editor in question has not, since I made the fix, done any further editing to the Cochise County article. If they continue to be disruptive, WP:ANI may be the place to go. I don't generally respond to personal requests to use my administrator tools on my user talk page, I prefer to keep such requests in a public forum like ANI where they can be scrutinized. --Jayron32 18:47, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

I've tweaked the text to "filmed on location in Cochise County". If s/he continues disrupting for no justified reason, I'll go the ANI route. As you see on the editor's contribs page, the issue is by no means just this instance. Barefoot through the chollas (talk) 19:52, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

Recusal?

This discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
On the 1st you wrote "Perhaps I would have had more to say about the matter had it just come here first, but given the prior inappropriate attempt to cherry pick me as an admin to respond, I am recusing myself from any further involvement." but the editing history which follows is curious because instead of recusing yourself you become extremely involved... We have on the 2nd, on the 8th, and on the 9th. Seems like you need to do some striking, either of the recusal or of all of the comments violating that recusal. I hope you appreciate me bringing this to you privately instead of making it a big deal at ANI. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 16:38, 9 February 2023 (UTC) I don't believe I had any further comments on BeanieFan11's behavior, or on sanctioning him, I don't believe. They are all about issues related to AFD and the NSPORTS policy discussion. As far as I am aware, I made no further comments on sanctioning BeanieFan11 as I said wouldn't. I have a standing policy not to use my admin tools when anyone requests me directly to do so here on my talk page, and I have not done so. If you have evidence that I have used my admin tools inappropriately, then by all means, provide diffs for that. The diffs above show me commenting on a policy discussion. --Jayron32 16:43, 9 February 2023 (UTC) Are you under the impression that recusing yourself from a discussion means not using your admin tools? Thats not recusal, that's expected of all involved admins automatically. Your statement makes it very clear that what you're recusing yourself from is further involvement and the discussion. If you're not going to do that then strike the false recusal. You do also explicitly comment on sanctions. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 16:48, 9 February 2023 (UTC) (edit conflict)x2 Actually, I do see that there was one further comment I made on BeanieFan11's behavior. I have struck that comment. Thank you for pointing that out. My other comments were not related to the matter I recused myself from, however, and I stand by them. They were clearly about a different matter. --Jayron32 16:50, 9 February 2023 (UTC) You didn't recuse yourself from further comment on BeanieFan11's behavior, you recused yourself from "any further involvement" which literally all of the diffs fall under. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 16:52, 9 February 2023 (UTC) (edit conflict) Also, I was never "involved". At the point where Therapyisgood contacted me above, I had never met either him, nor BeanieFan11, to my knowledge, nor had I ever to my knowledge, been involved in any of the AFD discussions mentioned. (Post EC comment) I think I have explained my understanding of my statements, if you understand them differently than I intended, there's not much I can do about that. If you feel that I am abusing my admin authority, and need to have the tools taken away for that, please start that discussion in the appropriate venue. --Jayron32 16:57, 9 February 2023 (UTC) You said you were involved, you said "further involvement" which means you were already involved. If you weren't that's ok, but then you told a fib. I don't want your tools taken away, I just want you to be honest. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 16:58, 9 February 2023 (UTC) Look, let me lay out the timeline of events for you. 1) On 05:11, 31 January 2023 (see above) Therapyisgood sent me an email. Without getting into the details, it asked me to intervene on the matter at hand. I had never, at any point, been involved in the AFD discussions, with BeanieFan11, or with Therapyisgood, in any manner at all. Never met them, never saw the AFDs, never been involved in the Wikiproject, none of it. Out of the blue, he sent me an email. I told him to go to ANI instead, because I don't respond to private requests to use my admin tools. The thread was started at ANI. 2) At 16:06, 1 February 2023 (UTC) Bagumba asked at that thread "Was there any attempt to deal with this one-on-one before escalating to a noticeboard?" where I replied explaining that I had directed Therapyisgood to start the thread, and that I had not intended on commenting on the matter further. 3) Someone started a different discussion on a policy matter I thought was interesting and I commented on that thread at 16:36, 2 February 2023 (UTC). I had not, at this point, been involved in any dispute over the policy matter at hand, and I didn't (and don't) consider my backing away from the sanctioning discussion over BeanieFan11's behavior to have prevented me from commenting on a policy discussion. I did not fib, I did not lie. It is true that on Feb 8, I did make a comment on BeanieFan11's behavior, which I have now struck, as you requested. I'm not going to strike comments that had nothing to do with my original statement. If that bothers you, seek relief elsewhere. --Jayron32 17:11, 9 February 2023 (UTC) None of that explains why you wrote "further involvement" if in fact that wasn't true and you hadn't been involved. How can it be true that you were already involved and also not involved at all? One of these statements has to be a fib, either Jayron32 who said they were involved is fibbing or Jayron32 who said they weren't involved is fibbing. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 17:51, 9 February 2023 (UTC) On the off chance that this is a misunderstanding due to an imperfection in the English language, and I can somehow make a small incremental contribution to peace on Earth: "Involve" has more than one meaning in English, and WP's interpretation adds even one more meaning to those in the dictionary. When Jayron says "further involvement", it's pretty obvious to me that he means "further participation", not "further WP:INVOLVEment". Jayron never said he was WP:INVOLVED in the WP sense of the word (and, looking things over, I would agree he is not WP:INVOLVED in any way). Speaking of meanings of words, "fib" can only ever mean an intentional lie, albeit about something minor. I'd stop using it 3-4 times in a sentence. I'ds stop using it at all. Floquenbeam (talk) 18:07, 9 February 2023 (UTC) I also interpreted it to mean "further participation" but I was told that wasn't the case by Jayron32. Nor does it appear accurate as they participated a *ton* after that (hence my challenging their participation and them countering by only striking a single edit which pertained to sanctions and not their participation). Horse Eye's Back (talk) 18:10, 9 February 2023 (UTC) OK, short for "further participation in decisions about BeanieFan11", then. Anyway, I guess I didn't help, so I'll bow out before I contribute to making this molehill into any more of a mountain. Floquenbeam (talk) 18:19, 9 February 2023 (UTC) (edit conflict) Isn't the "further" still a problem because the claim is that there was no participation in decisions about BeanieFan11 prior to that? Anyways I'm dropping the stick, I hope that Jayron32 will understand that going forward that their statement was most obviously interpreted as a pledge to recuse themselves from "further involvement" and not as whatever incredibly nuanced thing they apparently meant by it. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 18:29, 9 February 2023 (UTC) (edit conflict) As I noted, my meaning was further participation in the sanctioning discussion. The discussion over policy was unrelated, in my mind, to the initial discussion. Also, since you really seem hung up on "further", I meant "subsequent to this comment" not "I've been dealing with this previously". Also also, have we beaten this dead horse enough? Either you think I'm a lying liar who lies, or we're having an inconsequential misunderstanding over a difference regarding some minor word choices. If it's the former, fine, whatever, I'm not going to convince you I'm not. You believe whatever you want to believe, I can't convince you out of something like that. Continue to believe it if you want. If it's the latter, I'm pretty sure I've adequately explained what I had meant at this point; further elaboration is unlikely to put any more light on my initial intent. Either way, can we let this matter go, at least in terms of my user talk page. If you need any more action done on this matter, take it to ANI or ArbCom or something like that. I have no intention of doing anything further discussion here. Please let it drop or escalate it elsewhere. --Jayron32 18:25, 9 February 2023 (UTC) I don't think you're going to find widespread support for the idea that a subtopic is unrelated to its topic. Keep that in mind going forward. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 18:29, 9 February 2023 (UTC) I have no intention of doing anything further discussion here. Please let it drop or escalate it elsewhere. --Jayron32 18:30, 9 February 2023 (UTC) That was my final reply, hence its finality. Congrats, you've forced me to post on your talk page again? Have a nice evening. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 18:32, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

Unsigned comment

Hello Jayron32, could you please sign your comment on Talk:2023 Turkey–Syria earthquake? Thanks! Renerpho (talk) 15:57, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

Ref. Desk

Why do you put yourself through elaborate self-humiliation rituals when you give a wrong answer on one of the Reference desks?? It really does not gratify my feelings in any way when you do this in response to a mere factual error (it might if it was in response to something personally involving me, but the only such incident was the Chinese cuisine authenticity thread, and you did not abase yourself in that case, as far as I remember). If the elaborateness of the grovelling is disproportionate to the severity of the error, it may give rise to suspicions of insincerity, in which case you're undermining your own apology... AnonMoos (talk) 17:28, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

Look, I'm sorry I gave the wrong information. I really am. I was mistaken, I struck through my incorrect information, and I apologized for being wrong. What further action do you require me to take? --Jayron32 17:33, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

I was not alleging any inadequacy of apology, but exactly the reverse. In many cases a mere acknowledgement of error would be enough, so I really don't see the need or the purpose of grovelling self-abasement. I would be perfectly happy for you to leave the excess drama out when I was the one who pointed out the error... AnonMoos (talk) 17:58, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

Look, all I can say is that most people realize I'm an asshole within seconds of meeting me; I'm honestly shocked when it takes someone as long as you have to come to that conclusion. --Jayron32 18:24, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

I only know you via your work on WP, but I find you to be an extremely helpful and knowledgeable person who's been more than patient with my own dumbnitude. I don't think there's a single regular respondent on the desks who hasn't been caught making a mistake from time to time. My impression is that most people just issue a mea culpa (if that) and move on. Before I got used to them, I thought your apologies were facetious or sarcastic because of their extreme tone. My concern now is more along the lines of your well-being; it's distressing to think how badly you must beat yourself up over real-life blunders. Please treat yourself with care; you deserve it. Matt Deres (talk) 18:40, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

Comments on the Richard Belzer ITN nom

To make my intent clear to you, I'm only describing your comments as unproductive because Andrew has spent literally years ignoring countless almost identical comments and not only should know better, but does know better. He isn't going to change and so I think it's best to shut him off before he can waste the energy of too many others. I'm actually not far off proposing topic banning him from ITN all together tbh. Thryduulf (talk) 03:37, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

I don't think that is a bad idea. --Jayron32 18:51, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

Regarding Muller's video, thank you for posting it.

Hi. Thank you for all your contributions.:-) It's been awhile since I read about Muller's sources. Muller's video was most certainly relevant to the OP's query. Thank you for posting it. In the 80s, I would often hang-out in the NCSU library bookstacks researching the physics' literature and I'm an hour's drive away now. I continue modeling and will likely deposit a paper on Zenodo this spring. Again, thank you for all your contributions. Modocc (talk) 18:57, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

Bans

Here's a hypothetical: Supposing I have an interaction ban with a user, and that user subsequently retires. How, if at all, does that change the terms of the ban? Does it mean I can never work on subjects that user worked on, even though that user would no longer be working on those subjects? ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 12:57, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

Not sure. I find that, 95% of the time, retirements are extremely temporary, though, so keep that in mind. I think, in general, if you have questions about the extent of a ban, asking the admin who notified you of the ban is a good place to start, though, if you have more specific questions. --Jayron32 12:59, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

That's a good point. I'll give it some time. There's no rush. Thank you for your advice. :) ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 16:27, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

Your recent update to Count Rumford entry

While your update to the article is accurate, your "reason summary" is in accurate. A typo of course, but in 1853, very definitely did both American and British identities exist. I'm sure you meant to put 1753, the year of Rumford's birth. JackME (talk) 18:13, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I meant that. It was an anachronism in 1753; American nationality did not exist. --Jayron32 18:15, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

Hey there, not a big deal and nothing about the correction you made to the actual article, but I think you misunderstood my comment to you. You have given as summary explanation for your changes that the American identity did not exist in EIGHTEEN FIFTY THREE. When I'm sure you meant to type SEVENTEEN FIFTY THREE (the year of Rumford's birth) because by 1853, most definitely an American identity DID EXIST. JackME (talk) 18:24, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I meant to say 1753. I screwed up when I typed 1853 in the edit summary bar. I though I just said that. Why are you yelling at me for confirming both that a) I was wrong and b) you were correct to say that I was wrong. How many more times do you need me to tell you that I was wrong when I wrote 1853. Do you want to try yelling at me louder, so I can confirm a third time that I was wrong. Would that make you happy? --Jayron32 18:28, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

Take the stick out of your ass! The uppercase was NOT yelling, but for clearly emphasizing the difference. Sorry I misunderstood your first response. JackME (talk) 19:24, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

You're right. I was an asshole. I'm sorry I responded the way I did, I have no excuse. You did nothing wrong in correcting me. You're right, and I'm wrong. I continue to be the biggest asshole at Misplaced Pages. I'm not sure what else to do about that, other than offer my sincere apology for letting it out against you; you did nothing to deserve that. --Jayron32 19:33, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – March 2023

News and updates for administrators from the past month (February 2023).

Administrator changes The Wordsmith Fuhghettaboutit Spinningspark (deceased)

CheckUser changes Callanecc Oversighter changes Callanecc

Guideline and policy news

• Following a request for comment, F10 (useless non-media files) has been deprecated.
• Following a request for comment, the Portal CSD criteria (P1 (portal subject to CSD as an article) and P2 (underpopulated portal)) have been deprecated.
• A request for comment is open to discuss making the closing instructions for the requested moves process a guideline.

Technical news

• The results of the 2023 Community Wishlist Survey have been posted.

Arbitration

• Remedy 11 ("Request for Comment") of the Conduct in deletion-related editing case has been rescinded.
• The proposed decision for the Armenia-Azerbaijan 3 case is expected 7 March 2023.
• A case related to the Holocaust in Poland is expected to be opened soon.

Miscellaneous

• The 2023 appointees for the Ombuds commission are AGK, Ameisenigel, Bennylin, Daniuu, Emufarmers, Faendalimas, JJMC89, MdsShakil, Minorax and Renvoy as regular members and Zabe as advisory members.
• Following the 2023 Steward Elections, the following editors have been appointed as stewards: Mykola7, Superpes15, and Xaosflux.
• The Terms of Use update cycle has started, which includes a roposal for better addressing undisclosed paid editing. Feedback is being accepted until 24 April 2023.

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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:19, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

User:Wjemather

Wjemather has been unnecessarily undoing good edits from editors (myself and others ) for three years now. Editors have tried reasoning with that person over time, but that person does not want to listen. Several people in private chats have expressed their frustration with that person, simply because they don't know where else to turn to talk of their frustration.

That person's behaviour has not only been unproked, unneeded undoings of valid edits that no one else has ever had a problem with, but hypocritical also; the list is long of the times that that person would spitefully undo the very same type of edits that they themself have done before, throwing logic out the window. In other words, it's okay for themself, but not for others.

One other behaviour that makes that person unreasonable is making things up on the spot: An editor will do a good edit in the traditional way, but then this person in question will undo the edit with the excuse (paraphrasing), "Just because this is the traditional way is not an excuse to keep doing it that way.".

Trying to reason with that person has failed for years with many who have tried.

I've been editing on Misplaced Pages since 2007 and had never had any real problems from an editor until that one. I've been doing the same type of edits in the same way since the beginning, and in early 2020 that person came along and decided to be the first to take their own personal feelings and force feed them onto the Misplaced Pages community with uncalled for retractions that no one else had ever had a problem with. Nitpicking at every single turn, unJusifiably.

Most of that person's edits are undoings,, not additions, meaning the main purpose that person has had over the last three years has been to unneededly undo other people's edits, even when having to make up a reason to do so.

Simply to spite me, that person went and undid a good edit of mine on a page concerning a topic that they no absolutely nothing about:

https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=2022_State_of_the_Union_Address&type=revision&diff=1063538815&oldid=1063093800

Also last year, that person went back on a previously agreed upon standard for preparing the WGC MATCH Play page, one in which that person had willingly agreed to the year before:

https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=2022_WGC-Dell_Technologies_Match_Play&diff=1079435859&oldid=1079434098

It gets worse, you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't; If you do an edit one particular way, that person undoes it and criticizes you, but then if you do the edit the opposite way, that person still undoes it and criticizes you.

I would have to go and do weeks' worth of finding and citing all the examples of that person's gross, uncalled for undoings. For now, I will show a few recent examples of the kinds of edits that no one else ever had a a problem with, but this person is hell bent on interfering with anyway:

Undoing a perfectly good preparation that is done each week on the PGA Tour, for no reason ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Masters_Tournament&type=revision&diff=1141795948&oldid=1141795855

Undoing more preparation that is done as a normal thing in Misplaced Pages, for no reason ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Template%3AThe_Masters_champions&type=revision&diff=1141796145&oldid=1141796054

And those are only two examples of a half a dozen interference type of undoings in the last 24 hours. It takes time and trouble to go and post these here, so I'll stop there for now.

Other times, that person will try to get a page deleted, because in their OPINION the page was made "too early", something of which no one else has ever been known to complain about in recent years. There are links to show proof of this.

After three years of constant interference of spiteful, uncalled for undoings, we will not tolerate it any longer. I have been on here for sixteen years without serious trouble for 13 of them. Over the last three years, this constant hypocritical and unneeded interference won't be tolerated. Even the simple act of letting that person know, they lash back as if you are wronging them in some way, playing the victim.

Since no one has been able to get through to them because of their unreasonableness, we hope maybe you could have a chat with them to see if you can get through. Johnsmith2116 (talk) 19:54, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

@Johnsmith2116: Sorry, I have a personal policy against responding to private requests to act in an administrative capacity here at my user talk page. If you need administrator intervention for a behavioral issue with another user, the correct place to do so is at WP:ANI. --Jayron32 20:41, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

Srebrenica massacre

What needs to happen before I be allowed to edit that aricle again? Also while I am banned from editing the article, does my opinion still count with regards wider discussion? --Coldtrack (talk) 20:40, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

The reason I ask the above is because I still have access to the talk page. --Coldtrack (talk) 21:02, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

If I were you, I'd let that matter go for a while. Try editing in other areas of Misplaced Pages. --Jayron32 09:35, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

JRRobinson

Greetings. Was kind of curious as to why this discussion Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1121#Problematic editor, darts articles was not acted upon? They are still continuing their problematic behavior. Onel5969 11:51, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

It was not acted upon because it was archived before anyone acted upon it. If the issues have not been resolved, start a new thread at WP:ANI with a pointer to the prior discussion, noting that the behavioral issues have not improved. --Jayron32 18:56, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

Album credits are their own source

Regarding your "In the News" nomination of David Lindley (musician), you said the article is 90% ready, needing just a few things including sourcing for the discography. I thought I might mention that album liner notes and record sleeve credits are akin to books: they have a publishing date, identifying number and a publisher (the record label). Basically, they are their own reliable sources. I threw some book credits in the discography as a convenience, kind of like having two cites for important facts. But the "uncited" entries are explicitly naming their source when they name an album title. Binksternet (talk) 03:25, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

I generally agree with you, but anticipate nearly everyone else who will say we need to cite every entry to some third party source. I have always been fine with not requiring every item in a -ography being cited, as one generally assumes the citation is to the work itself, but alas, some people flip their lids unless they see a footnote in every section, common sense be damned. --Jayron32 18:55, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

ITN recognition for Georgina Beyer

On 9 March 2023, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Georgina Beyer, which you updated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. —Bagumba (talk) 02:34, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

Rick Beato

I restored the reference to his recent Keith Jarrett video, but added cited material affirming this particular video is singularly notable in Beato's output and not in fact "a video I watched that I liked" as per your edit summary, though I understand it may have appeared that way without the extra context. Hope there might be some consensus around this. Walton22 (talk) 22:51, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

Seems reasonable. --Jayron32 17:04, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. Also thanks for chronologising. I thought to break the chronology to delineate the take-down notices and copyright claims as an implied new subtopic, but your take is appreciated. Walton22 (talk) 18:52, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

Evackost

is at UTRS. OK to leave blocked, but vanish? -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 16:06, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

IMHO, yes, leave them blocked, but help them with the Vanish procedure would probably be best. Whatever needs to be done to complete the WP:RTV request would be great. --Jayron32 16:14, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. I just need to make an explanatory note and click some buttons. (Vanishing is not really possible. We delude ourselves, but it always leaves traces.) -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 17:08, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

Of course; talk page signatures and stuff like that. But if we can do the standard "rename the account and lock everything down" that we usually do, that'd be fine. Thanks again! --Jayron32 17:12, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

User asked at the global renaming queue four times, was denied, and was blocked by the Stewards. So it was an end-run that failed. -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 17:27, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

If they had come to me first, I could have helped them. -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 17:28, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

Hubris67

I left a comment over at User talk:Hubris67 about a block you made, get this, almost 15 years ago. Looking for your thoughts on a possible unblock. -- Yamla (talk) 13:06, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

No worries

All's good. :) Valereee (talk) 15:39, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – April 2023

News and updates for administrators from the past month (March 2023).

Administrator changes Aoidh KillerChihuahua

CheckUser changes Ferret

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• A community RfC is open to discuss whether reports primarily involving gender-related disputes or controversies should be referred to the Arbitration enforcement noticeboard.

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• A link to the user's Special:CentralAuth page will now appear in the subtitle links shown on Special:Contributions. This was voted #17 in the Community Wishlist Survey 2023.

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• The Armenia-Azerbaijan 3 case has been closed.
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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:11, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for April 7

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited NBA Inside Stuff, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page ABC.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 06:10, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

OTD

Given the amount of work that went into this discussion – 900 words from 11 users – it might have been appropriate to leave it for a while for others interested in the topic. History is complex.– Sca (talk) 14:54, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

"Given the amount of work that went into time that was wasted on this discussion – 900 words from 11 users – it might have been appropriate to leave it for a while for others interested in the topic actually have deleted it a long time ago, because it was a complete embarrassment to everyone involved. It looks like you had a few typos in your comment. I fixed them for you. --Jayron32 15:05, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Bludgeoning

Please allow me to return the favor of directing your attention to some good practices: Misplaced Pages:Don't_bludgeon_the_process#Dealing_with_bludgeoning_the_process

I really did learn something - thanks! Shoreranger (talk) 15:17, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Cool story, bro. --Jayron32 15:21, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Procedural notification

Hi, I and others have proposed additional options at Misplaced Pages:Village_pump_(policy)#RfC_on_a_procedural_community_desysop. You may wish to review your position in that RfC. TonyBallioni (talk) 02:14, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

Thanks for your strong defence of how important AGF is. Your eloquence and sharp writing on this topic is greatly appreciated and a delight to read. I'm glad someone can describe my thoughts on the proposed canvass changes better than I can. Hope you enjoy your weekend and catch plenty of spring sun.

— Ixtal ⁂ Non nobis solum. 01:39, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Thank you very kindly! --Jayron32 11:47, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

Workshopping the god-awful ITN significance standard

Hi Jayron32,

Let's put aside our cynicism for a moment: I have been working on creating a new path to assessing significance at ITN using a criteria that isn't so subjective. This is a long post, so I am going to hat it for your sake.

Purpose
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
The Misplaced Pages:In the news significance criteria currently states that the following principles are useful for assessing consensus: The length and depth of coverage itself The number of unique articles about the topic The frequency of updates about the topic The types of news sources reporting the story In my opinion, these principles would be excellent in determining whether a story is worth posting. However, in practice, we rarely see consistent adherence to these principles leading to the unfortunate outcome that consensus is usually based on a head count. Indeed, the threshold for "length and depth of coverage" could be narrow for some users (like myself) and wide for others. It's clear that demolishing the significance standard outright would not be workable either, for it risks creating the perception that WP:ITN is a news ticker. Yet at the same time, the current standard is contentious and the divides between users are deep and in some cases irreconcilable. This thread seeks to workshop the idea of what a less contentious, less subjective criterion would look like. There is no point in attempting to prescribe a change to our procedures or guidelines as to what kind of items we should be posting to ITN, because there would never be any consensus to achieve this. Instead, the goal should be to find a common ground on rewording the current standard so as to reorient users towards a less adversarial approach to ITN/C.

Background
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Let’s look at the things that presumed notable items do have in common, and those things that presumed non-notable items have in common. Note that all of these would have reliable source coverage: Examples of notable items: National elections, national or international sporting events with large viewership, disasters that affect lots of people, first rocket launches for a nation, wars, assassinations of a major political figure. Examples of non-notable items: Celebrity gossip, subnational elections, political intrigue, athletic records. Examples of grey area items: Lawsuits between two major companies, business mergers, major archeological or scientific discoveries, United Nations directives, moderate disasters in areas that are known for disasters. By categorizing these items, we can see the following commonalities: Notable items impact large amounts of people on a wide scale, whether it’s the population of a country or the whole world. They do not necessarily have to be injured or killed in order for this to happen, nor does there necessarily need to be international crossover, but it is an item that grabs public attention and may impact daily life in a significant way for those concerned Non-notable items are usually ignored because they don’t affect as many people. Or if they do affect people, the impact is not very tangible and at times the news coverage outsizes the actual notability. The grey area items fall somewhere in the middle, in that they affect a lot of people, but the actual degree of the impact is difficult to pinpoint for those outside of that sphere. This is the area that causes the most contention at ITN.

Proposed standard
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Therefore, it seems that rather than a significance standard, we should be assessing based on an impact standard. This would not change how we operate at ITN/C, as the assessment method is still the same. However, the focus would change to determining the degree and scale as to how people are impacted. We can measure this by assessing the news coverage and answering the following questions: Depth: How much news coverage is this item receiving? Impact: How does the story define the impact on people in the region affected, if there is any? Ramifications: For the news category this story is posted under (politics, art, science, sports, etc.), what sort of ramifications are there? Functionally, the types of items that are being posted to ITN would not change, as we are still assessing the significance of the stories, but we now have a clear standard in which we can review items as opposed to the waves of voting that essentially boil down to “it doesn’t affect me, so it must not be important.” In making the criteria more specific and objective, we would no longer apply a blanket, abstract “significance standard”. Instead, we qualitatively assess based on the above criteria, by actually reviewing the news coverage and exploring the details within it. From there, we can reach a consensus around whether these criteria have been satisfied rather than based on a head count. The other advantage to this is that as we continue to use this system, the global consensus on ITN around what items are posted becomes clearer and more definable, which will help other users who might not understand what is required in order for a newsworthy item to actually be posted. Furthermore, we can document the changes over time as consensus changes.

I know you and I have talked before, and you have explained that we already have standards in place for which we should assess something objectively. But I do believe that establishing clarity on significance would create a path to which those standards you speak of can actually be employed and thus enforced.

If you think this is worth trying, I can post it to WT:ITN and get people's input on it. It might be a better idea than just doing away with significance criteria entirely. ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 14:46, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

I think you're going to face an up-hill battle, because people who's purpose is to be cultural gatekeepers will fight vehemently to that role they have created for themselves. I support these efforts, and have no problem with you writing up a proposal of this type. I only hope there's enough consensus to grant some clarity here. --Jayron32 11:47, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Admin's Barnstar
	Thanks for all your good work Andre🚐 18:43, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! I try! --Jayron32 18:44, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

I actually think youre a very fine admin, and very far from the worst. Thanks for re-opening the RFC, nableezy - 14:06, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for saying so. If that were true, I wouldn't keep screwing things like this up, however. --Jayron32 15:01, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

Making a mistake (and it wasnt even really that) isnt a sign of a poor admin, refusing to fix it is. nableezy - 15:20, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

RE: UTRS

Hey. Thanks for your thoughtful closing note. That said, my understanding is that WP:UTRS is for when a blocked user's talk page has been revoked (i.e. {{uw-tparevoked}}). Which is to say, its intended use being to convince UTRS admins—or rather, admin ;)—that talk page access can be restored for the purposes of posting a normal unblock request. El_C 17:08, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll adjust. --Jayron32 17:59, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

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News and updates for administrators from the past month (April 2023).

Administrator changes Spicy Ale jrb Dbachmann DGG (deceased) Jimbo Wales

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• A request for comment about removing administrative privileges in specified situations is open for feedback.

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• Progress has started on the Page Triage improvement project. This is to address the concerns raised by the community in their 2022 WMF letter that requested improvements be made to the tool.

Arbitration

• The proposed decision in the World War II and the history of Jews in Poland case is expected 11 May 2023.

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• The Wikimedia Foundation annual plan 2023-2024 draft is open for comment and input through May 19. The final plan will be published in July 2023.

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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 09:22, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

General Question / Curiosity

Hi there, Jayron. Seeing how you have taken some interest in the current RM over at National League I figured I would pose a question to you, being an administrator. I'm curious to know where the line of WP:Canvassing is. There were a few posts that made me raise an eyebrow.

• Example 1
• Example 2
• Example 3

I will say that I made a similar post over on WP:Baseball, but it's the language of the other posts that made me most interested as to where the line was between notification to interested parties and canvasing with the intention of influencing an outcome. Given the current state of the discussion on the RM, I figured this would be worth questioning.

Please don't take this inquiry as anything other than a general curiosity. I actually !voted in favor of the RM and I think it's a good idea, so I'm certainly not attempting to influence in the other direction. Thanks, Skipple ☎ 00:00, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

I think that the wording of those notices could be taken as non-neutral. They should really only be worded as "There's a discussion you may be interested in" and that's about it. --Jayron32 09:17, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

This is helpful: Misplaced Pages:Canvassing#Inappropriate_notification. Ocaasi 14:33, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Criticism of content, not the contributor

Jayron32, in order to not keep the discussion at Talk:United States#US territorial evolution animation on topic, I respond to your accusation here. Again, I'm sorry that you felt personally attacked, but according to WP:What is considered to be a personal attack?, I still disagree with your accusation that my explicit criticism of the proposed exclusion of mention of Native American removal and assimilation from the caption about US territorial expansion as conforming with narratives of denial, constitutes an attack against you personally. I clearly commented on the content, not on the contributor.

I know you're my colleague and not my enemy, and that's why I want to clear up this misunderstanding. إيان (talk) 15:58, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

We're cool. Apology accepted; though be careful of ascribing motive where you don't know it. Carefully choosing your phrasing doesn't change the nature of the attack; and the issue wasn't that you called me a name, it's that you accused me of engaging in an action (denialism) that I was not. Playing games with the words doesn't change how the commentary lands. If you want to say it wasn't a personal attack, fine. But it was rude, incivil, and a clear violation of WP:AGF to say that I was engaging in things I had not done. Still, I don't want to belabor this anymore than it has, your apology is accepted, no hard feelings, I am aware that we both are trying to improve the article in question. Carry on. --Jayron32 16:07, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Request to have a look at my ANI request

Hello. I have chose you randomly to ask you to have a look at my ANI request made days ago: Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Arkenstrone: baseless accusations. Veverve (talk) 19:10, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Then you have disqualified me from commenting. I have a personal policy that I don't respond to personal requests to administrate. You'll have to wait for someone else. --Jayron32 11:35, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

(WP:TPW comment) - I have to say, that is a rather interesting self-policy. I tend to try to be a nice person and often will at least go look if someone leaves a note on my talk page. But the more I think about your policy, the more I like it. : ) - jc37 15:16, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

I'll be helpful all the time if it doesn't involve my role as an admin. Like, if you say "Hey, I wrote this bit here, can you read it over and clean it up a bit" or "Hey, I'm trying to find sources on this, but am running into some trouble, can you help a but", I will almost always pitch in. There's something kinda dirty about hand-selecting the judge-jury-and-executioner you want to deal with your enemies, however, and I'll have no part of that. --Jayron32 15:18, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

I understand. And I think it's a fair position on WP:INVOLVED. The more I think about it, the more it grows on me. That said, myself, I think I'll still wobble towards helping. But you've really given me some food for thought. - jc37 15:50, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

I chose you randomly... Veverve (talk) 15:48, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

And yet, I'm still not going to act on your request. Vaya con dios. --Jayron32 15:50, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

Ren (British musician)

Thank you for removing the Notability template. I was almost through checking that all the citations were in order when half of the article was removed and some of the citations we had just timestamped. Kiwatts (talk) 02:23, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

I can't put citations for the remaining items that need them without it essentially being a revert. They deleted the birth registry citation, the the YouTube community page citation where Ren writes the month and day of his birth, all of the Justin Hawkins YouTube Interview timestamped citations from the Early life section. I was under the impression they were okay. was I wrong? Kiwatts (talk) 08:52, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

I agree with the discography change. Kiwatts (talk) 09:05, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

I moved these comments to the talk page Kiwatts (talk) 09:17, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

After I reworked the Trick the Fox section based on the Justin Hawkins Interview you added I started working on adding all the timestamps to the citations and making sure the rest of the article was properly cited. I had done a large percentage of it and had to take a break.

23:20 12 May 2023 is when Drmies started editing and removing several areas. Including the YouTube timestamped references along with secondary references and information from the infobox. You can see the comments made.

You will need to select to view the last 100 edits

I agree with what was done to the Discography.

Mackey79 and I were already talking about it in the Discography section @ 19:36, 12 May 2023

I wasn't sure exactly what to do about the youtube citations being removed or what I needed to do differently about sourcing The Big Push section they completely removed saying there were no secondary sources for the claims. I had two sources at the end. That is when I made that post to you. That is also why I asked if there was a tutorial on citation placement.

I waited a bit but decided to work on it by myself and added additional sources, removed a line, and added another. I added info back to the infobox with citations. and recited the removed YouTube citations with this in the edit box.  Citation from Justin Howkins' Interview with Ren. This is information Ren would be reasonably expected to know)

21:54, 14 May 2023‎ Drmies started editing again.

you can see the comments (and why I said what I did about the instruments he plays and occupations)

I used a different secondary source because the one I used prior to that didn't state all of the things he was questioning and the new source did.

Then Drmies posted on my profiles talk section. You can look rather than me going into detail. I

I wanted to answer here instead of the Ren talk page so it didn't make things worse and have the talk page be something it shouldn't.

Sorry if you were blindsided. I don't think Drmies is reading the talk page anyway. I'm up early today because my nurse came early. They had an appointment. Kiwatts (talk) 18:13, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

So I don't have a lot of insight into specifically why Drmies did what they did, so you'll need to ask them directly, but all I can say is that having a source (like the Hawkins interview) is a necessary condition to add something, but it is not sufficient. Just because something has a source doesn't mean that it fits in the article (it could be irrelevant or trivial or inaccurate or badly written or any number of other issues that are too many to all list here) and just having a source doesn't prevent something from being removed for an issue that is unrelated to verifiability. If you want specific reasons why Drmies removed some specific text, however, you'll need to ask them. --Jayron32 18:17, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

I'm not asking for you to get involved just letting you know what is going on. I'm obviously not cut out for this. Thank you Kiwatts (talk) 18:27, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

Vyyyrhastar:

We need a in addition to , for things like DMacks (talk) 03:43, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

Hey

Jayron32, This is a new editor and this IP address is shared by hundreds of people, what is with that long list of names and dates on the method of loci article? Should not it be turned into a clickable link216.168.139.240 (talk)anany 216.168.139.240 (talk) 15:11, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

Possibly, but the names serve a purpose. The names are a citation showing which sources one can find the original information in. When you remove those sources (no matter how they are formatted), that makes it impossible for anyone to know what the sources were. Also, replacing those sources with personal commentary is not useful. --Jayron32 15:13, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

I understand now. I apologize for the trouble I have caused, I will make sure to remember this in the future. Thank you. 216.168.139.240 (talk) 15:18, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

Hello, I am a recent changes patroller. There is a link but the url rotted; I have redirected note 2 to the correct content.   –Skywatcher68 (talk) 16:32, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

Hey, I apologize. I hope we're good.

I wholeheartedly apologize for making it come off as if I was accusing you of anything or for anything I said where it came off as if I was putting words in your mouth or anything. Was never my intention~ I'm just generally annoyed by the amount of controversy lately that these version history articles have created, generally by the same general group of editors who would much rather have articles deleted rather than improved, where in most cases, Misplaced Pages policy recommends deletion only as a last resort, if articles can't be improved to no longer violate policy. I also just generally disagree with the ways in which WP:CHANGELOG have been interpreted, mainly to use a very loose definition of what exhaustive means, but that's why i originally created the proposal. I just generally don't understand why tables create so much controversy but thats a debate I don't want to have on your talk page. I just wanted to genuinely say that I'm sorry. :( I am very argumentative due to brain chemistry stuff, and sometimes it makes me argue irrationally. I try to control it but it's just really hard, sadly. But yeah I genuinely do hope that we're okay. - Evelyn Marie (leave a message · contributions) 17:40, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, we're fine. I recognize the investment you've made in this topic, and I want to make clear I'm not disagreeing with you on most points just to be antagonistic. I generally find myself in the middle ground on this matter; I think Misplaced Pages covering the history of important software is fine, but I also think that the content of these articles goes too far into the weeds, and could stand for better narrative flow. I think the entire area could stand for a wider amount of voices (which I was trying to provide) and that the same people on both sides could stand to let it rest for a bit.--Jayron32 17:51, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

St. Louis, Missouri - Union or Confedrate?

In the Little House on the Prairie season 4 episode The Inheritance, a lawyer from St Louis had a box containing Confederate money. https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#St._Louis,_Missouri_-_Union_or_Confedrate? 86.130.77.121 (talk) 21:06, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

I have no interest carrying on ref desk threads on my user talk page. --Jayron32 16:09, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

A small, humble request

Hello Jayron32. About 6 million years ago, I spent hours upon untold, unending hours arguing my head off in a fever swamp discussion about whether or not every single school in the US should have its own Misplaced Pages article. That permanently warped my brain. I can't read those fever swamp threads anymore. My soul is sucked into a negative vortex and the universe collapses into a mote in a used car salesman's eye. So just now I posted on that d*mn Fox News thread, but I have no idea where my post should have gone.... you seem to know what's going on... as a tiny favor... pretty please... could you refactor it for me? Thanks. § Lingzhi (talk|check refs) 12:13, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

 Done --Jayron32 16:15, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

• Thank you...! § Lingzhi (talk|check refs) 21:34, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Notices

I have a question for you. Is there any reason why when it is posted on someone’s talk page about a notice (i.e. AnI and the such) that it doesn’t link to the actual conversation so that users do not need to scroll through all of the discussions to find the one they are listed at? I’ve noticed the topic does not always include the user name. I’ve noticed this at other boards as well. 2600:8801:CA05:EF00:D41E:2828:7AA7:A58D (talk) 16:57, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

{{ANI-notice}} does contain fields to link to the exact topic name on ANI. Sometimes, people don't fill it in. The reason is behavioral, and not technical, and there's nothing we can really do about it, we can't force people to fill in that field of the template, or to link to the correct conversation if they choose to post a notice by manually typing it out. Simply put, people can do it, people should do it, but we really have no way to make people do it. --Jayron32 17:02, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

https://jacobin.com/2022/02/maidan-protests-neo-nazis-russia-nato-crimea

Remove your ban of discussion about this or I will report you to the site moderators and have them remove your ban. I do not need your permission to defend Jacobin and Misplaced Pages is not censored. Chances last a finite time (talk) 12:41, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

I would strongly advise you to not report anyone (read WP:BOOMERANG), and wp:cir. Slatersteven (talk) 12:47, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

How dare you insult me by calling me incompetent? Chances last a finite time (talk) 13:03, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

I am warning you why a report is a bad idea when someone displays as much WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT as you are (pointed out by a number of users, not just me). The RFC was closed as it asked for a ruling on a point no one but you made. Slatersteven (talk) 13:11, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

• Cool story, bro. --Jayron32 14:52, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Notice of noticeboard discussion

There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Chances last a finite time (talk) 21:50, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Closure

What an excellent summation of the facts you made at that closure for Jack. Very nicely written and a great conclusion. — MaxnaCarta  ( 💬 • 📝 ) 13:54, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! --Jayron32 14:36, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

I'd like to second MaxnaCarta. That was a very difficult discussion to read, with many different factors and opposing/overlapping arguments, and your close was very well written with a good explanation. Thank you for your work! JML1148 (talk | contribs) 01:47, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Enjoy your time off!

As it says on the tin. DMacks (talk) 21:25, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Minor shenanigans by the archive bot

Greetings! Spotted something funny: you hatted two discussions at VPP; then one was archived on May 29 without the hat, then the other was archived on May 31 with the hat, but the bot placed the hat above the wrong discussion. Seems like the bot doesn't keep hats intact when they span multiple discussions. (This confused both me and the good ActivelyDisinterested; I've now fixed it).

I'll report it to the bot operator in case there's a way to fix it. And by the way, enjoy your holidays! DFlhb (talk) 07:05, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Bot operator is inactive so I've notified Misplaced Pages:Bot request instead. Best, DFlhb (talk) 07:27, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – June 2023

News and updates for administrators from the past month (May 2023).

Administrator changes Ingenuity Ddstretch Prodego Resolute

CheckUser changes Courcelles

Guideline and policy news

• Following an RfC, editors indefinitely site-banned by community consensus will now have all rights, including sysop, removed.
• As a part of the Wikimedia Foundation's IP Masking project, a new policy has been created that governs the access to temporary account IP addresses. An associated FAQ has been created and individual communities can increase the requirements to view temporary account IP addresses.

Technical news

• Bot operators and tool maintainers should schedule time in the coming months to test and update their tools for the effects of IP masking. IP masking will not be deployed to any content wiki until at least October 2023 and is unlikely to be deployed to the English Misplaced Pages until some time in 2024.

Arbitration

• The arbitration case World War II and the history of Jews in Poland has been closed. The topic area of Polish history during World War II (1933-1945) and the history of Jews in Poland is subject to a "reliable source consensus-required" contentious topic restriction.

Miscellaneous

• Following a community referendum, the arbitration policy has been modified to remove the ability for users to appeal remedies to Jimbo Wales.

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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:33, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – July 2023

News and updates for administrators from the past month (June 2023).

Administrator changes

Novem Linguae

• Deckiller
• Electionworld
• MBisanz
• Penwhale
• Raul654
• Roadrunner
• Viridae
• Yannismarou

Bureaucrat changes

MBisanz

Guideline and policy news

• Contributions to the English Misplaced Pages are now released under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License (CC BY-SA 4.0) license instead of CC BY-SA 3.0. Contributions are still also released under the GFDL license.

Technical news

• Discussion is open regarding a proposed global policy regarding third-party resources. Third-party resources are computer resources that reside outside of Wikimedia production websites.

Arbitration

• Two arbitration cases are currently open. Proposed decisions are expected 5 July 2023 for the Scottywong case and 9 July 2023 for the AlisonW case.

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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 12:58, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

You're back early.

 — Amakuru (talk) 12:08, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

I'm like a ninja. You never know when I'll appear. --Jayron32 12:12, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

ref desk

I've had enough sealioning for one day. --Jayron32 11:34, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
The Reference Desk is for "Ask research questions about any topic except Misplaced Pages itself", and I came here about Misplaced Pages's strong attachment to mainstream corporate media. Tetrasgetras (talk) 17:52, 27 July 2023 (UTC) Cool story bro. --Jayron32 17:53, 27 July 2023 (UTC) I was only there because Misplaced Pages is only attached to mainstream media, and not any other alternative resources whatsoever. Tetrasgetras (talk) 17:56, 27 July 2023 (UTC) Misplaced Pages is not attached to "mainstream media" (which, as an intelligent person, you clearly already know is a dog whistle announcing your own political feelings). Misplaced Pages is attached to reliable sources. --Jayron32 17:57, 27 July 2023 (UTC) "Misplaced Pages is not attached to "mainstream media" Seems pretty self-contradicting since you always use commercially-controlled media as sources, which even if you say its a 'reliable source', they're allowed to lie legally. Tetrasgetras (talk) 18:03, 27 July 2023 (UTC) Cool story, bro. --Jayron32 18:05, 27 July 2023 (UTC) Could you actually respond instead of that? Tetrasgetras (talk) 18:07, 27 July 2023 (UTC) I think that fully captures my feelings, and does not need to be further elaborated. --Jayron32 18:24, 27 July 2023 (UTC) Welp, I guess you cant argue even in the slightest of logic. Tetrasgetras (talk) 18:26, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

Other British monarch requested move discussions currently taking place

Since you recently participated in the Charles III requested move discussion, I thought you might like to know that there are two other discussions currently going on about other British monarch article titles here and here. Cheers. Rreagan007 (talk) 22:28, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

WP:REFUND

Welcome (back?) to WP:REFUND. You may find using the RFUD-helper tool to be helpful. Cheers! - UtherSRG (talk) 16:53, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

You kids and your fancy tools. I'm good typing things in by hand. <old man yells at cloud> --Jayron32 17:26, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

I recommend using RFUD-helper. You restored Draft:Archie Drake but didn't make a minor edit to the page so it was tagged for speedy deletion, CSD G13 again. You have to make an edit to the page after restoration or it becomes immediately eligible for deletion again. So, I untagged it and doing this made an edit to the draft. But if you use the helper tool, it will take care of that step for you. Liz 04:09, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for correcting my mistake! Besides being old, I'm also incorrigibly incompetent. It's always good to have someone around who isn't. --Jayron32 11:31, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – August 2023

News and updates for administrators from the past month (July 2023).

Administrator changes

Firefangledfeathers

• AlisonW
• Amberrock
• Closedmouth
• Scottywong

Interface administrator changes

Novem Linguae

Technical news

• The tag filter on Special:NewPages and revision history pages can now be inverted. This allows hiding edits made by automated tools. (T334338)
• Special:BlockedExternalDomains is a new tool that allows easier blocking of plain domains (and their subdomains). This is more easily searchable and is faster for the software to use than the existing MediaWiki:Spam-blacklist. It does not support regex (for complex cases), URL path-matching, or the MediaWiki:Spam-whitelist. (T337431)

Arbitration

• The arbitration cases named Scottywong and AlisonW closed 10 July and 16 July respectively.
• The SmallCat dispute arbitration case is in the workshop phase.

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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:54, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Civility Barnstar
	This is something which needs to be said, and you said it well. jp×g 22:32, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Thank you, kind sir! --Jayron32 10:45, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Generative AI and Misplaced Pages research

Hi Jayron32,

My name is Dr. Tim Koskie and I am a researcher at the Centre for Media Transition (CMT) at the University of Technology Sydney (UTS). We are conducting a study on the implications of content-generating AI systems such as ChatGPT for knowledge integrity on Misplaced Pages, and are approaching you because you have participated in discussions on this topic on Wikimedia pages.

If you are interested, we would like to invite you to participate in our study. It would involve joining either a focus group discussion or an interview (around 1 hour), in person at Wikimania in Singapore if you are going to be there, or online at a future date. At these sessions we would ask you questions about how you think generative AI will impact Misplaced Pages, as well as about the kinds of work you do on Misplaced Pages.

The project is funded by the Wikimedia Research Fund grant programme. You can find out more about the project here: https://meta.wikimedia.org/Research:Implications_of_ChatGPT_for_knowledge_integrity_on_Wikipedia If you are interested, let me know and I will forward you some more detailed information on the project. Tbkoskie (talk) 04:11, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the offer, but I'm not really interested. Good luck with your study though! --Jayron32 11:31, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the response, and we appreciate your contributions to the larger discussions. Tbkoskie (talk) 23:58, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

That is not entirely true

Hi, you once told me Reporting the results of such demographic data (religious affiliation) from censuses is entirely uncontroversial as far as I can tell. Let me tell you that is not entirely true. For instance, in 2008, Nigerian officials removed the religious affiliation question from the census questionnaire in response to violent social protests. The tension was that in this country believed to be nearly equally divided between Muslims and Christians, various constituencies felt that the census results would be biased and would show that one or the other religion predominated. Belson 303 (talk) 16:30, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Okay. --Jayron32 11:32, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks!

		The Reference Desk Barnstar
		Thank you for answering my dicerolling probability question on the Mathematics Reference Desk! --Aabicus (talk) 06:44, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

A user mentioned you on ANI

In case you weren't aware, a user mentioned you on ANI. Best --Rockstone 03:18, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up. Will monitor in case anyone says anything that needs my response. --Jayron32 11:13, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – September 2023

News and updates for administrators from the past month (August 2023).

Administrator changes Pppery Theleekycauldron Dwheeler G.A.S Royalbroil Ssd

CheckUser changes Bradv Oversighter changes Bradv

Guideline and policy news

• Following an RfC, TFAs will be automatically semi-protected the day before it is on the main page and through the day after.
• A discussion at WP:VPP about revision deletion and oversight for dead names found that ysops can choose to use revdel if, in their view, it's the right tool for this situation, and they need not default to oversight. But oversight could well be right where there's a particularly high risk to the person. Use your judgment.

Technical news

• Special:Contributions now shows the user's local edit count and the account's creation date. (T324166)

Arbitration

• The SmallCat dispute case has closed. As part of the final decision, editors participating in XfD have been reminded to be careful about forming local consensus which may or may not reflect the broader community consensus. Regular closers of XfD forums were also encouraged to note when broader community discussion, or changes to policies and guidelines, would be helpful.

Miscellaneous

• Tech tip: The "Browse history interactively" banner shown at the top of Special:Diff can be used to easily look through a history, assemble composite diffs, or find out what archive something wound up in.

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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 09:22, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

talk page access

I wrote up this response regarding the use of one's user talk page when blocked before you received a reply. Based on your subsequent response, I'm guessing my response covers guidance of which you are already aware. On the off-chance that it might be helpful, I'm posting it here, but feel free to ignore it.

Although there are many editors who hold the view that a blocked user should only use their talk page for an appeal, for better or worse, it doesn't have consensus support. At Misplaced Pages:Blocking policy § Standard block options, under "Prevent this user from editing their own talk page while blocked": ...editing of the user's talk page should be disabled only in cases of continued abuse of their user talk page, or when the user has engaged in serious threats, accusations, or attempts at outing that must be prevented from re-occurring. (This user talk page is one I remember in particular, where talk page access was removed but later restored to allow them to continue to make comments much as they had been doing.) It's a bit fuzzier for site-banned editors: Misplaced Pages:Banning policy § Further enforcement measures just states Indefinitely site-banned editors may be restricted from editing their user talk page or using email. Based solely on what I have come across (which is only a very few number of cases) and can recall, admins are typically tolerant of general discussion, but the line between that and disruption is murky. isaacl (talk) 18:19, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

I thank you for your additional information, but my comments were not made because of a lack of knowledge on my part. They were made because I am an asshole. No amount of additional education will fix that. It's just who I am. Ask around, you'll learn quickly once you get to know me better. --Jayron32 18:21, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

We're all assholes, sir! ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:42, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

Keep firing! --Jayron32 10:33, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

I don't have any particular argument with your comment, and even the last sentence regarding the purpose of allowing access isn't contradictory to practice; that is an important purpose. My apologies for covering known territory: I thought you were suggesting that some kind of corrective action take place and so brought up the relevant guidance for reference. ScottishFinnishRadish's analysis, though, addressed the specific situation and thus was more useful. isaacl (talk) 18:53, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

Sorry if my tone came across as harsh

After rereading what I said on El_C's talk page, I realized it could be read with far more vitriol than was intended. The tone I was reaching for was exasperated. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:40, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

Understood. I stepped into a situation I had no business being in, given my lack of proper investigation. I got what I deserved. --Jayron32 10:34, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

The Center Line: Fall 2023

Volume 10, Issue 1 • Fall 2023 • About the Newsletter

Features

• A New Future for Road Articles Online

Archives • Newsroom • Full Issue • Shortcut: WP:USRD/NEWS

—delivered by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of Imzadi 1979 → on 19:00, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – September 2023

News and updates for administrators from the past month (September 2023).

Administrator changes Hey man im josh Alex Bakharev CorbieVreccan Cyphoidbomb Davodd Hog Farm JamesR KnightLago Mark Ironie Nosebagbear (deceased) Rschen7754 Tamzin TonyBallioni

CheckUser changes DatGuy Ferret RickinBaltimore TonyBallioni Worm That Turned Oversighter changes RickinBaltimore TonyBallioni Worm That Turned

Guideline and policy news

• An RfC is open regarding amending the paid-contribution disclosure policy to add the following text: Any administrator soliciting clients for paid Misplaced Pages-related consulting or advising services not covered by other paid-contribution rules must disclose all clients on their userpage.

Technical news

• Administrators can now choose to add the user's user page to their watchlist when changing the usergroups for a user. This works both via Special:UserRights and via the API. (T272294)

Arbitration

• Remedy 9 ("MarioProtIV topic ban") of the WikiProject Tropical Cyclones case has been rescinded.

Miscellaneous

• The 2023 CheckUser and Oversight appointments process has concluded with the appointment of one new CheckUser.
• Self-nominations for the electoral commission for the 2023 Arbitration Committee elections opens on 2 October and closes on 8 October.

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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 14:41, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

RfC on the "Airlines and destinations" tables in airport articles

 You are invited to join the discussion at Misplaced Pages:Village pump (policy) § RfC on the "Airlines and destinations" tables in airport articles. I saw that you participated in a discussion on a similar topic. Sunnya343 (talk) 18:23, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

Hello!

Hi, Jayron32,

I was just thinking about you and noticed that you had recently gone inactive. I hope all is well and that you are just busy with off-Misplaced Pages life. I hope, in good time, you return to the project. Take care, Liz 19:03, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

The same happened to me, and I share Liz's hopes. Peace. ---Sluzzelin talk 00:45, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

I also just realized that I haven't seen you on the ref desks for a while. I hope all is well with you. --Viennese Waltz 07:16, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Just a note to say that I had a brief exchange with Jayron32 off-wiki. All is well, he has had some difficulties accessing his account but hopes to be back. --Viennese Waltz 14:38, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing the good news, VW! ---Sluzzelin talk 23:07, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Do you have time to talk about style in Misplaced Pages articles?

In the hope of finding a fellow Wikipedian who is interested in questions of style in Misplaced Pages articles, I had a look at the revision history of the article about one of my favorite books of all time, Pinker's Sense of Style. Your name stood out for some reason as promising, so I had a look at your talk page, which seemed welcoming. The fact that you have a lot of edits to your name seems to be a plus as well.

If you don't want to talk about this, or with me, I am totally okay with that. But if you do, let's talk.

I am especially interested right now in a rule of thumb for good writing (in English, and probably in most other languages give a choice between using a plural or a singular when make a general statement) that I came up with a few months or possibly a few years ago, and that has informed my editing at Misplaced Pages for at least several months.

Here it is:

Avoid the use of a plural whenever reasonably possible, and thus have greater clarity. I mainly have general statements in mind. Thus one would avoid the first sentence, and write instead the second or third, depending on what precisely your intended meaning was. 1. "When men and women get married they usually produce children." 2. "When a man and a woman get married they usually produce a child." 3. "When a man and a woman get married they usually produce children." Whether or not this is a good rule of thumb, I seem to be the only person to have said anything about this, so maybe I have come up with an original idea. About half a day of my best googlefu turned up nothing relevant. I even looked at every instance of the word "plural", using control F in the entire text of Pinker's awesome Sense of Style, and that of the Chicago Style Manual, and that Strunk and White's The Elements of Style.

I would appreciate it if you would take the time to share your thoughts about this with me. Polar Apposite (talk) 22:26, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

The fact that you are an administrator did not affect my decision to post on your talk page. I have no idea how it is relevant to that decision, though I expect it is relevant. Polar Apposite (talk) 22:30, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – November 2023

News and updates for administrators from the past month (October 2023).

Administrator changes

0xDeadbeef

Tamzin

Dennis Brown

Interface administrator changes

Pppery

• Ragesoss
• TheresNoTime

Guideline and policy news

Technical news

• The WMF is working on making it possible for administrators to edit MediaWiki configuration directly. This is similar to previous work on Special:EditGrowthConfig. A technical RfC is running until November 08, where you can provide feedback.
• There is a proposed plan for re-enabling the Graph Extension. Feedback on this proposal is requested.

Arbitration

• Eligible editors are invited to self-nominate themselves from 12 November 2023 until 21 November 2023 to stand in the 2023 Arbitration Committee elections.
• Xaosflux, RoySmith and Cyberpower678 have been appointed to the Electoral Commission for the 2023 Arbitration Committee Elections. BusterD is the reserve commissioner.
• Following a motion, the contentious topic designation of Prem Rawat has been struck. Actions previously taken using this contentious topic designation are still in force.
• Following several motions, multiple topic areas are no longer designated as a contentious topic. These contentious topic designations were from the Editor conduct in e-cigs articles, Liancourt Rocks, Longevity, Medicine, September 11 conspiracy theories, and Shakespeare authorship question cases.
• Following a motion, remedies 3.1 (All related articles under 1RR whenever the dispute over naming is concerned), 6 (Stalemate resolution) and 30 (Administrative supervision) of the Macedonia 2 case have been rescinded.
• Following a motion, remedy 6 (One-revert rule) of the The Troubles case has been amended.
• An arbitration case named Industrial agriculture has been opened. Evidence submissions in this case close 8 November.

Miscellaneous

• The Articles for Creation backlog drive is happening in November 2023, with 700+ drafts pending reviews for in the last 4 months or so. In addition to the AfC participants, all administrators and New Page Patrollers can conduct reviews using the helper script, Yet Another AFC Helper Script, which can be enabled in the Gadgets settings. Sign up here to participate!

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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:23, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

ArbCom 2023 Elections voter message

Hello! Voting in the 2023 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 11 December 2023. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Misplaced Pages arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2023 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{NoACEMM}} to your user talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:29, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for NFL playoffs

NFL playoffs has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 19:26, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – December 2023

News and updates for administrators from the past month (November 2023).

Administrator changes

• Ganesha811
• JPxG

• Ajpolino
• Lourdes
• Mairi
• RockMFR
• Somno
• WilyD

Beeblebrox → Just Step Sideways

CheckUser changes

• Beeblebrox
• Opabinia regalis

Oversight changes

• Beeblebrox
• Opabinia regalis

Guideline and policy news

• Following a talk page discussion, the Administrators' accountability policy has been updated to note that while it is considered best practice for administrators to have notifications (pings) enabled, this is not mandatory. Administrators who do not use notifications are now strongly encouraged to indicate this on their user page.

Arbitration

• Following a motion, the Extended Confirmed Restriction has been amended, removing the allowance for non-extended-confirmed editors to post constructive comments on the "Talk:" namespace. Now, non-extended-confirmed editors may use the "Talk:" namespace solely to make edit requests related to articles within the topic area, provided that their actions are not disruptive.
• The Arbitration Committee has announced a call for Checkusers and Oversighters, stating that it will currently be accepting applications for CheckUser and/or Oversight permissions at any point in the year.
• Eligible users are invited to vote on candidates for the Arbitration Committee until 23:59 December 11, 2023 (UTC). Candidate statements can be seen here.

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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:54, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Barnstar

Misplaced Pages:Article Rescue Squadron. Thanks for your work on drafts! Ikipedia2 (talk) 13:25, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Precious anniversary

Precious

Six years!

Silent Night. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:47, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

That's a nice date for a precious anniversary, Gerda, and I hope you all slide well, into the New Year! (yes, I know it has nothing to do with rutschen; I still wish everyone a better 2024 than 2023, and you're missed, Jayron) ---Sluzzelin talk 02:34, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

Happy Adminship Anniversary!

Happy adminship anniversary! Hi Jayron32! On behalf of the Birthday Committee, I'd like to wish you a very happy anniversary of your successful request for adminship. Enjoy this special day! The Herald (Benison) (talk) 02:35, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Wolleh magritte.jpg

Thanks for uploading File:Wolleh magritte.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Misplaced Pages under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Misplaced Pages. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Misplaced Pages (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 04:06, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

Hope you're well

It's been a bit over 5 month since your last edit so I checked your xtools and noticed you've only gone two separate months without editing since 2007. Hope you're doing well and that you're away for all the best reasons! Hey man im josh (talk) 23:47, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

He's active elsewhere on the internet so he's certainly well. Last time I spoke to him he told me that the reason why he stopped editing Misplaced Pages was that he was having trouble accessing his account, but that was several months ago, so maybe he's stepped away for other reasons. --Viennese Waltz 11:48, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

I do hope you're right and that that's the case @Viennese Waltz. If so, hopefully he can reach out and get some assistance with regaining access to his account. I know myself and others definitely miss them! Hey man im josh (talk) 11:51, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

I've been missing Jayron's cheery presence, too, and trust all is well in his world. -- Jack of Oz 19:50, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Edelman Family Foundation

Hello @Jayron32

I am reaching out to you because of your previous participation in one of the discussions regarding the reliability and neutrality of HuffPost/Pink News/ProPublica as sources used on Misplaced Pages.

Currently, there is an ongoing issue with the Edelman Family Foundation section in the Joseph Edelman Misplaced Pages article. The section appears to be biased and lacks a balanced representation of the foundation's activities, as it primarily focuses on a single controversial donation while neglecting to mention the organization's numerous other significant contributions to various causes.

I would like to invite you to participate in the discussion on the BLP Noticeboard to address the concerns surrounding the section's neutrality and explore ways to improve its content. Llama Tierna (talk) 18:09, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Henry Every

Hi @Jayron32 Are you able to add the attached article that appeared in The Guardian on 31 March 2024 about Henry Avery to Henry Every Misplaced Pages page. The URL is attached: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/30/explorers-unlock-the-mystery-of-pirate-king-henry-avery-who-vanished-after-huge-heist-at-sea Highvoltage113 (talk) 00:39, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

June 2024

You are involved in a recently filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Anachronist and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. As threaded discussion is not permitted on most arbitration pages, please ensure that you make all comments in your own section only. Additionally, the guide to arbitration and the Arbitration Committee's procedures may be of use.

Thanks, — Kaalakaa 06:57, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Anachronist case request declined

The Anachronist case request has been declined. For the Arbitration Committee, HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 21:38, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Gettysburg Cyclorama

Gettysburg Cyclorama has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 19:04, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

Hello!

Hi, Jayron32,

I was just noticing that you haven't edited since last September, you are getting close to "inactive" status of 12 months. I'd hate if we lost you as an administrator as I've been looking at some old ANI pages and I really admire the way you closed what seemed like long, drawn out, unwieldy discussions on that noticeboard. We could really use you back if you have the time and inclination.

I understand about taking a WikiBreak, I stopped editing from 2016-2018 when I moved cross-country and had some health issues. I hope your off-wiki life is going well and I look forward to seeing your return should you wish to come back into the trenches. Liz 02:26, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

I'd like to say the same thing! I've always really enjoyed reading your contributions. Blythwood (talk) 18:37, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Pending suspension of administrative permissions due to inactivity

Established policy provides for removal of the administrative permissions of users who have not made any edits or logged actions in the preceding twelve months. Because you have been inactive, your administrative permissions will be removed if you do not return to activity within the next month.

Inactive administrators are encouraged to rejoin the project in earnest rather than to make token edits to avoid loss of administrative permissions. Resources and support for reengaging with the project are available at Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Editor Retention/administrators. If you do not intend to rejoin the project in the foreseeable future, please consider voluntarily resigning your administrative permissions by making a request at the bureaucrats' noticeboard.

Thank you for your past contributions to the project. — JJMC89 bot 00:27, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Hope you've been well and that you're away for positive reasons Jayron, we miss you! Hey man im josh (talk) 14:45, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

Imminent suspension of administrative permissions due to inactivity

Established policy provides for removal of the administrative permissions of users who have not made any edits or logged actions in the preceding twelve months. Because you have been inactive, your administrative permissions will be removed if you do not return to activity within the next several days.

Inactive administrators are encouraged to rejoin the project in earnest rather than to make token edits to avoid loss of administrative permissions. Resources and support for reengaging with the project are available at Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Editor Retention/administrators. If you do not intend to rejoin the project in the foreseeable future, please consider voluntarily resigning your administrative permissions by making a request at the bureaucrats' noticeboard.

Thank you for your past contributions to the project. — JJMC89 bot 00:07, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Weezer Africa Album Cover.jpeg

Thanks for uploading File:Weezer Africa Album Cover.jpeg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Misplaced Pages under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Misplaced Pages. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Misplaced Pages (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 18:13, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Suspension of administrative permissions due to inactivity

Established policy provides for removal of the administrative permissions of users who have not made any edits or logged actions in the preceding twelve months. Because you have been inactive, your administrative permissions have been removed.

Subject to certain time limits and other restrictions, your administrative permissions may be returned upon request at WP:BN.

Thank you for your past contributions to the project. — xaosflux 14:07, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

I hope you are well. There was a time in Wiki when friends used to comment when some long term contributor became inactive. Nobody posted any comments for Jayron. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2409:40e1:c7:bdf0:68f6:d506:7fdd:21f9 (talk) 14:12, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

What's this and this, then? --Viennese Waltz 19:08, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Notice of a discussion I think you'd be interested in knowing about

Hey Jay, I thought you might want to be aware of this discussion|this discussion (which includes not just the linked to thread, but a much larger one further above on VP/WMF). In summary, it appears that the WMF is prepared to imminently disclose personally identifying information about volunteers in a controversial Indian court case, where a news agency is attempting to suppress Misplaced Pages's tertiary coverage of the content secondary sources (which it considers unflattering) by going after Misplaced Pages and a number of its individual editors as defendants. In order to comply with court orders in the case, it seems the WMF is prepared to share this information in what a number of us consider a pretty seismically bad idea and betrayal of community priorities and values (the WMF has also already used an office action to remove an article reporting on the case, at the direction of the court for what said court regards as legitimate sub judice reasons).

While the deletion of the article has been framed by the WMF as temporary step to preserve appeal on the overall case, and there are mixed feelings in the community response as to that so far, there is a much more uniform opposition to throwing the individual editors (at least one of whom is located in India and has profound apprehension about what this could mean for his life with regard to litigation and beyond) under the bus. And yet the WMF appears to be prepared to share the information in question, as soon as Nov. 8. Can I impose upon you to take a look at the matter and share your perspective? SnowRise 00:26, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

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