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== "while winning the popular vote" ==

Just for the record, in case it comes up again – there's been a bit of back and forth in a sentence in the lead in the last few days:
* {{u|Keeper of Albion}} ] "despite winning the popular vote" to "while winning the popular vote". Edit comment: ''There’s nothing ‘despite’ about it.''
* I ] it back to "despite". Edit comment: ''"despite" is clearer, especially for readers who may not know the details of the US presidential election system. It's been "despite" for years. Let's keep it that way.''
* KoA ] it back to "while". Edit comment: ''It reads as though the page is arguing that she should have been elected because she won the popular vote. "Despite" was removed from the lede section of the Donald Trump article this year in much the same way. She lost perfectly legitimately. There’s nothing "despite" about it.''

I then looked at the ] talk archives and found the discussions ] (June 2024) and ] (June 2023).

Many editors think "despite" simply expresses the fact that the result may be unexpected, especially for readers who are not familiar with the US electoral college. Many others think "despite" expresses some kind of illegitimacy and "while" is more neutral. In the end, a majority seemed to prefer "while". It's also been changed from "despite" to "while" in ] and ].

I think both iterpretations of "despite" are reasonable, but I'm not terribly opposed to "while". And in the interest of consistency and (as some argue) neutrality, I think we should now stick with "while" until a new consensus emerges. That's all for now. :-) — ] (]) 22:40, 31 October 2024 (UTC)


== Photo for infobox == == Photo for infobox ==
Line 247: Line 235:
:would work well. :would work well.
:I think the first or third image would work best, with a lean towards the third one in my own personal preference. ] (]) 02:11, 7 November 2024 (UTC) :I think the first or third image would work best, with a lean towards the third one in my own personal preference. ] (]) 02:11, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
::I made a crop of the third image you proposed (])
::I think it's better than the first image you gave as her smile seems slightly more natural than her smile in the first image. Of course, they are ultimately very similar images so it doesn't matter that much in the long run.
::I just hope we can update the lead image ASAP.
::Also, should the current lead image (Clinton in 2016) be moved down the article in the section about her 2016 presidential campaign? It seems it would fit. ] 19:47, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
:::Yes; it would probably be best to move that lead image down there.
:::Activity on this article is very slow. Technically, it's consensus now that the image needs to be changed, but only a few people have voted. Somebody should bring this to other people's attentions. ] (]) 01:21, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
:I really like your first suggestion for the infobox. ] (]) 08:37, 15 November 2024 (UTC) :I really like your first suggestion for the infobox. ] (]) 08:37, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
:'''Support''' It is about time the lead image is changed. Either of them can work but @]'s suggestions are good too. ] 21:05, 20 November 2024 (UTC) :'''Support''' It is about time the lead image is changed. Either of them can work but @]'s suggestions are good too. ] 21:05, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
:That SMILE! Eughh! The old one is good ] (]) 15:22, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 01:21, 4 December 2024

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Section sizes
Section size for Hillary Clinton (52 sections)
Section name Byte
count		 Section
total
(Top) 7,749 7,749
Early life and education 29 28,372
Early life 9,854 9,854
Wellesley College years 9,987 9,987
Yale Law School and postgraduate studies 8,502 8,502
Marriage, family, legal career and first ladyship of Arkansas 213 30,785
From the East Coast to Arkansas 2,258 2,258
Early Arkansas years 8,159 8,159
Later Arkansas years 13,878 13,878
Bill Clinton 1992 presidential campaign 6,277 6,277
First Lady of the United States (1993–2001) 3,566 32,496
Health care and other policy initiatives 6,145 6,145
International diplomacy and promotion of women's rights 4,465 4,465
Scandals and investigations 6,762 6,762
It Takes a Village and other writings 5,256 5,256
Response to Lewinsky scandal 3,403 3,403
Save America's Treasures initiative 702 702
Traditional duties 2,197 2,197
U.S. Senate (2001–2009) 76 31,753
2000 U.S. Senate election 4,274 4,274
First term 16,982 16,982
2006 reelection campaign 3,201 3,201
Second term 7,220 7,220
2008 presidential campaign 17,255 17,255
Secretary of State (2009–2013) 689 60,595
Nomination and confirmation 5,604 5,604
Tenure 28,583 39,683
Overall themes 11,100 11,100
Benghazi attack and subsequent hearings 14,619 14,619
Email controversy 15,075 15,075
Clinton Foundation, Hard Choices, and speeches 7,180 7,180
2016 presidential campaign 21,602 21,602
Post–2016 election activities 15,768 15,768
Political positions 4,590 18,769
Economics 970 970
Domestic policy 3,281 3,281
LGBT rights 2,429 2,429
Immigration 2,328 2,328
Foreign policy 5,171 5,171
Religious views 1,256 1,256
Cultural and political image 11,157 11,157
Books 1,592 1,592
Ancestry 1,779 1,779
See also 248 248
Notes 24 24
References 15 4,785
Citations 34 34
Works cited 4,736 4,736
External links 108 8,536
Official 678 678
Media coverage 125 125
Other 7,625 7,625
Total 316,776 316,776

Photo for infobox

Should we update to any of the pics from the 2020s? The one from 2016 is... from 2016. That, and if you look at List of first ladies of the United States, there is another photo of Clinton being used.

Incumbent photo: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/Hillary_Clinton_by_Gage_Skidmore_4_%28cropped%29.jpg

Suggestions:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/Former_United_States_Secretary_of_State_Hillary_Rodham_Clinton_at_the_U.S._Department_of_State_on_September_26%2C_2023_in_Washington%2C_D.C._14_%28cropped%29.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e6/Hillary_Clinton_53663388489_o_%281%29.jpg DougheGojiraMan (talk) 04:39, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

It depends on how recent you want to go. It's better to focus on a strong, high quality image with Clinton as the focus though, I think.
I also propose the first image:
File:Former United States Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton at the U.S. Department of State on September 26, 2023 in Washington, D.C. 14 (cropped).jpg
But I also believe that crops of:
File:Official Portrait of Former Secretary Clinton Unveiled at the U.S. Department of State on September 26, 2023 in Washington, D.C. 22.jpg
&
File:Official Portrait of Former Secretary Clinton Unveiled at the U.S. Department of State on September 26, 2023 in Washington, D.C. 21.jpg
would work well.
I think the first or third image would work best, with a lean towards the third one in my own personal preference. TheodoresTomfooleries (talk) 02:11, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
I made a crop of the third image you proposed (File:Official Portrait of Former Secretary Clinton Unveiled at the U.S. Department of State on September 26, 2023 in Washington, D.C. 21 - Crop.jpg)
I think it's better than the first image you gave as her smile seems slightly more natural than her smile in the first image. Of course, they are ultimately very similar images so it doesn't matter that much in the long run.
I just hope we can update the lead image ASAP.
Also, should the current lead image (Clinton in 2016) be moved down the article in the section about her 2016 presidential campaign? It seems it would fit. 𝔅𝔦𝔰-𝔖𝔢𝔯𝔧𝔢𝔱𝔞? 19:47, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
Yes; it would probably be best to move that lead image down there.
Activity on this article is very slow. Technically, it's consensus now that the image needs to be changed, but only a few people have voted. Somebody should bring this to other people's attentions. TheodoresTomfooleries (talk) 01:21, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
I really like your first suggestion for the infobox. 3df (talk) 08:37, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
Support It is about time the lead image is changed. Either of them can work but @3df's suggestions are good too. 𝔅𝔦𝔰-𝔖𝔢𝔯𝔧𝔢𝔱𝔞? 21:05, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
That SMILE! Eughh! The old one is good 68.57.163.100 (talk) 15:22, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
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