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Revision as of 23:39, 24 October 2016 editJeeprs (talk | contribs)63 edits →Three Turnings and Vajrayana← Previous edit Latest revision as of 12:51, 6 December 2024 edit undoLowercase sigmabot III (talk | contribs)Bots, Template editors2,296,243 editsm Archiving 1 discussion(s) to Talk:Vajrayana/Archive 1) (bot 
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== Three Turnings and Vajrayana == == Origins of Vajrayana ==


This wikipedia page is basically affirming Vajrayana was born out of Hinduism. I think the page should gives rise to the possibility that it was taught by the historical Buddha. Both perspectives are taught widely and both can be stated on this page without it being a huge scandal. At the same time, I don't want to do this alone and I don't want to put work into this and then discover wikipedia editors simply want to keep the page as it is.
This article says that 'Vajrayana can also be seen as the third of the three "turnings of the wheel of dharma" '. However, that is not a traditional interpretation, which is that the 'third turning' was the delivery of the Yogācāra sutras. I think this interpretation is uniquely Tibetan. There's another Misplaced Pages article, namely http://www.wikiwand.com/en/Three_Turnings_of_the_Wheel_of_Dharma, so I propose a minor edit to the text of this article, and a 'see also' link to the second article. I will do that edit, posting here first to see if there are objections or comments. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 23:53, 23 October 2016 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:Wikiwand is not affiliated with Misplaced Pages, any articles there are not Misplaced Pages articles.
:Wikiwand is not regarded as ].
:Wikiwand ] on more than one point.
:If they cite a ] for their claims, we could examine that source and then cite that for changes to this article. Otherwise, Wikiwand is of no use to or on this site. ] (]) 23:59, 23 October 2016 (UTC)


There are many good resources including books from Reggie Ray that would be good secondary sources.
I hadn't realised that. I thought Wikiwand was a skin for wikipedia. Anyway I have now disabled it, but the issue above still stands, I intend to edit the article. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 21:03, 24 October 2016 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


Anyone else interested in this project, or just leave it alone?
Alright, this text was deleted by me:


All best wishes,
===Third turning of the wheel===
Vajrayana can also be seen as the third of the three "turnings of the wheel of dharma":{{sfn|Kitagawa|2002|p=80}}
# In the first turning ] Buddha taught the ] at ] in the 5th century BCE, which led to the founding of Buddhism and the later ]. Details of the first turning are described in the '']''. The oldest scriptures do not mention any further turnings other than this first turning.
# The Mahayana tradition claims that there was a second turning in which the ''] sutras'' were taught at ], which led to the ] schools. Generally, scholars conclude that the Mahayana scriptures (including the ''Perfection of Wisdom Sutras'') were composed from the 1st century CE onwards.{{refn|group=lower-alpha|''Large numbers of Mahayana sutras were being composed in the period between the beginning of the common era and the fifth century''.{{sfn|Buswell|2004|p=494}}}}
# According to the Vajrayana tradition, there was a third turning which took place at ] sixteen years after the Buddha's enlightenment. Some scholars have strongly denied that Vajrayana appeared at that time,{{sfn|Kitagawa|2002|p=80}} and placed it at a much later time. The first tantric (Vajrayana Buddhist) texts appeared in the 3rd century CE, and they continued to appear until the 12th century.{{sfn|Williams|2000|p=194}}


] (]) 16:23, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
REASON: there are no sources that describe Vajrayana as 'the third turning of the Wheel of dharma'. It is a falsehood. See the Wikiepedia entry Three_Turnings_of_the_Wheel_of_Dharma for the correct account of that subject. Also, the whole article on Vajrayana contains other dubious assertions and glosses which need expert attention.

Latest revision as of 12:51, 6 December 2024

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Archive

The difference between Nirvana and Buddha hood.

Nirvana is a Sanskrit word as you well know, but did you know it consists of tree words, Nir Vad Djna, literally this mean “Without wrong thought”, at least this is what my teacher Chhimed Rigdzin Rinpoche taught me. To reach Nirvana is to come to the end of ones preconceived ideas, to the place where the world is new at every moment.

Buddha hood is to gain the state of a Buddha, to be a Buddha is to gain throughout ages an accumulation of merits or positive accumulated fearlessness to deal with the parts of life that beings do not like to deal with and witch make up what is commonly known as the subconscious. Having gained a storage of “good merit” one will have the connection to a whole world of sentient beings, through ones work, and so will start at a proper time a new world cycle of Buddhist teachings.

To become a Buddha and to attain Nirvana is one and the same, there is no difference between the two, in actual experience. To reach Nirvana is like becoming truly sane. And to become a Buddha is to become the King of Fearlessness.

Nirvana you may gain for you self anytime but becoming a Buddha is another matter. --Mitrapa 16:32, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)Mitrapa.

Different teachers give different etymologies for the word "nirvana". The most common is as follows: "nir" is the prefix meaning "to cease" or "to stop"; "vaana" means "blowing": thus "extinguished" or "blown out" would be the literal translation. - --Bodhirakshita 03:53, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)

where to put this?

don't know yet.

Deity practice

I removed the following, misleading fragment from the article:

"Deity Tantra is often practiced at the moment directly prior to sexual climax. The practitioner takes a consort and this is practiced in pairs. Often times the couple pictures themselves as the deities in the mandala making love."

It gives the impression that tantric buddhist deity practices are predominantly done in a "sexual" setting. In reality however, these deity practices are just meditation practices - with no consort involved. In anuttarayogatantra, the deities often do have consorts, but anuttarayogatantra is not relevant to most tantric practitioners.

Notes

Origins of Vajrayana

This wikipedia page is basically affirming Vajrayana was born out of Hinduism. I think the page should gives rise to the possibility that it was taught by the historical Buddha. Both perspectives are taught widely and both can be stated on this page without it being a huge scandal. At the same time, I don't want to do this alone and I don't want to put work into this and then discover wikipedia editors simply want to keep the page as it is.

There are many good resources including books from Reggie Ray that would be good secondary sources.

Anyone else interested in this project, or just leave it alone?

All best wishes,

Badabara (talk) 16:23, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

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